Viktor Orban

The German economy is part of the European bomb because we have the single market. And the single market as such is in trouble. I'm in international politics for more than 30 years. And I do remember then 30 years ago, the biggest economy of the world was the European Union. And now it's only number three. And if you look at the top five economies of the world, there is no European among them.

The German economy is part of the European bomb because we have the single market. And the single market as such is in trouble. I'm in international politics for more than 30 years. And I do remember then 30 years ago, the biggest economy of the world was the European Union. And now it's only number three. And if you look at the top five economies of the world, there is no European among them.

So European Union, economically, it's not a success story. And the success of European Union will always strongly link to the success of German economy. And now they are suffering and we are suffering. And the reason is very simple. There was a well-functioning, quite well-functioning structural model of the German economy and the European economy.

So European Union, economically, it's not a success story. And the success of European Union will always strongly link to the success of German economy. And now they are suffering and we are suffering. And the reason is very simple. There was a well-functioning, quite well-functioning structural model of the German economy and the European economy.

That was cheap Russian energy and well-advanced European technology come together and we are competitive. But now after the war, we isolated ourselves from the cheap energy, and there is no new strategy how we could be competitive. So we have a lost strategy, but we don't have a new one. There's no replacement for the old one. So now the problem is that we don't have compass where we should move.

That was cheap Russian energy and well-advanced European technology come together and we are competitive. But now after the war, we isolated ourselves from the cheap energy, and there is no new strategy how we could be competitive. So we have a lost strategy, but we don't have a new one. There's no replacement for the old one. So now the problem is that we don't have compass where we should move.

So we are just managing the daily work, but there is no real strategy what is the future of the European economy. No answer of that. That's the reason why China, United States, because President Trump is back, obviously is in a far better position than we are. Lack of leadership, lack of ideas, lack of visions. That's why we suffer.

So we are just managing the daily work, but there is no real strategy what is the future of the European economy. No answer of that. That's the reason why China, United States, because President Trump is back, obviously is in a far better position than we are. Lack of leadership, lack of ideas, lack of visions. That's why we suffer.

Hungary is a small country. Ten million. Elephants is a different game. It's another league. That's how they live. If it would have happened with Hungary, there would be some noise, no question of that. But, you know, it's Germany.

Hungary is a small country. Ten million. Elephants is a different game. It's another league. That's how they live. If it would have happened with Hungary, there would be some noise, no question of that. But, you know, it's Germany.

So everything which is unorthodox in the mind of the liberals. So we were a kind of hero. We were a kind of island of difference in the liberal ocean. But now, unfortunately... Donald Trump taking over everything. So, yeah, just sitting and try to follow him now. This is a totally new reality.

So everything which is unorthodox in the mind of the liberals. So we were a kind of hero. We were a kind of island of difference in the liberal ocean. But now, unfortunately... Donald Trump taking over everything. So, yeah, just sitting and try to follow him now. This is a totally new reality.

So I think the basic reason is that in the last several decades, there was a strong alliance between the American liberal elite and the European liberal elite. And they agree always what is the issue and what is not the issue. If they decided that something is not an issue, it was not an issue. And the Germans were part of that kind of alliance. transatlantic liberal alliance.

So I think the basic reason is that in the last several decades, there was a strong alliance between the American liberal elite and the European liberal elite. And they agree always what is the issue and what is not the issue. If they decided that something is not an issue, it was not an issue. And the Germans were part of that kind of alliance. transatlantic liberal alliance.

And they were managed to stop all the voices which tried to raise the question, which is a serious one anyway. But anyway, it's not the only one. I do remember some other scandals as well. Beginning of the previous decade, it turned out that the United States, democratic government anyway, taped the Chancellor of Germany. And we were discussing it at the European Council meeting.

And they were managed to stop all the voices which tried to raise the question, which is a serious one anyway. But anyway, it's not the only one. I do remember some other scandals as well. Beginning of the previous decade, it turned out that the United States, democratic government anyway, taped the Chancellor of Germany. And we were discussing it at the European Council meeting.

Sarkozy, who was the president of France at that time, said, guys, what a scandalous thing is that? We have to do that. The Germans said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Transatlantic creation is the most important thing we have to manage, not in that way, and so on. So that's an alliance between the transatlantic elites from America and the European Union.

Sarkozy, who was the president of France at that time, said, guys, what a scandalous thing is that? We have to do that. The Germans said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Transatlantic creation is the most important thing we have to manage, not in that way, and so on. So that's an alliance between the transatlantic elites from America and the European Union.

So probably that was your sentence, not mine. If a country is not ready to stand up and fight for himself, it does not deserve any help from outside.

So probably that was your sentence, not mine. If a country is not ready to stand up and fight for himself, it does not deserve any help from outside.

I think the approach of the new incumbent administration of the United States has a very special approach to the other economies. And this is based on facts and figures and concentrates on trade balances. And as far as I was able to understand the way of thinking of this new administration in your country, they see a triangle, Europe, China, United States. And they have a look at the figures.

I think the approach of the new incumbent administration of the United States has a very special approach to the other economies. And this is based on facts and figures and concentrates on trade balances. And as far as I was able to understand the way of thinking of this new administration in your country, they see a triangle, Europe, China, United States. And they have a look at the figures.

And Europe make plus 200 billion of trade with United States. We lose the same sum to China. So it's basically Europe is zero. And European Union make... 200 billion euro plus the trade with you, United States, and you lose to China 300. So it means that Europe is basically a zero, China plus 500 billion, United States minus 500 billion. And as your president said, it's not good, it's bad.

And Europe make plus 200 billion of trade with United States. We lose the same sum to China. So it's basically Europe is zero. And European Union make... 200 billion euro plus the trade with you, United States, and you lose to China 300. So it means that Europe is basically a zero, China plus 500 billion, United States minus 500 billion. And as your president said, it's not good, it's bad.

And that's, may I say, very much helpful to Hungary because, you know, I try to make some jokes on how the last 15 years was, but it was serious. So when you have one boot from United States on your chest and one from Brussels, European Union, trying to kill you and to deliver evidences that that way of government and governance cannot work, it's difficult to survive.

And that's, may I say, very much helpful to Hungary because, you know, I try to make some jokes on how the last 15 years was, but it was serious. So when you have one boot from United States on your chest and one from Brussels, European Union, trying to kill you and to deliver evidences that that way of government and governance cannot work, it's difficult to survive.

So something should be done. And he will do something. He is not, probably the new administration is not thinking about geopolitical concepts of economy, but you know, figures, facts. And they would like to do something to improve the trade balance. And that's a challenge for Europe. So it's a serious matter. It's not about friendship. It's not about, you know, love each other, brother in arms.

So something should be done. And he will do something. He is not, probably the new administration is not thinking about geopolitical concepts of economy, but you know, figures, facts. And they would like to do something to improve the trade balance. And that's a challenge for Europe. So it's a serious matter. It's not about friendship. It's not about, you know, love each other, brother in arms.

That's very nice, but it's money. It's figures. So we have to find a solution and to make a deal with the United States. If Europeans are just sitting and waiting... That's not a good strategy. We should come up with a strategy and to provide something, a deal, proposals to the United States to how to reshape that kind of imbalanced trade relationship.

That's very nice, but it's money. It's figures. So we have to find a solution and to make a deal with the United States. If Europeans are just sitting and waiting... That's not a good strategy. We should come up with a strategy and to provide something, a deal, proposals to the United States to how to reshape that kind of imbalanced trade relationship.

Otherwise, we will get tariffs and we will suffer. We are not strong enough to defend our interest after waiting and losing weeks and months. But the problem is that Europe now leads by bureaucrats. You know, we have the European Commission. Do you know what is it? The Commission is a bureaucratic body which originally was planned to be the guardian of the treaty.

Otherwise, we will get tariffs and we will suffer. We are not strong enough to defend our interest after waiting and losing weeks and months. But the problem is that Europe now leads by bureaucrats. You know, we have the European Commission. Do you know what is it? The Commission is a bureaucratic body which originally was planned to be the guardian of the treaty.

you know, so just to help to maintain the fair legal regulation inside the single market area. But now the bureaucrats are more than 30,000, you know, they're growing, growing, growing, and they took away the leadership from the real prime ministers of Europe. So now the Commission tries to lead the European Union, but they are bureaucrats.

you know, so just to help to maintain the fair legal regulation inside the single market area. But now the bureaucrats are more than 30,000, you know, they're growing, growing, growing, and they took away the leadership from the real prime ministers of Europe. So now the Commission tries to lead the European Union, but they are bureaucrats.

And we have the leadership program because bureaucrats cannot lead anything politically. When everything is going well, bureaucrats are not harmful because things are going well. But when there are difficulties and decisions must be made, like now we should make an offer to the United States, the bureaucrats will never do that because they are bureaucrats.

And we have the leadership program because bureaucrats cannot lead anything politically. When everything is going well, bureaucrats are not harmful because things are going well. But when there are difficulties and decisions must be made, like now we should make an offer to the United States, the bureaucrats will never do that because they are bureaucrats.

Bureaucrats are interested in status quo, not to provide political leadership for your community. So that's another problem inside the European Union. But I would not like to speak too much about other countries because my job is to preserve the sovereignty and good chances for the future of my own nation.

Bureaucrats are interested in status quo, not to provide political leadership for your community. So that's another problem inside the European Union. But I would not like to speak too much about other countries because my job is to preserve the sovereignty and good chances for the future of my own nation.

So what I am doing now, I try to find a way how we can have a good relation with United States to make some deals on economy as much as big as we can. We are working on that and try to create an economic policy which make Hungary successful even if the European Union exists or European Union does not exist. The problem is to be sharp.

So what I am doing now, I try to find a way how we can have a good relation with United States to make some deals on economy as much as big as we can. We are working on that and try to create an economic policy which make Hungary successful even if the European Union exists or European Union does not exist. The problem is to be sharp.

We have not more than three, four years and if we don't do something dramatically different strategy, the European Union will fall apart. So there is a famous study published in Western Europe called Draghi Report. Draghi was the previous head of the European Bank and previously prime minister of Italy. And he put together a study. And the study is very clear.

We have not more than three, four years and if we don't do something dramatically different strategy, the European Union will fall apart. So there is a famous study published in Western Europe called Draghi Report. Draghi was the previous head of the European Bank and previously prime minister of Italy. And he put together a study. And the study is very clear.

If you don't do something in three years' time to push down the price of the energy and to make Europe competitive, especially by creating a capital market at the European Union level, the European Union economy is over. So now we pay three, four times higher price for the electricity than you do it in the United States, and five, six times higher price for gas than you do in United States.

If you don't do something in three years' time to push down the price of the energy and to make Europe competitive, especially by creating a capital market at the European Union level, the European Union economy is over. So now we pay three, four times higher price for the electricity than you do it in the United States, and five, six times higher price for gas than you do in United States.

How our companies can be competitive? It's impossible. And then you run a policy, and Donald Trump president will do so even more, to attract the capitals from all over the world to the United States. So the capital we move out from Europe to United States and to other places as well.

