Ryan McGee

They've overhauled the cars significantly. They're not spec cars, but they're – yeah, they are. The cars are almost identical. But that's good for racing. It's great. No, it's great. And I would argue the same thing about NASCAR, which is y'all only stock cars. Now you've really got stock cars as a result.

They've overhauled the cars significantly. They're not spec cars, but they're – yeah, they are. The cars are almost identical. But that's good for racing. It's great. No, it's great. And I would argue the same thing about NASCAR, which is y'all only stock cars. Now you've really got stock cars as a result.

It's kind of like that, right? Kind of like that. And also, and I think this is true in NASCAR too, in IndyCar, the talent level is through the roof. You know, you have all these guys that were on the Formula One track. that jumped to IndyCar because there's money in it now, and there's fame in it now, and now you can go from IndyCar to Formula One if you still want to.

It's kind of like that, right? Kind of like that. And also, and I think this is true in NASCAR too, in IndyCar, the talent level is through the roof. You know, you have all these guys that were on the Formula One track. that jumped to IndyCar because there's money in it now, and there's fame in it now, and now you can go from IndyCar to Formula One if you still want to.

But the cars are, particularly in Indianapolis, where they're qualifying at averaging 230 miles an hour, which are the speeds that you and I used to see back in the day. But IndyCar ripped itself in half. I lived through all that and covered all that in the late 90s. I say this all the time.

But the cars are, particularly in Indianapolis, where they're qualifying at averaging 230 miles an hour, which are the speeds that you and I used to see back in the day. But IndyCar ripped itself in half. I lived through all that and covered all that in the late 90s. I say this all the time.

in terms of collegiate athletics, which is NASCAR made a lot of really bad decisions in the mid-2000s and ran a lot of people off. IndyCar ripped itself in half. I mean, killed the goose looking for golden eggs. And I always throw those out as cautionary tales.

in terms of collegiate athletics, which is NASCAR made a lot of really bad decisions in the mid-2000s and ran a lot of people off. IndyCar ripped itself in half. I mean, killed the goose looking for golden eggs. And I always throw those out as cautionary tales.

I'm good, yeah. I'm petty enough that I hope that all of the professors that I had who said I could never – and the people I interviewed with for jobs who said I could never be on air because of the way I sounded. I'm petty enough to hope that they – Yeah, screw those people.

I'm good, yeah. I'm petty enough that I hope that all of the professors that I had who said I could never – and the people I interviewed with for jobs who said I could never be on air because of the way I sounded. I'm petty enough to hope that they – Yeah, screw those people.

Yeah, and I throw these things out as cautionary tales to our friends in collegiate athletics because – All of these things are done with the assumption of your core audience is just going to – we can't do anything to run them off. Yeah. Yeah, you can.

Yeah, and I throw these things out as cautionary tales to our friends in collegiate athletics because – All of these things are done with the assumption of your core audience is just going to – we can't do anything to run them off. Yeah. Yeah, you can.

You totally can. Or they age out. And so the question isn't, you know, what are you doing to make the gray-headed guys and the colored Blazers mad? The question is, what are you doing – to make the 20 year olds decide they want me to do something else.

You totally can. Or they age out. And so the question isn't, you know, what are you doing to make the gray-headed guys and the colored Blazers mad? The question is, what are you doing – to make the 20 year olds decide they want me to do something else.

And so it's, it's a really, I use it. I wrote when Oklahoma, Texas, when the sec, I wrote that, or no, it was during the, is when USC and UCLA went to the big time. I wrote that column, like be careful because you think, uh, They'll just stick around no matter what. But the reality is if it looks too far away from what they grew up loving, then they will 100% go find something else to do.

And so it's, it's a really, I use it. I wrote when Oklahoma, Texas, when the sec, I wrote that, or no, it was during the, is when USC and UCLA went to the big time. I wrote that column, like be careful because you think, uh, They'll just stick around no matter what. But the reality is if it looks too far away from what they grew up loving, then they will 100% go find something else to do.

Yeah, what I worry about, I think that while everyone is so distracted by NIL and all that stuff, transfer portal and all that, I worry more about the calendar.

Yeah, what I worry about, I think that while everyone is so distracted by NIL and all that stuff, transfer portal and all that, I worry more about the calendar.

Because the season's getting too long. Okay. You know, the reality is that the ratings were up until they got to the national championship game with two of the biggest brands in the history of the sport, you know, in the game. And, you know, basically had two weeks between the semifinals and that.

Because the season's getting too long. Okay. You know, the reality is that the ratings were up until they got to the national championship game with two of the biggest brands in the history of the sport, you know, in the game. And, you know, basically had two weeks between the semifinals and that.

And at this point, college football had been going on, if you go back to week zero, it's just the third weekend in August. So – you know, the reason that spring football games were a big deal is the same reason that the NFL draft became such a big deal, which is it's all you had, right? You had nothing from January 1st until Labor Day. And so you're talking about

And at this point, college football had been going on, if you go back to week zero, it's just the third weekend in August. So – you know, the reason that spring football games were a big deal is the same reason that the NFL draft became such a big deal, which is it's all you had, right? You had nothing from January 1st until Labor Day. And so you're talking about

your core audience when you start messing with the rhythms of their calendar. And now you're back in the championship game up into the middle of the NFL playoffs.

your core audience when you start messing with the rhythms of their calendar. And now you're back in the championship game up into the middle of the NFL playoffs.

And you think that messing with January 1st, which they've been doing for years now, was not going to be that big of a deal, and people are kind of irritated with it. So those are the things that once you get to Saturdays in the fall, last season was, I thought, maybe the 2007 was the most entertaining regular season we've had in my lifetime of college football.

And you think that messing with January 1st, which they've been doing for years now, was not going to be that big of a deal, and people are kind of irritated with it. So those are the things that once you get to Saturdays in the fall, last season was, I thought, maybe the 2007 was the most entertaining regular season we've had in my lifetime of college football.

um but but but but but you know like any great movie if it goes on too long goes on too long that's a great that's a great yeah that's the part of it that i that i'm and some of that was selfish honestly when i when i got to vacation where i was like yeah man we would be done right now yeah um and and understanding that you know you and i both work for the company that that um uh you know that benefits from all this and i'm all for it but

um but but but but but you know like any great movie if it goes on too long goes on too long that's a great that's a great yeah that's the part of it that i that i'm and some of that was selfish honestly when i when i got to vacation where i was like yeah man we would be done right now yeah um and and understanding that you know you and i both work for the company that that um uh you know that benefits from all this and i'm all for it but

it's going to take a minute for people to get used to it. And I just think you need to be careful when you start playing a championship game on the 22nd and 23rd and 24th of January. It's just getting long. That's a really good point. You've got to leave them hungry, right? And when the season is ending, while some teams are starting spring practice, There's an adjustment period there.

it's going to take a minute for people to get used to it. And I just think you need to be careful when you start playing a championship game on the 22nd and 23rd and 24th of January. It's just getting long. That's a really good point. You've got to leave them hungry, right? And when the season is ending, while some teams are starting spring practice, There's an adjustment period there.

We'll see if everybody adjusts or not.

We'll see if everybody adjusts or not.

Yeah. I mean, listen, I was in Nashville a month ago and spent some time with Diego Pavia. I mean, that's it. I mean, you know, I write the bottom 10 for ESPN.com. I have written about New Mexico State football for 10 years, right?

Yeah. I mean, listen, I was in Nashville a month ago and spent some time with Diego Pavia. I mean, that's it. I mean, you know, I write the bottom 10 for ESPN.com. I have written about New Mexico State football for 10 years, right?

And I knew how good Diego was at New Mexico State. And now he's the mayor of Nashville. Yeah, he is.

And I knew how good Diego was at New Mexico State. And now he's the mayor of Nashville. Yeah, he is.

But he's been given an opportunity to do something. And it's interesting because, you know, I cover college baseball, too. And obviously, we're in the middle of the baseball postseason now. We're starting to crank it up. And... I remember going down to LSU when they put together their first real giant NIL class, the one that won the College World Series that year.

But he's been given an opportunity to do something. And it's interesting because, you know, I cover college baseball, too. And obviously, we're in the middle of the baseball postseason now. We're starting to crank it up. And... I remember going down to LSU when they put together their first real giant NIL class, the one that won the College World Series that year.

And I'm talking to these guys that came from – I mean, Skeens came from Air Force.

And I'm talking to these guys that came from – I mean, Skeens came from Air Force.

And I'm talking to the kid that was the winning pitcher in the championship game, the game that won the championship. He came from UCLA. And when I talked to them, Skeens did not want to leave Air Force. He loved that place. But he said to me, he said, you ever been to a game there? I'm like, yeah. He goes, how many people were at the game? I'm like, 40 people.

And I'm talking to the kid that was the winning pitcher in the championship game, the game that won the championship. He came from UCLA. And when I talked to them, Skeens did not want to leave Air Force. He loved that place. But he said to me, he said, you ever been to a game there? I'm like, yeah. He goes, how many people were at the game? I'm like, 40 people.

And, you know, when I talk to the kids from UCLA, they would play, you know, UCLA's really good at baseball. And when they would play at Jackie Robinson Ballpark on a Friday night against Stanford in a top 15 game, and there'd be 800 people there, and they'd go back to their apartment, and they'd see the highlight of the South Carolina-Kentucky game, and there's 9,000 people there.

And, you know, when I talk to the kids from UCLA, they would play, you know, UCLA's really good at baseball. And when they would play at Jackie Robinson Ballpark on a Friday night against Stanford in a top 15 game, and there'd be 800 people there, and they'd go back to their apartment, and they'd see the highlight of the South Carolina-Kentucky game, and there's 9,000 people there.

No, no. I say it all the time. I went to Connecticut to work at ESPN at the Death Star, basically a year out of college. And the company, ESPN is so much different now than it was 30 years ago. People from all over the country. But back then, it was basically just me and a bunch of guys who'd gone to school at Syracuse and Columbia. And everyone treated me like a foreign exchange student.

No, no. I say it all the time. I went to Connecticut to work at ESPN at the Death Star, basically a year out of college. And the company, ESPN is so much different now than it was 30 years ago. People from all over the country. But back then, it was basically just me and a bunch of guys who'd gone to school at Syracuse and Columbia. And everyone treated me like a foreign exchange student.

and they're like, the NIL money's fine, but that's why I came here. That's what you want, yeah. Right, to me it's opportunity, but then there's the flip side of that, which is, all right, now if you're the guy, that's not getting to play now because the guy from UCLA and the guy from Air Force and all that came. Well, now you're exactly right.

and they're like, the NIL money's fine, but that's why I came here. That's what you want, yeah. Right, to me it's opportunity, but then there's the flip side of that, which is, all right, now if you're the guy, that's not getting to play now because the guy from UCLA and the guy from Air Force and all that came. Well, now you're exactly right.

