Vinh Giang
Appearances
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
The big one, people keep interrupting me. not only do they not listen to my ideas, they interrupt me, and then my turn is gone now. And the idea that I was gonna share was one that was going to be able to change the course of the meeting, but because they interrupted me, Now I'm invisible and that keeps happening to me. And then when they ask me, they go, why do other people interrupt me?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Why does it happen? The reason is something that I don't think you'd expect because it comes down to vocal presence and physical presence. And when I see them in the situations where people interrupt them, the reason is because their vocal presence is low and their physical presence is low. So for example, everyone's sitting around a meeting table and again, I go, look, send me an example.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Where you're doing a big Zoom meeting and you're allowed to send it to me. Let me see what's happening. And when you see it, everyone's sitting down. And the way she would bring up the question, it was a woman who asked me this. And I remember the way she'd ask it is very low volume. So, look, I've just got a quick idea I would love to share with you all. Very small body language.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And if I was talking to you like this right now, it is so easy for you to interrupt this version of me. So easy. Okay. Whereas imagine instead I said, take control of this, stand, stand. And they go, oh, I feel a little bit weird. We'll just prime the reason. Just go, look, I've been sitting all day. Do you mind if I stand for my part of the presentation? Oh, great. All right. Then you just stand.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
If you stand now, all of a sudden you're in a position of more authority. And if you use larger body language, stronger volume, the version of me right now, this version is infinitely more difficult for you to interrupt. Absolutely. It's infinitely more difficult because you've got more authority. You've got more credibility, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
But again, because a lot of people in those situations fall victim to a lower default volume, a slower default rate of speech, smaller body language, and then all of a sudden people interrupt them.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So I say, I often say to my students, the reason people interrupt you is because you're easy to interrupt. Create a bit of that friction. right? Create a little bit of that authority. And then again, they try it. It feels a little bit, again, they say fake and phony, but I'm like, reframe it, reframe it. It's just unfamiliar. And then they start to do it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
They go, oh, it felt really unfamiliar then. But the moment they do it, they go, wow. Just from standing alone, I felt like I stood. I just had a bit of volume. I didn't even use my body language, but already people are not interrupting me. So again, it just goes to show that how you use your instrument and your voice lets other people know how they can treat you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Well, there definitely is a difference, obviously. I asked my vocal teacher the same thing. I said, what's the difference between an introvert and extrovert? And she goes, the key thing is just how they get energy. are you introverted or are you extroverted? I mean, I know I'm very extroverted. I get energy from being around people.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
But she goes, introverts, they lose energy once they're around people. So she goes, look, that's the key difference. Now, let me ask you a question. A pianist, if they're an extrovert, Would they play differently to an introvert? I had to think about that for a while because I thought, surely this is a trick question. And I said, yes. And she goes, no, you're an idiot. There's no difference.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You will not be able to tell who is an introvert and who is an extrovert if you listen to a pianist. Great music is great music. Your voice is an instrument. Great music is great music. She goes, the only difference is introverts have to be highly strategic with when they play their instrument. Extroverts can play their instrument all day.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's more difficult for an introvert because you have to be highly selective when you play your instrument. It's an excuse that I think some of my friends who are introverted used to give and where they say, because I'm introvert, I'm not going to play my instrument well at all. And it's like, no, no, no. You still have energy. You just have to use it much more strategically.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And you have to be highly aware of how you can rejuvenate that energy.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You have to be very conscious. It's harder for introverts. It is harder for introverts to acknowledge that. However, if you've got great ways to better rejuvenate your energy and you have good menu items, like good things you can go and snack on and recreate some of that energy and rejuvenate. then you still have to learn how to play your instrument well.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Otherwise you will become that person that, and again, the majority of my students are the person you described. It's the, I'm way smarter than John. I'm way smarter than Sarah, but why did they get the promotion? Why didn't I get it?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Well, it's because if you are technically 10 out of 10, but your communication skills are a three out of 10, do you think your organization perceives you to be a 10 out of 10 or a three out of 10? You are only as good as you can communicate. So as you improve your communication skills, you start to shine your light more brightly in the world.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Whereas a lot of my students tend to think, oh, but it's my boss's responsibility to see the brilliance in me. No, no, it's not. It's your responsibility to shine brightly. not their responsibility. So when you take it upon yourself, things change.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
you take a deep breath and then continue speaking the reason people aren't comfortable with the pause is because they don't know what the pause is for right the pause allows people to process what you're saying think about it now listeners as you're listening to that the moment i paused you had a moment to process the things that i was saying do you want to be more charismatic communication there are two fundamental areas didn't that just seem really important
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
First thing is you have to learn how to protect your energy. For example, yesterday I was doing a couple of different podcasts while I'm here in LA and I didn't leave the hotel room. The podcast wasn't until four. I didn't leave the hotel room at all to the point where my videographer freaked out and just knocked on my door and said, are you okay? Are you still all right? Are you all right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I'm like, yeah, I'm conserving my energy. I'm a fairly high energy person, so I have to conserve my energy. So all morning is, again, I didn't talk to anyone this morning. I had to wait to talk to you because- If you don't conserve your energy and you just give it all the time everywhere, then you won't have any. So that's number one. Got to conserve your energy, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then the second thing is have go-to, I call them menu items. Have some menu items that you can quickly reach for. So one that I love is Wim Hof, the breathing technique, right? The guided bubble breath. Two cycles of that before a meeting. My brain is oxygenated. My body feels good. I feel like I just feel revitalized.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So if people don't know, YouTube it. But it's 30 deep breaths in and out. So 30 of that. And then after that, at the end of the 30th one, you breathe out and then hold your breath. And you'll be shocked how long you can hold your breath for. You'll be shocked. The first time I did this, I couldn't believe I could hold it for a minute and a half, two minutes. I thought I was going to die.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I was so bad at interactions with human beings. There was just a period of my life where I didn't understand what anybody was saying to me.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I thought I was dying. And then at the end of you holding your breath for a minute or so, as long as you can, after that, just take a deep breath in, hold for 15 seconds and release. And that breathing technique alone has... energized me even when I am doing Zoom calls at 3 a.m. in the morning because I work with some US clients. It just gets me three cycles of that, two cycles of that.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Incredible. I was not a believer in that at all when I first learned. I was like, yeah, surely that's not going to work. What, breathing? I do that every day. Changed my life.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
My go-to technique to energize myself. The next one to me is a snack, something healthy. I love blueberries, raspberries with a little bit of cream. Oh man, a light meal. I love it. Right. And then favorite beverage. My go-to is coffee. I don't know. That's, I feel like some people are going to tell me it's going to kill me, but I love it. So have your own go-to. Yeah. Right.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Have your own routine. A routine. Yeah. I have a playlist of videos that crack me up. I don't know. Have you seen videos that made you laugh? Yeah, absolutely. Save them. Yeah. Save them because they're patent rights. Put you in a great mood, yeah. Put you in a great mood. One last one for me is, again, I've just got so many things out of my menu item. No, I love it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I also love orchestral war music. Okay, so like Hans Zimmer-esque. Yes, I love Hans Zimmer, yeah. And if you're listening to Interstellar, Hans Zimmer, while you're doing Wim Hof, as you take a sip of coffee, Oh, man.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah, give that a go. I'm going to give that a go. That's awesome. It's an intoxicating mix.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Please don't be.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Being a confident communicator, that's just another series of behaviors that you can practice. So when people say, oh, I'm shy, I always say to them, oh, that's because you've been practicing the shy behaviors for the last 15, 20, 30, 40 years.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And what you just said made me think the importance of finding what works for you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I feel like people have this misunderstanding that I should just have this energy naturally. Yes. Back to your original question, right? I should just have it naturally. And if I don't have it naturally, there's something wrong with me. It's like, no, you had to not eat for eight hours to get yourself into the right state.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I think that fasted state helps us think more sharp and helps us be more on point, right? And it takes work to show up with energy, intention, and purpose. Whereas I think people have this illusion in their minds that, oh, it should be easy. Yeah. Or we think we're weak. Yeah. Or there's something wrong. It's like, no, no, no, no. There's a craft to it. Like even preparing for a Zoom call.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Some people go, oh, is that a bit much? But that's how you show up three Zoom calls back to back. Structure it with 15 minutes in between. You have to reset.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
even for me, it's doing these podcasts, traveling overseas, I'm exhausted. But then again, if I choose to give this energy, I need to conserve it. I need to have ways to rejuvenate it. And I have to go through the process and you have to commit to the craft. You have to commit to that discipline.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Whereas if you one night did eat at 6pm, well, then that show wouldn't be as great, but you were dedicated. And I think that That is what people have to really understand is there are ways to do it, but you've got to take yourself through the process.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's not just listening. It's when you look at yourself on video too. And there's a reason for that. The reason we hate the sound of our voice is because when we hear ourselves on a recording, that's not how we sound to ourselves. The way you sound to yourself, you have a deep, rich, Barry White voice, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And the reason you have a different sounding voice to yourself is when you're speaking, the vibrations go through your bones and your muscles, and then it hits your ears. The vibrations of the sound is going through a more dense medium, which creates a lower pitch sound. So when you hear yourself via an audio replay, that's going through the airwaves. So your voice sounds thinner and higher pitch.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So you immediately go, no, no, no. I don't sound like that. I sound like this. I don't sound like this. And they freak out. So that difference in the medium in which you're receiving the sound causes people immediately to reject because it actually does sound different. The reason why people are looking at those on the video is because it's flipped the other way.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And they go, oh, I don't look like that. Because you look at yourself in the mirror every day. Whereas on camera, it shows the way other people see you. Whereas when you look at yourself in the mirror, it's flipped. So your entire life, you've seen yourself a certain way, right? Unless your face is perfectly symmetrical, right? Then you go, oh no, I don't look like that.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So immediately people go, I look weird. I sound weird. So the thing you need to do there is desensitize it, mate. Just listen to yourself over and over. Like, do you listen to a podcast now and do you still freak out about your voice?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Not anymore, right? Because you're desensitized. So what happens is a calibration happens. What you hear in your head and what you hear on an audio replay, the calibration starts to just do this. And then gradually you can't hear the difference anymore. And then when you look at yourself on camera and also in the mirror, the calibration starts to happen. You go, oh, that's me. Oh, that's just me.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's painful. But if you go through that, you get over it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Such a beautiful insight that you shared there. The reason it was easier for you at 11 is because you are new to a lot of these behaviors. Completely. The behaviors haven't been ingrained in you yet. Whereas when you're 40 now, I'm 38. I'm 37, so yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So once you're 40 and you realize this, you've done 40 years of repeating one behavior, two behaviors, a series of behaviors over and over and over and over again. That's why it becomes harder, right? And all of a sudden it becomes way more difficult because now you have to unlearn something that you've been repeating for that long. So I think that's really difficult there.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
One other point I wanted to mention what you said there too is that you said you went through years of discomfort. A lot of people have this idea that, again, it should just be a quick process, right? And if I'm struggling for a period, then something's not right. It's like, no, no, no, no struggle. That's good. That it means you're in the process of change, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You're going through the process of change and you have to be willing to put in that effort, go through the struggle. And I think the thing that people are resistant to is failing because I believe, and I want to ask you this question. Did you learn more from your successes in those situations, in those public speaking exams, or did you learn more from your failures? Failures.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
People don't want to fail now. I don't want to make a video, put it out on Instagram where I've made a fool out of myself, but that's how we learn, right? I don't want to do a speech where I forget what I'm going to say, but that's how you learn. You have it happen. Then you go back and you go, okay, why did I forget? Oh, it wasn't well rehearsed, right? Why did I forget?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I didn't know how to deal with my nerves. Now you need to learn how to rehearse. Now you need to learn how to manage your nerves. So all of a sudden, if you don't fail, you don't know where your weakness is and then you don't know what to work on. So you've got to pay the price. I think you've got to pay the price. Back to your original question.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah, it's just so important because I think people just now are resistant to failing. Yet we learn far more from our failures than we do from our successes.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So for the person who's 40. Oh my God, Vin, how do I now? What do I do? Am I doomed? No, no, you're not. It's just when Jay was 11, he was able to work on three or four different behaviors at the same time because you're so elastic, right? There's so many things that could change about you when you're at that age.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
But when you're less elastic in your older years, you just now have to focus on one thing at a time. So I've coached a few CEOs of some pretty big companies here in the US. And it's so funny because when I map out there, I used to, I don't do it anymore.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
But when I did it and I mapped out their coaching program and I showed it to them, they got upset because they're like, wait, you're making me work on my volume for four weeks and that's all we're doing? This feels stupid. And in those moments, I just had the courage to go, well, look, then pick somebody else. It's okay. Get a refund. Pick somebody else.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Because I kind of said to them, you're 50 and you've been speaking with a very default quiet volume for 50 years. Do you expect to be able to change that in 48 hours? Because I get them to send me a video every day, right? And every time they send me a video, I go, watch what you're doing for the first seven days.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Even though you know we're working on volume, your default volume is like a 4 out of 10. And that's when they go, oh, far out. I keep defaulting back to it. So the older you are, you've got to realize one thing at a time. One thing at a time. But it drives people crazy. I want to do seven things. I want to do hand gestures. I want to learn how to storytell. I want to use volume.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I want to add pitch and melody. I want to do all of it. But that's also what leads to no change. That's why most people never change the way they sound because they're not willing to sit and be patient and do one thing at a time.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Thanks so much, man. It's kind of surreal sitting on your set.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You just made me think of something when you said driving as well. I mean, when you think back to the four stages of learning we talked about before, and you talk about unconscious competence... To give people a sense of what's possible once you really go down the path of mastery of communication skills, think of an area in your life where you have achieved unconscious competence. It's driving.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Whether we're good or not, that's another thing, right? But most people, I would dare say sometimes too, you're kind of unconscious when you're driving because you're so good at it. You've done it every single day of your adult life. So you've gotten to a point where you are unconsciously competent, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then people always ask me now, they go, oh, Vin, when you communicate now, are you thinking about gesturing? Are you thinking about storytelling? Are you thinking about... I go, no, I don't. Because like with the car... When you think you want to go to the grocery store, do you have any thought now into, oh, I need to open the door. Oh, I need to check my blind spot.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Oh, I need to adjust my, no, it's all automatic. So the reason why I try to inspire my students to improve their communication skills, because I say to them, that means in the very next conversation you have with a client, a customer, a family member, you can just think, I want this outcome. I want to be able to help them in this way. Your skills and abilities will just take you there.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And that's why you come across in these podcasts and the professional people who do this, it's so natural. And when people are sitting there going, I want to be that natural, but it requires a dedication to mastery.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I always feel like the thing we end up doing in life tends to be something that had a massive impact on us when we were younger. I don't know if you find the same to be true. But for me, Manjay, when I was young, I was such a bad communicator. I was so bad at interactions with human beings. And the reason for that is because English is my third language.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It depends on your level of desire. What have you seen? I've seen unbelievable change within six months. And this is someone who has become problem aware that this thing has been destroying my relationships, destroying my career growth. And when that pain becomes that great and you become problem aware, I can't believe how quickly some of my students have been able to change.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then I've seen it take as long as three or four years. That's still great though. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Where I'll get an email three to four years later and they go, I can't believe it's taken me this long to email you. I almost feel a little bit ashamed. I'm like, no, because it took me 10. So that's amazing. That's incredible, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Because it ranges so much depending on the intensity of the pain they feel and the realizations they have.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I have to bring it back to what you said before, because what you said before about you going to three events and just going with the flow, I know the people listening to this right now, while you were saying that, they were clenching their butt cheeks because they were like, oh, that's so freaky. And I wanted to speak to that because what you just described to me is one of the ultimate
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
benefits of mastery in this arena, and it's freedom. You were free in each one of those speeches. You were free to go where the audience wanted to go. That's one of the things I rarely ever get to even talk about because I don't get to speak to others usually who are so proficient at this skill set. That's ultimate freedom, Jay.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
When you feel something, you think something, and you're immediately in the moment able to articulate it with clarity and make people laugh at the same time. that is so powerful, man.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And to know you're going into that, being able to do that, like again, it's achievable for you listening to this too.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So I grew up first learning a Chinese dialect called Di Jiu, and then I learned Vietnamese, and then I learned English. So there was just a period of my life where I didn't understand what anybody was saying to me, and I couldn't communicate with other people. So I just went through a period of life where I felt really isolated.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's such a common story among many of the students that I coach. There usually is some kind of event when they were younger that has led them to believe that I'm terrible at this thing because there wasn't the right support. You were thrown into that. You didn't even practice. You didn't even learn the words, right? So again, you were set up to almost fail.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And a lot of the oral presentations that we do when we're young, that's what they're called, right? Oh, you're going to do a presentation. We're set up to fail.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
When you're 11 and you have to do this presentation in front of your class, do they teach you how to use your hands? Do they teach you where to put your notes? Do they teach you how to summarize notes and not write the whole damn thing on cue cards? No, they're setting you up to fail.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So this is such a common story because our school system, the entire year has one day where we have to go on in front of the class and guess what happens that day? I'm sick, mom. I can't go to school. Then you miss the one day you have training. And then if you do the training, you're all set up to fail. You're all set up. So every person has a version of this.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I didn't realize that I was doing it in my career, but as I learned how to communicate more effectively, became a professional speaker, all of this, I went, oh, wow, now I have this skill that I can teach other people. So the moment I just tried teaching it, I felt fulfillment and I never really felt that level of fulfillment before. that's when I decided, oh, wow, it's cool to do it yourself.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
My version of this is a little more dramatic because I was older. I was in university and we had to do a presentation for accounting. And I was so nervous. I remember going to the toilet 10, 12 times. So nervous. And then I got up on stage and I had a sniffle. So I kept touching my nose. I had to sniffle. And then I got a blood nose.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I didn't realize I had a blood nose because I thought I was just booger. So I didn't know. So I swiped it. Blood comes across my face. I don't know I have blood on my face. While you're speaking. While I'm speaking. I didn't know it was blood, right? And then obviously a blood vessel went. I was so nervous. Everything was going crazy. And then I didn't realize it was blood.