How our companies can be competitive? It's impossible. And then you run a policy, and Donald Trump president will do so even more, to attract the capitals from all over the world to the United States. So the capital we move out from Europe to United States and to other places as well.

So now we remember back in a happy way, but that was very serious. So now at least one boost is out. The Americans not anymore on our chest, not kneeling on our chest. So it's an appeasement. So we think that life is happy and it will be even happier when we swept away the Brazilian bureaucrats and the other boost is down. That's the plan.

So now we remember back in a happy way, but that was very serious. So now at least one boost is out. The Americans not anymore on our chest, not kneeling on our chest. So it's an appeasement. So we think that life is happy and it will be even happier when we swept away the Brazilian bureaucrats and the other boost is down. That's the plan.

So we have to do something to keep the capital inside the European Union, but we don't have a strategy how to do it. So now the European Union is really at a watershed. But you have ended global warming.

So we have to do something to keep the capital inside the European Union, but we don't have a strategy how to do it. So now the European Union is really at a watershed. But you have ended global warming.

Hungary has a nice climate. But taking seriously the global responsibility, of course, but the problem is not the global climate issue. The problem is that if you would like to find a solution for a global issue like climate issue, you can't do it against the business community.

Hungary has a nice climate. But taking seriously the global responsibility, of course, but the problem is not the global climate issue. The problem is that if you would like to find a solution for a global issue like climate issue, you can't do it against the business community.

So if you don't convince the business community that they could be part of this whole process, involvement again, to involve them into that policy. If you don't do that, but ideologically-led political movement, green movement, you do like that, it's hopeless. It will be not successful. Look at the Green Deal. Green Deal is dead. It's a suicide attempt for the European Union.

So if you don't convince the business community that they could be part of this whole process, involvement again, to involve them into that policy. If you don't do that, but ideologically-led political movement, green movement, you do like that, it's hopeless. It will be not successful. Look at the Green Deal. Green Deal is dead. It's a suicide attempt for the European Union.

Nobody is sharing of that. We do it and we kill our industry. So if you would like to have a good green policy, you need the business, the business leaders, and the common strategy. That's the only way. Otherwise, we end up as we are today.

Nobody is sharing of that. We do it and we kill our industry. So if you would like to have a good green policy, you need the business, the business leaders, and the common strategy. That's the only way. Otherwise, we end up as we are today.

And the problem is that the European institutions cannot reform it, cannot provide leadership because it's a strange creature of the European Union. So the only possibility to have a leadership if the French and the German government is strong, stable, visionary, and take the lead. Right. which is not the case at this moment.

And the problem is that the European institutions cannot reform it, cannot provide leadership because it's a strange creature of the European Union. So the only possibility to have a leadership if the French and the German government is strong, stable, visionary, and take the lead. Right. which is not the case at this moment.

So we have a strategy anyway. Hungary, that's my job anyway. We have a strategy, of course. And Central European leaders have their own strategy. So our main criticism to the European Union at this moment, that they launch wars with everybody who could be important partners for your economy. We launch a war on ideology, Donald Trump, President Donald Trump.

So we have a strategy anyway. Hungary, that's my job anyway. We have a strategy, of course. And Central European leaders have their own strategy. So our main criticism to the European Union at this moment, that they launch wars with everybody who could be important partners for your economy. We launch a war on ideology, Donald Trump, President Donald Trump.

We launch a war with China on trade issues. We initiated the tariff war with China. And then we launch a war with Russia on energy. So why is it a good policy? In Central Europe, we did just the opposite. We built up a good relation with the new Republican administration. 44% of all European investment from China arrived to Hungary last year. 44% of all European.

We launch a war with China on trade issues. We initiated the tariff war with China. And then we launch a war with Russia on energy. So why is it a good policy? In Central Europe, we did just the opposite. We built up a good relation with the new Republican administration. 44% of all European investment from China arrived to Hungary last year. 44% of all European.

And we maintained the communication and cooperation even with the Russians. So connectivity is the word, not blocking. The European Union tried to build a block instead of running a strategy based on connectivity and do a common sense-based business with everybody who can provide something good for the European Union. But Central Europe does exactly what I'm saying about.

And we maintained the communication and cooperation even with the Russians. So connectivity is the word, not blocking. The European Union tried to build a block instead of running a strategy based on connectivity and do a common sense-based business with everybody who can provide something good for the European Union. But Central Europe does exactly what I'm saying about.

Slovaks do it, Hungary do it, Serbia do it.

Slovaks do it, Hungary do it, Serbia do it.

It's so ridiculous that it's always a dilemma to me to react at all or not. But, okay, if I take it seriously, you know, I am not a pro-Putin man. I'm a pro-Hungarian guy, you know, because my job is to serve my nation. That's first. Second, we have some memories with the Russians. It's not a honeymoon anyway.

It's so ridiculous that it's always a dilemma to me to react at all or not. But, okay, if I take it seriously, you know, I am not a pro-Putin man. I'm a pro-Hungarian guy, you know, because my job is to serve my nation. That's first. Second, we have some memories with the Russians. It's not a honeymoon anyway.

You know, Hungary, just to the audience, Hungary is dominated by always three major powers. One, Germany, I mean, Berlin, then Moscow, and Istanbul. So we are living just in the middle of that. Each of them occupied at least once. Russian street, you know? So that's the menu card, what you have if you are living in that peculiar part of the European Union. Sounds like a lot of fun.

You know, Hungary, just to the audience, Hungary is dominated by always three major powers. One, Germany, I mean, Berlin, then Moscow, and Istanbul. So we are living just in the middle of that. Each of them occupied at least once. Russian street, you know? So that's the menu card, what you have if you are living in that peculiar part of the European Union. Sounds like a lot of fun.

So therefore, I decided when I came back to power in 2010, and I made a deal with President Russia, President Putin, that whatever was the history between the two nations, let it to the historians and discuss it. And we should find a reasonable cooperation and do it economically as much as we had. And we did. And it worked. It was good. You know, Russians always kept their words.

So therefore, I decided when I came back to power in 2010, and I made a deal with President Russia, President Putin, that whatever was the history between the two nations, let it to the historians and discuss it. And we should find a reasonable cooperation and do it economically as much as we had. And we did. And it worked. It was good. You know, Russians always kept their words.

When we agreed on anything with Putin, that was done on my side as well. So therefore, my attitude to the Russians is not that negative and crazy as many of the Western leaders at this moment. And my position on this war between Ukraine and Russia always said that, guys, don't forget that this war is not about Ukraine. Don't make a mistake.

When we agreed on anything with Putin, that was done on my side as well. So therefore, my attitude to the Russians is not that negative and crazy as many of the Western leaders at this moment. And my position on this war between Ukraine and Russia always said that, guys, don't forget that this war is not about Ukraine. Don't make a mistake.

The strategical reason of this war is called enlargement of NATO. So the question is whether we would like to enlarge NATO or not. If we would like to enlarge NATO, the Russians will never accept it. Whether you like it or not, you know, they will not let us to move closer to their borders. But this is the main issue, enlargement of NATO.

The strategical reason of this war is called enlargement of NATO. So the question is whether we would like to enlarge NATO or not. If we would like to enlarge NATO, the Russians will never accept it. Whether you like it or not, you know, they will not let us to move closer to their borders. But this is the main issue, enlargement of NATO.

So then when the war has broken because Russia invaded Ukraine finally to stop the NATO membership and occupy the territories, I said to my colleagues that we should isolate NATO As much as we can and as soon as we can, this whole conflict. Otherwise, the conflict will accelerate, eating up more and more money, more and more casualties, more and more deaths, now hundreds of thousands of widows.

So then when the war has broken because Russia invaded Ukraine finally to stop the NATO membership and occupy the territories, I said to my colleagues that we should isolate NATO As much as we can and as soon as we can, this whole conflict. Otherwise, the conflict will accelerate, eating up more and more money, more and more casualties, more and more deaths, now hundreds of thousands of widows.

When two Slavic nations are in war, it's serious. Because they are both military-based nations. So it's a tragedy what's going on. It's really brutal. It's not just a geopolitical game, you know. It's a human tragedy anyway. So I said, we should isolate them and stop killing. But what now the Western strategy is that keep killing as long as it takes. So that's what they are doing.

When two Slavic nations are in war, it's serious. Because they are both military-based nations. So it's a tragedy what's going on. It's really brutal. It's not just a geopolitical game, you know. It's a human tragedy anyway. So I said, we should isolate them and stop killing. But what now the Western strategy is that keep killing as long as it takes. So that's what they are doing.

So unfortunately, I remain alone. We voted, and I was the only one who was against the involvement of European Union to the war. Later on now, the Slovakians follow the same track, plus Vatican. So Vatican, Slovaks, and Hungary. And now, Donald Trump president.

So unfortunately, I remain alone. We voted, and I was the only one who was against the involvement of European Union to the war. Later on now, the Slovakians follow the same track, plus Vatican. So Vatican, Slovaks, and Hungary. And now, Donald Trump president.

So that's a new story because your president following exactly the same track, which was offered by us, I mean, by Hungary in the last three years. So another good news.

So that's a new story because your president following exactly the same track, which was offered by us, I mean, by Hungary in the last three years. So another good news.

Is it my job to answer to that?

Is it my job to answer to that?

So first of all, I think those who love conspiracy theories are in trouble. They have to find new ones because the old one proved to be true. So that's the first probably. It's a massive problem in the United States. The second is that... You know, it's a taxpayer money.

So first of all, I think those who love conspiracy theories are in trouble. They have to find new ones because the old one proved to be true. So that's the first probably. It's a massive problem in the United States. The second is that... You know, it's a taxpayer money.

No, you don't. When I will, in my years in pension, I'm ready to answer to that. I'll try to survive rather.

No, you don't. When I will, in my years in pension, I'm ready to answer to that. I'll try to survive rather.

So just start with a very narrow Hungarian approach. Because of the sanctions and the war, we are losing every year around 7 billion euros. Hungary is a small country, can you imagine? Just Hungary? Just Hungary, just Hungary, just Hungary. So altogether, we don't know the figures exactly, but Europe spent close to 200 billion euro, which is out of the European economy. So it's a sum.

So just start with a very narrow Hungarian approach. Because of the sanctions and the war, we are losing every year around 7 billion euros. Hungary is a small country, can you imagine? Just Hungary? Just Hungary, just Hungary, just Hungary. So altogether, we don't know the figures exactly, but Europe spent close to 200 billion euro, which is out of the European economy. So it's a sum.

That's first. Second, we isolated ourselves from the Russian economy, including the energy, which will have a long-term impact on us as well, as I said, losing our working, well-functioning economic strategy as a basis of the European economy. The third one is the migrants. I mean, they are not migrants, they are really refugees. So the Ukrainians left the country.

That's first. Second, we isolated ourselves from the Russian economy, including the energy, which will have a long-term impact on us as well, as I said, losing our working, well-functioning economic strategy as a basis of the European economy. The third one is the migrants. I mean, they are not migrants, they are really refugees. So the Ukrainians left the country.

