Sizwe Dhlomo

No, no, no.

No, no, no.

The flights were extremely cheap or relatively cheap compared to what they would have been like this time last year.

The flights were extremely cheap or relatively cheap compared to what they would have been like this time last year.

I suppose in theory, there's no way to stop him from coming. So if he came as Jay-Z's guest, for example, right? Yeah, that's true. If he comes as Jay-Z's guest, Ben Conn then say, hey, dude, you're not welcome here.

I suppose in theory, there's no way to stop him from coming. So if he came as Jay-Z's guest, for example, right? Yeah, that's true. If he comes as Jay-Z's guest, Ben Conn then say, hey, dude, you're not welcome here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

No, he's genuinely... Even how he handled that was... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God.

No, he's genuinely... Even how he handled that was... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God.

Thank you.

Thank you.

No, he doesn't.

No, he doesn't.

There's usually a party in everybody's dressing room. Yes. There was none of that. There was none of that. But there was by the end of the show. Yes.

There's usually a party in everybody's dressing room. Yes. There was none of that. There was none of that. But there was by the end of the show. Yes.

You just wish the internet doesn't exist. Yeah, I guess so. Well, in all fairness, I do need a certain, I think there's like a certain amount of accountability that they need to be held to.

You just wish the internet doesn't exist. Yeah, I guess so. Well, in all fairness, I do need a certain, I think there's like a certain amount of accountability that they need to be held to.

I think it was a combination of everything, actually.

I think it was a combination of everything, actually.

So you're seated there. Even before the show started. So if you go back and you listen to everything that leads up to Grammy weekend, right? The pre-parties and so on. That adds to the energy. The vibrancy of the city adds to the energy. And not that the city wasn't vibrant, but things were very different from, I'd say, Wednesday onwards. And that was evident.

So you're seated there. Even before the show started. So if you go back and you listen to everything that leads up to Grammy weekend, right? The pre-parties and so on. That adds to the energy. The vibrancy of the city adds to the energy. And not that the city wasn't vibrant, but things were very different from, I'd say, Wednesday onwards. And that was evident.

In the first writing meeting, we already agreed that the tone of the show would have to be different. Not to say the show's going to be sad, but we're observing a moment. And then by the time you get to the actual show, everything that you're saying, it ends up being bigger than the sum of its parts. So yes, Beyonce is emotional because it is a very big moment.

In the first writing meeting, we already agreed that the tone of the show would have to be different. Not to say the show's going to be sad, but we're observing a moment. And then by the time you get to the actual show, everything that you're saying, it ends up being bigger than the sum of its parts. So yes, Beyonce is emotional because it is a very big moment.

But also, you're correct, the people that do hand over the award to her do make it even that much more amplified. So I think it was all of that coming together and it ended up being beautiful in a way. Because if you look at the reviews now, when people speak about the show holistically, they're saying, best Grammys in however many years. Because that's really what TV is about.

But also, you're correct, the people that do hand over the award to her do make it even that much more amplified. So I think it was all of that coming together and it ended up being beautiful in a way. Because if you look at the reviews now, when people speak about the show holistically, they're saying, best Grammys in however many years. Because that's really what TV is about.

No, but okay, okay. On his behalf, I see why people are offended.

No, but okay, okay. On his behalf, I see why people are offended.

That rollercoaster of emotion is actually quite good sometimes. If you can cry this one moment, but also end up crying because you're joyful and you're happy that Beyonce finally clinched the award. That's what makes it beautiful. So it ultimately worked out.

That rollercoaster of emotion is actually quite good sometimes. If you can cry this one moment, but also end up crying because you're joyful and you're happy that Beyonce finally clinched the award. That's what makes it beautiful. So it ultimately worked out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

100%, it did. So in the beginning, as you correctly point out, people are kind of looking for permission to act a certain way, but they don't know how to act until you give them that direction, right? And so in the opening of the show, I think quickly people were there to celebrate artists and music, obviously it's music's biggest night, but you made them observe a moment initially.

100%, it did. So in the beginning, as you correctly point out, people are kind of looking for permission to act a certain way, but they don't know how to act until you give them that direction, right? And so in the opening of the show, I think quickly people were there to celebrate artists and music, obviously it's music's biggest night, but you made them observe a moment initially.

And they're like, okay, cool. We're with that. And then slowly the show started to open up with the performances, obviously the production, et cetera, and so on. And people started to feel good about it. Now, when you mentioned Kendrick, I can tell you right now, everybody, when the Kendrick announcement, well, because it happened twice in the live show, not the three awards he won before.

And they're like, okay, cool. We're with that. And then slowly the show started to open up with the performances, obviously the production, et cetera, and so on. And people started to feel good about it. Now, when you mentioned Kendrick, I can tell you right now, everybody, when the Kendrick announcement, well, because it happened twice in the live show, not the three awards he won before.

