Sabina Nawaz
Appearances
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
I'm doing great, especially with that introduction, Mick. Thank you so much.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Ja, genau. Und weißt du, das ist das meiste, was ich Leuten anbiete, ist das erste Mal in der Morgen-E-Mail. Weil, sagen wir mal, es gibt eine Erwartung, dass du um neun Uhr, vielleicht sogar um acht Uhr verantwortlich sein musst. Aber wer hat deinen Manager trainiert, um eine Antwort von dir um 5 Uhr zu bekommen?
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Well, one of those was about no such thing as a purely good or purely bad boss. They reside in all of us. Another one is that authenticity is not singular, it's plural. So we, often people will say, well, you're going to coach me, but, you know, I got to be me. I've got to, or an executive who blows up and then says, well, but that's me. You don't want me to be authentic.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Authenticity, when people use it for those reasons, is often an excuse for not wanting to grow or change. Because if you think about it, As Herminia Ibarra says, that if we were truly authentic to ourselves, we would still be our authentic five year old selves getting down on the floor and having a knock down, drag out, hissy fit every time we didn't get the candy. So we have changed a lot.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
What is authenticity? How I'm showing up with you on this podcast is not how I would show up with my 19 year old son. And how I show up with my 19 year old son is not how I would show up with my girlfriends. And how I show up with my girlfriends is very different from what I do or say with the CEOs I coach. So authenticity is dependent on the role you are performing.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
And there are certain obligations to that role. I think that what people truly want to mean when they say authenticity is values. What do I value? What's negotiable? What's non-negotiable? But even with values, they can be situational. For example, for me, when I value being outspoken and speaking up for things.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
But if I'm in a situation where my kids are in danger, I'm not going to stop and speak up. I'm going to run with my kids. Because my value of providing safety to my kids is higher. It subsumes. The value of the desire to speak up. It's fine for people to call me a coward or whatever they want. But I care about the safety of my kids way more than speaking up. So authenticity is rarely singular.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
We have multiple authentic selves.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
I love the because instead of the why. It also makes me think of that five whys exercise to get to that deeper, deeper understanding of things. For me, it has something to... Look, I'm an engineer by training and so I always go back to pragmatic roots and it has something to do with time and impact. And that...
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
In a leadership position, you have an outsized impact on other people, their satisfaction, their work-life balance, their paycheck, what they're doing and how they're doing it. And therefore, the impact it has on the customers, the quality of the product. Is it created with love or built through fear?
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
And so it's that because is to ignite acts of leadership in everybody so that the impact they have on others is ist ein zusätzlicher positiver Effekt.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Mick, this is why we're having, we both do the work we do. Because I'm having this moment because mine is very close to what you're saying. And the habit is to create a habit to shut up. And as in not take up all the oxygen in the room. Not be the first one to speak. What if you were the third, fourth or fifth person to speak instead of the first?
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
To take notes with your own brilliant ideas and see if someone else suggests it first and only bring out the ones that haven't been suggested by others. So it's really to shut up more and sense more as a result. And that's about being present. So we are completely in sync on that, Mick.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Nun, es gibt so viele Beispiele dafür. Und die meisten passieren, wenn ich mir eigentlich ganz sicher bin und dann merke, dass ich nichts weiß. Ich weiß, dass ich komplett falsch bin. Also es ist ein großer Schlag in die Ego-Face und es ist großartig. Es schlägt es von Zeit zu Zeit auf. One of those was when I discovered that I was a lousy manager at Microsoft. Because that's not how I started.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
One of the biggest things you need to know is that being promoted is often the riskiest time in your career when you're promoted to a management position. This is because the strengths that have brought you to this point are going to be viewed very differently and much less charitably by the next that are craning up to look at you. I'll give you a couple of examples.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Let's say that you're actually, Mick, what are a couple of your strengths?