I can go to Kentucky and turn them into a College World Series team, or I can go to a Dallas Baptist and still be a top-ten draft pick. So I think you're right. I think that we're seeing a giant market adjustment, and I think when the contracts come, because they're coming, all this is going to hopefully level out a little bit.

I can go to Kentucky and turn them into a College World Series team, or I can go to a Dallas Baptist and still be a top-ten draft pick. So I think you're right. I think that we're seeing a giant market adjustment, and I think when the contracts come, because they're coming, all this is going to hopefully level out a little bit.

The part of it I didn't see coming because, quite frankly, I did not want a 14 playoff in the beginning, but I came around on it. My argument about the 14 playoff was it should be difficult to get into the postseason. If it's not difficult to get into the postseason, now you're the Stanley Cup playoffs and everybody's in. Now you're the NBA playoffs and everybody's in. What's the point? But

The part of it I didn't see coming because, quite frankly, I did not want a 14 playoff in the beginning, but I came around on it. My argument about the 14 playoff was it should be difficult to get into the postseason. If it's not difficult to get into the postseason, now you're the Stanley Cup playoffs and everybody's in. Now you're the NBA playoffs and everybody's in. What's the point? But

What we saw with an expanded playoff, even though I hate 12, I hate buys, that conversation's maybe for later. It opened up the conversation, you're exactly right, to us talking about all these other teams that we would not have been talking about otherwise. It's making people on the West Coast keep an eye on Indiana football.

What we saw with an expanded playoff, even though I hate 12, I hate buys, that conversation's maybe for later. It opened up the conversation, you're exactly right, to us talking about all these other teams that we would not have been talking about otherwise. It's making people on the West Coast keep an eye on Indiana football.

And it's making people in the Midwest keep an eye on Ole Miss football. And even when it came to the Sun Belt or when it came to whomever, you've got to keep an eye on teams now.

And it's making people in the Midwest keep an eye on Ole Miss football. And even when it came to the Sun Belt or when it came to whomever, you've got to keep an eye on teams now.

Yep. And this is why you leave it alone. You know, if you expand to 16, fine. But this idea of, and I want to make sure I'm perfectly clear on this. If this thing is rigged so that X number of SEC teams always get in and X number of Big Ten teams, that's really great for Marty McGee. It's phenomenal for Marty. It's good for business. But for the overall health of college football...

Yep. And this is why you leave it alone. You know, if you expand to 16, fine. But this idea of, and I want to make sure I'm perfectly clear on this. If this thing is rigged so that X number of SEC teams always get in and X number of Big Ten teams, that's really great for Marty McGee. It's phenomenal for Marty. It's good for business. But for the overall health of college football...

The system's already pretty much rigged against Coastal Carolina, but now you're going to make it official, right? So I think that keeping – even if deep down we know it's probably not going to go down, the fact that we are watching games because a team might have the path that you're talking about, and the more teams that are in that conversation – the better off the sport is.

The system's already pretty much rigged against Coastal Carolina, but now you're going to make it official, right? So I think that keeping – even if deep down we know it's probably not going to go down, the fact that we are watching games because a team might have the path that you're talking about, and the more teams that are in that conversation – the better off the sport is.

And what's interesting is when you talk to a Kirby Smart or you talk to a Stoops or you talk to these coaches that would benefit from that, what they worry about is, well, how does this affect Valdosta? How does it affect Youngstown?

And what's interesting is when you talk to a Kirby Smart or you talk to a Stoops or you talk to these coaches that would benefit from that, what they worry about is, well, how does this affect Valdosta? How does it affect Youngstown?

They literally would speak loud and slow to me.

They literally would speak loud and slow to me.

Um, I, you love politics, right?

Um, I, you love politics, right?

I don't know. When you write a book about politics, the Trump era makes it worse, but yes, I'm not, I'm not, I hate it. I hate everything about it. I was a Senate page when I was in high school and I saw enough for me to go. Nope. You were in DC a Senate page. Yeah, I was a long time ago. Um, the, um, I got a pen right here on my wall. Mr. Senate page.

I don't know. When you write a book about politics, the Trump era makes it worse, but yes, I'm not, I'm not, I hate it. I hate everything about it. I was a Senate page when I was in high school and I saw enough for me to go. Nope. You were in DC a Senate page. Yeah, I was a long time ago. Um, the, um, I got a pen right here on my wall. Mr. Senate page.

Like you couldn't understand? Like grinder sandwiches. So if I just did my job, they thought I had overcome some obstacle, right?

Like you couldn't understand? Like grinder sandwiches. So if I just did my job, they thought I had overcome some obstacle, right?

Yeah, well, it was just enough for me to go, no. It's like having an internship at a law firm, and you go, no, don't want to be a lawyer. You don't want to do that. Yeah, I'm not built for this. But I say this knowing that a lot of people just south of where you're sitting are going to probably send me ugly stuff. The Tennessee Statehouse specializes in bluster. They just do.

Yeah, well, it was just enough for me to go, no. It's like having an internship at a law firm, and you go, no, don't want to be a lawyer. You don't want to do that. Yeah, I'm not built for this. But I say this knowing that a lot of people just south of where you're sitting are going to probably send me ugly stuff. The Tennessee Statehouse specializes in bluster. They just do.

There's certain state houses that do that. That's their job. Their job is to get the constituents fired up and make it. But the reality is that this is going to be a national thing. It's going to be a national fight. There's going to be things that override whatever they say in the statehouse, the state capitol building, Capitol Hill, wherever in all these states.

There's certain state houses that do that. That's their job. Their job is to get the constituents fired up and make it. But the reality is that this is going to be a national thing. It's going to be a national fight. There's going to be things that override whatever they say in the statehouse, the state capitol building, Capitol Hill, wherever in all these states.

At some point, it's going to become a federal deal.

At some point, it's going to become a federal deal.

No, it's coming. It's coming. There's too many people... on Capitol Hill that represent too many states that are homes to these powerful schools, that it benefits them to come up with something. And the reality is everybody's going to have to fall in line with it. But I 100% understand and I 100% appreciate the resolutions and the this is what it is and the so-and-so.

No, it's coming. It's coming. There's too many people... on Capitol Hill that represent too many states that are homes to these powerful schools, that it benefits them to come up with something. And the reality is everybody's going to have to fall in line with it. But I 100% understand and I 100% appreciate the resolutions and the this is what it is and the so-and-so.

Yeah, no, no. So, yeah, it worked out for me.

Yeah, no, no. So, yeah, it worked out for me.

But I think that this story isn't reported very much because people are just sick of it.

But I think that this story isn't reported very much because people are just sick of it.

It's white noise. At some point, everyone's eyes glaze over. That's what I'm talking about. What I said a few minutes ago. What you can't do is you can't create a conversation that that's all it is. Once that conversation you're talking about starts to creep into Saturday afternoons, now we've got a problem because now that's the conversation. This time of year, whatever.

It's white noise. At some point, everyone's eyes glaze over. That's what I'm talking about. What I said a few minutes ago. What you can't do is you can't create a conversation that that's all it is. Once that conversation you're talking about starts to creep into Saturday afternoons, now we've got a problem because now that's the conversation. This time of year, whatever.

But once we hit Labor Day weekend, if this is what we're talking about, then that's when people are going to be like, you know what, this sucks, I'm going to play golf.

But once we hit Labor Day weekend, if this is what we're talking about, then that's when people are going to be like, you know what, this sucks, I'm going to play golf.

Man. The good news is it's a lot of people. People ask me that all the time, and I always say the number of jerks.

Man. The good news is it's a lot of people. People ask me that all the time, and I always say the number of jerks.

But, yeah. But, I mean, Sam Pittman.

But, yeah. But, I mean, Sam Pittman.

is one of the nicest people around my life. He's just, well, all I ask of anyone, that's why I like you. All I ask of anyone is just be the genuine article. Like if you're a jerk, be a jerk. You know, if you're a nice guy, be a nice guy. You know, if you, if you, if you're a Bible thumper, thump that Bible, but don't, only do those things when the cameras are on and to be somebody else later.

is one of the nicest people around my life. He's just, well, all I ask of anyone, that's why I like you. All I ask of anyone is just be the genuine article. Like if you're a jerk, be a jerk. You know, if you're a nice guy, be a nice guy. You know, if you, if you, if you're a Bible thumper, thump that Bible, but don't, only do those things when the cameras are on and to be somebody else later.

And Sam Pittman is the same guy that you see on TV that you would run into at the airport or that you would see on his pontoon boat on the lake.

And Sam Pittman is the same guy that you see on TV that you would run into at the airport or that you would see on his pontoon boat on the lake.

Right. They root for him.

Right. They root for him.

You root for him. But Sam Pittman is – I mean, he's – Shane Beamer. And it's interesting because – Oh, really?

You root for him. But Sam Pittman is – I mean, he's – Shane Beamer. And it's interesting because – Oh, really?

That's what I was going to say. And I'm a little biased because I've known Shane for a long time. You know, Marty played high school football against Shane. My dad was a Big East official, an ACC football official. So, I mean, Shane and I stood on sidelines together, you know, way back when. Um, I've known Shane forever, but Shane is, if Shane says he's going to do something, he's going to do it.

That's what I was going to say. And I'm a little biased because I've known Shane for a long time. You know, Marty played high school football against Shane. My dad was a Big East official, an ACC football official. So, I mean, Shane and I stood on sidelines together, you know, way back when. Um, I've known Shane forever, but Shane is, if Shane says he's going to do something, he's going to do it.

Um, but I think he is, um, but he also is very emotional. I mean, I was at the citrus bowl. I went to the citrus bowl.

Um, but I think he is, um, but he also is very emotional. I mean, I was at the citrus bowl. I went to the citrus bowl.

That was a weird deal. But, yeah, but there's a lot of nice guys. But Pittman's the one. I mean, Pittman is the guy that literally if you had a 12-pack and you just said, I got a couple hours, he's the guy that if you could bring him into the room, you need to do it.

That was a weird deal. But, yeah, but there's a lot of nice guys. But Pittman's the one. I mean, Pittman is the guy that literally if you had a 12-pack and you just said, I got a couple hours, he's the guy that if you could bring him into the room, you need to do it.

Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer is everything the opposite of what I just said about Sam Pittman.

Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer is everything the opposite of what I just said about Sam Pittman.

I think I got what I really don't like is I don't I don't care for people who really love to tell me how to be a man or how to be a leader or how to be whatever. And I mean. Yeah, and then you have your – Phenomenal football mind. Phenomenal. But I just – that part to me, I don't need a lecture about, you know, here's my five points of how to be an honorable person.

I think I got what I really don't like is I don't I don't care for people who really love to tell me how to be a man or how to be a leader or how to be whatever. And I mean. Yeah, and then you have your – Phenomenal football mind. Phenomenal. But I just – that part to me, I don't need a lecture about, you know, here's my five points of how to be an honorable person.

I mean, the answer was Mike Leach. I mean, can't hardly talk to the guy. The thing about Leach was I went out to, I didn't know him really. I didn't know him at all when he was at Texas Tech, but I went to Pullman. If you Google me and Mike Leach, you'll get the story. I went to Pullman. They had told me I had 20 minutes with him and I stayed for three days.