Both those instances, when Kendrick won, I think everybody in the building was happy for him. Everybody was happy. Yeah, yeah, they were. To the point where they literally sang along to Not Like Us until he stepped on stage. I'm a huge Drake fan.

Both those instances, when Kendrick won, I think everybody in the building was happy for him. Everybody was happy. Yeah, yeah, they were. To the point where they literally sang along to Not Like Us until he stepped on stage. I'm a huge Drake fan.

No, no, no, no. It already started to warm up. It had started to warm up long before that.

No, no, no, no. It already started to warm up. It had started to warm up long before that.

Oh, this guy. I can't even. I was going to say, this is actually the issue, though, with a lot of the, I'll say, podcast culture or the people that end up broadcasting without putting in the 10,000 hours, right? Because back in the day, if you ended up with any kind of a platform, you would have done things like a small television station or whatever it is. That's actually true.

Oh, this guy. I can't even. I was going to say, this is actually the issue, though, with a lot of the, I'll say, podcast culture or the people that end up broadcasting without putting in the 10,000 hours, right? Because back in the day, if you ended up with any kind of a platform, you would have done things like a small television station or whatever it is. That's actually true.

You've mentioned about the different set changes. Obviously, you have stage left and stage right. During Sabrina's performance, she had the part where she's by the porch. And at the end, I think they're supposed to clear the porch so that you can drop the stage on the left so that Cardi would come out of the performance. And I think there was a delay with clearing that.

You've mentioned about the different set changes. Obviously, you have stage left and stage right. During Sabrina's performance, she had the part where she's by the porch. And at the end, I think they're supposed to clear the porch so that you can drop the stage on the left so that Cardi would come out of the performance. And I think there was a delay with clearing that.

The stage couldn't drop fully. He delivered the link. And I think you had to buy, like, it looked like 20 seconds. Correct. My question is, and I've seen these things happen specifically with you, very, very special moments that the viewer doesn't get to understand because they don't know what was meant to happen to begin with. And things will go wrong in a major way. I've never seen you.

The stage couldn't drop fully. He delivered the link. And I think you had to buy, like, it looked like 20 seconds. Correct. My question is, and I've seen these things happen specifically with you, very, very special moments that the viewer doesn't get to understand because they don't know what was meant to happen to begin with. And things will go wrong in a major way. I've never seen you.

I've never heard you shout. I've never seen you lose your composure. Is that a matter of just experience or is that how you are as a person?

I've never heard you shout. I've never seen you lose your composure. Is that a matter of just experience or is that how you are as a person?

And you get to the point where you know how to deal with the red carpet moments, which is largely unscripted. Anything happens. Now, what you end up with is people that obviously have a very, very strong following, but they haven't got the experience behind them to be able to know to do something like that. Sorry.

And you get to the point where you know how to deal with the red carpet moments, which is largely unscripted. Anything happens. Now, what you end up with is people that obviously have a very, very strong following, but they haven't got the experience behind them to be able to know to do something like that. Sorry.

14,000?

14,000?

And it also compounds because the more you lose the room, the worse your performance becomes. And then even less compelling to even the viewer now.

And it also compounds because the more you lose the room, the worse your performance becomes. And then even less compelling to even the viewer now.

Like by far, by far. A lot of people were saying that as well.

Like by far, by far. A lot of people were saying that as well.

Inside the venue? Yeah.

Inside the venue? Yeah.

And I'll tell you why. Whenever there's been a big moment and Kanye knows that he can seize it, he will. Funny enough, MTV Awards, I don't even know what year it was, when he stepped on stage and Justice vs. Simeon won the video for Video of the Year. Yeah. And he had... What's that?

And I'll tell you why. Whenever there's been a big moment and Kanye knows that he can seize it, he will. Funny enough, MTV Awards, I don't even know what year it was, when he stepped on stage and Justice vs. Simeon won the video for Video of the Year. Yeah. And he had... What's that?

Oh, yeah. Anyway, that video. He had that video nominated.

Oh, yeah. Anyway, that video. He had that video nominated.

Yeah. So now Ben, to you, right? I guess in the same vein-

Yeah. So now Ben, to you, right? I guess in the same vein-

When you used to do... The Late Late Show... Which obviously you used to do... You're also EP of... There was in some ways... An extension of the work you do at the Grammys... So for example... The week leading up to the Grammys... Sometimes you'd have a guest on... That would throw forth to the Grammys... And if anything were to happen... Because it's only one night at the Grammys... If anything were to happen... On the Sunday evening...

