Reshma Saujani
Appearances
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
I mean, I always say, like, if I had applied to be the CEO of Girls Who Code, I wouldn't have gotten the job. I didn't code. I'd never coded before. Yeah. Right? Like, I majored in polyscience speech communications. And the only thing I'd ever built was a failed campaign.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, those coding jobs, they paid a lot, like $120,000 a year. And when I saw that girls and girls of color, poor girls, were not going into these fields, in my mind, like they weren't going into the fields that would help them like march up into the middle class and change their entire trajectory for them and their families. And that's what like drove me crazy.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
to coding and technology.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Yeah, and you're working on this now. Also, like the things that they're going to create, like bullying, right? Like what are they doing on these problems that they experience, right? Whether it's bullying, whether it's health, whether it's sexual harassment, right? Like if they know how to code, they can build tools that are going to help solve problems that are faced by women and girls.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
So, okay. I thought nonprofits are slow. They don't get anything done. Like nothing happens. Like it's just, it's not for me. Right. Like I want to be where the action is. I want to be where the real change is. So I ran Girls Who Code and now Moms First like a tech company. Oh, interesting.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Big scale, big numbers, hard driving, big change, KPIs, destination where we want to go with like essentially like a nonprofit lens. So it was always kind of like unicorns and rainbows. I'll be honest. Right. Like sometimes you have an idea and the world just changes. collides to make that happen. And so Girls Who Code was a little like that, right?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
From the beginning, people like, oh, yeah, this needs to exist.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
How do you get funders? So here's the thing. I very early on at Girls Who Code got Jack Dorsey to support it. And back then, everybody was like, oh, Jack's doing it? Great. And I'll say with Moms First, it was you. Like very early on, you were like, oh, paid leave? This movement? Moms? Yes. And I think the thing is for people and entrepreneurs, it does help to get an early adopter. Hmm.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
especially one that people admire and that people want to follow and see as a guidepost. And so, yeah, for Girls Who Code, it was really Jack. And for Moms First, it was you and Melinda.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
That's a good tip. All right. I'm taking that one to the bank.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
So, you know, I... knew it was time to step away from Girls Who Code. One, because I actually don't think anyone should run anything for more than eight years. And then two, this energy I was feeling around motherhood and Moms First and this need to fight for childcare and paid leave, like there was something I knew that I wanted to do.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
So I had this amazing CEO who's now our CEO, Dr. Tarika Barrett, and I'd always wanted her to run the organization. And so it's like middle of COVID. I know it's time. And one, I know if I tell anybody that I want to step down, including my husband, he's going to talk me out of it. So I don't tell anybody. I get on a train. I like basically say, Tariq, I need to meet with you.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And I'm like, I'm ready. And I think you're ready. And she said, all right, let's go. So one, I think it was so important for me to pick a successor, especially a woman of color, and give her the opportunity of like the fruits of my labor, right? Because building Girls Who Code almost killed me, Megan. You know, I was always on a plane. I was always just hustling.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
But I had built something that I knew was sustainable because I had rebuilt it during the pandemic. I had money in the bank, right? So like oftentimes if you're a new person, CEO taking over an organization, you're terrified, like fundraising is hard. So I knew I could give her something that like had legs.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
But it was such an interesting lesson because the day we were transitioning, my assistant said to me, okay, I'm going to get you a conference room and you're going to get so many emails, so many people are going to call you that we just, we got to block out three hours. So Tariq and I send the email, she's in one room, I'm in one room, press send, crickets. Oh, no. Crickets.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Tarika calls me a couple hours later. She's like, oh, my God. It's been so amazing, the amount of emails and the phone calls. She's like, how's it been for you? And I didn't want to tell her, right, that no one had called me. But it was such an important lesson on like, this is why people don't give up power, because when you don't have power— You're not important anymore, right?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
So it's so easy to hold on to it because your identity is so caught up in it. But that to me was part of the work, right? From an ego perspective, being able to let it go, give somebody else that light, knowing that like it was going to actually diminish my power, right? My resources, my access. But that was the point. I mean, that is...
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
That's, that's really, yeah, I was going to say, I feel like you're like reading my diaries. Like that's really, it's really insightful because I don't think anyone's seen it that way, like said it that way for me. But, but that's right because, you know, here I was for so many years, like trying to get pregnant, having miscarriages because I had autoimmune issues. And I got into this really like
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
kind of scary habit where I would be at a doctor's office and they'd be like, you have no heartbeat. And I should have just gone home and gone to sleep and curled up with my husband. But I would just take a breath and I would just show up in a living room, in a stage and just perform. And oftentimes I was like performing in front of these children that I desperately wanted.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And I just got really good at that. But it was eating me up inside. And it wasn't until my second where I was again on this path of serial miscarriages. And I remember just one day it was like I was in California. I had to get on a plane and go to Utah to speak to like – I don't know, like a thousand girls and like the governor.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And like that morning, I get a call from the doctor and they're like, okay, your HCG levels are not going up. You're going to miscarry. And I just got on a plane and I was sitting there in front of these girls and my heart was just breaking. And I remember saying, this is it. I'm not doing it again. And I went to my team and I said, guys, and I'd never told them I was going through this.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
I mean, they kind of knew because they would see these doctor's appointments on my schedule, but I never... Like just said, I need, and I said, I can't do this anymore. I need you to take over. I need you to run this organization. I just need, I need a month. I need a couple months just to just breathe. Mm-hmm. That takes so much courage to say it. It did. It did.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
But it's right because I had to detach because I felt like I was letting the girls down. I mean, how ironic is that, right? In my quest to become a mother, you have this beautiful line that I quote all the time. The most important title I have is mom. And I so desperately wanted that title. Oh. Yeah. You know? I do. And I just, it was the irony of it all, you know, was a lot.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And if that happens, we're going to lose a generation of social entrepreneurs that we desperately need to continue these fights. And so we got to show them a different way. We got to do it a different way.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. I don't know how to learn this lesson. I'm going to be honest. Like a couple weeks ago, you know, I had a breast exam and they thought they saw something and then I had to get a biopsy. And I had never gotten a biopsy before, so I didn't know what to expect. But they're like, you know what? It's just a pinch. You'll be fine. And I had a panel that night.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And I know now from DNCs and C-sections and, like, IUDs that it's not a pitch. So, like, I keep my schedule, right? I keep it all. I tell my husband, like, let me come with you. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm good. I got it. I'm fine. No. And it hurt, like— Hell, right? And I go and I do the panel and I'm sitting there and I'm like, what is wrong with you? Like, you know better than this.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
What is wrong with you? And I think it's so hard to unlearn that. what this is really about. Because I think, one, it's personal, but two, like, the sense of, like, I'm strong, I'm resilient, I can take it, I got it, right? Because all these things have served me. It's why I've been able to do the things that I do. And then I think we live... in the society that encourages women to do that.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And the sense that like we don't break and we're not allowed to break.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Well, it's interesting. I'm seeing, you know, a lot of the women, I just went to Cecile Richards' funeral. So you're seeing a lot of these women who've given themselves to the movement. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that the body holds the score. Exactly. Exactly.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And especially for women of color, right, who are always like, oh, but you should go fight and you should go fight and you should go save us, that we can't continue to operate that way. And so I think we have to just – because one of the things I'm seeing – I don't have as many young girls or young women reaching out to me on LinkedIn being like, Mr. Johnny, I also want to start a nonprofit.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
How do I do that? I think that they're looking at us and seeing how exhausted we are, how tired we are, how much you have to sacrifice and saying, yeah, no, thank you. Oh, wow. And if that happens, we're going to lose a generation of social entrepreneurs that we desperately need to continue these fights. Yeah. And so we got to show them a different way. We got to do it a different way.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And it's not one or the other. You know, one of the things I'm seeing in the motherhood movement is people think you have to pick being a girl boss or a tribe wife. that it's black or white, right? That either you're in the workforce and you can't focus on your kids and you don't get to see them or you're just at home.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And I think the point is, is that we're just presenting these like polar opposite choices when really what we all want is something in the middle. I want to be able to pick my kids up, you know, at school every so often, give them a little hug and a kiss, have some flexibility, not be on the plane all the time. But I want to be able to crush it in the things that I care about.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Love it.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
I feel like the way that we've built workplaces, we've set women up to fail, period. You know, and the thing I always think about, Megan, is like, look, we have the most educated workforce of women. Like, 75% of the high school valedictorians are girls, right? Most of those getting their PhDs are girls.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And we have to ask ourselves, why do we have the most educated population of women that have the lowest amount of participation in the labor force? And the reason is, is because when we become moms...
