Scaachi Koul
Appearances
It's Been a Minute
Canada hates us, but it's not all Trump's fault.
On the Planet Money podcast, you've seen them, those labels that say made in China or made in France. But what do they really mean?
It's Been a Minute
Canada hates us, but it's not all Trump's fault.
We dig into the delightfully convoluted rules behind country of origin, what makes, say, a Chinese product Chinese, and how companies facing tariffs are getting creative. From Planet Money on NPR, wherever you get your podcasts.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Like, what do you mean? Yes. Get a job. Get a job. You're a taxpayer. What are you talking about? You're 20. Like in six years, you're going to get kicked off your parents insurance. What are you talking about? I just found it so weird and white and like restrictive and funny. And I didn't do it.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So I went and worked for the socials paper, barely met anybody who worked on it, which was exactly how I wanted to operate. Had a good time, really loved it and graduated.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Wow. I still don't have a nightstand. I'm using a windowsill.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I don't want to. Then I got to move things. I'm busy.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I was in like residency when I was in university. And then I had like a little shitty student apartment. I had a really bad futon that my parents gave me. And then I lived with a friend and she had a couch. And then I moved in with my ex and we had this awful blue sectional. I hated it.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
When I got divorced, I was like, oh, I get to pick all this furniture. And so I got a custom pink velvet couch that pulls out into a queen bed, which is pretty comfortable. And it's like a crushed, it's like a light pink, it's crushed velvet. And my cat really likes it.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
You can do it. It's actually about the same price as a regular couch now because couches are so expensive. Listen. You can get a shitty couch for $220. It will fall apart. It will hold you in a stress position if you try to sleep on it. It's the worst night of your life. But if you want one that is kind of comfortable, and I needed a second bed in case I had visitors-
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Correct. This is why I never see you at parties. We're both sitting in opposite ends of the room, and we're both like, I'm not getting up. I'll see you later.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
He's got little glasses on that I would love to break in half. He has family money, but he pretends he doesn't and says that they were comfortable. They're always saying they were comfortable. I don't know what that means. They're always calling themselves disruptors.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I think he's probably a dream. I'm sure everyone's really excited when he shows up. And I'm sure no one feels a sense of throbbing unsafety around him. Never, not once. Great.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Come on. Are you fucking for real? Oh, ladies, we are not going to win this war.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Oh, yeah. That felt like you just lit a cigarette. Yeah. That was the last time I felt like that. Like, yeah, I remember it. It's like, do you remember the last time you had hope? Absolutely. As I heat up the pipe, like just trying to get a grip on whatever is happening right now. Yes, I remember that.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I would set the couch on fire. I would damage the couch. I would do something monstrous to the couch. And I would make sure everybody saw that I did it. I would want everyone to know, like, we had a deal. And you reneged on the deal. And that's why I'm putting all these knives into this couch. If I can't have the couch, no one can. I don't see why anybody should have anything I don't have.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah, I'm real stressed out about all of this, honestly.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah, I think anybody who says they're not is a liar. Actually, those people are lying the most. People who are like, I really don't like gossip, liar. Those are the people who say gossip under the sheen of faux concern, and that's worse.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I mean, I would just have a confrontation. As you know, I love to fight. So I mean, I would just like have a fight. Like for me, from the beginning of this, the day that I asked Grant, can I have your couch when it's over? I would have a contract ratified. That's right. I guess I would have to find now his roommate, this person who works at the shittier publication, if I don't want to talk to him.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Like, I don't want like dramatic bad gossip. I don't like it when it's like people are gossiping about like an awful breakup or a terrible, like terrible stuff like that sucks. But like, ooh, mild work conflict at a place that I don't work. Yum, yum, delicious. snacky for snacky, I must eat. So yeah, I love hearing about things that don't really involve me. I don't believe all of it.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That would make me crazy. Oh, because he's living with this girl so he couldn't bring the couch there. But he wanted to keep the couch?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I don't believe all of it. And that's what makes you a good journalist. Thank you. But it is interesting, even when it's false, it is interesting to think about what falsities we invent about each other or about ourselves and why we do it. So I even think then it's still interesting.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I'm very concerned about what is in the couch. Like I'm worried, like I'm scared about like what is in it spiritually. And then also, yeah. And then also like what is in it literally.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Oh my God. This is a rookie move. This happens all the time on Scamfluencers where somebody will like just start telling people what they did. Don't tell people that you did a crime. I can talk about how I would set the couch on fire because I didn't set the couch on fire. If I have set a couch on fire, I'm not going to go on a podcast and be like, guess what I did.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Like, don't tell people when you did crime. Just do crime quietly.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah, because all of her friends are professional gossips.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