When you used to do... The Late Late Show... Which obviously you used to do... You're also EP of... There was in some ways... An extension of the work you do at the Grammys... So for example... The week leading up to the Grammys... Sometimes you'd have a guest on... That would throw forth to the Grammys... And if anything were to happen... Because it's only one night at the Grammys... If anything were to happen... On the Sunday evening...

you'd have had an opportunity maybe on the Monday evening to interview whomever the person was, clarify whatever needs to be clarified, et cetera, and so on. Without the Late Late Show now, do you find that you don't get to do a do-over? Is that something that actually filters into your mind at all? Because I used to obviously see the synergy between the two shows.

you'd have had an opportunity maybe on the Monday evening to interview whomever the person was, clarify whatever needs to be clarified, et cetera, and so on. Without the Late Late Show now, do you find that you don't get to do a do-over? Is that something that actually filters into your mind at all? Because I used to obviously see the synergy between the two shows.

Just having, you know, been around in proximity to you guys, I'd see how the one would work with the other.

Just having, you know, been around in proximity to you guys, I'd see how the one would work with the other.

He does it, yeah. Yeah. Now, obviously, that was a long time ago. Maybe he's a different man now. Well, I don't think so. He seized the red carpet. Yes.

He does it, yeah. Yeah. Now, obviously, that was a long time ago. Maybe he's a different man now. Well, I don't think so. He seized the red carpet. Yes.

And isn't that kind of, I suppose, the nub and the joy of doing a show like the Grammys, that it's actually so consequential in so many people's lives. If you do one of your evening shows, one of your evening shows, yeah, you can make a person feel good. But you do the show on behalf of the Academy. It literally means so much to all of those artists that are in attendance at night.

And isn't that kind of, I suppose, the nub and the joy of doing a show like the Grammys, that it's actually so consequential in so many people's lives. If you do one of your evening shows, one of your evening shows, yeah, you can make a person feel good. But you do the show on behalf of the Academy. It literally means so much to all of those artists that are in attendance at night.

And so while you're not in charge of like who wins and who loses- you certainly are in charge for example of who gets to perform and in what way. That's right. Right. And you've also got a very personal relationship with the artists. I've seen it. I've experienced it. Does it ever get to a point where... Not all of them. That's exactly it. Does it ever get to a point where it adds to attention?

And so while you're not in charge of like who wins and who loses- you certainly are in charge for example of who gets to perform and in what way. That's right. Right. And you've also got a very personal relationship with the artists. I've seen it. I've experienced it. Does it ever get to a point where... Not all of them. That's exactly it. Does it ever get to a point where it adds to attention?

Or I suppose then will make your relationship even better because of a decision you've taken.

Or I suppose then will make your relationship even better because of a decision you've taken.

But why?

But why?

I want to interject on that because I get to experience that in a way that you guys never do. You all is in the control room. You all is backstage somewhere. Yeah. That vibe by the tables, I cannot begin to explain to you how much of a vibe that thing is. People love it. People love it. People move from table to table. During air breaks, people come over. Yo, so and so. Hugs.

I want to interject on that because I get to experience that in a way that you guys never do. You all is in the control room. You all is backstage somewhere. Yeah. That vibe by the tables, I cannot begin to explain to you how much of a vibe that thing is. People love it. People love it. People move from table to table. During air breaks, people come over. Yo, so and so. Hugs.

Oh, wow.

Oh, wow.

When you think about it, Anneli's fear, your fear, and my fear are the same fear.

When you think about it, Anneli's fear, your fear, and my fear are the same fear.

So, to kind of like break it down in a nutshell, you just got to ask yourself, are you comfortable with the world raising your child? If you were to set your child up into the wild, in the wilderness, which is the world, are you comfortable with the sort of person they'd come back as? Which speaks to your question and kind of speaks to my fear as well.

So, to kind of like break it down in a nutshell, you just got to ask yourself, are you comfortable with the world raising your child? If you were to set your child up into the wild, in the wilderness, which is the world, are you comfortable with the sort of person they'd come back as? Which speaks to your question and kind of speaks to my fear as well.

So now, did you explain to Alake, we'll call this anonymous kid X, why X's behavior is not acceptable in this household?

So now, did you explain to Alake, we'll call this anonymous kid X, why X's behavior is not acceptable in this household?

I'm also like, damn, man. This is a way to break up with a friend.

I'm also like, damn, man. This is a way to break up with a friend.

The visitor was sanctioned by the Minister of Tourism, right?

The visitor was sanctioned by the Minister of Tourism, right?

Yeah, so bad influences are everywhere.

Yeah, so bad influences are everywhere.

Not in my formative years, no.

Not in my formative years, no.

Wow. Because majority of the people that were around me were handpicked by my parents. Oh, we come back to the cousins. Exactly. Even my friends, it was really because my parents are friends with these people. And then they'd be like, we're going to so-and-so's house. And then, hey, okay, do me a favor, my friend. It's not like I sought out do me a favor to be my friend. It didn't work like that.

