Sean Carroll

And of course, a system that means a lot to us human beings in our lives now and in the immediate future. So understanding it a little bit better, understanding the challenges that we human beings have put on our oceans is an important task. So let's go. Music Ellen Chersky, welcome to the Mindscape Podcast.

And of course, a system that means a lot to us human beings in our lives now and in the immediate future. So understanding it a little bit better, understanding the challenges that we human beings have put on our oceans is an important task. So let's go. Music Ellen Chersky, welcome to the Mindscape Podcast.

So I thought I would begin inspired by a little mention in your book. You know, there's this saying that goes around that we know more about the moon than we know about the deep sea ocean or the bottom of the ocean. So how do you feel about that saying?

So I thought I would begin inspired by a little mention in your book. You know, there's this saying that goes around that we know more about the moon than we know about the deep sea ocean or the bottom of the ocean. So how do you feel about that saying?

Well, it's also a good reminder in astronomy terms, what we would say is the time domain is very important here. It's not, there is no snapshot you could possibly get of the deep sea that you would say, okay, that's it, we're doing pretty well.

Well, it's also a good reminder in astronomy terms, what we would say is the time domain is very important here. It's not, there is no snapshot you could possibly get of the deep sea that you would say, okay, that's it, we're doing pretty well.

And the one technical question I have to ask here, does the worm ever become topologically non-trivial? Like do two little parts of the worm ever rejoin or is it always just going to be a tree?

And the one technical question I have to ask here, does the worm ever become topologically non-trivial? Like do two little parts of the worm ever rejoin or is it always just going to be a tree?

It does make you think that the people who make science fiction TV shows and movies lack imagination a little bit. Like they should go down into the ocean and get inspired for some real fun alien biology.

It does make you think that the people who make science fiction TV shows and movies lack imagination a little bit. Like they should go down into the ocean and get inspired for some real fun alien biology.

So let's back up a little bit. You've been described as an accidental oceanographer. You started in physics and then somehow went through bubbles before ending up in the ocean. How did that journey happen?

So let's back up a little bit. You've been described as an accidental oceanographer. You started in physics and then somehow went through bubbles before ending up in the ocean. How did that journey happen?

I do think that this is a big conceptual point about how science is done that maybe is not as appreciated as it could be. The physics paradigm is to simplify everything as much as possible until we can get down to some solvable model and then hopefully put the complications back in later.

I do think that this is a big conceptual point about how science is done that maybe is not as appreciated as it could be. The physics paradigm is to simplify everything as much as possible until we can get down to some solvable model and then hopefully put the complications back in later.

But there are whole sets of systems, certainly in the biological world, but as you're pointing out, even in the sort of It's a very physical world there in the ocean, and it's nevertheless super-duper complicated and nonlinear and interconnected in a way that a ball rolling down a plane or two electrons smashing together at a particle accelerator really are not.

But there are whole sets of systems, certainly in the biological world, but as you're pointing out, even in the sort of It's a very physical world there in the ocean, and it's nevertheless super-duper complicated and nonlinear and interconnected in a way that a ball rolling down a plane or two electrons smashing together at a particle accelerator really are not.

We will get there. But let's get into this physical complexity of the ocean. Let's get into some of the details here. I mean, I guess the first thing to confront is the fact that it's three-dimensional, right? It's not just the surface. And there are layers in the ocean. How well...

We will get there. But let's get into this physical complexity of the ocean. Let's get into some of the details here. I mean, I guess the first thing to confront is the fact that it's three-dimensional, right? It's not just the surface. And there are layers in the ocean. How well...

This sounds like me being a physicist trying to oversimplify things, but how far can we go talking about the ocean being divided into different layers?

This sounds like me being a physicist trying to oversimplify things, but how far can we go talking about the ocean being divided into different layers?