Sen. Mike Lee
Appearances
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Doing great. It's good to be with you as always.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Oh, heck yeah. And look, it's been a few years since I've made that request, but we've got a new sheriff in town. Our new energy secretary, our new president are open to this. In the past, they've told me to pound sand. It wasn't just today isn't a good day. They told me I could not go. Not then, not ever. And that's BS.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
And, you know, perhaps I do need to bring along an assistant or a mouse, as you put it, named Glenn.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
So, I mean, and most of the video footage that I saw from that visit in the 1970s, which is the most recent one I've seen. It looked to me like mostly a lot of fanfare about the door. I mean, there's this giant door that's like 10 feet thick and about 10 guys it took to operate all the wheels to open it.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
But, you know, there wasn't a lot of time spent on the gold, very little time spent actually inspecting it, testing it, making sure it was there, that it was what it purported to be. That's one of the many reasons why the American people, as our government has gotten bigger, as it's gotten more expensive, as it's gotten more intrusive, as it's gotten more, frankly, dishonest.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
People don't trust it, and they want verification.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
You're exactly right. Look, there are two rules in life that everyone needs to know. Number one, a good way to end any parties. or at least the fun at any party, is to use the word rehypothecation. Number two, a good way to end the trust in a government is to inject the word rehypothecation into their gold reserves.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
That's going to end a lot of the trust that people might have in the financial stability of that country and its monetary systems. And so I think that's a very good question that we need to ask when we visit Fort Knox together.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Yeah, that seems a little bit anemic for what is needed here. Now, if they start, one could say, I suppose, that it is a good start. But remember, this is not the budget that the Senate still would have to act on it. And I personally prefer a much more aggressive approach and would much rather see a more aggressive approach like that.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
It's been discussed extensively by my friend and colleague from Wisconsin, Ron Johnson. Senator Ron Johnson has pointed out That if we just went back to pre-COVID spending levels and then made upward adjustments for inflation and population increase since COVID with respect to Social Security and Medicare, that we could get very, very close to balance.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
We could be at balance within just a few years, like two, three years. So why not take a more aggressive approach like that? Why not use the budget as an opportunity to set that plan, set that predicate to just say, we're not doing this anymore because we can't afford it. And it's going to shut our country and our autonomy down if we keep messing with this.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Well, okay. So there are a lot of reasons. A lot of people are eager to point out, look, um, as Republicans have a top, they've got only, uh,
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
know depending on the day the phase of the moon uh the day of the week they've only got that one two or three seat majority cushion and there are a lot of variances of opinion but this is exactly the kind of moment when we need leadership we need bold people to just stand up and say no we're not doing this we're going to be more aggressive about it there's still opportunity to do that this is not the end of the process we're still very near the beginning of the process and i personally hope that the
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Ron Johnson approach will gain more appeal and more of that will get injected into whatever ends up getting passed.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Yes, yes, it would. The REINS Act bottom line is that it requires what the Constitution already mandates in Article one, sections one and seven. We read that you cannot make a federal law without Congress, and that to pass a federal law, that requires a couple of things. First, bicameral passage, meaning passage of the same bill in the House and in the Senate.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Secondly, you have to present that to the president, who can then sign it, veto it, or acquiesce to it. Now, that should be simple, right? Because Article I, Sections 1 and 7 make that clear. And yet, for the last 85 years or so, Congress has been in this death spiral of delegating its lawmaking powers.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
In short, we will say things like, well, we shall have good law in Area X, and we hereby delegate to Agency Y the power to make good law in that area. That's nonsense. That makes the work easier for members of Congress, and it insulates members of Congress from political accountability in all the wrong ways.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
100%, because these people who make most of your laws measured by weight, volume, regulatory compliance costs, you name it, are now made by men and women, not of our own choosing. This is a real problem. Remember what Madison said in Federalist 62? Of course I do.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
He said, in effect, he said, it'll be of little avail to the American people that their laws may be written by men of their own choosing. If those laws be so voluminous, complex, and ever-changing, they can't know from one day to the next what the law says and what it requires. We don't live in that dystopian nightmare. That's what I remember.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
100,000 pages a year is what these bureaucratic pinheads put out every year. And not only are they so ever-changing, you can't know what the law says from one day to the next. They're not even written by men and women of our own choosing. This is tyranny of the sort that would have made King George III blush with envy. These guys are tyrants. And we've got to take it back. Okay.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
