Scott Weinberger
Appearances
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
Still, just the fact that he was seen with the victim on the day she was killed made him someone that investigators needed to locate and fast.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But rule of thumb to keep in mind, while you may be able to outrun the police, you can never outrun the radio.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
Police brought the teenager into an interview room and started asking questions, and immediately they were struck by his cooperative demeanor.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But as everyone listening already knows, danger often lurks just under the surface of most idyllic towns. And in May of 2022, that community was shaken to its core when that danger came for one of its own, a 13-year-old girl named Milana Lee.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
So Gore explained that he had spent the afternoon of Sunday, May 8th with a group of friends, but they eventually went their separate ways. It was then that he met up with Milana at the yogurt shop.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
Still, the admission that he was with Milana on the day she was killed is pretty significant. He went on to admit that after sharing a frozen yogurt, he and Milana decided to visit a friend's house. So they made their way to the bus stop, sipping alcoholic seltzers as they walked.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
According to Gore, the two get off the bus and hurry across the street to another stop, waited to catch a bus headed in the opposite direction.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
On his phone, investigators discovered text messages from that evening that supported his claim that he left Milana at the bus stop, which of course made them wonder, could he be telling the truth? And if so, did they have the wrong guy?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
Then of course you have his juvenile record, his admission he was intoxicated. It's very hard not to see this circumstantial evidence and magnify what may just be coincidence into a conviction that this was the killer. But the best way to guard against this tunnel vision is to go out and gather more evidence.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
During questioning by police, 16-year-old Daniel Gore had a reasonable explanation for everything. What he and Milana were doing together the day she died, why his texts were on her phone, and most importantly, when was the last time he saw her alive?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But they were convinced it was only a matter of time before they could tie him to the crime. And so while they didn't have enough to charge him for the murder, they could arrest him for a probation violation, allowing them to keep him in custody while they gathered more evidence.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
Like many prosecutors, Senior Deputy Attorney John Gerard had always felt a strong sense of duty, which is why before settling in Oregon, he served in the Army as a judge advocate and prosecutor.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
The teenagers then could be seen exiting the bus and walking across the street to catch another one headed in the opposite direction. This is the moment that Daniel claimed they parted ways.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
It was yet more digital evidence contradicting his story that he and Milana had parted ways. But that wasn't the only lie Daniel was caught telling. Because later that night, his phone was on the move again.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
She also said that hours after she spotted Daniel and Milana together, he had shown up at her apartment unannounced.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
At this point, investigators believed that this was the linchpin and they were more confident they had enough circumstantial evidence to charge him with Milana's murder.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
A week after the discovery of Milana's body in a Beaverton park, Gore was charged with first degree murder, first degree sexual assault, and other related charges. So honestly, at this moment in the case, investigators have developed a really solid timeline, not only with great digital evidence. Surveillance cameras of their travel throughout the day is a great example of that.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But the fact is, he was cooperating and he was talking. And while his version of events attempted to dispute the video evidence, they really are able to narrow down a lot of that circumstantial evidence, putting him with her that day.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
And having him be so open in that conversation, Anastasia, really put him in a corner.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
And all the traits that John would deploy in his mission to seek justice for the most innocent of victims.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
With that hurdle cleared, prosecutors could then focus on the criminal trial itself. Armed with digital records, DNA evidence, and witness testimony to establish Gore's guilt, John was confident, but as always, braced for any surprises from the defense.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
In other words, the defense claimed that the presence of unidentified male DNA on both Milana's clothes and her fingernails suggested that perhaps police had failed to fully investigate any alternative suspects.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
You know, this is the point, honestly, again, the case that I think is the moment that the defense attorney is hoping that reasonable doubt just walked into the courtroom and took a seat in the jury box. I mean, in simple terms, proof beyond a reasonable doubt doesn't mean being 100% certain someone is guilty, as you know.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
It means that after looking at the evidence carefully, jurors feel comfortable that the person committed the crime. So if there's any real sensible doubt that makes them unsure, they must find the person not guilty. Introducing a potential other suspect is the oldest form of a defense's case. And I think here is where you could probably lay into that, having seen that yourself.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But while this alternate suspect theory was concerning for the prosecution, John had a counter.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
John believed the answer could be found in an examination of his background, which revealed a disturbing obsession with murder and sexual violence against women.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
The performer he was describing was a self-described horrorcore rapper with songs like I Want to Eat Your Face, How to Hide a Body, and I Feel Like Dexter, referring to the fictional television serial killer.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
Milana was bright, she was kind, and at 13, already carrying a lot of responsibility at home, often watching her five-year-old sister while her mother worked long hours.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
On the stand, witnesses described Gore as a manipulative individual who had a fascination with violent crime, idolized serial killers, and even kept a journal filled with dark fantasies and violent imagery.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
It may have also indicated a deep disassociation or indifference to her murder, which was further demonstrated by Gore's reaction when he was first told by police that Milana was dead.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
John then turned his attention to Daniel's friend from the yogurt store. And according to her, on the night Milana was murdered, he came to her home and was visibly distraught. He then retreated to the bathroom and made a private phone call to his ex.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But while her youngest was there in bed, 13-year-old Milana was nowhere to be found.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
It is every parent's worst fear, suddenly not knowing where your child is. With your mind racing with the worst case scenarios, minutes can feel like hours and hours like days.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
It's a reasonable assessment, especially in a low-crime area like Beaverton. But Ashley insisted that her daughter had never shown any sign of wanting to run away and had never been in trouble and was not the kind of kid to just be out causing mischief. She had a mother's gut feeling that something was wrong.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But no one had seen or heard from her in more than 24 hours. And by the next day, the community was out in force helping to look for the missing teen.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
Officers were dispatched to meet them at the scene. Body cam audio caught the moments officers arrived at the park.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
At the bottom of a hill was a creek, and at the water's edge was where officers saw something that looked very out of place. A blue blanket submerged in the water that appeared to be weighted down with stones.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
It was clear that Milana had been savagely beaten and the way her body was deliberately concealed indicated that this was more than just a suspicious death. It was likely a deliberate and vicious attack.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
The Emmy would later confirm that before she was killed, Milana had indeed been the victim of a sexual assault.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
The fact is that a child's most treasured instinct, their curiosity, can also prove to be the most dangerous. Kids want to explore, meet new people, and obviously experience new things.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
all of which may hold biological evidence that could help identify Milana's killer, as could some of the items recovered from what looked like a nearby campsite.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
The big question, of course, was how Milana ended up here in the woods to begin with. The crime scene suggested that she was certainly alive before entering the park and was likely killed at the scene. So was she brought here against her will or did she come with someone voluntarily?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
And the quickest way to do that was to request location data from her cell phone to try to retrace her steps.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
According to the teenager, Milana had stopped into the shop on the day she disappeared, and she wasn't alone.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
The murder of 13-year-old Milana Lee hit the Beaverton community hard, especially among the classmates and their families of her middle school.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But with the enormous outpouring of grief came a mountain of unanswered questions.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
And recognizing that line is not always easy, especially for teenagers who are often the ones most drawn to new people and new experiences, but do not always have the tools to protect themselves if those same people and experiences become threats to their safety.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
The teenage employee didn't previously know 13-year-old Milana, but she did recognize the boy she was with. He was a 16-year-old former classmate of hers named Daniel Gore.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
According to the young employee at the yogurt shop, Milana did not appear to be scared or in any kind of distress. In fact, they appeared to be friends despite their obvious age difference.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But a search of social media revealed that Milana and Gore had, in fact, been in contact in the weeks leading up to her murder and had been seen together on multiple occasions. So, in short, it appeared they were friends.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsuspecting (Milana Li)
But even more shocking was learning that Gore wasn't just a new friend that Milan had been keeping a secret from her mom. According to his juvenile records, he had a troubled past and a rap sheet that included a slew of criminal offenses like theft, property damage, and even arson.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
A family waiting for justice. We originally aired Silent Night, the story of Anthony Anton Breaux, at the end of December 2022. Anton was just 19 years old when he was killed in April of 2007.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And then there's this stark realization. It wasn't just Deborah who was at a loss for answers. Investigators were in the very same place.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Until this point, we know Anton was 19, heading to the jobs corp, and he had an older brother. But to potentially unravel more clues about his death, let's take a look into Anton's life.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
For pretty much all of Antone's entire life, he was never known to get into any sort of trouble, except for one time in school.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
But there was one thing that Deborah was always curious about. Antone had a particular affinity for toothbrushes.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
I call it, he was completely buttoned up, right? Someone who was sharp, someone who knew what it took to make a statement. And then of course, excited about his hobby. I mean, Anton had, maybe let's just call it a passion, a passion for cars. That was his thing.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
In the beginning of a homicide investigation, the key is narrowing or eliminating possible motives. Was there a sign of robbery? No. Then you move on. Was he having some type of ongoing issue with a co-worker or a friend? Is it about love? Is it about money? Or could it just be a random crime, one of those wrong place at the wrong time type crimes?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Everything is on the table until it's not. Investigators would begin to look at Antone's plans the night of his murder.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Once you're through all the interviews and through your victimology, you have to start thinking about what other avenues can you go down investigatively to determine what happened on that night. And you have to look at the area. You have to look at, you know, is it a well-known drug area? Is it a well-known gang area? Could he been mistaken for a potential gang member?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And this is Anatomy of Murder.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
to find out what happened and caused his death i mean let me say this right here i understand why she may be thinking that and i can't speak for every person that's in a position to make those decisions as investigators but is it possible of course anything is possible
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Deborah wanted the detective to get to know Antone. And, you know, I think it's important to picture in your mind her next move.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And while most will be ringing in the new year with new resolutions, there are those families that still see the years pass with no resolution in a cold case homicide. And it's with them that my thoughts are with and with one particular family that we will be featuring today.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
I heart this. I respect this. Deborah was fighting for her son, wanting the investigators to get the clearest picture of really who Antone was.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And Deborah wanted to be in full lock step with those investigators.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
But here's the problem that Debra was facing. In a 2018 Washington Post article, it talks about the phenomenon called pockets of impunity and the reasons why some cold cases don't get solved. And it boils down to a lack of community cooperation.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
I have been involved in cases where we've distributed hundreds of flyers near or close to where a homicide had occurred. And there's a method on how you do it. You know, it's not just plastering the area to get coverage.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
It's when you make a personal connection to someone that may have seen something and you go to an intersection where the shooting occurred and you return to that intersection at the very same time of day, maybe even the same day of the week to hand those flyers out. And here's the reason why. People normally commute leave to go to work and go home the same time of day.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And usually they take the same route. So it's important that if they saw something and they didn't realize it was important, that the flyer can spark action and there is somebody, a member of law enforcement or anybody, family member, who's handing that out, and there's a personal connection, and they know it is a real issue.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And just one thing, one word, one sentence, really, could solve a cold case.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And the case would go cold for years until Deborah got news that would breathe new life into this investigation.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
We're posting the flyer on our blog and a photo of the apartment sign that was off of Bell Street where the incident occurred.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Boy number one was Richard and boy number two was Aaron, who was six years younger. And Deborah had her hands full.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
He worked in construction, but he tells us it was the events of September 11th that convinced him that he wanted to do more and find ways to best utilize his skills to help others.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Even though Jacob is working on this case years later, he actually was involved in the case on day one.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
So now that we know that a shot was fired, some of our listeners may be saying, why didn't anybody call? But, you know, I look at this as a busy intersection, construction noises, cars backfiring, fireworks. I mean, to me, there's so many reasons why in a commercial area like this, people just go on with the business of what they're doing and may not even think about calling. How about you?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
There is another tragic element in this case. And while it may not have been intentional, it's possible it could have made a difference. And here's what I mean. We do not know the timeline of when the exact shot was fired, but we do know when the 911 call came in to report a man who was unresponsive lying in the street. So was it five minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes prior to police responding?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Could that have made a difference in saving Antone's life? If the call had been made in the moments after he was shot, Anasiga, that could have made a difference.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
But here is a fact that investigators do know. They determined that the shooting did occur when Anton was just waiting to be picked up from that intersection. He was really doing nothing but simply hanging out and talking to friends.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Early on, some tips did come in, but they were kind of very general. Like someone heard that Antone was having a problem with this guy or someone was having a problem with Antone. But every road those tips led down came up empty.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
When it comes to gangs and communities, the word turf is always used, a city's dividing line where gangs claim that territory and defend it with deadly violence. In the city of Fremont, two rival gangs split the city.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
The Norteños, referring to Northern California, and their biggest rivals, the Sireños from Southern California, is a dividing line between them and the gang's membership consists primarily of Mexican-Americans.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
So is there any credence to the fact that Anton may have been shot in some gang-related incident? Or, you know, potentially was he mis-ID'd at the time of his murder? You know, he was wearing dark-colored jeans and a hooded sweatshirt, but nothing in the description displayed any type of gang colors that may have been misidentified.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
The other murder, which is an open investigation as well, happened just three months earlier and was only about four to five miles away from the location that Antone was murdered.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Aaron's full name is Aaron Anthony Breaux, but everyone called him Antone.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
You don't want to be involved because you fear for your own life. You fear that retaliation. And it's true. It is a real issue. And it's a very difficult wall for law enforcement to climb to get people to cooperate who have that fear.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
For decades, law enforcement has turned to reward funds.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And whenever Anastasia and I and our AOM team have the opportunity to highlight a case that can make a difference, it's a real interest to us. And we hope it's an interest to all of you because somebody knows something.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
I literally cracked up when he actually went as far as to say that, you know, people in prisons, I mean, maybe they have information. And of course, that's true.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
But if they have information, I'm sure Jacob and the Fremont Police Department would take that collect call.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
We're in the middle of the holidays. We are around families and friends, spending time with old connections and forging new ones. And during that time, you should talk about this case. Talk about Anton. Remembering him for the kid who would clean his shoes with toothbrushes and his love for cars. Let's see if those conversations sparks new leads and new information.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And if you have information, you can call the Fremont Police Department at 510-790-6900 or the Silent Witness Hotline at 510-494-4856.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
It was so important for us to hear from Debra because every word she had to say about Antone brings him back to life for us in many ways. And there was one story she said about her son that we just felt was appropriate to end with during this holiday time.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Anatomy of Murder is an Audiochuck original produced and created by Weinberger Media and Forseti Media. Ashley Flowers and Sumit David are executive producers.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
As we both know, a 19-year-old is going to be a 19-year-old teen. You know, wanting to be with friends, especially when he knows he's going to be away for an extended time. It seems very natural.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Over the next few weeks, Deborah did exactly that. But that piece of advice, now looking back, foreshadowed what she would face on April 29th, 2007.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
If you haven't listened to this case before, please listen now. If you've heard it once, please listen again. Antone's mom shared her son with us and looks to us, along with everyone out there, all of you, who can help in any way to give the family answers and to also get justice for her son.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
So this is a really active crime scene in one of the busiest intersections in the city of Fremont. Police are trying to maintain the crime scene, grabbing as many potential eyewitnesses as possible to get any fresh information. What did they see? What did they hear? And at this point, police only knew they had a shooting victim, but nothing on a potential shooter or shooters.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
There's a state of being that happens for some people either witnessing or learning of a traumatic event. It's known as tracts or trauma-related disassociation and altered states of consciousness. It is sometimes described as a mental escape when a physical escape is not possible or when a person is so emotionally overwhelmed that they cannot cope any longer.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
And sometimes disassociation is like switching off. Some survivors describe it as a way of saying, this isn't happening to me.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
We often talk about the investigative method of victimology, which is the process of getting as much information about your victim in order to develop potential theories. Where were they in their life when the murder occurred? Who are they associating with? And what issues can you identify that may have led to this event?
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Obviously, just like in this case, the family would be the best source of information. And that is exactly where investigators began first.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
As Deborah was getting ready to leave, a detective did approach her who said he did in fact have information for her. But it was more than she could handle.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
So from us to you, Happy New Year. We look forward to spending another year with you here at AOM, and we will return next week.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Anybody who's ever worked in this capacity, someone responsible to make notifications to family members, will say it is the absolute worst part of the job. Even later in my career, I remember responding as a street reporter to a crime scene when a family member showed up only to learn that a loved one had been killed.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Seeing that now as an outsider gave me an entirely new perspective of those notifications.