Wow. Because majority of the people that were around me were handpicked by my parents. Oh, we come back to the cousins. Exactly. Even my friends, it was really because my parents are friends with these people. And then they'd be like, we're going to so-and-so's house. And then, hey, okay, do me a favor, my friend. It's not like I sought out do me a favor to be my friend. It didn't work like that.

But here's my thinking and the approach. And obviously, I think you're doing it well. I think all you can do, look at it like coding. You just introduce the fundamentals, right? To your child. And then tell them... To my computer coding.

But here's my thinking and the approach. And obviously, I think you're doing it well. I think all you can do, look at it like coding. You just introduce the fundamentals, right? To your child. And then tell them... To my computer coding.

Okay. But even with human beings, because essentially it is a system anyway.

Okay. But even with human beings, because essentially it is a system anyway.

Because we're AI. Aren't we all? Aren't we all?

Because we're AI. Aren't we all? Aren't we all?

So you introduce these fundamentals.

So you introduce these fundamentals.

This program is tripping.

This program is tripping.

Right. So once you've got the fundamentals in place and they understand them, and obviously you guys are in agreement with what the fundamentals are, then you can go to like intermediate programming and tell them, okay, well, now with these fundamentals that you fully understand, what do you think the right thing to do in this situation is? And then he will tell you.

Right. So once you've got the fundamentals in place and they understand them, and obviously you guys are in agreement with what the fundamentals are, then you can go to like intermediate programming and tell them, okay, well, now with these fundamentals that you fully understand, what do you think the right thing to do in this situation is? And then he will tell you.

And then you go, well, actually, that is the wrong thing to do, Alaka, because if you do that, for example, Isaac, I know you're used to running, but there's a possibility you may slip and you can't get a glass and you will get impaled by this glass. That's why it's rather safer for you to just walk, right? By running, yeah, you save a little bit of time, but with no rush.

And then you go, well, actually, that is the wrong thing to do, Alaka, because if you do that, for example, Isaac, I know you're used to running, but there's a possibility you may slip and you can't get a glass and you will get impaled by this glass. That's why it's rather safer for you to just walk, right? By running, yeah, you save a little bit of time, but with no rush.

Then it's like, okay, cool.

Then it's like, okay, cool.

But that's how life is. What else?

But that's how life is. What else?

Logically, I knew everything. I unscrewed the TV too, but I had logic for it. Okay. I wanted to see how the TV worked. Oh, same with me. And as a result, I was able to fix things at home. I was a guy like, dude, maybe by like eight, I was a handyman at home.

Logically, I knew everything. I unscrewed the TV too, but I had logic for it. Okay. I wanted to see how the TV worked. Oh, same with me. And as a result, I was able to fix things at home. I was a guy like, dude, maybe by like eight, I was a handyman at home.

and my dad understood I couldn't have been the handyman unless I broke my toy but I'll tell you what when things were wrong and I fixed it without him paying a cent boy was he glad I broke that toy okay you see so that's the intermediate you see what now here's the thing now that's it's funny it comes it comes back around to like is there a reward on the other side there's always a reward

and my dad understood I couldn't have been the handyman unless I broke my toy but I'll tell you what when things were wrong and I fixed it without him paying a cent boy was he glad I broke that toy okay you see so that's the intermediate you see what now here's the thing now that's it's funny it comes it comes back around to like is there a reward on the other side there's always a reward

I'm told I was a highly inquisitive child. I guess I still am, even as an adult, right? And the thing with questions is you're just gathering data points. That's all you do. You're gathering data points. And you're going to later use those data points that you've collected and go, oh, okay. Well, when I asked Auntie Anneli this, she told me this and that. So maybe I should go this way.

I'm told I was a highly inquisitive child. I guess I still am, even as an adult, right? And the thing with questions is you're just gathering data points. That's all you do. You're gathering data points. And you're going to later use those data points that you've collected and go, oh, okay. Well, when I asked Auntie Anneli this, she told me this and that. So maybe I should go this way.

There's a lot of things I never got to experience and still have no inkling. I don't even want to experience them. But I've learned major lessons from other people and their experience of those things. So when you now withhold those answers and you just... Because I said so. You're nipping in the bud by saying, yes, because I said so.

There's a lot of things I never got to experience and still have no inkling. I don't even want to experience them. But I've learned major lessons from other people and their experience of those things. So when you now withhold those answers and you just... Because I said so. You're nipping in the bud by saying, yes, because I said so.

You are starving Isaac of the data points he needs in order for him to be able to come up with the decision, which will then obviously make sense to him.

You are starving Isaac of the data points he needs in order for him to be able to come up with the decision, which will then obviously make sense to him.

Why, Trevor?

Why, Trevor?

I did that. I thought about that. About what? Taking the car. Why didn't you do it? So, our driveway was like a bit of an incline. So, when I was leaving, I would have been fine. But then when I was driving back, the car obviously would have had like hummed a little bit. Then I thought, what if my dad thinks the car is getting stolen and then he shoots me?