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
It's been a long time. I saw you. Different circumstances. Long time.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Because of the cost of childcare, because of the lack of availability of childcare, because we just don't make it possible for you to do both, oftentimes women are having to downshift or make choices. And the way we've tried to solve this problem is say, well, the problem is women, right? Like you got to get more confidence. You got to power pose, you know, your way before a meeting.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
You got to get a mentor, right? It's all about you're wrong. You're broken. When really it's just structural, right? And what was so amazing about this and the pandemic is I think it gave us a window of what's possible. So, like, if you do have flexibility, if you can take care of your kid when they're sick and still get it on a meeting, right?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
If you still can not be set up to fail because the school day is 830 and the work day is 9 to 5, right? If we can actually give people grace and flexibility and give women ownership over their time, right? you will actually see a shift.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. We breastfed in closets. We didn't put our kids' picture on there. We're like, oh, my God, I'm sorry. Completely. Like, I always say, like, you know, Girls Who Code, mostly women work for me. They get pregnant all the time. And we kill it, right? I have built like two of the most fastest growing nonprofits and we live our values.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And so the sense of that, well, you know, you're not going to be productive or you're like, you know, watching Netflix while you're at work. It's just not true. And so we just have to. But there's so much resistance. to change. And I do think that part of that is about having women ask for what they need and are male allies.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
You know, one of the things that you've seen really shift in this remote work conversation is a lot of men are saying, okay, great, you want me to come back to work? Dads are saying, you need to support me in my childcare. You need to change your paid leave policies, right? You need to allow me to be a parent and just thrive. Right. But I think that is just absolutely right.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
It's like, how do we ask and demand what we need? I mean, you see it even in promotions. Men will not, if they leave the workforce, they will go back and they will not compromise on their salary. Whereas women are like, all right, you want to pay me 20% less? Okay, fine. Thank you. Right.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Because you're an amazing human. It's true. And we were bringing Girls Who Code to England, and we were looking to expand, and you... generously met with me.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Well, listen, I love exposing cons. And I think one of the things with all of these things that are in common is one, what do you mean girls can't code? Yes, they can. And they can build incredible things. And what do you mean we can't redesign workplaces for women? Yes, we can. We need to pass child care and paid leave.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And, you know, the work I'm doing on my podcast right now, My So-Called Midlife, was like, I was in that inflection point between Girls Who Code and Moms First. There was no third baby, right? I was seeing wrinkles on my face that I hadn't seen before. My body was changing because of perimenopause. And I was just feeling like my best years are behind me.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And I started working with my monk, Razanath. And that's when I started reading the Bhagavad Gita because I realized like all the things that were holding me back and the things that I were holding on to. And it just opened up such this incredible moment of one, rethinking midlife for women. Because I think the view about midlife is so different for women and men.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And we need to change it because we are living longer than we ever expected. Ever expected. And I don't know if you knew this, but the largest gender pay gap is for women above 50. I have so many friends now who are approaching 50 and who are like, I can't get that promotion. I can't become a partner at that venture fund. I can't start that business.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
The way we perceive women, their potential and their opportunity, and I call it the midlife penalty for women, really changes. And so... To me, I think I will continue to do this work, right? I will continue to do this work about women. I have made the realization, though, Megan, we may not win in our lifetimes. Meaning what?
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Meaning that I might die with women having less rights than they had when I was born. That we may not see a female president in my lifetime. That your daughters, my nieces, may still be fighting the same fights that we're fighting.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And for me, that was a really hard reality to face in midlife because we went through all the things we sacrificed to our health, our family, and we have to say, God, is it worth it? Like, what is the point? What is the point if we keep dismantling progress? And I think I've realized that probably me, you, were put on this earth just like those suffragettes to just keep hope alive. Keep fighting.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Keep pushing. Because, yeah, that's the point. You lose, you lose, you lose, and then you win. Yes. Right? You lose, you lose, you lose, and then you win.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
That is unflappable. I think that's right. And I think you realize, like, I don't care what other people think about me. Like, I'm not doing this. I just, to me, I want to die knowing that I lived my fullest potential. And then I gave back to like, I keep going back to my parents' story, like about the people that sheltered them, that took them in, that fed them.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Like, I will continue to fight for our children to make sure that this world is good, that they learn and see goodness. And I think that we have a role to play in that. But I think the lesson is, is that you got to do it with joy. Yes. And it can't come at an expense, right, to your health or to your happiness or to your children. Right.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Well, thank you so much for all your... Seriously, Megan, there's so much gratitude and love towards you. I just hope... I hope you know that. Thank you.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
So, you know, for me, my parents came here as refugees. My mother was actually several months pregnant with my sister when they came. They had no money. And the Catholic Church took them in, fed them, sheltered them, clothed them. So I've always had this, like, deep love.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
like love for this country and for that spirit, right, of empathy that we shelter and that we love and then we care for those who have been displaced. So that was always in my blood, that I wanted to give back to the country. I wanted to do public service and I wanted to, you know, fight for those who didn't have a voice.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
You know, no one's ever asked me that before because you're right. I could have turned to anger and hate, given what I was going through. And I went the opposite way. You know, my parents came here in the 70s, grew up in like a working class town, you know, outside of Chicago, Illinois. There were no brown people.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And, you know, my mom was still wearing her sari and her bindi on her head, going to the Kmart, right? Still eating Indian food. And, you know, back then it was all about assimilation. You know, my father went to Toastmasters to get rid of his... accent. He literally changed his name from Mukun to Mike. He still signs my birthday cards like love Mike.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
But that is like, if you wanted to fit in, you had to just change. And that's kind of how we felt too. I remember being so mad, Megan, that my mom named me Reshma. I'm like, why didn't you just name me Rita or Rachel? Because everyone would be like, how do I say it? Right.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And, you know, we didn't have a lot of money, so we were wearing the Kmart shoes and the wrong jeans and, like, the wrong shirt. And I remember it was all, like, you know, Forenza sweatshirts and, like, feathers and, like, you know, the 90s.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Yes. Totally. And we had none of the—we had, like, the knockoff version. Yeah. You know what I mean? Of all of that. But so I really tried to be white. Like, I tried to be those other girls and deny my culture and all of it. And, you know, every day I would get made fun of and bullied. And one day, I don't know, there was nothing special about that day, Megan.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