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Great. Now, I'm sure this will not be the case with your team because you know them and they know you for a long time. But if you were newly in a position and you're always communicating the why, some people on that team could then go, oh, this guy is just talking all about the lofty why and not about the how. How are we going to get all this done? Yeah.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Oder, wow, er hat uns gesagt, dass wir dieses Jahr Probleme haben, und er hat uns nicht gesagt, wie wir davon ausgehen werden. Werden wir verabschiedet werden? Also, Geschichten können darin geformt werden, ohne dich zu verändern. Und 95 Prozent der Zeit solltest du transparent sein. Du solltest genau das tun, was du tust.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Aber 5 Prozent der Zeit, für jemanden, der auf deinem jeden Augenbrauch abhängig ist, wird es anders landen. So do you know how it's going to land and what are you going to do to nuance that, to adjust that, to be more transparent about the why behind your why, so to speak.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
When I first started, the coolest thing about working for Microsoft was the free drinks.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Free Coke, Pepsi, Sprite, Juice, whatever kind of non-alcoholic drink, you name it.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
And a 22-year-old.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Es ist eine Stadt mit dem Hiken nahe. Weil der ältere liebt Städte und öffentlichen Transit. Und das ist, was sein Job ist. Und wir lieben es alle, draußen zu sein und zu hiken. Okay, all right.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Oh, it's my chickpea dish. I have this, it's just a recipe that I came up with. It was influenced by one of my roommates in college. And it's got onions and cumin and turmeric and tomatoes and sugar. Und Salz. Hey, Zucker und Salz. Was könnte falsch sein, wenn du diese beiden Dinge kombinierst? Ich liebe das Gericht. Es hat Sauerkraut. Und jeder rät sich darüber.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
In Wahrheit haben viele meiner Freunde das jetzt als Stapel in ihren Häusern.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Hohe Energie, Passion und leidenschaftlich.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Ja, rente eine Stimme, rente eine Stimme, die nicht deiner ist. And if you check out my TEDx talk on YouTube, that's the whole story is about that. How do you tune into positive voices? So when your own voice is taking rent-free occupation inside your head that says, you're going to fail. I don't know why they're asking you to do things. This is not going to be good enough.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
It's going to be a disaster. Go talk to somebody else. And who has perhaps at that moment more faith in you than you have in yourself.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
I have a keynote in there.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
It is one of my keynotes.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
The book is called You're the Boss. And that's why it's important for everybody. It's become the manager you want to be and others need. But really, every single one of the 16 tools in here is about making you the boss of your life. Whether you're in a management position or not, how do you deal with pressure?
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Oft werden Leute sagen, du wirst mich coachen, aber ich muss mich sein. Oder ein Geschäftsführer, der sich aufbläst und dann sagt, aber das bin ich. Du willst nicht, dass ich authentisch bin. Authentizität, wenn Leute es für diese Gründe nutzen, ist oft eine Entschuldigung, nicht zu wollen, zu wachsen oder zu verändern.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
How do you navigate life in a way where you have a sense of agency, no matter what's coming at you? And gosh, we have a lot coming at us. They can find this book anywhere books are sold. You can also, if you don't buy the book, but I give away resources based on the book all the time on my sub stack called Pressure Free and Pressure Proof. Und Sie können mich auf Substack folgen.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Sie können auch auf meinem Webseite, sabinanawaz.com, signen.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Das Beste, was man tun kann, ist, mich auf LinkedIn zu folgen. Aber ich bin auch auf allen anderen Plattformen, Instagram, Blue Sky, etc.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
The first day back from parental leave, I'm putting on lipstick for the first time. And my assistant Lori calls frantic, where are you? Steve expects you in 30 minutes. She's reading me the memo I'm supposed to discuss with Steve Ballmer, the CEO of the company, as I hit warp speed on my way to work. And that set the pace and tone.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Thank you, Mick. It's an honor likewise back at you.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
with inbox overflowing, demands from high level executives, infant at home, no sleep, no peace, no patience. We've all been there from time to time. And for me, I morphed from caring and nurturing as a boss to snippy and short. I barked out orders. I thought I was being efficient when I would leave all 10 fingers on the keyboard and look over my shoulder and indicate to people What is it?
