Ryan Coogler
Appearances
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Yeah. And what that took. as it relates to camaraderie with us, you know what I mean? A decision had to be made, you know what I'm saying? And when you making a movie about American blues music, you know what I'm saying? Like the Irish folks gotta have a place in that, you know what I mean? Like they were there.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Well, I mean, they cross the street from each other. Yeah, it's the white side of the street and the black side, yeah.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
You know, the reality is they were accepted in the black community. You know, how he found out was ironic. Like, you know, 10 years or so back, we were doing 23andMe, you know, and obviously they in the news a lot lately I've been seeing. But, you know, everybody was trying to find out their heritage. And for foundational black people, you know, we was jumping on it, right?
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Because of, you know, all of the indignities To our ancestors, at the top of it was the deliberate splitting of ethnic groups through the transatlantic slave trade to quell rebellions that were constantly happening. You know, so as a result of that, you know, we don't know what ethnic group we're from. I spat in the tube and, you know, like, checked it out, and they just came back.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
It came back like 86% West African. And I was like, oh, man, that doesn't tell me what I—like, I knew that. I know that, yeah. And I shared it with Chadwick Balsman when we met. And he said, hey, man, check out African Ancestry because they do it the proper way where you can really find out, you know, some answers to these questions. And I did mine, and my wife— whose father is African-American.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Her mom is from the Philippines. You know what I'm saying? So her pops takes the test. He tests his X chromosome and his Y chromosome, right? His X chromosome comes back West African. Guess what his Y chromosome comes back? Chinese. Han Chinese. You know, this man is in his 90s. He opened that packet up and said, like, what the, you know what I mean? And where is he from? He was born in Chicago.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Where were his parents from? From Mississippi.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
So we started digging into it. You know what I'm saying? You know, we find out that, you know, my wife's black dad comes from these people. The erasure. You know, they were there. You know, that is not, you know, like what I just said, the only thing false in this movie is the vampires. You know what I'm saying? You know, they were absolutely there.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
They were. They were. But we had to transplant them. And then we used digital technology to replicate them at times.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Well, I had a moment before, like... When I was still trying, when I was still, when I didn't have a movie in my head just yet, but I was dealing with a lot of the elements. I was working on Panther 2 and I was in Byron, Georgia. And I looked out of the window when my team was driving me to the hotel and I saw my first cotton field in person.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Man, it really messed me up, man. I told him to pull over, you know, because I was already sad and contemplative, you know what I mean? And I got out the car and walked into it and, you know, took a piece. I took a piece home. I still got it at home now. But, you know, the fact that I had been at this age and done all that I'd done and had never seen, you know, I wear cotton every day.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
You know, and I know the story of my people and, you know, the fact that, um, what for many years has been the most powerful empire in the world, sentenced them to that being their life, working in these cash crop fields. And looking at it, seeing it for the first time, it messed me up. And I knew I wasn't done with it.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Man, he played all of it, man. He was big on Albert King. He was big on Muddy. He was big on Howlin' Wolf. He was big on Coco Taylor. Big on John Lee Hooker. Sonny Boy Williamson, Mississippi Fred McDowell. He was big on all of them, man.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I just liked being with him. I wasn't thinking about the music. I associated it with him. And at that time, the blues wasn't for, I didn't think the blues was for me. I didn't think it was mine. It was just all man's. And to be honest with you, I thought the blues was for white people. You know what I'm saying? Because at that time,
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
You know, you had, like, the movie The Blues Brothers, which I hadn't seen, but, you know, on the poster, it was these white dudes with these hats. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know? And so I was like, okay, you know, the blues is for all black people, and it's for white people. You know what I'm saying? Because I was listening to Tupac, and what's crazy is my favorite song...
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
group and music video was Bone Thugs Crossroads not even knowing not even knowing that like you know like the crossroads is like you know what I'm saying like that's a blues thing you know what I mean like it made its way in the Cleveland Gangsta Rap but it was really that you know but I didn't know I was a kid and it took my uncle dying and then me listening to the music without him anymore to explain it to me
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
But I'm trying to hang on to every word, trying to see if I could get a clue about my uncle's life or why he liked this stuff. You know what I'm saying? And then, boom, I realized the brilliance of it. This was the base that everything came out of.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Buddy Guy was the last... musician my uncle would go see consistently. You know, he would get dressed up and go to his concerts, like up to his death. So when I was finishing up the script, I had this idea when I got to those last few scenes, I was like, oh man, wouldn't it be cool if, like wouldn't my uncle get a kick out of Buddy Guy being in this movie, you know? So I kind of got that.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I kind of had that idea. And I talked to my casting director, Francine Masler, and my producers, Zanji and Sev, and said, I want to try to get Buddy Guy in this movie. You know, everybody kind of panicked a little bit, you know, but then we got into it. And Zinzi and I went out there and went to his restaurant, Blues Club Legends.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I fully expected, but he got to say, hey, man, it's nice to meet you, kid, but I'm not being in a movie. You know what I mean? Like, I'm good. You know, I'm almost 90 years old, bro. You know, like, I don't have time for that. And Saul was prepared for that. But his kids, man, they were smiling at me. You know, and I got to sit down.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
He's like, look, you know, I don't know who you are or what you do, but my grandkids tell me I should sit with you and I should hear you out. You know, and I've decided, you know, whatever you need from me, because they speak so highly of you, you know, I'm in.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Have you guys talked about it? He has. We showed it to him in Chicago.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
He gave it a stamp of approval, you know, because that was his life, man. He was a sharecropper in Louisiana and had to make the decision to leave home. And he has so many beautiful stories, but a lot of them are heartbreaking, man. Like he wears polka dots, polka dot suits, polka dot guitars. And I asked him why.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And he said when he left home to become a blues musician, he told his mom he was going to make enough money to buy her a polka dot Cadillac. You know, and she passed away before he could do it. So the polka dots became his trademark. You know what I'm saying? And just that story of him having, like me imagining this nearly 90-year-old man having to explain to his mom, hey, I'm going to leave home.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I'm going to try to go make it with this guitar. You know, while she's in what was a slave shack in Louisiana. You know what I mean? Like sharecropping. You know, and he's here in 2025 completely lucid telling me all about it.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I appreciate you having me. I'm really thrilled to be here.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I was born in the wake of the military defeat of the Black Panthers. So that dream of a better life in the West, you know, that was gone.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
No, I grew up. Look, the first movie I seen in theaters was Boys in the Hood, you know, which, which, which, which, you know, I was five years old. My dad took me to see that movie. And, you know, I was that was what was happening, you know, down the highway five from us. You know, I was four years old.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I might have been actually five. Yeah. I was born in 86. I think that movie came out in 91. Yeah, I was five years old. My dad was a dad in his 20s. He heard that he had just lost his father before I was born. My mom's dad died before I was born. Both my parents' fathers died within two weeks of each other. Right after they got married.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And, you know, I heard that this was a movie black fathers should text their sons to. So he took me, you know. Did the same thing with Malcolm X like six months later.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I remember the whole movie. My memory with movies is pretty solid. Yeah, I remember all of it. I saw Malcolm X shortly after. It was really ironic because we just premiered Sinners in that same room at that same theater. And my dad sat in the same row.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I was a mess. Yeah, I was a mess the whole night. Yeah, I was a mess the whole night. It's my favorite screening of anything I ever made.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Great question. The film deals with dichotomy, as I mentioned, and I was born into a family with loads of twins, specifically like my mom's older sisters who are identical, my Auntie Marilyn and my Auntie Carolyn.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Oh, yeah. My whole life. Like, I can't, like, my aunts have always been around. One of them was my godmother, you know. So they always been a part of my life. The dynamic between them and the stories, you know, they're in their 70s now and they live next door to each other.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
But the stories, man, of, like, them beating people up and, you know, like, the fact that they can't live with each other, they can't live without, they're constantly arguing. You know, the games they would play with people when people couldn't tell them apart. And the fact that us and our family always could.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
We could turn our backs and feel one of them come into the room and know which one it was. You know what I'm saying? So it was something that I was always interested in exploring. And it felt mythical. The other thing is like identical twins are kind of always outlaws. You know, they're kind of always local celebrities. And there's always like a level of othering that happens with them.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
So that wasn't totally accurate. I suffered a lot of injuries, like broke all type of bones. But injuries didn't take me out. I was actually healthy when I stopped, which was more difficult than if I wouldn't have been, I think. Because I made the decision to stop playing when I could have kept playing.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I think my heart was in filmmaking more, and... I knew I wanted to make films while I was young, you know, because I felt like young people weren't represented in the industry behind the camera. You know, like I could feel it in the movies. Whenever I watch a movie about a young person, I was like, man, I don't know if this is accurate.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
You know, and I realized, oh, yeah, man, like, you know, the average age for somebody directing something is... a lot higher than these characters they portray. And, you know, for me, you know, I wanted to try to get going early. I had this instinct that I should try to, I got something to say now, if that makes sense.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
yes but to be honest with you it would have been more of a risk to not make it the movie was kind of on my heart and when you have something uh that clear for me uh it's a rare thing and and i had this this idea and it was very uh I will go back to say, I didn't put anything on hold for this. It was more... You know, that last Panther film took a lot of time.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Yeah, yeah, one of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, one of them, for sure. I wanted to contribute while I still was young. That was all. And I realized that I liked the movies by young filmmakers. I remember watching Mean Streets and saying, oh, yeah, this is a different Scorsese than...
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
uh think than goodfellas or or or departed you know what i'm saying i just feels like i can feel his youth you know what i'm saying or uh or do the right thing you know versus black clansmen you know i'm saying both both both great movies but like it's a different spike movies made by young people are almost always really dynamic that they youth and they optimism and they and they and they
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
It kind of infects the cinema. So I wanted to do that, you know, like, and it was like, damn, like I could keep playing football and see how long it takes me. But I had a feeling that it would be a while if I kept pursuing ball, you know, that I could play for a little bit more.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I mean, it's some truth. Some of those articles, I haven't seen any that were totally accurate. But the thing is, those terms are not new terms. They're not unique. I will say they are unique, but there are other filmmakers out there in the world who have not made as much money as I have at the box office, who've had these terms for a long time.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
It's not that unique, you know, for me to have asked for these terms and for me to have received them, right? You know, I wrote the script on spec. My production company has made some really incredible movies in the past, you know, and there was no shortage of companies that wanted to work with us, thankfully. You know what I mean? Like, for me, the film was so personal and about my family.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And, you know, 100 years ago, my family were sharecroppers. A hundred years before that, they were in a different type of situation, if you catch what I'm saying. So for me, that was something that I stood on, you know, that my company stood on, you know. And I was so thrilled that Warner Brothers was comfortable with us standing on that and saw value in this project.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And I have to imagine there were some people that were upset about it, you know what I mean? Yeah.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I wouldn't rule anything out. But that was not the reason. The reason for me was just this story that I wanted to... You listed the films that I've made before this. I made these movies when I was very young and they came at a steep price. I was not there when my uncle died because I was making a movie. I miss I miss so much, you know, making these movies before I was 40 years old.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And they've done well over two billion dollars at the box office. You understand? And I will never own any of these movies. The next movie I make, Black Panther 3, I will not own that. Disney won't own that. You know, it was time for me to own this.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Thank you for watching and thank you for talking about it and bringing your brilliant expertise to it. I'm looking forward to folks hearing it.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
You know, it took more time than any of us had anticipated it taking. You know, those movies tend to take about two years. You know, this one took four because of... The last Black Panther film, yeah. Yeah, Black Panther were kind of favorite. It was because of the tragic passing of Chadwick Boseman, rest in peace. The global pandemic happened.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And in making those films, man, like, there's so much interest. There's so many people involved. There's so many industries that are around.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Yes, yes, yes. Because, you know, and it is... I'm not complaining about it, but there is a... a lot of pressure around those movies. And I just made two back to back. So I was coming off of both of those projects, knowing there was no way I was gonna do another one next. I was gonna have to do something different before I came back to that.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
But for me, I got hit by almost like a bolt of lightning.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
This movie was like all about dichotomy, you know, and that's something that I've been dealing with my whole life. You know, this feeling of not totally fitting in or things not totally squaring with each other. You know, like coming up, I was black, I was from Oakland, I was middle-class, and I was in these neighborhoods where my parents were kind of outliers.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
They got married young and they went to college, but they stayed in their neighborhood, you know? So I constantly, as a kid, would feel like I was living in two different worlds. It was a dichotomy there. And I took the students serious. I was like a big old giant nerd. But I was also like a very, very serious athlete, you know.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And where I'm from, to be an athlete, you're like adjacent to street culture. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, you get cool points in the streets when you're good at football or basketball or whatever. or running track like I was. I was also raised Christian. I was raised Baptist in the black Baptist tradition. You know what I'm saying? But I was going to Catholic school.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
So I was around these like two very different types of Christianity and trying to reckon, you know what I mean, reckon with that on a daily basis. And it made me very sensitive to themes of identity, you know, and the dichotomy as an idea.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
He says, and you're going to have mine.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I mean, I'll be honest with you. To me, allegory, metaphor, all these things, I'm not going to tell you that they're not present in my work, right? But... I was not, in this case with this project, I was not being conscious of it. I was trying to communicate a feeling through cinematic language.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And the reality is, as I've gotten older in this business and in this craft, I realized that if I can make something true, it's up to the viewer to draw those parallels. You take the thing and you analyze it. And in your analysis, you might project your own experiences, your own knowledge, you know what I'm saying?