I just, when challenged to go to the back of the school, you know, for a fight, I was like, okay, instead of just getting on the bus. And that day changed my life, right? I got beat up pretty bad. But I also realized I'm not white and I'm never going to be. And I have a responsibility to actually teach people about difference.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Like literally, I went to freshman year of high school and started a club called PRISM, like the Prejudice Reduction Interested Students Movement. Horrible name. I got better at that.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Yeah, I guess it does. So, yeah, I think I turned to hope.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Always wanting to affect change. Yeah. I realized early on what my gift was. So I started going to Model UN and debate, and I realized, ooh, I can give a speech. I can communicate, and I actually feel at home. on stage. And I'm thinking the way to make a difference is to run for office. I'm in love with Dr. King, Mahatma Gandhi, John F. Kennedy.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Like back then, I thought politics, politics, and you can, you know how to communicate, like that's where you go. And so I, you know, volunteer on my first campaign, the 92 Clinton campaign, fell in love with politics and Washington and Hillary Clinton and the whole thing. And I'm looking at all these people like a Hillary, like
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
You know, and they all got a degree from Harvard and they're all lawyers. And so maybe that's my path, right? I'm going to Yale Law School. That's where I'm going. I apply three times. Don't get in. You know what I mean? Finally get in. But not just finally get in.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
What did you say? Well, so I had this mentor, Leon Higginbotham Jr. He was like the first federal Black jurist on the Third Circuit Court. And he becomes my mentor. Every Sunday, I am at him and Evelyn's house listening to like the heroes of the civil rights movement. And it is just, I love Leon. And Leon's like, oh, girl, you're getting in.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Like when you go to your law school, when you walk in, there's my photo. Like, I got you. And he dies. And he doesn't write my recommendation letter. Oh, I didn't. Okay. Before he dies. Okay. So I'm devastated. And I don't have a recommendation letter. And it's like, it's his funeral. Everybody is there. And at the funeral, I meet the assistants of the dean of Yale Law School. Wow.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And kind of like, she feels sorry for me. And she was like, I'll get an appointment for you. And she kind of squeezes me and Dean Kraman's schedule. And I go to New Haven and make my pitch. And Dean Kraman's like, listen, I'll make you a deal. Like, you've gotten into all these other schools. Like, I got into Penn and Northwest. I mean, like, right? Like, really good schools.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And he's like, I'll make you a deal. Like, just go at any of those schools. And if you get into the top 10%, I'll let you come to Yale.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
So I go to Georgetown. I don't make one friend. I study every single day. I am just super focused, right? Like getting straight A's so I can go to Yale. But it was such a lesson, Megan, in like, I was just so narrowly focused that I had to have that Yale law degree so I could go do the things that I wanted to do, not understanding that I was just letting life and its experiences just pass me by.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
What happens then is that Bush v. Gore happens, and I'm thinking I'm going into public interest, right? I'm going to go work at the NLAACP, right? Like, civil rights, that's what I want to do. Bush wins. No one's going to D.C., you know? And I'm like, oh, and I'm $300,000 in student loan debt. I guess I'm going to go work for the man in New York at a law firm, which I hate.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And that's when I run for office. take this crazy chance, right, in running in a primary. I was 33 years old. My name was Reshma Sajjani. There had never been a South Asian woman to ever run before. I run for United States Congress. I lose, like, spectacularly. I mean, it's, like, not even close. But I had, like, convinced John Legend to do, like, two concerts for me, like, Jack Dorsey.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Like, I had, like, hustled. the whole world, right, into thinking that, like, I'm winning this upstart race. And it is not even close. Like, I'm crushed. And the biggest kind of aha for me was I'm sitting there the next day. I'm in my, like, 400 square foot Lower East Side apartment, and I've pissed off everybody in the Democratic establishment because I didn't wake my turn.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
I ran against another Democrat. I'm broke because I spent a year running for office instead of working. And no one's calling me. Oh, no. No one's calling me. But the biggest kind of, I think, moment that changes my life is I realized, like, oh, my God, like, this was the thing that I thought that I was supposed to do. Run for office. Be a politician. Be a public servant.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
The very thing that I had been driving towards, Yale, all of that was about this destination. It doesn't happen for me. But when I wake up the next morning, I'm like, oh, like— I'm not broken. Yeah, this sucks. But like, I'm not broken. Huh. I think we think as women that when we try something, especially something we want so bad.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
And it doesn't work out that it will break us and we won't be able to like wake up the next day. We won't be able to continue on. Forget about like the humiliation and the judgment and all that. I think there's a sense that like failure will cripple you.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Exactly. And so now the thing doesn't happen and I'm like, huh, there's a lot of things that I should maybe fail at and try and learn. And that's the path.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
I'm sitting there the next day. I've pissed off everybody. I'm broke. And no one's calling me.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I remember, I grew up as a brown family in a very kind of white working class neighborhood where there weren't a lot of Indians. One time someone had put on the side of our house, go back to your own country. And my father that morning when I woke up, I saw him kind of just almost like humming a Bollywood tune, just cleaning the side of the house.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und ich erinnere mich an ihn, als ob ich niemals du sein würde. Und ich sage das mit Respekt, aber für eine bestimmte Generation und bestimmte Menschen ist es nicht natürlich für sie, zu kämpfen, zu stehen und zu sprechen. Das war immer in mir und das war immer mein Geschenk. Und ich denke also, dass ich immer dieses Geschenk benutzt habe, das ich ihm gegeben habe.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
you know to fight in particular for women and for girls so whether it was girls or code whether it's mom's first whether it's brave not perfect whether now it's women in midlife it's kind of like really been a constant for me like i've been doing the same thing no i know i love that because i see that through line in there and so that's why i was wondering i'm wondering if if that was something that you knew was kind of a through line or you've discovered that now and you're saying you discovered it i think i've discovered it and i think
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und ich liebe es, dass du weißt, dass es dein Geist ist.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Es ist wirklich dein Geist. Wie du sprichst, deine Kadenz, dein Verständnis von Leuten, wie du hörst. Ich meine, es ist. Ich kenne dich seit einem kurzen Zeitpunkt, aber ich weiß das.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Nein, ich verabschiede mich. Und ich denke, du hast das Geist auch. Und ich denke, die Fähigkeit, etwas zu nehmen. Eines, ich denke, das ist universal. Wenn ich meine Brustbiopsie-Story teile oder meine eigenen Unabhängigkeiten teile, meine Verletzung für das Büro, andere Leute sind wie, oh mein Gott, ich fühle mich auch so. Und man macht die Leute gesehen und nicht allein.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Das ist sehr, sehr, sehr wichtig, denke ich, für unsere Gesellschaft. Und besonders in diesem Moment, wo die Leute eine enorme Menge Leidenschaft fühlen. Ich denke, das zweite Ding ist die Fähigkeit, die Wahrheit zur Macht zu sprechen. Für mich, was ist der Punkt, wenn man Macht hat? Was ist der Punkt, wenn man eine Plattform hat, wenn man sie nicht benutzen wird?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Nicht nur für das Gute, sondern um die Dinge zu sagen, die andere Menschen nicht können. I get into trouble all the time because I stand up to bullies, whether it's a company, whether it's a politician, whether it's somebody online. And I recognize not everybody has the ability to do that.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
So sometimes when I say something that's uncomfortable, like when you first did that menopause episode and nobody was talking about it and you knew people don't want to hear about that right now. That was brave. Not everybody can do that. And so if you know that you have the ability to do that, whether it's in your workplace, whether it's in your community, whether it is on TV, you need to do it.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
It's a responsibility to do it, almost. And I also think this, I also think you can't help yourself but do it. I don't think I ever thought through, oh gosh, what's going to happen if? I mean, I think I did a few times when I came onto social media thinking like, oh boy, the bosses are going to see this and I wonder if I'm out of a career.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