I mean, the answer was Mike Leach. I mean, can't hardly talk to the guy. The thing about Leach was I went out to, I didn't know him really. I didn't know him at all when he was at Texas Tech, but I went to Pullman. If you Google me and Mike Leach, you'll get the story. I went to Pullman. They had told me I had 20 minutes with him and I stayed for three days.

Yeah, so for years on Saturday, we would lead into Daria and Mel with our buddies Daria Noka and Mel Kiper. And when Daria and Mel ended, I guess it was in 2024, all of a sudden everybody was like, Marty McGee, a show that quite frankly there were people at the time

Yeah, so for years on Saturday, we would lead into Daria and Mel with our buddies Daria Noka and Mel Kiper. And when Daria and Mel ended, I guess it was in 2024, all of a sudden everybody was like, Marty McGee, a show that quite frankly there were people at the time

And we drank all the rum in Pullman.

And we drank all the rum in Pullman.

Yeah, Utah politics. And he knew I was not. But that last night, you know, he had this one bar he'd go to in Pullman and he would famously walk home. It was a couple of miles, walk through the woods. And the area around Pullman is stunningly beautiful. It is.

Yeah, Utah politics. And he knew I was not. But that last night, you know, he had this one bar he'd go to in Pullman and he would famously walk home. It was a couple of miles, walk through the woods. And the area around Pullman is stunningly beautiful. It is.

And he would walk through the woods to go home at two o'clock in the morning or whatever. And I'm like, coach, I'll just drive you home. Yeah, I got to go to Spokane, get on a plane in the morning. He and I sat in the driveway. Somewhere I have a recording, and I'll never share it with anyone, but I have it.

And he would walk through the woods to go home at two o'clock in the morning or whatever. And I'm like, coach, I'll just drive you home. Yeah, I got to go to Spokane, get on a plane in the morning. He and I sat in the driveway. Somewhere I have a recording, and I'll never share it with anyone, but I have it.

And we talked about everything from Richard Petty to the White House to the NFL National Anthem stuff, which is kind of the big topic at the time, which seems like 5,000 years ago, to football, to Geronimo. And I said nothing for hours. And then finally, the newspaper guy. like walks over to the rental car in the driveway. Hey, coach, here's your paper.

And we talked about everything from Richard Petty to the White House to the NFL National Anthem stuff, which is kind of the big topic at the time, which seems like 5,000 years ago, to football, to Geronimo. And I said nothing for hours. And then finally, the newspaper guy. like walks over to the rental car in the driveway. Hey, coach, here's your paper.

And that's when I was like, damn, I got to go. I want to get to Spokane and make my flight, coach. I got to get out of here. So, yeah, he was the one. He would just randomly text me something at 3 o'clock in the morning, and I would wake up the next morning and just – That's great.

And that's when I was like, damn, I got to go. I want to get to Spokane and make my flight, coach. I got to get out of here. So, yeah, he was the one. He would just randomly text me something at 3 o'clock in the morning, and I would wake up the next morning and just – That's great.

I think that it's not any different than I think that's probably the situation in a lot of houses. I think that the parents might lean one way and the kids might lean another way. When you and I were growing up, you just voted however your parents told you to vote.

I think that it's not any different than I think that's probably the situation in a lot of houses. I think that the parents might lean one way and the kids might lean another way. When you and I were growing up, you just voted however your parents told you to vote.

And I don't think that's the case anymore, primarily because of social media. I mean, kids are so much more politically aware, active, whatever, than they ever were. But I think that the way that you – the coaches that are able to navigate that are the ones that are willing to say, all right, I want to learn from these kids.

And I don't think that's the case anymore, primarily because of social media. I mean, kids are so much more politically aware, active, whatever, than they ever were. But I think that the way that you – the coaches that are able to navigate that are the ones that are willing to say, all right, I want to learn from these kids.

And on the flip side, I want to explain to them, they have real discussions about it. I mean, I remember talking to Gary Pinkle about that, you know, when there was all that political unrest, you know, in the state of Missouri and how he navigated that. I think they had a whole SEC story at 30 for 30 about it. Yeah. You know, Nick Saban has talked about it, about, you know, navigating the team.

And on the flip side, I want to explain to them, they have real discussions about it. I mean, I remember talking to Gary Pinkle about that, you know, when there was all that political unrest, you know, in the state of Missouri and how he navigated that. I think they had a whole SEC story at 30 for 30 about it. Yeah. You know, Nick Saban has talked about it, about, you know, navigating the team.

didn't really want us on their radio i understand and we and we've been on now longer than i mean it's not even really close we've been on now we've been on since marty and i were talking today we we started doing a podcast no one listened to like more than a dozen years ago you've been on since 2015 you on the radio then we moved to saturday afternoon um like at three o'clock in the afternoon which the family really liked um and then we moved to saturday morning yeah

didn't really want us on their radio i understand and we and we've been on now longer than i mean it's not even really close we've been on now we've been on since marty and i were talking today we we started doing a podcast no one listened to like more than a dozen years ago you've been on since 2015 you on the radio then we moved to saturday afternoon um like at three o'clock in the afternoon which the family really liked um and then we moved to saturday morning yeah

All these guys that navigate their teams through 2020. Yes. 2020 was it's easy to just go to the pandemic and forget about, you know, everything else that was going on. And it was it was an incredibly, incredibly divisive time. And it really, really kind of set the stage for all of this now. But to me, that's what it is. I mean, you know, and I used to see that. I talk about this all the time.

All these guys that navigate their teams through 2020. Yes. 2020 was it's easy to just go to the pandemic and forget about, you know, everything else that was going on. And it was it was an incredibly, incredibly divisive time. And it really, really kind of set the stage for all of this now. But to me, that's what it is. I mean, you know, and I used to see that. I talk about this all the time.

I mentioned I was a Senate page. I was a Senate page in the late 80s. And I was from South Carolina. So a lot of times, you know, I would be assigned to Strom Thurmond.

I mentioned I was a Senate page. I was a Senate page in the late 80s. And I was from South Carolina. So a lot of times, you know, I would be assigned to Strom Thurmond.

So I had both. But Strom was the guy that, you know, and I knew Strom's daughter. But Strom and Ted Kennedy was across the hallway. And a lot of nights, I mean a lot of nights, Ted Kennedy would come across the hallway after everyone had left, and he and Strom Thurmond would sit in there and have drinks and talk about stuff.

So I had both. But Strom was the guy that, you know, and I knew Strom's daughter. But Strom and Ted Kennedy was across the hallway. And a lot of nights, I mean a lot of nights, Ted Kennedy would come across the hallway after everyone had left, and he and Strom Thurmond would sit in there and have drinks and talk about stuff.

And all of this is while Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill were doing the same thing at the White House. You can't do it now. If you do it now, cable news cameras are going to catch you, and now you're a betrayer to the cause or whatever else. But I think that's the perfect illustration of – You don't have to agree, but can we have a discussion about it without immediately turning it into a fight?

And all of this is while Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill were doing the same thing at the White House. You can't do it now. If you do it now, cable news cameras are going to catch you, and now you're a betrayer to the cause or whatever else. But I think that's the perfect illustration of – You don't have to agree, but can we have a discussion about it without immediately turning it into a fight?

And so I think the coaches who can navigate that as teachers, because most of these guys started as teachers. And so when they can sit in a room with 150 kids that come from a very different type of background, most of them, and probably are registered a very different way to vote. All right, let's have a discussion about that.

And so I think the coaches who can navigate that as teachers, because most of these guys started as teachers. And so when they can sit in a room with 150 kids that come from a very different type of background, most of them, and probably are registered a very different way to vote. All right, let's have a discussion about that.

Can we talk about what this why I believe this or why you believe that or why we're why the nation is doing these things? And, you know, I think. I think that – I wish everyone could do that. And the reality is that no matter what side they're on, the politician's job now is to keep all of us pissed off. Their job is to keep all of us mad at each other all the time.

Can we talk about what this why I believe this or why you believe that or why we're why the nation is doing these things? And, you know, I think. I think that – I wish everyone could do that. And the reality is that no matter what side they're on, the politician's job now is to keep all of us pissed off. Their job is to keep all of us mad at each other all the time.

And so if you can sit in a room – yeah, if you can sit in a room and have a conversation without it automatically being a fight, then that's how you grow. And so I think that's how coaches do it.

And so if you can sit in a room – yeah, if you can sit in a room and have a conversation without it automatically being a fight, then that's how you grow. And so I think that's how coaches do it.

No, it's just their job is to keep us all divided. It is, because it's good for business. It's great for business. I mean, you know, and I grew up in North Carolina, which has all been a very purple state. You know, another part I hate, too, and I don't like to talk about politics, but here we are.

No, it's just their job is to keep us all divided. It is, because it's good for business. It's great for business. I mean, you know, and I grew up in North Carolina, which has all been a very purple state. You know, another part I hate, too, and I don't like to talk about politics, but here we are.

One of the great disservices to the history of this nation is when they started painting the state solid red and solid blue. I live in North Carolina, the state's purple. Go back and look at the election results and go back. When I was growing up, we always had, you had Terry Sanford, you had Jesse Helms, right? We had two Republican governors in my entire life in North Carolina.

One of the great disservices to the history of this nation is when they started painting the state solid red and solid blue. I live in North Carolina, the state's purple. Go back and look at the election results and go back. When I was growing up, we always had, you had Terry Sanford, you had Jesse Helms, right? We had two Republican governors in my entire life in North Carolina.

The reality is, is that it's a purple state. But when I go to Manhattan,

The reality is, is that it's a purple state. But when I go to Manhattan,

Everybody thinks it's not. The truth is in the middle. It's always been in the middle. And those who live in the middle usually end up making it work. At the very least, go in the middle and have a conversation. But it's just, man, I can't believe I'm talking about this.

Everybody thinks it's not. The truth is in the middle. It's always been in the middle. And those who live in the middle usually end up making it work. At the very least, go in the middle and have a conversation. But it's just, man, I can't believe I'm talking about this.

No, it's fine. But I think that's the answer to your question. The answer to your question is how do – how does an old gray-headed coach who makes 12 million dollars a year talk about serious fundamental issues with a room full of kids who most of them come from very, very backgrounds and those things. I think that's it.

No, it's fine. But I think that's the answer to your question. The answer to your question is how do – how does an old gray-headed coach who makes 12 million dollars a year talk about serious fundamental issues with a room full of kids who most of them come from very, very backgrounds and those things. I think that's it.

I think you walk into the door with an open mind and have those conversations. If you can't do that, then you probably shouldn't be.

I think you walk into the door with an open mind and have those conversations. If you can't do that, then you probably shouldn't be.

I'll tell you a story about that. The hilarious thing is all of my friends know I'm not a morning person at all. And I co-host a morning show. But my family, I'm in a house of night people. We sleep in, but we work all night. And my jobs have mostly been like that.