Anatomy of Murder
Unsolved: Silent Night (Aaron Anthony “Antone” Breaux)
Even the thought of having to make that choice is just so devastating, you know, but I absolutely respect the fact that she gave it that much thought and wanted to do what was right moving on.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Fisher for kids? A disturbing coincidence or a menacing clue from Bobby Joe's killer? Either way, the race was on to find this Darlene Fisher.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Which likely meant that it was simply a false name, which while frustrating, is also another clue that this potential client was a strong person of interest.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
And one of those tips came from a woman in North Carolina who was also a terrier breeder and a regular on a community message board called the Ratter Chatter.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
As news of Bobby Joe's murder hit the message board, this particular tipster from North Carolina recalled an exchange that was posted just a day before the murder between Bobby Joe and a user calling herself Darlene Fisher.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
And at this point, alarm bells start going off because there was another tip that had come in regarding a similar name.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Your baby sister has come. The coincidence was too chilling to ignore.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Randy was racing towards an address in Melvern, Kansas, a town about 175 miles from Zeb and Bobby Joe's home. In the meantime, the computer forensics team had already traced the IP address of the so-called Darlene Fisher.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
The house belonged to husband and wife Kevin and Lisa Montgomery, one or both of whom were now the primary persons of interest in Bobby Joe's homicide and the kidnapping of her infant daughter.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
At 1230 in the afternoon on December 17th, less than 24 hours after Bobby Joe's murder, Randy and his partner Don met the two FBI agents near a crossroads to strategize their approach to the house.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
On the morning of December 16th, 2004, Zeb Stinnett left for work early like he always did to drive the two hours to his factory job across the border in Kansas.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
And so an impromptu task force of local deputies and feds descended on the Montgomery home carefully.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
So remember the scene in Silence of the Lambs when Jodie Foster's character shows up at the house at the end and spots a death moth. And at that moment, she just knows she's at the house of the killer. The way Randy described this scene to me, it was kind of like that.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
According to Randy, the man appeared genuinely shocked to see police on his doorstep and didn't hesitate before inviting them inside.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Not only that, but the feds had seen the couple exit a car that matched the one seen at the crime scene and walk into the house with a baby. I mean, this is it.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
And now began the dance between veteran investigator and suspect. Randy's first goal was to keep these suspects calm in order to protect the safety of the child. He also needed to question the Montgomery's to confirm what the circumstantial evidence already suggested, that one or both of them were cold hearted killers.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
I think it's pretty obvious, Anastasia, that Rennie does not believe the story she's providing. And there would be no reason for them to challenge it right at that very moment.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Just a quick side note on the chess match, as you call that, Anasiga. You know, when I talk to current and former investigators about conducting an interview, I usually mention my take when being face-to-face with a person of interest who is willing to talk. I say every word they utter is a threat. Pull enough of them and the fabric of lies begin to unravel.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
In an interrogation, silence isn't golden. You know, letting them talk is the catalyst that turns information into the truth you're chasing. And for Randy, it was all about unraveling lie after lie.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
And that meant keeping his cool and his guard up.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Bobbie Jo and her mom were close. And in fact, that day, her mom had called her to confirm plans for Bobbie Jo to pick her up after work at 3.30 p.m.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
And that must have been music to Randy's ears because three friends meant three potential witnesses to verify or dispute her alibi.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
But he also got the feeling that Montgomery was not going to crack. She had her story, and she was going to stick to it.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
And soon afterwards, she would get her wish. An ambulance was called for the baby. And when a local deputy arrived at the scene, Randy enlisted his help to seal the deal.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
But after her mom finished her shift, there was no sign of Bobbie Jo. Her mom called up to the house, but there was no answer. She left a message on the machine that she would just walk the few blocks to her daughter's house.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
With Lisa Montgomery in the back seat, Randy and Don followed the deputy to a vacant, nondescript building in town. They walked her into a room and started their chat with Lisa Montgomery.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
And thus begins yet another dance, the back and forth in the interview room. First, she denies ever being in Skidmore at Bobby Joe's home. Then she denied using the alias Darlene Fisher.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Much of what she confessed was already pieced together by investigators, or at least heavily suspected by the evidence they'd meticulously gathered. But now they were hearing straight from the source.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Having made contact with Bobby Joe using a fake name through the message board and by text, Montgomery arrived at Stennett's house just after 1230 in the afternoon.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
After Bobby Joe lost consciousness, Montgomery used the knife she had brought with her to cut into the pregnant woman's abdomen.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
It only serves to prove that her actions, both the murder and the kidnapping of Bobby Joe's baby, were all carefully and methodically planned. Because not only had she carried with her the weapon used to kill Bobby Joe, she also had supplies she planned to use to care for the infant baby.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
As her mom entered the home, she was subjected to a horror that no person, especially a parent, should ever have to face.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Her actions upon her return to Kansas supported Randy's suspicion that her husband, Kevin, was indeed in the dark about his wife's evil plans.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
In the interview room, Montgomery claimed that the plan to murder Bobby Joe was hers and hers alone, and that she had told no one.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Even with all the steps she took to plan and commit this heinous murder, what she did after in her attempt to cover it up was completely incompetent, especially with leaving the murder weapon and the clothing found in her car. But let me say this. I'm sure Randy and the team were so relieved that they found the newborn and that the baby was in relatively good health.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
That was a huge win right there. Now, the evidence would have to prove who participated and who didn't participate in the murder and the abduction of Bobby Joe's baby. But one thing was clear, the scheming and the cold-bloodedness to commit this crime, that fact, Anastasia, was as clear as day.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
And as it turns out, Montgomery's full disturbing confession came right in time.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
This crime is so awful in so many ways. But most of all, it leaves me and probably you asking why. Why would she think she could just steal another woman's baby? And of course, why target Bobbie Jo?
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Somehow, between trying to staunch the wound and attempting CPR, Bobby Joe's mom frantically dials 911.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
As for why Montgomery had been faking her own pregnancy, the reasons get a little more convoluted.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
In a previous custody hearing in a bid for sympathy, Lisa Montgomery had told the judge that she had recently had a miscarriage. The only problem with that story was that she had undergone a tubal ligation more than 10 years before and her ex-husband was ready to call her out on a lie.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Lisa and Kevin Montgomery eventually gave consent to the FBI to search their home, vehicles, and the family computer. They recovered forged doctor's letters, a birth announcement, and even a disposable camera with pictures of Lisa at home with Bobby Joe's baby.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Montgomery's car contained equally damning evidence, including her blood-stained coat, a birthing kit, bloody gloves, and the murder weapon itself.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Lisa Montgomery was arrested and charged with kidnapping resulting in death, which became a federal offense as soon as she crossed state lines.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
On October 22, 2007, after five hours of deliberation, the jury found Lisa Montgomery guilty of all charges. Four days later, they recommended the death penalty, and the judge formally sentenced Montgomery to death row.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Following the trial, Bobby Joe's family expressed gratitude that Bobby Joe's daughter had been safely returned and despite losing her mom, was given the opportunity to grow up surrounded by a loving and supportive family.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
To put it simply, for investigators like Randy Strong, it is the reason they do the job. And that's the why.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
The local sheriff and two deputies arrived at the scene 11 minutes after the call, followed shortly after by EMS. Despite desperate life-saving measures, Bobbie Jo's injuries proved too severe and she died of her wounds.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Neither will I. It was while I was researching and preparing for my interview with Randy that I first discovered that he had the rare and deeply emotional opportunity to meet Bobby Joe's daughter 18 years after he rescued her from the arms of a psychopathic killer. That moment in the interview where he described their first encounter was profoundly moving for both of us.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
It is unimaginable to fathom the circumstances of her entry into this world, which did include a small knife wound by her eye, a chilling reminder of what she had endured as a newborn. Zeb Stinnett, her father, has done everything in his power to shield her from the spotlight. ensuring a life of privacy and protection.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Yet his decision to honor her wish to meet Randy speaks volumes about his compassion, understanding, and respect for her journey. Today, she has grown into a thriving, resilient young woman, a testament to survival, courage, and the enduring strength of the human spirit.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Bobby Joe's body was transported to the hospital in Maryville. Randy had been involved in several homicide investigations, but nothing could have prepared him for this.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
sterile bags had already been placed over her hands to preserve any forensic evidence they might contain.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
The medical examiner in Jackson County, Missouri, would find defensive wounds on her hands as well as what looked like dark hair belonging to an attacker still clutched in her fists, both indications of an incredible struggle before Bobbie Jo died from strangulation caused by an unknown ligature.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
You know, Anastasia, it's worth pausing here for a moment to talk about the gravity of the situation. The fact was that the newborn was in the hands of a killer. Would the person know how to care for a newborn who may perhaps have been injured in the process of being ripped from the mother? I mean, I can't think of a better example of using the phrase that time was of the essence.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
It was hard to fathom who could be capable of killing a pregnant woman and kidnapping her unborn child. But law enforcement in Missouri already had their theories, and it was only a matter of time before the evidence led them to the doorstep of a kidnapper and a killer.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
23-year-old Bobbie Jo Stinnett, who was eight months pregnant with her first child, was strangled to death in her home, her unborn daughter forcibly removed from her womb by an unknown assailant.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
As we've endeavored to do in the past, our aim in telling this story is to pay respect to the victim, her family, and the outstanding investigative work of local law enforcement, and not to focus solely on the horrifying details of the murder itself or the person responsible.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
But as we've said, time is always of the essence in the first few hours of a homicide. But in this case, there was even a greater sense of urgency. Not only were authorities searching for Bobby Joe's killer, they were searching for a missing infant whose young life was in imminent danger.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Now, as you can imagine, local law enforcement called in all of the help they could get, enlisting investigators from multiple agencies to help with the search. But they also ran into a unique and frustrating roadblock.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
An Amber Alert is an emergency response system designed to disseminate information about a missing or abducted child by any and all means possible, from electronic roadway signs to radio and TV broadcasts.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
But while the press scrambled for details about the murder and the kidnapping, investigators had a job to do, starting at the crime scene.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Located about 100 miles north of Kansas City, this small farming community in the heartland is not the bustling hub of opportunity that many young people seek when they're heading out on their own. But for 23-year-old Bobby Joe Stinnett, it was home. Here's former sheriff and retired detective Randy Strong, who was assigned to the major K-Squad in northwest Missouri back in 2004.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
Investigators found no signs of forced entry into the house, and the blood evidence made it clear that the attack started and concluded inside the small back bedroom of the Stinnett house, where Bobbie Jo also kept some kennels for her dogs.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
The next thing for investigators to do was to try to pinpoint the exact time of the murder. You know, it's our timeline. And according to Bobby Joe's mom, the last time she spoke to her daughter, her call was interrupted by a visit from someone that Bobby Joe claimed was there to see dogs.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
It was pretty good evidence that the person who had come in to look at the dogs and the person who killed Bobby Joe and abducted her child were one in the same. So the next step was to identify who that person was.
Anatomy of Murder
Eerily Calm (Bobbie Jo Stinnett)
The message from just the day before the murder was from a woman named Darlene Fisher from Atchison County, Kansas, who had indeed expressed interest in purchasing one of Bobby Joe's terrier puppies.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
So you are, in effect, destroying crucial evidence in hopes that it will yield a viable DNA sample. But if your evidence is limited, which it often is, that's a risky proposition because once it's used up, it's gone for good.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Vicki Lynn Belk was a child of the Civil Rights era. As a third grader in 1960, she had actually been among the very first group of African American students to integrate the school system in her hometown of Alexandria, Virginia.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Trying to match that bullet with other bullets recovered from decades of local crime scenes could potentially help locate the murder weapon and its owner. And years earlier, police thought they had done just that.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
And that patience paid off. In 2022, a new and very effective instrument was developed that aids in the extraction of DNA.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
The DNA left at the crime scene was a match to a man named Andre Taylor, who would have just been 18 at the time of Vicky's murder.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
And while the bullet that was recovered from Vicki's body had been lost over the years, it had been examined after the murder to help identify the kind of gun that was used.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
So honestly, I think two pretty big pieces of the puzzle are in place that the original investigation didn't have an opportunity to confirm. So you have a DNA match. Getting it hidden in CODIS is only half the journey because it's really finding the individual, getting, as you know, a confirmatory sample, which would be ordered by the courts, and then making that true match there and then.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
That name didn't ring any bells with Vicki's siblings. But just the prospect of finally catching her killer brought on a wave of relief and emotion.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
And as I just mentioned, getting that confirmatory DNA sample, whether through a voluntary swab or search warrant, is a necessary next step. But first up is finding Andre Taylor.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Sergeant John Elliott is a 28-year veteran of law enforcement who got to start patrolling the boardwalks of Ocean City, Maryland, before eventually joining the sheriff's office in Charles County, just southeast of D.C.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Charles County detectives tracked the 61-year-old Andre Taylor to where he'd been hiding in plain sight for years, a nursing home.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
John's first impression of Taylor was that of a diminished elderly man. He was missing a leg, and his face showed the wear and tear of a hard life lived mostly on the streets.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Now, his arrest would have to wait until the lab matched his DNA with their sample from Vicky's crime scene. But it was pretty clear that Taylor wasn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Taylor was transported back to the homicide branch of the Washington Metro PD, where John was prepared to conduct his interview.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
The Monday morning of August 27th, 1979 started like it does for many Washington area commuters, with Vicki and her boyfriend James leaving his house in Maryland and crossing the border into D.C. to make their way to their respective jobs downtown.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
But then again, he produced a photo of 28-year-old Vicki Lynn Belk, a single mother with a loving family and her whole life in front of her.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
The conclusion of investigators, that it was highly unlikely. Not only were they 10 years apart in age, but they were too different.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Taylor had admitted to sexually assaulting Vicky at gunpoint, but he stopped short of confessing to murder, instead pinning it on an unnamed friend who he claimed drove off with Vicky in James' stolen car.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
And I so appreciate John's approach to this interview. I mean, we do know that John was taking one step at a time to be able to lock him into the fact that the sex was not consensual. And, you know, it's pretty clear that she was sexually assaulted. There is a method questioning a suspect when they admit something. They think it's a rather big step that they're admitting to committing a crime.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
And you listen to that. And as the investigator, you take it in, but you move on. And sometimes for the defendant who just admitted to committing a heinous crime, the fact that you didn't stop them in their tracks and say, OK, this is done. Where's the handcuffs? And you continue the conversation makes them feel in a way like I just confessed to a felony crime.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
And maybe I'm thinking, wow, I got that off my chest and that's not really a big deal. And maybe I'd be willing to go a little bit further. Or, as it turns out in this case, maybe he feels I maybe already stepped over the line.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Following his arrest, John presented his case to a grand jury, which indicted Andre Taylor on charges of first-degree murder and first-degree sexual assault.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
So this is one of the biggest challenges for cold case prosecutions, finding the witness who can testify to the facts that they may have reported to police years before. Because it's testimony itself under oath that lends those facts credence and believability, and most importantly, brings the story to life for a jury.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
But as the clock hit 5 p.m., there was still no sign of Vicki.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Luckily, John had a few other names. Whether he could find them after so many years was another story.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
A week later, John got a phone call from Mary Hickson, but she had disappointing news. She had never worked at the Department of Agriculture and did not know Vicki Belk.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Taylor never testified in his own defense. And at the end of the nine-day trial, the jury adjourned to deliberate on his fate.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
During sentencing, prosecutors emphasized the decades of trauma endured by Vicki's family, particularly her son, who was just seven years old when she was killed.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
On August 23rd, 2024, the court sentenced Andre Taylor to life in prison without parole.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
In the years following Vicki's death, her family established the Vicki Belk Scholarship Foundation to provide educational support to local students. The foundation has awarded nearly 100 scholarships honoring Vicki's passion for education and supporting youth in her community. Clearly, they have taken a painful tragedy and used it to sow goodness and hope in their community.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
And so her boyfriend James started making phone calls. His concern was growing by the hour.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
We focus on cases like Vicki's because we believe it's an important step to keeping a victim's memory alive in the way that it matters. This case isn't just about seeking justice. It's about honoring a life that was taken too soon and reminding ourselves that every cold case has the potential for resolution, no matter how much time has passed.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Vicki's story challenges us to never underestimate the power of persistence and the importance of community. It's a reminder that even the smallest lead, the faintest memory, can reignite hope. And if her case teaches us anything, it's that we all have a role to play in ensuring that these stories aren't forgotten.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
But this was also clearly not the first time a woman had been reported missing by a boyfriend. Women leave their partners all the time and for all sorts of reasons. So from a law enforcement perspective, I'd want to know a little bit more about Vicki's boyfriend and their relationship before making any assumptions about any potential crime.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
And while police were on the lookout for both Vicky and James' missing car, they were also keeping an eye on James himself for any signs he may be involved in Vicky's sudden disappearance.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
You know, sometimes it's really hard to imagine how police managed to find anyone in a world before omnipresent video cameras at every stoplight, toll booth, convenience store, and even ATM machine, let alone cell phones pinging our every move.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
But the police in 1979 did everything in their power to try to locate Vicky, from issuing an APB on her and the car to recreating a timeline of her movements to in hopes of finding any clues to her whereabouts.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Deputies from Charles County, Maryland, responded to the scene where they discovered the partially clothed body of a young woman.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
The description of the woman matched the missing person's case file in neighboring Prince George's County.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Tragically, Vicki's missing persons case was now a homicide investigation. And so detectives switched gears and got to work securing the crime scene and scouring the area where the body was found for any potential clues.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Investigators canvassed the remote area where the body was found, but turned up no witnesses to the crime, nor did they have any clues as to how she even got there since James's car was nowhere to be found.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Absolutely. I mean, in 1979, getting fingerprints at the scene would have been really, really helpful because that was what the technology brought to crime solving was fingerprints, is being able to not only get them off of a shell casing or getting them off of a vehicle, but they could yield a potential suspect. That wasn't going to happen here. They had nothing to go by. So you're right.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Old-fashioned, knocking on doors, you know, getting out of the office, talking to people, trying to get information about who your victim was and maybe who may have wanted her dead.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
As weeks passed into months, Vicki's murder remained unsolved. The little evidence investigators did have, the bullet, Vicki's clothes, and some hair and nail samples, were all stored and preserved in an evidence locker with the hopes that one day they would help identify a killer.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
But Vicki's family also made it their mission to never let her case be forgotten.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
year after year her siblings contacted police in maryland and dc to ask about any new developments in the investigation or new forensic technology that could provide a break in the case and that perseverance would eventually pay off never forget i was on a search warrant in another county and she texted omg belk with exclamation points and i called her and she's like we got a name
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Investigators had preserved the clothes she was wearing, which they believed might contain biological evidence left by the killer. But DNA testing that could possibly identify that person was still decades away.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
But the one thing we don't talk enough about is how sometimes a tragedy can be the impetus for positive change or the driving force behind a life mission.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
John Elliott was just a kid when Vicki was killed, not much older than the son she had left behind. But in 2007, he was a veteran investigator and his and Vicki's paths would soon cross.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
John knew that DNA testing had revolutionized cold case investigations, and he hoped that if he could recover DNA from Vicky's dress and create a viable DNA profile, they had a chance of solving the case.