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Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I was still talking. And then people started laughing. And then I tasted blood. And the moment I tasted blood, I looked at my hands. There was blood everywhere. I start freaking out. I didn't know what to do. The teachers didn't even know what to do either. Do you know what I had to do? I finished the talk. You finished the talk? Well, it was only a five-minute presentation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
But I finished it because I didn't know what to do. And I panicked. And it was just the worst presentation I'd ever given. From that point, I just thought, yep, you know what? I'm going to avoid this at all costs. I'm never going to do it ever again. This is the worst experience of my life. And then when I walked off, I just, yeah, I'm glad there were no videos back then and no photos.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
That's so traumatic.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's even cooler to help other people do it. And then that's kind of when I went all in with it and found so much fulfillment. And again, I'm sure you get this all the time, but it's the comments, the emails you get, and you're like, oh, wow, I'm doing something that matters. Whereas before I was a magician. So I did that for years.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I just believe accents are really a problem. It's really the articulation and the pronunciation that lets people down. Because I just feel that accents are beautiful. I've got students from all over the world, Jay. I love listening to the accent because it tells a story. It tells me who you are.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Where it lets you down is like when I first came to the US, I didn't realize I had so much Australian slang. And Australians use, like, we shorten all of our words. It's like, yeah, man, I want to, yeah, maybe I won't, you know, yeah, all right. Like, it's just, I didn't realize I was doing so much of that. And people go, oh, Australian accent is awesome.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah, if I'll talk for a sec, you won't even understand what I'm saying if I don't. articulate and pronounce my words correctly. So I really believe that. And I have this happen all the time in my in-person classes where someone will come and ask that very question and they'll have a Polish accent or maybe they'll have an Indian accent.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And it feels weird to say it because I don't want to talk down on what magicians do. Not at all. It's just for me, the applause at times when I was doing magic, it felt really empty to me. Because I did it for so long and it started to feel a little bit empty. And then when I started teaching public speaking and communication skills, it felt full. It felt better. It felt more fulfilling.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then the moment I just get them to over articulate and practice, all of a sudden it completely changes how they sound. And here's where it happens, Jay. It's because for me, for example, right? I learned the Vietnamese language. So I learned a set of Vietnamese mouth movements.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
My big mistake was when I learned English, I used the same set of mouth movements in the Vietnamese language to go speak the English language.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Right? So then all of a sudden now when I speak English, my accent wasn't the problem. The problem was I wasn't articulating correctly. So people didn't understand me. I used to not pronounce my T's. British people are good with this, but Australians and even Asians, I didn't do it. So I'd say things like, I can't. I wouldn't pronounce, I can't. I wouldn't pronounce that.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then my T's, I would say free. Oh, can I have three of those? Instead of three of those. And then what people were associating with low levels of intelligence was not so much my accent, but it was just because I didn't articulate my words well. And this can happen in any culture. This can happen with any accent.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I've heard people with Chinese accents, Indian accents, Polish accents, Russian accents, but when they articulate their words beautifully, oh man, it's like you get to listen to a different genre of music. Otherwise, imagine everyone sounded like us. Yeah. There's no flavor. There's no personality. Again, I do not believe accents are a problem.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I believe the problem lies in your ability to articulate and articulate. your pronunciation. And here's a quick activity that you can do to help. One of the greatest things I learned that my speech pathologist made me do was first of all, grab a book.
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Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And every single day you grab a book for five minutes, four times a day, if you want to take it real seriously, every time for five minutes, read the book and overdo your lip movements, overdo the tongue movements. And then if you want to take it to the next level, put a pen in your mouth. Because if you put a pen in your mouth, you're forced to over articulate and do it out loud.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And by doing this, you'll start to learn and record yourself while you're doing it too. You'll start to learn, oh, wow, I struggle with this sound, this consonant, this vowel. And as you start to bring a little bit of awareness to it, you go, oh, right. I need to change the way I'm shaping my lips. I need to change the way.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And just going through that process alone, I remember doing that for three months.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I had to do that when I came here to the US because I slurred my words a lot. And in Australia, you fully understand if I might, right? Yeah, there's no dramas with that. But over here, all of a sudden, I was speaking in Texas and I still remember speaking in Texas for the first time. It was so sweet. They're like, I love the guy, but I ain't got no idea what he's saying. Right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And it was like this weird thing where, and then I literally had to go see a speech pathologist even later in my life because in Australia, it wasn't a problem.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I didn't realize it too, but when I slurred my words that much, it made people think I wasn't smart. And this is why people in the world think the British are so smart. Is it just the accent or is it because they articulate extremely well? So you can sound smart in any culture, with any accent.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah, we should do it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Oh, okay.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Oh, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It could be a Sharpie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The thicker the pen, the more challenging it is. That one I think I've already chewed off. Okay. Let's not give you one that I've already... Thank you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
This one does not have bite marks. No, no, no. Exactly.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Oh, so happy for you. It's in doing these things that you start, all of a sudden, now when I speak, I feel like, oh, I'm so sharp. Totally. I can feel it too. Even just from a few moments. Because you're forced to stretch your mouth so much bigger to make the shapes to be able to create the sounds. Whereas the biggest problem, and again, this happens in the English language,
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
When you think about the European languages, the Asian languages, we actually don't have to drop our jaw a lot to speak those languages. Interesting. Because when I speak Vietnamese, I can do a lot of Vietnamese with my mouth closed. I barely have to move my jaw.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yes, because it's all just a series of behaviors. Everything you and I are doing right now, everything you see a great communicator do on stage, everything you see a great creator do on video, it's just a series of behaviors. The way you're moving your mouth, the way you're manipulating airflow, the way you're moving your hands, it's all just behaviors.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
English is one of the very few languages where when you think about consciously how you're speaking, you have to drop your jaw so much to speak the English language well. Whereas again, the Asian cultures, European languages, you don't have to. Again, each language has a different set of mouth movements. So by doing that simply alone, you felt it straight away.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's because you had to move your jaw so much.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Well, imagine you did that for five minutes and you started dedicating yourself to that. My goodness, within a week, you'll notice your mouth moving differently and you'll notice yourself sounding more clear. Accents are not a problem. You've got to stop thinking that. People always go, oh, I hate my accent. That tells a story. It's your culture. It's your history. It's what makes you unique.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I always love to think of it as... It's different genres of music.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Both equally important. I see some books where I read where they go, no, what you say is more important. And then some books say, no, how you say is more important. And I think they kind of have to do that sometimes because they are an expert in one particular arena. But again, I believe the answer is not which one. It's both. Both just as critical. Same with me.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I think until I found the purpose and the fulfillment from teaching public speaking, I didn't really have much to talk about. I didn't. And until I found that, then all of a sudden I started creating content. Then the content started to take off. And I think it's because I love how you've positioned what you do here. It's on purpose.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
When I found that purpose and I had the tools and I was able to use my instrument, then all of a sudden the world resonated with that. Yes. Whereas before, I did make YouTube videos back in 2008, 2009, just for fun. But they didn't really go anywhere. Because even though I had decent access to my instrument, it just didn't go anywhere. Because I wasn't aligned. You could hear it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It wasn't on purpose.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So when people say, oh, I'm shy, I always say to them, oh, that's because you've been practicing the shy behaviors for the last 15, 20, 30, 40 years. Being a confident communicator, that's just another series of behaviors that you can practice. And if you practice that for 10, 20, 30, you'd be a confident communicator, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And that's generally the student that somehow discovers me.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's the one that is, I have something to share with the world. Right. But some reason, every time I share it, people misunderstand me. Every time I share it, it doesn't get the impact that I desire. And it's the truth because you could have the greatest piece of music written by Beethoven, But if you play it poorly, is it the greatest music?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And again, it's so interesting because I understand my students so intimately now where I know what they'll say. They say things in their life like they go, I'm just going to let my work speak for itself. Why not speak for your work too? Well, why can't we do both? Why are we so linear? Why can't we do both? So good. Right? And when they realize that, they go, oh, okay, right.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It opens their mind to the whole idea of, I kind of have the tech responsibility to shine my light. I can't wait for someone. Again, and I remember we have a mutual friend, Mel Robbins, right? Yes. Mel helped him with my speaking career. At the start of my speaking career, Mel used to flick me the gigs. I couldn't afford her. I didn't know that. I became the cheap Mel Robbins for a period. Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So I was the cheap Mel Robbins. I didn't know that. She was amazing and so gracious. Because she couldn't do those gigs, but maybe she was busy as well. And she flicked them to me. That's how she started my career here in the US.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And she was one of the people that I saw from her content as well early on where she said, no one's coming to help you. No one's coming to save you. That's when it really hit home for me. I went, okay, I'm going to have to go do this myself. And you take ownership for that. Yeah. Yeah, because when you take ownership, you step into your power. When you blame others, you kind of lose all of it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
The first thing I would say, if you speak really fast, well done for being aware that you do. Most people are not aware of it. A lot of it is to do with your mindset and the state of mind that you're in. When do you think people speak really fast? When they're feeling what? And they're nervous, scared, anxious, etc. Right? So you've got to, you kind of have to address it at the core there.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So what you need to do is you have to identify when are you speaking fast? In which situations are you speaking fast? Oh, it's when I'm in a job interview. Oh, it's when I'm going in for my quarterly review. Well, great. Now, you know, in these isolated situations, the triggers are high pressure situations. Okay, cool.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
That means before you go into those situations, you need to still your mind and your body. Again, it comes back to breathing, right? I couldn't believe it, but there were workshops that I was invited to and I did some of them. I couldn't believe we could spend three to four days on breathing. And then I found out there was a seven-day workshop on breathing. I went, seven days?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So it's just behaviors that we get attached to because it becomes a part of our identity. And then I think when it becomes a part of our identity, all of a sudden now, we feel like we're stuck, but you're not. And then there's this really interesting concept. I don't know if you've come across it before, where it's, where does your voice come from? Where do you get your voice from?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
There's so much profound wisdom in the breath. And I did not understand it until I started learning more about it. So again, breathing. Before you go in, go with the Wim Hof breathing. And that will slow down your mind and slow down your body. And then all of a sudden it slows down your speech. The next thing is adrenaline also causes you to speed and speak really quickly.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So before you go into a presentation or something that's making you nervous, get rid of the adrenaline. Some brisk walking, do a couple of push-ups, do some star jumps. I know you call them jumping jacks. Yeah, mate. It's not called a jumping jack. It's a star jump, mate. We call it star jumps in England. Oh, you do? Yeah. The Americans have it wrong. Who the hell is Jack?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So all of a sudden, do 20 star jumps. And when you do that, you get rid of all the adrenaline. The adrenaline is what makes you shake and also what makes you speak really quickly. Because when you start to shake, it's sending signals to your brain that you're nervous. Now you start to think you're nervous. And then when you think you're nervous, now you're speaking really quickly, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So again, these things help slow you down. Now, those are things you can do before you go in. One last thing you can do before you go in, actually, is what makes us really nervous is being self-conscious. But you can only be self-conscious if you're thinking about yourself. So then stop thinking about yourself and realize it was not about you. If you're going on stage, it's not about you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's about every single person you're going to serve. And I'll be honest with you too, coming here, I felt a bit nervous, right? But then I thought to myself, well, it's not about me. It's about me trying to add as much value as I can to Jay's audience. And it's about Jay. I want to connect with Jay.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And the moment I made it about you and I made it about the audience we're about to serve, I had no cognitive capacity left to be nervous because I'm not thinking about myself. So to me, these three small tools, you've got the breathing, get rid of the adrenaline and mindset shift. It helps calm you down. And now when you go in, if you find yourself racing in it, then pause and take a deep breath.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And that's how you can remedy it. Because if you go in, you're like, oh, I'm here. I'm really excited. You take a deep breath and then continue speaking. And right after the deep breath, It's going to slow your speech right down. Even when I did it there, all of a sudden I feel more relaxed now.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
The reason people aren't comfortable with the pause is because they don't know what the pause is for. Right. And when you think the pause is useless, that's why you develop the behavior of filling the pause. Always talking. non filler words as well. And so like, do you know what I mean? We do that because we don't understand the power of the pause.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Whereas the pause allows people to process what you're saying. Think about it now, listeners, as you're listening to that, the moment I paused, you just did it again. You had a moment to process the things that I was saying.
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Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
100%.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Whereas pausing gives people time to process. Pausing gives you time to breathe so that you can relax so that you don't speak too quickly. There are so many benefits to it. I mean, think of music again. I love using music analogies because the most important note in an orchestra happens after a crescendo, which is what? Silence.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You learn how to communicate based on the people you're inspired by when you were young. And you just learn behaviors from them. Like I'm watching my daughter now, my daughter, Melody, she's one. And I can see her watch us and then start to mimic the things we do. Right. My wife the other day met her spaghetti. She wouldn't eat it. So my wife was furious. She was so upset.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
They'll build the peak and then all of a sudden the musicians will play and play and it'll get to this peak moment and then just...
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And the audience is in awe of what they just experienced.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Also because there's no clarity. Yes. If people don't process anything that you say, there's no clarity. Yes. You have to think about communication. It's not what I just send. It's how it's being received.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's not, oh, I've sent it. It's done. It's out there. What do you think? I don't even remember what you said. Yeah. And I think that's a big mistake. And often people do that, again, because they don't understand that the way you deliver has an impact on how others receive.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
She was like, ah, you're not eating it. And then she goes, ah, she does the exact same thing. And then my son, he picks up the way I speak because he's seven now. I noticed he has certain nuances that I have. So again, the voice you currently have, people think, oh, that's my natural voice. It's like, no, no, no, it's not your natural voice.
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Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Or even worse, like, oh, thank you so much. Because sometimes you bring that stage persona straight down.
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Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And how did I learn that? Because that's what I started with. And you see them just, and then they freak out.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You've heard a lot of body language experts say you match and mirror people to build rapport, to make it about them, to build a connection. You match and mirror their body language. But what a lot of people don't realize is you can also match and mirror their vocal foundations.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So when you think about the voice and you divide it into five different categories and you think it from the perspective of rate of speech, volume, pitch and melody, tonality, and the pause, now all of a sudden you have these five factors that you can start to think about when you're talking to people.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So if someone comes up to you and they're naturally speaking a little bit quickly because they're nervous, like that, and they're speaking a little bit lower volume and the melody is not as great of a range, and you notice these things, then you match and you mirror where they are with their voice too. And then people immediately feel like, oh, you're approachable.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And it's not that we stay there because some people go, oh, but that's inauthentic, that's not right. No, no, that's you being a great and dynamic communicator. That's you going, hey, I'm going to meet you where you are to make you feel comfortable, to build connection, to make it about you. meet them where they are, and then slowly you take them back out.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So if you're meeting them where they are, you go, oh, hey, thank you for coming up and saying hello. But hey, can I just ask you quickly too, what did you really take away? What was the key thing you took away? Oh, you took that away. Oh, that's awesome. Hey, I'm so happy that you came up and had a chat with me. All of a sudden now, once you're in rapport, you can take them to where you want to go.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And that's something you can take onto a Zoom call. You meet them where they are. If someone's really excited about an idea they want to bring to you, you can meet them there with that excitement to show them respect. As opposed to a lot of the times previously in my life, someone will come to me really excited and I have one gear, Jay. And I'm just one gear. I'm like, oh, that sounds really cool.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You lost your natural voice when you were two or three years old. Whereas the voice you have now, that's your habitual voice. It's just a series of habits. And the thing that I find the most fascinating is that when the habits move from your conscious mind and it goes into your subconscious mind, now you feel it's a part of you and now you're stuck with it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah, that's great. Awesome, man. And I didn't realize that then all of a sudden I made them feel less important. Yeah. Whereas now all of a sudden I've learned that, ah, when someone comes to me with a peak emotion, even if it's frustration, I will mirror that for them to show them that, hey, I feel you. It's like, ah, man, that sucks. Right. So it's not just in the words that I use.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I deliver it in a way so they can hear that I'm with you and I'm on the same page. Yes. It's one of the fastest ways to build rapport with people.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You're right. Yeah, how's it going? You lower your volume too. You meet them where they are. You're like, hey, I noticed on the other call, are you okay? And all of a sudden, people are way more likely to open up if you used your instrument that way as opposed to, oh, mate, what's going on? What's going on, man? Come on. Look at the weather outside. It's amazing today. What's going on?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
They're definitely not opening up to that person. But I didn't have that sensitivity growing up. No sensitivity. I didn't know why so many of my relationships when I was young would fail.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Like I remember one of my partners when I was really young, where I would ask her, I'd say to her on a Friday night, I'm like, hey, I know we've got dinner plans tonight, but the guys are doing a LAN party and we're going to go play CSGO. Can I go? And she'll go, yeah, fine, just go then. And I just went, you are the most amazing person girlfriend in, I thought you would have said no.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then I went, next day she broke up with me. And I'm like, why? And I'll listen to Backstreet Boys. And I'll be like, why did you break up with her? But she said, yes. And that's when I went through that era. I was like, women are so confusing. It doesn't make sense. She said I could go. And it was because I wasn't listening to the emotion in the voice. I didn't even have that gear, man.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I just thought what people said, oh, that's it. I take you for what you said. So it's fine. So it's fine.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah. No, but you did say that. But you did. Yes. I know I did, but that's not the point. But again, all of a sudden having sensitivity now, I've got so many different gears now, Jay. And that's the analogy I love to use too, is that because sometimes a lot of people feel that, oh, there's only one version of me.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And Jay, this is the only version of me and I'm this version of me in every situation. That's like having a car with one gear. We are so much more dynamic than as a human being. And I get my shoes to think about this all the time. Think about when you're angry, You use your voice differently. You use your body language differently.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
When you've done something wrong, and when I've done something like I've maybe stayed out with the guys too late one night, I come home, I talk different to my wife. I'm like, I know. Yep, I'm sorry. And I'm very sheepish. You're different when you've done something wrong. We use our instrument differently in every single one of those situations.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
But when we don't consciously think about it, sometimes we can default to just one gear. I shopped at the interview the exact same way. I shopped and we shop in just one rigid gear. And we go, why am I not standing out? Why don't I get more attention? Why don't I get that promotion that I deserve?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
But in the beginning of your life, you have to consciously think, oh, dad speaks really softly, so I'm going to speak really softly. But the moment you do that for two, three years, now it moves into your subconscious mind. And then you go, oh no, that's me. No, no, it's still just a series of behaviors. And that's all that it is.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You've got to learn to be more dynamic.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah, no, but it brings up a really important insight that I learned along the way. And it's that be as big as the room.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And you notice how sometimes people do this incorrectly. And I used to be one of those people. Tell me how you do that incorrectly. Well, because when I first learned about all this, I went, oh, wow, this is amazing. I'm going to bring this and I'll bring this to this. And then people are like, ah, it's a little bit of a wanker. That's a bit much, don't you think?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I used to do that because I had no sensitivity. I just thought, oh, no, this is really good. I should be like this all the time. And then I realized, oh, wow, no, no, no. Just that simple rule of be as big as the room. Again, the version of you, I'm assuming, if you're in front of 10,000 people, imagine we're in front of 10,000 people and we're like, oh, hey, everyone. It's great to be here.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I'm excited to, it won't work. It won't work, right? Unless you're Eckhart Tolle, then it's totally fine. That's on brand, right? Whereas all of a sudden, you need to bring a much bigger version of you. But you have to develop that sensitivity. Whereas I see sometimes when my students who are new to communications, they miss the mark. And usually they're too small.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
More often than not, they have this fear. I'm going to be too much. No, no, no. The danger is not you're too much. The danger is that you've been living way too small. For me, it's always about pushing them up. But the fear they have is, oh, but it's too much. I'm like, no, no, no, no, it's too little. You're playing too small, right? So again, that sensitivity is important to develop.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
