Robert Garcia
Appearances
Morning Wire
Trump Speech Fallout & Sanctuary Mayors Testify | 3.6.25
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Morning Wire
Trump Speech Fallout & Sanctuary Mayors Testify | 3.6.25
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Morning Wire
Trump Speech Fallout & Sanctuary Mayors Testify | 3.6.25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
What's going on? I mean, look, this is what Elon Musk has been all about. I think that it's all chaos. It's complete destruction of the federal bureaucracy. And it's also incredibly damaging and hurtful to so many people. I've talked to so many people back home who are frightened. They feel like they're losing their job. They don't know what to do. They had to respond. Elon's crazy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
Send me the five things you did for the week. email, which then retracted. So just a lot of chaos and confusion. And obviously, at the same time, Elon Musk and his tech bro crew are lying and they're putting out savings that are not really happening. And so it's clear. The one thing that's clear with all of this is that Elon Musk is pulling the strings.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
And he, for all intents and purposes, is the president. Donald Trump has advocated all of his power and responsibility to Elon Musk. And Elon Musk gets richer by the day. He was just getting more and more and more wealthy. And being the richest man on the planet is not enough for Elon Musk.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
a psycho i don't know what what in the world yeah i i'm not sure how you can say in one breath that you're being incredibly transparent uh and then and just right after then basically say that she's not gonna reveal who the administrator is of their their largest splashiest uh you know agency that they somehow created out of thin air so it no it's it's
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
it's crazy at the same time we have to take it very seriously that they are ca they are causing uh massive harm you know and elon musk is of course doing all this as we know and if you have said many times uh so that he can give himself a huge tax break i mean he wants to be even more wealthy he wants his billionaire buddies and his companies to get larger tax breaks and the only way to do that is to dismantle the federal bureaucracy dismantle the federal government
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
And then, of course, damage it so much that then he and his pals can go around and scoop up contracts to then rebuild and build better products for the government. It's a complete sham, and it's got to be called out. And I'm glad that you're seeing Democrats on the ground right now starting to get really fired up about it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
Well, no, I think something's definitely happening. I've been home and talking to folks these last few days. And what you hear from everyone is that there is concern about Elon Musk. And certainly there's more concern amongst Democrats. And you have some Republicans that are in the tank for Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
But a lot of people that are just maybe they may not be super political, but there might be independents or Republican leaning.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
they all don't understand what elon musk is doing and they're all hearing stories about a friend who may have lost a job or uh you know a family member that may have been in the park service or worked for the va and now having to essentially be frightened about keeping their jobs and not knowing if they actually have a future for themselves and their family so you are hearing that and i do think
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
You know, a lot of Republicans want to blame, oh, these are just Democrats coming to these town halls for Republicans. I mean, that's just not true. Yes, there are all types of folks that come to these town halls, but a lot of Republicans and independents are also coming to these town halls for Republicans because they're pissed. They're upset.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
And so there is a shift on the ground that is happening. We just got to continue moving it. And we've got to continue to honestly encourage it because Republicans need to hear from people in their districts.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
So, I mean, look, they've asked us to clarify our remarks. There's nothing to clarify. A metaphor is a metaphor. I've been using figurative speeches my whole life. We all have. And I'm not going to be silenced or backed down because Elon Musk or Donald Trump get offended by something I say. I mean, we should be encouraging folks to bring the fire to our to our debates.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
We should be encouraging folks to be tough in this moment, not to retreat. So we're not going to back down on that. But look, I will see what they choose to take as the next step. This US attorney has said that he's opening up this investigation. I'm not sure what much there is to investigate. I said what I said on CNN.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
It was out in the public sphere and no reasonable person would assume that I said anything that was threatening. a figure of speech. I mean, saying that you think, you know, that the American people want us to bring weapons to this bar fight, that's a figure of speech. And I think we all know that. So we'll see what they do, but we're going to keep being loud and strong.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
And like I've told other Democrats, we can't be intimidated by these tactics.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
Now, Elon Musk, what are you afraid of? Don't be afraid of coming in front of our committee is what I would say to Elon Musk. I'm not sure what there is that he's so afraid of folks like myself or Jasmine Crockett or Maxwell Frost. Just come before us, allow us to ask you some questions to get to the bottom of what's going on. And you should be able to stand in front of the American public
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Congressman Robert Garcia on Trump Chaos
