Ryan Dahl

And in particular, when you need to interoperate with different systems, right. When you need to pull in the AWS, uh, SDK, right. Like you're, there's just some things that you are not going to rewrite. And, uh, You know, I think we've found a middle ground here with like NPM specifiers where, you know, we're still staying true to the ESM spec.

And in particular, when you need to interoperate with different systems, right. When you need to pull in the AWS, uh, SDK, right. Like you're, there's just some things that you are not going to rewrite. And, uh, You know, I think we've found a middle ground here with like NPM specifiers where, you know, we're still staying true to the ESM spec.

These are still URLs, URIs in that like it's NPM colon express. Yet, you know, in order to pull in NPM packages, it's much more complicated than the HEP specifiers. I mean, the beauty of the original DenoVision was like, oh, this dead simple resolution scheme that like really makes it easy to interoperate with If people implemented this, it makes it very easy to interoperate with stuff.

These are still URLs, URIs in that like it's NPM colon express. Yet, you know, in order to pull in NPM packages, it's much more complicated than the HEP specifiers. I mean, the beauty of the original DenoVision was like, oh, this dead simple resolution scheme that like really makes it easy to interoperate with If people implemented this, it makes it very easy to interoperate with stuff.

And yeah, frankly, the reality is like that works to some scale. But, you know, we're interested in making software for lots of people. And, you know, I'm not satisfied working on software. a runtime that 500 people can use for small scripts. I really want to make software for millions of people. And server-side JavaScript is truly millions of people.

And yeah, frankly, the reality is like that works to some scale. But, you know, we're interested in making software for lots of people. And, you know, I'm not satisfied working on software. a runtime that 500 people can use for small scripts. I really want to make software for millions of people. And server-side JavaScript is truly millions of people.

And in order to allow those people to really level up JavaScript, I'm pretty convinced that you need to be able to pull in NPM modules and understand package JSON and implement the node built-in modules in order to make any progress. Otherwise, you just face this boil-the-ocean problem.

And in order to allow those people to really level up JavaScript, I'm pretty convinced that you need to be able to pull in NPM modules and understand package JSON and implement the node built-in modules in order to make any progress. Otherwise, you just face this boil-the-ocean problem.

I'm sure that's possible, but I am still pretty adamant that this new base infrastructure that we've built for Deno, the Rust code base that we have, the secure by default capabilities, the native TypeScript support, the fact that we have all these built infrastructure these web standard APIs, the fact that it's all in one tool chain, right? It's literally a single executable that

I'm sure that's possible, but I am still pretty adamant that this new base infrastructure that we've built for Deno, the Rust code base that we have, the secure by default capabilities, the native TypeScript support, the fact that we have all these built infrastructure these web standard APIs, the fact that it's all in one tool chain, right? It's literally a single executable that

you know, has a LSP, has code formatting, has linting. I'm not willing to sit in committees for, you know, 13 years trying to make all of that stuff happen. You know, I think the failure mode of Deno might be that it ultimately ends up being an R&D effort because, you know, Node these days like looks at what we do and says, oh, okay, actually, that's a good idea. Let's kind of pull it.

you know, has a LSP, has code formatting, has linting. I'm not willing to sit in committees for, you know, 13 years trying to make all of that stuff happen. You know, I think the failure mode of Deno might be that it ultimately ends up being an R&D effort because, you know, Node these days like looks at what we do and says, oh, okay, actually, that's a good idea. Let's kind of pull it.

pull this in like the native TypeScript support. But I am bullish on what we're doing. I think it is very useful to have dino.exe that you can hand to not just deep JavaScript developers that know what Prettier is and know how to configure, how to get started with the project, but can hand it to some random Java developer or somebody coming from PHP or whatever. Just allow them to get started

pull this in like the native TypeScript support. But I am bullish on what we're doing. I think it is very useful to have dino.exe that you can hand to not just deep JavaScript developers that know what Prettier is and know how to configure, how to get started with the project, but can hand it to some random Java developer or somebody coming from PHP or whatever. Just allow them to get started

very easily. And I think this idea of striving for simplicity is Well, let's put it this way. JavaScript, I continue to believe, is not like other programming languages. It is something like the default programming language because so much of human infrastructure is built on the web. And because JavaScript is like HTTP or CSS or HTML, it is one of the protocols of the web.

very easily. And I think this idea of striving for simplicity is Well, let's put it this way. JavaScript, I continue to believe, is not like other programming languages. It is something like the default programming language because so much of human infrastructure is built on the web. And because JavaScript is like HTTP or CSS or HTML, it is one of the protocols of the web.

It has a future that you can't necessarily say about Swift necessarily. Lots of people use Swift. A lot of infrastructure is built on Swift, but it's not like JavaScript. JavaScript will be here five years from now, if not 10, if not 20, if not... you know, forever. It might, this may be like, like really deeply embedded in human, in humanity at this point.

It has a future that you can't necessarily say about Swift necessarily. Lots of people use Swift. A lot of infrastructure is built on Swift, but it's not like JavaScript. JavaScript will be here five years from now, if not 10, if not 20, if not... you know, forever. It might, this may be like, like really deeply embedded in human, in humanity at this point.

And, uh, I think it's, I think it is worth the effort to try to strive and make this simple and, you know, allow server side JavaScript, which obviously is, is useful to have the fetch API to, to use, use the same APIs that are in the browser to use ES modules, right? Like they're, they're,

And, uh, I think it's, I think it is worth the effort to try to strive and make this simple and, you know, allow server side JavaScript, which obviously is, is useful to have the fetch API to, to use, use the same APIs that are in the browser to use ES modules, right? Like they're, they're,