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
I'm really busy. You're less important than me. Spit it out and get away. And the worst part of me thinking I was efficient, me thinking I was killing it, when actually I was crushing everybody else until a peer of mine told me that somebody was crying in their office because of my behavior.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
So that was a moment of deep learning and transformation to realize, as I went to apologize to this person and his eyes brimmed up, that this is what I want. I want to treat people with humanity. Und das ist der Grund, warum ich dieses Buch geschrieben habe, weil ich in den Schuhen von Menschen unter enormen Mengen von Druck gestanden bin. Ich weiß, wie das ist.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Und wir müssen nicht von dem Boss aus der Hölle werden. Schau, niemand will ein schlechtes Boss sein. Es ist nur so, dass wir, wenn Druck unabhängig ist, es ist nicht Macht, sondern Druck, das dann unsere Verhältnisse korruptiert und in so einer Weise zeigt, dass es einen schrecklichen Effekt auf uns und alle Menschen um uns bringt.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Well, I have to first pick some, nitpick some things first. So yes, this notion of greatness, this sort of celebrity culture, putting someone on a pedestal and thinking they're perfect. No wonder we cannot think of anybody other than dead people, because we're expecting absolute perfection. So there's that piece of great.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
When I think about good and bad bosses, I actually don't think there is a pure good boss or pure bad boss. They reside all within the same person. Just like me, where I was great and good in one circumstance and I didn't change, but my circumstances changed. And then I was horrible as a boss. So they reside all inside of us.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
And so then your question about what are the traits of good leadership, of the good side, is are people who can, you know, I talk about the dual forces of pressure and power. That power doesn't corrupt, pressure corrupts. So pressure is this sort of silent corrupter. And then power colludes with it and becomes the great divider.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
When nobody is going to tell you across that divide, look up to you and say, especially if you're acting snippy and short-tempered, hey boss, you're being a jerk. Who in their right mind is going to tell you that? So then you keep doing these behaviors until it's too late. So for me, the traits would be those who can They use power and pressure for good.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
That is, they figure out ways to reduce that power gap. And a large part of that is through communication. We can go into details there. Oder sie gestalten ihre eigenen Drucken, damit sie Druck für das Gute nutzen. Druck muss dich nicht definieren, es kann dich refinieren, wie Druck Däumchen baut. Es geht also darum, das aus dieser Perspektive zu schauen.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Es gibt also mehrere Druck-Pitfalle und was man in solchen Situationen tun kann.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Es ist der längste Teil meines Buches, wenn das eine Beweise dafür ist, wie wichtig es ist. Es ist sicherlich unglaublich wichtig. Und durch Kommunikation meine ich so viele verschiedene Dinge. Zuerst einmal, als Manager hat die Kraft einen zerstörten, gebrochenen Volumen-Knopf-Effekt. Alles, was du von oben nach oben sagst, klingt lauter, teurer und mehr persönlich direkt an die Person.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Also, wenn ein Boss witzig ist, weil sie einen Blister auf ihrem Pinkeltoe hat, You're thinking, oh, there goes my bonus or there goes my job. I hope I had said goodbye to my office plants. So there is this volume knob effect of communication. And how do you make sure that you're not amplifying things beyond the natural amplification that's going to happen because you're in a position of power?
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
So I often tell people, arrange your face before you go into a meeting. If your resting face is really severe like mine is, make sure that you're mindful of that. Make sure that your body language and your face and your facial expressions are in fidelity with the gravitas or the lightness of the message you're communicating. So that's just one example of communication.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Eines ist, sich davon bewusst zu sein. Ich weiß, dass ich eine sehr schwere Rettungsphase habe und ich versuche, davon bewusst zu sein. In Wahrheit habe ich einen Mikro-Habit und wir können darüber sprechen, was das in einem Moment ist. Aber eines der Mikro-Habiten, die ich vertreibe, ist, habe ich mir bewusst einen Lächeln auf den Gesicht gesetzt, als ich in einer Rettungsphase war?