It's so good to see you too. I'm thrilled to have you here. You always make me think. You come into a room and we have a conversation that is so... I think for days after we talk, I really do.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And then I realized, wait, there's so many more women that need to hear it than that don't like to hear it. Those people that don't like to hear it, they just don't matter. Or they're going to listen.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
It's scary to be the only one. It's scary to be the only one. It's scary to be attacked. It's scary. It's still like, I think we're still invariably good girls and we want to be liked.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I do. There was a book a long time ago. Good girls don't get ahead, but gutsy girls do. That's what it was by Kate White. I read that when I was really young and I'm like... Ich bin schmerzhaft, aber ich bin eher eine gute Frau. Und dann habe ich gemerkt, dass ich das nicht glaube. Aber es hat einen langen Zeitraum gedauert, um zu verstehen, was das ist.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Weil ich habe es gelesen, als ich sehr jung war. Ich war nur in meiner Karriere in der Fernsehsendung, nur da zu kommen und alle zu mögen, mich zu mögen, um sicherzustellen, dass ich die Teamleiterin war. Und ich will das immer noch in der Rückseite meiner Kopf. Aber ich weiß auch, was für mich richtig ist. Und ich denke, du hast recht, als wir ein bisschen älter werden und zurücksehen.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And look ahead, by the way, like I'm in that middle place, you know, where I look back and I'm real grateful, but I also look ahead at what else is there. And so, and I think that that what's ahead is much more important.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And it's, look, I think it's tricky. I think it's, look, it is absolutely. Es ist absolut einfacher, wenn du 70 bist, zu sagen, nein, fuck's given.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Oh, totally. Sometimes I can't wait. Sometimes I can't wait to be able to say that and not care. I was actually, I was talking to Johanna this morning and I'm like, do you think that Martha Stewart was always like this? But I went back and I looked at the document. I kind of think she was always like that. So I was and I'm going to have to grow into my Martha.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Well, I'm so excited that we met and Joanna introduced us and we've become friends. I'm so excited about everything you're doing.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Sie hat einen Preis dafür gekostet. Ich habe gelernt, dass ich nicht immer in diesem Kampf engagieren muss. Es könnte nicht der richtige Zeitpunkt sein. Und manchmal denke ich, oh, ja, ich bin es. Jetzt ist es Zeit. Und ich denke, es ist das Wissen, dass du die Erfahrung von deinem Vergangenheit und deiner Zukunft hast und sagst, wann ist der richtige Zeitpunkt und der richtige Moment?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und ich denke, manchmal, besonders, wenn du für andere Menschen kämpfst. Right?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Yeah. Well, you want to also do it the right way, too. So it's it's meaningful and not just loud. Right. You want it to mean something. Yeah. It's not just so you can have a voice.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
You know, the voice in the fight. We talk about wisdom when we talk about looking forward and back. And I like the fact that you've become more introspective or looking in more. I feel like myself doing that a few years ago. I I was waking up every day going and this is before I even was talking about menopause. I was waking up going now what? Jetzt was? Ich bin hier.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Me too. I follow what you have going on. I've listened to a lot of things you've done before we met. And so I want to talk about some of that. But... We want to talk about imposter syndrome today or the fact that you don't believe in it. Du glaubst nicht an Impostor-Syndrom, oder?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und ich denke, es war ähnlich zu dem, was ich gehört habe, was du sagst, was ist das? Ja. Und das ist, warum ich denke, dass diese Zeit so faszinierend ist. Und vielleicht, weil du so wie ich bist, über das Mittelfeld. Ich fühle mich einfach sehr... Ich will alles wissen, was es ist. Es gibt nicht viel darüber. Es gibt nicht viel auf der Reiseplatte. Es kann wirklich frustrierend sein.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich weiß, dass du ein lustiges Geburtstag kommst. Nicht ein großes Geburtstag, ein lustiges Geburtstag. Wie fühlst du dich darüber?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Weißt du, ich fühle mich... Ich werde ehrlich sein. Ein Teil, warum ich meinen Podcast, My Soul Club Midlife, angefangen habe, war, weil ich mir sagte, ich bin verdammt müde. Ich fühle mich, als ob die besten Teile meiner Karriere vorbei sind. Ich weiß nicht, was vor mir ist. Ich mag nicht, wie ich sehe, in der gleichen Weise.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Mein Haar wird dünner, ich bekomme mehr Schmerzen, es ist schwieriger, den Gewicht zu halten. Ich fühle mich nicht so stark. Wenn ich fünf Meilen fahre, wenn ich nicht vom Rollstuhl fahre, bin ich fertig. Ich fühlte, dass meine Beziehungen mit Freunden, dass du mehr Freunde schädelst, je älter du wirst. Du kannst keine neuen Freunde in derselben Weise machen.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und ich war so, dass jeder Tag der Groundhog Day war. I was feeling really bored. And I realized a lot of people around me felt exactly the same way. And that's why they were blowing up their lives, right? Whether it was like getting a divorce, moving to an ashram.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And so that's why I started the podcast to really get, one, to get advice on some of the tactical things, whether it's divorce, whether it's, should I take psychedelics? Whether it's like, how do I make new friends? To people in their 50s, like Julia Louis-Dreyfus, right? Oder Yvette Brown oder Chelsea Handler, die es tatsächlich zerstören.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und eines der Dinge, das so interessant war, es ist fast so, dass jede Person, die ich interviewt habe, nicht so fühlt, wie ich es fühlte.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Sie sind so, oh, das ist der beste Zeitpunkt meines Lebens. Wie Midlife ist ein Mindset. Und ich denke, nach all diesen Interviews und all diesen Gesprächen, That's also shifted for me. Like last week, you know, we were on break and I was at the beach in Mexico.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And normally when I go to the beach, you know, I'm staring at all these like 20 year old girls with their badass bikinis and their fit bodies. And I'm like. Just one night. Put me in a time machine. Just one night to know what it felt like to be 20 and free. It was the first time that I didn't feel that way. I was like... Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich glaube nicht. Warum? Es hält Frauen von ihrem vollen Potenzial. Wenn ich in einem Raum bin, in jedem Raum, und ich frage, wie viele von euch haben nicht etwas gemacht, weil es um Impostor-Syndrom geht? Letztlich ist jede Hand aufgewachsen.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
So much of like, I told you, I watched Baby Girl last night. And it's like, you know, for so long, all the representations you saw of women, quite frankly, over 40, where they were haggard and old and tired and bitter and angry and they weren't hot and they weren't sexy and they weren't attractive.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And so you're seeing a shift in culture from like Demi Moore to Nicole Kidman and really shifting again, what it like... It's hot to be 50. It's hot to be a mom. You know what I mean? It is. And it's funny because it's also very, it's a very American thing. Like if you go to Brazil, if you go to India, like it's not this, they actually revere women. They're like the older they get.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
So it's a very distinctly American cultural thing. Und als ich angefangen habe, das zu recherchieren, war es auch so, dass die erste Plastik-Suchung in den 1900er-Jahren gemacht wurde. Es war so, dass man einfach nichts verkaufen konnte.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Man konnte Botox oder Füllungen oder Cremes oder, weißt du, Gewichtsschmerzen verkaufen, wenn man die Frauen nicht überzeugt hat, dass das Mirror in den Rückgang arbeiten sollte. So like to me, turning ourselves onto that, like it's so funny, we look at Pamela Anderson without her makeup and we're like, she is badass. But like, that's bravery.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I know. I know. Men don't walk around brave.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