I'll tell you a story about that. The hilarious thing is all of my friends know I'm not a morning person at all. And I co-host a morning show. But my family, I'm in a house of night people. We sleep in, but we work all night. And my jobs have mostly been like that.

Well, my take is a bigger take on Tar Heel football. And I wrote this column when Belichick was named head coach because I have literally lived in North Carolina my entire life except for I spent two years, my last two years of high school were in South Carolina, barely over the state line, and when I went to school in Tennessee. I was born in North Carolina, buried in North Carolina.

Well, my take is a bigger take on Tar Heel football. And I wrote this column when Belichick was named head coach because I have literally lived in North Carolina my entire life except for I spent two years, my last two years of high school were in South Carolina, barely over the state line, and when I went to school in Tennessee. I was born in North Carolina, buried in North Carolina.

I am half a century old, and in my lifetime, North Carolina has won one ACC championship. My dad started officiating ACC football in 1981 and retired in 2009 and never saw North Carolina win an ACC championship football. So when I wrote my column when Belichick got the job, I said, it's going to be interesting to see how

I am half a century old, and in my lifetime, North Carolina has won one ACC championship. My dad started officiating ACC football in 1981 and retired in 2009 and never saw North Carolina win an ACC championship football. So when I wrote my column when Belichick got the job, I said, it's going to be interesting to see how

Chapel Hill manages to take arguably the greatest coach in the history of the NFL and turn it into a solid 8-4 Gator Bowl season. That's what they're going to do. They're going to go to the Mayo Bowl. And what I didn't see coming was all this. Now, they might get into the season, and they might roll, and it might not matter.

Chapel Hill manages to take arguably the greatest coach in the history of the NFL and turn it into a solid 8-4 Gator Bowl season. That's what they're going to do. They're going to go to the Mayo Bowl. And what I didn't see coming was all this. Now, they might get into the season, and they might roll, and it might not matter.

But the reality is that the last time North Carolina won the conference, Lawrence Taylor was a linebacker.

But the reality is that the last time North Carolina won the conference, Lawrence Taylor was a linebacker.

And until they – I wrote a column 15 years ago for ESPN Magazine about these are the 10 programs that should be way better at football than they are, and I can't explain it. UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, you know, I had all these. But at the top of the list was North Carolina. And I put NC State in there too. It just doesn't make any sense that they're not great at football.

And until they – I wrote a column 15 years ago for ESPN Magazine about these are the 10 programs that should be way better at football than they are, and I can't explain it. UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, you know, I had all these. But at the top of the list was North Carolina. And I put NC State in there too. It just doesn't make any sense that they're not great at football.

Yeah. They're not enjoying it very much. They're all just, you know, and what's interesting too is they're all having to make a decision right now because the basketball program is floundering.

Yeah. They're not enjoying it very much. They're all just, you know, and what's interesting too is they're all having to make a decision right now because the basketball program is floundering.

And so they're having to make a decision, right? There's only so much money. And I'm the guy that used to own the bank of fill-in North Carolina town here, Monroe. And then that bank got sold to Bank of America, and now I'm a billionaire. So I've got to decide, where am I going to put my money? Am I going to fund this program with the girlfriend? No.

And so they're having to make a decision, right? There's only so much money. And I'm the guy that used to own the bank of fill-in North Carolina town here, Monroe. And then that bank got sold to Bank of America, and now I'm a billionaire. So I've got to decide, where am I going to put my money? Am I going to fund this program with the girlfriend? No.

Who, by the way, would just build a $75 million football facility and still couldn't win the ACC. Brought Mack Brown back and still couldn't win the ACC. So do I put my money there or do I go get us a power forward? Or do I go get us a backcourt? Which, quite frankly, you can do much cheaper. And so I think that's where they all are. But I'll tell you this again. I was sitting here in Charlotte.

Who, by the way, would just build a $75 million football facility and still couldn't win the ACC. Brought Mack Brown back and still couldn't win the ACC. So do I put my money there or do I go get us a power forward? Or do I go get us a backcourt? Which, quite frankly, you can do much cheaper. And so I think that's where they all are. But I'll tell you this again. I was sitting here in Charlotte.

But my wife was so mad when I told her one night at dinner, I'd go, hey, they're thinking about moving Marty McGee to Saturday morning at 7 o'clock in the morning. Oh, my God. You know, Friday nights when we go out and it's not. Yeah, you're right. You're right. And so I didn't bring it up again. And later on, we're at dinner and she goes, what did they decide to do with the show?

But my wife was so mad when I told her one night at dinner, I'd go, hey, they're thinking about moving Marty McGee to Saturday morning at 7 o'clock in the morning. Oh, my God. You know, Friday nights when we go out and it's not. Yeah, you're right. You're right. And so I didn't bring it up again. And later on, we're at dinner and she goes, what did they decide to do with the show?

If North Carolina wins 10 games and they play against Clemson in the ACC championship game and maybe have a chance to make the playoff or whatever, I guess none of that will matter. But right now it is –

If North Carolina wins 10 games and they play against Clemson in the ACC championship game and maybe have a chance to make the playoff or whatever, I guess none of that will matter. But right now it is –

I mean, I was – we all – That's where I spent most of my childhood. I grew up a North Carolina State fan. That's got nothing to do with how I feel about this. It's just – it is what it is. And I've seen the movie so many times. And, you know, it's – this just isn't the movie I was expecting to watch. But the end result will probably be the same.

I mean, I was – we all – That's where I spent most of my childhood. I grew up a North Carolina State fan. That's got nothing to do with how I feel about this. It's just – it is what it is. And I've seen the movie so many times. And, you know, it's – this just isn't the movie I was expecting to watch. But the end result will probably be the same.

They'll be back here in Charlotte for the Duke's Mayo Bowl. And God bless them.

They'll be back here in Charlotte for the Duke's Mayo Bowl. And God bless them.

Well, my buddy Seth Wickersham, our co-worker at ESPN, who's written so many ridiculously great stories and books about him. I keep telling him this is the book I actually want to receive.

Well, my buddy Seth Wickersham, our co-worker at ESPN, who's written so many ridiculously great stories and books about him. I keep telling him this is the book I actually want to receive.

I feel like she would probably sign up for that. My daughter and I just watched The Secret Lives of the Mormon Wives.

I feel like she would probably sign up for that. My daughter and I just watched The Secret Lives of the Mormon Wives.

They'll load up Mood of Chapel Hill and shoot that right now.

They'll load up Mood of Chapel Hill and shoot that right now.

A little uncomfortable watching it with your daughter. I'll say that. My daughter and I have always picked one trash... reality show, and we'd watch it together. And this is no slight to my friends at Hulu because they know what that show is, and it's a huge hit. But we used to watch Selling Sunset. I saw that.

A little uncomfortable watching it with your daughter. I'll say that. My daughter and I have always picked one trash... reality show, and we'd watch it together. And this is no slight to my friends at Hulu because they know what that show is, and it's a huge hit. But we used to watch Selling Sunset. I saw that.

I thought that was a good show. I saw one of the twins at the Miami Grand Prix and took a selfie with him. We sent it to my daughter, and he goes, you watch that show with your daughter? I'm like, yeah.

I thought that was a good show. I saw one of the twins at the Miami Grand Prix and took a selfie with him. We sent it to my daughter, and he goes, you watch that show with your daughter? I'm like, yeah.

No, it's upswing, and it's in so much better shape now than it was in 2019. I tell everyone it's hard to try to put a positive spin on the pandemic. But the pandemic, NASCAR wisely used to grease the rails on trying stuff, right? Dark tracks and stuff like that, yeah.

No, it's upswing, and it's in so much better shape now than it was in 2019. I tell everyone it's hard to try to put a positive spin on the pandemic. But the pandemic, NASCAR wisely used to grease the rails on trying stuff, right? Dark tracks and stuff like that, yeah.

They were like, all right, we're going to run back-to-back races to so-and-so, and we're going to run a Wednesday night race in Martinsville. And ever since then, there's been a willingness to try stuff. Listen, I was born, and I will be buried in Rockingham, North Carolina. And they just ran trucks in Xfinity there a few weeks ago.

They were like, all right, we're going to run back-to-back races to so-and-so, and we're going to run a Wednesday night race in Martinsville. And ever since then, there's been a willingness to try stuff. Listen, I was born, and I will be buried in Rockingham, North Carolina. And they just ran trucks in Xfinity there a few weeks ago.

I said they decided to move it to 7 a.m. She's what are they going to do it? I go, they did it five weeks ago.

I said they decided to move it to 7 a.m. She's what are they going to do it? I go, they did it five weeks ago.

That track literally had a tree growing up through the backstretch. a couple years ago. So they just ran the All-Star Race at North Wilkesboro. I just voted on the NASCAR Hall of Fame this week.

That track literally had a tree growing up through the backstretch. a couple years ago. So they just ran the All-Star Race at North Wilkesboro. I just voted on the NASCAR Hall of Fame this week.

No, Harry Gant.

No, Harry Gant.

Handsome Harry. But yeah, but it's... But they... And it goes back to what we were talking about earlier.

Handsome Harry. But yeah, but it's... But they... And it goes back to what we were talking about earlier.

NASCAR has finally, after years of trying to rip its roots out of the ground, they have finally started to figure out the balance between you can go run a street race in Chicago or a street race in Mexico City, which they're going to do, if you balance it with going to North Wilkesboro and going to Rockingham. And running more short track races.

NASCAR has finally, after years of trying to rip its roots out of the ground, they have finally started to figure out the balance between you can go run a street race in Chicago or a street race in Mexico City, which they're going to do, if you balance it with going to North Wilkesboro and going to Rockingham. And running more short track races.

And so I think that it teaches people about the history of the sport as opposed to trying to bury it under the ground like they did for years. And so, yes. Will it ever go back to 1997? No.

And so I think that it teaches people about the history of the sport as opposed to trying to bury it under the ground like they did for years. And so, yes. Will it ever go back to 1997? No.

OK, you know, my my family, my family sleeps in.

OK, you know, my my family, my family sleeps in.

Yeah, and I rode that wave. I literally started at ESPN. I started ESPN the week Jeff Gordon won the first Brickyard 400. That's 96, right? We started a nightly motorsports show, and I've been riding that wave ever since. But 100%, I would go all the way to 2006, 2007 when the market crashed. The business crashed. But, yeah, they're getting there.

Yeah, and I rode that wave. I literally started at ESPN. I started ESPN the week Jeff Gordon won the first Brickyard 400. That's 96, right? We started a nightly motorsports show, and I've been riding that wave ever since. But 100%, I would go all the way to 2006, 2007 when the market crashed. The business crashed. But, yeah, they're getting there.

So I come home from the show at 1030 in the morning or whatever. And I'm usually waking everybody up.

So I come home from the show at 1030 in the morning or whatever. And I'm usually waking everybody up.

They'll never get back to where they were, but they're in way better shape than they were even just five years ago, let alone 10, 15 years ago.