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And you might draw certain parallels that weren't the parallels that I was intending, you know?
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Yeah, I love vampires, man. I love horror fiction. I love horror movies. I love fantasy. I was raised around a lot of organized religion. And vampires intersect with all of that. You know what I mean? I also grew up in Oakland, which is... very dominated by street culture, you know.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And, you know, all these things, like I find vampires, they pull from all of that in terms of supernatural creatures, right? And I thought when the idea came to me for this movie, I thought about other supernatural creatures as a thing that they confront at the juke joint. I went down the line. I thought about werewolves. I thought about zombies.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I thought about shapeshifters, which in some indigenous cultures might be referred to as skinwalkers. I went through the whole Rolodex. And I kept coming back to vampires because of everything that the vampire implies in public consciousness. You know, vampires, it's not a steadfast rule, but it's pretty commonly associated with sensuality.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Vampires are expected to be sexy, usually expected to be fashionable, usually expected to be knowledgeable, usually expected to be very powerful. It's not... thought of as wrong if a vampire is converted to vampirism, but they maintain a human personality, you know, the human memories. It's a fascinating premise.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
You know, you'll see a version of this, you know what I mean, almost in every culture. And to me, you know, like that is just like a fascinating thing. If I'm trying to have a conversation about our common humanity, you know, like which for me, you know, this movie is about, you know, and, you know, what better to contrast, you
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
You know, oh, the other piece that the vampire involves is the Faustian deal. I was very interested in that.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Robert Johnson is who's most associated with that fable. And there's this tradition of things being taken. You know what I mean? Songs being sung over and over again, you know, by black people, you know. And then it was eventually done by white people. And because it was such an awfully racist time when they built this industry,
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
genre was kind of born out of this idea like where where where a black person would sing a song and and you're talking about a back-breaking form of apartheid you know at this time and a black person sings a song white person comes seems the same song same lyrics same uh same rhythm same music and they will say all right the black person's song that is a race record we're gonna we're gonna sell that as a race record this song is rock and roll
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
You know what I mean? We're going to shut out his rock and roll. Like that concept, you know, and imagine me in 2025 saying, hey, I'm going to make a genre movie. Not even understanding that classification of art and how some art is above other art. You know what I'm saying? You know, it's a period drama. Oh, this is a genre movie.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
You know, I realized, oh man, my people have been at war with this, you know, from the beginning. This has been a tool kind of lobbied against us, you know? So for me, The vampire was a creature who was like human adjacent, who was human at some point, you know, became something else. But through their advanced age, they could see society for what it was.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
I think it's more frightening when the film is about blues music, which is storytelling, but it's also a music that I think was made to help a people who are constantly under attack, to help them cope, to help them feel better, and to remind them that they were human. You know what I mean? To remind them. And that's what the music is.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
And for me, to have a creature who's incredibly powerful, who was human at a time, who is in pain, you know, and who needs to cope in a way that only a community can give him. If I can make a film where you're afraid of this guy, you know what I mean? But that's really what's going on with him. I thought about it after I wrote it, and I said, oh, man, who does he lie to? And who is he honest with?
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
Because for me, it's very clear that he identifies with these people.
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
He identifies with them. And that connection between what we experienced, we being African-Americans, foundational African-Americans who experienced under the forcible remove from the continent of Africa and placement, you know what I mean, in the Americas and the systems that were built after that, you know, our experience and the experience of the Irish people being forced to work
Fresh Air
Ryan Coogler Paid A Steep Price For The Films He Made
you know, land that has immeasurable abundance and wealth, but being denied that. Yeah, so I mean like the connections between the two cultures are really obvious to spot, you know, but also in the history here in the States, It's very complicated. You know what I mean? Like, you know, because of because of the mobility of certain immigrants that, you know, the ability to become white.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Bro, I got nothing, man. I got a humble movie. You know what I mean? Coming to theaters April 18th. Buddy. That's about it, bro.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
They're going to say a bunch of horrible words at you if you don't. You know what I mean? So look, bro, I'm like 27, 28 years old. Because Fruitville was my first movie and that was about my hometown. I knew what the Bay Area was. I knew the back of my hand. So it wasn't a concern. But for Creed, I freaked out, bro. Because I realized, oh my God, this responsibility is on my shoulders.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
So one of the first things I did was I took my locations manager and my teamster, my head of the teamsters, I took them to the side, blocked out three hours. I got a map of greater Philadelphia, like a big proper map, like the size of your ground. And I spent two and a half hours with them and just like, what's this neighborhood called? Why is it called that? Who is here?
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
You know what I'm saying? Where do I go if I want a cheesesteak? Where do I go if I want to learn how to box? You know what I mean? We went through it for two and a half hours, marked up the whole calendar. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then I remember our head of travel, she was a black Philadelphian. You know what I'm saying, son?
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I brought her in and was like, hey man, tell me about Philly. You know what I mean? Like, you know, where are you from? Who's from over here? What's going on over there? You know, I got this scene with bikes. Where do I go to do that? You know, like, so from there I had like, I feel like I had a base understanding. I took a picture of that map And I had it on my phone.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
And I went and scoured and went to these places. You know what I'm saying? And for me, it was the same thing for Clarksdale, Mississippi. You know, Ludwig and my composer and I, we went.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
um on the blues trail and um and we spent days in these places you know we ended up shooting uh uh in new orleans which is you know which is you know very very close you know like um yeah but but all of the defining characteristics of the delta you know um we made sure we were steeped in it especially my production designer hannah buechler you know so that we knew
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
uh uh how not to to to you know what not to shoot in louisiana you know i'm saying in order to not not give ourselves up talk about our bfx supervisors to make sure we can maintain the uh the the the structural integrity of the landscape you know you know what i mean and you know so all of those things all of those things matter man you know i'm saying because like you know you don't get
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
You don't get this music and this culture and these types of people without the place. You know what I'm saying? Like the place is in constant call and response with the people that are there. You know what I'm saying?
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Man, you know, it's funny, bro. There's a book that talks about this in depth called Deep Blues by Robert Palmer. And it's a lot of books on Robert Johnson. But what I found out that was so fascinating was that he was not the first person to say this. There was a guitarist before him named Tommy Johnson, who was actually the guy who said, hey, I saw him on Salt of the Devil.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
He taught me how to play the guitar. He would go around with a rabbit's foot, you know what I mean? And he would play, and he made some incredible songs. Robert Johnson kind of stole his story, you know? Okay. And when he did that, people knew he was kind of like saying he was the next Tommy Johnson, you know what I'm saying? And it was a lot of...
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
uh, a lot written about the fact that that story is, is not what you think it is. Like, like, you know, it is like, like, like it's a, it's an anglicized version of the story that he sort of saw to the devil. Yeah. It was really a deity named Papa Legbox.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
who is a West African deity from the Yoruba tradition that was brought over by enslaved Africans, who's a different, like, he's not Satan, you know what I mean? He's not involved in Christianity. No, exactly. He's not involved in Christianity. It's a different deity, you know, who's associated with trickery and, you know,
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and gifts, but it, but it really is like how, how I looked at it, you know, um, is, is a metaphor for the Faustian deal. You know what I'm, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, and, and that, and that for me, when looking at it was like, okay, well, this is, this is,
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I mean, I think he got himself nominated.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
maybe something that lends itself towards the specificity of vampires when it comes to, like, the supernatural horror rogues gallery. You know what I'm saying? Yes.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah, yeah. And the idea of a deal, you know what I'm saying, to get out of a situation, like mortgaging, you know, mortgaging something for something else, you know, like it's something that I think... you know, oppressed people of all cultural backgrounds are very familiar with. You know what I'm saying?
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Look, you know, my inspiration for this movie was my relationship with my Uncle James, who's from Mississippi. He was the oldest male member of my family. And I was very close with him, man. Like, you know, I loved him very much. And a part of my, something that I had to give up in pursuit of being a professional filmmaker to be able to have this movie to talk to y'all about.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I had to leave my family a lot. I had to miss a lot of shit, birthdays and weddings and just general get togethers, you know what I'm saying? Because I was away at film school, I was off shooting a movie. The year I made Creed, you know, was the year he was terminally ill. You know what I mean? He got sick and died. And I maybe saw him once or twice that year.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
And when I got the call that he had passed away, I was in a post-production facility in Los Angeles. I was at a place called Wildfire Post. And I felt like shit that I wasn't on my uncle's side. You know what I mean? Because I was pursuing this dream. You know what I'm saying? He knows you love him. Oh, 100%, bro. But the thing is, it's like,
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
the question of what you give up to get something, you know what I'm saying? Like that was always what I saw, the Tommy Johnson, the Robert Johnson fable. That's what that was about. I'm going to make you a great guitar player, but in exchange for your soul.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Something super hard. I mean, like, it would have to be something, like, for my kids or something, like, to guarantee. That's a waste. You know, like, to guarantee. That's a waste. It's on them. It's on them. They can sell their souls. To guarantee, you know what I'm saying, like, all my descendants, you know what I'm saying, go to, you know, live, live, wonderful lives and go to heaven.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
You know what I'm saying? I might consider putting that on the line. You know what I mean? That's actually a wonderful answer.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
That's my vampire year, dude. I mean, what's crazy about him, bro, is he been trying to make that movie favorite. He been trying to make that movie since he was a kid. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. Yeah, let me beat you to the punch by a long shot. You know what I'm saying? I hope you're not upset with me. You know what I mean? No, no, no.
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I'm sure they exist, you know what I'm saying? But I'm hoping people got in to check out another one, you know what I'm saying?
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I can't wait. It's brilliant. It's silly.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Man, so many things, bro. Yeah, so many things. Like, I can't, you know, I can't say on the pod because I wouldn't be able to get a deal done. It's how we do it.
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I know, man. Bro, I love it, man. Like, it's not... It's not... Yeah, bro, like, when you were saying, like, what's my favorite horror film, I'm like, bro, it's so many, like, that I just absolutely adore it, bro.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I appreciate that, you guys, man. That means the world. I love the genre. You guys are saying I'm coming down to it. I feel like I was coming up to it. You know what I'm saying? Because when I was in... Before I even went to film school, my first short films I would make would have will have horror elements to them.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I'm used to it, bro. I'm working on X-Files, bro.