Anatomy of Murder
Justice Delayed (Vickie Lynn Belk)
Along with the massive backup of cold cases, John was also facing the reality that the technology was still not advanced enough to extract and test the DNA left at the crime scene with a high degree of success.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
In other words, he was not a bad guy despite a rough childhood. Ernie chose to go straight. And according to police, he really had no enemies or known involvement with the local drug trade.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Growing up, Ernie had a knack for all things electronic and was known in school as the kid who could just fix about anything. Like a lot of teenagers, Ernie enjoyed playing video games, finding a safe refuge online from what could sometimes be a challenging home life.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
So what were the theories? Was this a robbery or was it some personal vendetta against Ernie's father? There was only one way to find out. But investigators had to move fast.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
With no other witnesses or leads, investigators turned back to their only source of information.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
So a little background on Samantha. She was a stay-at-home mom who certainly had her hands full with five children, including two sets of twins. But she also harbored some ambitions of her own.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
And in these videos, she made it pretty clear that her relationship with Ernie was not a picture-perfect marriage.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
So this is what I would refer to as the snapshot portion of your investigation. And here's what I mean. In order to really learn about any potential motives, you need a clear picture of what was going on in your victim's life at the moment that they were killed. And if a relationship could be part of that, that snapshot or frozen moment in time can give you a lot of information.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Yeah, I mean, is she trying to get attention through these YouTube videos? Is she wanting people to feel bad for her, in a sense? Someone who may be struggling with five children. But deputies had Samantha in the interview room at the sheriff's office, and detectives were eager to find out what the truth was. Instead, Samantha treated investigators to another bizarre performance.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Seeming to realize that she was being filmed and recorded, the aspiring influencer and actress, who had once played an extra on a zombie movie, demonstrated that there was no camera that she didn't love.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Another great way to find a little joy, falling in love, which is exactly what happened when Ernie met an aspiring YouTube creator named Samantha Walford in 2008. Samantha had already had two kids from a previous relationship, but Ernie was ready to be a dad. After they got married, they quickly added kids number three, four, and five, all by the time Samantha was just 24.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
While this might not be Broadway, these Texas sheriffs knew a performance when they saw one.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
This Johnny Reb, his real name was Jonathan Sanford, and not only did he have a criminal record, he had just recently been released from prison.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
In Titus County, Texas, sheriff's deputies were running out of patience with the 24-year-old wife of Ernie Ibarra.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
According to investigators, Sanford was a potentially dangerous man, so his threats were not to be taken lightly.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
She was even so kind as to tell police exactly where they could find Sanford.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Investigators were also able to establish his association with two other men, Jose Ponce and Octavius Rime, and together they had made a plan. Here's audio from the investigators' interview with Sanford.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
But if the plan was just to give Ernie a beating, the three men's true motive was revealed in what happened next.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Sanford was describing the sound of the single gunshot that killed Rooney Ibarra.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Sanford directs investigators to a remote wooded area near Sand Crossing in adjoining Camp County.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
It all started in the early hours of February 20th, 2015, when Samantha's mother, Rosie, received a frantic call from her daughter who said intruders had just broken into her and Ernie's home.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
The murder weapon would be recovered from the home of one of Sanford's accomplices, Octavius Rime.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
It definitely raises some real questions. We have a body and the murder weapon and we have confessions and all of that Anastasia is lining up with the physical evidence. But at that very moment, a big question does still remain. Did she have anything actually to do with her husband's murder?
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
I mean, maybe she planted a seed in their heads that she needed to get something done or she wanted him hurt. She never expected it to turn to murder. And maybe she truly was worried or feared retribution from her husband of getting beat up, or she feared retribution from the three offenders if she turned on them. So I don't think they had the actual answer at that very moment. Agreed.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
I think her statements to police led them to believe that she wasn't being truthful, that she was putting on an act, and that she was really coming up with answers to questions, even though it seemed she was making it up on the fly.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Samantha's texts and cell phone records revealed extensive communications between her and Sanford in the day leading up to the murder. Her location data also matched up with Sanford's version of events and proved that Samantha Wolford was an essential part of their plan.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
And in the early hours of February 20th, Wolford gave her answer in the affirmative.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
In their second interview with her, detectives confronted Walford with the damning evidence against her, but she doubled down on her innocence, even going as far to suggest that maybe her husband was dealing drugs and had invited this violence on himself.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
But thanks to the confessions of two of Ernie's killers and a mountain of digital forensics, they had her dead to rights.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Jonathan Sanford and Jose Ponce accepted plea deals in exchange for their testimony at trial.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Samantha Walford's murder trial began in September of 2017, more than two years after the murder of her husband, Ernie Ibarra.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Samantha's aunt and her boyfriend found Samantha upstairs, where she was gagged and bound. Downstairs, they saw blood, a chunk of hair, and other signs of a violent struggle.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
He also testified that Samantha was, in fact, the mastermind behind her husband's murder. She knew what she wanted done, and she knew exactly what Sanford and his accomplices were capable of.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Those texts all demonstrated a consciousness of guilt and a clear intent to cover up her involvement in the crime.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Whether it was her ego or confidence in her acting abilities, Walford was convinced that she would get away with it.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
The murder of Ernie Ibarra had lasting effects on the many people that loved him and relied on him.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
The irony of Samantha Wolford lies in the shocking duality of her persona. A YouTube vlogger who presented herself as a loving, relatable mother, yet secretly masterminded a plot so heinous it defied the very image she portrayed. Samantha's carefully crafted online presence painted her as a woman struggling through the everyday challenges of parenthood.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
But behind the scenes, she orchestrated a chilling plan to murder her husband. The contrast between her seemingly benign digital persona and the cold, calculated reality of her crime highlights a disturbing truth. In today's social media age, appearances can deceive. Even the most polished profiles can mask sinister realities lurking beneath the surface.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
But the tragedy doesn't stop with Samantha's deception. There were other victims here. The children left behind. Their father is gone and their mother now faces decades behind bars. For them and for Ernie's entire family, the cost of Samantha's choices is a lifetime of loss. And that's a pain no sentence can ever truly erase.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Anatomy of Murder is an AudioChuck original produced and created by Weinberger Media and Forseti Media. Ashley Flowers is executive producer.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
According to Samantha, the men repeatedly hit Ernie with a pistol, causing him to bleed heavily from his face and from the top of his head.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
But what was perhaps even more terrifying was the possibility that this was not some random attack. Because according to Samantha, the masked men referred to her husband by name.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Now, this is one of those really rare opportunities to listen to this investigation unfold from the first knock at the door with the help of audio from the deputy's body cam. When deputies from the Titus County Sheriff's Department arrived at the home shortly after receiving the 911 call, you could hear that they immediately noticed damage to the front door, possibly indicating forced entry.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
And of course, with Ernie's life possibly in danger, time was of the essence.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
And unlike in the more suburban areas, there also wasn't any security footage or neighborhood ring cameras that could have captured the suspects on video.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Whether it's scrolling social media, online gaming, or starring in their own YouTube channel, many people see the internet as a virtual world offering community, a bit of fantasy, and for some, even the promise of online fame or fortune.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Big Ernie was her husband's father, the one we had mentioned who had a criminal history. And in Samantha's retelling, she repeatedly mentioned that he or his money may have been the real target. Did you hear him say anything else besides what you told us?
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Later on in the body cam audio, you can actually hear more of that suspicion in their voices, like in this recorded conversation where they discuss how the intruders made their way in so quickly to the upstairs bedroom.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
So was she telling the truth or was her acting skills better than she was letting on? Because if Samantha's account of her husband's abduction really was an act, it could only mean one of two things. Either he wasn't really in danger or she had a hand in the crime.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Ernie's 24-year-old wife, Samantha, witnessed the assault. And after being untied, she told Titus County deputies that the vicious attack may have been something to do with Ernie's father and his criminal past.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
Yeah, you know, to me, it seems like every time they questioned a part of her story, she quickly came up with a version that she thought may have answered the question. But it didn't seem to match any of the physical evidence on scene, starting with what may have been that, as you said, Anasika, stage to fourth century.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
But as we know, in the real world, there are consequences to our actions. And when fantasies give way to lies, people can get hurt and even killed.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
And then the Houdini-style skills. To be able to dial a cell phone after being tied up, I mean, is it possible? Yeah. As an investigator, you have to look at everything, but you also have to have that sixth sense to really realize something is not right.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
And not only that, Samantha at times seemed almost kind of nonchalant, more interested in those deputy sheriffs than she was her own kids.
Anatomy of Murder
Behind the Mask (Ernest Ibarra)
And like in any violent crime, especially one in which the victim appears to have been specifically targeted, investigators needed to look into Ernie's background and try to identify any friends, connections, or enemies who might have had a motive to do him harm. It's called the victimology portion of your investigation.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Losing a child is a pain no parent should ever have to bear. But for Bianca's family, grief was only the beginning. What followed was a relentless, unthinkable cruelty. One that didn't end with her death.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
The person to blame for Bianca's death was obviously the main suspect in this homicide, Brandon Clark, who had confessed online and had been apprehended at the crime scene and placed into custody. But in the aftermath of this tragedy, there seemed to be more blame to go around.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Namely, the social media companies and their controversial algorithms that were turning a family's worst nightmare into viral clickbait.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
I mean, is it feasible to fully prevent the dissemination of graphic images of murder victims on social media? At this very moment in time, to my knowledge, no. It's unrealistic. And here's the challenge. The spread of such images is mostly challenging due to the vast and instantaneous nature of social media platforms.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
However, platforms need to work harder with implementing stricter content moderation policies, enhancing automated detection systems, and fostering education that could significantly reduce the circulation. These are, Anastasia, collaborative efforts between platform operators and legislators and users, which is essential to potentially eradicate this issue effectively.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
It's something you say all the time, which is re-victimizing. I mean, could you think of another way that this is not such a great example of the victim being re-victimized?
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
But even with the confessed killer in custody, questions about the suspect's motives and mental state would make sure that justice would not come easy. By the time police confirmed 17-year-old Bianca Devon's death, gruesome images from the crime scene taken by the killer himself had already spread online, reaching strangers, friends, and even her family.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
But while investigators could not stop photos from spreading online, they could focus on finding out the truth of what led to the murder and to Brandon Clark's compulsion to share his sickening crime with the world. What they found was chilling.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
What was known was that Clark had started out as a fan of Bianca's. Comments on her Instagram posts led to private chats on Discord and eventually to plans to meeting up in real life.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Investigators knew Bianca had traveled with Clark and another male friend named Alex to a concert in Queens on July 13th. According to Clark himself, he had witnessed Bianca and Alex kissing at the concert, a moment investigators speculated may have sent Clark into a jealous rage.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
But there is one critical piece of evidence that suggests that this was not some crime of passion or spur-of-the-moment altercation that turned deadly. And that is the fact that Clark already had the knife with him that he used to kill her.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
But there was one place where Bianca didn't feel so alone online. The internet became a place where she could escape judgment, express herself and connect with others who shared her interests.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
And all of these notes and searches, they were made long before the moment Bianca had rebuffed him for another boy. In fact, Kemp says that the two were on seemingly good terms even up to the night of the concert. So clearly, his homicidal plans were not motivated out of anger or jealousy. There was something darker at work.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
And part of the tragedy of Bianca's murder is that you could see traces of that same jealousy, that same indifference to life in the sharing of the crime scene photographs, even weeks and months after her violent death.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Clark was arrested and charged with Bianca's murder before he ever had a chance to leave the hospital where he was recovering from a self-inflicted wound. He initially pleaded not guilty, but later admitted to the crime in February of 2020.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
So, Ana Siga, this is clearly not the first time, or unfortunately the last time, that a murderer would be interested in making headlines. And now, as we've said, with the help of so many social media platforms, becoming famous for something as gruesome as a murder is just a click of a button away.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
And in the wake of Bianca's murder, Kim refused to let her daughter be defined by her death. To this day, she has fought for accountability on the parts of both social media companies and legislators.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
For Bianca's loved ones, the fight isn't just about policy. It's about making sure she is remembered for more than what happened to her, for who she was.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Bianca's story is one of profound loss, but also one of profound love, the kind that persists even in the darkest times.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
During my conversation with Kim for this episode, I was just so taken aback that even to this day, years after her daughter was murdered, basically in front of followers, She gets notified her daughter's picture has popped up on some platform, making it pass a filter that's supposed to be set up.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
This is re-traumatizing, reliving an horrific event, and re-victimized those who care so much for Bianca Devins still to this day. And after I hung up with Kim, I thought to myself, why not help spread the beauty of Bianca and her work, something she was so proud of? So on my Instagram account, I've chosen to display one of her drawings.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
It's beautiful, it's touching, and I hope that you'll share it as well. Doesn't she deserve it?
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Kemp taught our kids about the importance of online safety, but even with the best guidance, the internet can be difficult to navigate, especially for a teenager that may be struggling with feelings of belonging and identity. A social connection or a compliment, even from a stranger, can be exhilarating, even empowering.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Bianca's talent and charisma were infectious, and her social media following grew. Friends gave way to fans, and her popularity as a so-called e-girl gave way to a kind of online celebrity.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Most of these young men lingered on fringes of chat rooms and comment boards, watching, liking, and sometimes commenting on Bianca's posts.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
One of those people was 21-year-old Brandon Clark, who followed Bianca on Instagram. And in 2019, the 17-year-old Bianca even had hopes that her friendship with Brandon was one that could blossom, not just online, but IRL, in real life.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
And this is Anatomy of Murder. Most of us think of the internet as a place to connect, create, and find community. But for Bianca Devins, a 17-year-old girl from Utica, New York, it was a sanctuary, a space where she could express herself, share her art, and build friendships.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
But it was also clear that Brandon had high hopes that their friendship might turn romantic.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Bianca had made it safely to the concert, was in constant communication by text, and was in the company of someone that Kim had met personally and trusted. When it comes to parenting a teenager, that's about as good as it gets.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
It was past midnight when a photograph appeared online. A graphic image of a young woman, unmoving and covered in blood. Even in the pre-dawn hours, the disturbing photo was already making the rounds on Instagram and Discord, where it was accompanied by a single haunting message. Sorry, you're going to have to find somebody else to orbit.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Acting on this information, local police in Utica were dispatched to the Devons' home to conduct a welfare check on Bianca. It was her younger sister that answered the door, and that fateful conversation with local police was recorded by an officer's body-worn camera. Is there a Bianca Devons that lives here?
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
In Utica, New York, the mother of 17-year-old Bianca Devins was awakened by a parent's worst nightmare, a knock on the door from police.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Meanwhile, 911 operators were still fielding calls from concerned friends and followers of Bianca's who had seen her photograph online. But one call was very different from the rest and more disturbing.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Law enforcement converged on the location Clark gave the dispatcher, which was a dead-end street near a wooded area of East Utica, just a few miles from Bianca's home.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Now, Anastasia, this may just be the opposite of what some of our listeners may be thinking, which is to rush right in. But actually, it is to slow everything down. Be tactical, methodical on your approach. Situational awareness and threat assessment is key.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Now, I have been in armed confrontations on the job where the primary goal was to always begin with de-escalation using something that they call verbal judo, which is to use your voice attempting that de-escalation and also to distract your subject when you have a potential victim nearby that you want to get to right away.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
But as law enforcement did close in, they realized that the young man was not just holding a knife. He also had a camera and he appeared to be live streaming what he intended to be his final seconds alive.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
That's Bianca's mother, Kim Devins, who told us that even as a young child, her daughter was full of life, curious, and creative.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
Officers moved quickly, but before they could disarm him, Clark turned the knife on himself. The knife was eventually wrestled from his control, and his wound immediately tended to. Incredibly, he had survived the self-inflicted attack. Tragically, the young woman lying next to him was already deceased.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
And while they suspected that the victim was Bianca Devins, her injuries were actually so severe that investigators struggled to visually identify her from her photos.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
As you can hear from the officer's body cam audio, police wanted to confirm the victim's identity before they relayed any news to Bianca's family. In these situations, it's important to be sensitive and sure before making any notifications to a victim's family.