It is Congress's fault. Congress must fix that. Congress may fix it and must fix it by passing the range act.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Uh, yeah. Okay. So the affirmative defense for individuals, if you are sued, remember these laws put out by the bureaucratic print heads, if you violate them, they can put you in prison. They can fine you millions of dollars. They can shut down your business.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
The new provision of the RAINS Act that I inserted last year would allow an individual who had one of these enforced against him or her to raise as an affirmative defense. Hey, I wasn't on notice. You have to be adequately placed on notice. It's one of the hallmark characteristics of due process. You're placed adequately on notice as to what your obligation is.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
And the way you need to be placed on notice is that something is passed by both houses of Congress and then given to the president for signature. And if you can point out that the affirmative legal obligations in that regulation were not evident on the face of any statute passed by Congress, then you could use that as a defense and you can be let off the hook for that. This is as it should be.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
But currently you can go to prison or have your business shut down if you don't comply with whatever the bureaucratic. So you have to do right.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
No, that's exactly right. I tell some stories that came out of a book about 10 years ago called Our Lost Constitution. It tells some stories about, among other things, a father and son construction duo who were building houses in Florida's Escambia Bay. They ran afoul of one of these regulations. They were not on notice of it. They both ended up serving prison time just for clearing some land.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
They hadn't even built anything on it yet. They started to clear some land to get ready to dig a foundation. Uh, for some homes, they had no reason to believe they were violating any regulation, but unbeknownst to them, some bureaucratic pinhead had designated that a wetland area, even though it didn't have any visible wetland characteristics. And they went to prison for it.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
This is exactly the kind of thing the REINS Act would protect you from.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Yeah.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Okay. So the Liberty act part of it added by, uh, the, uh, representative Kat Kamek, the house sponsor of the legislation is a part that would extend this also to agency guidance documents, sometimes agencies. might be expected in the event the REINS Act passed to try to get around the provisions of the REINS Act by saying, well, this was just a guidance document.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
This wasn't actually a regulation. So she would extend it to that as well. And I think that is a good addition.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Yes.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
so so deregulation across the board again this this refers to the overall trust of the reigns act which is to say that our laws should be written by men and women of our own choosing people who are elected you cannot serve in the united states senate or in the united states house of representatives without standing for election at regular intervals every two years in the case of representatives every six years in the case of senators
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
So this puts that back in their hands. And then there's another provision that is related to this that is part of the new range that that that we added last year, which says that if you see something that comes up in a regulation, you can bring an affirmative case. You could bring a private right of action in court to enjoin.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
the enforcement of a particular regulatory provision against you, again, based on the theory that it hasn't been enacted by Congress. This ought to be common sense. It is common sense. It's already part of the Constitution.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
It's just a part of the Constitution that for reasons I cannot entirely fathom, the Supreme Court and consequently the lower federal courts have been utterly unwilling to enforce. In fact, Glenn, they even have a doctrine about this, a doctrine that recognizes it's a problem. It's called the non-delegation doctrine. The problem is it's toothless.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
The problem is that for nearly a century, they have, while acknowledging that the lawmaking task within the federal government can't be delegated outside of Congress, they have refused to enforce it because as long as there's some intelligible principle that you can glean from the statute, that's enough. This is absurd. It's unacceptable.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
And we ought not have to wait for the Supreme Court to pull its head out of the sand here. uh, in order to fix this problem, uh, from.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Look, it has to happen. Um, it's not easy to get it done. Uh, it's the rains act itself is, uh, difficult to impossible to pass as part of, uh, what we call budget reconciliation, which is the one exception, uh, to the 60 vote cloture rule in the Senate. So what that means is we, in order to get the full range egg, we're basically going to have to do this with 60 votes.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
Now, Republicans in both houses uniformly support it. Handful of Democrats are sympathetic to it. And a handful of Democrats, at least on the house side have voted for it. We've never had a straight up or down vote on the range act in the Senate. So we're not sure, but the way we get it done with 60, I believe is we've got to attach the range act.
The Glenn Beck Program
It's Time We Treat the Cartels the Way They Treat Us | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25
to something else that everybody wants, or at least is really important to the Democrats. Now, they're constantly talking about how much we absolutely positively have to raise the debt ceiling. There's never any question in their mind.