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Nun, es geht nicht nur darum, zu lachen und zu versuchten, zu lachen. But also another thing you can do is use numbers. What I mean by that is, let's say you're really excited by something, but people are not quite believing it because your face is giving off a different message unintentionally. You might say, hey, on a scale of 1 to 10, this is a 12. You all have just killed it.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
You've done a phenomenal job. So now they know calibration-wise where they stand. And similarly, when something is serious... Ich liebe das.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Well, luckily, most of them have come to embrace that over the years. You know, I've been doing this for over 25 years now and 20 years ago, it would be so not okay to talk about anything to do with emotions, let alone deeper vulnerable stuff. Now, many people show up with vulnerable stories, with actually some skill at storytelling and being as grounded and rooted in
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
all of themselves, not just the shiny stuff that's going to show up on Instagram. For those who don't. And of course, everybody has stuff that they are wondering about. Hey, is that going to be too much about me? Are people going to judge me? Is it going to expose me to more criticism? The answer is yes. People are always judging you.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
And for every one person who judges you harshly, if you do it right, there'll be a thousand who judge you Well, so judgment can come in both forms. And I had this one person I was working with who said and this is one of the myths in my book, the myth being that business isn't personal. It is very personal. And someone was saying. Well, you know, I've got things are going to hell in a handbasket.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
We don't know if we'll make it through this year. We have an existential crisis. Und ich muss ein Gesicht aufnehmen, ich muss ihnen sagen, dass alles gut ist, wir werden etwas stärker aussehen, wir werden resilient sein. Und ich sagte, hast du jemals das Wort toxische Positivität gehört? Und, und, du weißt, Menschen sind nicht dumm, sie verstehen, was los ist.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Und wenn du das sagst, ist das einzige, was du tust, ist, dass du derjenige bist, der verbunden ist und nicht weiß, was in der Realität passiert ist. And when you try to reassure people a little too much, you start to worry them. Like, oh, I wasn't afraid before, but maybe I should be afraid now. Why are they trying so hard to reassure me?
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
So instead, he showed up at a meeting and he said, I don't have answers. That's how he started. He said, I don't have answers. And I'm scared. My whole life, I have been the A student who's gotten The grades, the gold stars, the promotions, the bonuses and this position for knowing the answers, for being the smartest kid in the room.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
And now it would be foolish for me to say I have the answers because nobody does. The only way out of this is through a collective intelligence and for us to join forces so we can collaborate on finding the answers. I may come without answers, but not without hope. Now that vulnerability, and he choked up as he was saying, I don't have answers.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
That vulnerability won him followers for life, won him loyalists for life. Because that's the real deal.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Wenn du in einer Managementsituation bist und je höher du in diese Managementsituationen gehst, wie ich sicherlich mit deinen Klienten sehe, desto mehr Druck haben sie. Und je mehr Druck wir haben, desto mehr vergessen wir eigentlich über die Mindset, wir vergessen über alles. Wir versuchen nur zu hinkern und zu überleben. Und das ist in sich eine Mindset. Es ist eine Mindset von Schwierigkeit.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
In der Face of Pressure, in der Face of Fear, gehen wir, es ist nicht genug. It's what led to all that toilet paper hoarding at the beginning of the pandemic.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
When there really wasn't a shortage of toilet paper. What was that? That was a mindset. So the mindset of abundance as opposed to scarcity, that I am enough, that we will have answers. I just have to allow some space for those answers to emerge and we'll get through it. That kind of mindset. Another mindset that is pervasive is is this mindset of busy and almost a badge of honor.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
Entry into a club. If you're not busy, then you're yesterday's news. You're used goods. You're not needed. I'm with the movers and shakers and look how busy I am. And that busy mindset also prevents us from looking out onto the horizon, from really focusing on the things that are most important.
Mick Unplugged
Sabina Nawaz: Why Pressure, Not Power, Shapes Effective Leadership
We get caught up in being what someone jokingly called CEO, chief email officer, as opposed to really doing the work that's most important to do.