Rebecca Jennings

Like doing the rounds where it's like, hey, we broke up, like don't really want to talk about it. Doing that could be a way of kind of pushing the hard work of talking about it individually with every single person you know down the road when you're in a better place.

That's amazing.

Thanks for having us.

Is it ever okay to post breakup details online? In my opinion, you have every right to make art out of your pain. And if your art is posting, I love that for you. So I will never, ever censor someone's freedom to post whatever they want, even if it means blowing up their life.

Now, the thing, you know, as someone who writes about the internet is I will tell you is that if it's really dramatic and if it's really messy, that will leave your circle and you might become the internet's main character. And if you want to do that, if you're ready to do that is a question that's up to you.

Okay. I mean, posters etiquette, it kind of boils down to one thing, which is never post. Obviously, that's not the world we live in. But it basically boils down to this idea that every post is probably a mistake. Anytime some niche drama goes viral on one corner of the internet, very, very quickly, the rest of the internet will follow.

And so what happens is you'll see someone make a little video that they didn't think was going to break outside of their own circle where they're – talking about, say, a guy that ghosted them and was, you know, did crappy stuff to them on dating apps.

This video shows up on your For You page and you happen to be dating a West Elm Caleb, consider yourself warned. And then another girl was like, he did the same thing to me.

People find the guy. It takes roughly two seconds to find the guy if you have the whole internet working on it. And then the guy gets fired from his job and whatever. And it's like, the punishment isn't quite fitting the crime here.

You're kind of putting it on the line that the whole internet is going to agree with you, that you are the victim or the good person in this scenario when you have no idea how the internet's going to react. And you will definitely be surprised by how the internet will react.

Oh my God. Well, first of all, this is like the saddest situation. I hate this for me. But okay, I know exactly what I would do. Okay. I would have not one margarita, I would have like 12 margaritas. And then I would post probably something to my close friends on Instagram being like, what the .

I mean, I think the incentives are so different, but also kind of they're becoming more similar. I think in Brianna Chicken Fry's case, she is a woman who's already built a reputation on being like fun and like gossipy. And she has a podcast where she like tells it to you straight.

And I also think that she knows that this breakup she has with this very famous person doesn't really harm her reputation because that's already kind of her thing. And I also think that when you have a regular person, and I'm so glad you brought up the Texas breakup girl. I actually interviewed her and- your life can change in an instant if you kind of

if you just put it all out there and turn it into something people want to watch. And I think that's what, her name's Spritely, that's what she did. And it's interesting when you go back and see her old TikToks, they're very much about her trying to play the algorithm game and kind of being frustrated by it. It's her trying to have her songs blow up and she didn't really find a lot of success.

When I spoke to her, you know, she was very much in grief and I felt so bad for her. And it was just so ironic and sad. The reason she finally got what she wanted, which was like people to hear her music, was like this kind of joke parody song about her breakup.

The incentives for like crying on Maine have changed because so many people have now flipped that into a career. I think you can look at Risa Tisa's 50 part TikTok series, Who the F*** Did I Marry? She now has a TV deal with Shondaland.

But I think that normal people or at least people who, you know, are not quite famous, but at least have some experience online, they know that like if they hit the viral jackpot, this could completely change their life for the better. And so there's never been more incentives to post about a breakup.

Yeah, I don't think any of those women that made the original videos about West End Caleb meant for it to be what it became. You know, like they weren't out to get this guy. And so it was really a case of like a mob kind of justice thing that snowballed way out of control. And I think that's the thing.

And then when I was sober the next morning, I would delete that and then not post for like a year and only text with a core group of friends until I was ready to emerge Phoenix-like back onto everyone's timelines better than ever and glowed up.

It's because like once the Internet gets its claws in something, you have no idea where it's going to end up. And I think in typical cases of sort of like call out culture or cancel culture, that can be very positive for a community culture. This is one of those cases where it doesn't really meet the standard of something that is worth driving to that point. It's like this guy is a nobody.

First of all, he's not a public figure. He's not a famous person. And also what he did doesn't really like the stakes are just not that high for this. The real issue with this kind of dynamic that plays out on social media all the time is that that can just as easily be weaponized against anyone the Internet decides doesn't like.

It's been weaponized against people who don't conform to standards of society. gender or beauty that the internet decides makes you suspect. So when you see it happening to someone like West Elm Kalem, you could say like, well, you know, that guy's, you know, not a very good guy. Who cares what happens to him? I think we should care because it could happen to a lot of other people too.

Yeah, I think as much as we love to talk about like the dangers of posting and of social media, I think it's easy to gloss over the fact that it has been like extraordinarily helpful to connect people that otherwise would never have met thriving or suffering in ways that they relate to. I think that's such a great thing that social media has done.