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I've been excited about that for a long time and And I'm fired up to get back to it. And that would, you know, some of those episodes, if we do our jobs right, will be really fucking scary.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I waved at her one time. I've spoken to the great Gillian Anderson. Yes, she's amazing.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah, yeah. She's incredible. And, you know, fingers crossed there.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
uh i can't wait to see her she already in tron i just seen a trailer for that oh yeah that's right she's in tron when i spoke to her she was she was she was finishing that up um but but but yeah but we're gonna try to make something really great bro um and and and really and really be um you know something for the real x-files fans and today you know what i'm saying and maybe find some new ones tell you what we're cruel and we're cutthroat so just so you know
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
So we're going to attack you. I'm going to know how y'all feel.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
It's coming, bro. Yeah, it's really good. Hell yeah. Really, really, really good. You know, I think this... I'm biased, obviously, but I think the score is some of Ludwig's best work. And this soundtrack is some of his best work as well in that space. Like, it's incredible.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
But I didn't feel like I was, I didn't feel like I was good enough to make that, to make that step yet, man. I kind of got away from it.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I didn't know where I was going, bro. It's scary out here.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Fantastic, bro. I saw him in person. We saw him twice. We've seen him twice. We love that album. No, no, check game. He performed in this venue called The Cave up north in Napa, bro. And I was like, the whole time he was playing, bro, I was like, yo, somebody got to put a movie theater in a cave because this shit is sick. It was like stone walls and shit.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
And I was literally going to ask, who got a projector?
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
but yeah man he makes you feel like you floating doesn't he oh my god we saw him at the hollywood forever uh yeah we saw at the masonic lodge it was unbelievable i thought i was gonna float yeah the least coolest people in the room for sure can i ask y'all a question bro yeah i don't want y'all to answer with all sincerity man don't give me the fake podcast answer give me the real answer bro okay
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Would y'all watch Sinners at the Cemetery, bro? Hollywood forever. Yep. I mean, of course. Do it.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah. Get it done. Yeah, please. Make it happen.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I bet we're going to get to work on that after, after hopefully, after hopefully a robust.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
If you at least produce it, you know, that's not, that's not, that's not a bad idea at all, bro. He's still there. He's still alive.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
He's been listening to a lot of George Clinton, bro. I could tell. Well, obviously referenced. I was today years old when I realized on Atomic Dog, the whole beat, he's panting like a dog.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I'm talking before Lox, bro. I was making stuff before that. Lox, I think, was my second semester of graduate school. But I was making shorts when I was an undergrad, when I first learned that I wanted to make movies in it. And I made a couple of things at SC, you know, that, you know, one of them actually was the thing that got me recommended for Fruitvale. But nobody will ever see those movies.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I'm not answering that. I'm not answering that. Sorry, sir.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Likewise. Thank you all for having me, man. Best of luck with everything, man. I really appreciate y'all.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
All right, Joe. See you, guys. Thank you, man. Be good.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
It wasn't legal for us to submit those movies to festivals or anything like that. And they weren't good enough. But, um, but I've been, you know, I've been in love with the genre, man, and wanting to make something, you know, in that zone since I learned I wanted to make movies. You know, that was my first, that was my first, my first instinct. But then, you know, You know, I made locks.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Locks was the first thing I could submit to festivals, you know, by someone who was at a school and ended up making things more in that, you know, more in that tonality. You know, but this was kind of a homecoming for me. That folks who really know me, who are around, you know, know I have this type of passion for horror cinema.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah, man, my favorite horror movies, man. I would say number one is The Thing. Yes!
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I consider The Thing cosmic horror. You know, it definitely has science fiction elements as well. I must tell you, bro, even though I love genre cinema, I don't like the concept of genre. It annoys me. Having to classify things, especially after making this movie, You know, because I can research and, you know, the movie deals with a lot of things.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Right. Hereditary is a big one for me. I love that movie.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yes. Yes. No, 100%. Like, the thing is... I always work from the standpoint of knowing what my worst fear is as an artist. And I'm always kind of dealing with that in my movies. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And in this movie, I dealt with all of them. Like all of my worst fears are in this. I just dumped them all in there. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
But what I was saying about genre was like, you know... in studying for this movie, I was studying Delta blues music. And I discovered that for a long time when the music business was first commodified in this country, genre itself was a tool of racism. Like if a black person sang a song, And then a white person sang the same song.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
You know, they would put those two songs into two different genres. You know what I'm saying? Like the black song would be called a race record. And then the white person singing the song, that might be called bluegrass. Or like pop. Exactly. And, you know, the music industry, you know, came before the film industry. You know what I'm saying? Like it's an older industry.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
So a lot of the film business, it follows the whims of music because it's an older industry. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that tradition is what causes like certain genres to be kind of like ghettoized. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Like this genre is beneath this genre. The horror movie is beneath the costume drama. You know what I'm saying? Sure.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
So whenever I hear it with this one and I'm trying to define it or when I'm trying to classify a movie like Rosemary's Baby, you know what I'm saying?
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah, exactly. So you realize it becomes, you know, like they had this ridiculous rule that the movie interrogates, like, called the one-drop rule, like, for human beings, right, in this country at a time when they were trying to put the, you know, when they're trying to stick apartheid on top of humanity. They said, all right, if you got one drop of black blood, now that makes you black.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Yeah. Which is so absurd when you hear this. But it's also, you know, you think about that with movies. It's like, hey, you got one, you got a couple of horror scenes. No, that's a horror film. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like, well, it's Rosemary's Baby. Like, how are we going to talk about this movie?
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Because the vast majority of it, you know, is a husband and wife talking to their neighbors. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, and so for me, you know, my favorite horror movies, they all are going to have an element of like a question mark. Like, yo, is that a horror movie? Because look, I'll tell you straight up.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Like, I think Steven Spielberg has created some of the most horrific images known to man, like, you know, with Jaws.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Raiders, that ending, bro, like what happens to the dude when he pops the thing. But also, man, a movie like Jurassic Park, like some of those Velociraptor sequences, the opening Velociraptor sequence, when a guy gets eaten.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
by something in a box that you can't see. Or the T-Rex sequence when it's raining at night and the cup is rippling and he's coming by the car and he's breathing on the glass. The velociraptor opening the door and the claws on the kitchen tile. You know what I'm saying? That movie is so scary. It literally scares dogs.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Dogs know it's scary. Your dog's not fucking with you. Get that thing off.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah. Absolutely, man. Like, it's so much fun, bro. Like, look, a big... a big inspiration for the movie was also the Twilight Zone. You know, like, that's my... The Twilight Zone is like my filmmaking Bible if I have one.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah, exactly. My favorite episode of Twilight Zone is not as talked about, but it's an episode called The Last Rites of Jeff Myrtlebank.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
And it's about a guy in a southern Midwestern town, Depression era, who wakes up at his own funeral. And it's about the fallout of the town, like trying to figure out what's going on with this guy, you know? And it's just beautiful filmmaking, bro. It's funny. It's scary. It's smart. You know what I mean? Yes. And like for me... You know, that shit.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
And it has like a few, you know, a few scenes that could maybe delve into horror. You know what I'm saying? But most of it is just like slice of life in this town. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Have you ever seen Handling the Undead? No, what is that?
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Do you know anybody who does that shit? My wife, who's my producer on this one, she found a consultant. Um, for, for us, uh, you know, cause I work, I'm big on consultants, bro.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I work with a lot of consultants when I make, when I make movies, I, out of fear of just not wanting people to, to, to, who are knowledgeable about the subject matter we make and to sit in the theater and see us get it wrong on a giant screen. You know what I'm saying?
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yes. I mean, I got nothing to push, bro. That's unfortunate. I got nothing but a movie.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah. Yeah. No, no. So she found us an incredible consultant. Um, uh, her, her name is Dr. Yvonne. Her name is Dr. Yvonne. What's her last name? Yeah. Oh, Sev. Oh, my bad. Sev found that consultant. Our other producer. My wife, Zinzi, is here. Hi.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah, Zanzi Coogler is my boss's name. And the doctor's name was Dr. Yvonne Chereau. Okay. And she, you know, like, you know, read the script, gave feedback. It helped us to make sure that the ritual where Annie, who's our conjurer woman in the movie, where she feeds Smoke's mojo bag, which is a good luck charm that's very, very famous and very talked about in blues culture.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Sometimes it's called a mojo hand. Sometimes it's called a Johnny Conqueroo. But you'll hear this referred to in
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
extremely famous blues songs you know uh but but you know all that stuff i wanted to be real man like in in um you know i love uh you know i mean it's like it's a lot of filmmakers carrying the torch for that right like um like robert eggers yeah who's your buddy too he's a little bird he told us you're friends with him and you guys are both well yeah yeah robert and i have the same agent um who's like who's like a who's like a uh
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
who's an incredible person, bro. Like Craig, Craig Castile, who, who are, who are contact us with, right? Right. Like, uh, like Walter and Craig. Yeah. Um, you know, are, are, are, are, are, have been in each other's lives for, for, for the better part of a decade. And, and Craig loves cinema, man. He loves his job, bro. He really does. You know, so, so, so I've been hearing about Robert forever.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
And, um, and, you know, we, we finally got a chance to exchange, exchange info. And, and, but, but, but, but, you know, I love, the feeling of a fully realized and tactile world where you can feel that the filmmakers cared. It's a deep history of that. We wanted the magic in this movie to feel like everything else, like the music, like the dance in the movie. We wanted it to feel
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
real and lived in and respected, you know? Yeah. It's beautiful.
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
Yeah, it's funny, man, because for a long time, film was how I traveled. You know, like watching... I still, to this day, haven't been to Brazil. But I've seen City of God. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like I've been mentally ill. I didn't get to New York. until I was like 22 years old and one of my films got into the Tribeca Film Festival.
Last Podcast On The Left
Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
But I felt like I had been in New York all the time watching movies like Coming to America and Marty Scorsese movies. You know what I'm saying? So for me... A big part of it, not that I had this incredible blessing to be able to make movies. I think about that. I say, well, this is how a vast majority of my audience is going to experience Philadelphia. You know what I'm saying?
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Sinners: An Interview with Ryan Coogler
I don't want to fuck this up. I don't want somebody who is from Philadelphia to pay a ticket to see what they think is a Rocky movie. And only to realize, man, we got Philadelphia completely wrong. You know what I'm saying? They care, too. Oh, yeah. They let you know.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Like, like it's, it's, you know, we may be more African than we know, you know, and realizing that, that, that the, you know, the 400 year distance from the continent, you know, it did not, it, it was no way it was ever going to change thousands of years of, you know, you know what I mean? Of, of, of culture, right? Um, But with this, it was like, oh, we affected this place. You know what I mean?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Like, we brought Africa here. You know, like, that was what I realized was... you know, we had the power of transformation, man, over landscape, over feeling, you know what I mean? And it's known that the music came from that place, you know, like the most influential form of blues music, the Delta Blues.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
That's where it came from, that spot, and that realizing that, oh, we didn't just bring Africa to this patch of land here, you know, which is the American South, right? Right. We didn't just do that. And we also, these people who lived in these places awful conditions, you know, produced an art form that changed the world and continues to change. Like, it redefined everything.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
It was before and it was after. You know what I mean? That, to me, was like, oh, this movie's big. Like, this movie's bigger than I thought. I thought I was making something small.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
You know what I'm saying? But, no, I'm making something massive. And I realized in that moment, if I do this right, there's an argument that there shouldn't be a bigger movie. You know, like, from there, it was like, okay, IMAX,
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Yeah, man. Like, like, um, I mean, I guess I'm getting into relationships then, you know, like, uh, The first two films I remember watching were Boys in the Hood and Malcolm X. And I'm fortunate enough to have gotten to know John Singleton before he passed away. Rest in peace, John. And he became a mentor of mine. We went to the same alma mater. And I've become fortunate enough- USC Film School.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
USC Film School, School of Cinematic Arts. And I'm fortunate enough to have gotten to know Spike Lee. And he's become a mentor for me. And I know from John's mouth that he told me, Boys in the Hood is because he went to, he made Boys in the Hood because he went to go see Do the Right Thing. And got so inspired and also so jealous, you know what I mean?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
He said, man, I want something like this for Los Angeles. Wow. Goes home and writes boys, right? I watched that as a child. Spike, who's obviously... Both these guys are cinephiles. You know what I'm saying? They both have an encyclopedic... It's hard talking about John in past tense. They both have an encyclopedic knowledge of the craft, right?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
And hearing Spike talk about Malcolm X and going door-to-door with black celebrities to raise money for...
