Shaun Walker

Well, it's great to be back talking to you again, Dave. And yeah, I mean, the Soviet and then Russian illegals program, it does have some similarities with spying programs that a lot of countries use. But It's really something quite unique.

Well, it's great to be back talking to you again, Dave. And yeah, I mean, the Soviet and then Russian illegals program, it does have some similarities with spying programs that a lot of countries use. But It's really something quite unique.

Well, it's great to be back talking to you again, Dave. And yeah, I mean, the Soviet and then Russian illegals program, it does have some similarities with spying programs that a lot of countries use. But It's really something quite unique.

And that was sort of what kind of got me obsessed with the program over the last years when I've been researching this book, because I just felt that somehow understanding the illegals and understanding the way this extraordinary program works that evolved from right at the beginning of the Soviet Union, through the Cold War, through the collapse of the Soviet Union, and up to now.

And that was sort of what kind of got me obsessed with the program over the last years when I've been researching this book, because I just felt that somehow understanding the illegals and understanding the way this extraordinary program works that evolved from right at the beginning of the Soviet Union, through the Cold War, through the collapse of the Soviet Union, and up to now.

And that was sort of what kind of got me obsessed with the program over the last years when I've been researching this book, because I just felt that somehow understanding the illegals and understanding the way this extraordinary program works that evolved from right at the beginning of the Soviet Union, through the Cold War, through the collapse of the Soviet Union, and up to now.

At all these moments, there were so many moments in this program where you just think, okay, this doesn't quite make sense anymore to do this, to train these people for years, to spend, you know, one-on-one really intensive training for years on end until you have an operative that's ready to be sent out into another country and pose as someone with no links at all to Russia.

At all these moments, there were so many moments in this program where you just think, okay, this doesn't quite make sense anymore to do this, to train these people for years, to spend, you know, one-on-one really intensive training for years on end until you have an operative that's ready to be sent out into another country and pose as someone with no links at all to Russia.

At all these moments, there were so many moments in this program where you just think, okay, this doesn't quite make sense anymore to do this, to train these people for years, to spend, you know, one-on-one really intensive training for years on end until you have an operative that's ready to be sent out into another country and pose as someone with no links at all to Russia.

There's pretty much no other intelligence service that does that in this kind of scale.

There's pretty much no other intelligence service that does that in this kind of scale.

There's pretty much no other intelligence service that does that in this kind of scale.

So Lenin was the head of the Bolsheviks. And the Bolsheviks at this point before the revolution were a kind of close-knit conspiratorial underground group fighting the Tsar. Some of them were inside Russia. Some of them were in exile. And Lenin developed this concept that on the one hand, they were going to organize openly inside Russia. They would send people to the parliament.

So Lenin was the head of the Bolsheviks. And the Bolsheviks at this point before the revolution were a kind of close-knit conspiratorial underground group fighting the Tsar. Some of them were inside Russia. Some of them were in exile. And Lenin developed this concept that on the one hand, they were going to organize openly inside Russia. They would send people to the parliament.

So Lenin was the head of the Bolsheviks. And the Bolsheviks at this point before the revolution were a kind of close-knit conspiratorial underground group fighting the Tsar. Some of them were inside Russia. Some of them were in exile. And Lenin developed this concept that on the one hand, they were going to organize openly inside Russia. They would send people to the parliament.

They would work through trade unions. These would be the legal workers, but they'd also have illegals who would do clandestine organization. They would often live in disguise. They would be trying to keep one step ahead of the Tsar's secret police. And these illegals, they often had fake foreign identities. They lived under false documents. They had code names.

They would work through trade unions. These would be the legal workers, but they'd also have illegals who would do clandestine organization. They would often live in disguise. They would be trying to keep one step ahead of the Tsar's secret police. And these illegals, they often had fake foreign identities. They lived under false documents. They had code names.

They would work through trade unions. These would be the legal workers, but they'd also have illegals who would do clandestine organization. They would often live in disguise. They would be trying to keep one step ahead of the Tsar's secret police. And these illegals, they often had fake foreign identities. They lived under false documents. They had code names.

They wrote each other letters in invisible ink. Basically, they used a lot of spy craft. And so when Lenin and the Bolsheviks take over after the October revolution in 1917, they readapt a lot of this spy craft for their brand new intelligence service.

They wrote each other letters in invisible ink. Basically, they used a lot of spy craft. And so when Lenin and the Bolsheviks take over after the October revolution in 1917, they readapt a lot of this spy craft for their brand new intelligence service.