I did that. I thought about that. About what? Taking the car. Why didn't you do it? So, our driveway was like a bit of an incline. So, when I was leaving, I would have been fine. But then when I was driving back, the car obviously would have had like hummed a little bit. Then I thought, what if my dad thinks the car is getting stolen and then he shoots me?

Then I was like, I would rather not take this car.

Then I was like, I would rather not take this car.

I thought, I thought, I thought, you know, what's the worst thing that could happen? He could think the car's getting stolen and shoot me.

I thought, I thought, I thought, you know, what's the worst thing that could happen? He could think the car's getting stolen and shoot me.

Until, okay, what's your time? What's your cutoff? I mean, you know.

Until, okay, what's your time? What's your cutoff? I mean, you know.

But our worries are all the same. This is interesting. Okay, so, okay, then let's... But wait, she raised a very good point. We just glossed over it. It actually is the answer.

But our worries are all the same. This is interesting. Okay, so, okay, then let's... But wait, she raised a very good point. We just glossed over it. It actually is the answer.

She spoke about his self-confidence, right? And belief in himself. Okay. That actually is the answer to everything. because if if for example I don't think it is but finish finish what you said okay it's answer to most things no no but keep going if his self-confidence is strong enough right peer pressure will never be an issue And we know, for example, that Alak is very smart already.

She spoke about his self-confidence, right? And belief in himself. Okay. That actually is the answer to everything. because if if for example I don't think it is but finish finish what you said okay it's answer to most things no no but keep going if his self-confidence is strong enough right peer pressure will never be an issue And we know, for example, that Alak is very smart already.

It depends how well I know you. It depends how well I know you. So with you guys, it's like, okay, you're pushing it now. So we are at the cusp.

It depends how well I know you. It depends how well I know you. So with you guys, it's like, okay, you're pushing it now. So we are at the cusp.

He's super smart. So he knows what right and wrong is. What usually sways people from wrong is the external influence. If he's strong enough and believes in himself, he can say, hey, dude, I hear what you're saying, but that's not how I was raised. That's not how we roll. And so already he's kind of insulated from the external influences of the world.

He's super smart. So he knows what right and wrong is. What usually sways people from wrong is the external influence. If he's strong enough and believes in himself, he can say, hey, dude, I hear what you're saying, but that's not how I was raised. That's not how we roll. And so already he's kind of insulated from the external influences of the world.

Not to say he'll never like go wrong, but he's unlikely to go as wrong as other people who are just amoebas and they go with the flow. A lot of people end up in trouble. They're like, yo, dude, I don't even want to be here.

Not to say he'll never like go wrong, but he's unlikely to go as wrong as other people who are just amoebas and they go with the flow. A lot of people end up in trouble. They're like, yo, dude, I don't even want to be here.

But the world knows.

But the world knows.

So Joe Biden's got a line, right? Joe Biden? Joe Biden, the rapper.

So Joe Biden's got a line, right? Joe Biden? Joe Biden, the rapper.

This is a rap line also, long before he did podcasts. And he speaks about mama raised me proper, the streets just molded me. The streets coded me, made me a better pedigree. Then he goes on to say things are complicated like Avril Lavigne said it'd be. But that's besides the point. Basically, when you go out into the world, the world will either affirm you or it will challenge you. Cool, right?

This is a rap line also, long before he did podcasts. And he speaks about mama raised me proper, the streets just molded me. The streets coded me, made me a better pedigree. Then he goes on to say things are complicated like Avril Lavigne said it'd be. But that's besides the point. Basically, when you go out into the world, the world will either affirm you or it will challenge you. Cool, right?

So with your fortitude, you'll go there and then you'll be like, no, my friend, that's not how this works. And very quickly, if you're a smart person, you will then learn, oh, damn, I'm wrong about this. However, if you are correct about your ways, the world will affirm you. And then you'll see, okay, this actually works. And that's how people end up rising to a certain point.

So with your fortitude, you'll go there and then you'll be like, no, my friend, that's not how this works. And very quickly, if you're a smart person, you will then learn, oh, damn, I'm wrong about this. However, if you are correct about your ways, the world will affirm you. And then you'll see, okay, this actually works. And that's how people end up rising to a certain point.

I can see what you said. If you're a friend, you should have said happy New Year.

I can see what you said. If you're a friend, you should have said happy New Year.

I mean, I can't speak to the second part of your thought process because that's more sociology. But the first one, which is economics, that makes sense. And even if you look at any economic textbook, it really just, it dictates that things will be that way. Because capital by its very nature is monopolistic. Right? Right. There are four factors of production, we are told.

I mean, I can't speak to the second part of your thought process because that's more sociology. But the first one, which is economics, that makes sense. And even if you look at any economic textbook, it really just, it dictates that things will be that way. Because capital by its very nature is monopolistic. Right? Right. There are four factors of production, we are told.