They'll never get back to where they were, but they're in way better shape than they were even just five years ago, let alone 10, 15 years ago.

Yeah. And there is a I've already seen it, but I think it drops next week or this weekend. There's a on Amazon Prime. There's a four part Earnhardt documentary just titled Earnhardt. And it's executive produced by Ron Howard. And it is so good. And I mean, it's really, really good. And it's but yeah, it takes you back to that day. And it's yeah. You know, I wasn't around when Kennedy died.

Yeah. And there is a I've already seen it, but I think it drops next week or this weekend. There's a on Amazon Prime. There's a four part Earnhardt documentary just titled Earnhardt. And it's executive produced by Ron Howard. And it is so good. And I mean, it's really, really good. And it's but yeah, it takes you back to that day. And it's yeah. You know, I wasn't around when Kennedy died.

But still there's moments in your life where it's like everything before something happened, everything after something happened. And February 18, 2001 for a lot of us is that day. And that was personally, professionally, all of that for me. People always talk about the legacy of Dale Earnhardt. And it's the intimidator and the man in black and all that stuff.

But still there's moments in your life where it's like everything before something happened, everything after something happened. And February 18, 2001 for a lot of us is that day. And that was personally, professionally, all of that for me. People always talk about the legacy of Dale Earnhardt. And it's the intimidator and the man in black and all that stuff.

But no one has died in a top three NASCAR national series since he did that day.

But no one has died in a top three NASCAR national series since he did that day.

I almost quit. I almost quit. Did you really? Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin, Tony Roper. And it was an IndyCar Formula One. I was covering funerals monthly. And I looked at my wife and I go, I can't do this. I'm going to cover a sport where people don't die. And then after Earnhardt died, when Superman died, suddenly everybody went, oh.

I almost quit. I almost quit. Did you really? Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin, Tony Roper. And it was an IndyCar Formula One. I was covering funerals monthly. And I looked at my wife and I go, I can't do this. I'm going to cover a sport where people don't die. And then after Earnhardt died, when Superman died, suddenly everybody went, oh.

Maybe we should change some stuff. But, yeah, that was one of the most pivotal days in the history of sports, let alone motorsports.

Maybe we should change some stuff. But, yeah, that was one of the most pivotal days in the history of sports, let alone motorsports.

Hey, congratulations on the new show, and apparently you're not co-hosting a political podcast.

Hey, congratulations on the new show, and apparently you're not co-hosting a political podcast.

You did the impossible. All right, thanks.

You did the impossible. All right, thanks.

I got in trouble. Rightfully so. Marty and I were getting feedback sometimes. Hey, you have to at least occasionally. If LeBron drops 64 on Friday night, you probably should mention it on Saturday morning. There was one week where you subbed for Marty. And you and I literally talked about county fairs.

I got in trouble. Rightfully so. Marty and I were getting feedback sometimes. Hey, you have to at least occasionally. If LeBron drops 64 on Friday night, you probably should mention it on Saturday morning. There was one week where you subbed for Marty. And you and I literally talked about county fairs.

I remember that. It was awesome, but that was the one time where they were like, okay, you literally did not mention sports for two hours. I'm like, okay, you know what? That's a fair.

I remember that. It was awesome, but that was the one time where they were like, okay, you literally did not mention sports for two hours. I'm like, okay, you know what? That's a fair.

I appreciate it in return. When I was in the process of trying to convince people to let us do radio, you guys had me on your show. It kind of helped me. I made this transition. The first half of my career, I was a producer. I was on the producer track and really enjoyed it. I felt like I was pretty good at it. Then I started writing for USP in the magazine on the side.

I appreciate it in return. When I was in the process of trying to convince people to let us do radio, you guys had me on your show. It kind of helped me. I made this transition. The first half of my career, I was a producer. I was on the producer track and really enjoyed it. I felt like I was pretty good at it. Then I started writing for USP in the magazine on the side.

I would produce these features and Like say I'm producing a two and a half minute story about Jeff Gordon from RPM Tonight, you know, back in the day. And I would call ESPN the magazine and go, I interviewed Jeff Gordon for an hour and we're going to use, we're going to use two and a half minutes. And so let me write something.

I would produce these features and Like say I'm producing a two and a half minute story about Jeff Gordon from RPM Tonight, you know, back in the day. And I would call ESPN the magazine and go, I interviewed Jeff Gordon for an hour and we're going to use, we're going to use two and a half minutes. And so let me write something.

And so, and then when I, when I left ESPN for a minute and when I came back and I, as a writer, just strictly as a writer, no longer as a producer, they started putting me on some shows, but it was because of guys like you that would let me go on their shows and prove that I could talk, you know,

And so, and then when I, when I left ESPN for a minute and when I came back and I, as a writer, just strictly as a writer, no longer as a producer, they started putting me on some shows, but it was because of guys like you that would let me go on their shows and prove that I could talk, you know,

Yeah, it's not even close. And I think it's for the globe. And I wrote this column a few years ago. And there are stretches where this isn't going to happen. But for the most part, it's happened every Memorial Day Sunday for the last several decades, which is you start with the Grand Prix of Monaco in the morning, Formula One, and then you have the Indianapolis 500.

Yeah, it's not even close. And I think it's for the globe. And I wrote this column a few years ago. And there are stretches where this isn't going to happen. But for the most part, it's happened every Memorial Day Sunday for the last several decades, which is you start with the Grand Prix of Monaco in the morning, Formula One, and then you have the Indianapolis 500.

And those are two races that are watched all over the world.

And those are two races that are watched all over the world.

And then you have the I still call it the World 600, but the Cold 600 here in Charlotte, where I live, is that night. And so, yeah, auto racing starts before breakfast and it goes until way after dinner.

And then you have the I still call it the World 600, but the Cold 600 here in Charlotte, where I live, is that night. And so, yeah, auto racing starts before breakfast and it goes until way after dinner.

And I think most people are like that because the reality is that the Monaco race is not a great race. These cars weren't built to race on the streets, certainly not the streets of this winding, but the spectacle of it is second to none. And then Indianapolis... I think it's the greatest race in the world and has become a phenomenal race over the last decade and a half.

And I think most people are like that because the reality is that the Monaco race is not a great race. These cars weren't built to race on the streets, certainly not the streets of this winding, but the spectacle of it is second to none. And then Indianapolis... I think it's the greatest race in the world and has become a phenomenal race over the last decade and a half.

It used to be an endurance race. Now it's a race race. Then you have the Coke 600 on Sunday. What's cool is, for example, Sunday morning, So McLaren, who's dominating Formula 1 this year, McLaren also fields Indy cars. And so I'll be watching the Monaco Grand Prix with the McLaren guys from Indianapolis.

It used to be an endurance race. Now it's a race race. Then you have the Coke 600 on Sunday. What's cool is, for example, Sunday morning, So McLaren, who's dominating Formula 1 this year, McLaren also fields Indy cars. And so I'll be watching the Monaco Grand Prix with the McLaren guys from Indianapolis.

And then later on, my colleague Nate Saunders will be watching the Indy 500 with the McLaren guys as they're packing up in Monaco. And then they'll all watch the Coke 600. That's what's changed over the last 30 years is – All of these racers watch different types of racing. When I first came along, you had to make a choice.

And then later on, my colleague Nate Saunders will be watching the Indy 500 with the McLaren guys as they're packing up in Monaco. And then they'll all watch the Coke 600. That's what's changed over the last 30 years is – All of these racers watch different types of racing. When I first came along, you had to make a choice.

Are you an NHRA guy or a NASCAR guy or a Formula One guy or an IndyCar guy? And now there's so much cross-pollination, everybody watches all of it. And that part to me, yeah, I don't think it's even close. It's the biggest day of racing in the world.

Are you an NHRA guy or a NASCAR guy or a Formula One guy or an IndyCar guy? And now there's so much cross-pollination, everybody watches all of it. And that part to me, yeah, I don't think it's even close. It's the biggest day of racing in the world.

Oh, yeah. And you mentioned COVID. That's all it is. What people don't realize is that Netflix Formula One show, which won a Sports Emmy just as we were recording this again, that show had existed for a couple of years before COVID and no one watched it.

Oh, yeah. And you mentioned COVID. That's all it is. What people don't realize is that Netflix Formula One show, which won a Sports Emmy just as we were recording this again, that show had existed for a couple of years before COVID and no one watched it.

When everyone was stuck at home for COVID, they're just looking for something to binge. And people started watching it. And the attraction of Formula One has always been two things. It's the spectacle of it. The cars are phenomenal. They don't race particularly well against each other. Like, there's not really a show.

When everyone was stuck at home for COVID, they're just looking for something to binge. And people started watching it. And the attraction of Formula One has always been two things. It's the spectacle of it. The cars are phenomenal. They don't race particularly well against each other. Like, there's not really a show.

But the cars have always been the most technologically advanced machines on the planet.

But the cars have always been the most technologically advanced machines on the planet.

Yeah, they're phenomenal. But the other part is the soap opera. And, you know, when I first started working at ESPN in the 90s, it was Michael Schumacher versus Damon Hill. And I just saw Damon Hill in Miami at the Formula One race a few weeks ago, and we were talking about this. And the racing itself, with the exception of a couple of races, weren't great.

Yeah, they're phenomenal. But the other part is the soap opera. And, you know, when I first started working at ESPN in the 90s, it was Michael Schumacher versus Damon Hill. And I just saw Damon Hill in Miami at the Formula One race a few weeks ago, and we were talking about this. And the racing itself, with the exception of a couple of races, weren't great.

But the drama, the story of Formula One was what happened from Monday morning to... all the way up to the green flag and it was this guy doesn't like that guy or this guy you know we had spy gate and we had people stealing secrets and guys changing teams and taking technological you know secrets from one of the other all this stuff and so What the Netflix show does is it underlines all that.

But the drama, the story of Formula One was what happened from Monday morning to... all the way up to the green flag and it was this guy doesn't like that guy or this guy you know we had spy gate and we had people stealing secrets and guys changing teams and taking technological you know secrets from one of the other all this stuff and so What the Netflix show does is it underlines all that.

It highlights all that. And it takes these robotronic seeming people and gives them personalities. And so, yeah, the reality is that's what they love. And it's also they're good looking. I was in Miami, man. It was 16-year-old girls as far as you could see.

It highlights all that. And it takes these robotronic seeming people and gives them personalities. And so, yeah, the reality is that's what they love. And it's also they're good looking. I was in Miami, man. It was 16-year-old girls as far as you could see.

And they had lined the paddock and were just screaming. That's crazy. Screaming every time these drivers came out. And that's just not, that's not something I've ever seen.

And they had lined the paddock and were just screaming. That's crazy. Screaming every time these drivers came out. And that's just not, that's not something I've ever seen.

Yeah. So that weekend, when we did Marty and McGee, I was in Miami for the Formula One event. Marty was at the Derby.