When you're with 30 people, it's a different version of you and it's okay because you have to be a bigger version of you to be effective in that medium. Yes. Otherwise, it will seem like you don't care. Otherwise, sometimes it can come across like you don't care.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And people think, but I'm not on stage. Yeah, but anytime you open your mouth in public, that's public speaking. Right. It is public speaking. Yeah. You're publicly speaking every single day. And that also shows an opportunity, Jay. If 75% of people fear it, that means only one in four people kind of do it. So if you can get good at this skill, you now have a competitive edge.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And one of the greatest things that I've noticed is that why do creators become such great communicators? They do. I mean, watch creators. Why do they become such great communicators? It's because they film themselves every single day and they watch it back and they notice behaviors that serve them and they notice behaviors that don't serve them.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then they remove the behaviors that don't serve them. Because one of these things that I ask a lot of creators, I always ask them like, so what formal communication training did you do? And they're like, What? What are you talking about, Vin? I'm like, I had to learn so many years to learn. And from that simple process, that's why I want to bring it back again for the listeners, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Four stages.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
That simple process. If you just committed to the process of recording yourself once a week, you will now have one of the competitive edges that all creators have. They're impeccable communicators. And why do you keep going back to the creators that you love every single week? You keep watching every video. It's because they're able to form a connection with you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
What skill are they using to form that connection with you? The ability to communicate and articulate ideas with clarity. So all of a sudden now, you kind of see that hidden secret there where it's about, they just keep putting in the reps, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah, I would have been terrible at it at the time.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Right.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And you'd make a big decision whether you're going to go to your now social media feed or not, right? So there are certain cues that you recognize as being cues that are engaging. Oh, the way they're using their voice, I'm in. The way they're using their body language, oh, I'm in, right? So you already have all of that information in your mind, but here's where it gets interesting.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You've never applied any of those ideas in your head to yourself, right? So you'll be shocked because again, when you all of a sudden watch yourself, you go, oh no, I come across like Barry. Oh no. Sorry to the Barrys out there. Just picked a random name. But again, they go, oh no, I come across like Barry. But that's because again, you've been avoiding this your entire life. Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And the reason why I wanted to bring it up again, I'm so glad you brought it up again, is because if there's one thing you do, if you listen to this episode- is record a video of yourself. And you'll thank Jay and I later because you'll see things that you didn't realize you know. You have so much beautiful knowledge already in your mind about what makes a great communicator.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Because why are you drawn to a certain YouTube video and a certain creator? You've already have these internal references in your mind of what great communication is for you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And all of a sudden now you get to apply the same list of things to yourself. Do you know how cool that is? That is so cool. And which brings me to my next point where my students ask me, they go, well, how do I become myself though? How do I find my, because I always talk about this present version of you and your way to attach to it. Let go of the present version of you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Give the future version of you a chance. And they go, well, how do we make that transition? Well, I say, look, first of all, just record yourself. But then after that, as you begin this journey, I view the journey of being a great communicator like the journey of becoming a great chef. So how would you become a great chef?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You would go out and you would look for a great chef and you would look for one of the recipes. You'd buy the recipe book and then you'd copy their recipe, right? And then at the beginning, you copy the recipe almost exactly and then you start cooking it and you eat it and you go, I didn't think that's what the chef was intending. So you copy a little closer and you go, oh, I did the method wrong.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then as you copy closer, you go, oh, wow. It tastes amazing. And then as you cook it a few more times, you gain the confidence now to go, you know what? I'm going to add a little more chili. I got to say that the chef didn't put enough chili. You put a bit more chili. You put a little lemon. You put a little bit more garlic, onion, everything. And now you make it your own.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Same thing with communication skills. Yes. If you want to get some inspiration, go look up your top five communicators. Yeah. And then sit down, watch the video, break it down. What are they doing that you love so much? Try those behaviors on. Now you have an ocean of different behaviors to play with. And you'll try some of them on and you'll go, that's not me. Same with me.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
When I first started speaking on stage, I admired Anthony Robbins so much. I was like, wow, because I read his books, it changed my life. And I was like, I'm going to try to be like Anthony Robbins. And I jumped up and I did it. And it felt so wrong because I was like, this is not me, but that was okay. I had to have done that to know it wasn't for me.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I had to have eaten that dish to know I didn't like the flavor, but too many of us judge it before we try it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I'm not even going to try that dish. No, try it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Because that's how I discovered some of my favorite dishes in my life was I resisted it, I tried it, loved it. Loved it after that, right? So again, start looking up a list of five communicators that you love. And then just pick a few different things from them and try it on. Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah. Showmanship is a magician's fancy word for communication skills, right? Unbelievable. Unbelievable, yeah. Showmanship, unbelievable. Everything. Everything.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Stagecraft, mastery. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It makes you want to give up magic when you see someone like that because you go, he's too good. He's too good. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I remember doing a trip to the UK. My wife... My wife likes Derren Brown. She just doesn't love Derren Brown like me. Same, same. We followed him to three cities to watch the same show.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So that's why my wife couldn't stand it anymore by the end of it. But I watched the same show three times. I loved it even more the third time.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
what you talked about before his ability to execute what they call planned spontaneity is unbelievable that is such a skill like your comedian friend yes even though it happens nearly every night people think it's random yes but it happens every night planned spontaneity he made it look spontaneous every single time and i appreciated every moment of that yeah i was like how did you make that looks even more fresh than the first two times yeah it's incredible
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And that's kind of a frustrating part for people to be at stage three.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I mean, the content's insane, but... Again, think of it from the perspective of music. Yeah. Right? There are times that lyrics can be so powerful. Yeah. that the way you play that song is irrelevant because the lyrics of it speak to your heart. It's so strong that it doesn't matter how you play, it hits you. And that's where you can lean into the content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Because they go, I know it, but then I still have to think about it. So when they do it, it's really interesting because I see my students do this all the time where they go, hello, everybody. It's great to be here. And then they go, Vin, this feels so fake. It feels so phony. But I'm like, you have to go through that stage to get to stage four, which is unconscious competence, which is mastery.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
There is some content that is just so powerful that regardless of delivery, it hits because of the profound nature that exists within the lyrics. And then I've seen pianists play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and I was flabbergasted. one of the most basic songs you've ever heard and the way they added chords to it and the rhythm and the way they – I've never heard Tungu Tungulu style like that.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So you can take something basic and use delivery to make it amazing or you could take something truly profound and have no delivery and it's just as amazing. And that's the beauty of music. That's the beauty of poems and art and it's the beauty of that, right? And you just have to determine for you. with what you're currently doing, does it have that level of profoundness?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And can you keep that level of profoundness that consistently throughout this life where you can just forget about delivery? And if you can, damn, good for you. That's amazing. Yeah, if you're Steve Jobs. Yeah, if you're Steve Jobs, that's incredible. And everything you say is that potent, then you don't have to worry about your communication skills.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Because one of the, I'm sure you get this, you get trolls, but I always have trolls in my content where they're like, Oh, yeah? But then what about Elon Musk? He doesn't have to work. What about his communication skills? And I always say, I shouldn't ever respond to this, but sometimes I get a bit cheeky and I do.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I go, listen, mate, if you're as smart and intelligent as Elon Musk, forget about communication skills. Just get us to Mars. Make us a multi-planetary species, right? Forget about it. Please, please save the human race. But if you're a mere mortal like me, then you probably should work on this skill. Yeah. But do you know what I mean?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So again, and sometimes you're right. Sometimes when you have something that profound, you also want to let go of some of the bells and whistles.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You want to let go of some of that.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's a delivery choice and a delivery style.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
misalignment. However, when it comes to communication alone, it's usually people trying something out that they haven't really ironed out yet. And I hope this is not nauseating and people are starting to vomit in the back of their throats at this point. But when somebody first plays the saxophone, how's it sound, Jay?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah, I have one of those neighbors. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. I find it very sweet as a young kid learning how to play, right? And do you ever sit for a moment and going, that is the most inauthentic saxophone player I've ever heard in my life.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
What a fake saxophone player. No, you go, that person's learning. And I'm just making it communication related. Yeah, I love it. So when I have my students try out things for the first time and they're doing things like this, right? So they first learn volume. They go, ah, I've been speaking with a low volume my whole life. So then they go, okay, I'm going to try to talk like this. Okay.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And a lot of people aren't willing to push through that because they go, no, it doesn't feel natural. So that means it's not right.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I've just learned hand gestures. So I'm going to try to, people immediately look at that and go inauthentic.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You're doing something that's not authentic to you. No, no, no, no. I'm like, stop. That is someone just starting to learn how to play the saxophone. And the moment you call them inauthentic and fake, do you know what happens to them? They now revert to the same behaviors they've been repeating for the last 30 years of their life.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's such an intricate moment for someone when they're choosing to play their instrument in a different way that you've got to help them move towards the future version of them, Jay. And that's what we sense that inauthentic part where we go, oh, this person, I feel like they've been inauthentic. You don't know the backstory.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Maybe this person is trying to be heard because their entire life they've been invisible. And the way that they're trying on this new way of speaking is because they're just testing out the instrument in a different way. And you just caught them on a bad day. You just caught them when they were playing poorly. And I think we need a little more of that compassion.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
We need a little more of that empathy because I've, I've approached that and I've made those judgments before myself too.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
But I've also been through that messy middle where when I spoke, again, I was like a robot. And again, I knew that people were judging me. But if I didn't have the courage in that moment to push through, then I would still be the same version of me from 15 years ago.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So I feel that from a communication context, when you're trying to improve, when people sense that in you, it's just you learning how to play the saxophone. Yeah. It's okay. So all you got to do is this. All you got to do is this. Before you start to play with your voice and your body differently and you start to improve the way you communicate, prime your conversations.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Say to your partner, say to your neighbor before you learn the saxophone, say, hey, listen, I've been inspired by listening to Vin and Jay on the podcast. And I want to change the way I use my voice. Okay. I've been quiet my entire life. I want to give you and the kids more energy. if you see me speaking with more volume, can you encourage me? Because I want to be more. I want to give more.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
All of a sudden, if you give that context now, the next time you're like, hey, honey, I'm home. And she was like, oh, hey, it's so good to see you try. Now with that context, they support you. Without the context, if you just immediately come home, they go, ugh. I know what they'll say. They go, why are you doing that with your voice? Why are you doing that? Why are you doing that?
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Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And it's because something my vocal coach used to say too. She used to say this. She goes, Your voice is your personality. And I used to read, I'm like, what? And she goes, no, no, no. Your voice is your personality, Vin. When people compliment you on your personality, the literal thing they're complimenting is how you're playing your instrument.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Because that's how we perceive personality. Yeah. We perceive personality through the use of the instrument.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Personality comes through music. That's why you can listen to a soundtrack. I do this experiment with not only my kids, but my students too. I love doing this experiment where I just play a piano track and I get them to listen to it. And I go, what words come to mind? And it's crazy. They'll say things like, my students will say things like, oh, I hear complexity. I hear drama.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I hear, oh, I hear pain. I hear misery. I hear nostalgia. And I always wake them up to it. And I go, do you know there were no words in that? None, none whatsoever. Yet you got a world of meaning from that. People get a world of meaning just from the sound of your voice and how you use your voice.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So if you pay no attention to that, that means you're putting no intention into how you're coming across.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
They're trying something new.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
They're exploring.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then what we don't realize we're doing is then we give them negative feedback that immediately puts them into the same patterns of behavior that has been causing them pain because we're not as compassionate. We see what they do. We don't see why they do what they do, right? Whereas I think if we took a moment to go, why would that person do that?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Oh, maybe they're exploring their instrument, right? And I think it was Carl Jung that said that. Again, we see what people do. We don't see why they do what they do.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Jay, thank you for giving me the opportunity. I'm from Adelaide, South Australia. I never thought that I'd ever be able to connect with you in person and hang out with you, Jay. This is unreal. Thank you for the opportunity.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So you can't, you can't, you can't, yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
No, no, no, I won't. I'm going to try to stick to, hey, rules are rules. Okay, all right.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Your voice is an instrument. Play all of the songs that are trapped within you. Don't die with all your music trapped inside.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's a long sentence. It's a great sentence.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
If you're nervous, just look over their heads.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
What are you meant to do? Well, again, you want to look at people, look at them in the eyes because the advice was look over their heads. They won't be able to tell. And this was my first piece of advice I was given when I was going on stage. And I started looking over people's heads and it just looked like I was arrogant, right? Because I was like, oh, hey, everyone, good to see you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I love your definition of home, where you say home is the familiar, right? And to me, the way you currently communicate, you have a home. And that is because those behaviors you've been repeating for the last 10, 20, 30 years, right? So that feels like home to you. Whereas what people don't realize is, and I don't mean to take a long explanation for that. I think it's important.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I wasn't looking them in the eyes.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You don't have a clue. Well, the worst thing is it's that and then you look like an arrogant prick.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
It's the excess adrenaline. And you have the remedy to that in this episode already. Star jumps.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
That I was stuck with the sound of my voice. It's just a series of behaviors. If you change the behaviors, you change the sound. Example, when I told my dad I wanted to leave accounting to become a magician. I remember what he said. He said, what the hell you want to be to Harry Potter? Literally what he said to me. I just changed the way I moved my mouth. I just changed a series of behaviors.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I changed the sound I was able to create. It's just behaviors.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah, so my mom and dad are refugees in Vietnam and they cling to safety and security because of fear and they've known fear all of their lives. So I remember coming home saying to my mom and dad, I said, mom, dad, I really want to quit university. And obviously they wanted me to fulfill the Asian prophecy. Obviously, same with your parents. Yes. I'm sure.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I had this really heart to heart conversation with them where I said, mom, dad, why did you escape the war? Why? And they said, we escaped because we want to find a better home for you. But I'm like, yeah, yeah, but why? Why was Vietnam at the time not a good home? Why is Australia a better home? And they said, freedom. And I said, oh, great.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So you made the decision to flee to Australia for freedom. Then do you want to force me into a career that's going to create misery for me? Is that what you want? And I know why you're doing this because of love, mom and dad, because you're so afraid, but we're not in Vietnam anymore. We're in Australia and we're free.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I know that the reason you came here is to give me the freedom to do what I love. And I was able to wake them up from fear and remember the main reason why they came here in the first place. Because their lives were driven by fear of not enough, of we're in danger. And they still carried all of that fear. They didn't realize it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And when I woke them up to that, it was such a beautiful conversation because it was almost like my parents were reminded. They're like, no, no, thank you for reminding us. We've been so driven by fear our entire lives. Because I said to them, I did work experience at an accounting firm and Dad, do you know what they all do on a Friday night?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
They go drinking because they're drowning their sorrows in something they don't like. And I'm sure people love accounting. It's just where I did work experience, they didn't love it. They dreaded every day, right? And I said, that's me. That's going to be me. That's the path I'm walking. So I already know that's not the path.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then the most beautiful thing my dad said to me after realizing all of this is he goes, you still owe me one thing though, boy. In this life, you have to jump as high as you can. And as long as I'm alive, I'll forever be your net.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I needed that net a lot of times. Oh yeah, I tested that net many times. And I share this now in a long answer because Jay, I'm sitting here having achieved things I've achieved because of my mom and my dad. Without that net, without their support, without their love, without their guidance, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have been able to do this.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And I think this is true for those listening too. You would not be where you are if it wasn't for, whether it's the families we choose or the families we were born into. If it wasn't for them, we would not be who we are. We would not be where we are.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Yeah. And then you quit magic. The first time my dad came and saw me speak, at the end of it, the funniest thing, he comes up to me and he goes, they pay you for this? So mind-blowing because he goes, because I wouldn't. He was just so shocked. He couldn't believe it was a thing. He couldn't believe that professional speaking was a career path. But it's so beautiful to see their mind open up.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
When you used to ask me what my home was when I was young, I would say my suburb. So I'd say Salisbury Downs. Then as I got older, I started to explore my city. I'll say Adelaide is my home, South Australia, right? And then as I explored more of my state, then I would say South Australia is my home. Then I explored more of Australia. I go, Australia is my home.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And then the most beautiful thing my dad said to me recently, this was maybe in the last five years, where he came up to me and he said, thanks for not giving up on me. Because there was a lot of conversations at the time in many different Vietnamese families where the kids would give up on their parents, where it would be like, you know, if you're not supporting me, stuff you. I'm out.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Whereas I really didn't give up on my parents. I remember my first magic gig I did and I made like 1500 bucks for performing for an hour. This was outrageous. This is a week's worth of work, right? And I bought home the cash and I was like, dad, look, I got this in an hour. And I celebrated that moment with him.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I made him a part of that because I knew that I had to slowly show him what's possible. I couldn't. All of a sudden, go, dad, refugee, been through the war. And it immediately said, magician. To him, it's like, what the frick is that? That doesn't make sense. But as I slowly shared my wins with him on my journey, I was able to open my dad's mind.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So my dad got to be a part of the journey with me and my mom. And when he thanked me for that, it was one of the sweetest moments because you could have very easily gave up on me. And now we have this beautiful relationship. And it's one of my most important relationships.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
That counts as one word. No, no, no. I wanted to hear it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Use your instrument to spread more love, kindness, and compassion.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Thank you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
100%.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Now I've lived in LA and Southern California. I go, oh, I kind of feel like America is my home too. And then as I travel more of the world, I go, oh, the world is my home. The same thing with your communication skills. You have access to this incredible instrument, but your home is such a small part of that instrument. Say a piano has 88 keys, right? Right now, home to you is five keys.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
because you're only familiar with those five keys. But as you start to realize you have access to this incredible instrument, you start to play the other keys, home becomes the entire piano. Whereas the struggle that people have is the moment they do something that they're unfamiliar with, instead of labeling it as unfamiliar, they label it as fake and phony.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And what happens the moment you do that? You stop exploring your instrument. And now you are limited to the five keys you've been playing with your entire life. And I think there's an over-attachment to the familiar, which keeps us the same.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Because when you think about this, most people change the way they dress, they change their glasses, they change their house, they change their car, but they never change the way they talk. They never change the way they communicate because we are way too attached to the familiar. And I say to my students this all the time, don't be so attached to who you are in the present.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
You don't give the future version of you a chance. There's a future version of you where the world is home. There's a future version of you where you can play all ATA keys.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
First thing would be they want to get from stage one. unconscious incompetence to like, you've made me aware of one thing. How can I start to become aware of more things? So again, self-awareness. So first thing they go is like, how can I become more self-aware? I've now been, I'm awake now to the problem of my communication. How can I begin that journey and become more aware?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And when they ask me that question, then I share with them a very simple technique. And a very simple technique that I share with them is record and review. So the only way to become more aware is if you see yourself. And most people hate watching themselves on video. Most people hate listening to themselves on audio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
So that means they've been going through their entire life avoiding the two most critical things you need to develop self-awareness with your communication. And they hate this process. So the process is record a video of you speaking for five minutes, right? And then when you review and reflect on that video, leave it for a day so you're less critical of yourself.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And once you've left it for a day, the first time you grab your phone to review the video, put it on mute, and then just look at yourself. And then as you're looking at yourself, take notes. What am I doing with my hands? How are my facial expressions? What am I doing with my legs? How am I moving? Do I have any visual tics? So you take a whole bunch of notes.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
That's the beginning process of self-awareness. Then after that, turn the volume up. Just listen to yourself now. Turn the phone around, play, just listen. And as you're listening now, listen to the vocal qualities. What do you like about your voice? What don't you like? What can you hear? How's your rate of speech? How's your volume? What's your melody like?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
Do you hear the passion if you're passionate about something? You'll take so many notes when you do this. What are your filler words, non-words? You get all of that down. Then the last step is get it transcribed. So once you transcribe it now, you can see the way you communicate in a completely different perspective. You might notice you speak in circles. I repeated the same thing four times.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