Nobody knows exactly how many, but tens of millions. So we are speaking about a country which one fifth or one fourth of the territory is occupied by Russia. The industrial area is totally destroyed and the people are just escaping. So it's really a tragedy. And if President Trump is not able to find a solution, That war could become easily an Afghanistan for the European Union.

Nobody knows exactly how many, but tens of millions. So we are speaking about a country which one fifth or one fourth of the territory is occupied by Russia. The industrial area is totally destroyed and the people are just escaping. So it's really a tragedy. And if President Trump is not able to find a solution, That war could become easily an Afghanistan for the European Union.

Endless war, endless conflict, no way out of the conflict, eating up energy, human lives, money, everything, destroying the frame of normal life for the European Union. So we are in a serious danger. The difficulty is, and that's not my challenge, but it's a challenge to President Trump, how to convince the Russians to stop the war while the Russians are basically winning.

Endless war, endless conflict, no way out of the conflict, eating up energy, human lives, money, everything, destroying the frame of normal life for the European Union. So we are in a serious danger. The difficulty is, and that's not my challenge, but it's a challenge to President Trump, how to convince the Russians to stop the war while the Russians are basically winning.

This is the big question. Luckily enough, it's not my job to find an answer again. But I'm convinced that if you try to find a solution just directly on the war between Russia and Ukraine, you will never find a solution.

This is the big question. Luckily enough, it's not my job to find an answer again. But I'm convinced that if you try to find a solution just directly on the war between Russia and Ukraine, you will never find a solution.

So we should make a bigger basket to incorporate the issue of reintegration of Russia into the international security order, to reintegrate Russia into the European security system, and to find a way of economic cooperation, basically energy. Plus Ukraine. If you make that kind of bigger basket, probably there is a chance for the deal.

So we should make a bigger basket to incorporate the issue of reintegration of Russia into the international security order, to reintegrate Russia into the European security system, and to find a way of economic cooperation, basically energy. Plus Ukraine. If you make that kind of bigger basket, probably there is a chance for the deal.

If it's narrowly, directly concentrating just Ukraine and Russia, it's a real challenge, intellectually and politically, to any president of the United States. But it's not my job again.

If it's narrowly, directly concentrating just Ukraine and Russia, it's a real challenge, intellectually and politically, to any president of the United States. But it's not my job again.

No way back. So I think, you know, we are different nations. It's not my job to make any comment neither on Russia, but Russia is a military-based country. So the mindset is about, okay, the mindset for you, mindset for me, when we speak about democracy, what is the first question which came to my mind? You concentrate your ideas around freedom, yeah? Of course.

No way back. So I think, you know, we are different nations. It's not my job to make any comment neither on Russia, but Russia is a military-based country. So the mindset is about, okay, the mindset for you, mindset for me, when we speak about democracy, what is the first question which came to my mind? You concentrate your ideas around freedom, yeah? Of course.

So if you take it, this whole thing, not as a political one, but rather as a moral issue. The fact is that the liberal elite of the West used the taxpayers' money of United States citizens to spread their ideology all around the world. And financed in Hungary more than 60 NGOs, paid politicians, media outlets, you know. So it was a... It was a plot against our sovereignty and independence.

So if you take it, this whole thing, not as a political one, but rather as a moral issue. The fact is that the liberal elite of the West used the taxpayers' money of United States citizens to spread their ideology all around the world. And financed in Hungary more than 60 NGOs, paid politicians, media outlets, you know. So it was a... It was a plot against our sovereignty and independence.

Okay, but it's not the case in Russia. In case of Russia, it's security of the nation. than democracy and other issues, which are important, but the number one is, because it's a too big country, to keep it together, it is number one historical challenge and mission for the leaders. So it's a different mindset again.

Okay, but it's not the case in Russia. In case of Russia, it's security of the nation. than democracy and other issues, which are important, but the number one is, because it's a too big country, to keep it together, it is number one historical challenge and mission for the leaders. So it's a different mindset again.

So if you have that kind of country and you insult them politically, try to isolate them politically, try to kill them economically, then support his enemy by all the means. And after a few years you say, no, We don't think too much seriously, so come back and cooperate with us. It doesn't work.

So if you have that kind of country and you insult them politically, try to isolate them politically, try to kill them economically, then support his enemy by all the means. And after a few years you say, no, We don't think too much seriously, so come back and cooperate with us. It doesn't work.

So we made a historical mistake, which is decisive for at least 100 years, and based CEMENT, the Chinese-Russian cooperation, for 100 years. So we have to see that kind of block as a block. Probably Russia will make a deal with us on many issues, but we'll never give up that kind of final background, what China means.

So we made a historical mistake, which is decisive for at least 100 years, and based CEMENT, the Chinese-Russian cooperation, for 100 years. So we have to see that kind of block as a block. Probably Russia will make a deal with us on many issues, but we'll never give up that kind of final background, what China means.

If you would be in the shoes of Vladimir Putin, I think you would do the same thing. Never give up that kind of background, which was the real and only background. Can you imagine if the China would not be in that relation with Russia and use the possibility being attacked from West and try to squeeze from the East Russia, you know? But Chinese did not do so.

If you would be in the shoes of Vladimir Putin, I think you would do the same thing. Never give up that kind of background, which was the real and only background. Can you imagine if the China would not be in that relation with Russia and use the possibility being attacked from West and try to squeeze from the East Russia, you know? But Chinese did not do so.

They said, we don't accept that kind of Western approach to this war. So it's historic. It's not just a war of the decade. It will have an impact for long, long, long, long decades. We will live with that. Even our kids will live in that age. But Russia will never come back to the West as it was. Never again. Sorry to say that. I'm not happy with that because... Russia is too close to Hungary.

They said, we don't accept that kind of Western approach to this war. So it's historic. It's not just a war of the decade. It will have an impact for long, long, long, long decades. We will live with that. Even our kids will live in that age. But Russia will never come back to the West as it was. Never again. Sorry to say that. I'm not happy with that because... Russia is too close to Hungary.

And the Ukraine. What is basically, again, the problem? The Russians accepted, in a very difficult way, that Central European countries like my home, Hungary, became members of NATO. They always criticized that move. saying that it's unfair because it was promised.

And the Ukraine. What is basically, again, the problem? The Russians accepted, in a very difficult way, that Central European countries like my home, Hungary, became members of NATO. They always criticized that move. saying that it's unfair because it was promised.

Nobody knows exactly whether it did happen or not, but it was promised that the ex-Soviet Union-dominated territories will now join NATO. But we did. Good for us anyway. And the Russians started to live with that. In that concept, Ukraine was the buffer zone between NATO and Russia.

Nobody knows exactly whether it did happen or not, but it was promised that the ex-Soviet Union-dominated territories will now join NATO. But we did. Good for us anyway. And the Russians started to live with that. In that concept, Ukraine was the buffer zone between NATO and Russia.

And then now, as we started to incorporate more and more Ukraine, first at the military level, developing their army, then even at the diplomatic level to speak about the possible membership of Ukraine to NATO, we converted the buffer zone into a war zone. So it's not anymore a buffer zone. That's the problem. And it's history. It's not about one or two decades issue.

And then now, as we started to incorporate more and more Ukraine, first at the military level, developing their army, then even at the diplomatic level to speak about the possible membership of Ukraine to NATO, we converted the buffer zone into a war zone. So it's not anymore a buffer zone. That's the problem. And it's history. It's not about one or two decades issue.

So how we imagine the territory between the NATO and Russia, how we call it and how to manage it, how we provide the future for the people and the territory. So these are the real big and difficult challenges ahead of us. One big change. When we jumped into the war, that was always my argument to the Westerners that, Don't consider that war as our own war. It's not a war of the West.

So how we imagine the territory between the NATO and Russia, how we call it and how to manage it, how we provide the future for the people and the territory. So these are the real big and difficult challenges ahead of us. One big change. When we jumped into the war, that was always my argument to the Westerners that, Don't consider that war as our own war. It's not a war of the West.

It's a war between two Slavic nations, a brutal but a brotherhood war. Russians and Ukrainians, isolate them, help them, but don't say that this is our war. That's exactly what you have done. Basically, Biden president came to Warsaw and said, Putin must fail. Guys, it means that you are in the war. So why we have done it? Nobody knows the answer of that. So it was a very short-sighted idea.

It's a war between two Slavic nations, a brutal but a brotherhood war. Russians and Ukrainians, isolate them, help them, but don't say that this is our war. That's exactly what you have done. Basically, Biden president came to Warsaw and said, Putin must fail. Guys, it means that you are in the war. So why we have done it? Nobody knows the answer of that. So it was a very short-sighted idea.

Probably they thought that they could weaken Russia. I was always sure at the very first moment that a war will make Russia stronger than it was prior to the war. That's our history. First World War, Second World War. When they start the war, they are weaker. As the war is going ahead, they are getting stronger and stronger and stronger.

Probably they thought that they could weaken Russia. I was always sure at the very first moment that a war will make Russia stronger than it was prior to the war. That's our history. First World War, Second World War. When they start the war, they are weaker. As the war is going ahead, they are getting stronger and stronger and stronger.

Sorry, made by you. I know. Sorry. But this is the case. And the same has happened from the Brazilian budget, which is even more scandalous, may I say, because we pay the money in the Brazilian budget and they finance our enemies at home. So what's going on? So this is the liberal deep state, the global liberal deep state. And now we see how it has operated. It raises a deep question of motive.

Sorry, made by you. I know. Sorry. But this is the case. And the same has happened from the Brazilian budget, which is even more scandalous, may I say, because we pay the money in the Brazilian budget and they finance our enemies at home. So what's going on? So this is the liberal deep state, the global liberal deep state. And now we see how it has operated. It raises a deep question of motive.

I think two reasons. One is that they have an interpretation of the Second World War. that Russia was able to win against Germany just because the Anglo-Saxons supported them. That's first. Second, you know... May I ask you to pause? And you don't believe that's true? I think to a certain extent it was true.

I think two reasons. One is that they have an interpretation of the Second World War. that Russia was able to win against Germany just because the Anglo-Saxons supported them. That's first. Second, you know... May I ask you to pause? And you don't believe that's true? I think to a certain extent it was true.

So a lot of support came from the United States, especially to Russia, especially ammunition, weapons, and so on. So I can't say that that was the precondition. I don't underestimate the heroic attempts of the Russians to defend their own land, even against the Hungarians anyway, because we were on the other side. But it's true that the alliance with the West

So a lot of support came from the United States, especially to Russia, especially ammunition, weapons, and so on. So I can't say that that was the precondition. I don't underestimate the heroic attempts of the Russians to defend their own land, even against the Hungarians anyway, because we were on the other side. But it's true that the alliance with the West

played a role that Russia was able to survive the German attacks. So that's exaggeration on the Western side of that story, probably. And the second, don't forget that in the 90s, in the 90s, I was prime minister when President Putin came into power, 1990. I was first time prime minister at that time. And I do remember how was the 90s. In the 90s,

played a role that Russia was able to survive the German attacks. So that's exaggeration on the Western side of that story, probably. And the second, don't forget that in the 90s, in the 90s, I was prime minister when President Putin came into power, 1990. I was first time prime minister at that time. And I do remember how was the 90s. In the 90s,

There was the Washington Consensus, which is a theory of how to reorganize the world economy, privatization, competitiveness, and so on. And global capitalists started to invest into Russia, and they had a feeling that now they find the key how to integrate the Russian economy and the huge, vast Russian territories and raw materials, energy supply territories into the world economy.