Yeah. So that weekend, when we did Marty and McGee, I was in Miami for the Formula One event. Marty was at the Derby.

And Marty was like, well, I'm at the Derby where the most beautiful people in the world are. I go, oh. I don't know if that's true anymore. You know, and there were a lot of people that were at the Derby on Saturday or in Miami on Sunday. And it was like, you know, Timothee Chalamet and, you know, he's dating one of the Jenners and she was there. And it was funny that I have a 20-year-old daughter.

And Marty was like, well, I'm at the Derby where the most beautiful people in the world are. I go, oh. I don't know if that's true anymore. You know, and there were a lot of people that were at the Derby on Saturday or in Miami on Sunday. And it was like, you know, Timothee Chalamet and, you know, he's dating one of the Jenners and she was there. And it was funny that I have a 20-year-old daughter.

And I'm in the paddock just kind of walking around. Honestly, I'm just creepily stalking famous people. Like, all right, who's here and who's not? And seeing NFL guys, guys I covered in college in the SEC or NFL now and seeing it was great. But I would take a picture. and texted to my daughter. I'm like, who is this? Well, that's so-and-so. She has 22 million Instagram followers. Oh, okay.

And I'm in the paddock just kind of walking around. Honestly, I'm just creepily stalking famous people. Like, all right, who's here and who's not? And seeing NFL guys, guys I covered in college in the SEC or NFL now and seeing it was great. But I would take a picture. and texted to my daughter. I'm like, who is this? Well, that's so-and-so. She has 22 million Instagram followers. Oh, okay.

But you know, there was a lot of that.

But you know, there was a lot of that.

It was a few years ago. In fact, it was 2021 because it was my first post-COVID trip or during COVID trip. And it was the Formula One opener was in Abu Dhabi. But they were having this event in Beverly Hills. So they sent me and Marty to Beverly Hills, and we drove around a $300,000 Aston Martin.

It was a few years ago. In fact, it was 2021 because it was my first post-COVID trip or during COVID trip. And it was the Formula One opener was in Abu Dhabi. But they were having this event in Beverly Hills. So they sent me and Marty to Beverly Hills, and we drove around a $300,000 Aston Martin.

And they had a pop-up drive-in movie theater on the roof of this parking deck at this swanky mall in Beverly Hills. And Hollywood Hills all around us and the whole thing. Well, Marty and I are 6, 7 o'clock in the morning on this rooftop sitting in his car. All these other cars start pulling up. And it looked like Tokyo Drift, Fast and Furious. Well, I'm posting pictures or whatever on Instagram.

And they had a pop-up drive-in movie theater on the roof of this parking deck at this swanky mall in Beverly Hills. And Hollywood Hills all around us and the whole thing. Well, Marty and I are 6, 7 o'clock in the morning on this rooftop sitting in his car. All these other cars start pulling up. And it looked like Tokyo Drift, Fast and Furious. Well, I'm posting pictures or whatever on Instagram.

My daughter's like, Dad, you don't understand. This girl that's in this car next to you, she's so-and-so and so-and-so. I'm like, okay. But, yeah, they kind of rule the world now. At the SEC Championship, certainly at the college football playoff, there will be a box of these people that all look like they were made in an AI machine And it's the influencers. It's a thing.

My daughter's like, Dad, you don't understand. This girl that's in this car next to you, she's so-and-so and so-and-so. I'm like, okay. But, yeah, they kind of rule the world now. At the SEC Championship, certainly at the college football playoff, there will be a box of these people that all look like they were made in an AI machine And it's the influencers. It's a thing.

I would have tried to do that back in the day.

I would have tried to do that back in the day.

I can't influence the people in my house. That's true. Let alone 3 million people in Tokyo.

I can't influence the people in my house. That's true. Let alone 3 million people in Tokyo.

They've overhauled the cars significantly. They're not spec cars, but they're – yeah, they are. The cars are almost identical. But that's good for racing. It's great. No, it's great. And I would argue the same thing about NASCAR, which is y'all only stock cars. Now you've really got stock cars as a result.

It's kind of like that, right? Kind of like that. And also, and I think this is true in NASCAR too, in IndyCar, the talent level is through the roof. You know, you have all these guys that were on the Formula One track. that jumped to IndyCar because there's money in it now, and there's fame in it now, and now you can go from IndyCar to Formula One if you still want to.

But the cars are, particularly in Indianapolis, where they're qualifying at averaging 230 miles an hour, which are the speeds that you and I used to see back in the day. But IndyCar ripped itself in half. I lived through all that and covered all that in the late 90s. I say this all the time.

in terms of collegiate athletics, which is NASCAR made a lot of really bad decisions in the mid-2000s and ran a lot of people off. IndyCar ripped itself in half. I mean, killed the goose looking for golden eggs. And I always throw those out as cautionary tales.

I'm good, yeah. I'm petty enough that I hope that all of the professors that I had who said I could never – and the people I interviewed with for jobs who said I could never be on air because of the way I sounded. I'm petty enough to hope that they – Yeah, screw those people.

Yeah, and I throw these things out as cautionary tales to our friends in collegiate athletics because – All of these things are done with the assumption of your core audience is just going to – we can't do anything to run them off. Yeah. Yeah, you can.

You totally can. Or they age out. And so the question isn't, you know, what are you doing to make the gray-headed guys and the colored Blazers mad? The question is, what are you doing – to make the 20 year olds decide they want me to do something else.

And so it's, it's a really, I use it. I wrote when Oklahoma, Texas, when the sec, I wrote that, or no, it was during the, is when USC and UCLA went to the big time. I wrote that column, like be careful because you think, uh, They'll just stick around no matter what. But the reality is if it looks too far away from what they grew up loving, then they will 100% go find something else to do.

Yeah, what I worry about, I think that while everyone is so distracted by NIL and all that stuff, transfer portal and all that, I worry more about the calendar.

Because the season's getting too long. Okay. You know, the reality is that the ratings were up until they got to the national championship game with two of the biggest brands in the history of the sport, you know, in the game. And, you know, basically had two weeks between the semifinals and that.

And at this point, college football had been going on, if you go back to week zero, it's just the third weekend in August. So – you know, the reason that spring football games were a big deal is the same reason that the NFL draft became such a big deal, which is it's all you had, right? You had nothing from January 1st until Labor Day. And so you're talking about

your core audience when you start messing with the rhythms of their calendar. And now you're back in the championship game up into the middle of the NFL playoffs.

And you think that messing with January 1st, which they've been doing for years now, was not going to be that big of a deal, and people are kind of irritated with it. So those are the things that once you get to Saturdays in the fall, last season was, I thought, maybe the 2007 was the most entertaining regular season we've had in my lifetime of college football.

um but but but but but you know like any great movie if it goes on too long goes on too long that's a great that's a great yeah that's the part of it that i that i'm and some of that was selfish honestly when i when i got to vacation where i was like yeah man we would be done right now yeah um and and understanding that you know you and i both work for the company that that um uh you know that benefits from all this and i'm all for it but

it's going to take a minute for people to get used to it. And I just think you need to be careful when you start playing a championship game on the 22nd and 23rd and 24th of January. It's just getting long. That's a really good point. You've got to leave them hungry, right? And when the season is ending, while some teams are starting spring practice, There's an adjustment period there.

We'll see if everybody adjusts or not.

Yeah. I mean, listen, I was in Nashville a month ago and spent some time with Diego Pavia. I mean, that's it. I mean, you know, I write the bottom 10 for ESPN.com. I have written about New Mexico State football for 10 years, right?

And I knew how good Diego was at New Mexico State. And now he's the mayor of Nashville. Yeah, he is.

But he's been given an opportunity to do something. And it's interesting because, you know, I cover college baseball, too. And obviously, we're in the middle of the baseball postseason now. We're starting to crank it up. And... I remember going down to LSU when they put together their first real giant NIL class, the one that won the College World Series that year.

And I'm talking to these guys that came from – I mean, Skeens came from Air Force.

And I'm talking to the kid that was the winning pitcher in the championship game, the game that won the championship. He came from UCLA. And when I talked to them, Skeens did not want to leave Air Force. He loved that place. But he said to me, he said, you ever been to a game there? I'm like, yeah. He goes, how many people were at the game? I'm like, 40 people.

And, you know, when I talk to the kids from UCLA, they would play, you know, UCLA's really good at baseball. And when they would play at Jackie Robinson Ballpark on a Friday night against Stanford in a top 15 game, and there'd be 800 people there, and they'd go back to their apartment, and they'd see the highlight of the South Carolina-Kentucky game, and there's 9,000 people there.

No, no. I say it all the time. I went to Connecticut to work at ESPN at the Death Star, basically a year out of college. And the company, ESPN is so much different now than it was 30 years ago. People from all over the country. But back then, it was basically just me and a bunch of guys who'd gone to school at Syracuse and Columbia. And everyone treated me like a foreign exchange student.

and they're like, the NIL money's fine, but that's why I came here. That's what you want, yeah. Right, to me it's opportunity, but then there's the flip side of that, which is, all right, now if you're the guy, that's not getting to play now because the guy from UCLA and the guy from Air Force and all that came. Well, now you're exactly right.

I can go to Kentucky and turn them into a College World Series team, or I can go to a Dallas Baptist and still be a top-ten draft pick. So I think you're right. I think that we're seeing a giant market adjustment, and I think when the contracts come, because they're coming, all this is going to hopefully level out a little bit.

The part of it I didn't see coming because, quite frankly, I did not want a 14 playoff in the beginning, but I came around on it. My argument about the 14 playoff was it should be difficult to get into the postseason. If it's not difficult to get into the postseason, now you're the Stanley Cup playoffs and everybody's in. Now you're the NBA playoffs and everybody's in. What's the point? But

What we saw with an expanded playoff, even though I hate 12, I hate buys, that conversation's maybe for later. It opened up the conversation, you're exactly right, to us talking about all these other teams that we would not have been talking about otherwise. It's making people on the West Coast keep an eye on Indiana football.

And it's making people in the Midwest keep an eye on Ole Miss football. And even when it came to the Sun Belt or when it came to whomever, you've got to keep an eye on teams now.

Yep. And this is why you leave it alone. You know, if you expand to 16, fine. But this idea of, and I want to make sure I'm perfectly clear on this. If this thing is rigged so that X number of SEC teams always get in and X number of Big Ten teams, that's really great for Marty McGee. It's phenomenal for Marty. It's good for business. But for the overall health of college football...

The system's already pretty much rigged against Coastal Carolina, but now you're going to make it official, right? So I think that keeping – even if deep down we know it's probably not going to go down, the fact that we are watching games because a team might have the path that you're talking about, and the more teams that are in that conversation – the better off the sport is.

And what's interesting is when you talk to a Kirby Smart or you talk to a Stoops or you talk to these coaches that would benefit from that, what they worry about is, well, how does this affect Valdosta? How does it affect Youngstown?

They literally would speak loud and slow to me.

Um, I, you love politics, right?