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
I've never had to. I'm getting emotional because it's hitting me now because I'm talking about the ease of which I can make a vampire movie this expensive. And Malcolm X is one of the most important Americans to ever live. You know what I'm saying? You know, not even for our culture, but for pop culture. You know, you get no X-Men without Malcolm X. You know what I'm saying? You get no ex-clan.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
And the fact that he had to go door to door to the black community to get enough money to go make the story of Malcolm X in a way that it deserved. You know what I'm saying? That just hit me like a ton of bricks, coupled with the fact that John ain't here no more. You know what I'm saying? So for me... I saw both those movies, bro. You know, in the epic scope of that.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
And when I talked to Spike, he knew what an epic film should look like, what it should feel like. He knew that Malcolm's story was deserving of that. And I realized, oh man, you can make the argument that Delta Blues music is the most important American contribution to global popular culture. You know, you can make that argument. And, these people weren't important, bro.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
These were just human beings trying to make it under a back-breaking form of American apartheid.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
breaking everybody's backs. You know what I'm saying? And they were just trying, and that act, you know what I mean? That act of a formation of humanity, you know, that deserves epic treatment too. It deserves the most epic treatment. And I'm sitting there, you know what I'm saying, like with Spice Momentum, you know what I mean? And I'm making a movie about blues vampires.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
I ain't have to knock on Oprah's door. You know what I'm saying? And I ain't have to ask Michael Jordan for money, you know? You know, I have to do that, right? I said, man, I got to go for it.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
You know what I'm saying? Because this music, you know, it changed the world. And these people had nothing. You know what I mean?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
director Ryan Coogler. The film Sinners comes out next week, and Jelani Cobb is a staff writer at The New Yorker, and he's also dean of the School of Journalism at Columbia University. This is The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick, and thanks for being with us today. Hope you'll join us next week.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Jelani Cobb sat down in our studio the other day with Ryan Coogler.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Yeah, yeah. So I had the desire to make something that was uniquely personal, you know? And what that means is, like, I wanted to make the thing that only I could make. Look, all my films have been personal, right? I've been fortunate enough to build them as uniquely as a filmmaker could. But they all did start with something that existed outside of myself.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
With Fruitvale, we were adapting the story about a young man's life. A young man was murdered by a law enforcement officer. And where I'm from in the Bay Area, there was a great awareness about Oscar Grant. And a lot of people knew him personally. But even if you didn't know him, you knew who he was, right? You saw what happened. You saw the story play out. You saw the awful video footage.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
With Creed, it was a pre-existing franchise that I had an idea for an entry into it. I never imagined that it would spawn sequels to that and things. I was looking at it as a singular thing at the time. But, you know, it was a very personal story inspired by my father's love of that and all his Rocky movies and that love being handed down to me.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
But it was not something that came from me initially in its entirety, right? You know, with the Panther films, you know, I was hired onto that movie. You know what I mean? That was something that Marvel was making. They were looking for a director. You know, fortunately enough, they called me and were interested in what I was trying to do with it.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
You know, so this time, I had an opportunity that is very, like, it's a rare opportunity, and I knew it was. because of the financial success that these previous films have had, that I could, you know, mortgage or leverage that success into doing something that's uniquely mine, that would not exist in the world, you know what I mean, if it wasn't for me, right, and what I like and what I'm into.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
So the film is really just based on my interests, you know what I'm saying? Like in... I love horror movies. And I love, absolutely love music. You know, and music I use, it's the art form I use in so many different ways. You know, I use it if I want to communicate something to somebody that I love. I use it if I want to calm my mind. If I want to influence a room of strangers.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
As a kid, I used to use it to travel. You know what I'm saying? I hadn't been anywhere, but I would listen to Mobb Deep and Nas and say, oh man, this is what New York must feel like. You know, listen to DMX and say, oh man, this is what the East Coast must feel like, right?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
I mean, well, I'll tell you this. I actually thought about this. In all four of my movies before this, there's a moment in the movie where a character experiences the afterlife. And for me, those are the strongest moments that I remember either finding them in post-production or them always being an intentional design when I was writing them. But it happens in this movie, too.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
you know, in a lot of different ways. But it is something like retroactively I realized recently, you know, and it's something that I'm always dealing with. I was raised, you know, Christian, Baptist, and, you know, in the black tradition, you know what I mean? And product of the second wave of the great migration.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
My mother's family came from Texas through her matrilineal side. Her patrilineal side was from Mississippi. Oh, okay. Yeah, so her mother was from Port Arthur, Texas, and she married a Mississippi man who was in Oakland. He passed away before I met him. And I remember, bro, I remember, like— being young and I was in Catholic school and it was a black Catholic school.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
You know, we had a lot of those coming up. So I had religion in school, which was like a different type of vibe, right? You go to mass and sit down, stand up, sit down, stand up, you know what I'm saying? You know, like singing these slow songs, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, and I felt very disassociated with, you know, it felt like being in class, but worse, you know what I'm saying?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
To be honest. And then I would go to church on Sundays where, you know, my mom singing in the choir, belting out notes, and my pastor, like, you know, grabbing people, slamming them.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Not the same, but, you know, I recognize some of the songs that were sung differently, you know what I mean? And I remember gaining, like, essentially, like, consciousness enough to understand that, oh, man, like, my parents' parents are dead, some of them. You know, I remember having conversations with my dad about his parents who had both died before I was born.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
My mom's dad had died before I was born. And I remember, you know, coming up at that age, three, four, five, and asking about their parents and hearing about how many of their parents, you know, so are y'all gonna die? You know, and being up late at night, you know, when they telling me about heaven, and how, you know, it goes on forever and trying to like understand this concept of an eternity.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
You know what I'm saying? Or to understand this concept of my mom saying, yeah, but my father is still with me and I know he's proud of me. I know he's proud of you. You know, like in this concept of my relationship with the afterlife, with my own mortality, and how that looks through a Catholic lens or a Christian lens or a Baptist lens, it was something that I've been reckoning with forever.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
And I'm looking back on my work and I'm like, oh yeah, I'm still reckoning with that. And for me, this film is about a lot of things, man, but it's also about the act of coping.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Ryan Coogler began his career in film as a realist. His indie debut is called Fruitvale Station. It's a tragedy about a police killing in the Bay Area train station, and it scrupulously followed the last day of the victim's life leading up to the shooting. Coogler moved from there to the drama of Creed about a young boxer, a film that was in the line of Rocky.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that was very important to me, man. Like, if there was anything that was akin to... the techniques that I learned from franchise filmmaking, it was how do I deal with the vampire? Because, because the vampire is not an idea that I own. You know what I mean?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
None of these ideas in the film are ideas that I own, you know, like, like, um, the tortured, uh, blues musician, you know, um, the gangster identical twins, uh, the conjured woman, the rationally ambiguous person, you know, and, and, and these archetypes, these archetypes, you know what I mean? I was very, I was very, very,
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
serious about going there, dealing with the archetype with this movie and the international shared experience and knowledge of what a vampire is, what that means, and the expectations, right? So for me, it was like, all right, how do I make this concept my own? How is this a vampire the way that I like to tell stories, the one that's unique to me, you know? And the movie deals with, you know...
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
The Faustian deal. I was very obsessed with the ancient, you know what I mean? The most notorious Delta blues story is the story of the musician who goes to the crossroads. Oftentimes it's thought of being in Clarksdale, Mississippi. and making a deal with a nefarious metaphysical character. Right. The Robert Johnson narrative. The Robert Johnson narrative.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Now, I did some research, most extensively with Amiri Baraka's work.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And Deep Blues by Robert Palmer. And they talk about how sometimes it's the devil, sometimes it's Papa Legba, you know what I mean? Papa Legba, right.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
It's African spiritual figure. Exactly. But that idea of the Faustian bargain, and not just to be a good guitar player, but to have a better life, you know what I mean? Like what kind of, how much of yourself do you have to give up to do X, Y, and we all make them, you know what I mean?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Like whether it's on a movie deal or a publishing job or a teaching gig, you know, it's always like, man, what of myself am I going to give up to have whatever this thing offers, you know, for me, maybe in the distance momentarily for my family, you know? It was the bargain that my parents had to make to send me to parochial school, right?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
So when I realized that that was the most notorious story of this music from this place, I said, oh, the movie has to be about that. And what if vampirism is a deal that they're selling?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
And what is the upside to it? And what's the cost?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Director Ryan Coogler, speaking with The New Yorker's Jelani Cobb. More in a moment.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
And then he went on to make the super commercial widescreen fantasy, a Marvel hit called Black Panther, of course. In his new movie, which is called Sinners, Ryan Coogler is still dealing with themes of race and history and faith. But this time, he's packed it with vampires. What y'all doing?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Absolutely, man. And it was so much, man, it was so... It's such a blessing to be able to make this movie. It's very sharp of Zinzi to make that assessment. She's the sharpest person I know, man. And, yeah, no, she's absolutely right. And what's funny is I went to Mississippi, and that is the most African place I've ever been outside of being on the continent. What do you mean by that?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
Number one, the feeling that I got. It was a feeling that... that I got when I first touched down on the continent. And I get it every time I go back, you know? And it's difficult to explain. I tried to think about it in a tactile manner and tried to translate that into the film. I remember I got out of the car in the Mississippi Delta and I was like, oh, wow, I feel like I'm back, you know?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Ryan Coogler on “Sinners”
And that was... for me was like deeply profound, man. Like, um, it was like, oh, through the process of making Black Panther, I realized, all right, African Americans are, are extremely African.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Sie helfte einem Studenten an der Schule an diesem Tag. Sie helfte jemandem auf der Jobseite an einem anderen Tag. Und dann kam sie zum Set, als sie fertig war.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, und sie hat das gleiche in L.A. gemacht, als ich im Post war. Und dann, als ich bei den Panthers war, hat sie das gleiche gemacht, als ich in L.A. arbeitete. Und dann habe ich sie, nach dem Film, überzeugt, mit mir zu starten, Filme zu machen. Oh, ja? Ja.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Sie hat das gemacht, ja. Oh, ja. Back then, bro, I wasn't makin' no money. Even on Creed, though? Ich meine, sie muss... Ich meine, ich war 200.000 Euro im Geld für Filmschule. Also, ja, es war schlecht. Wir waren noch nicht verheiratet. Wir waren engagiert. Ja. Aber wir kommen aus keinem Geld, Bro. Ja. Wir sind nicht zu dem Ort gekommen, wo man argumentieren kann, dass sie nicht arbeiten musste.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich habe mich nur gefragt, ob sie... Es war eine Art Gefühl von...