We're told it's capital, labor, entrepreneurship, and then, I suppose, land. But really, when you think about it, there's only one factor of production. It's capital. Because it's capital, you can buy the other three. Right. That's why the effect has been that money has always pulled back to... To money. Yes. Because once you've made the money, you realize, okay, I no longer need the labor.

We're told it's capital, labor, entrepreneurship, and then, I suppose, land. But really, when you think about it, there's only one factor of production. It's capital. Because it's capital, you can buy the other three. Right. That's why the effect has been that money has always pulled back to... To money. Yes. Because once you've made the money, you realize, okay, I no longer need the labor.

Now I can build AI and that will substitute the need for labor. Right. Okay. I no longer need entrepreneurship. I can go to India and hire a CEO. Okay. I no longer need, for example, land.

Now I can build AI and that will substitute the need for labor. Right. Okay. I no longer need entrepreneurship. I can go to India and hire a CEO. Okay. I no longer need, for example, land.

These are all the things. Capital will always supersede everything in a capitalistic society. So it's called capitalistic. Right. Don't call it labor-listic.

These are all the things. Capital will always supersede everything in a capitalistic society. So it's called capitalistic. Right. Don't call it labor-listic.

That's the reset.

That's the reset.

We, not me. Yes, all of us are.

We, not me. Yes, all of us are.

No. I don't want to be here for it.

No. I don't want to be here for it.

But Trevor's right in that it's obviously, it depends what sort of person you are, right? It's better to be living in very calm times and steady times.

But Trevor's right in that it's obviously, it depends what sort of person you are, right? It's better to be living in very calm times and steady times.

But you learn a lot if you're living on the cusp because that's where majority of change takes place.

But you learn a lot if you're living on the cusp because that's where majority of change takes place.

Yeah. If you look at us, we literally went from NLOG to digital. That alone will blow many people's minds. Yes. Crazy. The things that we've seen. We went from dat recorders to CDs to cassette tapes to VHS to see your bro.

Yeah. If you look at us, we literally went from NLOG to digital. That alone will blow many people's minds. Yes. Crazy. The things that we've seen. We went from dat recorders to CDs to cassette tapes to VHS to see your bro.

A revolution, you'll know. Blood will be spilled. Not necessarily blood will be spilled, but you wouldn't be sitting here talking about COVID as a revolution. You'd know for a fact.

A revolution, you'll know. Blood will be spilled. Not necessarily blood will be spilled, but you wouldn't be sitting here talking about COVID as a revolution. You'd know for a fact.

Cuban revolution. Yes. Well, Arab Spring somewhat, but regimes change. Yes.

Cuban revolution. Yes. Well, Arab Spring somewhat, but regimes change. Yes.

Not necessarily. Not necessarily. They can be peaceful. Like in 1994, South Africa had a revolution, but a peaceful revolution. More or less.

Not necessarily. Not necessarily. They can be peaceful. Like in 1994, South Africa had a revolution, but a peaceful revolution. More or less.

This is why it's so interesting because all of it actually just boils down to economics and living conditions. Everything you've just highlighted is not a problem if people are comfortable. Yeah, completely. If we're all comfortable, I love AI. Because who wants to work? Yes. Let AI work.

This is why it's so interesting because all of it actually just boils down to economics and living conditions. Everything you've just highlighted is not a problem if people are comfortable. Yeah, completely. If we're all comfortable, I love AI. Because who wants to work? Yes. Let AI work.

If we're all comfortable and you're telling me you're going to bring in some Indian guy, hey, by all means, buddy, do the thing there. I'll suggest you have my time. Yeah, that's true. The problem is now when we're starving, they'll be like, hey, man, these foreigners are taking our jobs. That's the problem. That is the problem.

If we're all comfortable and you're telling me you're going to bring in some Indian guy, hey, by all means, buddy, do the thing there. I'll suggest you have my time. Yeah, that's true. The problem is now when we're starving, they'll be like, hey, man, these foreigners are taking our jobs. That's the problem. That is the problem.

Whereas if we were comfortable, we'd be like, hey, buddy, hey, I've got something here for you. You want to do this? Because I don't want to do it. That's essentially the issue.

Whereas if we were comfortable, we'd be like, hey, buddy, hey, I've got something here for you. You want to do this? Because I don't want to do it. That's essentially the issue.

And it can never happen. Wait, you think it can't happen? Never. Prosperity for all. It can. No, it cannot. No, but it can. Let me tell you why it can't happen.

And it can never happen. Wait, you think it can't happen? Never. Prosperity for all. It can. No, it cannot. No, but it can. Let me tell you why it can't happen.

So, Anel is right. There will always be disagreements. What I'm saying is when things are okay, the disagreements are inconsequential. Yes.

