Shannon Race
Appearances
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And there's always like this push and pull of like, is this right? Is this not? And we did so much. I mean, the amount of research and surveys and just really trying to ensure that this was the right move. That's, you know, there was a lot of legwork. Leading up to that.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I mean, it's so different depending on category. Like there are brands, Poppy's a great example. They lean very heavily into their influencer marketing and it works so well because they've really positioned themselves in the space as a very culturally relevant brand. So TikTok was like their number one social platform.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Not only is Alison the founder such like an engaging personality on TikTok and was really able to kind of build a lot of very viral content around her founding story, you know, just her as a person. an aspirational person, but you know, that platform just served them so well from, from an influencer standpoint, but every brand is different.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Some, you know, some brands can go that path and it works really well. And others, you know, they need a more traditional approach, which might be, you know, kind of traditional ads that educate consumers or, um,
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
You know, we're actually, funnily enough, with Biome, like, kind of wrestling with this but working through this right now because we're trying to reeducate people on a category that's been around forever, that they have, like, a preconceived notion of, right?
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And then we're also trying to really dip into that lifestyle space that I know, like, tried and true through my years at Vital Proteins where – You know, I want people to see this as like a cool, sexy, fun brand and not, you know, the fiber products of, you know, generations past. A thousand percent.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah. I mean, first identifying a market space or an emerging market or a market that – You know, a lot of entrepreneurs have told me in the past, because I, you know, being in the CPG space, you become friends with so many people who are on these like very cutting edge brands.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And a lot of them are like, you know, I used to just like walk the grocery aisles and look at, you know, specific categories that I'm like, nobody's done anything in this space for so long. Like, why am I buying this? For instance, Heinz ketchup, you know, Primal Kitchen came out and now they have their cleaner ketchup. But it's like, why am I still, like, settling for this?
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
It has garbage ingredients in it, tons of sugar. Like, why wouldn't I create something better for consumers that are wanting, you know, less sugar, you know, cleaner ingredients, etc., etc. ? And so a lot of it is that, like physically going into a retail store and being like, something here, like why am I still buying these old, dodgy brands?
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And then others are, you know, you may be looking at market analysis reports and seeing that – there's a continued growth in a specific market. And you're like, huh, that's interesting. That's a signal that maybe this is something we should think about, like the energy category, for instance, huge explosive market.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
When you start to see brands and we have interesting insight because we get a lot of deal flow through the VC side. So you're starting to see, oh, there's definitely some patterns happening with I'm getting a lot of pitches for investing in energy beverages or you know, things like that. And you can kind of say, all right, there's something going on here.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Maybe I need to dive a little bit deeper into this market. For BioMe, it was really the former, which was that this was a category that just has not been touched in so long. And there's such a misconception around the benefits of fiber. And people just lack the understanding that fiber is a foundational component health and wellness tool. It is not just for when you can't go to the bathroom.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And that is the thing that, you know, I was like through my own gut health journey and everything going on with me personally, I didn't even think of fiber as a tool for gut health until maybe three years ago prior to, prior to this company forming. It's interesting.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
It feeds all of the beneficial bacteria in your gut. It is literally the food for your microbiome. But when you're going through... I mean, I'm not an expert in gut health, but I was on my own personal journey. And the things that I would read about is probiotics, collagen supplementations, good bone broths, things like that that can help reseal your gut lining, just eating healthy. There wasn't...
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I didn't recognize fiber as this critical source to kind of completing the pre-pro and post-biotic kind of trajectory that you're looking for in your GI tract.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah, and awareness.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Education.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Well, I mean, first and foremost, it's the ingredients. We went for very clean, very streamlined, like only what you need type of ingredients. Also ingredients that have a lot of clinically proven benefit to them. So like our daily probiotic fiber, for instance, which is like the number one product that we sell, it's just two clean ingredients. We have glyphosate residue free certifications.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
We have upcycled certifications, meaning that the food is, it's like upcycled, uh, ingredient sources. It's low fog map, you know, it's a non GMO project verified. All of those things were really important to us because I was like, I want like the top of the line, best fiber product on the market that is going to do what it says. And I keep you healthy in the process.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Why not just eat more vegetables or fruit? You should. Why take a supplement? But you should. And that's like the other thing too. I talk to people a lot. I'm like, I'm not saying only take fiber supplements. No. You need diversification of fiber. So you should be eating a lot of fiber in your diet. It's just that we live in this modern world with crazy schedules and lifestyles and
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
To get, for women, on the low end, 28 grams of fiber in your diet a day is really, really difficult. So like some visual examples for you, I think it's 10 cups of non-cooked spinach is 7 grams of fiber. There's... Yeah. So there's seven grams of fiber in one scoop of bio-me. So like when you start to think about it, you're like, holy crap, like that's a lot of spinach that I need to eat.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Excuse the pun. Or an apple is four grams with the core and the skin and everything. And so, I mean, I would never, ever, ever tell people not to eat their fiber. They absolutely should be eating their fiber, but this is a way to also help you meet your fiber goals and ensure diversity of the microbiome with different fiber sources that you're likely not getting through your diet.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
There are different sources for sure. There's also different types of fiber. There's soluble fiber versus insoluble fiber, which actually work in the gut a little bit differently. Your soluble fibers are actually going to create more of like a gel substance in your gut. And it helps with that absorption of nutrients. Sorry, I was like, what am I saying?