Anatomy of Murder
Posted (Bianca Devins)
But the reality was inescapable, especially after investigators shared the personal items found at the crime scene, details only those close to Bianca would recognize.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Investigators already had video proof that CanCam's car had been seen outside the apartment building on the night of the murder. But this video put him inside the apartment, time-stamped within the hour of her estimated time of death.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
So, Anastasia, I think it would be good for us if we mention that we have the video, we've seen it, but we've chosen not to use any of it because of the violent nature of what's being shown.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
In other words, CanCam was drunk, angry, and armed, and his temper showed no signs of abating.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
In the prosecutor's opinion, the video was as close as he'd ever seen to a smoking gun.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
In that second video, it's daylight hours, and CanCam is very obviously intoxicated. Samaya can be heard confronting him about his treatment of her.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
This video in particular is frightening, not just because it seems to foreshadow her murder, but because it's clear that Somaya seems to have no idea just how close to death she might have been at that very moment.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
So from the perspective of homicide investigators, I would imagine that these videos, along with the other circumstantial evidence pointing towards Cam Cam as the killer, were about as good as it was going to get. And if I was working this case and taking it to Brian, I'd be pretty eager to tell him to make an arrest.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And so, Adesika, no surprise here, the career prosecutor in Alexandria, Brian, he agreed with you. And the investigators held off on arresting CanCam until they gathered more information about him and potentially even more evidence. He didn't have much of a criminal record.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
So while Brian wasn't ready to bring murder charges, they did think it was time to invite him to the station to get his alibi for the night of the murder.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Disarmed by their congenial and routine demeanor, Can-Can was more than willing to talk, oblivious to the fact detectives were holding an ace up their sleeve.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And so detectives let him do just that. And immediately they noted how the details of his statement contradicted what they already knew from the videos recovered from Samaya's phone and the apartment building's security cameras.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Brian has been the elected prosecutor in Alexandria since 2014, and in that role, he has overseen a large number of homicides, including the one that occurred in January of 2019 that set a template for how digital evidence could be used effectively in criminal investigations.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
But CanCam's biggest lie had to do with the gun seen on that video, the gun that police believed was likely the murder weapon.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
CanCam also thought he was the smartest guy in the room, but he actually was his own worst enemy.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
That's what you see in the movies, right? The moment where the house of cards tumbles and the suspect finally breaks down and spills his guts. Obviously, it's an understatement to say that this rarely happens. But there is also an argument to be made that it shouldn't happen.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
But then this moment happened. Not a confession, but an interesting exchange between the investigator and his prime suspect. Blaming the victim, followed by his own admission of his past of alleged violent behavior towards women.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
But while they were willing to wait for a confession, detectives were not as patient about waiting to make an arrest.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And after seeing the video of the night of Samaya's murder and the brutal aftermath of their confrontation, police knew exactly what he was capable of.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
She and Sumaya were friends as well as roommates, but they didn't see each other every day because they had different work schedules. So as she turned the lock in the apartment door, she didn't know if Sumaya would be home or not.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And this is a pretty common conversation between cops and prosecutors. And coming to the right decision is an exercise in communication, common sense, and most importantly, in trust.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Because it turned out that the, quote, smartest guy in the room did something that was not in his best interest.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Now I imagine that speaking an obscure dialect might stump local law enforcement, but never underestimate the resources of our friends at the FBI.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
The hope here was that this package might contain incriminating physical evidence that could further tie Cam Ken to the crime scene. Bloody gloves, bloody shoes, and maybe even the murder weapon itself.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Yeah, that's an incredible twist. And that's when you kind of know the investigative gods are really working for you.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
There was blood staining the bed where Samaya's body was found. What appeared to be a severe injury to her head. Her shocked roommate immediately retreated from the bedroom and dialed 911.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
When the informant arrived at Cam Cam's apartment building, detectives were watching as he called Cam Cam's wife and she stepped outside carrying a black plastic garbage bag.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And most importantly, police also recovered Somaya's wallet and the Glock firearm matching the one seen in the video from the night of the murder.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
So just listening to this, you all probably believe that this is a slam dunk, right? And maybe with this kind of evidence, you don't even need to go to trial.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
But in this case, it was pretty clear from his prior behavior and continued defiance that Kam Kan was never going to admit that he killed Sumaya and any potential cooperation agreement was off the table.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Adding to that challenge is the fact that one of the prosecution's key witnesses was a police informant. And when you're talking about risks of going to trial, asking an informant to testify in open court, that is certainly one.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
It was also clear that Samaya, who was just 35 years old, had not experienced a natural death.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
You know, I think you would imagine that some prosecutors obviously have hesitations about calling an informant to the stand, but it's one that defends
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
could counter and here's how the plan may go for them i mean they would try to attack the witness's credibility they could argue that the informant has a strong motive to lie such as a plea deal a reduced sentence or other undisclosed benefits in exchange for the testimony they would likely try to impeach the witness talk about potential prior lies they've made or unreliable statements they've made in the past so it is definitely not just a walk in the park for prosecutors to bring that type of witness forward
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
But in this case, the video and audio recording of the jailhouse calls, as well as the sting itself, really came in handy.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And while the video was brief, it was just as haunting as the others, showing just a close-up of Cam Cam's face inside of Samaya's bedrooms.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And in telling this new story, he had to concede that everything he had already told police in the interview room was a lie. But his new alibi was just as hard to believe.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
CanCam had also speculated that Samaya had taken her own life, but he figured that one way or another, he was going to be blamed for the crime.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
His testimony did not go over well with the jury.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Brian's cross-examination was thorough and relentless.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
A hush came over the courtroom as the defendant grew visibly uneasy on the stand.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
CanCam was convicted of two charges, first-degree murder and the use of a firearm in the commission of a murderer. He was sentenced to 23 years in prison for the first-degree murder charge and three years in prison for the firearm conviction.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
But surprisingly, there were also no obvious signs of a break-in or a violent struggle.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Like so many victims of domestic abuse, the realization of what her partner was capable of came too late.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
A young life cut down too soon by the heartless actions of one man.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
A murder cover-up never truly erases the crime. In fact, it often helps law enforcement solve it. Desperate attempts to hide evidence tend to be reckless, leaving behind more clues than the killer realizes. From sloppy crime scene cleanups to digital footprints and inconsistent alibis, these mistakes create more opportunities for investigators to crack the case.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Ultimately, while a cover-up may delay justice, it rarely denies it, because there's no such thing as a perfect crime, and certainly no such thing as a perfect cover-up. And while it's important to have the right detective on the case, collecting solid evidence, developing circumstantial evidence, it's tying all of that into a tidy bow for the jury, and that takes a skilled prosecutor.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
They are the last voice for the victim in the courtroom. And while all of these sleight-of-hand tricks the defendant may have displayed in attempting this sloppy cover-up, Brian Porter was there to make sure that Samaya and her family received justice.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And so investigators' first job was to begin their victimology. Who was Samaya Ahmed? And who did she know that might have wanted her dead?
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
According to her roommate, Sumaya did not drink, didn't do drugs, and as far as she knew, did not engage in any behavior that would put her life at risk.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
The medical examiner also confirmed what investigators had observed at the scene, that Soumaya had died of an intraoral gunshot wound. But there was also something unusual about her catastrophic injury.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
So, Anasika, there's obviously enough evidence to show this was a violent confrontation having to do with the weapon. It was an automatic, and when the gun was fired inside of her mouth, the slide of that weapon, which is pushed back forcibly by the weapon firing, damaged the back of her front teeth.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
Let's talk about the no forced entry into the apartment. It's kind of leading investigators into the theory and the circumstances of the evidence found at the scene that her person of interest was more likely somebody within a very small circle of people. Likely not a random confrontation, but something that was very personal.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And while discovering the victim and calling 911 is not always a guarantee that someone is not involved in a homicide, in this case, investigators were able to verify the roommate's alibi for the hours they thought Samaya was killed.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And those cameras, they're always rolling, constantly capturing all of the outrageous, the mundane, the inspiring, and the shocking moments of everyday life.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And her description of Samaya's so-called boyfriend immediately raised eyebrows.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
But according to her roommate, it wasn't just the fact that her boyfriend was married that was causing so much tension. The truth was that they were also very different. There were signs of an unhealthy power dynamic between the two.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
So now Ed, potentially armed to CanCam's dating profile, sounds like a real catch.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
The security footage placed CanCam's car at Samaya's apartment building the night she was killed.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
In January of 2019, a 35-year-old woman named Sumaya Ahmed was found murdered in her apartment, killed by a single intraoral gunshot to the head.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And as investigators the world over have learned in this day and age, there's no better piece of evidence than the victim's cell phone.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
But what happens when a camera captures something even darker? We've probably all seen the shaky footage of an escalating conflict, but rarely do we think about the real life violence that may have followed or the very real consequences when a camera may be the only witness to a murder.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
And that, of course, means not just unlocking the phone, but also bypassing passwords, two-factor authentication, sometimes biometric security measures. Until recently, this was the realm of hackers and whiz kids. But these days, most police departments have their own experts trained to extract critical digital information.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
But nowhere in the text were there any explicit threats of violence, hints that Samaya was threatening to end the relationship, or anything else that might indicate a motive for murder.
Anatomy of Murder
The Sting (Somaya Hussein Ahmed)
One video in particular shows both Samaya and Cancam in the bedroom where Samaya was killed.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Vancouver, Washington, not to be confused with Vancouver, Canada, is a suburb of Portland just north of the Columbia River.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
I mean, you hear Kristen there. They don't believe his story. It's clear even in the interview room, they just do not believe what he's saying. While he admits to being in the vehicle with our missing person, there's no evidence at this moment pointing to anything beyond a missing person's case. Suspicious? Absolutely.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But right now, the detectives don't have any other evidence to prove otherwise. And Anastasia, as you know, as twisted as transphobia is, police can't do anything about that viewpoint on its own in a legal sense here.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But eventually, that work did pay off. And once again, the key was using digital forensics to see if Bogdanov's movements matched up with his story. Instead, those cell phone records provided a disturbing timeline of those really early hours the same night Nikki went missing in June of 2019.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
And that's where he claimed he kicked Nikki out of his vehicle before supposedly driving directly to work in Portland. But that is not what his cell phone data showed.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
And lying to police, that's a pretty big sign that a suspect or a person of interest is hiding something or otherwise attempting to conceal a crime. What that crime is, police were determined to find out.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
As the weather turned from fall to winter in the Pacific Northwest, local support groups continued to canvas the area for any signs of the missing teen, but hopes of finding her were beginning to dim.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But on December 7th, 2019, this person discovered much more than he bargained for. Scattered throughout the woods were pieces of clothing and what appeared to be human remains.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Dental records would later confirm the grim truth. And the phone charging cable knotted around the victim's neck likely meant one thing. Nikki had been murdered.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
It was the prosecutor's contention that Nikki's murder was at least partly motivated by her identity as a trans woman, news that invoked pain and outrage from Nikki's family, her friends, and throughout the community.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Despite Bogdanov's own admission of being with Nikki on the night she disappeared, as well as his own stated anger over learning that she was a trans female, the case against him was still based largely on circumstantial evidence.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
let alone murders that grab national headlines, inspire a call to action, and galvanize an entire movement.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
One way was to figure out where he had been during those several weeks immediately following her disappearance. A job once again tasked with the Digital Forensics Crimes Unit.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But again, there's still no physical evidence that ties him directly to the crime.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
About a month before the trial, the defendant's lawyers disclosed that Bogdanov would be claiming he indeed was responsible for Nikki's death, but that he had merely acted in self-defense.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Trials are unpredictable, especially when a panic defense could be introduced. That may be some of the reasons why, and I see that these plea deals find themselves involved in the case, because even if the sentence is left severe, that what may result from a trial, for prosecutors, a lesser conviction may seem like a better certainty than the uncertainty of what this kind of defense could bring.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
And doing part of the public outcry, really just with Nikki's murder, Washington state actually banned this gay panic defense from being used shortly before beginning this trial.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Bogdanov's trial began in September of 2021, and it was clear from the beginning that pursuing justice for Nikki would not be a quiet event.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Online, Nikki was confident, genuine, and incredibly talented. But off camera, Nikki's life wasn't always the picture of stability and acceptance.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
The COVID pandemic meant the courtroom would be mostly empty, but cameras guaranteed that the trial would be broadcast around the country.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Bogdanov's self-defense claim meant he needed to convince the jury that Nikki posed such a grave threat to him that killing her was justified. The entire trial and his freedom were riding on it.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
On the witness stand, the first part of Bogdanov's story remained unchanged from what he told police that previous October, that he and Nikki met outside a bar and made plans over Snapchat to meet up later that night.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But on the stand, he claimed that it was Nikki that had attacked him.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Let's be real, cords don't just slip around someone's neck. For a looped cord to end up accidentally tightening, it would require specific movements, tension, and friction. And unless Nikki's head was perfectly positioned and forcefully pulled through the loop, something that defies everyday physics, The explanation just doesn't hold water. It's a convenient claim, but not a believable one.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
They've also likely examined signs for ligature marks, bruising, and tissue damage, which would have indicated a sustained and purposeful application of pressure. The amount of effort involved rules out any slip-of-the-loop scenario.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But if he was able to convince a jury that Nikki had at any time made him fear for his life, they could potentially find that he was guilty of negligent homicide, meaning he could still potentially go free.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Much of the trial would hinge on whether the prosecution could demonstrate to the jury that Bogdanov was neither sympathetic or believable. But in the end, the defendant himself, he did all the heavy lifting.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
The jury deliberated for two days, and in the end, Bogdanov was found guilty of second-degree homicide and the hate crime malicious harassment.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
The trial did more than establish guilt and put Bogdanov behind bars. It highlighted the legislative efforts Nikki's mother, Lisa, had pushed hard for since Bogdanov was arrested.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Nikki's parents were divorced, and so most of the time, she lived with her father while her mother dealt with some of her own issues. However, Nikki's mom was also her biggest fan, and the two of them stayed in touch daily.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
While plea deals may seem pragmatic from a legal standpoint, they can undermine justice and perpetuate prejudice. Prosecutors must balance securing convictions with sending a clear message. Violence against any LGBTQIA plus individual is never justified. No exceptions. A commitment to challenging the panic defense head on rather than compromising is essential to achieving true justice.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
At its heart, Nikki's case is a call to action, a reminder that we all have a role in building more inclusive, compassionate, and just society where no one has to live in fear for simply being who they are. It challenges us to examine not only the overt acts of violence that claim lives like Nikki's, but also the underlying biases and systematic inequalities that allow such acts to persist.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
a testament to the resilience and courage of those who refuse to let her memory fade without leaving an indelible impact on the fight for equality and justice.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Recently, Nikki had been going through her own struggles with narcotics, a battle her mom knew all too well. So when her phone calls and texts went unanswered, it was a cause for serious alarm. Here's prosecutor Colin Hayes.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Four long, anxious days of searching passed before her mother decided that it was time to contact the police.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Investigators did what they could, but interviews with Nikki's friends and searches of places that she frequented, they all turned up with no leads to her whereabouts. Additionally, there was no reason yet to believe that a crime had occurred.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Behind her self-confidence and street smarts, Nikki was still vulnerable. And the reality was that transgender people are four times more likely to be victims of violent crime than cisgendered, which meant that the longer Nikki was missing, the more her life could actually be in danger.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
With that phone now in the hands of the Digital Evidence Crimes Unit, investigators now had a better chance of creating a timeline for the night she went missing. And as it turned out, Nikki had indeed left a digital breadcrumb.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
According to friends, the time of the message exchanged coincided with what they said the time was that she left the house alone.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
You know, this is the first and most significant lead to build on so far. The forensics team will capture the telephone number tied to that Snap account that she was communicating with. By analyzing Nikki's account, they will be able to go back in time, uncovering potentially other conversations that could help the Manasiga develop some potential theories. As you said, was it a date?