So, Anel is right. There will always be disagreements. What I'm saying is when things are okay, the disagreements are inconsequential. Yes.

So, There can never be prosperity for all because in order for people to prosper, there needs to be productivity and the productivity needs to come from somewhere. Now, what happens is you do get certain instances where there are more resources than there are those that defeat the resources. What it means is the model seems like it's working for a lot longer, but it's really not.

So, There can never be prosperity for all because in order for people to prosper, there needs to be productivity and the productivity needs to come from somewhere. Now, what happens is you do get certain instances where there are more resources than there are those that defeat the resources. What it means is the model seems like it's working for a lot longer, but it's really not.

The model is always deteriorating. That's just the nature of the model. You could be living in the Garden of Eden, but the more you procreate, the more you're going to run out of fruit in that garden.

The model is always deteriorating. That's just the nature of the model. You could be living in the Garden of Eden, but the more you procreate, the more you're going to run out of fruit in that garden.

The issue is not scarcity. It's about the distribution of resources.

The issue is not scarcity. It's about the distribution of resources.

Well, luckily, all of this has been thought of. Even the thing you just mentioned now about water going under your house. Yes. For example, the Romans, because they came up with land ownership, they kind of, they basically had a definition of what land ownership is, right? It'll be, I guess, the square meters or whatever the measurements will be.

Well, luckily, all of this has been thought of. Even the thing you just mentioned now about water going under your house. Yes. For example, the Romans, because they came up with land ownership, they kind of, they basically had a definition of what land ownership is, right? It'll be, I guess, the square meters or whatever the measurements will be.

And then it'll be everything on and above the ground belongs to you. Everything below the ground that belongs to the state.

And then it'll be everything on and above the ground belongs to you. Everything below the ground that belongs to the state.

That's, for example, what our mining laws are based on here in South Africa, right? Yeah. So if the water is flowing on top of your ground, that's your water. But the underground water is not yours.

That's, for example, what our mining laws are based on here in South Africa, right? Yeah. So if the water is flowing on top of your ground, that's your water. But the underground water is not yours.

Now, is it fair? It's obviously not fair, but I hear you.

Now, is it fair? It's obviously not fair, but I hear you.

It's like Nas' second album. It was written.

It's like Nas' second album. It was written.

So, generally speaking, as you correctly point out, the world is continually deteriorating. Yeah. And I feel like... Wait, wait, wait.

So, generally speaking, as you correctly point out, the world is continually deteriorating. Yeah. And I feel like... Wait, wait, wait.

But obviously, in the cycle, it's continuing to deteriorate.

But obviously, in the cycle, it's continuing to deteriorate.

Okay, great.

Okay, great.

It's going to hit drop bottom. Then we're going to need to rebuild. Okay, cool. Now, I worry that in the short term, because life is relatively short, right? To raise a kid in that environment is going to be very tumultuous. And the tools that personally I had to navigate the world, I see those tools becoming more and more useless every day. Can you give us an example of those tools?

It's going to hit drop bottom. Then we're going to need to rebuild. Okay, cool. Now, I worry that in the short term, because life is relatively short, right? To raise a kid in that environment is going to be very tumultuous. And the tools that personally I had to navigate the world, I see those tools becoming more and more useless every day. Can you give us an example of those tools?

I mean, just general things. Like, for example... Bullying, a very simple example. There used to be a safe haven for bullying.

I mean, just general things. Like, for example... Bullying, a very simple example. There used to be a safe haven for bullying.

Okay, sorry. So you're saying. So you could get bullied.

Okay, sorry. So you're saying. So you could get bullied.

So you could get bullied and then at 2.30, the bell would ring. You'd be like, shoo. That's so great.

So you could get bullied and then at 2.30, the bell would ring. You'd be like, shoo. That's so great.

100%. And when you're a kid, you really don't have the broadened vision to know, actually, what I can do is just turn off my phone.

100%. And when you're a kid, you really don't have the broadened vision to know, actually, what I can do is just turn off my phone.

Unless... Don't you feel like our youth kind of primed us for this, though?

Unless... Don't you feel like our youth kind of primed us for this, though?

Specifically like our youth in showbiz. Dude, we came out in a time where... I guess the review would have been A, the ratings, the show sucks, whatever.

Specifically like our youth in showbiz. Dude, we came out in a time where... I guess the review would have been A, the ratings, the show sucks, whatever.

That's why when I see... The kids that grew up now in the social media age. Yeah. Right. And I see how seriously they take social media.

That's why when I see... The kids that grew up now in the social media age. Yeah. Right. And I see how seriously they take social media.

I can understand it because for them, they were made by social media. If you're made by social media, you feel like you can be destroyed by social media.

I can understand it because for them, they were made by social media. If you're made by social media, you feel like you can be destroyed by social media.