There was the Washington Consensus, which is a theory of how to reorganize the world economy, privatization, competitiveness, and so on. And global capitalists started to invest into Russia, and they had a feeling that now they find the key how to integrate the Russian economy and the huge, vast Russian territories and raw materials, energy supply territories into the world economy.

That was the 90s. And they did it. They made a huge amount of money. George Soros, who I always would focus to follow anyway to understand what's going on, did it. But the Russians were not satisfied with that at all. And then there was a change. President Putin came to power and said, guys, this integration to the world economy, not the way which is serving the interest of Russia.

That was the 90s. And they did it. They made a huge amount of money. George Soros, who I always would focus to follow anyway to understand what's going on, did it. But the Russians were not satisfied with that at all. And then there was a change. President Putin came to power and said, guys, this integration to the world economy, not the way which is serving the interest of Russia.

And they cut many things. And many Americans and European investors have to realize some losses. And I think the idea that they were so close to get it, to get the major source of the profit, and it was stopped by the same man, there is a personal revenge element in their way of thinking. I'm sure of that. Sorry, that's too much probably to say about it.

And they cut many things. And many Americans and European investors have to realize some losses. And I think the idea that they were so close to get it, to get the major source of the profit, and it was stopped by the same man, there is a personal revenge element in their way of thinking. I'm sure of that. Sorry, that's too much probably to say about it.

The Russians had their own concept how they would like to be integrated into the world economy. And that concept was different from the American concept and from the European concept, of course. Hungary is part of that. So when we realized what is the new strategy of the Russians, the Hungarian companies went to Russia to make their business.

The Russians had their own concept how they would like to be integrated into the world economy. And that concept was different from the American concept and from the European concept, of course. Hungary is part of that. So when we realized what is the new strategy of the Russians, the Hungarian companies went to Russia to make their business.

I'm sure that from the Emirates they are doing their businesses as well, and the Saudis and others. So they would not like to be isolated. They would be part of the world economy based on the Russian interest, not on the Washington consensus principles or something like that, you know? But it's their country. Whether we like it or not, whether we agree or not, it's their country.

I'm sure that from the Emirates they are doing their businesses as well, and the Saudis and others. So they would not like to be isolated. They would be part of the world economy based on the Russian interest, not on the Washington consensus principles or something like that, you know? But it's their country. Whether we like it or not, whether we agree or not, it's their country.

They make their choice. If it's their decision, we have to adjust ourselves, not to force them to change their mind. It's not our job. At least this is the Hungarian approach. Probably not the American, but definitely the Central European. They are too close. Don't forget they're too close.

They make their choice. If it's their decision, we have to adjust ourselves, not to force them to change their mind. It's not our job. At least this is the Hungarian approach. Probably not the American, but definitely the Central European. They are too close. Don't forget they're too close.

First of all, even if I have many critical remarks, it does not matter if you take the proper vantage point to see what has happened in Ukraine in the last years. They decided to go into a war. to defend their own territory, their own right to join NATO and to be part of the Western architecture, security and economic architecture. That was their decision. And they fight for it.

First of all, even if I have many critical remarks, it does not matter if you take the proper vantage point to see what has happened in Ukraine in the last years. They decided to go into a war. to defend their own territory, their own right to join NATO and to be part of the Western architecture, security and economic architecture. That was their decision. And they fight for it.

And they lost hundreds of thousands of lives. And they fight heroically. So I'm very cautious to make any critical remarks on the president or Ukraine. Because what they have done is really something heroic and historical. To resist to that power like Russia for that long time, you know. So it's...

And they lost hundreds of thousands of lives. And they fight heroically. So I'm very cautious to make any critical remarks on the president or Ukraine. Because what they have done is really something heroic and historical. To resist to that power like Russia for that long time, you know. So it's...

Whatever political mistakes they have done, the fact itself, the fight and sacrifice is something we have to say that's really heroic. So that's number one. Number two, I think it was a misunderstanding on their behalf the real intention of the West. And they thought that the West will support them forever. And therefore, their behavior was not exactly as it would be seen as normal.

Whatever political mistakes they have done, the fact itself, the fight and sacrifice is something we have to say that's really heroic. So that's number one. Number two, I think it was a misunderstanding on their behalf the real intention of the West. And they thought that the West will support them forever. And therefore, their behavior was not exactly as it would be seen as normal.

Because if you are in trouble, you need help, you are going to somewhere to ask, it's not the right tone as they communicate with us. Anyway, so. But they thought that they can do so. Because the West will remain behind them forever. If you understand well the history of the Western politics, this is a misconception, may I say. That's not what the West did in the last several years. No, no.

Because if you are in trouble, you need help, you are going to somewhere to ask, it's not the right tone as they communicate with us. Anyway, so. But they thought that they can do so. Because the West will remain behind them forever. If you understand well the history of the Western politics, this is a misconception, may I say. That's not what the West did in the last several years. No, no.

It should be not naive, I think so. One motivation is always money. So that was a way how the American Democrats thought they can open the gates for their business activity. If they change the governments which insisted on having sovereignty and standing and fight for themselves, it's more difficult to find business possibilities for those speculators. Soros is a Hungarian guy.

It should be not naive, I think so. One motivation is always money. So that was a way how the American Democrats thought they can open the gates for their business activity. If they change the governments which insisted on having sovereignty and standing and fight for themselves, it's more difficult to find business possibilities for those speculators. Soros is a Hungarian guy.

So I was sure that sooner or later they will be let alone and say, guys, war is over, financial support is over, military support is over, let's make a deal. Even if you have huge losses, this is the right moment. We would not like to risk World War III. We would not like to risk a direct conflict with Russia on military fields.

So I was sure that sooner or later they will be let alone and say, guys, war is over, financial support is over, military support is over, let's make a deal. Even if you have huge losses, this is the right moment. We would not like to risk World War III. We would not like to risk a direct conflict with Russia on military fields.

So my heart is with the Ukrainians, but they are in a big, big, big trouble because of the position they have now on this whole issue.

So my heart is with the Ukrainians, but they are in a big, big, big trouble because of the position they have now on this whole issue.

So, just again, very cautiously. And now everybody thinks that we have a problem called Russia, which is true. But then soon we will have another problem called Ukraine. Yes.

So, just again, very cautiously. And now everybody thinks that we have a problem called Russia, which is true. But then soon we will have another problem called Ukraine. Yes.

You live in the United States, and it's probably difficult to imagine the strength of liberal dictatorship of public life we are living under in Europe. So, you know, the pressure from the liberal public opinion is so strong on the leaders that in the last three years, all the European leaders follow the same track.

You live in the United States, and it's probably difficult to imagine the strength of liberal dictatorship of public life we are living under in Europe. So, you know, the pressure from the liberal public opinion is so strong on the leaders that in the last three years, all the European leaders follow the same track.

So try to imagine that a big European nation leader says that we have to support Ukraine, whatever does it take. We have to do, this is a moral-based position. We can't change it. and they should join NATO, and we are arguing in favor of that.

So try to imagine that a big European nation leader says that we have to support Ukraine, whatever does it take. We have to do, this is a moral-based position. We can't change it. and they should join NATO, and we are arguing in favor of that.

And then, just to say next weekend, guys, there are some changes in the world, so our principally based position is over, and now, you know, turn like that. So to make that change with the present leadership, it's difficult to imagine. I would not like to make nasty jokes, but now, because of the American decision, it's really time for sober up, But they are in the phase of re-drinking.

And then, just to say next weekend, guys, there are some changes in the world, so our principally based position is over, and now, you know, turn like that. So to make that change with the present leadership, it's difficult to imagine. I would not like to make nasty jokes, but now, because of the American decision, it's really time for sober up, But they are in the phase of re-drinking.

So it takes time to change the direction of the sheep. Just today they issued a paper, they issued a statement. The big European nation saying that they continue as they have done regardless of what the Americans have said. That's just this morning.

So it takes time to change the direction of the sheep. Just today they issued a paper, they issued a statement. The big European nation saying that they continue as they have done regardless of what the Americans have said. That's just this morning.

Yes, definitely. Even earlier. Really? Yeah, I think so. Serious guys. So strong men make peace. Weak men make war. That's so simple. Now we have strong leaders.

Yes, definitely. Even earlier. Really? Yeah, I think so. Serious guys. So strong men make peace. Weak men make war. That's so simple. Now we have strong leaders.

I think history, for all the criticism you've taken, will— Don't forget that I have another record I hold. It's more important. Longest-serving leader of opposition in Europe.

I think history, for all the criticism you've taken, will— Don't forget that I have another record I hold. It's more important. Longest-serving leader of opposition in Europe.

16 years just because I'm just because I'm accused not to be democratic you know don't forget that okay 19 years in government that's something but 16 years in opposition and to lead up that's even more so I had that record as well so I know the both side of democracy the sunny one and the raining one as well

16 years just because I'm just because I'm accused not to be democratic you know don't forget that okay 19 years in government that's something but 16 years in opposition and to lead up that's even more so I had that record as well so I know the both side of democracy the sunny one and the raining one as well

So I never left politics, even I lost the election, so I'm a political animal who is running a democratic political architecture and machinery in my country.

So I never left politics, even I lost the election, so I'm a political animal who is running a democratic political architecture and machinery in my country.

George Soros kind of speculators can find easier way to generate money and to make profit on your economy. So that's the number one motivation. But the second one, don't forget that leftists are always ideologically driven. And they believe certain things, which for us sounds crazy, even embarrassing, you know, frightening. But they believe it.

George Soros kind of speculators can find easier way to generate money and to make profit on your economy. So that's the number one motivation. But the second one, don't forget that leftists are always ideologically driven. And they believe certain things, which for us sounds crazy, even embarrassing, you know, frightening. But they believe it.

When I was in opposition, I had more time to deal with football. Which is a real issue anyway.

When I was in opposition, I had more time to deal with football. Which is a real issue anyway.

We do run that. So I run that kind of opinion polls. So I have a view on all European countries. And I can say that the majority is moving to the peace position. And the pro-peace is bigger now. There's a majority of the pro-peace in the European public opinion in general.

We do run that. So I run that kind of opinion polls. So I have a view on all European countries. And I can say that the majority is moving to the peace position. And the pro-peace is bigger now. There's a majority of the pro-peace in the European public opinion in general.

There are some one or two countries which is exceptional, all the others belonging to the same track, more, more, more for peace. But there is another opinion, Paul, which is even more important. I would not like to divert this conversation, but we run every year and we ask the Europeans, what do you think about the life of your children?

There are some one or two countries which is exceptional, all the others belonging to the same track, more, more, more for peace. But there is another opinion, Paul, which is even more important. I would not like to divert this conversation, but we run every year and we ask the Europeans, what do you think about the life of your children?