And be honest about what you're actually trying to do. And I think that's something that we've asked for. Republicans shot that motion down unanimously. They don't want Elon Musk to testify because they don't want to be held accountable. It's quite cowardly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
FIRED UP Dems go ON OFFENSE against GOP in First HEARING
Play the clip. That was a lot. And first, I think the people of California and the West absolutely deserve an apology for politicizing fires that are actually killing people right now and where people are losing their homes. And the idea that somehow you want to politicize those and say that those were caused by crazy conspiracy theories.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
FIRED UP Dems go ON OFFENSE against GOP in First HEARING
I don't think anyone should take any advice on how fires are created, certainly by someone that has said space lasers actually create forest fires. And so that deserves an apology to the people of California.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I think you're probably a better judge of that than I am. But my perception is it's just hard to connect the dots here for the average person. It's got a lot of other things to worry about in life. And this is not the kind of thing, at least not right now, where, you know, like your garbage is not picked up. You're going to know that right away.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Or, you know, your Social Security check doesn't come. That's been in the – that's a – you know, those are immediate things. This is really the infrastructure that's built an environment where we have access to safe and effective products and safe food. And we're seeing a reduction in the toll of tobacco. This is being undercut as we speak.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And I worry that the lingo that's being used makes it even more difficult because I can say for sure anyone who's worked in federal government can think of a lot of ways to make it better. And it was certainly my experience in my two terms as commissioner that the workforce wanted to make it better.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And so you can say waste, fraud, and abuse, but that's not what we're talking about here for the most part. We're really talking about the core functions of the government that enable the ecosystem to produce these products that we all depend on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Well, I'd say generally yes right now, and it's a matter of what happens after this. You know, we have a new commissioner, and I want to give him a chance to – lay out the plan about how things are going to be built back up.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
But, you know, we've been riding on a wave of work for decades now that involve both Republican and Democrat administrations with a civil service which has maintained this infrastructure, which I believe is so important. The analogy I'm using for people to grasp sort of allegorically is Humpty Dumpty.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And you'll notice if you read Project 2025, the goal right now has been to essentially destroy the federal government as it existed. And then in an unspecified way, there's going to be some building back up. So let's give the new FDA commissioner a chance before we condemn it. But I think we all need to keep a very close eye on it because we're You're certainly right.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Even the remaining employees don't know day to day if they're going to get fired. And they're spoken about so disrespectfully when anyone who's worked in the government knows these people are working hard and very dedicated to the mission. So the sort of language that's being used, I think, is not helping the public grasp what's going on. Can we spend a moment on that, too?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
The brain drain is already occurring and has occurred to a large extent. Many of the most experienced, knowledgeable people have left already, either because they were fired or because they saw the handwriting on the wall and sought other jobs. And these people are highly employable, at least they have been up until now, because
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
uh, the skills to understand, let's say drug development or, uh, what the factors are and save for nutritious food. Um, these are highly qualified people. So of course, right now, uh, those that are being fired and having a hard time finding a job because universities are also not hiring and the industry is getting filled up with, uh, people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
So there's going to be a problem, uh, in the short term. But there's no question that losing institutional knowledge, the understanding of how things work, where the risks are. I mean, Ben, one thing I feel like I have to say over and over, if we just take drugs, nine out of 10 drugs that get into human clinical trials don't make it to market either because...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
they have an unexpected toxicity or because they engage the target the drug is going after, but it doesn't have the benefit that was expected. And to know that, you have to do these very complicated clinical trials. I think a better way to describe them is human experiments, which is what they are, people volunteering to put their lives on the line. You referred to
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
One, but it's one of many clinical trials. Imagine that you volunteered for a human experiment, you're in the middle of it, and the government decides to just stop funding it out of the blue with one day's notice. You may be on an experimental drug, you're getting medical care related to this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