Like, it feels like we're at a peak. So here's the thing. If I'm using Anele's departure points, right, then I don't necessarily want to take it to cancellation and loss of income. I would just look at it as just how humans interact. And the first thing is some people don't know who they are. That's the first thing. Okay.

Like, it feels like we're at a peak. So here's the thing. If I'm using Anele's departure points, right, then I don't necessarily want to take it to cancellation and loss of income. I would just look at it as just how humans interact. And the first thing is some people don't know who they are. That's the first thing. Okay.

In fact, in that analogy... I would think I'm somebody like Tony Hawk. I'm like the geriatric in a skate park.

In fact, in that analogy... I would think I'm somebody like Tony Hawk. I'm like the geriatric in a skate park.

I'm reading late. This nigga's even calling me.

I'm reading late. This nigga's even calling me.

Then other people know who they are, but they're uncomfortable with who they are.

Then other people know who they are, but they're uncomfortable with who they are.

So now, when you have a conversation, there are certain things that they want to hold back, specifically when they're with strangers, because they don't want the strangers to gain insights to the part that they're uncomfortable with.

So now, when you have a conversation, there are certain things that they want to hold back, specifically when they're with strangers, because they don't want the strangers to gain insights to the part that they're uncomfortable with.

And it could be anything. Maybe you're a freak. You're just like, ah, too much. So your friends should know you're a freak. Now your friends already know.

And it could be anything. Maybe you're a freak. You're just like, ah, too much. So your friends should know you're a freak. Now your friends already know.

There's nothing here that I can say that can shock you guys.

There's nothing here that I can say that can shock you guys.

So now we have those conversations. Then you go, okay, okay, okay. Turn it back a little bit. And again, it's not because you fear being canceled. It's just, again, there are certain things that are just appropriate and others that are inappropriate. That's all it is.

So now we have those conversations. Then you go, okay, okay, okay. Turn it back a little bit. And again, it's not because you fear being canceled. It's just, again, there are certain things that are just appropriate and others that are inappropriate. That's all it is.

You get like inner thoughts and outer thoughts.

You get like inner thoughts and outer thoughts.

So this year, per se, not too much. Last year, I was worried about maybe the possibility of World War III. I don't think that's going to happen now.

So this year, per se, not too much. Last year, I was worried about maybe the possibility of World War III. I don't think that's going to happen now.

Yeah, it's not going to happen now. Wow. These guys fumbled. They foobarred the bank. What? They fumbled the World War III? They fumbled the opportunity to start World War III.

Yeah, it's not going to happen now. Wow. These guys fumbled. They foobarred the bank. What? They fumbled the World War III? They fumbled the opportunity to start World War III.

Can somebody say it like that?

Can somebody say it like that?

so you're no longer worried about World War 3 I mean that's a great way to start but in the short to mid term I am worried about the type of world that my kids will grow up in. You've got kids? In theory. Okay. Guys, you never know. Your friends can now announce things. And it's more to what Anile was talking about as well, right?

so you're no longer worried about World War 3 I mean that's a great way to start but in the short to mid term I am worried about the type of world that my kids will grow up in. You've got kids? In theory. Okay. Guys, you never know. Your friends can now announce things. And it's more to what Anile was talking about as well, right?

Because you can do everything in your power to protect your children and those that you love within the ambit of your circle, but then they need to exist within a community, right? And when they go out... Hey, man, I'm seeing that we're just getting too liberal right now. And some of those things are going to come back to bite us.

Because you can do everything in your power to protect your children and those that you love within the ambit of your circle, but then they need to exist within a community, right? And when they go out... Hey, man, I'm seeing that we're just getting too liberal right now. And some of those things are going to come back to bite us.

I believed in it.

I believed in it.

But I'll tell you, I don't think this is anything new. If anything, I just think we need more perspective. Because if you go into history and just look at how each civilization has a lifespan, it usually ends like this.

But I'll tell you, I don't think this is anything new. If anything, I just think we need more perspective. Because if you go into history and just look at how each civilization has a lifespan, it usually ends like this.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, you don't.

Yeah, you don't.

So let me explain. Let me finish. You're 100% correct. So all civilizations do come to an end, but it has to be that way so that a new civilization may begin. You just have the kind of perspective now at your age, are you 40, 41, where you've seen things go from where they were to where they are. But it's not to say the world's going to end tomorrow. No, I don't even think that.

So let me explain. Let me finish. You're 100% correct. So all civilizations do come to an end, but it has to be that way so that a new civilization may begin. You just have the kind of perspective now at your age, are you 40, 41, where you've seen things go from where they were to where they are. But it's not to say the world's going to end tomorrow. No, I don't even think that.

But you're 100% correct. Things are deteriorating at a rapid rate.

But you're 100% correct. Things are deteriorating at a rapid rate.

Because we've been there.

Because we've been there.