No, I think it's really dumb. Never tell a journalist anything. Except us. Oh, yeah. No, tell me things. I'm a boss. I'm safe. But don't tell anybody else.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I say, what couch? And then I pretend like I have no idea what he's talking about for the rest of our lives.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And the people on those shows often know that and what they choose to feed into and what they choose not to feed into. They're pretty savvy. So that's, I mean, no decision is a decision.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I'm so stressed about what is inside the couch. I love that you're like, it's full of bedbugs. Like, no, I don't even think it's bedbugs. I think there's like, he puts something in the pillow. And I don't, I don't know why. I'm just, there's something amiss.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Which is a very ominous message to send. I gotta say it's great. Very, very spooky power move. I like it. I'm going to start doing it. How would you respond? I would say, who is this? How'd you get this number? Over and over again. Even when they tell me who they are.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Oh, that's right. Excellent. Everybody in this story is nuts. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
You know, I was thinking this the other day that when I started like my divorce process and when I was starting the separation, I was really mad and offended that people weren't telling me that I was the subject of more gossip. Like I would call my friends and be like, hey. Has anybody asked what's going on? Yeah. I deleted a lot of photos on Instagram. I'm posting a mentally ill person.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I would just start screaming. Like, I would, like, full-throated, like, screaming, like, there's a man in my house! Like that. And just see what people do. Just cause chaos. Yeah. And then while everyone's panicking, that's when I start the fire on the couch. Set the couch on fire. It's my plan for kind of everything. Yeah, clearly. I'm getting a theme. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I just think most things can be solved by cleansing fire. That's all.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And he thinks the little patterned love seat is the couch? Why would he assume that one?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
He needs to get out of the apartment. Asap. This is so stressful.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I love them. Honestly, if you can steal something like that from someone and get away with it, I don't think you're the criminal. And I think leaving a couch at your friend's parents' house is crazy. For months. Too many degrees of separation. Yeah. Outrageous. No, I hate Kobe so much.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
No jury would prosecute. Clean hit. Clean hit. Yeah. I'm sorry. She's the president.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Right. And see, this is why I said burn it. Sachi, that's the end of our story. How do you feel? Horrified. I like, I'm like, that makes me feel itchy. Like, I don't like, I feel like he came to my apartment. I was actually, honestly, the whole time you were telling me that, I was like, is he going to pee on the couch? I was so afraid of him peeing on the couch.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Anytime there's like a story about a man in furniture, I'm like, what is he going to do? Is he going to pee on it? So I'm relieved in that way. This is really impressive. To steal a couch. And get away with it. That should be the next Oceans movie. So true.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And I'm still a little offended about that, frankly. So I love gossip. I think there's lots of gradations of it and layers of it. I think it's all good and I like it and I want gossip. And... I also, I want this on the record that for this show, you guys do a pre-interview and you asked me to bring a piece of gossip, which I did. And it was deemed too hot to air. And I would like to discuss that.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I just want to be told that I have some credit for somehow bringing a morsel too hot to air by the gossip show. I have to talk to God.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
It was impossible. I was like, there's no way. I told you guys, and then as I hung up, laughed for 100 years. I was like, there's no way they're going to be able to air that. There's no way to anonymize it. Everybody would know immediately. And by the way, when I say everyone would know, I mean, conservatively 500 people would immediately know who this one person was.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And I loved the thought of one of you having a phone call with a lawyer being like, we got a piece of gossip. On the note of gossip, one of my private joys is knowing that I have said something that gets back to a lawyer who then like the heavy sigh. Every time a lawyer sighs because of something I've said, my ass gets a little bit fatter. Like it's, And I feel it.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Like I knew I was like, oh, they call the lawyer. I look thick.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Six lawyers at AT&T are currently screaming my name into the sky. Not AT&T. I just picked a telecommunications company I don't work for.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a story about my own flagellation, certainly. Yeah. Okay. So when you write a book, they give you an advanced version of it. I have one. It's just like a little loose paperback that they give you so that you can give it to people, whatever else. So-
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I received one from my publisher and I went to my office to go pick it up because that's where I had it sent for safekeeping. And I was like walking through Brooklyn and having like a really nice day and looking at it and being like, wow, I did it. How exciting. And then I got on the train and I'm still looking at the book. I'm by myself. I'm living in peace, right? And I have it open.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I'm like looking at a random page and I have it open and I just hear, Sachi? And I like slowly lower the book with my name on it as if like I can't read like a billboard. The book could have been a mask of my own face holding it up. And it's you. Yeah. And I haven't seen you in months. Yeah. And you're like, hey, are you reading your own book on the subway?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And I had to be like, yeah, but not like that. I was just checking that it was my book. I was just checking that it's real. What if they put, like, the different book in the same cover? Sometimes that happens, you know? Like, I don't know when that would happen. Like, it was... Like a bottom two experience. And then I had to, and then we had to go to different places.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So I talked to you for a few seconds and then you got off the train to go to, you were going to the gym, I think. I was, yeah. And I had to sit on the fucking train. And there were people, there were other people who watched this interaction and then like looked at me and they were like, oh, you wrote a book, huh? And I'm like, yeah, it's this one that I was reading on the subway.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
It's out in March that I'm holding right now.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like and I like it was funny because for some reason earlier in the day, I was thinking about how I never run into anybody. Despite the fact that like.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
we live in the same neighborhood and there's a lot of people I know who live around here and I just never see anybody and not that I'm willing this into but clearly I did and so I was thinking of it and then there you fucking are I have to do the face off operation and change my name and go into witness protection it was so embarrassing