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und ihre Mutter ist aus den Philippinen. Sie ist in die Bay Area geflogen, als sie 20, 21 war. Ja. Also ist sie die erste Generation auf der Erde. auf der Mutterseite, und dann die silente Generation auf der Vaterseite, weißt du was ich meine? Und es kam nicht viel.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Sie war immer ein Arbeiter, sie war immer, sie war immer, sie war immer, sie war immer, sie war immer, sie war immer, sie war immer, sie war immer, sie war immer,
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, ja. Nein, nein, nein. Ja, wie echte Arbeit. Ja, ja, ja. Ja, das baut Leute auf. Ja.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja. Ja, meine Mutter arbeitete für einen Non-Profit, der von einem jesuischen Priester in Oakland gegründet wurde. Und das war eine Gemeinschaftsorganisation. Die Non-Profit selbst würde die Gemeinschaft organisieren und trainieren. Die Gemeinschaft war eine internationale Organisation. Meine Mutter war ein Geschäftsführer. Sie begann als Vertreterin des Founders.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und dann schlussendlich arbeitete sie bis zum CFO der Organisation, bevor sie wegging. In solchen Situationen... Was ist der Job eines Gemeinschaftsorganisierers? Um ehrlich zu sein, Bruder, ich weiß es nicht. Meine Mutter arbeitete im Büro. In Oakland, nicht weit von meiner Schule. Sie machte viel Papier. Sie hatte eine Kopiermaschine und einen Computer. Und oben und unten war unser Boss.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Er rannte die Organisation. Ich war ein Kind, Bruder. Er hatte viele Papiere. People will come in and meet.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Yeah, Delroy lives... He's from somewhere else, but he lives in Oakland. He's lived in Oakland for like, I don't know, what, 40 years?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Das rote Haar, ja. Weißt du, was lustig ist? Letztes Mal, als ich Boots gesehen habe, war ich in einem Restaurant und habe das rote Haar gesehen. Das war ein Jahr und ein halbes hervor. Das war eigentlich nur ein Jahr und ein paar Jahre hervor. Das war bevor wir beide unsere Filme gemacht haben. Oh ja. Er macht gerade auch seine Filme.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, das ist unglaublich. Sorry to bother you. Ja, ja, ja, mit den horse-headed guys. Ich habe dich lieb, Mann. Ich liebe Boots. Ja, ja. Wann auch immer ich mit ihm gesprochen habe, habe ich fast mein Notebook hier. Ich fühle mich genauso, als wenn ich auf deinem Podcast höre. Ja. Du wirst etwas sagen. Es ist eine starke Chance, dass du etwas sagen wirst, was ich schreiben darf. Keine Sorge.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Boots ist so. Ja. Manchmal bringe ich meinen Notebook mit, wenn er mit mir spricht. Er spricht mit mir über die Geschichte und er hat so eine unique Perspektive. Wie ein Musiker und ein Filmmacher.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Oh, that's amazing. Look at the wolf, yeah. That's amazing. That's a good one, right? It's beautiful.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Yeah, I see Chuck now. And that's Mick, huh?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Man, that's such a good question, bro. So, I tend to make movies, like, I'm drawn to stories about identity. Yeah. And in my identity as a Als Amerikaner, als Afroamerikaner, ein blauer Mann, was einige Leute einen grundsätzlichen blauen Amerikaner nennen, meine Angehörigen sind hier schon eine sehr lange Zeit.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich habe deinen letzten Namen noch nie gehört. Es ist ein deutscher Name. Es bedeutet, dass jemand Deutschlands einen meiner Angehörigen hat. Genau. Es ist etwas, das mich immer... Es beeinflusst alles. Meine Identität, kulturell meine Identität, persönlich. Je älter ich werde, desto mehr bin ich interessiert in die Frage. Ich war interessiert in dieser Frage, als ich ein Kind war.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und jetzt habe ich Kinder. Und ich bin noch interessierter in der Frage. In der Frage, wie ich bin, wer ich jetzt bin. Aber auch, warum der Welt so ist. Was ist mein Platz in der Welt? Mit Fruville habe ich eine Geschichte erzählt. Das ist ein Ort, den ich kenne. Das ist wie auf der Straße. Auf der Straße, genau.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, ja, Herr. Ja, Herr. Ja. Was die Kamera kapabel ist, zu tun. Ja. Und wir wissen das in der Welt, dass jeder eine high def Kamera in seinem Koffer hat. Ja. In der Welt ist... Das hat sich verändert, aber auch geändert in manchen Fällen. Aber für mich, für jeden Film möchte ich mit einer Frage anfangen. Und für Fruville war die Frage, wie könnte das hier passieren?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Weil ich hatte eine Sicht auf die Bay Area. Und ich denke, jeder hat seine persönliche Sicht auf die Bay Area. Und die Frage, wie ein Mann sein kann, Das ist, wo die Panthers gegründet wurden. Sie wurden gegründet, weil diese Dinge geschehen. In diesem Film habe ich mich in die Geschichte eingelassen, aber auch Dinge über mich selbst entdeckt.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
In diesem Film habe ich bemerkt, dass ich Kinder wollte. Ich dachte nicht, dass ich Kinder wollte, bevor ich diesen Film gemacht habe, aber durch den Prozess, den ich gemacht habe, war es auch eine Geschichte über einen Vater, einen jungen Vater. Ich möchte sehen, wie das ist. Und für Creed hatte ich die Idee dafür, weil mein Vater krank war. Auf eine Art und Weise verstand ich es nicht.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ist er noch da? Ja, er ist gut. Oh, gut. Er ist gut. Aber es war ein bisschen auf und ab, als ich mit dieser Idee gekommen bin.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Yeah, totally, totally. And a guy from a community, a guy who had people who he loved, a guy who had people who were calling on him. Was he from Oakland? He's from Hayward, actually.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Nein. Nein. Ich meine, was mich oft folgt, wenn ich einen Film beende, ist die Depression. Das muss eine Depression auf ein paar Ebenen gewesen sein. Auf ein paar Ebenen, ja. Wir haben ihn geliefert. Das war, als George Zimmerman-Verdict herunterkam. Er ging, während wir in... In Theatern. Ein Teil von mir war sehr naiv, als ich in meinen Zwischenzehnten das Film gemacht habe.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich dachte, das könnte einen Unterschied machen. Und es war sehr klar, dass ich mir zu dem Zeitpunkt gesagt habe, ja, wahrscheinlich nicht. Ich meine, die Unmöglichkeit davon,
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
And, you know, and the beauty and the epic beauty in that. Yeah. Yeah, the epic beauty in sich zu sehen, die Leute zu sehen, die dich verstehen, deine Position in der Gesellschaft oder die superhumanen Druck, die auf dich liegen. Ja.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Aber auch gleichzeitig zu verstehen, dass du nur ein Mensch bist, der eine gute Zeit für eine Nacht hat oder ein Traum hat oder Zeit verbringen möchte, wenn du dein Kind nach Hause bringen willst. Ja, ja, ja. All diese Dinge. Ich dachte, du weißt, es war, Das war das, was ich bemerkt habe, dass ich Filme machen wollte. Und als du Filme gemacht hast, war das auf deinem Kopf?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich meine, diese Idee, ich denke, war auf mich eingepflegt, nur umgekehrt, wie meine Familie runtergeht und wie meine Nachbarschaft runtergeht, wie es von Oakland aus war. Was machte dein alter Vater? Mein Vater arbeitete als Jugendleiter in Juvenile Hall. Also, essentiell,
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Man, he hasn't had that job for a long time now, but it was essentially like a cross between a child care provider in a group home and a prison guard. It was where kids who got incarcerated would go. And this job of a youth guidance counselor was, you know, you kind of had to be dass der Junge gut war und den Jungen in die Erwachsenheit geführt hat.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Aber man muss auch darauf achten, dass sie nicht in diesem Ort weggehen. Man muss auch darauf achten, dass sie sich nicht verletzen oder die anderen Jungen. Das war sein Job. Hat er alle Filme gesehen? Mein Vater? Ja, er hat alle meine Filme gesehen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, und in der Realität, weil ich die Chance hatte, mit meinem Vater zu arbeiten, für etwa fünf Jahre, habe ich mit meinem Vater part-time gearbeitet. Und ich sehe Leute auf der Arbeit, die, weißt du, weil auf der Arbeit bist du wie eine Blende dieser beiden Dinge. Weißt du, was ich meine? Ich sehe Leute, die sich mehr darauf bewegen, die Arbeit zu behandeln, als ob sie eine Gefängniswaffe wären.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Disziplinär. Ja, ich meine, das ist wie, weißt du, das ist wie, wie die Gefängniswaffe. Weißt du, was ich meine? Und sie würden sich in die Gefängniswaffe bewegen. Sie waren ja auch Polizisten. Und dann gab es Leute, die den gleichen Job hatten, die viel mehr auf die Kinderbetreuung konzentrierten. Wie ein Sozialarbeiter. Ja, ich versuchte wirklich, die Kinder aufzubauen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Mein Vater war vielleicht zu weit in diese Richtung. Er wurde nie wirklich promotiert. Du weißt, was ich meine? Du hattest zu viel Aufmerksamkeit. Ja, genau. Ich versuchte, wie mein Vater, während ich da war. Es war ein wirklich schwieriges Job, Bro. Und mein Vater hat viele Kinder verloren, Mann. So viele von den Kindern, mit denen mein Vater nahe war, wurden verletzt und getötet.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Weißt du, was ich meine? Oder verletzt und in Gefängnis gebracht. Für eine lange Zeit. Weißt du, was ich meine? Und, weißt du, bis ich wusste, was mein Vater tat, Wir waren in der Bay Area, in den 90ern, und es waren junge Männer, die zu meinem Vater rannten und ihn kümmerten. Manchmal brachte er sie an, weißt du was ich meine? Und später wusste ich, dass das die Leute waren, die mein Vater hatte.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Weißt du was ich meine? An einem Ort, an dem nicht jeder nach ihm geschaut hat. Der König hätte entgegengegangen. Ja. Und sie sind in Ordnung. Ja, ja, sicher. Und dankbar. Ja, sicher. Mein Vater, seine Karriere war vielleicht nicht der größte an diesem Ort. Für alle Gründe. Aber er hat für die Kinder geschaut. Aber das ist der Einfluss.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Nein, nein, verdammt nicht. Ich habe nicht dort gearbeitet, bis ich 21 war. Ich habe gearbeitet, seit ich 13 war. Vielleicht jünger, Bro. Mein erster Job war, ich habe Gardening mit meinem Onkel gemacht. Er hatte eine Landschaftsfirma. Also habe ich mit ihm gearbeitet, als ich im 8. oder 9. Jahrhundert war. Das ist dein Vaters Bruder? Nein, das ist mein Vaters Cousin. Oh, okay.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Tatsächlich ist er mein Cousin. Er ist älter, also nennen wir ihn mein Onkel. Also bist du mit den Mauerhändlern unterwegs und so? Ja, mit den Mauerhändlern, Bro. Es war verrückt. Mein Onkel ist wie... Mein Onkel ist wie Gus Fring. Er sieht aus wie Giancarlo Di Espinosa. Er hat auch ein paar KFCs gewonnen. Er und seine Frau haben KFCs gewonnen. So they owned a KFC in Emeryville.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
So then as soon as I turned 16, I could work there. You're out of the mowers? Yeah, I was out of the mowers. Into the grease? Yeah, exactly. Working for Harmon's Corporation. And then I worked in a couple group homes as a child care provider. Und dann, als ich 21 war, habe ich mit meinem Vater ein bisschen gearbeitet.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Großartig, Bro. Großartig. Ich meine, unglaublich, Mann. Du siehst, wie viele Menschen wir als Menschen sind. Wir sind Produkte eines Coinflips. Du hast Kinder da drin. that had no saying in how their life went. You know what I'm saying? Like maybe their parent made a decision or both parents made a decision or an adult Sie haben sie verletzt, sie wurden verletzt, weißt du, was ich meine?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und jetzt, der Kampf ihrer Leben, für den Rest ihres Lebens, von diesem Punkt an, ist es, zu entscheiden, ob diese Aktion, die jemand anderes gegen sie genommen hat, sie definieren wird. Weißt du, was ich meine? Und wie sie von innen zurück kämpfen,