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
It helps slow down the digestive process. It helps you better absorb your nutrients. And so things like, I actually was just at a conference, an athletic conference over the weekend. A lot of athletes should be taking something like that alongside their protein post-workout because it's going to actually help you better metabolize your protein. So it helps with MPS and things like that.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
and just get more out of your nutrients. So that's a function of fiber that's really beneficial and soluble fiber specifically, whereas insoluble fiber, which is what you would associate with a Metamucil or in our case, we have a product called Fiber Rescue, is going to help really with cleaning out your GI tract. So it actually creates bulk to help you go to the bathroom and
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
basically detox your GI tract as it moves through. So different functions.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yes.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I think the women are the only ones that talk about it.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
But also it's just, it like, it hurts. It's uncomfortable.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Um, I – yeah, the – honestly, the Fiber Rescue product is, like, what I – everybody takes with them. I'm, like, constantly sending it to people because they're like, hey, I'm, like, going on this trip. And I just say, you know, I think I'm going to need it.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Just need to have like a running like, you know, Q-tape or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Within a day. Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
So should people take it like on the plane? No. So, and the reason being, because the way that it actually works is that it's pulling water in from, you know, your organs and internally to help bulk up the stool that causes you to go to the bathroom. If you're doing that on a plane where you're already getting super dehydrated, you're probably not going to feel the best. You might get a headache.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
You might just get more dehydrated quickly. So wait until you're off and rehydrated. And it's always important to just drink it with a lot of water anyway. So that would be my tip.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah. It's, you know, the amino acids in it and it creates almost like this coating, this like, and that helps calm inflammation in your GI tract. That was like, you know, when I started working at Vital, it was the first time that I was opened up to this world of more naturopathic ways of Healing your body and wellness.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And that was a huge, huge, huge unlock for me because I had been dealing with gut health issues since I was in middle school and kind of, you know, it's kind of sad, but, you know, developed a weird habit. relationship with food. I was scared to do things sometimes. If I would get sick randomly, it was embarrassing. It was a lot of emotions that came along with that.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And as I started to really do research and look at, oh, there's ways I can just heal this with food through eliminating foods that clearly are triggers that I may have some sort of intolerance to. And just kind of repair and restore more naturally. And that was a huge deal for me.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
In terms of like our brands or? Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Oh, what are we investing in? We're more in the growth space. In growth space. Yeah. Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
You'll start to see a trend, yeah, and types of deals that are coming through. And Also, too, we focus pretty much in consumer for the most part. So, you know, food, beverage, vitamins and supplements. There's consumer tech. There's, you know, there's a little bit of biotech in there, but mostly we're focused in CPG. Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah. So you do start to see trends. Like there was, you know, a massive trend in like everybody was making a bar and trying to make a healthier bar and, you know, things like that. Isn't that still a trend? I feel like there's certain things that never go out of style.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah, it is. But you also have to look at like, is there an actual differentiation in what's happening in that space? Or is that just a super saturated space that... You know, it would take so long for you to create something incredibly differentiated that actually might be interesting for an acquirer.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
So like the way that you think about it as an investor is not just whether or not this investment is going to, you know, pay me back, but like, is there an exit path here? Is there a way to actually see this investment through? And so, you know, you kind of have... You work with banks and you have access to what are different strategics looking for right now.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Most of the time, they have very specific categories that they're really focused on. They're trying to build up a portfolio in a specific segment. And so when you have that as kind of like a guiding light a little bit, you can kind of sift through a lot of the deal flow. with a little bit more of a focus.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah. It's a huge, huge, huge exit for the vitamins and supplements space.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
You know, well, frankly, there's a lot that's going on in the fiber space. There's a lot that's going on in women's health, specifically around menopause. You're seeing a lot of brick and mortar, actually, in kind of like the medispa space, which is interesting. What else have I recently seen? MediSpa being like… Like injection, like Botox, things like that.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
There's like a lot of these interesting emerging kind of franchise models. Everything you just said is exactly what I'm seeing. Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yes, yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah, peptides is another big one. Yep, yep. It's just really interesting. I also... I love, love, love to see that perimenopause and menopause are being talked about so much more. And brands are starting to cater towards that demographic of women that I think has just been forgotten since the beginning of time. It's just like, oh, good luck. Go to your doctor.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Sure.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
