Sean Carroll

They're showing us the topography of the bottom of the ocean. And this is not what you would see if you just took a satellite image.

They're showing us the topography of the bottom of the ocean. And this is not what you would see if you just took a satellite image.

Then it's hard to see, you know, the satellites are not really showing us an image of the seafloor.

Then it's hard to see, you know, the satellites are not really showing us an image of the seafloor.

Well, I know when it comes to exploring outer space, most of the heavy lifting is actually done by robots and autonomous vehicles, but there's also some romance and something personally important to having human beings up there. I presume it's a similar story with the oceans. I mean, do you think we should have more emphasis on human beings or less emphasis on human beings?

Well, I know when it comes to exploring outer space, most of the heavy lifting is actually done by robots and autonomous vehicles, but there's also some romance and something personally important to having human beings up there. I presume it's a similar story with the oceans. I mean, do you think we should have more emphasis on human beings or less emphasis on human beings?

All right. Well, having given the human beings their due, we can now do the fun part, which is talk about the physics of what is going on here. You provocatively named your book The Blue Machine. And this is, again, very compatible with the idea that things are changing over time, that it's not just a static thing. What are the drivers of this change?

All right. Well, having given the human beings their due, we can now do the fun part, which is talk about the physics of what is going on here. You provocatively named your book The Blue Machine. And this is, again, very compatible with the idea that things are changing over time, that it's not just a static thing. What are the drivers of this change?

I presume that sunlight is one of them, wind is one of them. Is this something that we can sensibly make a list of? Yeah.

I presume that sunlight is one of them, wind is one of them. Is this something that we can sensibly make a list of? Yeah.

Well, it's a great segue into the fact that we haven't really talked enough about the biology that is going on down there in the oceans. I presume there is a lot of it. I don't have any good handle on how much we know about the biomass, how it's distributed, the various networks that keep it alive.

Well, it's a great segue into the fact that we haven't really talked enough about the biology that is going on down there in the oceans. I presume there is a lot of it. I don't have any good handle on how much we know about the biomass, how it's distributed, the various networks that keep it alive.

I see. Okay.

I see. Okay.

That's what I was just going to follow up on. I mean, here on land, we certainly have deserts and rainforests, right? We have places where life absolutely flourishes and places where it struggles. Is there life everywhere in the ocean? Or are there some places where it's happier?

That's what I was just going to follow up on. I mean, here on land, we certainly have deserts and rainforests, right? We have places where life absolutely flourishes and places where it struggles. Is there life everywhere in the ocean? Or are there some places where it's happier?

There is a feeling in reading your book that a lot of it, especially the early parts of your book, are less about what the oceans are like and what they used to be like before we human beings came in and started messing with them. How much have we messed with the oceans? What is the human impact there? I kind of know what you're going to say, but you know a bit more specifically than I do.

There is a feeling in reading your book that a lot of it, especially the early parts of your book, are less about what the oceans are like and what they used to be like before we human beings came in and started messing with them. How much have we messed with the oceans? What is the human impact there? I kind of know what you're going to say, but you know a bit more specifically than I do.

I mean, are we taking enough action? Are we headed in the right direction, do you think?

I mean, are we taking enough action? Are we headed in the right direction, do you think?