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Yeah, or harming themselves. You know what I mean? Like believing that they deserve punishment. You know what I'm saying? It's complicated. You know, 100%, bro.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Sie hat mir das gesagt. Ja, wie du weißt, der Film war, ich meine, der Film kam zusammen in einer wirklich interessanten Weise. Ich war in der USC Filmschule. Also nachdem du bei KFC gearbeitet hast, wie kamst du zur USC? Ich spiele immer Fußball, also bin ich ein Fußballspieler. Und ich mache eine Schulserie. Meine Hauptrolle ist es, einen Fußballscholarschaft zu bekommen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Meine Eltern waren in der Mitte. Und du wolltest was sein? Ich wollte ein professioneller Fußballspieler werden, aber ich wusste, je älter ich wurde, desto mehr verstehe ich die Chancen, dass das passieren würde. Das ist gut. Und ich habe immer die Schule gesucht, also habe ich mir gedacht, ich werde ein Arzt werden, wenn ich das nicht machen kann. Das ist ein langer Weg. Ja.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Yeah, but my parents put me in good schools, private schools in Oakland, in Oakland and Berkeley. And they were always like, Sie haben es mir bekannt gemacht, dass es eine Verschuldung war, um für die Schule zu bezahlen. Genau, ich musste die Arbeit ernst nehmen. Aber mein ganzer Ziel war es, dass sie nicht dafür bezahlen, dass ich zur Schule gehe.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich wollte also eine Fußballscholarschaft bekommen. Ich habe also eine Fußballscholarschaft zur St. Mary's College bekommen. Das ist in Marrakech. Sie kennen das Basketballprogramm. Aber sie hatten damals auch ein Fußballprogramm. Und ich war in der Chemie. Und ich habe meine Arme gekackt. Mit den Läden. Die Läden und die Fußballpraxis waren nicht gut.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
You can do it. Yeah. But you can't charm your way through chemistry. You're not charming your way through a comedic career neither, but that shit is scientific. The job is charming. You gotta have the charm to look good. You can't get up there on stage and just be charming, bro. You watch a few comics. Yeah. Okay, also du machst die Chemie, du machst den Fußball und dann plötzlich was?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
So I'm playing, bro. I'm playing. I'm 17 years old. I'm playing my freshman year, true freshman year. We're getting killed, though. I think we got one in 11 or something. And then out of nowhere, they dropped the football program. The school makes a business decision. We're not going to do this no more. But does that mean you can't go there anymore?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Well, what it meant was, if I stayed there, they would have honored my scholarship, but there's no team. So I'll be going to school for free, but not playing football. That's all right. Aber nicht für mich, wenn ich 17 Jahre alt bin und in die NFL gehen will. Oder zumindest will ich die Möglichkeit versuchen. Meine ganze Identität ist in dem Fußball-Spiel eingestiegen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Also dachte ich mir, ich werde auf der Kampagne laufen und was machen. Dieser Kerl hat früher Fußball gespielt. Ja, also habe ich eine Belehrung erhoben. von einigen Schulen, einer von denen war in Sacramento. Ich habe das genommen, weil ich nahe zu Hause bleiben wollte. Und ich musste meine Messungen wechseln. Es war mir klar, dass die Chemie nicht funktionieren würde.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Also ging ich zur Finanzierung. Und während ich an St. Marys College war, ist es eine liberalen Kunstschule. Sie machen dir Englisch-Klassen. Ich habe einen kreativen Schriftstück genommen. in meinem Frühjahr. Das Semester, in dem sie das Programm geöffnet haben. Und ich war in einer Klasse mit einem Lehrer namens Rosemary Graham.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und sie hat etwas gelesen, das ich geschrieben habe und mir gesagt hat, dass ich Screenplay schreiben sollte. Ja. So ist das so passiert. Sie hat mich gesetzt und gesagt, ich denke, du sollst nach Hollywood schreiben und Screenplay schreiben. Also hatte ich das in der Rückseite in meinem Kopf. Ich habe angefangen, darüber nachzudenken. Ich habe angefangen, etwas selbst zu schreiben.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und dann habe ich meinem Freund damals gesagt, das war meine Frau jetzt. Ja. Und dann hat sie mir ein Screenwriting-Software gekauft. Das Final Page. Final Draft. Final Draft, ja, ja. Und dann war ich, als ich... Das war, als ich... Hast du es geliebt? Ich habe es geliebt, Bro. Ich habe etwas gefunden, das... außerhalb des Fußballes, die ich wirklich liebte.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Es gibt das Gleichgewicht, um eine bewegende Geschichte zu erschaffen. Es ist wunderschön. Noch heute, Mann. Ich öffne diese App nicht, bis ich bereit bin, zu gehen. Weißt du, was ich meine? Weil ich so viel Reverenz dafür habe. Ja, ja, ja. Du gehst nicht nur mit dem Film herum.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Also hast du dann einen Film in den USA eingeladen? Ich bin nach Sacramento State gegangen. Neues Team, neues Umfeld. Und ich bin sofort da gekommen. Und ich glaube Rosemary might have helped me find the people who would show me how to make movies at that school. It was a big school, kind of like a commuter school at the time. And they got different departments. She really believed in you.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Yeah, so she set you up with the film guys over there? Yeah, she helped me figure it out. And I went there and they had a great professional named Dr. Roberto Palmo. Uh-huh. Argentinian, American Cat. I think he just retired. He was like film theory, critical studies. And then I took production classes with a dude named Stephen Bush, who went to USC Film School. He kind of ran the production
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Man, what? Yes. Ich meine, das war ein gelerntes kulturelles Verhalten von meinen Eltern. Aber wenn du nach der Schule kommst, wenn du die Theorie-Klasse nimmst.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Oh, ja. Ja. I mean, that one was... Whose film was that? It was Oscar Micheaux. Okay. Yeah, yeah. We had to watch Birth of a Nation. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Which was like a fucked up watch as a black person, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, Griffith. Yeah, D.W. Griffith. Yeah. And then we watched Within Our Gates the next day. Yeah. So... I don't know that film. So, yeah, it's... Oscar Micheaux was...
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Er war unser erster besonderer Filmmacher aus der afroamerikanischen Gemeinschaft. Er hat keinen weißen kulturellen Hintergrund für uns. Vor Oscar Micheaux hatten wir ihn nicht. Ich glaube, ich habe etwas über ihn gelernt, aber ich habe den Film noch nie gesehen. Er war ein wunderschöner Filmmacher. Und der erste Filmmacher, der das Publikum unterstützt hat. Es ist ein wunderschöner Film.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
non-fiction series called hollywood in black that justin simeon did it talks about oscar michonne and some of his contemporaries yeah yeah um you know uh and folks that came that came after him but that experience was magical we also we also watched a film called lone star we watched Der John-Sales-Film? Ja, wir haben den Zoot-Suit gesehen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Du arbeitest mit dem gleichen DP? Nein, nein, ich habe mit einigen gearbeitet. Ich glaube, ich habe mit drei professionell gearbeitet. Aber meine letzten zwei Filme waren mit Autumn Archipelago.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, nein, sicher. Ich meine, es kommt von allem. Aber die Kamera ist das Hauptvehikel. Weißt du, was ich meine? Ja. Es ist wie ein Kamin für den Schauspieler. Was ich am Filmmachen mag, ist das, dass es schmerzt. Was ich am Schreiben mag, ist, dass es anders ist als beim Fußball. Es war nur ich. Der Fußball bewegt sich fast nicht mehr als ein Teamsport. Es ist fast wie ein Paramilitär.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und ich spiele als Unternehmer. Für mich, um eine Chance zu haben, einen Pass zu holen, So many things have to go right. That are completely outside of my control. They got to do it. My teammates and their individual battles and the play call coming from the coach. And not getting hit. So many things have to go right for me to even have the opportunity to touch the ball.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
And I gotta be right once it gets to me. You know what I'm saying? And Ja. Ja. Ja. Dein Telefonnummer wird zehnmal angerufen. Und lass nicht, dass die Person, die dich schützt, dir gut ist. Weißt du, was ich meine? Zu viele Herausforderungen. Genau, aber wenn ich das Telefonanruf hatte, war es einfach so, oh Scheiße, es ist nur ich. Weißt du, was ich meine? Ich habe die Chancen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich muss aufstehen. Aber auch, wenn es schrecklich ist, ist es auf mich. Weißt du, was ich meine? Aber dann... Ich bin ein Community-Guy. Ich mag den Team-Aspekt. Wenn du auf dem Set bist. Ja, es ist schön an einem Tag, an dem du verletzt wirst. Aber du kannst da raus und helfen. Dein Team gewinnt immer noch. Es ist nicht immer auf dich. Oder wenn du eine tolle Freundin hast.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und du kannst da sein und jemanden sehen, der groß ist. Und du bist mit ihm dabei. Es ist ein voller kollaborativer Effort. Oder diese Momente, wo jeder auf der gleichen Seite ist. Alles geht richtig. Du denkst nicht mal darüber nach. Jeder ist im Rhythmus. Der Mann geht in die Endzone und wir werden getäuscht. Das Gefühl. Also das Set zu sein.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
mit einem Produktionsteam, hat mir die Schmerzen gescratcht. Es war so, als hätte ich die Schmerzen gescratcht, die ich nicht wusste, dass ich hatte. Und dann habe ich die Schmerzen gescratcht, die ich wusste.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Es war also eine große Sache für mich, zu lernen, was jeder Arbeit war, wie jeder Arbeit funktioniert, damit ich sie respektieren und mit ihnen kommunizieren kann. Und diese Kamera, die Arbeit der Filmemacherin, ist eine sehr wichtige Arbeit.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und es ist auch eine Sache, wenn du lernst, wenn du sagst, hey, ich will Filme machen, wirst du meistens eine Kamera holen und schnell lernen, dass du besser weißt, was du mit dieser Sache machst. Deine Filme werden scheißen. Weißt du, was ich meine? Und das Das war für mich super wichtig.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Oh ja, Mann. Ich war heute auf dem Telefon mit ihr. Ich musste ihr etwas für die Presse fragen. Weil wir Filme gefilmt haben. Und wir haben zwei sehr unangenehme Formate gedreht. Und Sinners? Ist das ein Film?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Oh Mann. Es ist lustig, ich habe mir diese Standees angeschaut, die sie gemacht haben, im Theater. Da sind zwei von ihnen und die Leute können rein und ein Bild nehmen. Und ich dachte mir, oh Mann, ich wundere mich, was für ein Bild da rauskommt. Ich lache mich gerade an.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, ich hatte ein tolles Visual Effects Team. Ich hatte einen Mann namens Michael Rowlett, der mein Visual Effects Supervisor war. Er wurde in Deutschland geboren. Er ist jetzt hier. Und ein anderer Name ist James Alexander. Er ist mein Produzent für Visual Effects. Wir haben viel Forschung und Planung gemacht. Wir konnten einige Techniken erreichen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
I knew who Mike was when I was coming out of film school. I was looking for somebody to play Oscar Grant. And I knew him from his work, from his television career and his film career. He did a film called Chronicle. und einem Film namens Red Tails. Sie kamen beide im Theater zusammen. Er war nicht der Führer all dieser Filme. Aber er hat genug gepoppt.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und bevor das, war er in vielen tollen Fernsehshows. Er war in The Wire als Kind. Und er war in ein paar Jason Kadams Shows. Er war in Parenthood und Friday Night Lights. Also die Leute wussten ihn. Er war... Er war witzig, weißt du was ich meine? Was ich gemacht habe, war zu ihm zu kommen und das war seine erste Chance, einen Film zu leiten. Ja, ja, ja, ja. Um den Leitpersonen zu sein.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und wo wir damit angefangen haben, bevor wir weitergehen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