What am I doing? And you'll see different things. If you just go through that process once, You'll get a list of five to 10 things. That's how you begin your journey of self-awareness. Yet people will resist that because it's too uncomfortable. They'll record it, but they won't watch it. But the ones that do, Jay, I immediately get a DM after. Shock.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
I can't believe I do X. And it's crazy because I think of one of my students right now where he said, for six years, I've been held back in my career because my managers and my leaders say that I lack clarity, I lack authority, and I lack confidence. And he goes, and they give me this feedback, yet they don't tell me what I need to improve.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
And do you know what I realized, Vin, through doing this recording review process? The one thing that has robbed me of six years of progress is my umming and ahhing. I can't believe umming and ahhing has held me back. And he was so frustrated. And I remember I had to tell him, I go, look, I get your frustration, but at least it didn't hold you back for 20 years. And you realized it now.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Communication Expert Vinh Giang: Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (How to Use Your Voice So People ACTUALLY Listen)
But something simple as umming and ahhing held him back for that long and destroyed his perception of being a great leader. It's kind of crazy.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You have this ability to become confident in every single area of your life. It's about us just learning a new series of behaviors. For example, there's something called a siren technique. In three, two, and one.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'm crazier than usual.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
They emulate, they copy. So the voice that you've developed, you've copied that based on the people you were inspired by when you were young. It's just a series of habits. The way you speak, the way you sound is just a series of behaviors.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's how you manipulate your vocal cords, how you move air through your body, how you shape your lips, where you place your teeth, how you maneuver your tongue, how you maneuver your soft palate. Depending on how you do all of that, you create a certain sound. But if I change now, as you said, people are going to think I'm weird. Well, that's right. Well, that's right. But that's the thing.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You have to have a process to go about that change. Okay. Because if you immediately just talk tonight with your partner with no context, they'll go, ew, what the hell? Why did you talk to Vin? I had Vin on the podcast. Yeah, why? Now you're fake. Yeah. Right? We'll get to that in a moment. What I'm saying is that the reason why you don't move from that is because you genuinely feel stuck.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'll give you the reason behind it. When you're first imitating dad, I had one of my students, his name's Tanzia, beautiful, beautiful guy. He had a very soft way of speaking, beautiful soft way of speaking. And what he didn't realize is that in the beginning of his life, he saw dad do it, really inspired by dad, so he copied dad.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So he had to consciously think about all these little behaviors, all these nuances to copy dad's sound. And then after you repeat those behaviors for one year, two years, you no longer have to consciously think about it because you've mastered it. So now those behaviors move from your conscious mind and moves into your subconscious mind.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then when behaviors move into your subconscious mind, now it feels automatic. So now you feel like it's you. So now you don't doubt it. You go, no, no, that's me. It's like, no, no, it's still just a series of behaviors.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I often tell my students, I say all the time, I say, don't be so attached to who you are in the present. You don't give the future version of you a chance. And the moment these things happen, it's incredible seeing these changes because all my students will do is they'll change three things. More volume, more melody, bigger hand gestures. People completely change the way they perceive them.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Three simple things that they do creates a profound change in how others perceive them.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah, I was thinking to one example of one of my students who, a female, Rachel, who felt like she didn't have great executive presence. And it was because she became, she labeled herself as being shy. And I like to break these things down for my students too.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'm like, the reason you're shy and the reason you're really good at being shy is because you've been repeating the shy behaviors for the last 25 years. So you're really good at it. And that's all right. It's because you've been practicing shy for 25 years. Being more confident, it's about us just learning a new series of behaviors. Let's try a larger gesture.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I've seen this on multiple podcasts now. Just try a larger gesture. Try a stronger volume. Try being more melodic with your voice. And then she was practicing that and immediately the feelings of, oh, it feels fake, it feels phony, I go, oh, no, it's just unfamiliar. And the moment she makes that reset, she goes, oh, I'll continue to explore then.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Whereas if she thinks it's fake, she'll revert back to being who she was before. So how do I speak impromptu? How do I be in the moment and come up with a good answer? Another one is I'm introverted. Does that mean that I'm doomed?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah. And another really common one is I don't have much connection in my life. I wish I felt more connected to the people that I'm around. Why is it that I can't get past the... the, g'day mate, how are you? Yeah, I'm good, how are you? Yeah, I'm good. All right, cheers mate, have a good one. Oh, the small talk. Yeah, yeah, this is a big topic, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So again, it's just, how do we get to these conversations that you get to have on so many of these wonderful podcasts that you do?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It came about when I realized I spend, and I think most of us spend a lot of time on our visual image, right? How we look, our body language, the way we dress. But very rarely do people spend time on their vocal image. Now, I'll make it make sense. When people see you and you reveal your visual image, they make assumptions about you pretty quickly.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So they form assumptions, oh, this person seems friendly. Maybe they're confident because they've got good posture. Maybe they're smiling, they're friendly. And then all of a sudden, when you open your mouth and you speak, they now turn these assumptions into beliefs, right? So what may be assumptions before, now they go, oh, you are friendly. You are confident, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Or they might think, oh, no, bit of a wanker, right? And you've had these experiences before. I've had them before where you assume you see someone, you go, oh, that person's really good. Go meet them. You go, ah, not really nice. That's weird. So it's another layer that we don't think about, though, because we, again, think we're stuck with our voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
We think we're stuck with the way we communicate. We think there's no way for me to ever change this.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Fantastic. That's fantastic. You did a great job, right? Okay. And then this next one is volume. So critical. Because if I just increase my volume and I talk like this, I sound a little bit aggressive, don't I? But with volume to highlight something, you could go very quiet. So it's about waking people up to the power of their voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Okay, so is that variety? Yeah, variety. Yeah, pitch variety. Pitch and melody. Okay. Well, because there's a melody that lives underneath your voice. All right, let's do an experiment. I'm going to play you a piano song, and I want you to listen to this, and then... You're at home right now. I want you to listen to the track and see what words come to mind.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
MUSIC PLAYS
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
inspirational, motivational. Good. See, all of a sudden now, and I'm thinking running towards something, right? And again, there's a part of me that thinks, oh, cheesy commercial, right? There's that part of it too. So you can hear all these different things. Let's try one more. This one, we'll shift gears again. What about this one?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
About to die.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Something bad's about to happen. Omnius.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes, with long black hair. Yeah. Yes, correct. So that, again, all of a sudden paints all these different vivid pictures in your head. The reason I did that experiment is there were no words in any of those tracks. Yet think about all of the words that rushed to your mind as you were experiencing the melody, the different notes. What people fail to realize is that you have a melody in your voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
This is why when some people walk into our lives, it could drain the energy from our lives. And when they walk in, you feel the impact of them walking in, right? In the negative way or a positive way. Some walk in and you go, oh, I feel good. I feel great. What is that? It's the melody in which they come in with.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I help people learn that they have access to one of the most beautiful instruments in the world that can help them negotiate whatever reality they desire. And I learned this through my first-ever vocal teacher, Miss Stanley. And I'll never forget this experience. There's a dingy music corner in South Australia, and I would go there for lessons.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah. Again, because we genuinely don't have 88 keys, right? So, again, it's a metaphor. But I believe that we can create so many different songs with our voice if we learn to treat it as an instrument. And we can play with the technique to help you increase your vocal range if you want. Sure. There's something called a – this is fun. This is a fun one. There's something called a siren technique.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Okay. Yeah. Okay, so a siren technique is when you read something with a low voice and then you go towards a high voice and you go back down to a low voice. So now I don't want you to start with. I just want you to read this as you would and then we'll try the siren technique. So just read it as you would neutrally first.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Are you serious? Dark Knight, The Joker. Oh, okay. Heath Ledger, so amazing. Okay, cool, great. So again, you read that in your neutral voice. Now what we're going to do is we're going to play with the instrument. Okay. So the siren technique is when you read with a really low voice and then gradually you go to a high voice and I'm going to challenge you to not be afraid to go into the falsetto.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Don't be afraid to play. Just play. And it's not about going low at the start and then high at the bottom. Within each sentence, I want you to go up and down, up and down. I really want you to play with your voice. Otherwise, I'm going to push you. Okay. In three, two, go for it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Want to know how I got these scars? My father was a drinker and a fiend.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Good. And more naive as I am. Crazier than usual. Mommy gets the kitchen knife to defend herself.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Okay, wow. It hurts. Now try to go in a way where it is a little more even. Just give it a go. But normally you won't be able to because you won't have all of the range fully expanded. Try again. Keep going. He doesn't like that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And he says...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Why so serious, son?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Fantastic. That's fantastic. You did a great job, right? But you feel that feeling you feel right now. Yeah, weird. Yes. And it's not so much about getting you to speak like that on the podcast, but it's more just helping you realise this instrument that you have is capable of so much more.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
There is so much more that it can do as opposed to what we normally do with it. Because for the longest time of my life, I didn't have any melody because I just thought this was how you talk. And the reason I can switch to this very quickly, Stephen, is because I practiced these behaviors for about 25 years.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
What's even more interesting is they've done studies where they had five or six people talking at the same time. And the person who the person heard was the person who had more melody in their voice. Oh, really? The person who is more melodic, what they say becomes more memorable. Whereas if all of us were speaking like this, me, yourself, Jack, everyone, all of a sudden you wouldn't hear.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You wouldn't be able to hear the difference. Whereas all of a sudden, if you just start to play with your voice a little more. How do you know you've not played with it too far? Do you know what I'm saying? By playing with it too far and then getting feedback.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Right.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And people are so afraid of that, though. And they don't realize that they don't go too far. They underplay things. The risk is not going too far. The risk is not going far enough.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And the first time I met her, I walked into the room. She's an old lady. And she says nothing to me except the words, sit down, young man. So I sit. It feels super awkward. It feels super weird. And then she plays one key nonstop on the piano for two minutes. Literally I was like, oh, shit, this is like something out of a horror movie. And then she turns around and she goes, how do you feel?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You'll be able to make people feel more connected to you. They'll feel what you're saying, not just hear what you're saying. I mean, do you notice this in some people? Of course. They will say things, but you don't feel it. It happens in America's Got Talent, Australia's Got Talent, where Simon Cowell will say, right, right, very good, but I don't feel it. What are they talking about?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's the emotion in their voice. there is emotion in your voice too. Do you want to go to the next one? Please. I didn't know there was more. There's more. Yeah, there's five. Let's go through all five. No, next one. I'm just going to get you to read this one as you would, and then I'll tell you what it is. Okay. Just so you don't get ahead of yourself.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Okay.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Okay, cool. And see, tell me, please tell me you know this movie. Fire out, Stephen.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes, very dark movies. I love these movies. What movie is this?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
What's it called?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
No, what is it? Right, from Taken. But here's the thing. So the next foundation is rate of speech.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So if you were reading that, and I was kind of just giving you some coaching, again, as you were reading that, think of rate of speech of having a scale from zero to 10. Yeah. So 1 being painfully slow and 10 being as quickly as you possibly can. So you were around playing around a 5. Very comfortable. That's your default rate of speech.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Most of us, when we're nervous, we just have a default rate of speech. We fall victim to a default rate of speech. When you think about rate of speech, there's a way to use it. And the way you use rate of speech is if you really want to highlight a point, creating an auditory highlight, slow down. That creates an auditory highlight. It's like a highlighter with your words.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And if you want to be able to show charisma, energy, you speed up. And if it's not as important, you can speed up and that's fine. This simple rule gives you vocal variety with your rate of speech.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So for example, if I was speaking and I said, right now I'm going to go through the five core vocal foundations and I'm going to take you first one through is the rate of speech. Then after that, I'm going to talk to you about pitch and melody. And then after that, I'll talk to you about the importance of the other three. Right now, you have no idea what is important, what is not important.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Whereas all of a sudden now, if I said, I'm going to take you through the core five vocal foundations, All of a sudden, you now have a point of focus. And the big thing that people want with their communication is clarity. Well, if you are going to be more clear, the delivery needs to be clear so that the receiver gets what you intend.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's not just about the exchange of information, because how I say something impacts how you receive it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes. And this script has multiple places where you want to slow down.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
If you get above 210 words per minute, you're a little bit too fast.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Around 150. You want to get to around 150, 180. That's very good. That's a good kind of rate of speech to be at. Whereas if you're slower than that, then again, it just gets a little bit monotonous at times for people. But again, here's what's fascinating. If all of a sudden now I stick to a default melody and then stick to a default rate of speech, notice what's happening in your brain, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I said, nothing, weird, awkward, what? And then she goes, good, turns around, plays this beautiful song called Mariage d'Amour. Goes over for two minutes. And then she turns around and she goes, how do you feel? And I said, ah, weirded out from before still. But I feel, wow, that song had love. There was lust. There was romance. There was excitement. And she goes, good.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
All of a sudden you start to, again, you start to switch off, right? Whereas all of a sudden if I start to vary my rate of speech, the transition from slow to fast is what's hooking people.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So if you were to try to read that again now, but I want you to slow and some bits painfully slow down and play with your voice and then some bits go quicker and then the last bit, I'm going to kill you, slow it all the way down and be playful. It's not about...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I will find you. And I will die.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
you yes give him a big round of applause that was amazing right but again you feel so strange when you do it yeah i do yeah it's so fun to listen to and and again this is us practicing this is a safe environment i'm not don't do your next podcast like that but again it just goes to show the range that we have access to and how it changes the message in such a profound way it's the same words
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's the same words, but when you read it the first time, it didn't sound scary at all.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Prey versus Predator. Yeah. I remember listening to the episode, it was fantastic.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
There is. It's people who are confident take their time. What's that third one? Okay. Just read part of it. Read part of it. You're more than happy to freestyle. Read part of it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Now, the thing is, this next one is volume. Oh, shit. Yeah. Volume, so critical.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
For many different reasons. Volume is the lifeblood of your voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Volume carries all the other foundations you're about to learn. Volume carries the melody. Volume carries the rate of speech. It carries everything. And again, I think of it as having a scale from 1 to 10. And a lot of the times, like what you just did, people are around a three, a four, and they stay around there.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
When you use volume, there's two ways to auditorily highlight something with volume. Volume is fascinating because with weight of speech, you slow down. But with volume, to highlight something, you could go very quiet. Okay. So if all of a sudden I wanted to say something scary, I could lower my volume and say it. But then all of a sudden notice what happens if I just stay here now.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
What started as a great verbal highlight now just kind of seems, doesn't seem effective anymore. Because if you make something default, it becomes non-functional.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The lower scale. Okay. On volume.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because that's one of the default shy behaviors that a lot of people exhibit.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Where do they land on the scale? Depends if they're self-aware. Sometimes if they're not self-aware, they can be on the higher end. And that's, you know. You just have someone come across as a little arrogant sometimes. There's just too much volume. Because too much volume without the other foundations, now you come across arrogant.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So again, if I give this back to you, and again, just for fun, I want you to go loud. I want people to hear outside of this studio what we're doing. So just have a go. And give me a whisper too. At some point, give me a whisper too.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Honey, most people go through life speaking like this. I'm going to teach you how to speak like this. And that's, to me at the time, I remember thinking to myself, that is the greatest sales pitch I've ever heard in my life. Because I'm now going to sign up for 12 classes with you because you've just helped me realize something I've been struggling with my entire life.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Oh, it's amazing. What you just did made me feel. Why did I feel? What is a voice? A voice is a series of vibrations. So you just sent vibrations my way that made me feel. That's why we say people have good vibes, right? We understand it's happening, but we don't understand at that kind of frequency level, at the vibration level.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
But it's happening at a physical level, where depending on how you use your voice, you're genuinely moving people quite physically.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
What we're moving into now is the emotion that exists within your voice, tonality. This is the emotion that exists, right? So the way to add more emotion into your voice is to move your face. Because as I eloquently put it at times, your face is the remote control that allows you to add emotion into your voice. So let's play, right? So now I'll give you different faces to make.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'll tell you different faces to make and you make those different faces and allow those emotions to come through your voice. So if it's happy, then I want you to sound really happy. If it's sad, I want you to sound really sad. So we'll start with, and try your best to play with this. I want you to make disgust, like just disgust and let that come through and give me a more volume.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Give me disgust in three, two.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You know this already. In our brains, there's mirror neurons, right? And when I see you go through these different facial expressions, I feel what you feel. Even though I know this is a situation we've created here for us to experiment in. It's a safe environment. But every time you went through any of those emotions, I felt it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because I didn't just see it. Are men worse at this stuff? Yes. They are? Yes. Because I feel, well, for me, I can only speak personally for me, I was taught to keep my emotions on the inside.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I was taught that it's a sign of weakness to show you being sad, you being happy. You should just be... Composed. Composed at all times. And then that's what I thought. And that led me to the behavior of speaking. Whereas I would just always speak like this because I'm a man and I should always speak like this.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I haven't been thinking about my voice as an instrument. I thought it was a tool. What do you do with a hammer? You use a hammer. What do you do with a screwdriver? You use a screwdriver. What do you do with a piano? You play with it. What do you do with a violin? You play with it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I still remember going to one of the concerts and my wife turns up and she goes, how do you feel? I'm like, this is a really exciting concert. And she goes, well, okay, you obviously hate it. And I'm like, no, no, I love it. I love it. And I just, I didn't know how to emote. And again, I thought I was stuck like that because I was stuck like that for years.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And that damaged a lot of my relationships. Because here's the thing that I think, and it might be helpful for you too. When you're listening to someone talk, you don't have to react with sound because otherwise you'll be seen as interrupting the other person, right? You can react with facial expressions.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And that is one of the most powerful ways to show them you're listening and that you're following along. How cool is that? Because if someone's saying something really bad and you're like...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It doesn't just have to be curious.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because I see you do it. I see you consistently do the different faces to give me the cue to almost go, oh, he wants to elaborate. Oh, he's in.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Oh, I learned something. That's curiosity. Tell me more.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And she started to teach me that I have this instrument that depending on how I play it, it changes and shifts how others feel.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So emotion. And that was so beautiful to see you do that. Because it just, again, we just have such great range. And then imagine you start to vary your rate of speech now. You vary volume. You've got different melody. You've also got different facial expressions. This is such a rich experience. song that you're playing now.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It is. Because I believe stories are more sticky than me just throwing you a bunch of tips and hacks and tricks. Do you have a storytelling formula? I do. What is the storytelling formula? I think the way most people tell stories is they report stories. So I'll share a story with you, okay? And reporting a story is... Let's say you ask me the question. This is one of my favorite stories.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Let's say you ask me how I met my wife. Reporting a story... is just me saying, oh, I met my wife at a bar and I did some magic to her. She didn't like it and that was cool. And then I gradually was able to woo her in the end, but I met her at a bar. That's me reporting the story, right? It kind of sounds like a news reporter.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So if you think about it again, let me just anchor it with a news reporter. It's like a news reporter saying, Last night at a bar at 9pm, Vin Zhang went to a bar called Distil and tried to pick up a girl, did a cheesy magic trick. It didn't work, therefore he failed. He came back four times again and then he saw her and then he succeeded and now they're married. On to the next news, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So it's kind of very reporter-y. Matter of fact. Matter of fact. Whereas this is the story of how I met my wife. So I still remember this because... This happened in 2009. I crashed a girl's graduation party named Vivian. It was at a bar called Distil, this beautiful bar called Distil.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And there was two levels to this bar and the bottom was for everybody and on top was the high rollers and you had to buy expensive drinks to get to the top. And I got to the top and I saw this beautiful Malaysian girl sitting by the bar. So I said to my friends, I said, watch this. And I take a packet of cards out of my pants because I'm a magician.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So I walk up to her and I say, would you be impressed if I transformed this king of hearts into the queen of hearts like yourself? Disgusted. I know, you're making the disgusted face. And that's how she reacted. She looked at me as if she smelt a bloody fart. She looks at me and she goes, I'd be more impressed if you transformed into a real man who had a conversation with me. Boom. Boom.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I've never had that reaction before. Normally people say, wow, you're amazing. So I said to her, no, thanks. And I left, tail between my legs. The boys all teased me and everything. But I was so drawn. Her confidence, just, oh, there was something there. I went back to the bar four times in a row. She wasn't there. She wasn't there. She wasn't there. Then she was there.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I walked up to her the second time and I said, hey, listen, what if I transformed into a real man tonight, took you out for a coffee? And we fell in love. You know, and that's the story of how I met my wife. Whereas the way I would normally tell that story is just, oh, I met her at a bar, did some tricks, she didn't like it, and then that was fine.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