Will they have a better future and better life than you have now, or it will be worse? And you know, all the Western countries says worse. All the Central European countries says better. So this is the real difference now inside the continent between the Western countries and the Central European countries.

Will they have a better future and better life than you have now, or it will be worse? And you know, all the Western countries says worse. All the Central European countries says better. So this is the real difference now inside the continent between the Western countries and the Central European countries.

So we still believe ex-occupied countries by the Soviet Union, communist dictatorship, regardless of that, we still believe that we can create a better future for our kids than we live today, but the Westerners think just the opposite of that. So that's another very interesting structural difference inside the single market and the European Union.

So we still believe ex-occupied countries by the Soviet Union, communist dictatorship, regardless of that, we still believe that we can create a better future for our kids than we live today, but the Westerners think just the opposite of that. So that's another very interesting structural difference inside the single market and the European Union.

Because, that's one, but the other one, what we have now, we fight for. We fought for it. Democracy, freedom. The Western generations who are now in power and ruling the countries, when they were born, there was democracy and freedom in the Western part of Europe. I spent 26 years of my life in communist dictatorship. I haven't inherited freedom or democracy. We fought for it. We did it.

Because, that's one, but the other one, what we have now, we fight for. We fought for it. Democracy, freedom. The Western generations who are now in power and ruling the countries, when they were born, there was democracy and freedom in the Western part of Europe. I spent 26 years of my life in communist dictatorship. I haven't inherited freedom or democracy. We fought for it. We did it.

We get it. So we fought for it. So therefore, we are absolutely convinced that we did it not in vain. It was a science. And we are able to create and build up countries, Central Europe, after 45 years of Soviet occupation and communist dictatorship, which our kids will enjoy and deserve. So... Democracy and freedom in eastern and central part of Europe is a serious thing. It's part of our life.

We get it. So we fought for it. So therefore, we are absolutely convinced that we did it not in vain. It was a science. And we are able to create and build up countries, Central Europe, after 45 years of Soviet occupation and communist dictatorship, which our kids will enjoy and deserve. So... Democracy and freedom in eastern and central part of Europe is a serious thing. It's part of our life.

It belongs to our heart. It's the essence of our life. Investor societies, you know, they inherited. It's a given thing. even the middle class while living a convenient way of life also. So when you look at the European Union and Europe, don't think that it's the same everywhere. So there are differences, not just on national basis, but on historical basis as well.

It belongs to our heart. It's the essence of our life. Investor societies, you know, they inherited. It's a given thing. even the middle class while living a convenient way of life also. So when you look at the European Union and Europe, don't think that it's the same everywhere. So there are differences, not just on national basis, but on historical basis as well.

And I don't know what is the future of Western Europe, but I'm totally convinced that Central Europe and Eastern Europe Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Serbia has a definite bright future. I'm sure of that. I am too. Mr. Prime Minister, thank you. Thank you very much. That was wonderful.

And I don't know what is the future of Western Europe, but I'm totally convinced that Central Europe and Eastern Europe Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Serbia has a definite bright future. I'm sure of that. I am too. Mr. Prime Minister, thank you. Thank you very much. That was wonderful.

In Europe, probably it's difficult to understand, but I'm sure that the leaders of the left in Western Europe deeply convinced that if they let the migrants in, which are basically Muslims, poor Muslim persons, and let them to... to be combined with the traditional Christian society, and they manage a kind of integration, the outcome of this whole process will be a better and happier society.

In Europe, probably it's difficult to understand, but I'm sure that the leaders of the left in Western Europe deeply convinced that if they let the migrants in, which are basically Muslims, poor Muslim persons, and let them to... to be combined with the traditional Christian society, and they manage a kind of integration, the outcome of this whole process will be a better and happier society.

And that's the reason why George Soros published his plan. It was signed by himself, saying that the European Union should let one million migrants every year to move to Europe. And then, you know, I always said that It belongs to the decision of the national government. So if the Germans or the French would like to make that historical research project, how to improve their society, let's do it.

And that's the reason why George Soros published his plan. It was signed by himself, saying that the European Union should let one million migrants every year to move to Europe. And then, you know, I always said that It belongs to the decision of the national government. So if the Germans or the French would like to make that historical research project, how to improve their society, let's do it.

But let us those who do not believe that the outcome will be a good thing, not to do that. So Hungary never tried to educate anybody how a society could be better or worse. We always said that, guys, let us to make our own decision. And to let migrants in or keep them out is exclusively belonging to our nations as a decision.

But let us those who do not believe that the outcome will be a good thing, not to do that. So Hungary never tried to educate anybody how a society could be better or worse. We always said that, guys, let us to make our own decision. And to let migrants in or keep them out is exclusively belonging to our nations as a decision.

So don't force us from Brussels or from Washington that migration is good and those who are not let the migrants in definitely must be bad guys. So this is unacceptable. But that was the thing. But Donald Trump changed the mindset of the West. I think this is the key issue. So probably Donald Trump president will change the geopolitics as well. I hope so anyway.

So don't force us from Brussels or from Washington that migration is good and those who are not let the migrants in definitely must be bad guys. So this is unacceptable. But that was the thing. But Donald Trump changed the mindset of the West. I think this is the key issue. So probably Donald Trump president will change the geopolitics as well. I hope so anyway.

But he already made a huge change in the mindset of the political thinking of the West. Previously, they said migration is good. To resist to migration is bad. Now it's just the opposite. To defend your interest is good. Migration, illegal migration especially, is bad. Then on the Green Deal... They said green is good, economic competitiveness does not count.

But he already made a huge change in the mindset of the political thinking of the West. Previously, they said migration is good. To resist to migration is bad. Now it's just the opposite. To defend your interest is good. Migration, illegal migration especially, is bad. Then on the Green Deal... They said green is good, economic competitiveness does not count.

Now it's obvious that economic competitiveness first and green issues just the second. And then on religious communities and values, Christianity in our case, you know, it was said that this belonged to the middle age. They made us ridiculous several times, making jokes on us and so on. But now the president said it's a respectful thing.

Now it's obvious that economic competitiveness first and green issues just the second. And then on religious communities and values, Christianity in our case, you know, it was said that this belonged to the middle age. They made us ridiculous several times, making jokes on us and so on. But now the president said it's a respectful thing.

The community of the believers must enjoy respect, which is good for our society. Or then family in the West. The mindset was that family is also belonging to the past and other configuration of living together persons is preferable. Now it's back. Traditional values are better than this whole thing. And gender, which is a crazy gender propaganda. Now it's publicly said it's bad.

The community of the believers must enjoy respect, which is good for our society. Or then family in the West. The mindset was that family is also belonging to the past and other configuration of living together persons is preferable. Now it's back. Traditional values are better than this whole thing. And gender, which is a crazy gender propaganda. Now it's publicly said it's bad.

To defend traditional values is good. And war. You know, in Europe in the last... Three years, it was said always that war is good, peace is bad, concerning Ukraine-Russia war. So those who argued in favor of peace and peace negotiations and communications said, you are bad guys. The good guys are who are arguing in favor of war. So now it's totally changed.

To defend traditional values is good. And war. You know, in Europe in the last... Three years, it was said always that war is good, peace is bad, concerning Ukraine-Russia war. So those who argued in favor of peace and peace negotiations and communications said, you are bad guys. The good guys are who are arguing in favor of war. So now it's totally changed.

So Donald Trump president already changed the mindset of the whole Western world. That's where we are at this moment, and it's very good for Hungary.

So Donald Trump president already changed the mindset of the whole Western world. That's where we are at this moment, and it's very good for Hungary.

That would request a deeper understanding of the intellectual history of the European political thinking. But there was always a strong leftist liberal community which was not proud being a Westerner. Always have perceived its own civilization as something bad. And their intention was not to make it stronger and to maintain and make it stronger, but rather to destroy, to improve by destroying.

That would request a deeper understanding of the intellectual history of the European political thinking. But there was always a strong leftist liberal community which was not proud being a Westerner. Always have perceived its own civilization as something bad. And their intention was not to make it stronger and to maintain and make it stronger, but rather to destroy, to improve by destroying.

That's a very communist idea, deleting the past. That was always the communist idea. So they don't like the West. They don't like their nation. Sometimes they are ashamed to belong to a nation because they think that nation is a bad thing.

That's a very communist idea, deleting the past. That was always the communist idea. So they don't like the West. They don't like their nation. Sometimes they are ashamed to belong to a nation because they think that nation is a bad thing.

So if you think that nation is something good and you are proud of it and you think that you have to work for your nation to be competitive and better than the others, it's an awful Nazis, you know, extreme right something. That's their approach. That's the tradition of the European left. And in the latest years, it was brutally witnessed in the everyday political discussion.

So if you think that nation is something good and you are proud of it and you think that you have to work for your nation to be competitive and better than the others, it's an awful Nazis, you know, extreme right something. That's their approach. That's the tradition of the European left. And in the latest years, it was brutally witnessed in the everyday political discussion.

So I'm a fascist, you know, I'm sitting here like... I'm a bad guy. I'm a fascist. I'm middle-aged, feudalistic, Christian radicals. Who is arguing for peace, which is the worst thing. That's absurd, may I say.

So I'm a fascist, you know, I'm sitting here like... I'm a bad guy. I'm a fascist. I'm middle-aged, feudalistic, Christian radicals. Who is arguing for peace, which is the worst thing. That's absurd, may I say.

You mean migration? Migration. Unrestricted migration. So we are living in, okay, under liberal dictatorship intellectually, but politically still we are living in democracies. So public opinion counts. And I think now we have a problem of democracy because of the migration. It's not just a problem of migration, problem of democracy.

You mean migration? Migration. Unrestricted migration. So we are living in, okay, under liberal dictatorship intellectually, but politically still we are living in democracies. So public opinion counts. And I think now we have a problem of democracy because of the migration. It's not just a problem of migration, problem of democracy.

Because if you have an elite which is not ready to accept the obvious public will of your voters, instead of accepting that forcing against the population their own crazy ideas, it raised the problem of democracy. So that's where we are, because now there's a quite strong shift in the mindset of the Western societies. Previously, at the beginning of the mass migration period, I'm speaking about

Because if you have an elite which is not ready to accept the obvious public will of your voters, instead of accepting that forcing against the population their own crazy ideas, it raised the problem of democracy. So that's where we are, because now there's a quite strong shift in the mindset of the Western societies. Previously, at the beginning of the mass migration period, I'm speaking about

2015, 2016, there were half and half of the societies, even probably more than half was in favor of doing something good in favor of those who were considered as refugees. Then slowly but surely turned to be that they are not refugees, basically. They're changing their place. There are some of them refugees, but basically the majority of them would like to get a better life, simply.

2015, 2016, there were half and half of the societies, even probably more than half was in favor of doing something good in favor of those who were considered as refugees. Then slowly but surely turned to be that they are not refugees, basically. They're changing their place. There are some of them refugees, but basically the majority of them would like to get a better life, simply.