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
or knowing her past history, was it potentially a narcotics deal? And this, of course, is where victimology comes into play. You have to also consider, Anastasia, the critical detail. This was 3 o'clock in the morning.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But when investigators tried to contact David Bogdanov, he turned out to be harder to reach than anyone anticipated. His phone numbers were disconnected, and his family members, they were even less help.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Now, whether it's due to blanket media coverage or celebrity obsession or public outcry, some homicide investigations can take on a life of their own, which creates a barrage of distractions for families, law enforcement, and prosecutors who are just trying to catch a killer and solve a case.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
Weeks turned into months without any new leads into Nikki's whereabouts or those of the man she made plans to meet on the night she disappeared. Investigators continued to send messages to Bogdanov over Snapchat in hopes of a response, but they got no answer.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
As potentially the last person to see Nikki, he could be a valuable witness in the search for a missing teenager or a possible suspect.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
As for his encounter with Nikki, he claimed it was totally innocent. But a detective's instinct told him that Bogdanov might not be telling the whole truth.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
On October 2nd, 2019, a man named David Bogdanov voluntarily walked into a Vancouver, Washington police interview room to be questioned about Nikki's disappearance.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
First, Bogdanov claimed that he knew nothing about Nikki's disappearance, a fact they found odd since the victim's advocacy group had plastered Vancouver with notices about the missing teen. And her case was also widely covered on local and even the national news.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But detectives were more interested in hearing about his version of what happened between him and Nikki the night that she went missing.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But before they parted ways, Bogdanov admitted he and Nikki exchanged information.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
They arranged to meet Nikki later that night to get his jacket back. Only this time, when he went back to pick her up, she got into his van.
Anatomy of Murder
Free To Be Me (Nikki Kuhnhausen)
But clearly the most disturbing part of Bogdanov's story was his blatant transphobia and bigotry.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
But tragically, in cases of child abuse, appearances can often be deceiving. So it was important to confirm Nicole's timeline for the 24 hours prior to Logan's death before investigators could eliminate her as a suspect.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Even Billy's mother, who, remember, lived just down the road from her son, confirmed that baby Logan seemed perfectly fine in just the hour prior to Nicole's frantic call to 911.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
That's Josh Summers, an experienced prosecutor at the Texas Attorney General's Office. In his role, Josh is often called in to assist on complex investigations or trials occurring in smaller towns and jurisdictions throughout the state that might benefit or can benefit from the full resources of the Texas Attorney General's Office.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
And that really left just one conclusion, that Logan's head injuries were sustained sometime after Billy left his mother's house and before he called Nicole to say the boy was not breathing.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
He also denied that he had done anything to cover up or obscure the truth of what really happened on the morning of July 4th. But as investigators examined both his home and the shed where he claimed to have been bathing Logan, they began to suspect that he might be lying.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
And there were some other things about the scene that didn't match Billy's story either.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
But could he really have had the time and opportunity to stage an accident in the brief window he was alone with Logan and before he raced off to meet Nicole at the hospital?
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Investigators also thought that the staging and cleanup of potentially incriminating evidence might have occurred after he returned from making his initial statement to the police. Because before Logan's death was suspected to be a homicide, Billy had not been restricted from the shed where he had said the accident took place.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Taking nothing at face value, investigators moved into Billy's home, the place where he slept, and the last place that Nicole saw her son alive. They were on the hunt for any inconsistencies in his story. What they found was a whole lot more.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
But whose blood? The answer would be a pivot point in the investigation.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Namely, the baby's diaper and the clothes he was wearing before his supposed bath.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Like Josh said, this was a rural area and burning trash was actually a pretty typical way of disposing of garbage. But on this day of all days, it just seemed more than odd. It seemed suspicious.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Investigators had narrowed the window of time when baby Logan could have been injured to a half hour when he was in contact with Billy Palaszczuk and Billy Palaszczuk alone. And now they had evidence that Palaszczuk had deliberately manipulated the scene.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
And when they do, it takes a special breed of prosecutor to make sure that young victim and his or her family get the justice and the care that they deserve.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
There were no witnesses, no murder weapon, and this being a child victim, there was obviously no motive or underlying conflict that would have escalated into violence. But clearly, a brutal, incomprehensible assault had occurred. The only logical conclusion law enforcement could make was that Billy Palaszczuk had killed Logan Atkins. Now it would be up to prosecutors to prove it.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Whether the escape attempt through the third floor window was a genuine plan or an attempt to end his own life, it certainly demonstrated a certain consciousness of guilt, or at least a resignation that he would ultimately be convicted. But in actuality, what it did was cause another long delay in his trial.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
But to do that, he would have to confront an alternate theory on the murder from the defense, that Logan wasn't injured on Palaszczuk's watch at all, and whoever was responsible for his death could still be walking free.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
That medical evidence included the proof that Logan had suffered not one but multiple head injuries that could only have been caused by deliberate inflicted trauma. In other words, child abuse.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Josh believed that piecing together this circumstantial evidence would tell a horrifying but convincing story.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Nicole Lambert was a small-town girl who had grown up in rural Texas. And while her life had not turned out quite exactly how she dreamed as a little girl, there was one very bright spot in her life, her seven-month-old son, Logan.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
It does, but I will say that here, while it's a circumstantial case and there's various possibilities that what happened, if at that moment you intend to inflict that injury, and again, like, is there any other reasonable explanation? If you strike your fist to someone's face or if you use an object on their head, at that moment, you intend to cause that harm.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Even if you regret it one second later or once you see that you've caused serious injury, like, that still is the same charge. But again, if he is remorseful, that may well factor in appropriately when it comes to sentencing. But again, it's kind of, for me, this too little, too late.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
I certainly would always prefer to have a defendant show remorse after what they've done, but it isn't going to change their level of culpability based on the evidence and the facts.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
And again, just kind of circling back to that what happened, you know, just to be clear, like it doesn't need to be even a minute, 30 seconds, five seconds before you commit the act. At the moment you are committing the assault or in this case that he was committing the assault, whether he just lost his temper at that moment, that act is intentional and that has to do with his charges.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
While a lot wasn't known, Josh has explained like why it wasn't that much to them was clear.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
After conceding that the injuries may not be consistent with the fall in the steel bathtub, Palaszczuk's defense team proposed an alternate explanation for the child dying on Palaszczuk's watch, that Logan had somehow sustained his fatal injuries before the baby was in his care.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
But the defense continued to sow doubt about whether a possible accident could have caused an injury that had gone undetected until the child was in Palaszczuk's care.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
the most common instance of one of these lucid intervals would be when an injured person is in shock and might not have noticed the serious injury until later. But doctors for the prosecution testified that there are few, if any, instances of this occurring with a child Logan's age.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
I'm Anastasia Nicolazzi, former New York City homicide prosecutor and host of Investigation Discovery's True Conviction.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
But these so-called theories were mentioned in the defense's opening statement, which meant that they were out there in the jury's mind as a possibility. And sometimes that's all the defense needs to do to inject that fraction of reasonable doubt so that, at least in their minds, may have been addressed.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
In essence, the defense's whole case hinged on painting Nicole as a bad or neglectful mother. And as witness, Josh knew she was vulnerable because the fact was that she didn't have means, right? She wasn't well off to say the least. She was a single mom who was already feeling the pain of beyond even just losing her child.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
But now the severe guilt of making that fateful and deliberate choice to leave her child with the very person now being charged with being responsible for hurting him.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
On the night of July 3rd, fireworks were already starting to pop around LaGrange, a small town on the Columbia River between Houston and San Antonio.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Palaszczuk did not testify in his own defense, although the prosecution did use his original recorded statement to the Texas Rangers to expose his pattern of lies and his deliberate efforts to cover up the crime.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
In his closing statement, Josh encouraged jurors to use their most valuable tool, their common sense. They did not have to be experts in forensics or crime scenes. They just had to follow the law and use that common sense.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
In Texas, they have what's called a bifurcated system, meaning the sentencing following conviction is a separate proceeding. It's a process that does allow the prosecutor to now introduce additional information that could influence the sentence. And that's what happened here.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
In any case where there are accusations of child abuse, parents are often scrutinized, sometimes fairly, sometimes not. And in this case, some uncomfortable truths about Nicole were exposed to the public, some having to do with her past substance abuse, the other having to do with her relationship with Palaszczuk to begin with.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
From there, Nicole underwent substance abuse rehabilitation and has remained sober since. she continues to struggle with the scar of losing a child to someone she knew and trusted.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Nicole returned to Billy's the next morning, tired but anxious about leaving her young son all night. But as she pulled open the door to Billy's home, she was relieved to see that the seven-month-old Logan was dressed in a onesie, grinning and giggling in bed.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Murder is always the most final of crimes, changing lives forever. A child's murder, a baby's, even worse. Logan Atkins should have gone to kindergarten, had playdates, scrapes on his knees, and giggled along with his friends. And of course, young adulthood and far beyond. These cases were always the worst for me as a prosecutor, and I still feel that way today.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Just as a person, they are the most difficult types of crimes for me, for both of us, to hear or think about. But as we have said from the start, they do happen. Logan lost his life to homicidal violence. He should be remembered. And that is why we must talk about them and think about it, albeit so very disturbing to us all. Logan.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Your mom and family loved you so much, and you should have lived a much, much longer life. Here at AOM, this entire AOM community, we all would have loved to hear or see who you would have, should have, grown up to be. So, what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? I approve!
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Nicole kissed her son and left him playing with one of Billy's guitars.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
If you've been an AOM listener, you may have noticed that we don't often cover crimes against children. Very often, stories about abuse perpetrated against a defenseless minor are just too hard to digest. Even as a prosecutor, I found that these cases impacted me differently than other cases because you were dealing with the most innocent of the innocent.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
The short visit to his mother's only lasted a few minutes, and by 11, Billy and baby Logan were back on his property. But the bright mood of the day would change in an instant, because it is then and there on Billy's property that something terrible would happen.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
As soon as she got that news, Nicole jumped in her car and raced towards Billy's home outside of town.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
And you can imagine why. The officer from the Department of Public Safety saw these two cars speeding down a country road. It looked like they were racing or perhaps one car was in pursuit of the other.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Within seconds of the stop, the DPS officer found himself attempting life-saving measures on a seven-month-old baby, which, as you can imagine, is as hard and as traumatic as it sounds.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Nicole was left with the devastating loss of her son and a host of questions about what happened. Questions that, at that point, only her friend Billy could answer.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
And according to Billy, on that morning, that shed was also where he intended to give the baby a bath.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Billy told the Texas Ranger that he immediately removed Logan from the tub, checked for a pulse, and even attempted CPR on the unconscious child. Asked why he didn't call 911, Billy told the investigator, "'I was a nervous wreck. My main goal in my head was I'm trying to get this boy to the hospital.'"
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
In baby Logan's case, there was one big problem with Billy's story. According to doctors, Logan didn't drown. In fact, according to his mom and the DPS officer who first performed CPR on the child, there was no evidence that he had been in a bath at all.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
An autopsy soon revealed the awful truth about the extent of Logan's injuries.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
One such case involving the sudden and unexplained death of a seven-month-old infant occurred in Fayette County, Texas, in July of 2016.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
That conclusion was that baby Logan had been struck repeatedly on the head, intentionally and fatally.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
34-year-old Billy Palaszczuk claimed that young Logan fell down while inside a steel bathtub, resulting in what turned out to be fatal head injuries, but investigators were immediately suspicious.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Obviously, the goal was to figure out who was responsible for Logan's injuries and ultimately his death. But that was not going to be as easy as it may sound.
Anatomy of Murder
The Caretaker (Logan Atkins)
Now, usually on the surface, and common sense would dictate, that the boy's mother, Nicole Lambert, was an unlikely suspect. According to the DPS officer who first encountered her, she was hysterical when he and EMS attempted to revive the boy.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Now, there is just no way to know how anyone would react to the news that your spouse was dead. But when Jason's mom recounted this story to investigators, it immediately struck them as a little bit odd. in making these types of notifications, I describe it as a two-step process. Both are equally heartbreaking.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
First, the fact that a loved one has passed, and then the inability at that very moment, in most cases, to have complete answers for the family, why it happened, and most importantly, who is responsible.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
So if you listen to enough true crime podcasts, you already know that the people closest to the victim are in the initial circle of suspicion. Now, as you know, Anastasia, it doesn't really make a difference in the legal sense, but in the sense of optics, it's something to talk about.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And Asika, I totally agree. Let me just add this. Let's say as an investigator, you're working a missing persons case, a case you've deemed suspicious from the start. Not being able to talk to the person closest to your missing person is definitely a hindrance to an investigation. But when you have a body already, you're just trying to unravel what happened.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And it does seem like a roadblock to your investigation, not being able to talk to that person. But it also just serves to emphasize the importance of collecting the direct and circumstantial evidence that could help solve this case. Because while a confession is good, forensics can be even better.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
I'm sure we're all thinking, what about DNA, right? But remember, Jason lived there in the home. So the presence of his DNA in the bedroom or even on Michelle's body could easily be explained.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And here it is. It was the definitive proof of Jason's infidelity, not to mention a brazen selfishness that he would carry on an affair with another woman in his own home.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Okay, so now we're talking, and it's like I hear that Law & Order music coming in here because a shoe print left on a bloody pillowcase, which could really only be left by whoever she was with in that room when Michelle was being attacked.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
In 1997, Michelle met a fellow NC State student named Jason Young, and the two had instant chemistry. Shortly after graduation, the couple was married and had a child on the way. By 2006, Michelle was pregnant with their second child, and that meant some big changes for her future plans.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
There were no hush puppies found in Jason's closet, but investigators were still curious if they could prove he was ever in possession of that particular kind of shoe. And so they examined the couple's credit card activity, and that led them to a shopping trip the Youngs had made to the local discount shoe warehouse the previous summer.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
It was a solid piece of evidence and certainly enough to give investigators the confidence to really drill down on Jason's alibi to see if they could find any discrepancies or holes in his all-important timeline.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
So presumably, after checking in the night of November 2nd, Jason went straight to his room. But what if he didn't?