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And then when I got my physical copy, I went to go pick that up and I was on the train. I was like, I'm not fucking taking this goddamn book out. You couldn't pay me. I'm going to read it in the dark alone as God intended.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I'm worried it's not that. I'm worried it's something embarrassing. Like my pants are going to fall off and then you're going to be there. Like it's not, I don't know that it's the book. I'm worried that it's like I'm going to do something self-effaced Like simultaneously so narcissistic and like belittling at the same time. So it made me feel so small and yet so big.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah, you're more generous than me. And I will tell you this. If I ever catch you on the subway reading your own book, I would have not. You were nice enough to say my name. So I looked up. I would have taken a thousand photos of it. And I wouldn't have said anything to you. I would have left and just posted them, tagged you, and been like, looks like someone learned how to read.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I would be way meaner about it. That's what was making me so crazy. I was like, this is simultaneously so embarrassing and a huge missed opportunity for her. She's too nice. She's never going to do it. But a real monster like myself would have done something with this. The thing is, you did do it. You posted about it on Instagram later. Oh, yeah. You outed yourself.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah, because I remember thinking, I was like, this is a total missed opportunity. If only an asshole ran into me like this, they could really make a meal out of it. And instead it was like you and you were being so genteel. You're like, oh, are you going to the gym? I'm like, I have to go figure out a plan. I have to get my estate in order because I have to die.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And I'm like, guillotine. And you're like, I want to die. I have to die. It's time to die. Yeah. We were having very different days.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Why are you saying this like you're talking about like pioneers in their covered wagons? Like they crossed the Oregon Trail. They ate the whole buffalo tip to tail. It's almost 20 years ago, babe. Okay, that hurts my feelings, but go on.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Oh God, this was a terrifying heady time of me like just turning 18 and being in like early university. I had just moved to Toronto. I thought I knew everything. I had cut all my hair off into this fuck ass bob. It looked so bad. I loved it. And I was having a time in my life.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
The funny thing about that is it's like, well, which one? Exactly. That could be anybody.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That could be anybody, anywhere, anytime. Okay.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I was an editor for the socialist newspaper.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
They have like a personal essay and like culture section. And I was one of the editors and I would write for it. But I didn't do any of the other ones because I thought all those guys were weird. They were so weird and so like proprietary over the student paper. And you're like, we're 20 and you are running around trying to write a story about like the muffin prices in the canteen.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
Wow. So we're talking a lot about family obligation. And I was really shocked when Josh agrees to go into the compound after Max, even after he learns about what the circumstances are. Why does Josh go in?
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
It's so good to be with you today. I'm so glad to be here. Okay, so we're just going to start with the obvious. How did you find this story?
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
It just seems like everything is set up to be the perfect circumstance for Dev to take advantage of these people. Like, he can use Charlie's brother and then her brothers as leverage to keep Charlie doing what he wants. It's so evil. Yeah, 100%.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
There are a lot of horrific endings in this story, including about Doge. But one of the scariest ones is the revelation that Charlie's identity is still being used by other recruiters. I need to know how Charlie is doing now.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
From Wondery, this is a special episode of Scam Factory. I'm Sachi Cole, one of the hosts of another Wondery show, Scamfluencers.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
Executive producers are Julia Lowry-Henderson, George Lavender, Marsha Louis, and Jen Sargent for Wondery.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
Well, we have a lot of questions about Charlie. But before we get into it, I'm curious why you wanted to explore the scammer side of these calls. I think they're usually really dominated by stories around like how consumers are impacted and what it means and what happens to us. But no one's always thinking about like who's doing this and why. I think that's really true.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
I would imagine verifying these stories was probably really hard because people get nervous or really anxious about sharing information. But you're also talking about a story that's about scams, people who scam and people who are lying. So how do you determine who to trust, what to trust, and how do you know where to put your faith and what is like undeniably true in this story? Yeah.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
Which is actually pretty similar to the charm offensive that scammers within the Scam Factory use to lure in their victims.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
Right. And we've covered a lot of stories of scammers on our show, but I didn't expect a scam at this scale.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
Yeah, this series has really changed my perspective on these scammers, which is why we're both so excited to have a conversation with Denise Chan, the reporter and host of Scam Factory, to talk about how she found this crazy story, what else she learned reporting on these sophisticated scams, and what these characters have been doing since leaving the Scam Factory. Scam Factory Hi, Denise.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
OK, so at the center of the story is Charlie. And on Scamfluencers, we cover people who are often just straight up awful. But we do have a lot of stories where we can kind of sympathize with the person becoming a scammer, which I think is where Charlie lands. She's a victim. She got scammed. Her brother is in danger. She keeps digging the hole she's in deeper and deeper.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
But at the end of the day, she commits real crimes in order to get what she wants. So I'm curious how you navigated having such a complicated main character. Did your understanding of Charlie change from the first meeting over the course of reporting the story? I feel like your feelings must have changed as you were working on this.