And they are organized by smugglers. It's an international black business, you know, so it's an awful business. And now the terrorism somehow related to this whole changes just come up to the surface. It's never happened earlier. Terrorism was not part of the Western life anyway. If I remember back, the last one was in the 70s, some crazy communist Marxist group of Germany.

And they are organized by smugglers. It's an international black business, you know, so it's an awful business. And now the terrorism somehow related to this whole changes just come up to the surface. It's never happened earlier. Terrorism was not part of the Western life anyway. If I remember back, the last one was in the 70s, some crazy communist Marxist group of Germany.

But after that, you know, terrorism is not part of the Western life. Violence of public life does not belong to us. But now terrorism is up. Public order is dispersing. So now the society is against the mass migration policy. So we'll comment culture, as it was called by Angela Merkel. Now it's totally negative.

But after that, you know, terrorism is not part of the Western life. Violence of public life does not belong to us. But now terrorism is up. Public order is dispersing. So now the society is against the mass migration policy. So we'll comment culture, as it was called by Angela Merkel. Now it's totally negative.

And the problem is that the elite was so much committed to that ideology that now it's difficult to change their position. And that leads us to the problem of democracy. As we will see in Germany just soon, election is coming two weeks time. And you probably have realized that there were some surprising discussion in the German parliament whether to change the migration regulation or not.

And the problem is that the elite was so much committed to that ideology that now it's difficult to change their position. And that leads us to the problem of democracy. As we will see in Germany just soon, election is coming two weeks time. And you probably have realized that there were some surprising discussion in the German parliament whether to change the migration regulation or not.

And the public opinion said, 70% said, yes, you should change it. And they voted against it. So it's a problem of democracy. It's not just a problem of migration. It's not a problem of leadership. The whole structure and the system is under pressure at this moment.

And the public opinion said, 70% said, yes, you should change it. And they voted against it. So it's a problem of democracy. It's not just a problem of migration. It's not a problem of leadership. The whole structure and the system is under pressure at this moment.

So now we lost all the real attraction, what we have done previously, and Donald Trump take away all the attraction of the international politics. We have done something for 15 years in Hungary, in headwind, liberal headwind, stopping migration, defending traditional values, respecting religious communities, no Green Deal, low taxation.

So now we lost all the real attraction, what we have done previously, and Donald Trump take away all the attraction of the international politics. We have done something for 15 years in Hungary, in headwind, liberal headwind, stopping migration, defending traditional values, respecting religious communities, no Green Deal, low taxation.

Yes. But at the same time, don't forget that democracy is a word we use too much, probably too often without understanding exactly what does it mean. There are many theories, as you know. But the most relevant one is the Greek origin of the understanding of democracy. They said democracy means two things at the same time. Participation of the people, involvement.

Yes. But at the same time, don't forget that democracy is a word we use too much, probably too often without understanding exactly what does it mean. There are many theories, as you know. But the most relevant one is the Greek origin of the understanding of democracy. They said democracy means two things at the same time. Participation of the people, involvement.

But the involvement of the people must be resulted in good governance. If the involvement of the people, the public opinion, does not result in good governance, it's anarchy. It's not democracy. So democracy means participation of the people by their voting in the major decisions, and the outcome must be a good governance. It's one of them is lacking. It's not democracy.

But the involvement of the people must be resulted in good governance. If the involvement of the people, the public opinion, does not result in good governance, it's anarchy. It's not democracy. So democracy means participation of the people by their voting in the major decisions, and the outcome must be a good governance. It's one of them is lacking. It's not democracy.

And now in Europe, we are heading to a position when the people has a chance to vote, but there is no chance to get good governance. So we are moving, brother, towards a kind of anarchical public life in West Europe.

And now in Europe, we are heading to a position when the people has a chance to vote, but there is no chance to get good governance. So we are moving, brother, towards a kind of anarchical public life in West Europe.

The German economy is part of the European bomb because we have the single market. And the single market as such is in trouble. I'm in international politics for more than 30 years. And I do remember then 30 years ago, the biggest economy of the world was the European Union. And now it's only number three. And if you look at the top five economies of the world, there is no European among them.

So European Union, economically, it's not a success story. And the success of European Union will always strongly link to the success of German economy. And now they are suffering and we are suffering. And the reason is very simple. There was a well-functioning, quite well-functioning structural model of the German economy and the European economy.

That was cheap Russian energy and well-advanced European technology come together and we are competitive. But now after the war, we isolated ourselves from the cheap energy, and there is no new strategy how we could be competitive. So we have a lost strategy, but we don't have a new one. There's no replacement for the old one. So now the problem is that we don't have compass where we should move.

So we are just managing the daily work, but there is no real strategy what is the future of the European economy. No answer of that. That's the reason why China, United States, because President Trump is back, obviously is in a far better position than we are. Lack of leadership, lack of ideas, lack of visions. That's why we suffer.

Hungary is a small country. Ten million. Elephants is a different game. It's another league. That's how they live. If it would have happened with Hungary, there would be some noise, no question of that. But, you know, it's Germany.

So everything which is unorthodox in the mind of the liberals. So we were a kind of hero. We were a kind of island of difference in the liberal ocean. But now, unfortunately... Donald Trump taking over everything. So, yeah, just sitting and try to follow him now. This is a totally new reality.

So I think the basic reason is that in the last several decades, there was a strong alliance between the American liberal elite and the European liberal elite. And they agree always what is the issue and what is not the issue. If they decided that something is not an issue, it was not an issue. And the Germans were part of that kind of alliance. transatlantic liberal alliance.

And they were managed to stop all the voices which tried to raise the question, which is a serious one anyway. But anyway, it's not the only one. I do remember some other scandals as well. Beginning of the previous decade, it turned out that the United States, democratic government anyway, taped the Chancellor of Germany. And we were discussing it at the European Council meeting.

Sarkozy, who was the president of France at that time, said, guys, what a scandalous thing is that? We have to do that. The Germans said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Transatlantic creation is the most important thing we have to manage, not in that way, and so on. So that's an alliance between the transatlantic elites from America and the European Union.

So probably that was your sentence, not mine. If a country is not ready to stand up and fight for himself, it does not deserve any help from outside.

I think the approach of the new incumbent administration of the United States has a very special approach to the other economies. And this is based on facts and figures and concentrates on trade balances. And as far as I was able to understand the way of thinking of this new administration in your country, they see a triangle, Europe, China, United States. And they have a look at the figures.

And Europe make plus 200 billion of trade with United States. We lose the same sum to China. So it's basically Europe is zero. And European Union make... 200 billion euro plus the trade with you, United States, and you lose to China 300. So it means that Europe is basically a zero, China plus 500 billion, United States minus 500 billion. And as your president said, it's not good, it's bad.

And that's, may I say, very much helpful to Hungary because, you know, I try to make some jokes on how the last 15 years was, but it was serious. So when you have one boot from United States on your chest and one from Brussels, European Union, trying to kill you and to deliver evidences that that way of government and governance cannot work, it's difficult to survive.

So something should be done. And he will do something. He is not, probably the new administration is not thinking about geopolitical concepts of economy, but you know, figures, facts. And they would like to do something to improve the trade balance. And that's a challenge for Europe. So it's a serious matter. It's not about friendship. It's not about, you know, love each other, brother in arms.

That's very nice, but it's money. It's figures. So we have to find a solution and to make a deal with the United States. If Europeans are just sitting and waiting... That's not a good strategy. We should come up with a strategy and to provide something, a deal, proposals to the United States to how to reshape that kind of imbalanced trade relationship.

Otherwise, we will get tariffs and we will suffer. We are not strong enough to defend our interest after waiting and losing weeks and months. But the problem is that Europe now leads by bureaucrats. You know, we have the European Commission. Do you know what is it? The Commission is a bureaucratic body which originally was planned to be the guardian of the treaty.

you know, so just to help to maintain the fair legal regulation inside the single market area. But now the bureaucrats are more than 30,000, you know, they're growing, growing, growing, and they took away the leadership from the real prime ministers of Europe. So now the Commission tries to lead the European Union, but they are bureaucrats.

And we have the leadership program because bureaucrats cannot lead anything politically. When everything is going well, bureaucrats are not harmful because things are going well. But when there are difficulties and decisions must be made, like now we should make an offer to the United States, the bureaucrats will never do that because they are bureaucrats.

Bureaucrats are interested in status quo, not to provide political leadership for your community. So that's another problem inside the European Union. But I would not like to speak too much about other countries because my job is to preserve the sovereignty and good chances for the future of my own nation.

So what I am doing now, I try to find a way how we can have a good relation with United States to make some deals on economy as much as big as we can. We are working on that and try to create an economic policy which make Hungary successful even if the European Union exists or European Union does not exist. The problem is to be sharp.

We have not more than three, four years and if we don't do something dramatically different strategy, the European Union will fall apart. So there is a famous study published in Western Europe called Draghi Report. Draghi was the previous head of the European Bank and previously prime minister of Italy. And he put together a study. And the study is very clear.

If you don't do something in three years' time to push down the price of the energy and to make Europe competitive, especially by creating a capital market at the European Union level, the European Union economy is over. So now we pay three, four times higher price for the electricity than you do it in the United States, and five, six times higher price for gas than you do in United States.

How our companies can be competitive? It's impossible. And then you run a policy, and Donald Trump president will do so even more, to attract the capitals from all over the world to the United States. So the capital we move out from Europe to United States and to other places as well.

So now we remember back in a happy way, but that was very serious. So now at least one boost is out. The Americans not anymore on our chest, not kneeling on our chest. So it's an appeasement. So we think that life is happy and it will be even happier when we swept away the Brazilian bureaucrats and the other boost is down. That's the plan.

So we have to do something to keep the capital inside the European Union, but we don't have a strategy how to do it. So now the European Union is really at a watershed. But you have ended global warming.

Hungary has a nice climate. But taking seriously the global responsibility, of course, but the problem is not the global climate issue. The problem is that if you would like to find a solution for a global issue like climate issue, you can't do it against the business community.

So if you don't convince the business community that they could be part of this whole process, involvement again, to involve them into that policy. If you don't do that, but ideologically-led political movement, green movement, you do like that, it's hopeless. It will be not successful. Look at the Green Deal. Green Deal is dead. It's a suicide attempt for the European Union.

Nobody is sharing of that. We do it and we kill our industry. So if you would like to have a good green policy, you need the business, the business leaders, and the common strategy. That's the only way. Otherwise, we end up as we are today.

And the problem is that the European institutions cannot reform it, cannot provide leadership because it's a strange creature of the European Union. So the only possibility to have a leadership if the French and the German government is strong, stable, visionary, and take the lead. Right. which is not the case at this moment.

So we have a strategy anyway. Hungary, that's my job anyway. We have a strategy, of course. And Central European leaders have their own strategy. So our main criticism to the European Union at this moment, that they launch wars with everybody who could be important partners for your economy. We launch a war on ideology, Donald Trump, President Donald Trump.

We launch a war with China on trade issues. We initiated the tariff war with China. And then we launch a war with Russia on energy. So why is it a good policy? In Central Europe, we did just the opposite. We built up a good relation with the new Republican administration. 44% of all European investment from China arrived to Hungary last year. 44% of all European.