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Not only that, but this same employee noticed that there had been something amiss with the exit door located right underneath the unplugged camera.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
But as it turns out, it was not the last time he was seen between checking into the hotel and showing up at his scheduled meeting the next morning. Credit card receipts revealed that he had made another stop at a gas station near the Virginia-North Carolina border.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And the time of his purchase of a full tank of gas was 5.30 a.m., just a few hours before his wife's body was discovered.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
In terms of circumstantial evidence, this was the motherlode. And any doubt that Jason was their prime suspect was quickly fading away.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Now, I know this might sound greedy, but as an investigator, I'd still be looking for more. A murder weapon for starters, or bloody clothing in his possession. Even a spot of blood in his car. Anything to help remove even the shadow of doubt that he was responsible for this crime.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
So at this point, the lead investigator and the prosecutor would be weighing whether or not this was enough to make an arrest, but also to successfully try the case.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
An affair with his wife's best friend. And it turns out it wasn't really even a well-kept secret.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And the tragic part about it was that Michelle not only knew about the policy, she had been warned that it was totally out of the ordinary and unnecessary.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
On November 3rd, 2006, Michelle's sister received an unusual text from Michelle's husband, Jason, while he was away on a business trip.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
I totally agree. I mean, this is a clear sign that Michelle's murder was not a crime of passion or accidental death from an assault. It was premeditated and meticulously planned.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
But convincing Michelle's family was one thing. Convincing a jury, well, that was a different story. It was partly why even three years after Michelle's murder, no arrest had been made in the case. And Anastasia, you know this. All of the pieces needed to be in place before they would bring a case in front of a jury. And building a great case begins once.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
with thoroughly processing your crime scene, a solid timeline, and really having all of your interviews and forensics lined up in a cohesive and digestible story of why your person of interest is the only person that could have committed the crime.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And you use the word subjective, which I think is perfect because, you know, you've had investigators banging on your door and saying, listen, we do have enough here. We have our killer and we'd love you to push forward.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And I guess it's your responsibility at that point to put a stop or put a pause in it until you really feel confident that you'll actually be able to be successful in your prosecution.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Michelle and Jason's anniversary was approaching, and as he explained it, he wanted to buy one of those bags for her as a gift, but he feared the printouts would spoil the surprise.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Finally, in 2008, Michelle's mother, Linda, filed a wrongful death suit against the man she was convinced took her daughter's life.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
At the conclusion of that civil suit, a judge agreed that Young was indeed responsible for Michelle's death. And while the verdict could not mandate prison time, it could bar Young from receiving any of the life insurance benefits from his wife's death.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
In December of 2009, Jason Young was formally indicted for first-degree murder, with prosecutors highlighting the couple's volatile marriage, his incriminating internet searches, and the inconsistencies in his alibi to make their case.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
If you've ever sat around and thought about what a suspect should do or not do in the lead up to a trial, Young was a case study. From the moment he first lawyered up, He never did anything to further incriminate himself in his wife's murder.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Of course, it's impossible to pinpoint why any particular prosecution fails to win a conviction. But I thought Richard had a pretty interesting take here, that it was not a matter of what was being presented, but how it was being presented to the jury.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
That daycare worker testified that Michelle's daughter seemed to be reenacting her mother's murder with dolls and pointing the blame squarely at her own father.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
So to discuss motive in such a cruel and violent murder seems almost beside the point. But clearly at the root of Young's evil act was narcissism and a selfishness that blinded him to anyone else's needs but his own.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And I think one of the things that makes this guy so terrifying is that he was smart. For years, he didn't overplay his hand. He didn't fake a 911 call and put on the histrionics that are often so telling of a bad acting job. He lawyered up. He kept his mouth shut. But in the end, it all wasn't enough.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
At the conclusion of the trial, Jason Young was convicted of first-degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Surveillance footage, a bloody shoe print, and the discovery of a jaw-dropping $4 million insurance policy unraveled Jason Young's web of lies as his alibi crumbled under scrutiny. This case wasn't just about the evidence. It was about the relentless pursuit of truth, brick by brick. by those who refused to give up. Michelle Young's murder, as savage as it was, bore every mark of premeditation.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Yet the deepest tragedy lies with the innocent, a young child left to grow up with the unshakable reality that her own father stole her mother's life. It's a wound that no justice can ever fully heal.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And so Michelle's sister proceeded upstairs to the master bedroom. But she was not prepared for what she discovered there.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And perhaps the most frightening detail of all, signs that Michelle's two-year-old daughter was also somewhere in the house.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
After rushing her niece to safety, Michelle's sister immediately called 911. But as the first responders arrived, it was clear that Michelle was beyond saving. The injuries to her face and head were severe and fatal. Upon preliminary examination, blunt force trauma had caused skull fractures, multiple lacerations, and several broken teeth.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
The autopsy would also reveal that in addition to being beaten, Michelle had been strangled and even had wounds on the back of her head that appeared to have been caused by an unknown object. A lot of the lacerations to her head had kind of a half moon shape. So in our interview, I discussed with Richard what kind of weapon could have caused that kind of shape.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
And what we're talking about is this crescent looking shape, which could be at the end of a bat or the portion of the end of a hammer. But he could only speculate because no weapon had ever been found at the scene.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
The fact that so little was taken wasn't the only clue that this attack was likely not the result of a random robbery or home invasion. First of all, there was no forced entry into the house. And two, the excessive violence of the attack, what we sometimes call overkill, to me suggests that robbery was not the motive. It was something entirely more personal.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
But if providing a good, safe life for a child is the epitome of selflessness, then denying that safety through acts of abuse or even homicide, that could be the most selfish act of all. Today's tragic story is one where those two opposites meet in a devastating act of violence.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Michelle was just 29, a mother of a two-year-old and pregnant with her second child. And as you can imagine, her murder was absolutely devastating to her family and friends, none of whom could think of any reason why she would be targeted by this kind of violence.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Jason was known by his friends as a popular guy and a skilled salesman who had a knack for being the center of attention, sometimes at the expense of others.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
When asked about the state of their marriage, Michelle's family did acknowledge that Michelle and Jason had hit a bit of a rough patch with arguments about money and his late nights away from home. But their relationship never seemed volatile and had certainly never turned violent.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
At least initially, his alibi appeared pretty solid. Surveillance footage confirmed that he had checked into a Hampton Inn at 10.54 p.m. on November 2nd, 2006. the night before the murder, and witnesses confirmed that he was present at his scheduled meeting the following morning.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
But of course, belief does not solve homicides. Evidence does. And in this investigation, detectives were just getting started.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
The brutality of the murder had the hallmarks of a personal and rage-filled attack and likely not the work of a random stranger, which left investigators in Raleigh, North Carolina, looking in the direction of one man, her husband, Jason Young.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
But even after confirming that he in fact had checked into the hotel the night of the murder and was present at an early meeting the next morning, there were still some signs that perhaps Jason Young's alibi was not as solid as it initially appeared.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Described as outgoing and personable, Michelle put her high spirits and positivity to work as a varsity cheerleader, first in high school and then at North Carolina State University. Here's Richard Spivey, a retired investigator at the Wake County Sheriff's Office in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Anatomy of Murder
Double Indemnity (Michelle Young)
Shortly after this meeting is when Jason texted his sister-in-law to go retrieve something from his and Michelle's home.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Back in the early 2000s, Ashley was a bright-eyed undergraduate at Utah State University. She was working in the school gym when she met upperclassman Emmett Corrigan, a popular Boise native bound for law school.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Sure enough, law enforcement discovered printed personal emails in Rob Hall's truck between Rob and Candy that indicated that he had uncovered the affair between Emmett and his wife months earlier.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
But investigators still had plenty to figure out. Like, was this really just all a heated argument that turned deadly? Or was it a planned ambush? Was it a matter of self-defense? Or cold-blooded murder?
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
The sole witness of the shooting was Hall's wife, Candy, who claimed that her jealous husband, Rob, had been increasingly agitated and angry in the hours before the shooting. Incredibly, their argument was occurring just as Ashley Boyson was confronting Emmett over her own suspicions about his infidelity, suspicions that turned out to be well-grounded.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Little did she know, her husband Rob had decided to follow her. His arrival was even caught on security video at the scene.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Remember, Candy is the only witness to what happened next. But according to her, Emmett was riled up and itching for a confrontation.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
And then she turned back around to find both her husband and Emmett bleeding on the ground.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Now, it's important to note that Candy never claimed to have seen the actual shooting. She only heard the gunshots. So police still don't know for certain what happened. Did Emmett really fire first, as Rob Hall said? The truth seemed to lie in the sequence of gunshots.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Now, you may be asking, why is this important? Well, just think about it for a second. If you're looking at it from a self-defense perspective, the one shot first followed by two more shots may mean that Rob's version could be correct, that he was shot and then fired two shots in self-defense.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Or if you're looking at the other version, two shots, pop, pop, and then a single pop could mean that Rob fired first two rounds and then turned the gun on himself and fired a self-inflicted non-lethal round. And Anastasia, this would be a really important point if they can narrow it down and really figure out what happened.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Yeah, and I certainly see that this is an important aspect of the state's case to try to determine who was the aggressor here. Something clearly doesn't add up, but it shows how important that testimony will be.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
It was a huge storybook wedding. The newlyweds beaming with youth and optimism for a long, happy life with each other.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Needless to say, Emmett's wife, Ashley, was blindsided by the events of March 11th, 2011. First, there was a shock of her husband's violent death. And then the revelation that her husband was cheating on her with the wife of the man who shot him. And it was at that moment she began to question so many things, even about herself.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Not acting sooner on those suspicions still haunts her to this day. But at the time, she had been committed to keeping their family together. But following her husband's death, the last time they would all gather together as a family would be at Emmett's funeral.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Puzzle pieces that would come courtesy not from the only witness to the shooting, Kenny Hall, but from the physical evidence left behind at the crime scene.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Robert Hall claimed he acted in self-defense. His attorneys would insist that he had no intention of killing Emmett, but only fired his gun because he believed his life was in mortal danger.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
However, forensic evidence contradicted Robert's claim of self-defense. On the night of the shooting, investigators had done a gunshot residue test on all three people present at the crime scene. Rob Hall, his wife Candy, and the deceased victim, Emmett Corrigan.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
The gunshot residue test undermined Hall's entire story. His credibility was shot.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
What she described in the aftermath of the murder did not support her husband's story that Emmett shot first, pop, and then he returned fire, pop, pop.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Considering the path of the bullet that caused Hall's wound, the gunshot residue on his hand, and the sequence of gunshots heard by his own wife, prosecutors argued that after Hall shot and killed Emmett Corrigan, he turned the gun on himself.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
And so if the prosecution could prove that this was not, in fact, an act of self-defense, the next step would be to decide if the murder was carried out in the heat of the moment or whether it had been planned. You know, when I think of the gunshot residue test is a big thing for me.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Eventually, the couple moved to Emmett's hometown of Boise, where he would begin his career as a lawyer and Ashley would begin building the home and the life of their dreams.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
The fact that the victim, Emmett Corrigan, had nothing in his hands to reveal that he had pulled the trigger completely blows a hole in the self-defense case, right? And it's the defendant's demeanor also on camera. that pacing back and forth before the shooting, that the surveillance cameras captured is important, I think, for the prosecution's case to show state of mind.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
In backing up even what you're saying is, you know, there was a fiery conversation with them moments before the victim was challenged to a fight. And for Rob, the answer was in his pocket, a small caliber semi-automatic handgun.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
During the trial, Rob Hall's wife Candy was called to testify as a witness to the murder. It remained to be seen whether she would be able to offer a truthful and believable account of the shooting.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
In regards to the shooting, her testimony veered from her original statements to police.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Candy Hall was clearly unfaithful. She tried to cover up her husband's guilt, and now she was a perjurer.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
For Ashley, the loss of her husband was compounded by both the pain of his betrayal and the knowledge that another woman, Candy Hall, was still living just a couple of blocks from where Ashley was raising her children.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
As for Ashley, she went on to rebuild her life. She has since remarried, and she and her husband have added two more children to the family, bringing the total to seven.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
In the years since her husband's death, Ashley has created a blog called The Moments We Stand, in which she shares her personal journey of loss and healing.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Ashley also founded a nonprofit to empower fellow survivors.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
The irony of Candy Hall's role in this tragedy is almost too stark to comprehend. Her choices, calculated yet impulsive, didn't just set the stage. They built it brick by brick for a confrontation that would leave her husband locked away for decades and Emmett murdered. She was the fragile thread that tied them together, and tugging on that thread, everything unraveled in devastating fashion.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
I was so impressed how Ashley was able to endure, find love once again, and raising her now seven children while advocating for others on how to forgive and find a way forward. I was so sad to hear her say that she felt that she wasn't good enough, she wasn't pretty enough, not worthy enough for her husband's attention.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Ashley turned unimaginable pain into purpose, a story of survival, redemption, and a path forward that inspires others to do the same.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
And by 2011, the couple had five children, a comfortable house, a couple of cars in the driveway, and from the outside, it appeared they had everything anyone would have ever hoped for.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Ashley also saw the return of one of Emmett's old demons. After years of sobriety, he had started drinking again.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
A month later, Ashley knew it was time to confront Emmett about her suspicions and hopefully convince him to begin the process of healing their marriage.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
But instead of being open to the conversation, Emmett went on the defensive, denying that he was having an affair and instead accusing Ashley of being unfairly suspicious, ungrateful and unhinged.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
That could mean the children of a murdered parent, the wife of a murdered husband, and even the many friends and extended family members of the people lost to homicide. We believe that their stories and their perspective on loss and justice are a crucial part of their healing process. and can maybe even provide strength to others going through similar experiences.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Instead, Emmett emerged from the bedroom, grabbed his coat and headed for the front door.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Then, just after 10 p.m., a flurry of 911 calls were received at a local police department in Meridian, Idaho. Witnesses reported hearing gunshots in the parking lot in front of a local Walgreens.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
First responders rushed to the scene, and what they found was anything but typical for this part of suburban Boise. Two men lying on the pavement, both suffering from apparent gunshot wounds. One is identified as the female caller's husband, Robert Hall. The other is 30-year-old Emmett Corrigan.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
You listen to me? Hey, hey, I need you to stay with me, okay? Where's the head at? Where's your head injury at?
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Making a death notification at the home of a family member is one of the hardest jobs a police officer has. But when that death has come as a result of a homicide, it is filled with its own set of challenges, not the least of which is gathering important information that may help to solve a murder.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
And he died. The bullet that hit Emmett's chest had passed through his sternum, through the right ventricle of his heart, through his left lung, and impacted his spinal column.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
Both gunshots were fired from close range. Ballistic tests would later confirm that the bullets came from a gun found at the scene, a .380 caliber automatic pistol with a laser sight, a gun that was registered to the other male victim, Robert Hall.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
According to Hall, the two men had gotten into an altercation in the parking lot, a scuffle during which his gun fell out of his sweatshirt pocket. He claimed it was Emmett who picked up the gun and fired first, the bullet grazing the side of Hall's head.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
So Hall admitted to shooting Emmett Corrigan, but whether it was done in self-defense, as he claimed, or was premeditated, that would still have to be determined and then proven out by the evidence.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
While her husband was being stitched up at the hospital, Candy had been brought to the police station so investigators could immediately take her statement. The information she shared would be vital in piecing together the events leading up to the shooting and whether her version matched up with what was being described by her husband.
