Thomas Kenniff
Appearances
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Look, the answer, unfortunately, probably not the one you're looking for, is we may never know. There are a variety of reasons why a criminal, certainly it's unusual, particularly this late in the proceedings. But there are reasons why a criminal defense attorney could make the request to get off the case and why the judge in certain situations could be convicted.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
constrained to grant it and one of them is you know if the attorney becomes conflicted um so it is possible for instance um particularly in these federal cases a lot of the discovery we refer to as 3500 material you don't get until the eve of trial um if it appears for instance let's say that the government is calling as a prosecution witness someone where there's a conflict
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
With the defense attorney or is it like I can't represent this client without being conflicted because of my prior relationship or current relationship with this witness? That could be one. There certainly could be other more sinister reasons. And those certainly may be at play here. We don't really know exactly.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Look, that is, you know, I mean, that that is certainly an inference one can draw. And I don't know. You're such a lawyer. Yeah. Listen, you have a lawyer on you get lawyerly answers. I don't know what to tell you. You know, there are situations like that that have occurred. And, you know, it's possible it could be something a little less sensational than page six would like to admit.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
But we don't know. But certainly at this stage in the case, it's eye opening. I'll give you that.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Well, one thing that I think your viewers and listeners should keep in mind, and a lot of people would have no reason to really perceive this unless they worked in the system, but the state system and the federal system are very different in a lot of ways. But one of the ways they're most different is
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
is on the state level, particularly in a place like New York City where I practice, we have this Persian bazaar type plea bargaining. Someone is charged with attempted murder, we'll let them plead to assault, then you'll get this many years and it's wrapped up nice and tight. On the federal level where Diddy, for better or worse, probably worse if you're him or his attorneys finds himself,
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
That's not the practice, particularly not in the Southern District of New York where this case is pending. A guilty plea in 99% of the cases in federal court means you plead guilty to the indictment. And then you look for mercy from the judge to deviate from the federal sentencing guidelines and give you a lesser sentence than you might otherwise be. fall into.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
The problem for Diddy is that the human trafficking charge in particular is one of the reasons why federal prosecutors love to charge this, carries with it a, yes, that he could be sentenced to life in prison, and that's a real possibility here, but at minimum, the most merciful judge, the most sympathetic judge could not deviate below the 15-year minimum sentence. Right.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
So I don't know the terms of any plea offer. If there was one, I don't think that's public. But if there was, the overwhelming likelihood is it had a cap of 15 years on it, which would make it probably a lot less enticing to someone in his position.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
I think, listen, I've had clients that see it in all different ways. I've had clients charged with homicide, and they would not plead guilty to a parking ticket if it was offered. I've had other clients that maybe have very strong defenses, but say, look, Tom, get me anything that guarantees me less jail than I might otherwise have to do, and I'm taking it because I don't have the risk tolerance.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
In this situation, look, you know, yes, a judge being most merciful could give him a 15-year minimum, couldn't go below that, but there's certainly no guarantee that a judge is going to do that, particularly a federal judge in the Southern District of New York. So, yes, he'd have a chance at 15 years, but the judge certainly could go higher than that, even with a plea.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
So when you start looking at it through that lens, and you're in his situation, and you have the ego, and you think you're in the right, then...
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
I mean, eight lawyers is certainly a large number. I mean, it's not uncommon to see defense teams in any high-profile criminal case, state or federal. You know, sometimes you'll see two, three, four lawyers, right, the OJ dreams teams.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it is getting up there. I think what you're starting to see what's more common nowadays is, you know, you may have a team of, you know, three or four attorneys, but you have other people assisting an allegation. For instance, in Daniel Penny's case, we had Joellen Demetrius. as our jury consultant. And she had us, they're not lawyers, but that's her expertise.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
So during jury selection, you had the, myself and Steven Razor at the defense table, and we had our jury selection team behind us. And then once the jury was picked, they went on their way. Then of course we had experts, as I'm sure we're going to see in this case. But yes, eight attorneys working on one case that is with one defendant, by the way.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
You know, it's interesting about this indictment, ordinarily or often, In these federal indictments, particularly cases involving racketeering, conspiracy, there's a number of defendants. So when you see the trial, you see all these lawyers, they're representing different people. Here you have eight attorneys representing one individual. That's high.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
It could. I mean, a couple of things to keep in mind. You know, generally the prosecution, you know, Robert, you know, in defense of his legal strategy, if not his conduct itself. you know, the Southern district, you're going up against the unlimited resources of the federal government.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Um, and again, particularly in the Southern district in Europe is considered the creme de la creme of federal prosecutors offices where they prosecute the bin Laden's of the world and many more. Um, you know, they're going to have a team of prosecutors. They're going to have their agents sitting at the table. So they will, they're going to have more than one or two lawyers themselves. Um,
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Do I still think aid is a lot, particularly having court sitting at the defense table? Absolutely. If no other reason, you don't want too many chefs in the kitchen. And it's good to have some diversity of opinion, diversity of skill. Sometimes, for instance, if you have a...