You're going to have hot flashes and lots of luck. But nobody's really talking about hormone health is just so incredibly important. for women throughout all stages of their life, frankly. I think a lot of hormone imbalance can effectively help keep people from experiencing a lot of kind of crazy things going on in their life as they go through each phase of their life.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Thank you.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Thank you. Thank you.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I mean, listen, it's really difficult. I think, you know, looking back at the Vital Proteins experience, we were kind of, it was a really interesting time. We were kind of in this precipice of, like, the world and media and how people were viewing vitamins and supplements was crazy. drastically changing. Vital proteins was also collagen supplements.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ,, career, what have you.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And that was very much a category creator, if you will. At the time when I started working there in 2016, nobody was talking about collagen, collagen supplementation. It's kind of laughable now. I think back like,
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
The girl who stepped into that office to start that job was like, I don't really even know what collagen, you know, is or does or what we're doing here, but I'm excited and ready to dig in and ready to be a part of this. And, you know, now it's like, you know, everybody takes collagen, so it's pretty wild.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
So there were some older brands that had been in the space for maybe a few years, but very, very focused on the nutraceuticals and the cosmetic products.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah. Is that a question you want me to answer? Yeah. I want you to ask. Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I think it's extremely important. Yeah. I mean, it's also too, it's like the first connection that people have with the brand. So when, also too, I mean, the way that we looked at it was like, traditionally what has been in the fiber space just feels very antiquated. It's like the stuff you see in your grandma's kitchen countertop.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And it's just like, there's nothing that, you know, is exciting and makes you want to connect with it in a meaningful way. We wanted this to feel sophisticated, sexy, smart, but like, I wouldn't be embarrassed to have this sitting on my countertop. Like nobody would look at that and be like, oh, you can't go to the bathroom. Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Frankly, there's a couple reasons why we went this direction. One was when I was really dreaming this whole thing up and what do I want it to look like? What do I want people to feel when they look at the brand? I was like, where is my happy place in life? What's my happy place in the world? And I love, love, love. I go with my parents pretty much every year to Positano and the Malfi Coast.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And it's just my happy place. It's where I make memories with family and people I love. And It's just always brought me like a sense of calm and peace. And so I just started pulling images and like the water and the sand. And I was like, I really wanted to live in this kind of like blue green sand gradient space, this world of like place that makes me feel happy, makes me feel refreshed.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Because you look at the category, just the supplement world in general, and there's just like, it's like freaking rainbows everywhere. And you're like, do I go with a core color or do I go with, every single product is a different color of the rainbow. And I just didn't want to go that way.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I wanted it to really feel like it maintained some sort of integrity, some credibility, something that felt scientific, but not unapproachable.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Okay.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Right. So there hadn't been a brand that came through in the collagen space that was really focused on fitness and lifestyle. And Vital Proteins and the collagen that Kurt created was fantastic. from his own personal journey, his health journey. He was a runner. He was really looking to, you know, create a product that runners could take and help extend the longevity of their joints.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
So it's really like I delved into the psychology of color. Is how, how do people, what colors create different emotions in people? And so for me, you know, yeah, sure. I could have barreled down a path of red, but that usually elicits some sort of like anger or frustration from people. It's not a very inviting cover. It's peace and calm. Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
So very much synergistic with what my kind of vision had been. But I, so I wanted, you know, I mean, that's something tactile you can take with you is like read up on the psychology of color, like be careful not to use like some crazy color that's going to make someone feel like a specific emotion unless you're trying to you know, elicit that.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
But the other thing too, is just clean and simple and easily understood, you know, when the, and this isn't really like a necessarily formulaic or like a science or something you can read up on, but think about what you want your consumer to get it. Like you want them to get across right away when they see your packaging first, you know, there's different hierarchies and packaging.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Do you want the name to be the first thing that they see? Do you want it to be the product name? How big in comparison? Do you want them to understand on front of packaging exactly what your product will do for them from a benefit standpoint? How do you want that to look? There's a lot of different layers to it, but I just was like clean, simple, straight to the point, and I wanted it to be.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
come across like they, it was trusted. They could trust that it was, you know, a brand with integrity. Okay. I like that.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I mean, the thing is, I'll speak on behalf of Startup Ventures because every VC is different. I mean, they're all doing different types of deals. We are more in the investing externally and growth. So I mean, obviously, revenue is a big factor. you know, gross margins? You know, do you have a path to profitability? What does the next, you know, 12 months of your innovation pipeline look like?
