Steve Ballmer

No, we did not. Remember, the key thing was we didn't charge for the operating system on an ongoing basis. We charged for it one time. If you got a new version, we charged another time. We did the same thing for BASIC and everything else because... At the time, you could think we were like a substitute for an R&D department, which means we were fixed price. It was only...

No, we did not. Remember, the key thing was we didn't charge for the operating system on an ongoing basis. We charged for it one time. If you got a new version, we charged another time. We did the same thing for BASIC and everything else because... At the time, you could think we were like a substitute for an R&D department, which means we were fixed price. It was only...

I don't know, four or five years later that we actually switched to licensing per unit as opposed to just fixed fee. Here it is. Pay us once and we're done.

I don't know, four or five years later that we actually switched to licensing per unit as opposed to just fixed fee. Here it is. Pay us once and we're done.

But IBM wanted this. Okay. IBM, they were experimenting with a different approach. They'd said, look, instead of us building everything all custom, we want to use some industry standard parts, components, because that'll let us be more agile, et cetera. So they didn't come in. loathe to any of this. They knew that was our business. They know that was digital research's business.

But IBM wanted this. Okay. IBM, they were experimenting with a different approach. They'd said, look, instead of us building everything all custom, we want to use some industry standard parts, components, because that'll let us be more agile, et cetera. So they didn't come in. loathe to any of this. They knew that was our business. They know that was digital research's business.

And they wanted to use an Intel part versus their own proprietary part. They didn't ask Intel to do them a custom part either. The notion was, we'll move fast. We'll get away from the IBM bureaucracy by taking this approach. So I wouldn't say that was the hardest convincing, if you will, in the story.

And they wanted to use an Intel part versus their own proprietary part. They didn't ask Intel to do them a custom part either. The notion was, we'll move fast. We'll get away from the IBM bureaucracy by taking this approach. So I wouldn't say that was the hardest convincing, if you will, in the story.

They were selling a lot of computers and making profit also. They would have been making more profit than we were at the time, just the way pricing worked. There was a little twisty in here, though, I should throw at you if you're curious.

They were selling a lot of computers and making profit also. They would have been making more profit than we were at the time, just the way pricing worked. There was a little twisty in here, though, I should throw at you if you're curious.

These things had something called the BIOS, basic input output system, which was the lowest, lowest layer of firmware, sort of first level software built into the hardware. And IBM had its own BIOS. And some applications became BIOS dependent. And so then the question is, who was going to do an IBM compatible BIOS? We weren't going to get into that game. We didn't want to have that.

These things had something called the BIOS, basic input output system, which was the lowest, lowest layer of firmware, sort of first level software built into the hardware. And IBM had its own BIOS. And some applications became BIOS dependent. And so then the question is, who was going to do an IBM compatible BIOS? We weren't going to get into that game. We didn't want to have that.

intellectual property, other arguments, but there were people then. Compaq ultimately became the big company. Compaq became the big company. I don't remember whether they wrote their own IBM-compatible BIOS, but they were the first one to be IBM-compatible. There were plenty of people who ran MS-DOS who were actually not IBM-compatible because they didn't do a compatible BIOS.

intellectual property, other arguments, but there were people then. Compaq ultimately became the big company. Compaq became the big company. I don't remember whether they wrote their own IBM-compatible BIOS, but they were the first one to be IBM-compatible. There were plenty of people who ran MS-DOS who were actually not IBM-compatible because they didn't do a compatible BIOS.

One thing you have to remember, because we live in the modern world now, when you say all the developers...

One thing you have to remember, because we live in the modern world now, when you say all the developers...

There were a couple of software companies that made packages for IBM mainframes, but almost everything was custom. So really, I would say we, a few other companies, but I would say we defined what a modern software business looked like.

There were a couple of software companies that made packages for IBM mainframes, but almost everything was custom. So really, I would say we, a few other companies, but I would say we defined what a modern software business looked like.

And the notion that there could be lots of developers, and there were some, but it's not like we think today, oh, there was developers doing lots of standard applications. No. And there was no licensing model, no business model, no nothing.

And the notion that there could be lots of developers, and there were some, but it's not like we think today, oh, there was developers doing lots of standard applications. No. And there was no licensing model, no business model, no nothing.