I mean, she mentioned it to me. You know, like, so it's clear. That's why you put it in there. And being a parent now. Yeah. You know, like, I've been in situations where my kids, like, bump their heads and twist their ankle. And my mind is, like, racking my brain up. Hey, what could you have done better? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why'd you let them play on that? You should have been better.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
You know what I mean? So brutal. And, you know, so for that situation. Oh, my God. Like, I know, like, you know, she brought that up. She told me for a reason. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, like, um.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und es kam von ihr, zu sagen, dass sie das tun würde, was sie glaubte, wäre sicherer. Ja, natürlich. Weil ihre Angst war, dass er verhaftet wird. Ja, ja. Er war auf Papier. Du gehst in ein Auto, einer deiner Jungs hat eine Waffe auf ihm und einer deiner Jungs trinkt. Du gehst in eine große Gefängnis. Du gehst in eine Gefängnis. Sie werden dein Parol verurteilen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Also für sie war es so, man, lass uns das verhindern. Ja, ja, ja. Du weißt, du brauchst öffentliche Transport.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Was verrückt ist, ich habe Sly vor Fruitvale gemacht. Ja. Ich habe ihn gespielt, als wir ein paar Wochen aus der Produktion waren. Wir waren vielleicht eine Woche raus. Und ich bin nach L.A. gefahren und habe ihn gespielt. Und Kevin King und sein Agent damals, Adam Vinic. Ich habe sie gespielt, während ich mich vorbereitet habe, Frueville zu machen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und Stallone, rechtlich gesagt, er hat mich gehört und mir ein paar Autogramme geschenkt und mich auf den Weg geschenkt. Aber nachdem wir Fruville gemacht haben, war es großartig, dass Vinnick immer weiter geholfen hat. Und dann kam Stallone und kam wieder mit mir zusammen. Und er war bereit, mit mir zu arbeiten.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Erwin war cool mit mir. Beide waren cool mit mir.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, er war. Ja, ja, ja. Ich meine, es ist schwer, Mann. Ich meine, die Realität ist, ich steppe, wenn es um Erwin geht, Ich steige in eine 40-jährige Beziehung ein. Es war mein Job, alle respektvoll zu sein und zu stehen. Und sie zu vertreten. Ich wollte niemanden unterlassen. Ich wollte keinen Kampf machen. Sie haben eine schlechte Entscheidung gemacht. Das war ein großer Film.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, ein großer Film. Und dann Black Panther. Das Film hat die Welt verändert. Aber viele Leute wollten es sehen und ich bin sehr stolz auf diesen Film. Ich bin stolz auf sie alle.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und mit Creed war die Frage... Es war sehr viel in meiner Beziehung mit meinem Vater verbunden, weil seine Krankheit das erste Mal war, als ich ihn wirklich verletzt habe. Ich musste mit der Idee rechnen, dass der stärkste Mann, den ich kenne, möglicherweise sterben könnte. Ich sah ihn seine physische Kraft verlieren. Die Schwierigkeiten, die er mit dem hatte.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und dieses Konzept, es ist eine Liste aus dem Film, aber dieses Konzept von Zeit, das alle rausnimmt. Sie werden verletzt, was auch immer du... Zeit macht den stärksten Menschen schwach. Was ist das für eine Person? Was ist ihr Wert, wenn sie in diesem Zustand ist? Rocky war mein Vaters Film-Hero. Die Idee für mich war, einen Film zu machen, in dem Rocky etwas überwinden muss.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich denke, mein Vater würde das gerade genießen. Das ist so, wie es angefangen hat. Ich will meinen Vater auf diesen Film sehen, damit er sich besser fühlt. Genau. Es ist meistens so einfach für mich, Bruder. Aber dann wird es komplex. Aber das war das emotionale Herz davon. Und was ist mit Black Panther? Wie kam das zu dir? Ja, für das, Mann. Das war ein anderer Ballgame.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Das war eine offene Aufgabe. Und MCU war schon lange weg. Ich glaube, das war der 18. Film, den sie gemacht haben. Und... Musstest du es pitchen? Ich musste es nicht so viel pitchen. Ich meine, es war wie... Die Sache war, dass jeder in der Stadt wusste, dass sie es machen würden. Und sie sprachen mit einem meiner Freunde darüber, dass sie es machen würden. Als Schauspieler?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ihr Name ist Ava Duvernay, ein unglaublicher Filmmacher, ein unglaublicher Freund. Wir haben uns getroffen und sie ist sofort eine große Schwester für mich in der Industrie geworden. Sie hat mich geschaut. Sie hat mich in Situationen berücksichtigt. Sie hat mir gesagt, dass sie für diesen Job berücksichtigt wurde. Sie kam zu der Entscheidung, dass sie es nicht zusammen machen wird.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Aber sie fragte mich, warum ich es nicht mache. Sie fragte mich und ich war auf dem Spot. Ich wusste nicht, ob ich das machen könnte. Ich war am Schluss. Ich dachte nicht, dass sie mich nennen würden. Es ist auch eine große Verantwortung. Ich glaube, sie sind alle. Aber Jesus, Marvel. Es ist teuer. Ein großer, teurer Film. Und du willst es nicht verletzen. Du willst es nicht falsch machen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und es war auch eine Menge Angst, um einen Film zu machen, der so mächtig war. Weißt du, was ich meine? Was meinst du? Ich meine, sie... Sie haben eine Art und Weise, Dinge zu machen. Es ist ein System, das das Blockbuster auslöst. Von außen her gesehen, es sah so aus, als ob eine Narrative gebaut werden könnte, die Direktoren vielleicht anbieten könnten in der Prozession.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich hatte die Chance, mit ihnen zu treffen und ich fand, dass es nicht in die Narrative, die ich draußen hatte, passt. Sie fühlten sich, als wären sie Leute, mit denen ich arbeiten könnte.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Es ist interessant, weil... Ich meine, es ist ein Ja und Nein, richtig? Das andere, was Marvel so erfolgreich gemacht hat, war, dass sie in ihrer Arbeit, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten, sie hatten. Ich meine, wir sind in den letzten 10, 15 Jahren gelernt, seit 2008.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich würde sagen, das war der große Wachstum der Comic-Movie-Jahre. Und es ist wie die Erkenntnis, dass diese Dinge eine Kraft werden. Sie haben eine Goldmine an ihrer Hand. Ja. kreative Beiträge von wirklich klaren Leuten. Weißt du, was ich meine? Und du kannst von all dem ausgehen. Du kannst von all dem ausgehen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Das war das, was so interessant war, als ich begonnen habe, mit ihnen einen Film zu machen. Ich habe gesagt, hey, lass mich jeden Black Panther Comic, der je geschrieben wurde, holen. Und die haben gesagt, ja, wir sind bei dir. Und dann, boom, weißt du was ich meine? Es sind einfach wie Wälder, weißt du was ich meine? Sie haben einfach gesagt, ja, kein Problem. Und wie viele waren das?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Oh Mann, es war ein bisschen, weil ich es nicht mag, Dinge digital zu lesen. Ja. Weil sie zuerst es mir als PDF schicken werden. Ja. Weißt du was ich meine? Und ich schaue meine E-Mails oder so was, wie auf einem Tablet oder so was. Also habe ich gesagt, gib mir das physische Ding, damit ich die Gewichtung fühle, damit ich es lesen kann, wie ich es als Kind lesen würde, als ich ein Kind war. Ja.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
No problem. Boom, big ass binder. Like from 1960s to yesterday. And seeing who was writing what and how they drew the pictures and what appearance he was and who he interacted with. So you're not... Es war nicht Sinners. Ich beginne von der kompletten blanken Seite. Wer sind diese Leute? Was sind ihre Namen? Nichts davon. Es war wie, willst du diesen Charakter oder diesen Charakter?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, genau. Ja, 100 Prozent, Bro. Und mit dieser eröffneten Wissen und Fanbase kommen die Erwartungen. Und dann, was verrückt ist, in the success of that company, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Now you got expectations of the comics and now you got expectations of the movies. You know what I'm saying? So it's like exponential expectations.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Das ist richtig. Und das ist das, was passiert ist, glaube ich. Was gut für sie war, Bro. Für die Aufmerksamkeit. Und ehrlich gesagt, das gleiche ist mit Erwin und Slaw. Die Aufmerksamkeit, die es öffnen könnte, um unabhängige Leute, weißt du was ich meine?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, Herr. Ja, ja, ja, absolut, absolut. Du bist nicht falsch, Bro. Weißt du, das ist auch, was passiert. Und das ist Sachen, die ich als Filmmacher nicht verantwortlich nehmen kann, wenn Leute sagen, hey, Mann, wir gehen... Sight unseen on a movie. Hey, we gonna buy a theater for a bunch of kids to come see this. You know what I'm saying? They've seen the trailer maybe.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich meine, ich weiß nicht, die Zahlen, Mann. Ja, aber ich sage es einfach. Aber ich denke... Aber es ist so interessant, Bro, weil ich habe gerade mit Direktor Bong abgelaufen. Wir haben gesprochen und die Odyssey, Howlin' Wolf, Smokestack Lightning, wer ist das für? Wer ist das für? Das ist eine gute Frage mit dem Blues. Weißt du, was ich meine?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Aber das Ding ist, dass es 70- bis 80-jährige weiße Männer gibt. Ja, aber ich meine, das Ding ist, es ist für, wer es ist, aber es ist auch für jeden. Das ist richtig. Weißt du, was ich meine? Und das für mich war, was ich bemerkt habe. Schau, mein Vater hat Rocky 2 gesehen. und für Rocky gegrüßt. Mein Vater, ein blauer Mann aus Oakland, Kalifornien. Etwas passierte in der Magie in diesem Film.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Er grüßte den italienischen Jungen. Wie in einem Boxenfilm. Genau. Aber... I don't know the history of Rocky. And I'm a kid. And I'm like, Pop, why are you rooting for him? You know what I'm saying? This guy looks like you. You know what I mean? He's like, oh man, Apollo is the villain. You know what I'm saying? He's a heel. And I'm like, is he? You know what I'm saying? What is he doing?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
You know what I'm saying? Und ich habe den Film gesehen und ich habe mir gedacht, okay, ja, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist. You know what I'm saying? It's like, man, you gotta go get this dude. You know what I'm saying?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
100% wrong. Totally, man. That's also what I grew up with. That's also what I grew up with.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Yeah, I had a nervous breakdown making that movie, man. Maybe several. Did you keep it to yourself? Meine Schwester wusste es. Ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, hundert Prozent. Hundert Prozent, Bro. Hundert Prozent. Wir haben auch diese Struktur gefunden, Mann. Ich habe es lieb gemacht, diesen Film zu machen, Mann. Ich habe es lieb gemacht, diesen Film zu machen, Mann. Ich habe es lieb gemacht, diesen Film zu machen, Mann. Und ich fühlte mich, als hätte ich es verdient.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich fühlte mich, als hätte ich es verdient, was ich mit meinen anderen Filmen gemacht habe, um das zu tun.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Yes. Back to family, man, I had an uncle who was from Mississippi. He was like the oldest... Man in my family that I was around consistently. His name was Uncle James, James Edmonds. Blues music was all he would listen to. That was his get down. He would come home from work, he would put a Giants game on. San Francisco Giants. Baseball game on TV or on the radio. und habe einen Blues-Rekord.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Welche? Wie alt? Alle. Sein Mann war Albert King. Aber er hat alle gelesen. Und ich habe diese Songs mit Er. Blue was nicht mein Tee. Und diese Worte haben eine Bedeutung, die mit alten Dingen verbunden wurde. Und es fühlte sich auch nicht so an, als wäre es meines. Ich glaube, es gab einen Zeitpunkt, wo es in manchen Fällen weiß wurde.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich meine, dieser Film, wir können für Stunden darüber sprechen, aber ich habe nicht erkannt, wie tief du darin bist. In meiner Forschung habe ich herausgefunden, dass Und die Leute sprechen immer darüber. Das ist nicht meine Erfindung. Die Leute sprechen oft darüber. Aber man könnte den Argument machen, dass das Genre ist eine Erfindung von Rassismus.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Die Kategorisierung von verschiedenen Musiktypen ist im Grunde eine Form von Segregation. Oh, interessant. Musik wurde damals kommodifiziert. Es war ein Zeitpunkt, wo Segregation gebaut wurde. Wie erzähle ich Leuten, dass diese Musik von schweizer Menschen hergestellt wurde. Ich nenne es ein Rennrekord. Das Rennrekord wurde dann Blues oder Soul oder Rhythmenblues. In diesen Kategorisierungen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