Scam Factory
Factory Tour | 7
So the way that Charlie eventually finds herself out of this trap is through a man named Colonel. And he starts off skeptical of her involvement with the syndicate, but eventually he changes his mind. So what do you think it was about Charlie that made him feel like he could actually trust her?
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
On Scam Factory, we uncover the people who bend the rules, the ones who break them entirely. But sometimes, the biggest deception comes from the very person enforcing the rules. Billy Mitchell wasn't just any gamer. He was a legend, the first person to achieve a perfect score in Pac-Man.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
Well, Sarah, today's story is about what lengths people will go to in order to survive and who they're willing to sell out in order to thrive. That's right. It's time for another Hashtag Girlboss. It's late May 2020, and Priscilla Barbosa is at a park in Los Angeles. She's wearing a short white sundress and a flower crown and standing under a tree of purple blooms.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
Priscilla is in her mid-30s and barely five feet tall. She's Brazilian with long brown hair and lots of curves. And right now, she's gazing up into the eyes of a man named Mario Medrano. A reverend stands between them in a mask. It is the height of the pandemic, after all. And he's here to officiate their wedding. It's an intimate ceremony.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
Priscilla's family is back in Brazil, so she has only one friend with her. And on the groom's side is his girlfriend.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
Well, Sarah, this is not a polycule situation. This whole wedding is actually a sham. Priscilla and Mario actually just met each other. And if all goes well, they'll never have to see each other again after today. Priscilla is in this for a green card, and Mario is in it for $10,000. Among the few guests at the park is a staffer from the sham wedding agency that put Priscilla and Mario together.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
They take photos of the fake couple to document the day. Priscilla FaceTimes her family back home, who seem to go along with the whole charade. And then she heads down to the beach where she snaps a photo and posts it to Instagram. But online, she fails to mention that she's just gotten married. Sarah, can you describe the post for us?
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
the reigning Donkey Kong champion, and a self-appointed guardian of integrity in the video game world, helping to expose players who faked their high scores. But when the documentary King of Kong, A Fistful of Quarters came out, cracks started to form in his carefully built image. The film showed a different side of Mitchell, one that used intimidation and manipulation to maintain his reign.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
And ever since she moved to the States two years ago, she's been posting things like this on Instagram. Glamorous, mysterious images with vaguely inspirational captions that make her life seem perfect, especially to her family and friends back in Brazil. But like so much on social media, the reality is something else entirely. Because just like her marriage, Priscilla's work isn't what it seems.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
She's portraying herself as a successful businesswoman. And she is. But her empire has been built on the backs of undocumented immigrants illegally driving for rideshare companies. She's managed to outsmart some of the biggest companies in the U.S. and the government. And it's given her and her community of undocumented employees a really good life.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
But Priscilla's starting to cross over from helping others to just helping herself. And soon, her picture-perfect American story will meet cold, hard reality. From Wondery, I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagee. And this is Scamfluencers. Priscilla Barbosa began scamming when she came to the U.S., but it wasn't out of greed. It was out of survival.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
Priscilla figured out how to game popular apps like Lyft, Uber, and DoorDash. And then she set out to share the wealth, earning a reputation in Boston's Brazilian community as a modern-day Robin Hood. But as her business grew, Priscilla bought into her own hype and crossed over from sympathetic scammer to ruthless capitalist. This is Priscilla Barbosa, the rideshare Robin Hood.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
Listen to scamfluencers early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
And when accusations surfaced that some of his own Donkey Kong scores were achieved using edited footage, the gaming world turned on its king. Was Billy Mitchell a true champion? Or was he playing a different kind of game? I'm about to play a clip from Scamfluencers. Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
Like the people in Scam Factory, today's scammer also moved to a new country for the promise of a better life, but she actually worked her way up to running an illegal rideshare empire. She was giving immigrants like her a chance to make a living, but it wasn't without risk, both for her workers and for their customers.
Scam Factory
What To Listen To Next: Scamfluencers
We sometimes have scammers on this show who we empathize with because at least at the beginning, their hearts are in the right place.