They don't walk around brave because they don't have makeup on. So it's just like, and I do think if we can unlock this, and I think the work you're doing with menopause, because that's a part of it, like it's hard to, if you feel like shit, Du kannst diesen anderen Aspekt nicht ändern.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Also die Anzahl an Träumen, die übernommen werden, die Anzahl an Unternehmen, die nie angefangen werden, die Anzahl an Podcasts, die nie angefangen werden, die Anzahl an Promotionen, die nie gefragt werden, weil es um Impostor-Syndrom geht, Es ist einfach wild.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Du musst irgendwo Kontrolle haben. Ja. Und ich denke, das muss mit diesem physischen Gefühl anfangen. Weißt du, besser, besser über deinen Körper und wie es schmerzt und ich kann nicht in den Gym gehen. Mit all diesen Dingen, die du gelistet hast, war ich so, oh Gott, ich erinnere mich an all diese Dinge.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und ich hatte einen Divorz in meinen 40ern durchgeführt und dann Menopause und dann wusste ich nicht, was da los war und war auf der Kamera. Also das hat sich selbst seine eigene ganze Sache über, weißt du, Angst und Erwachsenheit vor einer Kamera, was eine große Teil meiner früheren Leben war. Und ich denke, ich fühle mich genauso, wie du es tust.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich denke nicht, dass ich mich völlig fühle, dass ich keine mehr habe, keine mehr Fs zu geben. Ich denke nicht unbedingt, dass ich so weit gehe. Aber ich fühle mich, ich weiß nicht, wie ich es erklären kann. Es ist wie ein Gefühl von Relaxt für einen Sekunden.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich habe nichts zu beweisen. Und so muss ich mich immer wieder daran erinnern. Und dann muss ich mich erinnern, wenn ich das nicht erfülle, was das Ding ist auf dieser Zeitlinie, was ist das Schlimmste, was kann passieren? Ich muss das zu mir selbst tun, um mich zu bewegen. Ja. You know, belly ring on the beach, walking around like not a care in the world.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
But then I really also like where I am today, you know, and I do like the real relationships I have. Like I understand you immediately. When we first spoke, we first met, like I got you immediately and I felt really good when I left there because I was like, wow, somebody else that gets me. And I didn't really understand the importance of community or any of that stuff for a long time.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Eine der Dinge, die mich erinnert hat, war, dass ich, als ich 20 Jahre alt war, mit dem Belly-Wing auf der Straße, ich hatte den Belly-Wing, aber auf der Straße, es war nicht nur die Art, wie ich mich sah, es war mein Entschluss, über das, was möglich ist. Oh, ja, natürlich.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und ich denke, was für Frauen in der Zwischenzeit schwierig ist, ist, dass man denkt, wenn man es nicht gemacht hat, ist es fertig. Und also habe ich mehr Beispiele von Frauen, die tatsächlich die Höhe ihrer Karriere begonnen haben, als sie in ihren 40ern oder ihren 50ern waren. Ich denke, dass sie diese Entspannung haben, dass sie denken, dass ihre besten Jahre vor ihnen sind.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und so habe ich gemerkt, dass es da etwas war, als ich tatsächlich auf Stephen Bartlett's Podcast war und die Geschichte erzählt habe, die ich jahrelang erzählt habe, wie ich gefragt wurde, zu sprechen bei Bill Gates' Summit. Und ich bin eingeladen, zu sprechen bei Bill Gates' Summit. Und die Frau, die mich anruft, meint, hör mal.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
ist wirklich, wirklich, wirklich wichtig. Und ich denke, was wir brauchen, und wir haben es einfach nicht, wie kulturell, wir geben nicht viele dieser Beispiele vor.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
No, we don't. I mean, I don't think we had them for a long time. Or if we had them, we just didn't talk about them because they were the only ones.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Or they weren't even talking about them. You didn't have the Demi Moore speech of basically being like, everyone told me I was a popcorn actress and I knew that there was something left. And so many of us have that feeling. I feel like I actually haven't done my best work yet. I really feel that way. And people are probably like, what do you mean?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Because you've done such kick-ass work, so I can't even imagine what's next. And my psychic backs me up. He's like, you know what I mean? Like, you're a late bloomer. I love that. So when I wake up in the morning, I kind of like, I bound out of bed.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
All right, what's coming? What's in my inbox? What things are coming my way? What exciting projects are happening? And I think that I want to give that to women.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich denke, jüngere Frauen brauchen das auch, weil ich nicht möchte, dass sie unsere Gespräche über Perimenopause und Menopause hören und sagen, oh mein Gott, es ist so furchtbar. Also versuche ich, dass das ein bisschen stärker fühlt als schmerzhaft und schmerzhaft. Und das ist es. Und das ist, was du dazugeben musst. Also arbeite wirklich hart, bevor du da bist. Weil es alles schmerzt.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Es ist alles schmerzhaft. Du weißt, du wirst unbeleuchtet und nicht relevant sein. Hey everybody, it's Tamsen Fadal. I am thrilled to announce my How to Menopause book tour. For the first time ever, I am on the road and I cannot wait to meet you in person. Join me in a city near you to talk perimenopause, menopause and how to take charge of your health at any age. Tickets are on sale now.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Head to TamsenFadal.com slash book tour and get yours today. Okay, so I want to do a couple of things, because I want to make sure we've had a lot of questions about this, about reinvention, about how you start over, how you get unstuck, imposter syndrome, all that stuff.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And I also want to break down kind of these first steps to breaking free from the mindset, because some people don't think it's going to take them five years to figure that out. But I want to start with this, because we got this from a listener, Melissa out of Dallas, 48. I feel like this is me. I could have written, you know.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
So I always say, so I felt when I started Girls Who Code, I had come from a failed congressional candidate. I had like, I was broke. I put all my money into this campaign and not working for a year. I was humiliated. Like I was like the laughing stock of like.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Oh, nein, nein, ich war es definitiv. Warum? Weil warum? Ich denke, und hör mal, ich denke, an dieser Zeit, und es ist immer noch so, wie in der Politik, sie sagen, sie wollen neue Blut, aber sie wollen keine neue Blut. Und so versuchen sie wirklich, dich zu schmücken. Also am Tag nach meiner Verletzung, war jemand, der mich angerufen hat, dass ich einen tollen Job gemacht habe.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
We normally don't have a lot of women give keynotes here because it's really intimidating. And Warren and Bill are in the front row. But we think that you would be great for this. And I'm like, of course, bring it on. And I remember I'm like sitting there backstage and I'm like.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Du hast 1,3 Millionen Dollar erhöht und du hattest Jack Dorsey und John Legend und du hast diesen großen Bewegung gegründet. Was ist nächstes? Nein, es gab keinen Telefonruf. Es gab keinen Anruf. Und das ist hart. Das ist hart.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Aber mein Punkt ist, dass ich in dieser Erfahrung meine Vision für Mädchen, die Code haben, gesehen habe, weil ich in diese Klassenräume gehe und es war wie alle Jungs, die Code lernen, und keine Mädchen. Und von dieser Perspektive konnte ich, es war nicht der Moment, wo du denkst, dass jemand sagt, oh, ich werde einen Bewegungsprozess bauen.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
But I was like, I'm going to take 20 girls and I'm going to put them in a classroom and I'm going to teach them how to code. I'm not going to build a movement. I'm not going to build a non-profit. I'm going to do a little pilot. And I'm going to tell everybody about it.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Also meine Vorschläge, wenn du dich als Impostor fühlst oder Angst hast, zu verlieren, ist, einen Schritt zu identifizieren, der machbar ist. Und dann alle darüber zu erzählen. Weil ich denke, das ist das Wichtigste für uns als Frauen. Es ist wichtig für uns, andere Leute zu halten, andere Leute zu halten, die uns verantwortlich halten.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
So when you start talking, and then you will also find people who will want to help you.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I love that advice, because I think that sometimes what we do is think we can't tell people anything until we're successful. Until it's perfect. We hide our dreams.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Because we assume that there isn't a community there that wants to hold us and help us actually achieve those dreams, make those introductions. Write a $200 check for your investment. Do that thing. I think the second thing I would say to her too is that, I told you, imposter syndrome is a lie. It is a trick to make you feel that you are not good enough.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
So imagine any other thing in your life where you feel like you have been told something that was there to actually impede your progress and your growth.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
This is that thing. So what do you do with it, though, when it comes into your mind, like, oh, I'm not good enough, it's not quick enough, it's not... I do think starting in that small way and not trying to be up here and telling people is brilliant.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I think it's a smart way to do that. It's normal to feel scared. To leave something that you've done for so long and to do something new is scary. I feel scared every single time I launch a new thing. I'm sure you do too.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