And then they were eventually appropriated by the white culture.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
In a way. In a way, but also... Sie verabschieden ihn auch, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, sobald sie, Auch die Narrative, die in Teilen wahr ist, die Blues kamen aus dem Kontinent von Afrika. Das ist völlig richtig.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Aber was wir als Delta Blues und Amerikanische Blues erkennen, Es gab auch Beiträge aus der Choctaw-Gemeinschaft, Beiträge aus der irischen Gemeinschaft. Es gab all diese Beiträge. Die Rhythmen haben verändert. Ja, und alle diese Leute hatten eine Sache zusammen, auf die sie gestoppt wurden. Sie mussten sich weniger fühlen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Diese Idee, für mich, als ich in die Forschung ging, von dieser Musik, die mein Onkel liebte, oh shit, this is so profound. And also, everything that I ever loved that came out of popular culture came from this directly. I could draw a straight line back to, there was a reason I heard Nirvana and liked it immediately. Weißt du was ich meine? Weil das ist, was mein Onkel für mich gespielt hat.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Es geht nur um weiße Leute, weißt du was ich meine?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
A hundred percent. Yeah, I mean, it was not... In the curve of human history. But that shit was yesterday.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
So you were aware of all that. I was not. You became aware. Yeah, I dug into the history.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Oh, that's such a great question. So, oh man, bro. Alright, so... Es ist ein innerer Witz von Leuten, die mich kennen. Denn meine einzige Phobie sind Doppelgänger. Das ist die einzige Phobie, die ich habe. Das ist eine seltsame Frage. Super seltsame Frage, Bro. Wie jemand, der sich wie du ansieht? Es ist das Konzept des Doppelgängers. Wie der Doppel, der ein Doppelgänger ist. Okay.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Weißt du, was ich meine? Es war extra verrückt in diesen Jahren. Meine Familie hat eine Menge Zwillinge. Meine Mutter hat identische Zwillinge, alle sind Schwestern. Eine von ihnen ist meine Gottmutter. Sie lebt gerade neben der Tür, bis heute. Ich habe Cousins, mein Onkel James. Seine Großmütter sind fraternale Zwillinge.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und einer von ihnen hat einfach das Geburtstag von fraternen Zwillingen dieses Jahr. Es ist ein konstant in meiner Familie. Aber ja, ich wollte mit die Archetypen mit diesem Film. Ich wollte es wie eine Blues-Song fühlen, wie etwas, das du vorher gehört hast, auch wenn du es zum ersten Mal gehört hast.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Also habe ich viele Archetypen gespielt und ich war besessen mit der Idee der Gangster-identischen Twins, weil das ein Thema ist, das existiert. in verschiedenen Kulturen. In der Mythologie. Aber auch in der Leben.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Manchmal sind sie nur Brüder. Weißt du, was ich meine? Oh, die Kray Brothers. Die Krays. Die Krays, die waren Twins. Ja. Aber du hast, du hast, du hast, du hast, du hast, du hast, du hast, du hast, Und dieser DJ, eine Warren G-Song. Und das ist G-Funk, oder? Es ist wie G-Funk ist super bluesig, West Coast Hip-Hop, oder? Seine Song endet, wo er sagt, ich weiß noch, wie ich sie beenden kann.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und wenn du mir nicht glaubst, geh auf die Twins fragen. Das ist so, wie es endet. Er sagt, ich stehe noch in den Straßen. Und wenn du mir nicht glaubst, geh auf die Twins fragen. Sie sind noch mehr Gangster als ich. Sie werden meine Geschichte ausrechnen. Ja, ja, ja. Und ich habe Leute aus anderen Städten getroffen. Wenn du die Twins aufbringst, hat jeder seine Städte.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Wo es so ist, oh ja, die Twins, die haben das gemacht. Es ist so, dass es wirklich ein Ding ist. In der Black-Kultur ist es ein Ding, in der White-Kultur ist es ein Ding. Wenn du in einer Städte bist und jemand ist glücklich genug, mit einer Schwester geboren zu werden, die sich so wie sie sieht, dann haben sie automatisch einen Vorteil. Sie werden lokal Celebriten werden. Weißt du was ich meine?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Die werden Tricks auf die Leute machen und dann gehen sie weg.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Genau. Und für diese Sache habe ich viel Forschung gemacht. In den Identitären Twins und in der Psychologie. Und ich habe zwei... Filmmaker-Freunde aus Northern California, diese weißen Jungs, die in die Nordsee gekommen sind. Noah und Logan Miller. Die Filmmaker kamen als Baseballspieler als erstes.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Horace Scrabble-Jungs, die in Hollywood gebrochen wurden, ohne Nepotismus, nichts davon, alles nur Grün. Ich habe mit ihnen gesprochen, und ich dachte, ich muss euch offiziell mit dem machen. Sie wurden unsere Zwischen-Konsultanten. Oh, interessant. Und sie haben mit mir und Mike gearbeitet. Speziell darüber, wie es mit diesen Jungs sein würde. Ja. Weißt du, wie ich meine?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich schaue nach dem Zeitpunkt, als sie kamen. Weißt du, wie ihre Hintergrundgeschichte ist. Und einfach das Konzept, wie Noah und Logan es beschreiben, ist für sie, dass jeder seltsam ist. Ja. Weil sie sehen, dass jeder seltsam ist. Alle sind auf dem Weg, um ihn zu finden. Er sagte, wenn du ein identitäres Zwischenverhältnis hast, macht es dich automatisch hyper-konspiratorisch.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Du bist used to people staring at you. Strangers coming up to you, talking to you. People asking you weird questions. It was also a funny time when I was talking to them. Und ich habe gemerkt, dass wenn ich mit ihnen bin und in ihrer Präsenz bin, sitzen sie immer direkt neben sich. Oder sie stehen Seite für Seite.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Und ich habe sie mal gefragt, habe ich gesagt, hey Mann, macht ihr das immer mit Leuten? Und sie haben gesagt, ja. Und ich habe gesagt, ist das für euch, oder ist das für uns? Und sie haben gesagt, es ist für dich. Sie haben gesagt, sobald ich ein Problem mit dir habe, werden wir sich trennen. Und in eine Position kommen, wo du nur einen von uns sehen kannst. Weißt du, was ich meine?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
So I thought that was so interesting. They know the effect. If they're not next to each other, it freaks people out. Where's the other guy? Womit spreche ich? Ist das nicht interessant? Aber das Konzept, so aufgewachsen zu sein, und was das für die Psyche macht. Es ist lustig, weil es ziemlich unvergleichbar war.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
neunmal aus zehn haben sie völlig andere Persönlichkeiten, aber die Unterschiede zwischen ihnen sind sehr subtil, weißt du was ich meine? Sie sind immer zusammen. Also sind sie im Grunde die gleiche Person, aber subtil. Aber wenn du sie alleine bekommst, dann kommt die Unterschiede wirklich heraus. Und du hast das durch Frauen gemacht. Und auch durch die Struktur, wie ich es wusste.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Aber in Bezug auf das Aktivieren. Oh ja, 100 Prozent. Wegen dem, mit wem sie verliebt sind. Das ist wirklich unterschiedlich, welcher Typ der Person das ist. Und auch viel Arschlöcher-Sprache.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, das ist es in einem Film. Ich meine, wir haben Spaß, Mann. Es ist viel... Es ist sexy, Mann. Ja, viel zu sprechen über all das. Aber die Idee von... Weil ich mich immer gefragt habe, warum Vampire so sexistisch sind. Warum sind sie synonymisch mit Sexualität? Warum sind sie die sexistischen Monster? Warum sind sie die sexistischen Monster? Weißt du, was ich meine?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Du musst nicht sagen, es sind sexistische Vampire. Es gibt eine Intimität dazu. Und es ist wie ein Verheirat. Ja, Sir. Das ist das, was so groß ist. Und die Sache ist... Der Vampir ist für eine gewisse Weise gleichwertig. Sie müssen eingeladen werden. Wo sie zocken, zocken sie den Nacken. Es ist eine sexuelle Situation.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Nein, ehrlich gesagt, wo das herkommt, Ich hatte große Cousins. Ich war wie die Twins. Weißt du was ich meine? Und das ist der Typ von Sachen, über die sie reden. Und das ganze Ding war so, er ist, weißt du, er ist raus. Sein Vater ist Precher. Weißt du was ich meine? Er ist der Älteste. Er hat ein paar kleine Schwestern.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Also was sind seine Cousins, was ist das für ein Scheiß, was werden seine Cousins ihm über das Leben erzählen? Weißt du was ich meine? Und Smoke, die ganze Idee hinter ihm und seiner Performance, was that he's like a grandpa. You know what I'm saying? He's the caretaking twin. The other twin is a pimp. He's like hyper-sexualized. You know what I mean?
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
And if you ever meet those guys, what makes those guys those guys is... Sie haben eine höhere Verständnis für das, wie die Welt aus einer Frauenperspektive aussieht. Das ist, wie sie Frauen überzeugen, verrückte Sachen zu machen. Die ganze Idee war, dass er ihnen... Das ist eine sehr nützliche, ehrgeizige Hinweise für diese Situation. Das ist, wo die Idee kommt.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ich glaube, das ganze Ding funktioniert wirklich gut.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, das ist er. Das ist sein Akustik. Oh mein Gott. Wer ist auf dem elektrischen Lead? Auf den Krediten. Okay, das ist Eric Gales. Ja, und auch Kingfish. Oh ja, ich habe gerade Kingfish gesehen. Kingfish ist in den Filmen gesehen, aber das ist Eric Gales, den du da hörst. Ja, oh wow. Aber in der letzten Szene, das ist er, über den du gefragt hast. Ja, ja, oh gut. Keine Veränderungen, das ist er.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, er ist großartig. Es ist seltsam, ihn zu sehen, ihn zu spielen, oder? Ja, ja.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Ja, ich kann es. Ich kann es. Ich kann es. Ich kann es. Ich kann es. Ich kann es. Ich hatte eine Freundin, die Dekora hieß. Sie helfte Menschen mit Behinderung zu finden, um sie auf ihre Arbeit zu vermitteln. Als ich Creed 1 gemacht habe, war sie immer bei mir, wenn ich Filme gemacht habe, auch in der Filmschule. Sie produzierte immer.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Es war keine offizielle Sache, weil ich in der Filmschule war. Ein Teil der Schule, weißt du was ich meine? Und ich war in Fruitville. Sie arbeitete ihre 9-5, aber sie würde kommen. Sie arbeitete 8-Tage-Tage. Wir arbeiteten 12-Tage-Tage. Und sie würde aus der Arbeit gehen und direkt ins Set kommen.
WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1634 - Ryan Coogler
Als ich Creed hatte, hat sie entschieden, dass sie mit mir nach Philadelphia kommen wollte, um für mich zu sein. Sie musste einen Abstand von ihrem Job verlassen. Aber dann wurde sie als unabhängiger Vertreterin, als unabhängiger Interpreterin eingeladen. Sie wurde von einer Agentur in Philadelphia eingeladen, während wir dort waren. Sie arbeitete dort. Oh wow, ja, ja, ja.