entire childhood. I was invisible. I wasn't the cool kid. I wasn't the good looking kid. I wasn't the charismatic kid. I wasn't the funny kid. I wasn't the anything kid. And by learning this skill, I've been able to negotiate an incredible reality. And that's why I love Tim Ferriss's quote so much, reality is negotiable. Cool. Well, what skill do we use to negotiate the reality we desire?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes, I wanted to make it visual. Well, okay, so here's the thing. When you think of the storytelling formula, if you just give the who, what, where and when, that's the basics people need. But what turns it from reporting to reliving... Because that's what you want to get to. You want to get to reliving a story is the ingredients that you just called out. It's so intuitive of you to call them out.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
VAKS, V-A-K-S, which stands for visual, auditory, kinesthetic, and smell. So I'm just describing those few things for you, right? And it doesn't always have to have all the ingredients, but you want to add some of those ingredients, right? So the visual I described to you, the visual, the auditory, what I said. I did my voice. I did her voice. I gave you dialogue, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So all of a sudden you bring the story to life. Now it goes from reporting to reliving. So if I told that story, and let's say that now the connection ability is again, it's to do with improv as well, is instead of just going out and saying, Here's three ways to show up authentically when you're trying to pick up someone. Instead of doing that, I share the story first. I get you to engage.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I build rapport. I build chemistry. Now you've heard the story. Now you have rapport with me. You feel more relaxed. You feel more creative, right? Then I link that story to, so the very next time you walk up to a girl, if she does say no, she may not be saying no to you. She may just be saying no to your approach. Here are the three ways you can show up more authentically as a man.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I believe that is a much more powerful way to then go into the three tips. Whereas I feel that because of the world now with social media, we've lost the art form of storytelling.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because I can share a story, but if I... One of our videos went viral and I don't claim to be an expert on social media, okay? So I don't, I still don't understand how some of these things work, even though we've been able to grow all of our social channels quite quickly. I don't understand how it works. To me, I'm like, oh, wow, I can't believe that worked last time. Oh, it doesn't work anymore.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Huh, that's weird. So to me, it's what people love is when you give them a really simple, pragmatic takeaway that they can go and actually do. Go do it now. Whereas we don't apply knowledge. We just keep consuming and go through knowledge acquisition. There's a cycle of doom that we go through. There's just this cycle of, I mean, this is the cycle my students go through. Oh, job promotion.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Oh, crap, I need to work on my communication skills. What's the first thing they do? They go to Google. And then they Google, how do I improve my interview skills, my communication skills? Then they get back 10.6 million results. They go, ah, this is too crazy. Surely someone's created a YouTube video. Then they go to YouTube. They type in how to improve communication skills.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
They get 3 million videos, right? And they go, ah, this is too, chat GPT. I'll go to chat GPT now. How to improve communication skills. And it gives you these generic answers from blogs that have no relevance to you. And then after that, you feel so overwhelmed. You do nothing with it. But it's just this cycle we all fall victim to over and over and over again.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
We just keep consuming knowledge and nothing actually changes because we're not applying it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Pick one and just try it. It's like we're going through all these different things. Right after this episode, go out and just try tonality with your kids and read them a children's book because those books are naturally emotive. And if you don't have kids, borrow a niece or a nephew and just watch the impact on the other human being as you play with your instrument. Watch them smile.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's our ability to communicate. Teaching that to others has been one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done. And I genuinely believe that makes the world a better place. And I almost sometimes feel like I'm just here to tune pianos. I'm here to help people tune and fix and learn how to play. And I get so much fulfillment from that. My parents have this fundamental belief.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Watch them giggle. Watch them react to the way you play your instrument because then it wakes you up to the fact that you've got access to this. And that I can change the way someone feels. What power? Yet we don't use it. I've just realised that there's one more left. There is one more left, yeah. OK, I know what this one is. Yeah, yeah, of course. If you didn't, I'd be quite deeply offended.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'll get you to read this and we'll play with the last one. OK.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Perfect. Now we're going to read it again, except the final foundation here with the voice is pause. Whatever emotion comes before the pause, once you pause, it intensifies that emotion. So if you've got the feeling of anger and you pause, oh, that is a pause of anger. But if all of a sudden I'm sad and then I pause, you prolong the sadness. It's a pause of sadness.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And think about how important the pause is in music. And I love the world of music. I love listening to orchestral music. And when you think about it, what happens right after a crescendo? It's a pause. Silence. The most important note that they play during that piece. Yet we barely use it. And what else does the pause do? When you pause, you give me time to process what you're saying.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yet we are so afraid of the pause.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Oh, beautiful. When you paused, you gave me time to process the weight of what you're saying. The first time you read it, you rushed through it, just like that nervous employee in front of their leaders who just rushed through it. You may have just shared the most brilliant plan for a marketing campaign, but because you rushed through it, I didn't feel the weight of how profound the strategy is.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And do you see what all these foundations do? What do they give you ultimately? Like what does it ultimately lead to? Clarity.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
There's sounds that people don't like. For example, have you ever called... I don't mean to pick on real estate agents, but it happens a lot to me in Australia. When you call a real estate agent, it's, hello, this is James from XY Real Estate. And when you hear that sequence of melody, no worries, I'll put you on to the next person, and you switch off.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You just go, oh, this person, I'm not really connected to that person. And all you have to do is you just tell them to switch the melody and just... Don't use that sing-song voice. And they call that a sing-song voice in the world of vocal training, right? You've got a sing-song voice. And if you keep following the same rhythm, you have a sing-song voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So instead of doing that, just go, hey, it's James. How can I help, mate? You said the same thing. You just switched up the melody. That sounds a little more sincere. Because it was a bit more varied. Exactly right. And it's not what everybody uses. Because once everybody uses the same thing, all of a sudden it now sounds like a script.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's so beautiful. They believe every child is born with a diamond, with a gift, with something in them. So I found one of my diamonds early on. It was magic, right? So I was really good at magic. They hoped it was medicine, accounting, you know, the Asian prophecy. So when I found that diamond being magic... I thought that all I had to do was get really good technically as a magician.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
That's why people are so afraid when they're creating content online. They go, I don't want to sound scripted. there's a sound to it. And it generally follows that. That's why newscasters, there's a sound to it. Last night at 9pm, there's that, there's a rhythm.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then they keep using the same rhythm over and over and over and over again, the same melody sequence over and over and over and over again.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Nothing. Give me nothing. And it's what happens when people, again, the people that I serve, it's what happens is because they go, I'll let my work speak for itself. And I say, that's great. That means you do great work, but why not speak for your work too? Why can't we do both?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah. And that happens too. That happens too, right? So to me, it's about helping those who... They've got something amazing. You've got a story you need to share. You've got an idea you need to pitch. You've got incredible technical skills that you've worked on for the last 15 years. And you're thinking, why am I still stuck in this position?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's, well, hey, let's do great work and let's allow ourselves to build the ability and grow the ability to shine.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
If you are problem unaware to communication and right now you just go, oh, this is something I need to work on, then this is the three-step process you have to commit to. And just by doing this, it's going to dramatically change the way you talk. It's going to dramatically change the way you show up. I call it record and review. And I learned this as a magician.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And it's so practical when it comes to magic and communication skills. First step, record a video of yourself speaking for five minutes. a full five minutes and people always immediately say, oh, what do I say though? Google or ChatGPT, great conversational starters, and then use those for yourself and just talk, but it has to be impromptu because I'm trying to tease out core behaviors.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I don't want you to give me a pitch that you've delivered 20 times already. I want you to just in the moment speak. I'm trying to tease out some non-functional behaviors. So once you've recorded that video of yourself for five minutes, leave it for a day. Video or just audio? Video. You want video, you want to be standing while you're doing this, okay?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Once you've got that video recorded, leave it for a day because when you watch it straight away, I'm fat, I'm ugly, I don't like myself, I hate the way I sound. You leave it for a day, you're thinner, you're better looking, you love yourself more. Time and space, it's amazing. So leave it for a day. Then when you watch it back, you review it in three different ways.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The first time, so you record on your phone, you turn the sound all the way up, press play, turn your phone over, just listen. Here you're doing an auditory review. And just listen to your voice. And now, because you've listened to this podcast, you also have five vocal foundations you can think about. So now auditorily, think about how's my rate of speech? How's my volume?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Oh, my default rate is around a three. Oh, I speak really, and I stick to that. Oh, my default volume is, oh my goodness, it's one. Oh, wow, there's no tonality. There's no emotion in my voice. There's no pitch for it. Oh, I am not pausing. You'll be able to take so many notes and you'll be able to hear things you've never been able to hear before because most people avoid filming themselves.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because that's what I was taught at university, being an accountant. Oh, if you become really technically proficient as an accountant, you'll become an amazing accountant. You'll be successful. You get the BMW. You get everything. Get partner. So I thought, OK, magic, same thing. Get really good technically. Spent thousands of hours in my bedroom by myself in front of a mirror practicing magic.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
because I hate the way I look and I hate the way I sound, right? So to me, once you do that, you'll have a page of notes and a whole new level of awareness on your auditory communication skills. So the next step is now you turn your phone back around, you turn the sound and put it on mute, you press play and you just look at yourself.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then as you're watching yourself, because most people don't do this, unless they're creators, you don't do this. That's why creators are such great communicators is because they do this. That's why you're a great listener and a podcaster because you watch yourself back.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So now as you just watch yourself back without the auditory feedback, all of a sudden now you'll see things you don't normally see. Oh, wow, I'm swiveling a lot on my chair. Oh, wow, I don't use my hand gestures. Oh, wow, I put my hands behind my back. Oh, this is my big tick. I keep touching my glass. I can't help it. Oh, I need to work on that. But you keep touching your glasses, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I keep touching my face. I keep touching my mouth. I keep fiddling with things. You'll see a whole bunch of non-functional behaviours that you've never seen before because you've avoided it and also because you have this idea in your head that you're stuck. You're not. It's just a series of behaviours, right? And then afterwards, the final form of review... Don't listen to it and don't watch it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Get it transcribed. Because now you'll see the way you communicate from a different perspective. And you go, oh my goodness, I ramble. I talked about the same thing over, because you see it from a different perspective. Sometimes you don't hear that. It's easier to see it. And then you see it and I can see you reacting, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
But that's what people do is they go, oh, not only do I ramble, because when you get it transcribed, leave in all of the non-words and the filler words. Non-words being the sounds we make to fill the silence. Filler words being the words we use to fill the silence. And so like, do you know what I mean? This transcription is immediately going to reveal to you all of your auditory clutter.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The things that you say, again, non-words and filler words, auditory clutter. That's the, again, the and so, like, do you know what I mean? Highlight it with a red highlighter because it might not just be those. One of my big ones was okay. I taught online.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
During COVID, as a result of that, because I didn't get the in-person feedback from my students, I would always say okay at the end of my sentences because I wasn't getting any feedback. So I say, that's the vocal foundations, okay? All right, now that's body language, okay, okay, okay? And I didn't even notice I was doing it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
But that process revealed to me immediately, oh, wow, I didn't know that. I was able to remove that because it didn't serve me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'll give you an example of it. You know, like if I, you know, was taking you through like the core, you know, vocal foundations, you know, like it decreases the clarity of the message. It's okay to have some, be human. I get it. It's not about none, but it's about having some and not have your speech littered with it. Is it easy to overcome that? Yeah, it is.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Got nowhere. Because I was missing an ingredient. Magicians call it showmanship. Fancy word for communication skills. We're both inspired by the same person, I believe. One of the people we're inspired by is Derren Brown. Impeccable showmanship. Impeccable technical skills. So when you pair technical skills with great communication skills, that's when you thrive, I believe.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because to get rid of that bad habit, you just need to learn a new habit. And the new habit is pause. So the very moment you feel like saying, um, we're not lagging, we're just pausing, right? You pause. And that's why as part of the vocal foundations, you have to learn to be comfortable with
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because normally what happens after you do that, and I know because my students have done it, and then what happens is overwhelm. Because they go, oh my goodness, there's like 26 things I have to improve. Which one do I pick? And then they'll have to DM me on social media. Which one do I pick? And then analysis paralysis. And to me is, it doesn't matter. Pick one.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So what you do is, you create yourself a little 12-week plan. And you plan it one week at a time. So first week, rate of speech. Great. So the whole week, you just look at rate of speech. At the end, what do you do that week? Record and review again. Did it change? No. Guess what you're doing next week? Rate of speech. And it's that commitment.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I love this Japanese word called kaizen, relentless improvement. And you all do this here amazingly. That's what you've got to commit to. And you focus on rate of speech until you see change. And I used to do coaching. I don't do it anymore because I've got two kids and they're the most important people to me right now.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
But I used to coach CEOs and they would see my plan to help them improve their communication skills and they'd get pissed off because they'd go – I'm just doing rate of speech. I'm like, yeah, because your default is so slow, you're putting everyone to sleep. And if you don't change it after week one or week two, I'm still going to get you to do the same thing.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And just by increasing rate of speech alone, they became so much more dynamic. It took a month.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
By being able to record yourself while you're in conversation with someone. And Zoom is amazing now. So all of a sudden now, if you want awareness on that, record yourself. And the beauty of recording yourself on something like Zoom is all of a sudden now, you can watch yourself and you see the other person too.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And you may not get reactions when people say things because most people, the only thing they'll give you feedback on with your community, this is the only feedback anybody will ever give you on your communication. I felt like you talked a bit too fast. They'll never say anything else because anything else is an attack on your personality, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So people are very afraid to give you feedback, right? Especially you being the big boss, no one's going to give you feedback, right? So all of a sudden now, or maybe they do. I feel like your team do. What I'm trying to get at is, All of a sudden now, when you watch yourself back on those videos, you now will see their facial reactions. People are very honest with their body language.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You've had body language experts on here. People might be able to lie with what they say, but all of a sudden, they tell the truth with their body language. You will see people do the silent yawn, right? You'll see people, they just do the silent yawn, right? They keep their mouth closed, but they're yawning. You will see these things if you start to reflect and review.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And you go, oh, I shouldn't have said that. I took too long. I lost them. You can see it. I do that with my classes. When I record, when I used to do my keynotes, I had a whole career as a keynote speaker.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because let's say, for example, you're technically brilliant, you're a 10 out of 10 technically, but you're 3 out of 10 with your communication skills. Do you think people perceive you to be a 10 out of 10 or a 3 out of 10? And you know this hearing so many different pitches. Some of the greatest ideas have flown under your radar without you noticing because the founder didn't do it justice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So when I did that, I used to duct tape two GoPros together and I'll duct tape the little red recording button so the audience doesn't know like that I'm recording myself and I'm also recording the audience only for my purpose, right? As I review my speeches. And I would watch back to back the audience faces and my keynote.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And you can see where you lose people because at a conference, their faces light up with their phone. You can literally see when you're losing them in the talk. And when you watch those back to back, it is so humbling because you go, wow, did I go on for, wow, I thought it was a fun tangent. It wasn't. And then I kept that tangent in for bloody six months because I thought it added so much value.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It did not add value. So the only way to get that awareness is you have to find opportunities where you can record yourself.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Just so overwhelming of how many people are suffering with not being able to communicate. They're asking, I'm introverted. Does that mean that I'm doomed? How do I become more confident? How do I speak on the spot? And we think there's no way for me to ever change this. It's super sad because I lived a massive part of my life like that. I was the awkward kid. I couldn't communicate with anyone.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it got pretty full on. Yes, have a way to calm your mind, calm your body and get really focused. And the way I do it is the first thing I would do is Wim Hof, the guided bubble breathing. 30 times and then hold your breath and then a deep breath in, hold for 15 and then release. Three cycles of that, oh, Stephen, my mind is relaxed, my body is relaxed.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then the next thing I do is I just do a little bit of brisk walking, do maybe 10, 20 pushups. Why? Because I'm getting rid of the adrenaline that's building up in my body. Because if you don't get rid of the adrenaline, you'll go on stage and you'll start pacing the stage. And I've seen speakers do this where they pace.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
There's no reason for their movement, but they're moving because there's so much adrenaline in me, right? Non-functional movement, non-functional. So get rid of the adrenaline. So a little bit of brisk exercise gets rid of that adrenaline that you don't need. So I do those two things. And depending on how nervous I am, I may have to do a mindset shift.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And the mindset shift is the only way you can become self-conscious and nervous is if you're thinking about yourself. So if you're not thinking about yourself, and you have no cognitive capacity to think by yourself, then how can you be nervous? So think of the audience, right? Before coming to this, I felt a bit nervous. I thought, you know what?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'm just going to think about Stephen and I'm going to think about his audience. How can I add the most value possible in this podcast as we talk? And the moment I thought about you and your audience, I don't have any cognitive capacity left to think about me. So when you kind of think about this act of service, it shifts where you are. You're not in your own body anymore.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You're not self-conscious. You're audience conscious.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So first thing is lip trills. Have you ever done lip trills before? No. Okay, lip trills are this. Perfect. And a lot of people won't be able to do that. So all you do is get your two index fingers, push your cheeks together, and you can go... Do your favorite song. So you think of your favorite song and you, you know... Final countdown. One of my favorites right now. Do that for an entire song.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So do that for your favorite song. And once you've done that, if you do that for two to three minutes, now all of a sudden your articulators have woken up. You've also woken up your vocal cords. And your lips now being the main articulators we use to shape the words that we say, it's awake. The siren technique is another great way to wake up your voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And you've done the siren technique, which is read low and then go high. Read low and then go high.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The importance there is both. Whereas I feel like we get stuck into this world where we think, oh, it's one or the other. And my students always ask me this, which one should I focus on? And I say, well, the reality is both. It's not as simple. It's both. Because if I have great showmanship and when it comes to doing sleight of hand, I suck. That's not going to work either.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Ah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You've got a picture there. I learned this from Mark Bowden. Mark Bowden is an incredible body language expert, and I was lucky to do some coaching with him when I lived in the US. And he taught me this concept of the area between your belly button and your eyes.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And that's the power sphere. So when you're gesturing to people, a lot of people who are shy, they gesture below the power sphere. Well, just like hands to the side. So again, they're doing all these different things, but they're doing this. Oh, hey, great to see you. Oh, I'm so excited to be here. It's great, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Okay. Scared to take up space, right? And again, I get a lot of my female students ask me this question. They say, oh, Vin, I feel like I don't have enough presence. And I get the feedback. I don't get executive presence. What is this elusive thing called executive presence? It's simple. It's two things. It's vocal presence and physical presence.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And how you use your hand gestures allows you to level up your physical presence. So if you've got better physical presence because you're using your hand gestures within the power sphere, all of a sudden you've got that executive presence that they're talking about. So you need to get your elbows off your sides. 100%, yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Again, I think of myself as having this sphere around me, the way that I remember Mark sharing this with me, and not be afraid to go to the edges of the sphere. Don't be afraid to go to the edges of the sphere. Otherwise, we tend to, a lot of people T-rex it, right? They T-rex it, right? Don't T-rex it. Just have your arms nice out and big. Don't be afraid to take up the space.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then there are foundational gestures you should learn paired with this. The first one, which you're doing already, this is Virginia Satir came up with these, and she was a family therapist, and she came up with the foundation to hand gestures. This is placata. Try. So you've got your hands, for people that can't see, you've got your hands... Palm face up. Palm face up and out. Placata.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Beautiful gesture to show that, hey, I have no weapons, I have nothing to attack you with, right? So this is placata. So you're showing your palms. Wonderful way to greet people as they come in. Instead of surrendering, just kind of hands up. Hey, great to see you. Okay. Beautiful. Great. However, it's closely related to its cousin, I don't know. Right? I don't know is this.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So again, it does lack authority. So if you want more authority, you use what's the second one called leveler. Leveler is hands facing down. So hands upon face down. Yes. Right? Feels a bit weird doing it sitting down, but this is leveler. Right? It's an element of control. Yeah. Well, the hands face down. Well, try this. Try this. Give this a go. Right?