And we maintained the communication and cooperation even with the Russians. So connectivity is the word, not blocking. The European Union tried to build a block instead of running a strategy based on connectivity and do a common sense-based business with everybody who can provide something good for the European Union. But Central Europe does exactly what I'm saying about.

Slovaks do it, Hungary do it, Serbia do it.

It's so ridiculous that it's always a dilemma to me to react at all or not. But, okay, if I take it seriously, you know, I am not a pro-Putin man. I'm a pro-Hungarian guy, you know, because my job is to serve my nation. That's first. Second, we have some memories with the Russians. It's not a honeymoon anyway.

You know, Hungary, just to the audience, Hungary is dominated by always three major powers. One, Germany, I mean, Berlin, then Moscow, and Istanbul. So we are living just in the middle of that. Each of them occupied at least once. Russian street, you know? So that's the menu card, what you have if you are living in that peculiar part of the European Union. Sounds like a lot of fun.

So therefore, I decided when I came back to power in 2010, and I made a deal with President Russia, President Putin, that whatever was the history between the two nations, let it to the historians and discuss it. And we should find a reasonable cooperation and do it economically as much as we had. And we did. And it worked. It was good. You know, Russians always kept their words.

When we agreed on anything with Putin, that was done on my side as well. So therefore, my attitude to the Russians is not that negative and crazy as many of the Western leaders at this moment. And my position on this war between Ukraine and Russia always said that, guys, don't forget that this war is not about Ukraine. Don't make a mistake.

The strategical reason of this war is called enlargement of NATO. So the question is whether we would like to enlarge NATO or not. If we would like to enlarge NATO, the Russians will never accept it. Whether you like it or not, you know, they will not let us to move closer to their borders. But this is the main issue, enlargement of NATO.

So then when the war has broken because Russia invaded Ukraine finally to stop the NATO membership and occupy the territories, I said to my colleagues that we should isolate NATO As much as we can and as soon as we can, this whole conflict. Otherwise, the conflict will accelerate, eating up more and more money, more and more casualties, more and more deaths, now hundreds of thousands of widows.

When two Slavic nations are in war, it's serious. Because they are both military-based nations. So it's a tragedy what's going on. It's really brutal. It's not just a geopolitical game, you know. It's a human tragedy anyway. So I said, we should isolate them and stop killing. But what now the Western strategy is that keep killing as long as it takes. So that's what they are doing.

So unfortunately, I remain alone. We voted, and I was the only one who was against the involvement of European Union to the war. Later on now, the Slovakians follow the same track, plus Vatican. So Vatican, Slovaks, and Hungary. And now, Donald Trump president.

So that's a new story because your president following exactly the same track, which was offered by us, I mean, by Hungary in the last three years. So another good news.

Is it my job to answer to that?

So first of all, I think those who love conspiracy theories are in trouble. They have to find new ones because the old one proved to be true. So that's the first probably. It's a massive problem in the United States. The second is that... You know, it's a taxpayer money.

No, you don't. When I will, in my years in pension, I'm ready to answer to that. I'll try to survive rather.

So just start with a very narrow Hungarian approach. Because of the sanctions and the war, we are losing every year around 7 billion euros. Hungary is a small country, can you imagine? Just Hungary? Just Hungary, just Hungary, just Hungary. So altogether, we don't know the figures exactly, but Europe spent close to 200 billion euro, which is out of the European economy. So it's a sum.

That's first. Second, we isolated ourselves from the Russian economy, including the energy, which will have a long-term impact on us as well, as I said, losing our working, well-functioning economic strategy as a basis of the European economy. The third one is the migrants. I mean, they are not migrants, they are really refugees. So the Ukrainians left the country.

Nobody knows exactly how many, but tens of millions. So we are speaking about a country which one fifth or one fourth of the territory is occupied by Russia. The industrial area is totally destroyed and the people are just escaping. So it's really a tragedy. And if President Trump is not able to find a solution, That war could become easily an Afghanistan for the European Union.

Endless war, endless conflict, no way out of the conflict, eating up energy, human lives, money, everything, destroying the frame of normal life for the European Union. So we are in a serious danger. The difficulty is, and that's not my challenge, but it's a challenge to President Trump, how to convince the Russians to stop the war while the Russians are basically winning.

This is the big question. Luckily enough, it's not my job to find an answer again. But I'm convinced that if you try to find a solution just directly on the war between Russia and Ukraine, you will never find a solution.

So we should make a bigger basket to incorporate the issue of reintegration of Russia into the international security order, to reintegrate Russia into the European security system, and to find a way of economic cooperation, basically energy. Plus Ukraine. If you make that kind of bigger basket, probably there is a chance for the deal.

If it's narrowly, directly concentrating just Ukraine and Russia, it's a real challenge, intellectually and politically, to any president of the United States. But it's not my job again.

No way back. So I think, you know, we are different nations. It's not my job to make any comment neither on Russia, but Russia is a military-based country. So the mindset is about, okay, the mindset for you, mindset for me, when we speak about democracy, what is the first question which came to my mind? You concentrate your ideas around freedom, yeah? Of course.

So if you take it, this whole thing, not as a political one, but rather as a moral issue. The fact is that the liberal elite of the West used the taxpayers' money of United States citizens to spread their ideology all around the world. And financed in Hungary more than 60 NGOs, paid politicians, media outlets, you know. So it was a... It was a plot against our sovereignty and independence.

Okay, but it's not the case in Russia. In case of Russia, it's security of the nation. than democracy and other issues, which are important, but the number one is, because it's a too big country, to keep it together, it is number one historical challenge and mission for the leaders. So it's a different mindset again.

So if you have that kind of country and you insult them politically, try to isolate them politically, try to kill them economically, then support his enemy by all the means. And after a few years you say, no, We don't think too much seriously, so come back and cooperate with us. It doesn't work.

So we made a historical mistake, which is decisive for at least 100 years, and based CEMENT, the Chinese-Russian cooperation, for 100 years. So we have to see that kind of block as a block. Probably Russia will make a deal with us on many issues, but we'll never give up that kind of final background, what China means.

If you would be in the shoes of Vladimir Putin, I think you would do the same thing. Never give up that kind of background, which was the real and only background. Can you imagine if the China would not be in that relation with Russia and use the possibility being attacked from West and try to squeeze from the East Russia, you know? But Chinese did not do so.

They said, we don't accept that kind of Western approach to this war. So it's historic. It's not just a war of the decade. It will have an impact for long, long, long, long decades. We will live with that. Even our kids will live in that age. But Russia will never come back to the West as it was. Never again. Sorry to say that. I'm not happy with that because... Russia is too close to Hungary.

And the Ukraine. What is basically, again, the problem? The Russians accepted, in a very difficult way, that Central European countries like my home, Hungary, became members of NATO. They always criticized that move. saying that it's unfair because it was promised.

Nobody knows exactly whether it did happen or not, but it was promised that the ex-Soviet Union-dominated territories will now join NATO. But we did. Good for us anyway. And the Russians started to live with that. In that concept, Ukraine was the buffer zone between NATO and Russia.

And then now, as we started to incorporate more and more Ukraine, first at the military level, developing their army, then even at the diplomatic level to speak about the possible membership of Ukraine to NATO, we converted the buffer zone into a war zone. So it's not anymore a buffer zone. That's the problem. And it's history. It's not about one or two decades issue.

So how we imagine the territory between the NATO and Russia, how we call it and how to manage it, how we provide the future for the people and the territory. So these are the real big and difficult challenges ahead of us. One big change. When we jumped into the war, that was always my argument to the Westerners that, Don't consider that war as our own war. It's not a war of the West.

It's a war between two Slavic nations, a brutal but a brotherhood war. Russians and Ukrainians, isolate them, help them, but don't say that this is our war. That's exactly what you have done. Basically, Biden president came to Warsaw and said, Putin must fail. Guys, it means that you are in the war. So why we have done it? Nobody knows the answer of that. So it was a very short-sighted idea.

Probably they thought that they could weaken Russia. I was always sure at the very first moment that a war will make Russia stronger than it was prior to the war. That's our history. First World War, Second World War. When they start the war, they are weaker. As the war is going ahead, they are getting stronger and stronger and stronger.

Sorry, made by you. I know. Sorry. But this is the case. And the same has happened from the Brazilian budget, which is even more scandalous, may I say, because we pay the money in the Brazilian budget and they finance our enemies at home. So what's going on? So this is the liberal deep state, the global liberal deep state. And now we see how it has operated. It raises a deep question of motive.

I think two reasons. One is that they have an interpretation of the Second World War. that Russia was able to win against Germany just because the Anglo-Saxons supported them. That's first. Second, you know... May I ask you to pause? And you don't believe that's true? I think to a certain extent it was true.

So a lot of support came from the United States, especially to Russia, especially ammunition, weapons, and so on. So I can't say that that was the precondition. I don't underestimate the heroic attempts of the Russians to defend their own land, even against the Hungarians anyway, because we were on the other side. But it's true that the alliance with the West

played a role that Russia was able to survive the German attacks. So that's exaggeration on the Western side of that story, probably. And the second, don't forget that in the 90s, in the 90s, I was prime minister when President Putin came into power, 1990. I was first time prime minister at that time. And I do remember how was the 90s. In the 90s,

There was the Washington Consensus, which is a theory of how to reorganize the world economy, privatization, competitiveness, and so on. And global capitalists started to invest into Russia, and they had a feeling that now they find the key how to integrate the Russian economy and the huge, vast Russian territories and raw materials, energy supply territories into the world economy.

That was the 90s. And they did it. They made a huge amount of money. George Soros, who I always would focus to follow anyway to understand what's going on, did it. But the Russians were not satisfied with that at all. And then there was a change. President Putin came to power and said, guys, this integration to the world economy, not the way which is serving the interest of Russia.

And they cut many things. And many Americans and European investors have to realize some losses. And I think the idea that they were so close to get it, to get the major source of the profit, and it was stopped by the same man, there is a personal revenge element in their way of thinking. I'm sure of that. Sorry, that's too much probably to say about it.

The Russians had their own concept how they would like to be integrated into the world economy. And that concept was different from the American concept and from the European concept, of course. Hungary is part of that. So when we realized what is the new strategy of the Russians, the Hungarian companies went to Russia to make their business.

I'm sure that from the Emirates they are doing their businesses as well, and the Saudis and others. So they would not like to be isolated. They would be part of the world economy based on the Russian interest, not on the Washington consensus principles or something like that, you know? But it's their country. Whether we like it or not, whether we agree or not, it's their country.

They make their choice. If it's their decision, we have to adjust ourselves, not to force them to change their mind. It's not our job. At least this is the Hungarian approach. Probably not the American, but definitely the Central European. They are too close. Don't forget they're too close.

First of all, even if I have many critical remarks, it does not matter if you take the proper vantage point to see what has happened in Ukraine in the last years. They decided to go into a war. to defend their own territory, their own right to join NATO and to be part of the Western architecture, security and economic architecture. That was their decision. And they fight for it.