damn like i only have eight minutes i wish i had 12. and i'm like how did i become this woman because you know tamsen i wasn't always that way right i grew up in schaumburg illinois went to public high school went to university of illinois i wasn't around people with fancy degrees and and i was the girl that when i finally applied to your law school after three times and got in and i would sit in my constitutional law class
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I called you telling you I was. I said, I have this idea, but I don't know what to do. I don't know what it is. Is it something? Of course.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
But so that feeling of feeling scared is normal. Okay. But then what I think you want to divorce that from is this feeling that you are not good enough to go do that thing, that you are an imposter.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And it's okay if you're the only one, too. That doesn't make you an imposter.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I think that's a big deal. So recognizing it, normalizing it, and realizing that we've been tricked into believing that we're not supposed to be there. We're not that girl.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I like when you talk about bravery over perfection, because that's, I think, what you're talking about at the very beginning, starting at small, not trying to make a movement, not trying to perfect it before you go out there with it. I think bravery is something I've realized now in midlife that I have, that I didn't know I probably had when I was younger.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I thought that I was just working, you know, my head was down, like I was head down, working really hard. Now I feel I can see some of those brave moments. Und ich gebe mir einen Schlauch in die Rückseite, anstatt es alles sofort herauszufinden.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Braverie ist lustig. Ich sage immer, ich möchte nicht alles jetzt. Aber auch ich bekomme ein Hoch aus dem Verletzen. Ich weiß, das klingt seltsam. Aber ich genieße eigentlich Rejection. Und hier ist die Sache, du lernst nicht, wenn du nicht fällst.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und wenn du einen Athleten anschaust, wenn du jemanden anschaust, der in einem kompetitiven Sport ist, ist es das, Schuss, ich verliere, Schuss, ich verliere, Schuss, ich verliere, Schuss, ich verliere, ist, wie du wirklich groß wirst. And if I'm going to have one lifetime to make the world a better place, I want to be fucking great at it.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
But that means I have got to make mistakes and I have got to fail and I have to put myself out there and I have to put myself in uncomfortable positions. So I think we have to build the muscle of doing that. It is uncomfortable to ask somebody for help. Uncomfortable to say, hey, Tamsa, will you introduce me to so-and-so? Es ist.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und ich habe gesagt, können wir nur einen Moment reden? Ich habe diese Idee. Und es war eine der wenigen Zeiten, wo ich dachte, oh, das war so gut erhältlich. Aber es ist, warum ist das?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Weil du nicht auf jemanden imponieren willst. Wir werden von der Zeit, als wir klein waren, literally von der Zeit, als wir acht Jahre alt waren, als gute Mädchen, als gute Mädchen, als gute Mädchen, Ich denke, die zweite Sache, ich denke wirklich, dass wir fühlen, als ob ich dir meinen größten Traum oder meine größte Aspiration sage, dass du es von mir nehmen wirst. Ja, okay.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
ist, dass wir keine Gemeinschaft in Amerika haben zwischen Frauen. Wir haben keine Solidarität zwischen uns. Wir denken immer noch, dass es einen Platz gibt für uns. Wenn euer Podcast groß ist, bedeutet das, dass mein Podcast groß ist. Also werde ich euch nichts sagen, was ich gelernt habe, um etwas erfolgreich zu machen. Und das ist, was uns stoppt.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Also für mich ist meine Revolte daran, dass ich so generös wie hell bin. Nehmt alles. Ja. all my contacts, my relationships, my knowledge, my information, because I feel like if you succeed, I will succeed. And I think that that's part of that too. And men don't operate that way.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich würde nie meine Hand aufhören, weil ich fühlte, dass alle um mich herum klüger als ich war, mehr qualifiziert als ich war und dass ich in die Tür geschluckt habe, die ich nicht hatte. Glücklich, dass du da bist. Glücklich, dass du da bist. Und es hat mich geschluckt. Und ich habe immer mein Potenzial, meine Stimme überwacht.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
You know, it's funny, I think they oftentimes also rally around, like, if so-and-so can become president, that means I can too.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And then they're friends with them. And then they share information.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
They tell each other how much they make and what it takes and blah, blah, blah, blah.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
They see abundance. They do see abundance way more than we do. My husband never understands it. I'm like, I can't. I had this idea. And he goes, yeah, but there's a lot. Und ich glaube, wir sind richtig. Es ist fast so, als würde er mich erinnern, dass es nicht so ist, dass ich genug bin, sondern dass es genug ist. Aber du lebst dein Leben so, weil ich fühle, dass du... Ich versuche es wirklich.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
... jede Frau, die in Menopausen ist. Ich meine, du... Ich versuche es wirklich. Es gibt einiges von Generosität in deiner Arbeit. Und das ist, weshalb ich so glücklich bin these days. Ich mag das Gefühl. Don't you like that feeling? Oh my God, I get a high out of hooking a girl up.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I love it. To me also, it's just... Because I know... Es gab Frauen, die das für mich getan haben. Hillary Clinton hat das für mich getan.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Es gab Leute, die... In meiner Karriere, ich bin hier, weil ich auf den Schultern von so vielen Frauen stehe, so viele Journalisten, die über die Dinge geschrieben haben, über die ich gesprochen habe, so viele Frauen, die mir meinen ersten E-Mail geschrieben haben.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Also, für mich, je nachdem, wann ich die Möglichkeit habe, das zu tun, jetzt, schau, es ist schwer, jeden Anruf und jeden Text und jeden E-Mail zu beantworten, aber ich suche für Wege, Ich sehe, dass du es tust. Ich sehe, dass du es tust.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Zum Beispiel. Und ich denke auch, dass jüngere Frauen, als sie in das Ganze kommen, weil ich fühle, dass es so viel Input gibt, viel mehr als ich jemals hatte, von all diesen Dingen, die auf sie kommen, alle verschiedene Wege und nicht wirklich die Möglichkeit haben, nicht nur, was das Wichtigste ist, sondern was sie fühlen wird, das Beste erfüllt und aus dem Bett jeden Tag.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Because there's a lot of pressure out there for young girls.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Yeah, I mean, and look, I think that this generation oftentimes is not moved by the same things that we were moved by. And, you know, it's fascinating. I think this whole influencer culture, everybody thinks that that's the way to kind of like be successful, make money, be seen. Yeah, it's exhausting. If I never had to do social media, I'd be so freaking happy.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I get it. It's a means to an end. It is. And I think what I do like, though, about it, I would never have reached these women and understood what they needed in menopause and perimenopause and the help and the access. So that part I really enjoy. But I feel like I don't know. I didn't have this community.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Well, you know what? It's so funny. When I was in Mexico, I had three women. I was there for 20 minutes. It was the most powerful. I had three different women come up to me when I was in the Starbucks line, when I was buying a toy. And just say thank you.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
oh wow and you're right so what i so when i say like so for me for social media it's like i do it on my terms and i'm not producing content to produce content for the sake of it because you have to feed the beast yeah problem is is like kind of got to feed the beast to grow yeah no you're right you're right it's a delicate balance you and it's funny i have the same thing when i when somebody comes up and does that somebody uh i was in miami and this young girl hung her head out the window and she was like