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
female witness, particularly in a case involving these kinds of allegations, you may want to, you may prefer to have a female lawyer deal with that witness, not because any, you know, gender is better at cross-examination than any other, but a female lawyer can be more aggressive, other things being equal towards a would be a vulnerable female witness than, let's say, somebody like me, right?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
So things like that. But yes, eight may be more than enough.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
And the first time around, I can't remember her name, but there was a woman from the Midwest. And now he has a female attorney who actually watched a lot of her cross last week. I was in the courtroom, Jennifer Bonjean, who I've known for a long time. She's very good. And she's working under Artie Adala, who's a very close friend of mine.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
So, yeah, I mean, more than one attorney, high profile case, very common. Sometimes you have two, sometimes three. You know, once you start getting north of that, it's, you know, it stands out a bit. Sure.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Yeah, certainly in a case like this. And look, one of the reasons why the feds are so successful, and it's not because the assistant US attorneys or all these brilliant trial lawyers, many of them are very, very good and they have great pedigree and so forth. So it's not a knock on them, but it really has to do with the tools they've been given to obtain convictions.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
They do not have to worry about resources. I said that already, the way your state's district attorney's offices do. The environment in a federal courtroom is much more controlled and lends itself much less to control. The sort of theatrics may not be the right word, but the defense attorneys have less room to roam in a federal court than in a state court.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
For example, in jury selection, jury selection in federal court, that's a stark difference between most any state court. I've been in and I've prosecuted cases in state courts in many different parts of the country. In addition, New York is, you know, void deer jury selection.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
We call void deer is an opportunity in state court to really start trying your case, start indoctrinating, start conditioning the jury to your theory of the case. In addition to weeding out the, you know, the ones you want and the ones you don't in federal court, the ability to do that is stymied.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Almost completely, because the judge reads questions to the jury that the judge, yes, you do get the request, the questions you want answered, asked and answered. By the time they get back to you, they're usually whittled down. The things you really want aren't in there. And then the judge conducts the jury selection in, again, a very stilted environment. That's a big thing.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Well, what what is going on here? I mean, in the federal the federal prosecutors, this is something they're very good at. This is, you know, Wiley trade, Wiley craft in their in their toolbox, if you will. And they do this.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
particularly here in this jurisdiction, where they will marry unsavory conduct, you know, conduct that makes us go, ew, or yuck, or even conduct, let's say, that may be criminal but is not subject to the indictment, right?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
So, you know, what his lawyers may say was really a domestic violence incident with him and his girlfriend, and it's horrific and all that, but it has nothing to do with racketeering, conspiracy, human trafficking, prostitution, and so forth.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Whether he buys in bulk or not, look, you know, so people, you know, do have sex parties, right? People in Hollywood, you know, whether they're music moguls.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
They have illicit sex. You know, there was the Playboy Nation, you know, that goes on. It is not always without consent. Even regular ordinary mortals, you know, you know, engage in all different, you know, swinging lifestyle.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
Right. So the baby oil in itself, I mean, if I'm a defense, I say, yeah, look, this guy had these wild sex parties. There was plenty of opportunity when you're a, you know, at the top of the hip hop industry, there's no shortage of willing participants and he used lubricants. Okay. News at 11. All right. Yeah.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
That would be a tough sell in my judgment. You know, but I think, you know, the the other reason and I know we're getting getting short on time. The other reason why federal prosecutors tend to be overwhelmingly successful is because the laws are written by Congress for them to use and prosecute and get convictions. Just the reality of it.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
You know, the sex trafficking, which is really where he faces the worst consequence here. There's three words to it by fraud. force or coercion, right? Well, we pretty much all understand what force is, right? You hold someone down and you know, they're an unwilling participant. When you start getting into things like fraud and coercion, then there's a question of, you know, what does that mean?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
I mean, is pouring someone a heavier glass of wine out on a date in the hope that you might loosen them up for later? Is that coercive? Is seducing someone with your prowess in the entertainment industry so that they believe that you might be able to arrange for them an audition or a part or what have you?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
or is that, you know, a casting couch? And so, you know, the prosecutors are going to have to prove a mens rea element here, that, you know, what he was doing was, you know, he was intending to subject these individuals to, you know, sexual conduct, you know, it was not of their own free will, their own free participation.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
And if he's on drugs and he's high himself and he thinks I'm just living this party and everyone loves hanging out with me because I'm Diddy, I don't know. 30 years of diminished capacity, though, that's a new one.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Shadow of Diddy Loomed Over the Met Gala, Plus Prince Harry's Performative Whining and Lying
All right. Great being here.