Anatomy of Murder
Something to Fix (Emmett Corrigan)
It turned out that 40-year-old Candy Hall worked in Emmett's law office as a paralegal, and her husband had suspected that she and her boss had been having an affair for months.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The testing showed promising results.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
None of the known samples they collected matched any of the DNA collected as part of the investigation. So it was back to the drawing board, but not for a lack of trying.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The town of Lyle, Illinois, is just 10 miles east of North Aurora. Also, they had a cold case from the 70s that they hoped DNA testing could solve. And it had some striking similarities to Kathy's.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The following morning, someone on their way to work found the body of a female off of the side of the road lying near a guardrail. Initially, the scene appeared to be a hit and run, but that conclusion quickly changed.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
An autopsy revealed the remains were indeed Pam Maurer, and this was no hit and run. Pam had been strangled to death using that rubber hose, and there were additional disturbing details.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
But back then, the theory was that Pam had left her friend's house on foot heading to get a soft drink. And while walking, investigators say she came face to face with a killer. Hours later, they would find her body.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
And while initially they recovered some biological evidence from her clothing, it was unclear if she had consensual sex or if it was part of the assault after she left her friend's house. Her boyfriend and others were all ruled out as possible suspects by police.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Ryan spent more than a decade at the North Aurora Police Department in North Aurora, Illinois. For the past three years, he's worked in their investigation division.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Using the new advancements in DNA technology, they were able to extract a profile from the stain. And from that profile, a snapshot image was created of what Pam's attacker may have looked like, including his facial characteristics and eye color. The process of generating an image from DNA evidence is called DNA phenotyping, and it would come into play in a big way in this case.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The name of that family was Lindahl. Using the time and location of Pam's murder, police narrowed down the Lindahl's family's possibilities to two brothers who lived in the area in the 1970s. One of those brothers was Bruce Lindahl. He had lived and worked in the Fox Valley area for most of his life.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
In 1981, Bruce Lindahl was bowling in Naperville, which is a half hour east of Aurora. There, he crossed paths with a high school senior named Charles Huber.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Charles Huber was stabbed over 20 times.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Yeah, we see many cases, Anastasia, as you know, where the offender is cut because clearly stabbing someone involves a lot of blood and the knife gets slippery and it comes out of their hand or they end up injuring themselves in this frenzy of stabbing.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
But to hear him actually sever his own femoral artery, I don't know if I've ever heard that before, but it's certainly common, as you said, for them to at least be injured. And just the discovery that Bruce Lindell had committed a murder raised a big red flag for police.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
And the rest of his file only added to that suspicion, including charges from a horrible case that occurred a year before his death.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
She's like, okay. After the young woman got into the car, Lindahl also got in and held a sharp object to her neck. He drove her to his home in Aurora and proceeded to sexually assault her.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Just a few weeks before the trial was supposed to begin, something shocking happened. That young woman, whose name was Deborah Colliander, disappeared and was never heard from again. At the trial, there was no main witness to testify against Lindahl.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Yeah, he's a drummer, which is one of my passions. You know, Anastasia, you've actually come to see me play, which I really appreciated when you came out. For all of you who think that may be a crazy idea, I'll post a picture of myself from the old days. Please don't mind the crazy hair and the mustache. And then something more recent.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
But the timing definitely led to suspicions and to the discovery of something else. During the investigation into Charles Huber's murder, police had uncovered a box of photographs in Lindahl's home. It turned out he happened to be a hobby photographer, but his images were disturbing in the worst of ways.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Based on what they discovered, the Lyle Police Department secured a warrant to exhume Bruce Lindahl's body for a DNA sample.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Ryan and his fellow investigators in North Aurora were paying close attention.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Also, the year that Kathy was killed, Bruce had been living in Aurora, and his photography hobby would often take him to a location Kathy knew well, the Northgate Shopping Plaza.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
But Ryan really understood the difference between playing drums professionally and also working for the police department. But the music industry isn't always easy on family life. As Ryan's priorities shifted, he knew it was time for a change. He was hired by the North Aurora Police Department right before his 35th birthday.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The lab found results that were consistent with previous testing. They found male DNA, but they were not able to get a clear profile.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
On top of that, in 2022, a documentary film series came out featuring Lindahl's story, his troubling box of photos, and the murder of Pam Maurer.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
That airing of the documentary put pressure on police to link Lindahl to Kathy's murder or rule him out completely.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
And for context, the MVAC system is a high-tech wet-dry vacuum designed specifically for extracting DNA from porous material like clothes.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Ryan told the instructor about Kathy's case. The instructor connected him with a DNA expert who told him about a private lab in Florida that did impact testing he had learned about.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
And with nowhere else to go with the now decades-old cold case, Ryan decided to move forward with testing at DNA Labs International. The stakes were incredibly high.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
But they faced more than one hitch. The first was the price tag. It was a private DNA lab and the cost of testing would be over $20,000, a higher price than many small police departments could afford. Then I presented this to the chief and I'm like, hey, chief, here's the bill.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Not many police agencies in the U.S. has a dedicated cold case unit. They're expensive to run, and you're taking detectives out of the rotation, which may be investigating crimes which occur daily, and then asking them to spend months, if not years, working on multiple unsolved crimes. And as you say, then there's the cost of the technology.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
I mean, advanced DNA testing is really, really expensive. So those are barriers that many agencies have to pass over. And unfortunately, you know, these cold cases where you wish you had 100 detectives working on these cold cases, but it's not feasible. So with Kathy's case, the high price forced Ryan and the DNA expert to think strategically about which of the evidence to test.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
That was the case of Kathy Holly, a young woman who had gone missing in March of 1979.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Seasons of Justice provided a grant to the North Aurora Police Department to help pay for the testing, making the testing more affordable for the department, which helped get this important work underway.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
While Kathy's evidence was being tested specifically for Lindahl's DNA, the department needed to plan for the scenario that it wasn't a match, in which case it would need to be entered into CODIS.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
It may sound like a simple enough task, but in reality, it was anything but. They could ship the evidence, but what if it got lost in transit? They could fly to Florida with the evidence, but that brought up other complications.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Once they made it back home, Ryan and his partner waited anxiously for the results and at times talked through what getting the results might do for this case.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Then in August of 2024, Ryan took a few days off and went to Montana on vacation with his family. They had just finished a long hike and reached the side of a mountain where he surprisingly found some cell service.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
It was the moment Ryan had been waiting for, hoping for the confirmation they needed to finally link Lindahl to Kathy's murder. It couldn't have come at a better time.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Getting to the truth of what happened to Kathy meant a lot to many in the community. Here is North Aurora's police chief at a press conference announcing the development in the case.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The file looked its age. It had about 500 pages of handwritten and typed notes that barely survived the test of time.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The resolution wouldn't undo the decades of pain or bring Kathy back. But for Ryan, it was about giving Kathy's family the truth they deserved.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The DNA testing offered long-awaited answers to questions that had haunted Kathy's family and community for decades. They were able to piece together a likely theory of what had happened that night so long ago.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
She was a young woman from a close-knit family and one of four siblings. She shared an apartment and a car with one of her sisters. Kathy had recently graduated high school and worked at a record shop in the trendy Northgate Shopping Plaza of North Aurora.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
A state attorney explained to Kathy's family that they don't prosecute people after their death.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Here is the state attorney speaking about the investigation's findings.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Following the closure of the case, Kathy's family delivered the following statement.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
With Lindahl's DNA linked to yet another female's murder, the door was open for solving additional cases, potentially linking them to him.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The moment encapsulated the core of Ryan's work, giving families the answers they've waited for. No matter how long it takes, decades after Kathy Holly's murder, Ryan was finally able to write the words, on the file, case closed. This case underscores two pivotal themes, the relentless pursuit of justice and the transformative power of modern forensic technology.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
DNA technology has become the ultimate truth teller in criminal investigations, giving voice to the evidence that has been silent for decades and unlocking doors to justice that were once thought to be permanently closed. The resolution of Kathy's case marks a profoundly emotional chapter for her family, a mix of long overdue answers and haunting loss.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
In the cruel passage of time, some family members went to their graves without even knowing the truth, carrying the weight of the unanswered questions that time refused to heal. Kathy's case stands as a powerful narrative. Time can pass, but justice can still prevail, and hope
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
An hour passed, and when Kathy still hadn't shown up, her sister reached out to their parents, who hadn't heard from her either. The no-show was highly out of character for Kathy.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The family was told to wait 24 hours, and if Kathy still hadn't returned, they should file a missing persons report. But that didn't stop them from searching for her on their own. And that's when they discovered the first troubling clue.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Several things did seem clear, that Kathy had not made it out of the complex safely, and the blood pointed instead to either a medical emergency or something much worse.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
You know, honestly, I think it's pretty clear here that the family no longer thinks that Kathy is simply a missing person. From the start, they were the best ones to judge whether leaving without calling her loved ones was something she would not normally do. And I think this pocketbook on the roof tells a completely disturbing story.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
And while there still were many unknowns, the clues did paint a worrisome picture. Kathy's family quickly called the police and shared what they had found. When investigators arrived, they began to focus their efforts on Kathy's car.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
And this is Anatomy of Murder.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Between that, the state of the car, and the blood, it appeared crystal clear that this was not a simple missing persons investigation. Clear clues here that this could be an abduction or even worse.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
As part of their initial assessments, investigators also took a close look at Kathy's boyfriend, who they confirmed had been with her earlier on the night she disappeared. He had said she returned home before she left to get her car. He also was cooperative with investigators, and he had a solid alibi.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
As that car got closer, the resident said that he could see a man behind the wheel and there was also a passenger in the vehicle.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
This different version left investigators confused until it was late to learn why his story may have changed. The day after speaking with police, the man had gone out to his car and both of his headlights had been smashed in.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
The story of Kathy Holly was one shrouded in heartbreak and mystery. In 1979, at just 19 years old, she vanished without a trace. What followed was a void filled only by whispers of what could have happened. The clues were there, pieces of a puzzle scattered across the years. But the truth doesn't stay hidden. It finds a way to surface, even when buried deep.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
After the witness from the parking lot recanted his story, investigators found themselves back at square one. They temporarily turned their focus back to Kathy's boyfriend. And here's why. Not long after her disappearance, he had attempted to take his own life, a tragic event that fueled speculation in the community.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
Back in the 1970s, North Aurora and its surrounding area looked much different than the suburban sprawl that exists today.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
On April 24th, nearly four weeks after her disappearance, a local fisherman was at the Fox River just about a mile from Kathy's apartment. he saw something floating about 15 yards off the east bank of the river. It turned out to be the body of a young woman.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
An autopsy soon revealed numerous clues about how she died.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
There was also lacerations on her mouth where it looked like she had bitten through her own lip, possibly from being struck. When the examination was complete, the medical examiner ruled on Kathy's cause of death.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
At this point in the investigation, police had several pieces of potential evidence. Kathy's car, the blood found nearby, her purse, the witness observations, who had since recanted, and now the autopsy results. The clues helped build a theory of what may have happened to Kathy and where it may have occurred.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
While Kathy's case had stalled, as the years went by, advancements in forensic science were exploding. In the 1970s, investigators had relied on something called blood typing, a method that could narrow down a suspect pool, but it wasn't specific enough to identify an individual.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
And if we go a little deeper for a moment, because we always talk about DNA, DNA fingerprinting is like finding a unique barcode for every person using their DNA. Imagine your body has a blueprint. This is your DNA, and it's made up of a unique pattern that's different from almost everyone else except perhaps identical twins.
Anatomy of Murder
Waiting for Answers (Kathy Halle, Pamela Maurer, Deborah Colliander, Charles Huber)
DNA fingerprinting is like identifying one needle in a haystack, while DNA databases is like building the haystack and searching through it later. And by the early 2000s, DNA fingerprinting was widely used in forensic investigations. A North Aurora detective thought it was time to try the technology on Kathy's evidence, which had been carefully preserved for decades.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Yvonne kept insisting that everyone should just wait until the end of the school day. She was certain that Gloria would come home like she always did.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
One of the items was a school ID card. It belonged to Gloria. Yvonne's brother confirmed that this was his niece.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Because of Gloria's extensive injuries, Yvonne was advised not to see her daughter until she had been prepared for burial.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Police shared Yvonne's mission. They were under pressure to find Gloria's killer for more than just the most of obvious reasons.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
In Gloria's case, there was fortunately a significant amount of evidence collected and then prepared to preserve. They took her clothing as well as samples of bodily fluids that were found on her body.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
One person they spoke with was a teacher who said she had seen Gloria walking with a man. Several other witnesses had also reported seeing a man with Gloria. But between the snowfall and the man's bulky winter clothing, a description was hard to come by. Was he heavy, thin? Police were left only with a vague description, a critical lead, but one frustratingly short on specifics.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
An 11-year-old girl was walking home from the store when she noticed a car following her. A short time later, a man grabbed her from behind.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Broom had prior convictions for robbery, car theft, and sexual assault. He had served an eight-and-a-half-year sentence before being paroled only six months earlier. Following the attempted kidnapping of the young girl, Broom was arrested.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
From a detective's perspective, beyond the clear effort to connect these crimes through physical evidence, location, or similar attack patterns, there's another layer that demands Anastasia some attention, the psychological profile. And that's where things get really interesting.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
There's compelling data and behavioral analysis suggesting that some serial sexual offenders don't just strike once and retreat. In fact... Certain offenders, particularly those driven by compulsion, may attack multiple times in a single day.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
When their first assault is so-called successful, it may reinforce their behavior, heightening their sense of control and fueling their drive to strike again. And here, they also looked at a potential connection between Broom and the murders of another young woman from around the same time.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
It occurred just a few months earlier in the same area as the attempted kidnapping of that 11-year-old child.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
After Trina was taken away in the car, her two friends ran to a neighbor's house and called for help. And while they were able to describe what the kidnapper and his car looked like, it was too late.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
No one in the pictures stood out until they saw a photo of Rommel Broom. The friends were certain this was the man who had grabbed Trina during their walk. Broom, who was awaiting trial for the attempted kidnapping, was also then charged with the aggravated murder of Trina Middleton.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
A year passed with no answers. The following year, in 1985, Broome was found guilty of murdering Trina Middleton. He was sentenced to death. Justice for Gloria Pointer remained elusive as the years continued to pass by.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
In the years that followed, she told Gloria's story to anyone who would listen. Her devotion gained her community-wide and national attention. She appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show, won awards from Essence magazine, and former President George W. Bush named her his 908th point of light.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Yvonne tells us the things that were said to her, she will never forget. She said that investigators even suggested to her that perhaps Gloria had consensual sex on her way to school before running into the person who ended her life.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
So honestly, this is not our case, and we weren't privy to the evidence in real time as the investigators were. But coming from an experienced, let's say, 10,000-foot view, just the victimology of Gloria just doesn't fit the theory that she may have chosen to have sex consensually.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
The loss impacted Yvonne to her core. She mourned the things she would miss, like prom and the opportunity to pursue higher education.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
And, you know, as you just said, Anastasia, some theories are worth to be left just with the investigators as theories kept in the squad room. Unless you're trying to obtain confirmatory evidence, I could see any family, would struggle with this kind of information. And personally, I believe it lends absolutely nothing, nothing at all, to finding a killer.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Yvonne found the entire theory deeply offensive. She was vocal about questioning the direction the investigators were headed.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
One day, Yvonne Pointer picked up a pen and paper and wrote Rommel Broom a letter in prison.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
She had a feeling that Gloria's killer would be in there. She could not fathom that he could potentially be walking around in the community still free.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
It was an unconventional approach, to put it mildly. But for Yvonne, it was a way to turn her pain into purpose and keep her promise to Gloria.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
When I was trying to picture the scene after hearing her in your interview, Anasika, actually getting in there and determining that somebody within these walls likely killed my daughter and I'm going to find them. I mean, talk about determination.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
While Yvonne channeled her grief into activism, unbeknownst to her, investigators continued to actively work on Gloria's case. In the early 2000s, they were able to take advantage of the advances in DNA technology and test some of the evidence.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Yvonne endured 17 hours of labor alone. She was sick, in pain, and furious with her mother for leaving her. But that pain and anger led to something unexpected.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
But when they tested her clothing, they continued to get only an inconclusive profile, a frustrating setback in their pursuit of justice. For years, Ivan continued to write Rommel Broom, right up to the date set for his execution in September of 2009. Leading up to that event, Ivan decided to send him one last letter questioning if he in fact had killed Gloria.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Broom had written with what he thought were his last breaths, and that he claimed he did not murder Gloria all those years ago.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
The investigation into Gloria's murder changed hands and was passed to different detectives as the many years passed by. In 2010, they did further testing on Gloria's clothing using even a more advanced process for extracting DNA. This time, they were at least somewhat successful.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
But the work in finding those people and getting consent for the testing turned into a years-long process. By 2013, they were still not finished.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
When the reporter contacted the medical examiner's office to ask about the status of Gloria's case, it set off a chain reaction. And not long after, Yvonne remembers the DNA profile obtained from Gloria's clothing was finally entered into a statewide database. Now, this is a pattern I've seen from both sides of the aisle, so to speak, as a member of law enforcement and as a journalist.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
And this is what we call the spotlight effect in investigative circles. It's because a case has gone cold, whether sidelined, shelved, or placed on the back burner due to limited leads or strained resources, all of a sudden to spring back to life when media attention applies the heat. This isn't uncommon. In fact, it's often referred to as reactive policing.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
He had grown up in the same neighborhood as Gloria, and his father had owned a local candy shop. They had even attended the same junior high school, but at different times. Warren was 15 years older than Gloria at the time of the murder. He had nieces and nephews that were friends with Gloria and her brother.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
The previous sexual assault conviction seemed an unlikely coincidence to police. They decided to approach him and see if he was willing to speak about Gloria. And when they did, he agreed to sit with them. Here is a portion of that interview.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
The information let investigators know that they were on the right path. They decided to give him a polygraph test where they asked him more directly about Gloria's murder. He failed the polygraph. Warren was taken for a second round of questioning, and the tone of that interview began to change.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
In 2013, DNA evidence definitively linked Hernandez Warren to the murder of 14-year-old Gloria Pointer, leading to his interrogation about the chilling crime.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
He told investigators that when he noticed Gloria also attempting to leave, he pushed her down the stairs. Then he beat her with a nearby brick or pipe.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
From the moment she first held her daughter, Yvonne made a promise. Gloria's life would follow a very different path than her own.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Three women had been kidnapped a decade earlier and were held for all of those years in their captor's home. One of the women managed to escape, which led to the rescue of the other two women.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Yvonne was moved by her time with Michelle. Earlier that very morning, she had been in church having a challenging moment related to her own anger and grief.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
As Yvonne sat with her, Michelle said that she really would like a slice of cheesecake. Yvonne promised she was going to make it happen. But before she could, her time with Michelle ended and she was escorted out of the room.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
The detectives got right to the point. This was not about Michelle.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
In the lead up to the trial, Yvonne learned more about Warren, including what he looked like, something that took her by surprise.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Warren was sentenced to life in prison, and Yvonne took the unusual step of visiting him. She didn't want to speak to him about Gloria like she did with the other prisoners. This time, she had a different goal in mind.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Yvonne said she prayed with Warren, but he hadn't told her what she had hoped, and she ended their visit shortly after that. Warren had taken so much from Yvonne. He had taken her daughter, who can never be replaced, and he also had taken her sense of safety and security in the world.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
She remains unwavering in her mission to end violence and prevent other families from enduring the same heartbreak she has. In fact, the work Yvonne has done in Gloria's name could fill an entire episode. Here are just a few highlights.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
In 2003, Ivan was contacted by a boy in Ghana who had found an article talking about Gloria's homicide. He wrote Ivan a letter expressing empathy for Ivan's situation, and the two struck up a friendship that turned into a movement.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
But there were more surprises to come. Three years after having Gloria, Yvonne once again became pregnant. She felt like she was losing control over her life.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
With Gloria's death, Yvonne was left with a lifetime of unknowns. What would Gloria be like today? What kind of life would she have built for herself?
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Yvonne's faith gives her comfort, reassuring her that one day she will see Gloria again. And when that moment comes, Yvonne knows exactly what Gloria will say to her.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
My final thought is how a mother's love is unstoppable. Yvonne's story is one of strength beyond measure. Instead of letting her daughter's murder destroy her, she turned that grief into action, mentoring young people, working with at-risk youth, and advocating for victims' families. She proved that tragedy does not have to define you. What you do in response... does.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
This case underscores once again the importance of forensic advancements and the need for law enforcement to keep revisiting unsolved crimes. It's a reminder that there are countless other families still waiting for answers, still hoping for that one break in their case, a complete step towards justice.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Yvonne became even more determined to build a better life for herself and her children. She wanted to give them opportunities that she never had, a kind of life she had always dreamed of.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Inspired by Gloria, Yvonne worked hard to make sure her children were taken care of. Even when money was tight, she always found ways to make ends meet.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
As Gloria entered ninth grade, sometimes her mother's attention was a little too noticeable.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
When Yvonne Point's daughter was murdered in 1984, she knew that eventually she would find her daughter's killer. It wasn't just a hope or a wish. It was a promise, a vow made in the depths of unimaginable grief and one she intended to keep no matter how long it took.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Joining the squad had a positive ripple effect. Gloria set her sights on another goal and soon earned a spot on the school's basketball team.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
The ceremony was set for Thursday, December 6th. Gloria wanted to look her best and put extra care into her appearance before leaving on the short walk to school. But the weather outside had other plans. A snowstorm was rolling through and Yvonne insisted that Gloria wear a hat.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
It was still early and dark outside, so Yvonne was annoyed that Gloria had taken a shortcut, potentially compromising her safety.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Yvonne finished her route and returned home and started getting her son dressed and ready for the day. Then the phone rang. It was Gloria's school.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
So the school made an announcement over the loudspeaker asking if anyone had seen Gloria. Multiple people had seen her walking to school, but no one recalled seeing her on the school grounds or inside. 20 minutes after the first phone call, the principal called Yvonne back. And he said these words, call the police.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
But an hour later, things took a devastating turn. Police showed up at Yvonne's apartment door. They asked to come in, and they told her to sit down.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
For today's episode, Yvonne shared her journey of loss, resolve, and the relentless pursuit of justice for her daughter. Born as one of 10 siblings in Cleveland, Ohio, family was always a dominant force in Yvonne's life.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
When the building owner arrived, he headed towards the basement. At the bottom of a staircase, he made a gruesome discovery. A motionless body lay on the ground, and the man quickly dialed 911.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Her pants were down by her ankles, which together with the injuries suggested that a sexual assault had likely taken place. Nearby lay a piece of iron, 45 inches long and which weighed about eight pounds, and it appeared to be the murder weapon.