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I'm saying this a lot to my daughter at the moment. She's very, one year old, very sweet, very naughty. So again, say melody don't do, say implicator, say melody stop doing that. So just try it. So we'll count you down in three, two, one. Melody, stop doing that. Perfect. Okay. You want to do the same thing now in leveler. Okay. So, and give me more volume in three, two. Melody, stop doing that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I didn't tell you what to really even do. Did you notice how your voice changed?
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And what changed with your body? What had changed with your vocal quality? Sorry. It went, the pitch went, okay, the pitch went down. Yes, correct. And I didn't tell you to do that.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Right. So all of a sudden... Because I was doing anger, a bit of frustration. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And no one told you to do that. That's a universal thing. What's fascinating about what just happened there is people are afraid of a monotone voice and they don't realize that a monotone voice comes from a monotone body. So you just moved your body from this to this and you created a different sound.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The people that I've been able to help the most in my career so far are the people who are technically so amazing at what they do. And they've been hidden away in the back office as a technician. And then bloody Brad always gets the promotion, right? Brad always gets it. Ah, damn it, Brad got it again. Brad's not smart as me. Brad is not as good as me, right? And it's because Brad talks better.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah. Because the voice is connected to the body, the body is connected to the voice. And the biggest mistake you see here within this realm here is... imagine you did a great keynote and at the end, imagine I did this. At the end of the keynote, imagine I did this. Right, are there any questions? Right? Versus, are there any questions?
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah. The next one is called blamer. Have a guess at what a blamer is. Pointing? Yes, correct. This is a blamer. A very strong gesture. And then a softer version of that is the full finger point. You point with all your fingers. Politicians get taught this. They soften it, soften it a bit, and then they soften it with their full finger point.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
They're pointing at me.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I know what you mean. It's like, yeah, some people have, you know, put on a bit of white. Oh, what? I didn't know that. Oh, my aunties do it all the time. Yeah. Again, it's just different ways to vary the way you look visually. That's Blamer. You've got a softer version. And then you've also got this wonderful one they call the computer.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And computer is a wonderful, an extra thing you can do when you're on a podcast and you experience or you hear heightened emotion. You can also respond with your face, but you can respond with your body too. You can kind of go into computer. And computer is just one arm under the armpit and the other one at your chin. You go, huh.
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One arm across and one arm... Yeah, and then... Some people call this the thinker pose, right? But you can go like this, you go... Combined with a head tilt, soften it, right? Straight up is a little bit straight, soften it and you're... Is that what a head tilt does? It softens? It just softens it. It's like... okay, I feel what you're going through.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And the reason they call it computer is I'm processing what you're saying. I'm leaning in. I'm showing you that I'm processing. As opposed to sometimes we're unaware, we don't move our face and we just sit there and they're talking and we're like this. And they don't know if you're there. The sensitivity is when you sense heightened emotion.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So if they start to get a bit frustrated, you go, you can show them with your body too. Beautiful pose. Then the final one is distractor, which is a pattern break. It's an auditory and visual pattern break. For example, if you're on stage and you're talking and you've gone on a tangent. I've done this. Maybe you've done it. And you realize the audience, they're all on their phones.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Instead of continuing, you can execute distractor and do distractor to get their attention back. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I've gone down that tangent. Let me bring you back. Let me use a different analogy. So auditory in that there's a clap involved. Visual in that I'm shooing bees. Imagine me shooing bees as I was doing that. So clap and shooing bees.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
There's an auditory and visual pattern break that now allows me to get your attention back. If you're doing this more than once in a presentation, you need to work on your rehearsal process. You need to work on you delivering the presentation in a way that's more coherent.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes, because you come to life. I'm coming to life visually. What we're seeing here is I'm coming to life vocally and visually. Here's where people get stuck again. They go, but that's not me. Yeah. Do you think right now I'm watching Beast Games and I'm loving it. It's just I'm so addicted to it. Jimmy's doing great. And do you think Jimmy talks like that in his everyday life?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
He's more visible in the work environment. You really think it often comes down to just how we speak and communicate? Our value, yes. Because if you can't communicate your value in a way that is clear and concise, people, it's not their responsibility to see the brilliance that exists within you. It's, I believe, your responsibility to learn how to shine your light brightly.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Do you think he goes home and he says to his partner, and next we're going to go to dinner. And for dinner you're going to have three choices. He doesn't talk like that. But he understands that in that context for that medium, the message I'm trying to communicate, I have to play my instrument differently to achieve the outcome that I desire.
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And you're going to have to do the same thing in your life. Whereas people are addicted to this idea of there's only one me. Do you know what's interesting?
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It's so much.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I share with them that... The idea of influence, you've got to understand that takes work. It's like saying, I want to become the best basketballer in the world, but that's too much work. So it's a deal.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's even more important online. Because the moment you sit in front of a camera and you're not a creator, what happens? The moment it's unnatural, what happens to you? Because it's weird sitting in front of a webcam. What happens to you, do you think? You lose yourself a little bit. Yes. Everything drops.
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It's why I flew here from Australia. Nothing will replace this. If we did this virtually, it's not the same. But when you have to do it virtually, you have to give more of yourself. If you want them to feel valued, you have to adopt a mindset of generosity. I'll explain. We often think of generosity as the first form of generosity, which is money, the easiest form of generosity to grasp.
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And then you think about it for a bit more. You go, oh, it's time. Oh, okay, cool. And then you think about it for more. Often people don't think about the third form of generosity, which is energy. That's what the third form is. Because right now with you, I'm being generous with my energy. I'm choosing to do this, Stephen.
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I'm choosing to do it because I want to connect with you, because I want to be able to share the knowledge and I want to be able to do this. Whereas there's a part of, again, there's a part of my brain that's like, oh man, you're jet lagged, you're tired, just back off a little bit. Who cares? All good. Whereas I'm now being generous with it. And online, you have to be so conscious of that.
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You have to be so much more generous with your energy. because naturally when you're sitting in front of a camera, you feel weird. And then all of a sudden, it's like my wife, when she watches me run my classes, she goes, I can't be in the same room because I feel like you're being too much. And I am.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because when I'm teaching my classes on like four or 500 people, I bring a much bigger version of myself to that class. I'm bringing a much bigger version than this. And then my poor wife sitting there, she goes, oh, is this overdoing But to every single student on that class with me virtually, oh, Vin, this is so engaging. It's so beautiful to see how much zest you have for what you do.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's super sad because I lived a massive part of my life like that. English is my third language. The first language I learned is a Chinese dialect. Not that impressive. My wife speaks five, but thank you. The first language I learned was a Chinese dialect called Tichu. It's a bit of Tichu for you. Second language I then had to learn fluently is Vietnamese.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And afterwards, I'm exhausted. But it's a choice I'm willing to make to be masterful with what I do in that moment. Now make sure your camera placement is well placed. A lot of people, when they appear on Zoom, all you see is their head. Now that makes you less visually dynamic. Whereas this is why you need the external mic. Push the laptop back. External camera, wider lens.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Let them see your whole torso. Yeah. I love this. This is so important. And I learned this from Vanessa Van Edwards, where you brought her on. Oh, yeah. Such a powerful concept where it's the idea of proxemics, where there's the study of distances. Most people, when they appear on Zoom, they appear in the intimate space.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And the intimate space is when your head is right next to your partner at night where you're doing pillow talk. And that's how you appear on Zoom. And when you appear that close, you feel self-conscious. Everybody else goes, oh, that's a bit...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So if you all of a sudden now learn to appear in the personal and social space, which means they can see your full torso, that people feel more comfortable. But now you also have access to your hand gestures. Light yourself well. And something very simple. If you're doing Zoom meetings all the time and it's critical for you in your work, then learn three-point lighting.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Right, three-point lighting. You've got that going on right here, right? And if you don't know what it is, if you just searched it, you'd find it. Which is essentially three-point lighting. You've got a key light, you've got a fuel light, and you've got a hair light behind you, right?
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Yes. Three key lights, essentially. Okay, fine. Again, they're technically cool. My videographers teach me all this where they say, oh, you need a key light, you've got to have a field light, then you've got to have a back light. At the moment I did that on my Zoom calls, I just looked different to every single other person who appeared on that Zoom call. Interesting. I'm just clearer.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'm crisper, right? And this is, again, if you want to take it to the next level. I want to take it to the next level. All right, then great. Then get a better quality camera too. Don't rely on the laptop camera.
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A lot of people do this who are creators. You just get a nicer webcam, minimum 1080p. So you look sharper, you look clearer and you're well lit. Okay. Now you look better. Done. Perfect. Get an external mic. Okay. Because if you spend all of your time working on all of these wonderful vocal foundations and you've got a shitty microphone and then you talk... Oh, you've lost there again.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And get fucking good Wi-Fi while you're at it. Yes, please. Oh, Australia needs to listen to this as well. Fibre optic. Yeah, 100%. And then all of a sudden now, so your visual looks good, auditory is looked after, and don't be afraid to bring a bigger version of yourself.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I remember experiencing a negative experience with accent. When I started to improve my articulation and I wanted to improve my pronunciation, everybody around me was saying, you're trying to be British. Oh, really? You're trying so hard to be British. I'm like, no, no, I'm just trying to improve my articulation. Right? I used to slur my words all the time. Being an Aussie, We use so much slang.
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Yeah, I was going up. I didn't want to. Right? And I could get that to a point where you won't even understand what I'm saying. Yeah, I was going up. I didn't want to. Yeah, nah. Didn't want to do it. Right? Whereas I didn't pronounce my T's. And then when I did pronounce my T's, instead of saying three, I would say free. Can I have free of those? And that's how I used to talk.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I didn't realize by talking like that, people were making judgments about my intelligence. And I was like, what? I didn't even know this. I didn't even know that this was happening. And all I was doing, and again, people tried to keep me the same because of identity. That's not how you should sound, Vin. The mold you are is you're a fob, mate. What are you doing?
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So I had to learn all these different languages growing up. These were my first two core languages that if I wasn't proficient in it, grammar would be pissed off. Mum would be pissed off. So we had to study it. And then I went to school and had to learn English. So I went to school... I was completely invisible. I couldn't communicate with any other kid. They couldn't communicate with me.
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Why are you trying to be this British Australian? And I just said to them, because when I speak like that, it creates the wrong perception in people's minds. And then they now look down on me as a result of that.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
We have that. I have a thought, though. My thought is, and this is what I believe, is that I don't believe accents are a problem. I believe articulation and pronunciation are. Why do you think people think people from the UK are smart? There's this perception of it. Don't you get that? Where you're sophisticated. James Bond. It's because you articulate extremely well.
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Especially the ones that make it to the movies. Right? The ones we see. It's because of that. And you can have that level of sophistication and intelligence and you can radiate that intelligence with any accent. I have students from India who, the moment they improve their articulation, it's beautiful. There's nothing wrong with your accent. For the longest time, they said, my accent is a problem.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I said, no, no, no, it's not a problem. The problem is, and here's where we go deep. Your whole life, you've learned the mouth movements to speak the Indian language. Then when you go speak the English language, you're now using Indian mouth movements to speak the English language, which are the wrong set of mouth movements to speak this particular language, but no one teaches us this.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I use the Vietnamese mouth movements to speak the English language, therefore accent and lack of clarity. So what did I have to do? Learn the set of English mouth movements. Completely changed me. And how did you do that? Speech pathologist. Oh, really? I had to go see a speech pathologist, yeah. I struggled with this, Stephen, my whole life.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
That's why when people look at me now, very easy to assume, oh, he's born with the gift of the gab. And the reality, I was born quite gabless. Yeah. And I share that because it is a skill that anybody can learn. When you say to me, you can't do this, you can't do that, to me, I hear, oh, Vin, I speak with my hands in my pockets and I'm stuck that way for the rest of my life. Take them out.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Take it out. It's just a behaviour.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So what do kids do? Oh, it's too hard. Oh, we just ignore you then. They bully you. Oh, yes. I didn't even know it was bullying because I couldn't understand them. I could kind of read what they seemed to mean, but I had no idea what they were saying. So I spent so much of my childhood, especially in those single digit years around five, six and seven.
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I don't want to lose that. I don't want to lose that connection. I want to lose that sound. It's why, again, most people don't change the way they sound throughout the entire course of their life.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
But when I look at some of the research, it shows that in terms of employment opportunities... I would love that study to be done in a way where the people who are speaking with accents have incredible articulation and pronunciation. as opposed to them speaking with poor articulation and pronunciation.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's like when I was, and it's one of those things where this is, it's super weird. I remember when I was becoming a professional speaker, some of my peers who were also Asian, I remember them saying to me, they said, hey, it's going to be really hard, man, right? Because that's for the Caucasian man with white hair, the game you're about to play. And at the time I had blonde hair, right?
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As an Asian guy. And they're like, there's this thing called a bamboo ceiling, Vin. And I was like, what the hell is a bamboo ceiling? I've never heard of this before. And he goes, oh, it's a ceiling specifically for Asians because it's a bamboo ceiling. It's a ceiling we can't get past. So we call it a bamboo ceiling, right? And again, it's real, right? For many. And I believed it to be real.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And for as long as I believed it to be real, I didn't try. I didn't try to go for those gigs with these big Fortune 500 companies. I didn't try because I was like, ah, there's a bamboo ceiling. I can't. And I remember this quote from Steve Martin that truly inspired me where it's, be so good they can't ignore you. And then there was a chapter while I was here. I said, you know what? Fuck it.
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There is no bamboo ceiling for me. I refuse to acknowledge that there is this damn thing. I'm just going to get so good at my damn craft. I'm going to get so good at being on stage. I'm going to duct tape bloody GoPros together and learn this game minute by minute. And I was able to soar in my career to a place where I never could go. And I had those limitations placed on me all my life.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
All these different labels placed on me all my life, Stephen. And when I choose to believe in them, they had so much power over me. And when I chose not to at times, some of them weren't even real. And I was creating myself by speaking about them all the time. And I couldn't believe where I was able to go with my speaking career.
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This is super sad, but I just spent a lot of time in the toilet because I didn't want to deal with the shame of being seen by myself. So I just hid. I just found a corner somewhere and no one. And then gradually I started to learn English. But even when I learned English, I sounded funny. Because I had an accent. So then they called me fob. F-O-B, fresh off the boat.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
the stages I was able to get on, these companies I was able to work. I said, is this even real? Do they know I'm from the northern suburbs of South Australia, Adelaide?
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah, my best friend says that all the time. He goes, it's the most hilarious thing in the world. And I hope that becomes a point of inspiration because that it doesn't matter if English is your only language, second, third, fourth, or fifth. These are just a series of behaviors that anybody can learn. And if this is what you want.
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yeah i actually had some of them reach out which was crazy it was crazy yeah well there was a there was a bully that stole a bike from me and broke my heart my mom and dad worked for months about to buy me that bike it was 280 australian dollars which was huge during the 90s it was an incredible bmx bike with stunt peaks and everything and a bully found out where i lived and stole it and reached out 25 years later to apologize
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I thought he was going to give me that fucking bike back, but he didn't. And what was crazy was it was so beautiful because of the good vibes I've been able to put out. He saw who I had become and I thought it was so man of him. I respected him so much for that. And I think a part of me needed it too. When he reached out, I said, hey, man, I'm so sorry.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I said, hey, I can't thank you enough for this. Because there's been pain in my heart that I haven't been able to resolve. And you've just resolved some of that for me when you apologised and said sorry. Because, again, it was just so meaningful to me, that bike. And, again, I was just so happy. I was so blown away that he apologised. It was really beautiful.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The simplest version of that for me is to use improvisation, yes and. And instead of disagreeing with you, I will humorously agree with you. And, again, I'm not sure this is the best thing in the world people should do, but I diffuse this very simply because I've had it happen to me all my life. They say to me, and it just doesn't give them a leg to stand on. They go, oh, you're an idiot.
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I'm like, yeah, I'm a bit clumsy at times. I know that. And they don't know where to go with that after that. They go, oh, yeah, and you're stupid. You go, you know what, I've done so many stupid things in my time as an entrepreneur. If you've seen some of it, oh, I hope you haven't seen all of it. What's the yes and technique?