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Do you have the ability to expand into other categories to create more revenue on top of maybe a core line that you've already produced? Is there a right fit from like an exit standpoint? Like, is this something that strategics would want to acquire because it's complementary to a portfolio that they already have? So you're thinking through all of those things.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
But I think it's just from the world of Starshot, we're all brand builders, operators, owners. We've all been involved in this world from that place for a very long time. And so a lot of VC firms are like, we just want to put the capital in. We'll be here as an operational support if you need it. But we're hands off.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
We will go to the board meetings and get up to date on dealings with the business and whatever and make some suggestions here and there. But we don't really want to be too hands on. We're the exact opposite. I mean, we're putting capital into a business with a lot of executive team members that are experts in various parts of an organization, sales, finance, marketing, yada, yada.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And we want to be involved. Like we want to deeply be involved because we believe that we can actually help you accelerate your growth. So it's just different approach, truly. How about like traditional marketing? Is it just dead? Yeah. We'll define traditional marketing.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Like mail you get in your mailbox?
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And so that was like the birth of Vital Proteins and very differentiated from what was existing on the market. And, you know, as, you know, the evolution of the brand went, you know, we started dabbling in the beauty world and other areas too.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I mean, yes, print is tough. Print is dead. Print in the magazine world, I think, is really pretty dead. But TV, I mean, nobody's watching TV. Actually, I mean, but it's all kind of pivoted to streaming. And so you have all this opportunity with ad streaming and it's – Oh, that's true. That's huge. That's a huge – if you can afford it, that's huge. Because that's expensive. It can be.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And like it's really interesting because it's like as, you know, yes, at first when it came out, it was really expensive. Now it's starting to become less expensive because there's all of these interesting agencies that have the ability to find like remnant, you know, streaming opportunities, which – brings the cost down significantly for marketers.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And yeah, it's kind of an ever-evolving kind of situation. But TV, linear TV, which is like your traditional TV, yeah, unless you're probably advertising for during the Super Bowl, probably not your best place to be putting your dollars. I mean, social is still forever. Like it's going to be the landscape, but now it's kind of more of like, how do you diversify your spend in that landscape? Right.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Like where are you putting those dollars? Does it work best in TikTok? Does it work best in meta? YouTube is huge. You know, what are your goals and objectives and like who are you trying to reach? Right.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
This is – I wish I had had some time to think about this. I don't really know because I'm sure if I knew off the top of my head, I'd be trying to figure out how we could innovate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I mean, I think that the beverage space is always going to be an interesting one to play in. It's the hardest though. Refrigeration. It is the hardest, but well, yes.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
But if you can create shelf-stable products –
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Oh yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I mean, it's, I mean, that's definitely a part of it, but I also think it's kind of right place, right time in a lot of, in a lot of ways. Like ritual was like the first of its kind in that space. And I can say the same thing for Vital. We were like the first, we were doing that for
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
But it just, you know, Vital had something super special that a lot of these other brands didn't have, which was this idea that collagen was meant for everyone. And there were so many different benefits that collagen had as a supplement. And a lot of people were really narrow in, you know, how they were positioning products. And
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
first time on social media like we were literally there at the birth of traditional influencers as we know them on Instagram like now it's crazy because I'm like you know like in a time machine backwards talking to influencers about rates and I'm like how the hell did this get so expensive like what is going on and you know before then like
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I was, I don't even think half the people that we worked with charged us a dollar. We were just giving them free products. So it's just, you know.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yes.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Totally. And it's usually like the content they're engaging with the most or like the type of content that they're engaging with the most. I mean-
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
No. That's horrible.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
But also too, because like, if you're looking at this person with 19 million followers and the content is like, it's like pushing an ad, that's, you're not going to get, like authenticity is so important.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And we were out there really trying to encourage use across a very wide demographic. So yeah, just different strategies.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Right.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
You have, you know, I have friends, influencers that have frankly become friends over the years. Yeah. That are like, they have the most engaged communities because people are like,
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
they're just real they just do everything like they would in normal life it doesn't feel like they're pushing like a specific you know idealistic lifestyle it is really them and like for instance i was with katie strino over the weekend she is like who katie strino okay she's the founder of megababe she's a big deal but she is like yeah you should follow her she's just also hilarious and crazy