I don't know. When you write a book about politics, the Trump era makes it worse, but yes, I'm not, I'm not, I hate it. I hate everything about it. I was a Senate page when I was in high school and I saw enough for me to go. Nope. You were in DC a Senate page. Yeah, I was a long time ago. Um, the, um, I got a pen right here on my wall. Mr. Senate page.

Like you couldn't understand? Like grinder sandwiches. So if I just did my job, they thought I had overcome some obstacle, right?

Yeah, well, it was just enough for me to go, no. It's like having an internship at a law firm, and you go, no, don't want to be a lawyer. You don't want to do that. Yeah, I'm not built for this. But I say this knowing that a lot of people just south of where you're sitting are going to probably send me ugly stuff. The Tennessee Statehouse specializes in bluster. They just do.

There's certain state houses that do that. That's their job. Their job is to get the constituents fired up and make it. But the reality is that this is going to be a national thing. It's going to be a national fight. There's going to be things that override whatever they say in the statehouse, the state capitol building, Capitol Hill, wherever in all these states.

At some point, it's going to become a federal deal.

No, it's coming. It's coming. There's too many people... on Capitol Hill that represent too many states that are homes to these powerful schools, that it benefits them to come up with something. And the reality is everybody's going to have to fall in line with it. But I 100% understand and I 100% appreciate the resolutions and the this is what it is and the so-and-so.

Yeah, no, no. So, yeah, it worked out for me.

But I think that this story isn't reported very much because people are just sick of it.

It's white noise. At some point, everyone's eyes glaze over. That's what I'm talking about. What I said a few minutes ago. What you can't do is you can't create a conversation that that's all it is. Once that conversation you're talking about starts to creep into Saturday afternoons, now we've got a problem because now that's the conversation. This time of year, whatever.

But once we hit Labor Day weekend, if this is what we're talking about, then that's when people are going to be like, you know what, this sucks, I'm going to play golf.

Man. The good news is it's a lot of people. People ask me that all the time, and I always say the number of jerks.

But, yeah. But, I mean, Sam Pittman.

is one of the nicest people around my life. He's just, well, all I ask of anyone, that's why I like you. All I ask of anyone is just be the genuine article. Like if you're a jerk, be a jerk. You know, if you're a nice guy, be a nice guy. You know, if you, if you, if you're a Bible thumper, thump that Bible, but don't, only do those things when the cameras are on and to be somebody else later.

And Sam Pittman is the same guy that you see on TV that you would run into at the airport or that you would see on his pontoon boat on the lake.

Right. They root for him.

You root for him. But Sam Pittman is – I mean, he's – Shane Beamer. And it's interesting because – Oh, really?

That's what I was going to say. And I'm a little biased because I've known Shane for a long time. You know, Marty played high school football against Shane. My dad was a Big East official, an ACC football official. So, I mean, Shane and I stood on sidelines together, you know, way back when. Um, I've known Shane forever, but Shane is, if Shane says he's going to do something, he's going to do it.

Um, but I think he is, um, but he also is very emotional. I mean, I was at the citrus bowl. I went to the citrus bowl.

That was a weird deal. But, yeah, but there's a lot of nice guys. But Pittman's the one. I mean, Pittman is the guy that literally if you had a 12-pack and you just said, I got a couple hours, he's the guy that if you could bring him into the room, you need to do it.

Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer is everything the opposite of what I just said about Sam Pittman.

I think I got what I really don't like is I don't I don't care for people who really love to tell me how to be a man or how to be a leader or how to be whatever. And I mean. Yeah, and then you have your – Phenomenal football mind. Phenomenal. But I just – that part to me, I don't need a lecture about, you know, here's my five points of how to be an honorable person.

I mean, the answer was Mike Leach. I mean, can't hardly talk to the guy. The thing about Leach was I went out to, I didn't know him really. I didn't know him at all when he was at Texas Tech, but I went to Pullman. If you Google me and Mike Leach, you'll get the story. I went to Pullman. They had told me I had 20 minutes with him and I stayed for three days.

Yeah, so for years on Saturday, we would lead into Daria and Mel with our buddies Daria Noka and Mel Kiper. And when Daria and Mel ended, I guess it was in 2024, all of a sudden everybody was like, Marty McGee, a show that quite frankly there were people at the time

And we drank all the rum in Pullman.

Yeah, Utah politics. And he knew I was not. But that last night, you know, he had this one bar he'd go to in Pullman and he would famously walk home. It was a couple of miles, walk through the woods. And the area around Pullman is stunningly beautiful. It is.

And he would walk through the woods to go home at two o'clock in the morning or whatever. And I'm like, coach, I'll just drive you home. Yeah, I got to go to Spokane, get on a plane in the morning. He and I sat in the driveway. Somewhere I have a recording, and I'll never share it with anyone, but I have it.

And we talked about everything from Richard Petty to the White House to the NFL National Anthem stuff, which is kind of the big topic at the time, which seems like 5,000 years ago, to football, to Geronimo. And I said nothing for hours. And then finally, the newspaper guy. like walks over to the rental car in the driveway. Hey, coach, here's your paper.

And that's when I was like, damn, I got to go. I want to get to Spokane and make my flight, coach. I got to get out of here. So, yeah, he was the one. He would just randomly text me something at 3 o'clock in the morning, and I would wake up the next morning and just – That's great.

I think that it's not any different than I think that's probably the situation in a lot of houses. I think that the parents might lean one way and the kids might lean another way. When you and I were growing up, you just voted however your parents told you to vote.

And I don't think that's the case anymore, primarily because of social media. I mean, kids are so much more politically aware, active, whatever, than they ever were. But I think that the way that you – the coaches that are able to navigate that are the ones that are willing to say, all right, I want to learn from these kids.

And on the flip side, I want to explain to them, they have real discussions about it. I mean, I remember talking to Gary Pinkle about that, you know, when there was all that political unrest, you know, in the state of Missouri and how he navigated that. I think they had a whole SEC story at 30 for 30 about it. Yeah. You know, Nick Saban has talked about it, about, you know, navigating the team.

didn't really want us on their radio i understand and we and we've been on now longer than i mean it's not even really close we've been on now we've been on since marty and i were talking today we we started doing a podcast no one listened to like more than a dozen years ago you've been on since 2015 you on the radio then we moved to saturday afternoon um like at three o'clock in the afternoon which the family really liked um and then we moved to saturday morning yeah

All these guys that navigate their teams through 2020. Yes. 2020 was it's easy to just go to the pandemic and forget about, you know, everything else that was going on. And it was it was an incredibly, incredibly divisive time. And it really, really kind of set the stage for all of this now. But to me, that's what it is. I mean, you know, and I used to see that. I talk about this all the time.

I mentioned I was a Senate page. I was a Senate page in the late 80s. And I was from South Carolina. So a lot of times, you know, I would be assigned to Strom Thurmond.

So I had both. But Strom was the guy that, you know, and I knew Strom's daughter. But Strom and Ted Kennedy was across the hallway. And a lot of nights, I mean a lot of nights, Ted Kennedy would come across the hallway after everyone had left, and he and Strom Thurmond would sit in there and have drinks and talk about stuff.

And all of this is while Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill were doing the same thing at the White House. You can't do it now. If you do it now, cable news cameras are going to catch you, and now you're a betrayer to the cause or whatever else. But I think that's the perfect illustration of – You don't have to agree, but can we have a discussion about it without immediately turning it into a fight?

And so I think the coaches who can navigate that as teachers, because most of these guys started as teachers. And so when they can sit in a room with 150 kids that come from a very different type of background, most of them, and probably are registered a very different way to vote. All right, let's have a discussion about that.

Can we talk about what this why I believe this or why you believe that or why we're why the nation is doing these things? And, you know, I think. I think that – I wish everyone could do that. And the reality is that no matter what side they're on, the politician's job now is to keep all of us pissed off. Their job is to keep all of us mad at each other all the time.

And so if you can sit in a room – yeah, if you can sit in a room and have a conversation without it automatically being a fight, then that's how you grow. And so I think that's how coaches do it.

No, it's just their job is to keep us all divided. It is, because it's good for business. It's great for business. I mean, you know, and I grew up in North Carolina, which has all been a very purple state. You know, another part I hate, too, and I don't like to talk about politics, but here we are.

One of the great disservices to the history of this nation is when they started painting the state solid red and solid blue. I live in North Carolina, the state's purple. Go back and look at the election results and go back. When I was growing up, we always had, you had Terry Sanford, you had Jesse Helms, right? We had two Republican governors in my entire life in North Carolina.

The reality is, is that it's a purple state. But when I go to Manhattan,

Everybody thinks it's not. The truth is in the middle. It's always been in the middle. And those who live in the middle usually end up making it work. At the very least, go in the middle and have a conversation. But it's just, man, I can't believe I'm talking about this.

No, it's fine. But I think that's the answer to your question. The answer to your question is how do – how does an old gray-headed coach who makes 12 million dollars a year talk about serious fundamental issues with a room full of kids who most of them come from very, very backgrounds and those things. I think that's it.

I think you walk into the door with an open mind and have those conversations. If you can't do that, then you probably shouldn't be.

I'll tell you a story about that. The hilarious thing is all of my friends know I'm not a morning person at all. And I co-host a morning show. But my family, I'm in a house of night people. We sleep in, but we work all night. And my jobs have mostly been like that.

Well, my take is a bigger take on Tar Heel football. And I wrote this column when Belichick was named head coach because I have literally lived in North Carolina my entire life except for I spent two years, my last two years of high school were in South Carolina, barely over the state line, and when I went to school in Tennessee. I was born in North Carolina, buried in North Carolina.

I am half a century old, and in my lifetime, North Carolina has won one ACC championship. My dad started officiating ACC football in 1981 and retired in 2009 and never saw North Carolina win an ACC championship football. So when I wrote my column when Belichick got the job, I said, it's going to be interesting to see how

Chapel Hill manages to take arguably the greatest coach in the history of the NFL and turn it into a solid 8-4 Gator Bowl season. That's what they're going to do. They're going to go to the Mayo Bowl. And what I didn't see coming was all this. Now, they might get into the season, and they might roll, and it might not matter.

But the reality is that the last time North Carolina won the conference, Lawrence Taylor was a linebacker.

And until they – I wrote a column 15 years ago for ESPN Magazine about these are the 10 programs that should be way better at football than they are, and I can't explain it. UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, you know, I had all these. But at the top of the list was North Carolina. And I put NC State in there too. It just doesn't make any sense that they're not great at football.

Yeah. They're not enjoying it very much. They're all just, you know, and what's interesting too is they're all having to make a decision right now because the basketball program is floundering.

And so they're having to make a decision, right? There's only so much money. And I'm the guy that used to own the bank of fill-in North Carolina town here, Monroe. And then that bank got sold to Bank of America, and now I'm a billionaire. So I've got to decide, where am I going to put my money? Am I going to fund this program with the girlfriend? No.