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The yes and is just when you acknowledge what they're saying and you're just building on top of it, right? It's like, yes, and you're right. Sometimes I can be a bit of an idiot. It requires you to remove your ego, though. Because, again, and you have to be okay with that because we're all flawed human beings. Aren't you letting them win, though, in that situation? It depends on how you define win.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
To me, I'm just not going to be hooked into this. Whereas before, I would defend myself. I'd be like, oh... What have I done that made you think that? But I'm not interested. If you're not in the, I love this quote from Brene Brown where she says, it's I think from Theodore Roosevelt, if you're not in the arena with me, I'm not really that interested in your feedback.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And they just kept calling me, oh, there's the fob, there's the fob. Oh, he's so fobby. So then even though I learn the English language now, I'm scared to speak it because I don't want to sound like a fob. And there were all these challenges. So I know what it's like to feel invisible. I know what it's like to...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And the classic scenario is if you said something to them simple as, and I remember sharing this with one of my clients where I saw on their calls, when people were arguing with them about their prices, they would say, yes, but the reason we're more expensive is because we spend a lot more on R&D and we update our software all the time.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So all of a sudden when you say yes but, you're taking your conversation to a negative direction. But means whatever you say, I'm going to negate that and I'm going to give you my version of reality. Whereas when you say yes and, the same thing, you could critique them and say, oh, I think your services are too expensive.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes and, Stephen, the reason for that is because we invest heavily in research and development. So all of a sudden when you say yes and, you're taking it in a positive direction. You say yes but, you're taking it in a negative direction. One, we're going to build upon this and we'll work through this. One, I'm negating what you're saying.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I'm just going to share and force my version of my reality.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I moved schools so many times because I was bullied. But then I broke the mold. And then I just learned all these new behaviors. It just completely changed me. And anyone can do this in three to six months. And I'm going to teach you. So the first thing that really matters is a three-step process. I call it recording review.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Is even if you say something negative, it's all right. Even you say that your content sucks. Yes, and I know sometimes we put our content that just misses the mark. I'm human. And then there's no fire now because we're not creating the friction to create a fire. And I again take that path because... I'm just not interested in just arguing for blatant argument. I'm just not interested in that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It requires so much courage. I feel that starting a meaningful conversation requires a lot of courage.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I've got a favorite technique that I use. And it requires courage. So you have been warned. It requires courage. And it's a game, simple game, called High Low Buffalo. Hello, Buffalo. I love this game. Oh, you're not aware of this. Again, because you haven't played in the world of improv. Hello, Buffalo. High is something that's going great for you. Low, something that's not so great for you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Buffalo, something interesting about you. Now, there's a reason why this game is so great. It's great because if I play Hello, Buffalo and you play Hello, Buffalo, and we'll play it in a second. Are you game to play? Yeah. Okay. Then what we're doing is we're creating something called conversational threads. Let's play first. So do you want to go first or do you want me to go first? You go first.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Okay, sure. High. I'm doing the Diary of a CEO podcast. This is pretty awesome. So I love that about this. This is amazing for me. This is a big high for me. Low. I'm really struggling with what is enough in this chapter of my life and how much I should pursue building my business, how much I should grow it. I'm really struggling with that enough component.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And something interesting about me is I have three alpacas and I live on an acreage.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah, there you go. You're overthinking it. Don't overthink it. Give it a go.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
That's incredible. I didn't know you were going to do that. That's incredible. That's not as good as alpacas. And definitely wasn't as good as alpacas. However, that's great.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
When you have the courage to do this with someone now, I've given you three conversational threads that you can pull on. Do you say it to them that we're going to do Highlight Buffalo? I play this game with people I meet that I want to connect with.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
This is not if I'm on the bus and I'm talking to someone. Okay. No, because that's generally small talk. And if you don't want to connect with the person, it doesn't make sense.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Well, the game I just gave you is different. The game I gave you is a game that you play with a colleague you've been working with for the last four years, but you barely go beyond high.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Right? And we'll stick to that, and then I can share with you the other one. But to me, what's powerful about that game we just played is we all have people... The reason people hate their work so much is because they don't feel connected. And it's because they're not having conversations at work. It's because they don't feel a sense of connection with their team members.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'd say three to six months.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So to me, when you are courageous enough to play this game... Say you've been working with Susan for 12 months, and you always see each other in the lunchroom, but you never... You just sit down with Susan and go, Susan, I know this is a bit crazy. Listen to a guy named... Vin on Diary of a CEO.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
He said, if you want to connect with someone and you care about the connection, play a game called Highland Buffalo. Are you game? Play and just do what we just did. Because all of a sudden now, I've given you three threads, right? Excited to be here. Also struggling with enough. And then I also shared with you, I've got three alpacas, I live in an acreage.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
There are three things that you could choose from, what you're interested in asking me about. You just gave me three things. I'm also very conscious about health and I haven't been that great with it too. So all of a sudden we can, I've got three threads to choose from. What's the opposite of that? Did you watch the Mr. Beast? Oh, I haven't. Who's Mr. Beast? Oh, that's cool.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Or I'll see you in the meeting at two. I'll catch you then. No worries. Because you've taken your shot in the dark and you've given one thread and it just didn't hit. Whereas I'm giving myself three chances here. I'm giving three opportunities for a conversation to spark. But in actuality, there are six threads here because there's three from me, there's three from you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I've seen it. I've seen students do it. It's when instead of just thinking about I'm trying to learn a new habit, it's what James Clear says. You adopt a new identity. Where they adopt that new identity. Because one of the things I do is I share that story about my schooling experience at the beginning of my in-person classes. And I say, I want you all to imagine now you're at a new school.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because all of a sudden, that requires vulnerability. That requires something you're excited about. And it's also something interesting. I didn't know you were going for a marathon, man. That's awesome. You should sign up for it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
What's stopping you?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Much cheaper.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I tell my students three, two, one, which is three steps, two types, or the one thing. So just have that in the back of your head. There are three steps to something. There are two types of something, or the one thing is. So when someone's talking to you, you want to keep it fairly brief and you want to kind of minimize that small talk. And you know, you don't want to turn it into big talk.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
No one here in this room with us right now has any preconceived idea of who you are. Break the mould. Break it. And then you see grown adults do things they wouldn't normally do. Break out of the world. Play with their voice. Be a little silly. Reconnect with their inner child.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
They'll talk to you about something and you go, the one thing about building a personal brand is... X, Y, Z, or just X, right? So you get the one thing about personal branding, if I could share with you now, is the importance of being consistent. Hey, so good to meet you. Let's take a quick selfie. And then you go. So again, you have that framework in your head.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Whereas before, when people ask me, what should I do with my communication skills? I got stuck in the trap of, oh man, I've just heard you talk. There are so many things that I can tell you. I can tell you immediately now, there are eight things you probably should start focusing on in this sequence. But then now it turns into something I don't want it to be. So now I have that framework.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I just think, all right, so in response to this, can I go down the three steps to what they're saying, the two types of what they're saying, or the one thing about what they're saying is this?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You should. And these are important. And you can create your own. I mean, I love the what do you do in your free time. I really enjoy that question because it opens up so many doors to so many interesting things that people do, as opposed to them telling me what they do for a job. Because we've heard this many times before.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
When someone asks you what they do for a living, I'm trying to understand where you are in the status hierarchy. I love what do you do in your free time. I genuinely love that question. And have a list of three to four questions. Just have them in your back pocket. That framework of 3-2-1 though, that allows you to get out of that small talk in a brief manner.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
They ask you a question about personal branding. Oh, there's two types of personal branding. Oh, hey, the three steps to personal branding. Or hey, the one thing about personal branding is, hey, good luck. So good to see you. Let's take a quick selfie.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Do you know why it happens though? Why? because of low levels of physical and low levels of vocal presence. If I talk to you like this, and I'm going to share a really good idea with you, It's so easy to interrupt this person. So you have to fix that at a foundational level. You have to increase your vocal presence.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You have to increase your physical presence because it's infinitely harder to interrupt this version of Vin as opposed to the version of Vin you just experienced before. That's the first thing I would say. At a foundational level, that's what you want to fix. And again, that's to do with volume, that's to do with hand gestures, power sphere, all the things we've spoken about.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then in that moment, they fall so deeply in love with that version of them because of the reactions they've been able to get from all these strangers around them that they commit to it. It's when you experience that change in the moment, it usually leads to a fairly profound desire after that. Oh, I want to become this now. But then they make a big mistake.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And by levelling that up, it's much harder to interrupt this person.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's harder.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Whereas all of a sudden, people aren't aware of that and they think, oh, people interrupt me just because people are rude. No, no, it's because you haven't indicated that you're taking the floor right now. This is why I say to people who get interrupted all the time, all right, here's another simple strategy.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
If everyone's sitting around a team meeting, stand when you're about to deliver your point. Because when you stand, you now have more physical presence. So all of a sudden, people won't interrupt you as long as you're standing because I'm still talking. The biggest objection people have to the pause is they say, oh, but if I pause, people interrupt me. Not if you're standing.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
If you're standing and you pause, it's clearly a pause for effect. I'm still taking the floor. So there are so many other things you could do to prevent it from happening. You can even prime the conversation. If you know there's a serial interrupter, sorry, I do this sometimes. If there's a serial interrupter in your environment, and I was just pointing at myself there,
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I don't interrupt because I want to be a jerk. Sometimes I feel like, oh, I want to add value. And that's, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. That's what most of them want to do. But then there's the 1% that are just serial interrupters. I just always, I always, I want to take the floor. They don't respect you. They don't respect you. Yeah, I want that floor. Very difficult.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You have to have a private conversation with them outside. But to the 99% of people who are interrupting because they want to add value, you just need to prime the conversation. You just need to say, hey, look, to everyone in the team, I want to share my idea. If you give me five minutes at the end of it, I would love to ask for your input. But I'd love to share my idea completely and wholly.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Is that okay? And I just get them all to agree. And if they do butt in after I've said that, I can let them say the thing. I'll go, thanks, Stephen. I'm still sharing the idea. I'll come back to your question in a moment.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's one of the fastest ways to build rapport with someone. We learn about it through body language. I think a lot of people understand the concept of matching and mirroring when it comes to body language, right? If you come up to someone and you want to build rapport quickly and they've got big body language, if you do the same, then it will help them feel more connected to you, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
People rarely think about it with their voice. And that's the same thing. The years of going on stage and speaking, I've had so many people come up to me where imagine someone comes up to me and they're like, oh, hey, Vin, that was an amazing keynote. And I took that same energy of in on stage to go, oh, thank you so much for coming up. Hey, thank you. I appreciate it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You'd freak the hell out of them, right? So instead of that, I match and mirror their vocal foundations. I'm like, oh, hey, thank you so much for coming up. I know it's a bit scary to sometimes meet us, but when we fart, it still smells. Hey, thank you so much for coming up and connecting with me. The idea is you don't stay there though.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And the biggest mistake they make is they'll go home to their partner who has no context of the experience they've been through and they've just went, oh, I've been quiet with my voice my entire life. And they'll go home and they'll go, new me, new year, new me, honey. And then their partner goes, oh, why are you doing that with your voice? Oh, you learned that from Vin? That's gross.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You meet them where they are and then you take them to where you want to go. So I'm meeting them where they are so they're comfortable and we build rapport and connections. I'm like, oh, hey, so good to have you come up. Thank you so much. And, hey, if you took a moment for a second, what was your favourite part? What did you really connect with when you were talking to me?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So I met them where they are and then I slowly bring them to where I want to go. And it happens like magic where you will see them slowly come out of the show a little more. you've got to meet them where they are first.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes. F-O-R-D. We're talking about family, occupation, recreation, and dreams. And what's the context there? Well, these are the points of conversation that I could talk about if I wanted to engage with that person for a longer period of time. Instead of just thinking about what they do, that's what I always used to do. I always used to think about career, occupation. Oh, what do you do?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I tend to default to that when I was in the keynote speaking career. But then FORD is just a wonderful acronym to go, well, there's so many other things we could talk about. There's so many other things we could talk about, right? I could talk about family, recreation, occupation, and your dreams.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because that interaction feels different to every other one. Otherwise it always feels like occupation. It's always about occupation. I just love having extra things to be able to go to. Like the dreams, again, I love asking people that question. I love watching, there's a gentleman named Simon Squibb who's been able to own the brand of what is your dream, right? It's such a powerful question.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And it causes people to pause and think, and what is my dream? It sometimes can lead to pain, sometimes leads to wonderful conversations.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah. He is human. That's why Hilo Buffalo is so powerful. And that's why I say it requires courage. Because I know that the moment people heard me say that, they clenched their buttcheeks. They're like, oh, no, I don't really want to do that. But the moment you do it, it changes everything. It shows I'm human, shows I struggle, shows I've got things that aren't going that well.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
A motivational speaker from America coming to Australia doesn't work well. Because if they come to Australia, they're like, oh, get on your feet, let's start. Australians are very sceptical like those in the UK and we kind of sit back. We're like, yeah, nah, mate, we just started. We're not doing that just yet.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And that's why when American speakers come to Australia, they're like, oh, they're so – it takes them a long time to get into it because we're so sceptical in Australia too. I think we kept that as we went to Australia from the UK. And there's still that – so you've got to be sensitive to that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Why are you doing that? It's so fake. It's so inauthentic. And then they revert back to who they have always been their entire life.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And before you go and speak in a certain country, I think it's very important to go, right, what are the cultural norms? And expose yourself to the, I've made mistakes before. I've done the ultimate mistake. There's a bit in my keynote where I say, I told my dad I wanted to leave accounting and become a magician. And my dad said, what the hell? You want to be the Harry Potter, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So I play, right? I play a little bit with the voice. And then I went to Asia and I did the same accent and no one laughed. And I went, right.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
no sensitivity there i i didn't realize it that well i didn't find it funny because i like oh yeah ah i was sweating bullets and then they start to slowly realize oh he's taking the piss oh and then the audience turns against you i've done it wrong many times before i've done it wrong as many and again that's how you learn but people don't want to learn that way anymore they don't want to pay the price of failure that's the only way you learn
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Do you know why? No. It's because... When you hear your own voice, you're hearing the vibrations through bone and muscle tissue. You're hearing those vibrations. So they sound deeper, more resonant to you. So when you hear your voice, you're like, ooh, I sound like Barry White. So you think you have this deep, rich voice because you're hearing it through a different medium.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Whereas when you open your mouth and you speak to another person, the medium is not muscle and bone. It's through air. So it's less dense. So it sounds higher pitched. So one of the main reasons people hate it immediately is they go, oh, why do I sound like this? Whereas in actual reality, it's because it's going through a different medium. One's going through bone and one's going through muscle.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The other one's going through the air.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes. And that's what happens to everybody. And it's also the same thing with why people hate themselves on camera. It's because you see yourself in the mirror and you see yourself the way you see yourself in the mirror. Then you see yourself in camera and it's flipped the other way and you go, whoa, I don't look like that. Why does this part of my face look different?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Well, it's because that's what everybody else sees, but you've been looking at yourself in the mirror your entire life. You've been listening to yourself through bone tissue and muscle your entire life. So how do I overcome that? Desensitisation. You have to listen to yourself. Do you still care about your voice? Do you still listen to it? Yeah, you don't care anymore.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You love the sound of your voice now, don't you?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because you've desensitized. Because you're now hearing what other people hear. And again, that's why you should record videos of yourself. And I still think that record and review thing, if that's the one thing you do after this, if you pick three things to change after you do that process, it's going to radically shift the way you come across when you speak.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. With their children. This has been the coolest part because I'm a dad. I teach a concept called vocal foundations, which we can dive into later. And there's these beautiful five core vocal foundations that people can learn. And I love it when parents go through it because I always see these comments saying, where they said, oh, my goodness, just read to the kids.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Imagine you are only three changes away from completely transforming. That's all that it takes. I've seen my students do this time and time and time again. And I wish I was able to show you in these video examples when all of a sudden they just shift more melody, more volume, larger body language. It's a different human being. It's crazy. And again, I'm not saying be that all the time.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's now you having gears, right? It's like a car. Most people just one gear and I'll bring that one gear, that one communication style to every interaction. Why is it not effective? Do you think this whole introvert, extrovert thing is bullshit? I asked my vocal teacher this and I said, like, what's the difference?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's going to dramatically change the way you talk and the way you show up. But how do we start a conversation with another human being? I've got a simple game called Highlight Buffalo. And it gives you three opportunities for a conversation to spark. And we'll play it in a second. And then there's hand gestures to level up your physical presence.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And she asked me this question in return where she said, that pianist you saw at the concert I took you to, if they're an extrovert, how would it be different when they play the piano? And if they were an introvert, how would it be different? And I said, I have no idea. She goes, it's the same thing. Just you're playing your instrument.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The only difference between introvert and extrovert is an introvert, they lose energy from social interaction. So you have to be highly diligent when you're expending that energy and you're playing the music for people. You have to be extremely diligent. Whereas those who are extroverts, they can play it for a longer extended period of time.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
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So again, for an extrovert, it's just about choosing when you do that, choosing when you play beautifully as opposed to, oh, I'm an introvert. I should just talk like this then because I'm an introvert. He's like, what?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's the slow process of desensitization. It really is. I find it. Exposure therapy, yes. I find it, and I was that. I mean, the whole reason, the only reason I learned magic in my life was because I felt like I had no value. And I had to go learn a whole craft to have value so that I could be amazing because by myself, I'm not amazing.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
That's why I learned magic because I felt like I wasn't amazing. And then when I had this amazing thing, then everyone thought I was amazing. I was like, oh, I'm amazing now. But then one day I forgot my cards at school. And then all of a sudden I went home and I had some social interactions. I went, oh, I'm not amazing.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
What I'm trying to say here is instead of picking something like magic and then using that as a crutch, because I did, and then in every conversation with you, I would have to do magic with you first before I do anything else. Because if I didn't, I don't feel confident. Now I feel like I have nothing to give. So to me, this is why I push communication skills so much.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Let me share with you a story. Let me give you a little bit of context. When I was 13, I went to Year 8 camp, freshman camp. I had a really good friend at the time named Kevin. I saw him playing ukulele around the fire camp and for the first time I saw Kevin talk to girls.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Me and Kevin bonded over the fact we would never talk to girls because I couldn't do it, he couldn't do it, and we bonded over that. That night he broke that... that trust because he was talking to girls and he was playing his ukulele and he was amazing. And I felt so pissed off at him. I ran back to the cabin and the next morning I went, the only friend I have here is now talking to girls.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then the next morning I see him at the breakfast table by himself. I was like, what? This guy was the bee's knees last night and now he's by himself. What the freak? And I didn't understand that for the life of me. And then I experienced in my life with cards. When I have a packet of cards, I could talk to anyone. But then when I didn't have my cards, I couldn't talk to anyone.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I had crippling social anxiety. And I went, oh, this is what we call contextual confidence. Oh, interesting. So in certain contexts, I'm more confident. Even the people you're talking about who are anxious, there are certain contexts where they are contextually confident and they light up.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
They've never reacted to me in that way before. The moment, the one night I go home and I read to my kids and I do it in a boring way, they'll go, Dad, don't read it like that. Do it the fun way. And what they're asking for is they're asking for that vocal variety. They're asking for that inner child, for that playfulness.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
There's a certain topic that if someone talks about it, they might think of themselves as being a bad communicator. But because that topic comes up, they now are a great communicator. So then the idea of contextual confidence led me to really working out that communication skills is such a critical skill set. Why?
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because if I master the use of my voice, if I master the use of my body language, I master the ability to storytell, can I leave my voice at home? Can I leave my body language? Can I leave my ability to storytell and connect with other people at home? You can't. Now you have this ability that follows you everywhere you go, meaning you become contextually confident in every single area of your life.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Do you get tired when you go home? Yes, 100%. I can imagine because you are high energy. Because I choose to give.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'm consciously choosing to do that. And there are times when I choose not to. So that in the times where I do give, I can give you the best version of me. I didn't leave my... Our interview today was 4pm, right? I didn't leave the hotel room at all, all day.
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Because I'm conserving that energy for you.
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Yeah, you're welcome. And to the point where my videographer was asking me, he said, hey, dude, are you all right? And then he goes, look, just – I love him. He's so concerned about me. He goes, just wave to me outside of your window so I can see you. And I opened the door. I was like, oh, this door opens. And I waved. I was like, hey, Peter. And he was like, oh, cool, cool, cool.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because I didn't leave my hotel room, right? Because I was conscious of that. I was just conscious of that. I appreciate it. Thank you. That's all right. That's all right. I was already jet lagged. I didn't want to be shit.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
There's only so much of that you can do. And it is a limited supply. That's why it's so beautiful when someone is willing to sit and be present and play their instrument with you. Because it's a conscious thing. Whereas I used to approach every interaction with, oh, bring the bare minimum.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I didn't understand that that exchange of energy, you get so much more out of life when you give more, not just with money and time but with your energy. There's a transaction here that's happening that's invisible. And I treat like it's so weird and it doesn't happen because I have a lot of followers, lots of people don't know who I am. On the way here, I got upgraded.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
on my flight because I just built connection with the person. And I thought, you know what, this person has probably had a lot of boring conversations. I'm just going to make them laugh. So I just spoke, make them laugh, and they're like, oh. And it happens.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I feel like I've just found this cheat code in life where I keep my energy when I need it and when there are times I need it, I'll use the energy. Like a currency. Yeah, it is. And I didn't think they were going to give me an upgrade, but they did, which was so cool, right? And they felt good too.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I think that's one of the greatest, I think that's one of my greatest superpowers is the ability to be playful. and the willingness to be playful.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah, it's been really hard. Yeah. I mean, are you feeling this? Because as you build your personal brand, as this podcast reaches more people, as it is already, as it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, more and more and more opportunities come along, the momentum gets faster and faster and faster. It becomes harder now to steer.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
There's a part of me that is very ambitious. But my identity now has been upgraded. I'm not just entrepreneur, I'm dad. And there's a pull between the entrepreneur in me and the dad in me.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes. And they're both so strong. And I've never felt it this strong. My daughter's about to turn one. My son's seven, turning eight. And these forces now, Stephen, are so strong because my father was so good in my life. Such a pillar in my life that I used to be away 180 days a year, right? I missed out on so much of my son's upbringing. And I don't want to make that same mistake.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And again, I didn't realize there was this, I didn't see the correlation between success and sacrifice. I drank the Kool-Aid. I thought you can have everything. You can have everything. And I haven't found a way to do that because the more success I have, there's sacrifice that comes right behind it. And I just am learning what is the amount of sacrifice that I'm willing to have.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And it's so hard because the more I value being a father, the bigger these opportunities that come along as well. And then you're like, oh. So it's this constant push and pull.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Every six months I do a process called Recalibrate. And Recalibrate is a process I came up with one of my best friends and myself, Ali Torai. He's one of the founders of a company called Future Golf in Australia. And we go away for about half a week to a week and we get permission from our families. And we review and reflect on the last six months and how we've lived and the decisions we've made.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And we go through memorable moments and we'll go through down moments. And because we both journal, we can reflect back quite accurately on, oh, what made us feel shit in the last six months? And then we save ourselves from doing those same actions in the next six months. And then the things that made us feel good, we go, all right, those go into the more of category.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yes, there is an area. And the area is improv. Learn improvisation. People all want to get better at communication. Often it's because they want to get better at conversations. What is a game of conversation? What are we doing right now? What are we doing? This is a game of improv. I don't know what you're going to say. You don't know what I'm going to say.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So now how can we do more of those things that made us feel good? So the way I protect myself from that is by doing this process. But even then, the push and pull is, it's always ever present. That struggle is always there. What is your ambition? I told you about my two kids, right? I had very selfish ambitions early on in my career. Very ambitious. My own. Which was to make a lot of money.