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Tamsen. Und dann hat sie ihre Füße in die Luft gesetzt und sie hat gesagt, ich bin in Perimenopause. Es war wie ein sehr empfohlener Bewegung. Und dann hat sie einfach weggerufen. Und mein Mann hat gesagt, was hat sie gesagt? Und ich habe gesagt, sie hat gesagt, sie ist in Perimenopause. Und er sagt, hast du etwas gesagt? Warst du mit deinen Händen?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Es war einfach wirklich cool, aber ich dachte, das war wirklich cool. Und das bedeutet, dass wir nicht überrascht sind von diesen Worten. Und wir sehen sie und lernen über sie und verstehen über sie. Und ich hoffe, sie zu formen und sie anders zu sehen. Und ich denke persönlich, das ist hart.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich habe mein Körper, mein Leben, meine Seele zu diesem Werk gegeben. Und ich hatte schon lange das Gefühl, dass es mir sehr wichtig war, heilig zu sein. Ich bin sehr diszipliniert über Ego-Balancing. Nicht zu lassen, es zu beeinflussen. Und nicht zu lassen, es zu beeinflussen. Und Rosnoth, mein Lehrer, war so, nein, nein, nein, nein. Das ist wie das Universum, das dich dankt.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und also nimm das Liebe mit. And it will help fuel you in your moments of exhaustion and feeling like, okay. Because here's the thing, I think with a lot of these issues, it's like two steps forward, one step back. I realize that I may die without there being a female president. I may die not having my reproductive rights back.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I may die still with not squashing imposter syndrome or not freeing women from midlife. But in my life, I actually... Ja. Ja.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
100%. I mean, you interviewed Gloria Steinem. What was she thinking at 21 years old of what she was going to do to where it is today?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I think she just, yeah. I mean, and I think now when we say, oh my God, this didn't happen. She's like, she just has this beatific smile and energy. And she's still saying, right, we were there. It's like, but be joyful about it. You know, and I loved what she said when she said, every day I walk out of my apartment and I say hello to the first stranger that I see.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
As a way of still practicing the art of making connection.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
She is amazing. I've been to so many different events with her. People do not stop coming up to her, first of all. I want to take pictures, obviously. But then having these, I can just tell, intimate, emotional conversations with her. And she is there for every bit of it. Absorbing it. It's incredible. Yeah, it really is. It's really super special.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
What is one thing you wish you could tell your younger self?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Is to be brave, not perfect. Ich denke, dass wir in den jüngsten möglichen Zeiten gelernt werden, um Perfektion zu haben, um eine gute Frau zu sein, um zu kümmern, was andere denken, um uns zu verringern, um uns klein zu machen.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Wie ich sage, ich und meine Mädchen kommen in Kreisen um dich herum.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und für mich, wenn du anfängst, brav zu sein, und ich meine nicht die Bravigkeit, ein Baby aus einem brennenden Gebäude zu retten, aber die Bravität, wenn du auf der Straße gehst und jemand kommt zu dir, dass du nicht sagst, ich bin sorry.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
You know, the bravery that when you're in a meeting and someone says any questions, you immediately raise your hand, even though you don't know exactly what you're going to ask. Like the bravery in the smallest of possible ways, I think, unleashes and unlocks this muscle that you need to, I think, achieve your fullest potential. Thank you so much. Thank you.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich wünschte mir, dass ich das Wissen, das ich hatte, ich habe es immer gesagt, ich wünschte mir, dass ich es aufbauen kann und es all meinen Mädchen geben kann, damit du viel früher in deiner Karriere verstehen könntest, dass du immer genug vorbereitet warst, dass du immer genug qualifiziert warst, dass du alle, dass sie nichts an uns hatten.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Where can people find you so we have it? You can find me on Instagram at ReshmaSajani. You can find me at mysocalledmidlife or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can find me at momsfirst.us. Thanks, Reshma.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Reshma hat so einen unglaublichen Weg, den Skript zu verändern und uns die Dinge zu fragen, die wir gelernt haben, zu glauben, wie das Impostor-Syndrom. Und sie hat es so mächtig gesagt. Es ist eine Lüge, es ist ein Trick. Und das hat mich wirklich mit mir nach dem Thema gehalten. Wir denken automatisch, es ist biologisch, unerwartet oder ein Teil der Frau zu sein.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Aber sie zu hören, dass sie die Geschichte hinter all dem umpackt, wie es nicht etwas ist, das uns definieren muss, war wirklich eindeutig. Es geht nicht nur darum, uns selbst zu verändern, sondern es geht auch darum, die Systeme zu verändern, die uns in der ersten Zeit so fühlen.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und dann sollten wir es in größere Gespräche über die Bedeutung der Schmerzen der Frauen oder mehr oft, wie wir sie nicht wertschätzen, wirklich hart machen. Ob es eine Krankheit ist, Navigationsperimenopause, oder nur versuchen, es herauszufinden. dass jetzt so viele von uns, insbesondere ich, diese Antworten suchen und fühlen, als müssten wir kämpfen, um gehört zu werden.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich liebe es auch, als sie über Wissens- und kulturelle Unterschiede im ganzen Weltraum sprach, wie Frauen in anderen Teilen des Weltraums verehrt werden, während hier oft gesagt wird, dass sie nur verschwinden. Das hat mich wirklich gedacht, was, wenn wir die Bravour wiederentwickeln, nicht so, wie wir sie sehen, sondern wir zeigen uns selbst auf und freuen uns darauf, was möglich ist.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Denn ich sehe viele Möglichkeiten mit Frauen da draußen. If this conversation resonated with you, please let me know. It really helps if you leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. It's one of the best ways to keep these conversations going.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And if you've got any questions for me at all or one of our future guests, send them over to podcast at TamsenFidel.com. And don't forget to follow us at The Tamsen Show on social for more inspiring moments and behind-the-scenes stories. Thanks so much for spending time with me today. I'll see you next time on The Tamsen Show. The Tamsen Show is an original production by Authentic Wave.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Executive Producers Scott Weinberger, Kevin Bennett and Rebecca Grierson. Brand Director Johanna Ofsnick. Our line producer is Sabrina Saray. Editing by Zach Smith and Marquis Harris.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Wir können hier den ganzen Tag sitzen und sagen, wo das herkommt, richtig?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Aber wenn du sagst, ich war nicht immer die Frau, also wie konntest du die Frau sein?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich glaube, ich konnte diese Frau sein, weil ich die Leute kennengelernt habe, die ich als klüger oder qualifizierter als ich war. Und ich wusste, dass sie es nicht sind.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und ich wusste auch, dass ich ein Verletzter der Kottage-Industrie war, die Frauen lehnt, um ihre Selbstvertrauen zu erhöhen, um sich zu stärken, um eine andere Fähigkeit zu bekommen, um ein anderes Buch zu lesen, dass man nie genug ist. And I think this narrative that somehow as women, as people of color, we've snuck in the door, that someone has lowered the bar for us.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And I think being a CEO, being someone who hires people, being in these rooms, being on these boards of Harvard or MoMA, it's like, I am like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. No one just lets us in. We have to crawl, fight, push our way in.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I always get so frustrated when I hear people like, oh, can you believe she's done this and this? I'm like, no, because she worked her ass off to do that. And so I look at that and I say, you're right. The imposter syndrome is really, it's not a thing. That is not a thing. What do we call it though instead? Because we do have that.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I mean, I have had that before where I, you know, I tell a story of getting up on a stage and feeling like in front of Martha Stewart. And I thought, oh my gosh, everyone's so much better. Und nach diesem Gespräch kamen sie zu mir und sagten, dass sie so aufgeregt waren über das Gespräch und es sie weinte. Und ich dachte, warte, was? Also das war ich, als ich Impostor-Syndrom hatte.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ja, also zuerst einmal, ich denke, es gibt Angst, wenn du der Einzige bist.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And that's a natural feeling. I feel that way when I'm in a boardroom and it's mostly men and I'm the only woman. And when I'm about to raise my hand and ask a question and you kind of sometimes see that blank look, right? I'm like, oh, do they think I'm stupid? Do I belong here? Do you still think that now? Of course, because I still think it's like anything. It's like when you're meditating.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Do the thoughts still come? Yes, they do. Oh, yes, they do. Und jedes Mal, wenn meine Freundinnen einen negativen Gespräch machen, frage ich sie, wovon es geht. Ich höre alle von uns über das Impostor-Syndrom sprechen und fühle mich so. Und ich frage mich, wann hat das Impostor-Syndrom angefangen? Woher kam es her? Und was ich gelernt habe, ist, dass das Impostor-Syndrom in den 70er-Jahren kam.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Also in den 70er-Jahren war es eine Weltwelle für Frauen. Title IX, Roe v. Wade, wir hatten die Kontrolle über unsere Reproduktivrechte, die Frauen begannen, in den Arbeitsplatz zu reisen. Es gab eine Veränderung in der Kultur. Es gab eine Veränderung im Arbeitsplatz von mehr und mehr und mehr Frauen, die einsteigen.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