Anatomy of Murder
My Name Is Gloria (Gloria Pointer)
Police had told Yvonne that the body they found was yet to be definitively identified. But Yvonne's apartment was filling with friends and family, and people were concerned.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
And with Grant logging hours and hours watching and interacting with this webcam model, he was also spending thousands of dollars on virtual tokens in order to maintain what he believed was a genuine personal relationship.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
And much like addictions to drugs, gambling, or alcohol, it can cause not just a rift with a family and friends, it can also lead to a break with reality itself, sometimes with dangerous and even deadly consequences.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
To fund his obsession, Grant stole directly from his brother Cody. He maxed out his parents' credit cards. He even managed to pilfer funds from his parents' retirement account without their knowledge, all to lavish on a woman he had never met.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
As you can imagine, this is where the tension between Grant and his family really started to come to a head. Being exposed as a fraud online was a devastating embarrassment that jeopardized the identity he had created within his online community.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
For sure. I mean, you're looking at Grant and Sylvia's alleged relationship or what he thought was a real deep connection. And perhaps maybe call it naivety or just a complete compulsion, as you mentioned. I mean, he was paying lots of money to be in this online relationship and feeding this habit, this compulsive habit, as you mentioned. You need money.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Compounding that fear is the fact that Grant had access to firearms and he also knew how to use them.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Dominic is a nearly 20-year veteran of the prosecutor's office and dozens of high-profile homicide cases, but it wasn't necessarily the role he thought he was born to play. Or was it?
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
The very next day, Chad Amato, his wife Margaret, and their son Cody were found shot to death in their home.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
But as the full story began to unravel, Grant quickly became a significant person of interest. So Seminole County sheriffs issued an APB to locate either him or his vehicle.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
We've come and talked to you. You wrote up here voluntarily with us to talk to us. Why do you think we're having this conversation?
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Now, watching the video from this taped interview with Grant Amato, he appears pretty composed and even cooperative with law enforcement. He does not really present as a person who might be involved in the cold-blooded murder of his entire family.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
I'm giving you that opportunity. right now to tell me. Something you want to get off your chest. It's there. I can see it in your face.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Grant claimed he had spent the night out at a hotel after his father had kicked him out of the house. And while he admitted that his relationship with his dad was strained, he did deny having anything to do with the murders.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
You go to the interview, let's say you're there until maybe 11 o'clock, approximately. Where'd you go from there?
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
But I think his most telling, let's say, mistake was perhaps when Grant suggested that his brother, Cody, was responsible for his parents' murder.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Did Cody... I think Cody had his pistol. What did he normally carry? It was like a Smith & Wesson M9 shield or armor core or something.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
And in that time as a prosecutor, one of the cases that really stood out in his career was this one. And it all started on a clear morning in January, about 30 miles north of Orlando.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
And I think it also suggested that they were dealing with not just an angry young man with a vendetta against his parents. They may just be dealing with a cold hearted sociopath. And Anasiga, I did notice, as you probably did watching this, is that he's being very open. He's talking. And I guess the real plan here is to keep that open line of communication going.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Investigators even allowing Grant's oldest brother, Jason, to go into the interview room and confront him about their parents' murders.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
At this point, investigators hadn't even recovered the murder weapon because remember, the gun found at the scene was not the one that fired the bullets that killed Cody, Chad, and Margaret Amato.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
But they didn't wait very long. Just three days later, on January 28, 2019, Granamato was arrested and charged with three counts of first-degree premeditated murder.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
The prosecution were betting that the suspect's near-constant internet use, digital forensics would quickly dismantle his alibi and possibly help build an accurate timeline of the murders. But without a murder weapon and any convincing physical evidence, they still had their work cut out for them.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Luckily, the digital forensics in this case, from the movements of each family member's cell phones to financial records and, of course, Internet search histories, they all proved to be as valuable as prosecutors hoped they would be.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Even after Cody, Chad, and Margaret's bodies had been discovered, one of the family's credit cards had been used to buy $600 worth of tokens for access to Sylvie, the Bulgarian webcam model.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
During the trial, Dominic argued that it was just one of several clumsy attempts Grant had made to try to frame his own brother for murdering their parents. Another included a botched scheme to plant a forged suicide note.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
But on the morning of January 25th, all those plans came to a sudden and violent stop.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
In dissecting the crime scene more, they determined that the position of her body suggested that the shot came without any warning. The youngest Amato then waited alone for more than an hour until his father arrived home from work. And again, data from Chad Amato's cell phone helped recreate the scene.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
This is a hyper reconstruction of this crime scene. Not only are they using the ballistic evidence to determine, for instance, the brother had a holster on his body and the gun. And even though he was right-handed or left-handed, the holster was put on backwards.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
So, you know, they were digging into so many different ways that this did not play out the way the defendant was saying that what the evidence was saying and how this evidence coupled with old style police work and understanding what could not really be possible in a crime scene to what really is possible in a crime scene using this digital evidence.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Now, the defense countered that the prosecution's evidence was circumstantial and highlighted the lack of direct forensic proof tying Grant to the crime scene. But even in a world where DNA and trace evidence seems to get all of the attention, sometimes it's the totality of the circumstantial evidence and common sense and a holistic view of the crime that tells the most convincing story.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
After over eight hours of deliberation, the Florida jury found Grant guilty on all three counts of first-degree murder.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Never during his trial did Gran Amato ever show any remorse for the three murders, but he did eventually make some pretty startling revelations.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Any addiction can lead to an irrational and often dangerous break with reality. And it was Grant Amato's addiction to a fantasy, both an unattainable woman and an unattainable version of himself that led to a series of escalating crimes that ended tragically with the murder of three innocent people.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
This case forces us to confront just how profoundly obsession can warp human behavior, leading to devastating consequences that ripple far beyond the individual. Here's the irony. At the heart of this case, a man who wanted so desperately to be loved, to be admired, ending up destroying the very family that gave him that unconditional love.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Grant's obsession with an illusion, one he curated through a virtual relationship, became more real to him and then the family who stood by him, even in the face of disappointment. And when his fragile world of fantasy was threatened, he chose violence over accountability.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
A chilly reminder of how the human mind can distort reality when fueled by obsession, entitlement, and the refusal to face consequences. It forces us to ask tough questions about priorities, emotional insulation, and the dangerous intersection of technology and human vulnerability. In the end, Gran Amato destroyed what he said he wanted most, connection.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
And yet, he now lives in a place defined by its isolation. a prison cell. It's a haunting irony, one that leaves us not with answers, but with a sobering look at the fragility of the human psyche.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Seminole County deputies arrived at the Amado home at approximately 9.18 a.m. Despite there being multiple cars in the driveway, the doors and the windows were all locked and no one seemed to be home.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
When the deputy entered the house, it was immediately clear that those fears were well-founded.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
So it was apparent that robbery was likely not a motive in this brutal slaying that claimed three lives. But that still left open some pretty frightening possibilities.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
But even an on-scene examination by homicide detectives, of course, and a coroner determined that the scenario was unlikely. Cody's wound did not appear to be self-inflicted, and the gun was found too far away to realistically have been used to kill himself. And there were other telling details from the crime scene itself.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
And that right there suggested that this was definitely not some random home invasion or even a domestic dispute that escalated into violence. This seemed not only to be deliberate and planned, but almost professional.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Together, they had raised three sons, encouraging them to excel academically and to value discipline and hard work. Cody Amato, who was then 31 when he was killed, was a successful anesthetist known for his kindness and dedication to his patients. He was especially close with his younger brother, Grant, who had followed him into nursing and was also living at the home with his parents.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
But when deputies made contact with Amato's oldest son, Jason, who did not live in the house, he was able to provide some disturbing background, specifically in regards to his youngest brother, Grant.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
But according to Jason, it wasn't an addiction to narcotics or alcohol that Grant was desperately trying to finance. It was an online romance with a woman he had never met.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Oh, and we should also mention that Grant's Honda was the only car not still in the driveway.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
The fact is that even with the intimacy promised by the so-called social networks, the online dating apps, gaming platforms and even community chat rooms, there is a loneliness epidemic in this country. People are going out less, being alone more and substituting a virtual connection for actual joy, happiness or even love.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
After getting his nursing license, Grant began work at a health care facility in Orlando, while in his free time pursued a variety of healthy hobbies.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
In the summer of 2018, Grant was suspected of stealing a powerful sedative called propofol and then administering it to patients without a doctor's authorization and without the patient's consent.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
So the first question I would have, Anastasia, obviously, this is horrific, but was he trying to lighten his workload by having the patients that are under his care sleeping all the time? And of course, just the tremendous danger of administering a powerful sleep agent could easily have turned deadly.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Either way, this action he took had very serious consequences.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
Grant gave up weightlifting and airsoft and retreated to his bedroom, where soon his gaming hobby turned into a gaming habit, then an obsession.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
And remember, Grant was a 29-year-old college graduate. And instead of looking for a new job or his own apartment, he was in his parents' house playing video games, sometimes all throughout the night.
Anatomy of Murder
67 Steps (The Amato Family)
According to his oldest brother, Jason, Grant began frequenting pornographic websites, especially those featuring pay-per-view live streams. And it was here that he developed an obsession with a Bulgarian webcam model named Sylvie.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Jack Owen was sticking to his alibi and his parents, they vouched for him. So next, it was clearly time for investigators to talk to the other woman in this situationship, Mary Jo Lundsman.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
And so investigators press Mary Jo about what she knew about Yvonne and whether there was any animosity between them.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
When asked about their mutual friend Jack Owen, Mary Jo claimed she had ended her relationship with the horse trainer years earlier, meaning she would have had no reason to be jealous of another woman.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
So what about Yvonne's kids? Well, they were already convinced that Mary Jo was not just jealous, but obsessed.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Okay, so maybe Mary Jo was hiding something or just embarrassed of her affair with the boyfriend of a murdered woman. Not entirely surprising. But what about her alibi for the morning of the murder?
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
And so for me, if I'm the detective working this investigation, I'd be questioning, could it be just a little coincidental that she just happened to be taking off the day at work when essentially she was unseen until about 9 o'clock that morning? That's what I'd be asking.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Let's go to the town where this actually happened, right? So St. Croix Falls, Wisconsin. And one of the things that immediately jumps out to me is the likelihood that practically everyone there might own some type of firearm. Now, I'll tell you from my experience in law enforcement, I know that the .22 caliber rifle is the most common firearm. in America.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
So that wouldn't surprise me in the least. But what really piques my interest here are those snow boots and the prints. And if I'm digging deeper, I want to find out whether she owned a pair that matched the prints left behind at the crime scene. Those very same boots, that kind of detail can crack a case wide open.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
And that included Yvonne, a 45-year-old mother of four who had grown up in the same town and raised her family there.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
So Anna Sinka, put on your defense attorney hat. I know that's a stretch for you, but just for a second, how bad is this for her? I mean, if the boots are a match for the prince left at the scene, this feels like game over.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
But like you said, while this is decent circumstantial evidence, it is not definitive. After all, this is Wisconsin, and snow boots in the wintertime is as common as a hot cup of coffee in the morning.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Unsurprisingly, Mary Jo was sticking to her story.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
So one call in particular that Yvonne's daughter Julie had answered at the apartment now felt eerily relevant to the investigation.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Given what had happened to her mom, Julie could not help but think that she had mistakenly given crucial information about her mother's routine to the very person who killed her.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
The circumstantial evidence pointing at Mary Jo Lundsman as Yvonne's killer was certainly there. She had a motive. She had no alibi for the morning of the murder, and she owned a pair of boots that matched the prints at the scene. But investigators in St. Croix Falls, they wanted more. They wanted the murder weapon.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
In December of 1985, the single mother was living with her 20-year-old daughter, Julie, in a second-floor apartment located above a storefront in what passed for a downtown in tiny St. Croix Falls.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Which goes to show, once again, suspecting you know who killed someone and proving it in court are two different animals.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Investigators in St. Croix Falls continued to receive tips over the years, and plenty of suspicion continued to swirl around Mary Jo Lundsman.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Yvonne's children faced an agonizing reality, one that many survivors do when their loved one's murder goes cold. They had to move on.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
But here's the interesting thing about the evidence in Ivan's case. It wasn't going anywhere. And 38 years later, it was primed to come back in a very big way.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
But as we know, times change, and so do prosecutors. And with a changing of the guard at both the sheriff's office and the DA, the Menke murder was granted another look.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
This is a classic technique by investigators to hopefully get their person of interest to drop their guard. Something like, hey, we're here to just cross some T's and dot some I's, get your name cleared, and maybe you'd be willing to talk to us and sort of help us out here.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
And so at approximately 6.15 a.m., despite being out until nearly midnight at a birthday party the night before, Yvonne bundled up and began her morning routine.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
The sudden noises were so startling and so out of the ordinary for a cold, dark Thursday morning that Yvonne's daughter immediately sensed something terrible had happened to her mother. She had no idea just what.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
On July 2nd, 2024, Mary Jo Lunsman Bailey was convicted of first-degree murder, and which by 1985 sentencing guidelines meant she would automatically be eligible for parole in 20 years, when she would be 101 years old.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
The verdict brought long-awaited justice to Yvonne's family and countless Polk County investigators and prosecutors who had worked on the case, closing a nearly 40-year-old cold case.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
For nearly four decades, the murder of Ivan Menke left a family shattered, a community in limbo, and a case frozen in time. But justice has a way of catching up, sometimes quietly, sometimes when you least expect it. A pair of boots, a phone call, the smallest details dismissed in 1985 became the key to unlocking the truth in 2024.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
And at the heart of it all, jealousy, control, and a choice that turned deadly. Justice delayed? Yes. But in the end, not denied. Because the past never really stays buried.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Several minutes passed and Yvonne didn't return to the apartment. Fearing for her own safety and that of her mom, she picked up the phone to call for help.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
The call went out to all available officers, and within a matter of minutes, one was on his way. But with little information available, he really had no idea what to expect.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Yvonne Menke, a 45-year-old mother of four, on her way to work on a typical Thursday morning, had been fatally shot once in the neck and twice in the back of the head.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
The position of her body and the trajectory of the .22 caliber bullets that killed her also revealed crucial information about the crime and possibly her killer.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
And the close-range shots to the head made the shooter's intention clear. Yvonne's murder was premeditated and personal.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Footprints in the snow. I can tell you as a former cop in Florida, I can definitely say I was never that lucky. But I will say, as a former K-9 handler myself, starting the track with a warm body and a scene that just occurred is a great start.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Some survivors see a guilty verdict as a necessary step for closure, but for others, a long investigation or stalled prosecution can be painful roadblocks to moving forward with lives already forever changed by the loss of a loved one.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
The mold was an almost exact replica of the unique tread on the bottom of a size 5 snow boot. Find the boot, find the killer.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
When police asked her if she could think of anyone who might have potentially had a recent ongoing conflict with her mom, she could only think of one person.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
And besides Yvonne's daughter, Julie, he was also likely the last person to see Yvonne alive before she was gunned down in cold blood.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
When 45-year-old Yvonne Menke was murdered as she left her home, her family and friends in St. Croix Falls, Wisconsin, were left wondering why.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
Jack Owen was also who Yvonne was with the night before she was killed. And according to witnesses, she had attended a birthday party for him at his father's house in nearby Eureka.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
And anytime a homicide investigator hears love triangle, their ears are going to perk up because with infidelity comes a viper's nest of motives, including jealousy, obsession, and revenge.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
So he claimed that at 6.30 a.m. on the morning of December 12th, he was still asleep at his parents' house and didn't learn about Yvonne's death until he had visited the bank later that morning. But his reaction to the news of her murder did strike investigators as odd.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
But for many investigators and prosecutors, there's really no question at all. As long as there is enough evidence and enough hope, the pursuit of justice never stops.
Anatomy of Murder
Boots in the Snow (Yvonne Menke)
He also denied that Yvonne and Mary Jo even knew each other, let alone were romantic rivals. But Yvonne's family provided investigators with evidence to the contrary.