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
like crazy in like the best possible way. But she literally tells it like it is. Every picture that she posts is just, there's no question that that picture that she posted is her 100% of the time. And I love that.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Because I feel like I'm actually connecting with you. I'm not connecting with a version of you that you want me to connect with. It's the authenticity. Yeah. And people just do not pay enough attention to that. And frankly, especially marketers.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
It's like a whole- Because it's an unnatural thing that you're-
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
It's a very unnatural thing.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I mean, if anybody takes anything away that's a marker from this, that is that investing in more of these niche communities through the lens of micro influencers is going to far, far in a way, exceed any ROI that they would get from some massive influencer.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And do they even talk about the things that you're pitching them? I mean, for instance, I'm like, if they're literally only posting their outfits every day and it's all about fashion, I'm not paying you to talk about a supplement. You're never going to be able to engage with your audience. First of all, your audience probably doesn't even want that type of content from you.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
That's not why they're following you. And secondly, they're going to be like, this is super random and clearly an ad. This is clearly them just getting paid.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
We had been – he had been – the brand had existed for about three years, roughly. So I think when I started, you know, we were maybe just getting to, like, cresting, like, 10 million in sales. Still very small. And so, yeah, I mean, it was – he started building a team around like where he really saw the brand going. It's just so funny.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Thank you.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Can we do it with you?
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Well-
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Well, I have not had one today.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I have had one. Yeah, I'm familiar with the company. Yeah, it's very good. I like them.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I was worried that I was going to spill it and get green all over my hands.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I will be focused on all of the work that I have to do now.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I am on Instagram. I've kept it private.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Go to bio.me on Instagram. There's a lot of good fiber tips and recipes and fun things there for you.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Do it.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
We've been working on some internal documents and I pulled up this old Vital Proteins picture of Kurt whiteboarding in a WeWork when I first started. And it was like, you know, we were really focused on these different verticals that we wanted to really, you know, penetrate. And it was like fitness and beauty and nutrition.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And we had people at specific, like the helms of each of those categories and like how it was all interconnected and it's just so crazy to look back at, you know, how we were thinking about attacking the market then versus how we ended up attacking the market, which is so, yeah, yeah. Isn't that always the way it is?
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Like, I think, you know, organizationally we, you know, the structures are constantly evolving and shifting and, you know, you're kind of figuring out like what is really working in our strategy. And one of the biggest things that I was having to,
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
so excited to be a part of and like on, you know, the forefront of was building this massive influencer program that ended up becoming, you know, the secret sauce of the brand and the moat, as we called it, to a lot of the success that we built there because we were building community online and really, you
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
expert voices and a variety of different niches and reaching so many more consumers than we otherwise had through other traditional marketing tactics.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
That's their whole strategy. But they're also just a DTC brand, an online brand. They're not Well, actually, no, I think they are expanding into retail now.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Margins are better. You don't have to deal with all of the hoopla that comes with.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I mean, I think truly it's, you know, the margins that you have.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
If you're strictly selling through your website and you have your own fulfillment center, you're, you know, vertically integrated, let's say, your margins are going to remain extremely healthy, which then gives you more marketing dollars to invest in, you know, telling the world about your brand, advertising performance, advertising influencers, what have you.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
The minute you start, but that's also can be a downside, you know, if you don't have distribution points and major retailers where people can easily access your product, you're relying on people being willing to go to your website and sign up for an AG1's case of subscription and maintain that subscription. And that's their only kind of real touch point with the brand.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Obviously being in retailers gives people other opportunities to have a touch point with the brand in the physical world. So there's like good and bad to it. The upside is the marketing dollars. You have so much more that you can reinvest in the brand.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah. It's a good story, though.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah, in the double digits of millions. But it was also – you know, the contract was structured in such a way that it was, you know, tied to performance goals and KPIs and things. It was a really smart deal, which clearly – you know, came back in spades for us. Yeah, clearly.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