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You know, to be able to do all these different things that I wanted to do in the material world and all of that. And then my son was born. And he was born in 2017. And we were in America and we were first time parents and we We didn't know what to expect. We didn't have many friends while we were here and we were super isolated. So we didn't have other kids around my son.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I still remember this trip I went on to Japan with my cousin and her husband. They're both psychologists. And we're one week into that trip. And I remember them saying, hey, we have something really important we need to talk to you about. And I was like, what the hell, guys? Why are you being all serious? What's going on? And they sat my wife and I down and they said,
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
we think Xander is autistic, my son. And at that point, because I thought it was because of me being away. I thought it was because, oh, because I'm away so much that you didn't want to connect with me. And they confirmed that they said all these things, eye contact, maybe he won't be verbal, maybe. It was one of the most difficult periods of my life.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then my wife leaned over and she said, do you think it's by chance that one of the greatest things that people who are on the spectrum struggle with, you're really great at? Do you think it's by chance that he came to us? And at that point, I was not teaching communication skills really yet. And it's almost a very selfish goal.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
But the reason I teach it is because I think you know that one of the main things that happens when you teach something, Stephen, is that you become better at it. You deepen your knowledge in that arena. You get better at teaching it. You get better and better and better at teaching it. A big part of my ambition in this chapter of life is to get so good at teaching this that I can help my son.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
talks, my son gives me eye contact. Just last year my son did the most amazing thing where I was teaching a class filled with hundreds of people and he just walks up on stage, grabs the mic and talks. and asks me, can I have this book, Dad? I'm like, yes, of course you can. He did something that scared every single person in that room and we didn't push him to do it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then based on what I say, you improvise and you say something. So even though I know you've never done improv before, you are amazing at improv. Because that's a skill you had to have developed to become the incredible podcaster that you are right now. So that to me is such an important skill when you're playing with your kids too. It helps you with all areas of life.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And how do we make that happen? He came to that theatre with me 30, 40 times. First time, you stand outside the theatre, you just listen to Dad's voice. Then you open the door, you stand in there and you can kind of see Dad from afar. Too much, okay, that's all right, you got overwhelmed, step back out.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And just step by step by step by step, my son was able to gradually walk on stage and do the thing he did. And I just went, wow, this is so cool. Because me teaching this, I've understood now, wow, I can break it down to micro steps for you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And selfishly, that's such a big part of my ambition right now is how can I get so good at teaching this that I can help my son overcome one of his most challenging difficulties that we experience in this life.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah, we sat around a kitchen table like this and they said, hey, we've got a big bombshell to drop on you and we want to become monks. We've been playing the money game. We've been playing the status game and we're suffering. We're suffering and we've been following Buddhism for years and we find so much peace in this pathway.
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Yeah. How? We would buy a new car because one of my uncles bought a new car. We'd buy a new house and a two-storey house because one of my uncles bought a two-storey house. And I watched my dad play this and I saw it and it got to the point where we got a jet ski and we didn't have a boat licence. So what are we doing with the jet ski?
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And it became this weird moment where I was like, oh, Dad, can we take it out? Oh, no, we can't because none of us have a boat licence. So dad had his own suffering in his life. He went from nothing in Australia to building incredible businesses with his brothers. They started one of South Australia's first grocery stores and then they went to buy pharmacies and restaurants and takeaway stores.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Commercial property, residential property. So they built all this up. And they'd fled from... They fled from war. So they started from nothing in Australia. And I watched them do that. The most memorable thing that led me to this path of entrepreneurship that I am in now is... I saw them. we would have three bedrooms in the house. One was for sleeping. The other two were sewing rooms.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then after you finish sewing all day, you go outside and you peel onions and you get paid 50 cents per bag of 20 kilo bag of onion that you peel. You get 50 cents for the whole bag peeled. And then after that, every part of our garden was dug up to grow vegetables that we'll sell for 10 cents a bunch at the local grocery store.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's the tide that lifts all boats. Because kids love to play. They'll say something like, oh, and then the cow now is an astronaut. And most parents will be like, ah, that's cool, honey, that's cool. No, play. Now it's also fighting zombies that exist on the moon and you didn't know about it. And you play with them. And when you're playing, what are you using?
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then after that as well, they would also cook these delicious things in Vietnamese called banh tec and then we would cook them and sell them for 50 cents each inside the house, right? And that's what we all do. So I watched them do that. to then buying a farm, to then realising that, oh, the farmers sell to an agent, the agent sells it to grocery stores. Oh, we should save up money.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Saved up for years, bought a grocery store. So then we became the farm, we became the grocery store. And I just watched him do all of these different things. And there were years where Dad was really happy, but then there were years that started to come where I saw him really empty.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And you're just going through the motions of doing things because I'm, you know, Uncle did it, so I guess I'll do it too. And that's what he meant by suffering is that they were playing that money game and they were playing that status game. And they felt there was an exhaustion to it. When we had that conversation, there was such exhaustion there.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I remember feeling it, which what made me think, because it goes on my head. I was thinking, oh, you just want to get a divorce. But when I felt the exhaustion of it, I went, oh, are you exhausted of each other? Or I went, well, wow, there's a game you're playing. You're so exhausted. And you found freedom because you're so excited for this other thing.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And this other thing was becoming a monk. Becoming a monk, renouncing. They renounced everything. Renounced everything.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then I became the person that then had to give some of the things that they needed. I think one of the greatest gifts that my parents have given me is not giving me an inheritance. It's one of the greatest things. At the time, I wanted to negotiate that so bad. I was like, 20%, can we just split it a little bit? But one of the greatest things they did, because that didn't kill my drive.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Was it a lot of stuff they had? Yeah, they had money.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah. And then I almost had it. Then there's a part where, and again, to be completely truthful with the journey, then I was like, oh, but then now I need to help you. And I had to because they had a vision and I wanted to help them. So I bought them a block of land to help them build a meditation center. And my dad was like, no, no, no, I just want the like just land.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then he had a shed there. And then he said, just whoever comes to help us put the shed together, that will be the meditation center. It doesn't need to be anything more than that. And then he had all these people in the Vietnamese community come along and... Which you paid around the back. No, I didn't. I didn't pay them. I didn't pay them. I didn't pay them.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I had to pay some diggers to come in to actually, you know, move the land in certain places, but I was happy to do that. And then I saw them build this beautiful little spot where it was filled with gardens, with vegetables and self-sufficient now. And people in the Vietnamese culture come to them because a lot of them are suffering from PTSD, but they don't acknowledge it. Where is this place?
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
In South Australia. We've got a little block of land and... Yeah, it's called Nang Mai. And then they just have people go there. Because my dad doesn't speak English that well. So he's got a bunch of people from the Vietnamese culture coming to him who are suffering from the war. And some of them have had children pass away.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You're using your ability to communicate.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then I see my dad bring someone who's, the craziest situation was when I saw him have someone lose a child, one of the greatest pains I think a human could ever know. And then walk in, in tears, dad speak to them, hold their hand, went for a walk. and then just took their hands, they started gardening.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I watched this ridiculous thing happen in front of me, where then he took them gardening, they planted a few things, they picked some fruit, they went in the kitchen, they cooked. And he just said to them at the end of the day, you did something amazing today.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You planted some fruit for those who you may not be around for, but when this tree grows, you've planted some beautiful fruit for someone to eat. You've done something really good today. And I watched him almost heal someone without saying much at all. And I said, Dad, how did you do that?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
He goes, because I just took them out of their head just for a moment into their hands to give them a moment of quiet. People know how to get out of their own troubles. Sometimes they just need a place to need some shade. Is he happy? I've never seen him happier. And I was the biggest sceptic because I thought, surely there's going to be a crack. And I was playing that sceptic.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I feel kind of bad playing that sceptic because for a period of my life I was like, Is this real? Like is it real or is this a phase? And as far as I can see, it's real. Good on him. And he's so free though. It's because he wakes up every morning. He has this incredible – he has no attachments. He's detached from everything.
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The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah, it's what brought me back home from the US. It's what brought me back. You told me a quote which I loved before we started recording. What was that quote? While I was in the US, he... he doesn't say much, my dad, right? Growing up, he supported through action a lot. And I remember when my mom called me and said, hey, your dad wants to talk to you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And this is when I was in the US and I was, oh man, I was so knee deep in the keynote speaking career. I was on the road 200 days a year and I was doing 80 speeches. It was such a addictive career because so financially rewarding, so fulfilling as well. And I loved performing and it was so amazing. And I couldn't get out of that world but I was so lonely here in the US. I was so miserable.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
But again, because you get paid more, you go, oh, one more year, one more year. Oh, honey, it's okay, we'll just do one more year. And my dad called and he just said a sentence that brought me home and the sentence was, and I'll preface this because he knows I love medieval movies. I love this kind of movies. And he said, a king that knows the limits to his desires will rule a lifetime.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I'd lost track of my desires at that point. What does he mean by that? You'll notice kings that want to continually conquer. I want to conquer more. I want to conquer more land. And gradually what happens to them is they die. They get killed. Whereas the kings that know the limits to their desires, they rule an entire lifetime. And that's what I really connected with.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And that's what brought me back and I walked away from a speaking career to go back to South Australia, Adelaide. I remember my agents in Australia said, can't you at least come back to Melbourne and Sydney? You're going to Adelaide? And to me, because I wanted to, the pendulum had swung so far one way that I reacted in that way and swung so back far the other way.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I learnt a lot going back because a lot of the beliefs that I had weren't real. I believed that I had to be here in Southern California to have this business that I wanted to build. To become the person you thought you were. I had that belief and that belief wasn't real.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
100% it's there. But my dad's voice is there though. My dad's voice is also there, which I'm grateful for. Because I made the mistake with my son already, Stephen. I was away so much. I was away so much. I don't want to make the same mistake with him ongoing. I wanted to recalibrate. Because here's what would normally happen to me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The most common message that we get when people type a comment and leave it on our videos is, is it possible for me to change the sound of my voice?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I would always achieve the goals of a previous version of me and then go, oh, I'm unhappy. Oh, it's because you achieved the goals of a previous version of you. I wasn't aligning the things that I was doing with the present version of me. Because I never took the time to sit still. That's why the recalibrate trips that I go on with my best mate, Ali, are so vital to me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because I'm learning how to take action that's more aligned with the present version of me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Starving for attention. And... Desperate. Felt really lonely. Because I moved schools so many times. Most people go to university with a group of strong friends. I went to five schools.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then a simple framework that helps build connection. There's so many other things we could talk about.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'd tell him not to be so attached to who you currently are. Stop being so attached to this identity that you've created. Not only are other people going to try to keep you inside this, you're the one that's keeping you inside this. You keep blaming other people saying that, oh, everyone's stopping me from becoming the person that I am. No, no, no, no. Listen, Vin, it's you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You're the one stopping you from becoming the future version of you. And the simple word would just be let go. Let go of that present version of you. I hung on to it. Why do we hang on to it? As much as my reality sucked in that moment, I felt safe. Familiar. Familiar. And it felt like home. Because what is home? Home is just the familiar.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Really?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Well, because you think about it, right? Nobody likes the sound of their own voice. The first time you heard yourself on a podcast, were you like, oh, no, or did you say, I love it, look how sexy I sound? No, when I was younger and I was cassette recorders and I heard my voice, I thought, fucking hell, who's that? Yeah, me too, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And the coolest thing about travelling, Stephen, is that as I travelled more, before, home, I would tell you, oh, home to me is Salisbury Downs. And then as I started to travel around my own city, I go, oh, no, home is Adelaide. Then I started to go camping. Oh, home is South Australia. As I traveled, oh, home is Australia. Then I started to live in America. Oh, home is America.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And then home gradually becomes the world. There's this beautiful concept where, again, I just kind of home to me is just a familiar. And at that point, my home was Salisbury Downs. My home was this such limited version of Vinn. And I was too afraid to venture out of Salisbury.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
One big thing is, so I've taught you all these different things you can do with your voice, all these different things you can play with your body language. And the big thing they're screaming at home is, they're screaming out, yeah, but if I did that tonight with my partner, they're gonna freak out. They're gonna go, what the hell is that? What are you doing, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So all of a sudden now there needs to be a process for that. So Vin, what is the process for that? Thank you for asking. And the process for that is you have to understand, first of all, I love this concept of neutral ears. And a neutral ear is someone who has no preconceived idea of how you sound or how you communicate. And there are neutral ears everywhere.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Before I met you, well, you've watched my content. But if I go out today and I go to get some gas or I go to the grocery store, there are neutral ears there. They don't have any preconceived ideas of how I sound, how I talk with my hands, whether or not I'm aware of the power sphere or not. You could go out in those instances and try out these new behaviors. Run it on some neutral ears.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So that is one of the biggest insecurities for most people when they first become problem aware with their communication skills is, oh, is it possible for me to change the sound of my voice? Is it possible? Is it possible? And when you reflect upon this, even when you reflect upon this, most people in their entire life will never change the way they sound.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I like that. run it on some neutral ears and then you can play. So if normally you speak very quietly, tonight when you go to the gas station, go in there with vibrant volume and go, hey, quick question before I go in. Do you have any chocolates with the peanuts? Yeah, yeah, you do. I'm going to come in. I'm coming in for them. Play, just do it, right? And just do it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Sometimes one look can put you back in your mould. Whereas when you do it with neutral ears and when you try new behaviors with no negative judgment, you know what it does? It helps those behaviors stick a little bit more.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because it helps you feel normal doing it. And then you have a chance now to play and be vulnerable. Look for neutral ears. I'd set people KPIs. Every single day and every single day set yourself a KPI. Maybe go to a gas station a little further from your house. And play with your voice. Play with your body language. Be a bigger version of you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And as you do this more and more and more, you iron out the kinks. You'll do it. You'll feel wrong. That's okay. I'm going to try it again. Oh, that felt right. And then you start to finesse. Because the first time someone plays the saxophone, it sounds terrible. But as they play it more and more and more and more, oh, they get better and better and better and better.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So neutral is very important, okay? So that's a process. Then if you want your partner to be supportive, then you have to prime the conversation when you go home. So don't immediately come home as this other version of you. Come home and prime it by saying, look, honey, I've been very quiet with my voice my entire life. And I just feel inspired to give you and the kids more of me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
So if you see me play with my volume, if you see me play with my melody, could you please encourage me and support me on this journey? Because I want to be better. And do it with me? Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. Yes. And maybe we can do it together. All of a sudden now, this shifts the way they see the change. You can do this with your colleagues as well.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
That in the world we live right now, you can negotiate whatever reality you desire. Right now, in my own mind, I just have that belief and that belief has served me my entire life. And I have this voice in my head where it says, oh, when you die and there's a greater being, they're going to go, oh, you're wrong. You're wrong in telling people that you can negotiate whatever reality you desire.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It's not true. And let's say that happens and I meet the creator and he says that to me. I'd still be glad I lived my life in that way. I'd still be glad I lived my life in that exact way.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Even if you're wrong.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah. Because I believe there are useful beliefs and then there are useless beliefs. I used to carry so many useless beliefs, Stephen. So many. And now I just choose to believe in beliefs that support me in being able to create the reality that I desire. It's that even if I'm wrong, I still am glad I lived my life in this way.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Because there's a part of my brain right now that genuinely believes this. That there'll be a day when I will be bored with this chapter of life and no longer want to teach communication skills. I just hope that I have the courage. But I know that I'll be able to live a chapter where I become a chef. I love cooking.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
They'll never change the way they communicate. They'll change the way they dress. They'll change their hair. They'll change their glasses. They'll change all these things about themselves. But the way they communicate and the way they sound stays consistent generally. It's because there are a lot of psychological blocks that keep us sounding the same. We keep ourselves sounding the same.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And I know it to be true that if I wanted that and I'm ready for that chapter, I can write a chapter where I become a great chef.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And there's a word that I call my students. Maybe we can end on this. And the word I call them is luminaries. Because I call all of my programs stage, right? Stage. And they go, why do you call it stage? And I go, oh, it's stage because of Shakespeare's quote, all of life is a stage. All the world's a stage.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And to me it's true because when I wake up in the morning, the first stage I step on is the stage of fatherhood. And how I show up on that stage matters. And then the second stage I step onto is the stage of being a husband. My wife loves it when I make her the coffee. Even though it's terrible, she likes it when I make it. And then there's something there.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
But then the next stage I walk into is I walk into the studio and I'm stepping onto the stage as a teacher. I'm teaching people now. And in this life you will step onto many different stages playing many different roles. And if you learn how to communicate and play your instrument, you can show up as your best. And then I call them luminary. Why? Double meaning word.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Part of it means actor or actress, but it's not about that. It's about you're a source of light. So when you learn how to use your instrument and you show up on stage with the role that you're playing, play songs of love, kindness and compassion. Play songs that spread goodness everywhere.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
If you feel good while you're listening to this, it's because of the way potentially I've played my instrument. And I hope that you'll step onto your stage and the role that you're currently playing and play with your instrument as a luminary to spread more love, kindness and compassion. Amen.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
I'll share with you a few of these, okay? With my vocal teacher, at the beginning of my journey, when she got me to do things with my voice where she said, all right, let's do a really high voice. Have a bit of a play, Vin. And, you know, go into falsetto. And she would make me do things like this. I'd go red. Because I'd go, oh, that feels so weird. Oh, now I'm becoming so deep with my voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Thank you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
This feels so fake and it feels phony. I immediately came up with those objections, as I'm sure you would feel that too if I got you to do that, right? And when I do it with my students, that's the immediate thing that comes up. They go, it's fake, it's phony. That's not me. And then now, just like my vocal teacher, she would always challenge me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
She goes, well, if you could make the sound and you played the key on your piano, you describe to me then, how is it fake? How is it fake? If you are able to make that sound, that is you. That is your instrument. That is just you playing with keys you're unfamiliar with. That's it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
You've gone through this entire life being so familiar with this key that any time you pressed any other key, you go, oh, it's not me. No, no, no. You're just familiar with this key and you're unfamiliar with the others. That alone helped me understand that, oh, wow, it's not fake. Because for the longest time, I thought it was fake.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
And because I thought it was fake, I never changed the way I taught.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
It goes deeper than that. It goes even deeper than that. Because where did you get your voice from? Who did you learn it from? There's an idea that people have in their minds about this thing called a natural voice. This is another objection my students give me. They go, oh, that's not my natural voice. And speech pathologists will tell you this.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
The voice you have right now is not your natural voice. You lost access to your natural voice when you were two or three. Question, if I asked you to scream at the top of your lungs right now for about 10 minutes, what would happen to your voice?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Public Speaking Expert: This Speaking Mistake Makes People Ignore You! These Small Mistakes Make You Unlikeable!
Yeah. My daughter, 12 months old, can scream for three hours, Stephen, and she does not lose her voice because they have this beautiful access to their instrument. They can naturally access that instrument. Whereas as we grow older, at the age of three or four, we start to be inspired by certain people in our circles. As a result of being inspired by people, what do kids do?