Rich Shapiro
Appearances
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
We have no idea. Neither do her attorneys or other people I've spoken to who had previously been in contact with her.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
There is actually a hearing in the California murder on Thursday and in Teresa's case in Vermont on Friday. So there'll be more to come soon, I think.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Yes. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
That is the most far out story I think I've ever heard in my life.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Teresa and the young woman who bought her the guns were in frequent contact with a third person, who is a person of interest in another murder, this one in California.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Sure thing.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Yeah, so what we know from the criminal complaint filed against Teresa Youngblood is that on January 14th, a hotel employee calls law enforcement to say that two people... wearing black tactical gear and masks have checked in, one of them has a, quote, apparent firearm in an exposed carry holster. That's Teresa. Then law enforcement begins to surveil them.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Days later, investigators are watching Teresa and the person with her, who we now know as Ophelia Bockholt. And they see Ophelia go into a Walmart while Teresa waits in the car. Ophelia comes out with aluminum foil and while sitting in the passenger seat, wraps objects in the foil. That's something people do to prevent their cell phones from being tracked by law enforcement. A couple hours later,
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
three Border Patrol cars with lights on pull over the Prius. Teresa gets out of the car and stands by the driver's side door. And then, according to the federal prosecutors in Vermont, Teresa drew her Glock and fired at least twice. Ophelia tried to draw her weapon, but didn't fire. And at least one Border Patrol agent fired at least seven bullets.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
One of those agents was shot and died at the hospital. Ophelia was shot and pronounced dead at the scene. And Teresa was also shot, but not killed.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
We do not. At this point, Teresa is facing two counts. One is assault with a deadly weapon while resisting or interfering with federal law enforcement. And the other is a weapons charge.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
They found quite a large collection of tactical gear. That included two full-face respirators, gas masks essentially, 48 rounds of hollow-point ammunition. They also found Youngblood's journal.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Not really. In a motion for detention that the federal prosecutor filed last week, the government says that she wrote in a cipher, a code. But they are using Teresa's associations to figure out what she and Ophelia may have been up to more than what was in her journal.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
In the detention document, the prosecutor says that the guns Teresa and Ophelia had on them in the car were purchased by a person of interest in a double homicide that happened in Pennsylvania two years ago, and that Teresa and the woman who bought her the guns were in frequent contact with a third person, who was a person of interest in another murder, this one in California.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Jack Lasoda, who also goes by Ziz. She uses female pronouns.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Yeah. So it appears through a close read of the court documents that Ziz was at the scene or had a connection to people who were involved in all of these crimes.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Yeah, so Ziz is somewhat of an enigma. She's from Alaska. She got a degree in computer science. She is very, very serious about veganism. She used to operate her own blog. where in one post, she asked someone if they were vegan by saying, do you consume the flesh of the innocent? She would only hire lawyers who are vegans, and she attracted followers, for lack of a better word.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
They lived communally in Vallejo, California. They were living on the property of an elderly man, and a number of these people, if not all, were trans women.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
So it kind of depends on who you ask. There are people in this community, folks in the Bay Area who have come into contact with Ziz, and they describe Ziz as someone who is manipulative and preys on a certain type, that being trans women who are socially isolated and open to these kind of big ideas.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
So what do her followers believe? The Lesotho group, who've come to be known as Zizians, they have some unusual beliefs. And the main one is that each human being is essentially made up of... Two people. They have two minds. Most people have one good and one bad, and these are in conflict with each other.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
In 2022, Curtis Lind, who owned the property where Ziz was living, survived a brutal attack by some of the Zizians. He was impaled with a samurai sword and lost an eye, but he survived. Ziz has not been charged in the attempted murder, but we know that she was at the scene. Curtis Lind, he shot at his attackers and one of them died.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
So the two surviving attackers were charged with attempted murder and aggravated mayhem. Curtis Lind was going to be the star witness at their trial in April. Prosecutors say exactly when Teresa and Ophelia were driving around Northern Vermont being watched by the police, Maximilian Snyder, Teresa's high school classmate killed Lind to prevent him from testifying.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Ziz's hometown paper in Alaska actually published an obituary for her. And that isn't even the only fake death in the group. Several years ago, on the same day in August 2022 that the Coast Guard was searching the bay looking for Ziz's body, a lawyer told the California court that he believed his client, Gwen Danielson, had died by suicide. Ziz and Gwen, they stayed on the tugboat together.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Now, as in last month, Gwen's father has spoken to some media outlets saying that Gwen left the Zizians but is alive and maybe now will come forward and talk about what the group is trying to do or has done now that Ziz is in custody.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Yeah, that's right. On Monday. We hope to hear more. It will also be interesting to see if another law enforcement agency will try to take them into custody to get some answers about what happened to Michelle's parents.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Thank you so much.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
My pleasure.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
It wasn't violent, but this wasn't your typical police encounter. First off, according to the probable cause statement, these people were all dressed in black and they were well-armed. In one of the trucks, police found a rifle and a handgun. Two of the Zizians were wearing ammo belts, and one of them had another gun in her waistband.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
And all three resisted arrest by refusing to tell the police their names and not giving them their IDs.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
There were two other people. There was a person named Michelle Zajko and a man named Daniel Blank. Now, Michelle's parents were murdered in their home about two years ago. And according to the probable cause statement in the Maryland arrest, Daniel is under investigation for their homicide.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
According to the Pennsylvania State Troopers, Michelle owned a gun and ammunition of the same type that was used in the murders. And they actually tracked her down to a hotel looking for that gun. They served her with a search warrant for that gun, but she didn't have it. And they instead found it in a different room in the hotel. And that room was occupied by Daniel Blank and Ziz Lasoda.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
They didn't charge anyone with the homicide, although Ziz was so uncooperative that she was arrested on charges of obstructing the investigation. She essentially played dead, one of the troopers said in court. She wouldn't tell the troopers her name or even get up off the ground. So they had to physically carry her out of the room. And she even kept her eyes closed in the mugshot.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Ziz ultimately made bail, but then skipped town and a bench warrant was issued.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
There's still a lot we don't know about this group, but what we do know is they're really concerned about AI, about artificial intelligence. Of course, ChatGPT and companies like OpenAI are full steam ahead now on artificial intelligence and are worth billions of dollars. But about 10 to 15 years ago, there were some very smart people who thought AI could turn against humans eventually.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
almost like a Terminator storyline. And these people took it really seriously, congregating online and in the Bay Area. And these Zizians, they splintered off from this broader group. They seem to have taken these concerns about AI destroying humanity to a different level.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
And they seem to have believed that basically anything that would stop this threat from becoming real was justified, even violence. And they saw themselves as being potential heroes in the future for being ones who could prevent that.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Yeah, the box truck lifestyle, it's really related to how insanely expensive housing is in the Bay Area. These young people moved there to be part of this AI-focused community that But not all of them could get jobs in the field or make enough money. So there's a lot of group houses, there's roommates, some squatting.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
And Ziz came up with the idea of living on a boat to try to avoid the high rents. She and some compatriots bought a tugboat in Alaska and piloted it down to the San Francisco Bay. But the plan ultimately fell apart. The tugboat sank and Ziz moved the group to box trucks.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Yeah, so Ziz spoke and spoke out of turn quite frequently.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
And her concern was the diet that the jail had been giving her. She said it wasn't vegan. And so she was starving, essentially.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
And she also talked about being almost delirious and that that made it such that she couldn't really help in her defense.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
They were not released. The prosecutor had pointed out Ziz's flight from prosecution in Pennsylvania. And a footnote in this story that we haven't even talked about.