It's really a lot of evidence that sort of software engineering is being used to do this with anonymous emails from people who actually don't have content knowledge about what's going on. That's why now that we have a new confirmed commissioner, I'm hopeful that he will put things back in order and build it up, but we've really got to keep an eye on this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Could I mention one other thing that I think is really important right now? We have a Secretary of Health and Human Services who's written that viruses and bacteria don't cause illness and who is suing the government to make it almost impossible to distribute vaccines.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Some of the very basics that our public health system depends on are being undermined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, which I, hard to imagine that could have even happened. Now, there's a slogan, Make America Healthy Again. I hope, like me, that you think that's a really good idea. And it actually really is true that our food system, while safe from viral and bacterial infections,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
It's not nutritious. The easiest thing to do for Americans when it comes to buying food is to buy stuff which is not healthy. Totally on board on better nutrition and exercise, but you can't treat measles with cod liver oil. So imagine you're coming to work at the FDA and you're working on vaccines. Let's take the HPV vaccine.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
it's almost eliminated cervical cancer in women let's say you're working on that and your boss's boss is saying can't trust this stuff it you know may not work it's an individual decision But it's a very difficult work environment, almost like you feel like you can't tell the truth, because if you do, you're going against your boss and your boss's boss.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I mean, as you know, Ben, there's a long history of the independence of these federal agencies to do their jobs, and it's sort of at two levels. The commissioner is a political appointment, and I was one of those. So you understand that you come in reflecting the values of the president. It's a presidential appointment with senatorial confirmation.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
But then the decisions about individual products are not made by the commissioner. That's only happened a couple of times in the history of the FDA. Those decisions are made by full-time civil servants. But all but two of those people at that top level that have accountability for those decisions have been fired. And so now there are going to be appointments made.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Well, and here's a place where I wouldn't expect an average member of the public I mean, it's complicated to get involved in this. I think those of us who are professionally involved need to really be keeping a close eye on this. Are we going to appoint people with deep knowledge of, let's say, drug approval, device safety, food safety?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Are they going to be appointed into these roles, or will they be people who have a political allegiance to a particular agenda? And I think there's a lot of reason to believe it's going to be the latter, and people have to keep a close eye on that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I mean, all the people in those jobs, they don't come and go with administrations. They are part of civil service.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
You know, what I'd say is I'm not very sure that this administration is going to look carefully at vaccine safety. And I think there will be a lot more studies done. I'm more worried about the other side of the coin. When there's a benefit, are the vaccines going to be promoted? And, you know, as you all know, I think for the average person, it may be worthwhile thinking in terms of
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
two dimensions. There are vaccines like measles and polio, where unless over 90, 95% of the population is vaccinated, you're putting everybody at risk, not just your child or yourself, but your neighbors, children themselves. There are others like COVID and flu, which, you know, don't eliminate the virus, but they reduce the risk of dying or being hospitalized. And
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Reduced transmission somewhat, but not the huge effect. It's those ones that eliminate the virus completely where the big worry is now because we had gotten rid of polio and measles. Now measles is back, and if we don't get more vaccination done, we're going to have polio back.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
But it's also true that vaccine biology has really advanced, and the availability of messenger RNA vaccines gives us the ability to knock out a lot of other diseases much more effectively. But if you fundamentally don't believe vaccines are beneficial, it's going to put a big drag on the system.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And here's where, um, what you, one nice thing that's developed in across countries is, you know, we have the EMA in Europe and we have the Canadian regulators and we have a growing number of sophisticated, um, Asian regulators.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And if the U S government is falling behind, I think we'll be able to look to other countries and see what they're doing and, uh, put pressure on to make sure that we, that we keep up. But, um, So I'm less worried about safety. We'll hear all about safety in great detail, I'm sure. And I'm not opposed to that. All interventions have risks. I'm a cardiologist. You're an intensivist.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
You know that a lot of things that we do that have a net benefit in some people, it causes injuries.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Well, when you talk about broader HHS, It's a bit different, I think, than the FDA in that some of the impacts are very immediate. People that were getting access to helpful medical care at community centers where the funding was cut, massive cuts to the public health infrastructure that many of our most vulnerable people are very dependent on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
You know, I am unretired from Duke University again, so I'm looking at universities. A lot of the people entering graduate school had their acceptances revoked because there's no money to pay them because the funding has been dramatically cut for training programs.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
This means we'll have fewer scientists, fewer knowledgeable people, much higher risk that things will slip through the system that are unsafe when it comes to drugs and devices, higher risk of unsafe food. Now, all this is contingent on, you know, what happens now. Are things going to be rebuilt in the Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