Who, by the way, would just build a $75 million football facility and still couldn't win the ACC. Brought Mack Brown back and still couldn't win the ACC. So do I put my money there or do I go get us a power forward? Or do I go get us a backcourt? Which, quite frankly, you can do much cheaper. And so I think that's where they all are. But I'll tell you this again. I was sitting here in Charlotte.

But my wife was so mad when I told her one night at dinner, I'd go, hey, they're thinking about moving Marty McGee to Saturday morning at 7 o'clock in the morning. Oh, my God. You know, Friday nights when we go out and it's not. Yeah, you're right. You're right. And so I didn't bring it up again. And later on, we're at dinner and she goes, what did they decide to do with the show?

If North Carolina wins 10 games and they play against Clemson in the ACC championship game and maybe have a chance to make the playoff or whatever, I guess none of that will matter. But right now it is –

I mean, I was – we all – That's where I spent most of my childhood. I grew up a North Carolina State fan. That's got nothing to do with how I feel about this. It's just – it is what it is. And I've seen the movie so many times. And, you know, it's – this just isn't the movie I was expecting to watch. But the end result will probably be the same.

They'll be back here in Charlotte for the Duke's Mayo Bowl. And God bless them.

Well, my buddy Seth Wickersham, our co-worker at ESPN, who's written so many ridiculously great stories and books about him. I keep telling him this is the book I actually want to receive.

I feel like she would probably sign up for that. My daughter and I just watched The Secret Lives of the Mormon Wives.

They'll load up Mood of Chapel Hill and shoot that right now.

A little uncomfortable watching it with your daughter. I'll say that. My daughter and I have always picked one trash... reality show, and we'd watch it together. And this is no slight to my friends at Hulu because they know what that show is, and it's a huge hit. But we used to watch Selling Sunset. I saw that.

I thought that was a good show. I saw one of the twins at the Miami Grand Prix and took a selfie with him. We sent it to my daughter, and he goes, you watch that show with your daughter? I'm like, yeah.

No, it's upswing, and it's in so much better shape now than it was in 2019. I tell everyone it's hard to try to put a positive spin on the pandemic. But the pandemic, NASCAR wisely used to grease the rails on trying stuff, right? Dark tracks and stuff like that, yeah.

They were like, all right, we're going to run back-to-back races to so-and-so, and we're going to run a Wednesday night race in Martinsville. And ever since then, there's been a willingness to try stuff. Listen, I was born, and I will be buried in Rockingham, North Carolina. And they just ran trucks in Xfinity there a few weeks ago.

I said they decided to move it to 7 a.m. She's what are they going to do it? I go, they did it five weeks ago.

That track literally had a tree growing up through the backstretch. a couple years ago. So they just ran the All-Star Race at North Wilkesboro. I just voted on the NASCAR Hall of Fame this week.

No, Harry Gant.

Handsome Harry. But yeah, but it's... But they... And it goes back to what we were talking about earlier.

NASCAR has finally, after years of trying to rip its roots out of the ground, they have finally started to figure out the balance between you can go run a street race in Chicago or a street race in Mexico City, which they're going to do, if you balance it with going to North Wilkesboro and going to Rockingham. And running more short track races.

And so I think that it teaches people about the history of the sport as opposed to trying to bury it under the ground like they did for years. And so, yes. Will it ever go back to 1997? No.

OK, you know, my my family, my family sleeps in.

Yeah, and I rode that wave. I literally started at ESPN. I started ESPN the week Jeff Gordon won the first Brickyard 400. That's 96, right? We started a nightly motorsports show, and I've been riding that wave ever since. But 100%, I would go all the way to 2006, 2007 when the market crashed. The business crashed. But, yeah, they're getting there.

So I come home from the show at 1030 in the morning or whatever. And I'm usually waking everybody up.

They'll never get back to where they were, but they're in way better shape than they were even just five years ago, let alone 10, 15 years ago.

Yeah. And there is a I've already seen it, but I think it drops next week or this weekend. There's a on Amazon Prime. There's a four part Earnhardt documentary just titled Earnhardt. And it's executive produced by Ron Howard. And it is so good. And I mean, it's really, really good. And it's but yeah, it takes you back to that day. And it's yeah. You know, I wasn't around when Kennedy died.

But still there's moments in your life where it's like everything before something happened, everything after something happened. And February 18, 2001 for a lot of us is that day. And that was personally, professionally, all of that for me. People always talk about the legacy of Dale Earnhardt. And it's the intimidator and the man in black and all that stuff.

But no one has died in a top three NASCAR national series since he did that day.

I almost quit. I almost quit. Did you really? Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin, Tony Roper. And it was an IndyCar Formula One. I was covering funerals monthly. And I looked at my wife and I go, I can't do this. I'm going to cover a sport where people don't die. And then after Earnhardt died, when Superman died, suddenly everybody went, oh.

Maybe we should change some stuff. But, yeah, that was one of the most pivotal days in the history of sports, let alone motorsports.

Hey, congratulations on the new show, and apparently you're not co-hosting a political podcast.

You did the impossible. All right, thanks.

I got in trouble. Rightfully so. Marty and I were getting feedback sometimes. Hey, you have to at least occasionally. If LeBron drops 64 on Friday night, you probably should mention it on Saturday morning. There was one week where you subbed for Marty. And you and I literally talked about county fairs.

I remember that. It was awesome, but that was the one time where they were like, okay, you literally did not mention sports for two hours. I'm like, okay, you know what? That's a fair.

I appreciate it in return. When I was in the process of trying to convince people to let us do radio, you guys had me on your show. It kind of helped me. I made this transition. The first half of my career, I was a producer. I was on the producer track and really enjoyed it. I felt like I was pretty good at it. Then I started writing for USP in the magazine on the side.

I would produce these features and Like say I'm producing a two and a half minute story about Jeff Gordon from RPM Tonight, you know, back in the day. And I would call ESPN the magazine and go, I interviewed Jeff Gordon for an hour and we're going to use, we're going to use two and a half minutes. And so let me write something.

And so, and then when I, when I left ESPN for a minute and when I came back and I, as a writer, just strictly as a writer, no longer as a producer, they started putting me on some shows, but it was because of guys like you that would let me go on their shows and prove that I could talk, you know,

Yeah, it's not even close. And I think it's for the globe. And I wrote this column a few years ago. And there are stretches where this isn't going to happen. But for the most part, it's happened every Memorial Day Sunday for the last several decades, which is you start with the Grand Prix of Monaco in the morning, Formula One, and then you have the Indianapolis 500.

And those are two races that are watched all over the world.

And then you have the I still call it the World 600, but the Cold 600 here in Charlotte, where I live, is that night. And so, yeah, auto racing starts before breakfast and it goes until way after dinner.

And I think most people are like that because the reality is that the Monaco race is not a great race. These cars weren't built to race on the streets, certainly not the streets of this winding, but the spectacle of it is second to none. And then Indianapolis... I think it's the greatest race in the world and has become a phenomenal race over the last decade and a half.

It used to be an endurance race. Now it's a race race. Then you have the Coke 600 on Sunday. What's cool is, for example, Sunday morning, So McLaren, who's dominating Formula 1 this year, McLaren also fields Indy cars. And so I'll be watching the Monaco Grand Prix with the McLaren guys from Indianapolis.

And then later on, my colleague Nate Saunders will be watching the Indy 500 with the McLaren guys as they're packing up in Monaco. And then they'll all watch the Coke 600. That's what's changed over the last 30 years is – All of these racers watch different types of racing. When I first came along, you had to make a choice.

Are you an NHRA guy or a NASCAR guy or a Formula One guy or an IndyCar guy? And now there's so much cross-pollination, everybody watches all of it. And that part to me, yeah, I don't think it's even close. It's the biggest day of racing in the world.

Oh, yeah. And you mentioned COVID. That's all it is. What people don't realize is that Netflix Formula One show, which won a Sports Emmy just as we were recording this again, that show had existed for a couple of years before COVID and no one watched it.

When everyone was stuck at home for COVID, they're just looking for something to binge. And people started watching it. And the attraction of Formula One has always been two things. It's the spectacle of it. The cars are phenomenal. They don't race particularly well against each other. Like, there's not really a show.

But the cars have always been the most technologically advanced machines on the planet.

Yeah, they're phenomenal. But the other part is the soap opera. And, you know, when I first started working at ESPN in the 90s, it was Michael Schumacher versus Damon Hill. And I just saw Damon Hill in Miami at the Formula One race a few weeks ago, and we were talking about this. And the racing itself, with the exception of a couple of races, weren't great.

But the drama, the story of Formula One was what happened from Monday morning to... all the way up to the green flag and it was this guy doesn't like that guy or this guy you know we had spy gate and we had people stealing secrets and guys changing teams and taking technological you know secrets from one of the other all this stuff and so What the Netflix show does is it underlines all that.

It highlights all that. And it takes these robotronic seeming people and gives them personalities. And so, yeah, the reality is that's what they love. And it's also they're good looking. I was in Miami, man. It was 16-year-old girls as far as you could see.

And they had lined the paddock and were just screaming. That's crazy. Screaming every time these drivers came out. And that's just not, that's not something I've ever seen.

Yeah. So that weekend, when we did Marty and McGee, I was in Miami for the Formula One event. Marty was at the Derby.

And Marty was like, well, I'm at the Derby where the most beautiful people in the world are. I go, oh. I don't know if that's true anymore. You know, and there were a lot of people that were at the Derby on Saturday or in Miami on Sunday. And it was like, you know, Timothee Chalamet and, you know, he's dating one of the Jenners and she was there. And it was funny that I have a 20-year-old daughter.

And I'm in the paddock just kind of walking around. Honestly, I'm just creepily stalking famous people. Like, all right, who's here and who's not? And seeing NFL guys, guys I covered in college in the SEC or NFL now and seeing it was great. But I would take a picture. and texted to my daughter. I'm like, who is this? Well, that's so-and-so. She has 22 million Instagram followers. Oh, okay.

But you know, there was a lot of that.

It was a few years ago. In fact, it was 2021 because it was my first post-COVID trip or during COVID trip. And it was the Formula One opener was in Abu Dhabi. But they were having this event in Beverly Hills. So they sent me and Marty to Beverly Hills, and we drove around a $300,000 Aston Martin.

And they had a pop-up drive-in movie theater on the roof of this parking deck at this swanky mall in Beverly Hills. And Hollywood Hills all around us and the whole thing. Well, Marty and I are 6, 7 o'clock in the morning on this rooftop sitting in his car. All these other cars start pulling up. And it looked like Tokyo Drift, Fast and Furious. Well, I'm posting pictures or whatever on Instagram.

My daughter's like, Dad, you don't understand. This girl that's in this car next to you, she's so-and-so and so-and-so. I'm like, okay. But, yeah, they kind of rule the world now. At the SEC Championship, certainly at the college football playoff, there will be a box of these people that all look like they were made in an AI machine And it's the influencers. It's a thing.

I would have tried to do that back in the day.

I can't influence the people in my house. That's true. Let alone 3 million people in Tokyo.