And they lost hundreds of thousands of lives. And they fight heroically. So I'm very cautious to make any critical remarks on the president or Ukraine. Because what they have done is really something heroic and historical. To resist to that power like Russia for that long time, you know. So it's...

Whatever political mistakes they have done, the fact itself, the fight and sacrifice is something we have to say that's really heroic. So that's number one. Number two, I think it was a misunderstanding on their behalf the real intention of the West. And they thought that the West will support them forever. And therefore, their behavior was not exactly as it would be seen as normal.

Because if you are in trouble, you need help, you are going to somewhere to ask, it's not the right tone as they communicate with us. Anyway, so. But they thought that they can do so. Because the West will remain behind them forever. If you understand well the history of the Western politics, this is a misconception, may I say. That's not what the West did in the last several years. No, no.

It should be not naive, I think so. One motivation is always money. So that was a way how the American Democrats thought they can open the gates for their business activity. If they change the governments which insisted on having sovereignty and standing and fight for themselves, it's more difficult to find business possibilities for those speculators. Soros is a Hungarian guy.

So I was sure that sooner or later they will be let alone and say, guys, war is over, financial support is over, military support is over, let's make a deal. Even if you have huge losses, this is the right moment. We would not like to risk World War III. We would not like to risk a direct conflict with Russia on military fields.

So my heart is with the Ukrainians, but they are in a big, big, big trouble because of the position they have now on this whole issue.

So, just again, very cautiously. And now everybody thinks that we have a problem called Russia, which is true. But then soon we will have another problem called Ukraine. Yes.

You live in the United States, and it's probably difficult to imagine the strength of liberal dictatorship of public life we are living under in Europe. So, you know, the pressure from the liberal public opinion is so strong on the leaders that in the last three years, all the European leaders follow the same track.

So try to imagine that a big European nation leader says that we have to support Ukraine, whatever does it take. We have to do, this is a moral-based position. We can't change it. and they should join NATO, and we are arguing in favor of that.

And then, just to say next weekend, guys, there are some changes in the world, so our principally based position is over, and now, you know, turn like that. So to make that change with the present leadership, it's difficult to imagine. I would not like to make nasty jokes, but now, because of the American decision, it's really time for sober up, But they are in the phase of re-drinking.

So it takes time to change the direction of the sheep. Just today they issued a paper, they issued a statement. The big European nation saying that they continue as they have done regardless of what the Americans have said. That's just this morning.

Yes, definitely. Even earlier. Really? Yeah, I think so. Serious guys. So strong men make peace. Weak men make war. That's so simple. Now we have strong leaders.

I think history, for all the criticism you've taken, will— Don't forget that I have another record I hold. It's more important. Longest-serving leader of opposition in Europe.

16 years just because I'm just because I'm accused not to be democratic you know don't forget that okay 19 years in government that's something but 16 years in opposition and to lead up that's even more so I had that record as well so I know the both side of democracy the sunny one and the raining one as well

So I never left politics, even I lost the election, so I'm a political animal who is running a democratic political architecture and machinery in my country.

George Soros kind of speculators can find easier way to generate money and to make profit on your economy. So that's the number one motivation. But the second one, don't forget that leftists are always ideologically driven. And they believe certain things, which for us sounds crazy, even embarrassing, you know, frightening. But they believe it.

When I was in opposition, I had more time to deal with football. Which is a real issue anyway.

We do run that. So I run that kind of opinion polls. So I have a view on all European countries. And I can say that the majority is moving to the peace position. And the pro-peace is bigger now. There's a majority of the pro-peace in the European public opinion in general.

There are some one or two countries which is exceptional, all the others belonging to the same track, more, more, more for peace. But there is another opinion, Paul, which is even more important. I would not like to divert this conversation, but we run every year and we ask the Europeans, what do you think about the life of your children?

Will they have a better future and better life than you have now, or it will be worse? And you know, all the Western countries says worse. All the Central European countries says better. So this is the real difference now inside the continent between the Western countries and the Central European countries.

So we still believe ex-occupied countries by the Soviet Union, communist dictatorship, regardless of that, we still believe that we can create a better future for our kids than we live today, but the Westerners think just the opposite of that. So that's another very interesting structural difference inside the single market and the European Union.

Because, that's one, but the other one, what we have now, we fight for. We fought for it. Democracy, freedom. The Western generations who are now in power and ruling the countries, when they were born, there was democracy and freedom in the Western part of Europe. I spent 26 years of my life in communist dictatorship. I haven't inherited freedom or democracy. We fought for it. We did it.

We get it. So we fought for it. So therefore, we are absolutely convinced that we did it not in vain. It was a science. And we are able to create and build up countries, Central Europe, after 45 years of Soviet occupation and communist dictatorship, which our kids will enjoy and deserve. So... Democracy and freedom in eastern and central part of Europe is a serious thing. It's part of our life.

It belongs to our heart. It's the essence of our life. Investor societies, you know, they inherited. It's a given thing. even the middle class while living a convenient way of life also. So when you look at the European Union and Europe, don't think that it's the same everywhere. So there are differences, not just on national basis, but on historical basis as well.

And I don't know what is the future of Western Europe, but I'm totally convinced that Central Europe and Eastern Europe Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Serbia has a definite bright future. I'm sure of that. I am too. Mr. Prime Minister, thank you. Thank you very much. That was wonderful.

In Europe, probably it's difficult to understand, but I'm sure that the leaders of the left in Western Europe deeply convinced that if they let the migrants in, which are basically Muslims, poor Muslim persons, and let them to... to be combined with the traditional Christian society, and they manage a kind of integration, the outcome of this whole process will be a better and happier society.

And that's the reason why George Soros published his plan. It was signed by himself, saying that the European Union should let one million migrants every year to move to Europe. And then, you know, I always said that It belongs to the decision of the national government. So if the Germans or the French would like to make that historical research project, how to improve their society, let's do it.

But let us those who do not believe that the outcome will be a good thing, not to do that. So Hungary never tried to educate anybody how a society could be better or worse. We always said that, guys, let us to make our own decision. And to let migrants in or keep them out is exclusively belonging to our nations as a decision.

So don't force us from Brussels or from Washington that migration is good and those who are not let the migrants in definitely must be bad guys. So this is unacceptable. But that was the thing. But Donald Trump changed the mindset of the West. I think this is the key issue. So probably Donald Trump president will change the geopolitics as well. I hope so anyway.

But he already made a huge change in the mindset of the political thinking of the West. Previously, they said migration is good. To resist to migration is bad. Now it's just the opposite. To defend your interest is good. Migration, illegal migration especially, is bad. Then on the Green Deal... They said green is good, economic competitiveness does not count.

Now it's obvious that economic competitiveness first and green issues just the second. And then on religious communities and values, Christianity in our case, you know, it was said that this belonged to the middle age. They made us ridiculous several times, making jokes on us and so on. But now the president said it's a respectful thing.

The community of the believers must enjoy respect, which is good for our society. Or then family in the West. The mindset was that family is also belonging to the past and other configuration of living together persons is preferable. Now it's back. Traditional values are better than this whole thing. And gender, which is a crazy gender propaganda. Now it's publicly said it's bad.

To defend traditional values is good. And war. You know, in Europe in the last... Three years, it was said always that war is good, peace is bad, concerning Ukraine-Russia war. So those who argued in favor of peace and peace negotiations and communications said, you are bad guys. The good guys are who are arguing in favor of war. So now it's totally changed.

So Donald Trump president already changed the mindset of the whole Western world. That's where we are at this moment, and it's very good for Hungary.

That would request a deeper understanding of the intellectual history of the European political thinking. But there was always a strong leftist liberal community which was not proud being a Westerner. Always have perceived its own civilization as something bad. And their intention was not to make it stronger and to maintain and make it stronger, but rather to destroy, to improve by destroying.

That's a very communist idea, deleting the past. That was always the communist idea. So they don't like the West. They don't like their nation. Sometimes they are ashamed to belong to a nation because they think that nation is a bad thing.

So if you think that nation is something good and you are proud of it and you think that you have to work for your nation to be competitive and better than the others, it's an awful Nazis, you know, extreme right something. That's their approach. That's the tradition of the European left. And in the latest years, it was brutally witnessed in the everyday political discussion.

So I'm a fascist, you know, I'm sitting here like... I'm a bad guy. I'm a fascist. I'm middle-aged, feudalistic, Christian radicals. Who is arguing for peace, which is the worst thing. That's absurd, may I say.

You mean migration? Migration. Unrestricted migration. So we are living in, okay, under liberal dictatorship intellectually, but politically still we are living in democracies. So public opinion counts. And I think now we have a problem of democracy because of the migration. It's not just a problem of migration, problem of democracy.

Because if you have an elite which is not ready to accept the obvious public will of your voters, instead of accepting that forcing against the population their own crazy ideas, it raised the problem of democracy. So that's where we are, because now there's a quite strong shift in the mindset of the Western societies. Previously, at the beginning of the mass migration period, I'm speaking about

2015, 2016, there were half and half of the societies, even probably more than half was in favor of doing something good in favor of those who were considered as refugees. Then slowly but surely turned to be that they are not refugees, basically. They're changing their place. There are some of them refugees, but basically the majority of them would like to get a better life, simply.

And they are organized by smugglers. It's an international black business, you know, so it's an awful business. And now the terrorism somehow related to this whole changes just come up to the surface. It's never happened earlier. Terrorism was not part of the Western life anyway. If I remember back, the last one was in the 70s, some crazy communist Marxist group of Germany.

But after that, you know, terrorism is not part of the Western life. Violence of public life does not belong to us. But now terrorism is up. Public order is dispersing. So now the society is against the mass migration policy. So we'll comment culture, as it was called by Angela Merkel. Now it's totally negative.

And the problem is that the elite was so much committed to that ideology that now it's difficult to change their position. And that leads us to the problem of democracy. As we will see in Germany just soon, election is coming two weeks time. And you probably have realized that there were some surprising discussion in the German parliament whether to change the migration regulation or not.

And the public opinion said, 70% said, yes, you should change it. And they voted against it. So it's a problem of democracy. It's not just a problem of migration. It's not a problem of leadership. The whole structure and the system is under pressure at this moment.

So now we lost all the real attraction, what we have done previously, and Donald Trump take away all the attraction of the international politics. We have done something for 15 years in Hungary, in headwind, liberal headwind, stopping migration, defending traditional values, respecting religious communities, no Green Deal, low taxation.

Yes. But at the same time, don't forget that democracy is a word we use too much, probably too often without understanding exactly what does it mean. There are many theories, as you know. But the most relevant one is the Greek origin of the understanding of democracy. They said democracy means two things at the same time. Participation of the people, involvement.

But the involvement of the people must be resulted in good governance. If the involvement of the people, the public opinion, does not result in good governance, it's anarchy. It's not democracy. So democracy means participation of the people by their voting in the major decisions, and the outcome must be a good governance. It's one of them is lacking. It's not democracy.

And now in Europe, we are heading to a position when the people has a chance to vote, but there is no chance to get good governance. So we are moving, brother, towards a kind of anarchical public life in West Europe.