Susan Glasser

And actually, last year when I went back and did a big piece for The New Yorker on the kind of Republican fundraising in this post-Citizens United era and looking at basically the final co-opting of the Republican establishment on behalf of Donald Trump in the 2024 campaign,

And actually, last year when I went back and did a big piece for The New Yorker on the kind of Republican fundraising in this post-Citizens United era and looking at basically the final co-opting of the Republican establishment on behalf of Donald Trump in the 2024 campaign,

The amount of money that was flowing into Donald Trump's coffers in that campaign, that should have been this incredible warning sign for democracy. And of course, we all know now that Elon Musk managed to spend at a minimum around $300 million essentially to promote Trump and other Republican candidates and causes last year. It's just an extraordinary amount. And I think it's the classic thing.

The amount of money that was flowing into Donald Trump's coffers in that campaign, that should have been this incredible warning sign for democracy. And of course, we all know now that Elon Musk managed to spend at a minimum around $300 million essentially to promote Trump and other Republican candidates and causes last year. It's just an extraordinary amount. And I think it's the classic thing.

The red lines were crossed before people even understood that they were red lines. And now we're living in a world where what really frightens me is, as Eric said, that most of the watchdogs are gone. Most of the accountability that had been built in our system is gone. And even when journalists like Eric at The Times are doing this great reporting,

The red lines were crossed before people even understood that they were red lines. And now we're living in a world where what really frightens me is, as Eric said, that most of the watchdogs are gone. Most of the accountability that had been built in our system is gone. And even when journalists like Eric at The Times are doing this great reporting,

The public is, even those people who don't like Trump, I fear is supine, is overwhelmed, is unable to meaningfully process how serious a blow this is to our democracy. And actually, what I'm worried about, I don't know if both of you think this as well, what I'm worried about right now is that we're actually seeing corruption being institutionalized

The public is, even those people who don't like Trump, I fear is supine, is overwhelmed, is unable to meaningfully process how serious a blow this is to our democracy. And actually, what I'm worried about, I don't know if both of you think this as well, what I'm worried about right now is that we're actually seeing corruption being institutionalized

into our executive branch and Congress refusing to operate as any kind of a check and balance in ways that will actually have long-term ramifications even beyond the personal enrichment of Trump and his family.

into our executive branch and Congress refusing to operate as any kind of a check and balance in ways that will actually have long-term ramifications even beyond the personal enrichment of Trump and his family.

You know, I mean, I take the point, but I think that we're capable of holding multiple different levels of thoughts in our head. And, you know, the difference between the petty crook who keeps cash stashed in his freezer and the most powerful man in the world accepting billions of dollars in personal enrichment while at the same time negotiating major international problems.

You know, I mean, I take the point, but I think that we're capable of holding multiple different levels of thoughts in our head. And, you know, the difference between the petty crook who keeps cash stashed in his freezer and the most powerful man in the world accepting billions of dollars in personal enrichment while at the same time negotiating major international problems.

arrangements is so fundamentally different in scale, scope, and character that it is, of course, a much greater thing.

arrangements is so fundamentally different in scale, scope, and character that it is, of course, a much greater thing.

There are sins and there are sins.

There are sins and there are sins.

Yes, it is. By the way, it's interesting. I think insider trading among members of Congress is a good example of something that they may finally be doing something about right now, which is something. But it's like handing out traffic tickets when the head of the city is a murderer. I mean, the scale of the actions that you're talking about are... so vastly different.

Yes, it is. By the way, it's interesting. I think insider trading among members of Congress is a good example of something that they may finally be doing something about right now, which is something. But it's like handing out traffic tickets when the head of the city is a murderer. I mean, the scale of the actions that you're talking about are... so vastly different.

And I think Eric is making a point here that, you know, imagine essentially if Andrew Carnegie or John D. Rockefeller was the president of the United States setting the rules by which he could have that railroad monopoly, you know, in the end of the 19th century and, you know, disabling his competitors and, you know, rigging the system in every possible way and performing both functions all at once.

And I think Eric is making a point here that, you know, imagine essentially if Andrew Carnegie or John D. Rockefeller was the president of the United States setting the rules by which he could have that railroad monopoly, you know, in the end of the 19th century and, you know, disabling his competitors and, you know, rigging the system in every possible way and performing both functions all at once.