An dieser Zeit ist genau dann, als dieser Begriff kommt, außer es heißt Imposter Phänomenon. Und es wurde tatsächlich benutzt und geschaffen, um weiße Frauen zu beschreiben. Phänomenum turns into syndrome. Now, anytime you put, you interview doctors all the time, so you recognize this. When you call something a syndrome, we immediately think, oh, that's biological. It's inevitable, right?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
That I am going to, I can't help it. Most women think imposter syndrome is kind of like that. It's biological. It's inevitable that women, that I am going to feel this way at some point in my life. That's why it's so universal. Going back to the fact that every woman will essentially raise their hand and say, I experienced this and it prevented me from actually taking drugs.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
So I think it's really important when we see these things in particular for women and for people of color to recognize when did that term start and what context did it start in? And so I always look for what I call the cons. And imposter syndrome very much falls into becoming popularized in culture at a time of a tremendous amount of women's progress.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Imposter Syndrome. So we have all heard about it. And let's be honest, we've all felt it. That little voice in your head saying, you don't belong here. You're not good enough. Everyone's going to find out that you're a big fraud. Imposter Syndrome is a lie.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Anytime you see women's progress, right, you will see essentially a backlash. Wir sehen es gerade.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Es ist so lustig, wenn wir, wir haben immer gesagt, dass die Geschichte sich wiederholt. Wir wissen das. Aber es ist immer interessant für mich, zu sehen, wie es sich wiederholt in jedem unserer Leben. Ob es um Imposter-Syndrom geht, oder es kommt von der Mutter, es kommt von der Mittagszeit, der Menopause. Es gibt so viele verschiedene Orte. Ja. that I see that backlash happening.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Like, you know, I call it in midlife, it's like the midlife penalty. And you see it essentially like, you know, the biggest gender pay gap is actually for women over age 50. Because we feel like either, you know, you're going to have all these caregiving responsibilities or you're going to be experiencing menopause. Employers are like, it's not worth it. We don't want to hire women over 50.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
We don't want to promote that. And you see it with health. As you know, as the expert kind of in this field of like, why is it that we don't invest in women's health? And we haven't talked about investing in women's health. Do I need to take something? Do I need to take the day off? They're like, no, no, no, you'll be fine. It's a little pinch.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Now, as someone who's had a handful of DNCs and miscarriages and all the fertility stuff, that's exactly what they say about C-Sections, about DNCs, right? It's a pinch. Because they're doing it all the time. So, of course, you know, I get my biopsy. It is not a fucking pinch. It's not a pinch. Okay. I have a fundraising meeting and a panel, you know, that I'm going to speak at. Oh mein Gott.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
It is a trick to make you feel that you are not good enough.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und der Punkt ist, dass wir nicht die Schmerzen der Frauen wertschätzen. Und wir investieren nicht die Menge, die wir investieren müssen in die Gesundheit der Frauen und in die Ressourcen der Frauen. Ich meine, hör mal, wenn Männer das tun, würden sie sagen, nimm einen Monat ab, Junge.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und der Punkt ist, dass wenn diese Erfahrungen in deinen 40ern und 50ern passieren, dann bist du an einem Punkt so, fuck it. Und du ziehst dich zurück aus deinen Träumen, aus deinen Aspirationen. Und ich denke, das Impostor-Syndrom fällt in die gleiche Lücke.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Meine nächste Gäste auf der Tampson Show, Reshma Sujani, ist ein Powerhouse. Sie ist die Founderin von Girls Who Code, die Millionen von Mädchen die Fähigkeiten, die sie brauchen, in der Technologie zu wachsen, und sie wurde letztendlich in Moms First gefunden, wo sie für verfügbare Kindertagesstätten und bezahlbare Auflösung kämpft.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Weil du denkst, wenn ich niemals fühlen werde, dass ich gehöre, wenn ich immer fühlen werde, als wäre ich ein Verbrecher, stell dir vor, dass du schon jeden Tag auf der Arbeit zeigst und du denkst, dass du nicht da gehörst, dass du nicht gut genug bist, dass du nicht wert bist und du gehst durch Perimenopause. Und jetzt ist es biologisch, dass du dich so fühlst.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich denke, Arbeits-Lehre-Balance hat Frauen den Prozess beschädigt. Weil du denkst, warte, was zur Hölle, ich fühle keine Balance hier.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich muss etwas falsch machen. Und ich denke, wir als Frauen, wir müssen alle zusammenkommen für eine Hausparty und sagen, lass uns in den Diktator gehen und alle Wörter finden.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
that have impeded women's progress, that have prevented us from actually living our fullest potential. And let's stop using them.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
So you delivered a commencement speech in 2023, Smith College, and you referenced bicycle face. Bike face. Bike face.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
I have these little bicycles all over my house now that people send me.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
What is bicycle face for people that don't know?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
So when the bicycle came out, you know, it had like one big wheel in the front and one tiny wheel in the back. So if you're riding it, you would tip over. Und als das Bicycle auch herauskam, war es nicht nur von Männern verwendet, sondern auch von Frauen. Und es wurde in den 1920er-Jahren von Frauen verwendet, in dem Suffrage-Movement, um von Stadt zu Stadt zu gehen.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Und sie haben ihre kleinen Suffrage-Signale nach vorne gesteckt. Sie brauchten keinen Mann mehr, um mit einem Horsenstiel zurückzukehren. Es gab ihnen Freiheit. Es hat den Movement gebaut. Und als die Leute das sahen, was sie sahen, kam der Bein-Face-Termin heraus. Und weil man sich übernimmt, wurde der Bein-Face-Termin benutzt, wie wenn dein Gesicht flüssig ist. Weißt du, was ich meine?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Du bist rot, du bist unattraktiv. Und du würdest diese Poster sehen. Und so wurde es als Taktik benutzt, Frauen von ihrem Biken zu verhindern. Es wurde als Taktik genutzt, um Frauen auszulösen, um das Recht zu wählen. Und also, für mich ist Bikeface wie Impostor-Syndrom. Auch als diese medizinischen Termine, an einem Moment von enormem Erfolg der Frauen, als eine Bedeutung dieses Erfolges.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Sie ist ein bestsellender Autor, ein TED-Sprecher und ein Trailer, der ihre Karriere verbracht hat, diese Narrativen, die Frauen zurückhalten.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And it works. The con. The con works. Ja, genau.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Es ist lustig, wie du es erwähnt hast. Ich denke, als ich älter geworden bin, habe ich mein Leben zurückgeschaut. Ich dachte früher, dass ich viele verschiedene Karrieren hatte. Aber wenn ich mich jetzt daran erinnere, habe ich immer das gleiche gemacht. Ich denke, wenn du zu einem bestimmten Punkt in deiner Karriere kommst, besonders wenn du ein Hustler bist, wenn du ambitiös bist.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
No one just lets us in. I think work-life balance has impeded women's progress.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ich bin ein Workaholic. Ich bin durch Arbeit geführt. Ich bin durch Ausdruck geführt. Und du kommst zu einem bestimmten Ort, weil Dinge mit deinem Alter passieren. Ich habe zwei junge Kinder. Meine Eltern werden älter. Mein Körper funktioniert einfach nicht in der gleichen Weise. Ich kann nicht zwei rote Augen in einer Runde nehmen. Dass du anfängst zu sagen, ist das, worum es geht?
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Ist das, worum mein Leben geht? Ist das, worum es sein soll? Ist das wirklich, was mich glücklich macht? Und an diesem Moment habe ich wirklich mehr in die Richtung gegangen. Ich habe ein Stand-Up-Meeting mit einem Mönch jedes zwei Wochen. Und ich habe meine Beziehung mit Gott gestärkt.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
And what I realized in this kind of journey is that like my gift, and it's always been my gift, is my voice, is my ability to communicate. And because of like my parents came here as refugees, when I see people getting taken advantage of, hurt, it just creates like a fury in me. Like a swell. Yeah. And I just... I just stand up and fight and I've always been that way.
The Tamsen Show
Reshma Saujani: Imposter Syndrome Is a Lie
Because you're like, wait, what the f***, I don't feel any balance here. So even if you've ever doubted yourself, felt like you don't belong, or wondered if it's too late to reinvent yourself, this conversation is for you. I know this sounds weird, but like, I actually enjoy... Now let's get started. Let's welcome Reshma Sujani to The Tamsin Show. First of all, it's so good to see you.