I hope so, too. It's been great working with you over the years and look forward to working together more in the future. Sorry about all the background noise, but be getting boarding soon. So please take care. Thanks, Dr. Califf. Talk to you soon.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Well, Ben, it's great to be with you in almost the inaugural episode. It's really an honor. So looking forward to our discussion.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Well, I'll be interested in what your main questions are that you think might be of greatest use to the audience, but a brief. overview, I think as almost everybody knows now, there was a massive purge of the federal workforce within Health and Human Services, including the FDA.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Remember that we had already lost a number of people if they had diversity, equity, or inclusion in their job description. They were basically fired on the first day. And then there were a series of firings if you were a Federal terms means that you're less than two years into either your first employment with the government or you've been promoted.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And you're less than two years into that promotion. And basically, if you're in that category, then there was a significant number of people let go. But then this week, 3,500 FDA employees were fired. It was done, as the first two were, in an almost brutal way that really shows lack of concern for the human beings who were involved.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
In this case, it sounds like the message went out at 5 to 15 a.m., but many people... had their privileges disconnected, so they didn't get the message, and people showed up for work and then couldn't get in. So you end up with a very public scene where you have some people in a line of people who have been fired and other people in a line that's trying to get through.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
So there are sort of two big aspects to this. One is the way we treat our fellow human beings in a situation of employment. For most people in the public, though, nothing they can do about that. The question is, what's the impact? Many of us are extremely worried that we now don't have enough people with enough institutional knowledge to conduct a business that we all rely on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
The development and evaluation of medical products, the inspections that keep our food safe, the success we've had in reducing deaths from tobacco, which is... still underway, all the things that the FDA does. But in addition to that, this is happening all across health and human services.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
So if we take a problem like the H5N1 pandemic potential with that bird flu virus, that requires a lot of coordination between the FDA, which regulates the milk, the USDA that regulates the cows and the chickens and the CDC that regulates the farm workers who are most primarily affected. And many of the people that were working on that problem were fired.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And it was done in a way which gave them no chance to hand off their responsibilities. It's sort of like you're a basketball coach. I'm a big basketball fan, as you know, and it's March Madness. I am a blue devil, I have to say. But can you imagine that you put in a substitution and you don't have an assignment for the new guy coming in?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And the guy coming out doesn't relay what was going on on the court. It just makes no sense.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
Well, I think there are many analogies that are all kind of similar for something like this. And maybe pothole repair is an easy example to grasp. If you decide I want to cut the city budget, the expenses, you could say we're not going to fix any potholes for the next couple of years. And right away, you don't notice anything different.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
But then over time, the risk of something bad happening goes up incrementally over time, and eventually someone's going to hit a pothole and something bad is going to happen. And so, I mean, we have industries in America and globally that supply America that produce pretty good products.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And so you wouldn't see something right away for the average person, but there will be harm done by products that are deficient that didn't get inspected on time. or safety reports that go out. One place that was cut substantially was the communications part of government. Someone's got to actually notify people when there's a safety problem.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
The company has a role, but I don't think we want the companies taking full accountability for that. That's problems there is part of what led to the FDA being in place in the first place. But a place, just to mention one group I'm particularly worried about where who could see really big losses from expectations would be people with rare disease.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
You're very aware, Vin, that we're on the threshold of treatments and cures for hundreds of thousands of diseases that were previously completely untreatable because of gene editing and other ways to affect the human genome. This is not possible until just now. But it's very complicated and it's a risky development process that needs a lot of interaction with the FDA.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
And we're already seeing, for example, investors backing off because of the uncertainty as to whether there's enough staff left at FDA to work with the industry to develop these treatments. So I mean, this is not a matter like many of the diseases you and I deal with. I'm a cardiologist. We have a lot of treatments already. We're talking about people with no other treatment.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Meidas Health, Episode 2: Dr. Gupta and Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf
It's just one extreme example.