But the story and the reason, you know, that's the thing is I've talked before about this with a lot of people, like I don't necessarily encourage celebrity partnerships personally as a marketer, predominantly because like they tend to be really inauthentic and they just, you know, they're just going to dry up your marketing budget and probably not produce the results that you're looking for.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
The reason it worked so well for Vital though was, and this is the story, the lore of it all. So the day before I started my first day at Vital, I was doing some online research and just trying to figure out, okay, where have they been placed in press? Because I started as a PR manager there, which is also hilarious to think about now because I was head of global marketing as I left.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
So a lot of upward transitions there.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah, yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
It's a lot. Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
There was a lot of interwoven kind of strategic things happening on the marketing front that afforded me the opportunity to kind of like, okay, I'm going to take on this additional responsibility. Okay, I'm going to take on this additional responsibility and kind of helped build my path there. certainly not what typically happens.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I'll forever be grateful for those opportunities and, you know, Curt entrusting me with that and having great leadership supporting me along the way. But that aside... No, I want to hear the story, but first tell me the Jennifer Anness story.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah. So I found a Well and Good article when Well and Good was still, you know, really up and thriving. I don't know what happened, but... where she was talking with her trainer about, you know, what her typical post-workout smoothie is. And there was a link to collagen peptides in there. And I was like, that's really random.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Also, haha, I'm going to start at this company that sells collagen peptides like that. I've just never heard of this before. I click the link and it goes directly to the Amazon storefront, Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. And I'm thinking, oh my God, are you kidding me? Like Jennifer Aniston, this is 2016 also too, Still a small company, you know, not ready to take on a celebrity endorsement.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
But I was like, this is huge. This is huge. So start my first day, you know, sound the alarm. We did some stuff with it on social. But the craziest part was, you know, we ended up getting in touch with our manager who confirmed, yeah, she's a user of Vital Proteins Collagen. And I was like, that is crazy. crazy.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And so through the years, you know, sporadically, you know, we had tried to work out a deal then, didn't come to fruition, wouldn't have been the right time. We wouldn't have really been able to probably support, you know, what would have come out of that. But I came back full circle before I left and moved on from Vital, which was crazy. But the authenticity of that relationship.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Well, they, I mean, it was always something like we always knew in the back of our mind,
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Well, listen, she doesn't do a lot of brand deals. And I think that was one of the bigger attractive things about her. At the time, she also didn't even have any social media. So when we were, which is funny. I remember, right? Because we were, you know, we built this entire brand predominantly on social media.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
So we're like, how are we going to work with a celebrity who doesn't even have an Instagram page? We did get to basically launch her Instagram with Vital Proteins as like the deal. Yeah. I think she started posting maybe like a week prior to the announcement of our partnership, which is crazy. So it was almost like, you know, so many synchronicities, so many things happening in tandem.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
It was like beautifully aligned.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
So she did a commercial for us. We were dipping into OTT and linear TV advertising. She did end up doing a line of collagen bars with us, social media posting, event appearances. It was a lot of press. So it worked. I mean, the relationship was really organic. And it just – the fact that she was a user and had been a user for so long, it just – It seemed that way, I think, to the public.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
And, you know, like I said, she didn't have a lot of endorsements. She didn't do a lot of endorsements. When we talked to her manager about it, it was like she was excited about this because she's like, this is a product I actually genuinely use. Right. I'm not just, you know, doing this deal to do this deal.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
She had like that eye drop too. Yeah. Oh, I don't even remember that. Yeah, I love, I think.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Because it was a huge part of our, a big like Amazon DSP play, like a huge advertising play on Amazon, the different streaming ads that we did. Yeah, it was a big deal. I mean, it was kind of funny because the actual campaign itself was launched probably a couple of weeks after I formally left Vital Proteins.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
It was cool to see it live, but then I was like, my dad would be texting me like, I can't escape this day and Jennifer Aniston would be everywhere I look.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
That's great. Right. You're going to use it.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Yeah.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Multi-year. Yeah. Yeah. And so- I think she was five years-
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
I know there was an equity component. There typically is in big brand deals like that.
Habits and Hustle
Episode 425: Shannon Race: Secrets to Standing Out in Saturated Markets + Branding and Marketing Insights
Not while I was there. That was like the one that we, I mean, you know, we looked at other celebrities and you're also trying to move with the market, right? And you're like, okay. We know she's a great user of the brand. She loves the brand. But is there someone else that might appeal to a demographic of consumer that we're trying to reach?