But, you know, the flip side of that is obviously everyone knowing your business all the time.

Yeah.

One thing that would be helpful for people to ask themselves is something that I think a lot of editors ask writers to think about. And this is maybe a little bit media inside baseball, but when you're pitching a personal essay or if you're writing about something that happened to you. You should be over it by the time you're writing it.

Exactly. You want to be able to take that pain and look at it from afar so that you can say something about it that is more than just a scream into the void. I think making generous use of close friends is really the way to go because A, Instagram stories will delete in 24 hours automatically and you don't really have to confront that again.

And unless someone screenshots it and sends it around like a weirdo, they should not be on your close friends, first of all.

You know, you don't really have to worry about it. And also, you know, that is a way, like Molly said, bringing your community to you, kind of letting the people that you want to know know what's going on with you without having to individually text everyone, which I think can be really hard for people.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, any kind of like self-reflection or journaling, I think that's very helpful for people. I think modern life can often take away time that we might have otherwise spent doing something just very reflective, very slow, very quiet. And I do think it's not necessarily a bad thing that some people are sort of taking that time to figure out what they want.

But at the same time, if you start thinking like bad things happen to bad people and good things happen to good people. And therefore, when I see, you know, an unhomed person on the street, therefore they deserve it. Therefore, I don't have to care about it. Therefore, I only have to care about myself forever.

And we end up in this deeply individualist society that we're already living in, but like worst.

Me too. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you for having us.

I mean, I personally saw it pop up on a ton of my feeds, you know, pretty much every time I scrolled really at the beginning of 2020, at the beginning of the pandemic. And to me, what I saw a lot of was people searching for an element of control over what was going to happen to them when everything felt really chaotic and confusing.

And so not only will this good thing happen, but you can also predict the future. Like you can know what your future will be just by manifesting it. And I think, yeah, you can get health or wealth or love or whatever. But you can also get some certainty.

I was seeing it largely on TikTok and I see so many manifesting TikToks about like, use this sound and he will text you back in 10 minutes.

And the comments are all like, oh my God, it worked. And I'm like, you know what? Maybe. No, I mean, that was a really popular way. It was a lot of, we're going to set a video at a certain frequency. You know, this is the quote unquote love frequency. And if you use this, you're attracting love. Comment, I claim to claim this energy and it will happen for you or save this sound and it will happen.

And I think Two or three years later, you saw yet another rebranding of manifesting in the form of what was called lucky girl syndrome.

And it was basically like, you can use these mantras as well, and therefore you will be a lucky girl too. It is this idea that like through the internet, through what we're posting, we can, you know, have some material effects in the world.

Yes. Yes, period. Popular manifesting creators, they're like, I'm manifesting wealth by doing my mantras. But really what they're doing is manifesting wealth by producing really engaging content. And so they're building businesses off of this.

Yeah. It's also like we all have our own, like, facts about the way the world works. Like, people can't agree on base facts anymore. And I think that's also part of this. Like, so much of this has come out of a climate where people are so terrified that they're going to be the victim of violent crime despite every piece of data showing that violent crime has, like, literally never been lower.

the same kind of misinformation. It really plays into this idea that like you do create your own reality because in some ways you actually do.

Yeah, I think what Tara was saying about magic and algorithms really plays into this here because so much of our lives are lived online. No one knows, even the people that work at these companies, like how these algorithms really work. So when you get a video on your feed saying this is actually not a coincidence, like you were meant to find this video and the good things are coming for you.

It like almost feels like true because, you know, who's to say that it wasn't? And, you know, your phone has all this data about you. And so it does on some level know you better than anything else in the world. Modern religion, which fewer and fewer of us are being raised with or kind of being part of, these are things that like

Some modern religion has no real answer for because they've never been invented until now.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's something so deeply American about all of this. I feel like there's even strains of Puritanism in there, like this kind of predestination. You know, we are also at this time of severe wealth inequality and We've been privy to how the one percent really live in the form of social media. Like we can see what every rich person is doing online.

We can see what they're buying. We can see at least the part that they want to show. And so it provides this sort of like, well, this is you can have all of this, you know, because they're just like you. They're also on the same Internet. They're posting on the same places. But your life doesn't look like them. But it could be.

It's never been really more tempting to engage with this kind of thinking because it feels so possible. So I think that that also makes it very appealing to decide that, you know, like I too can become one of them by just thinking positively.

Tree houses and cool rocks that you can pretend are castles, rivers and like old statues that look like they were there from like a previous age. Like crumbling around you from like the Numenoreans. Yeah.

Not at this moment.

I would want to know like what lore these people have like the bed creaking by themselves. That's what that's what interests me. What are the like what are the king and queen thinking about that? Because they seem like real freaks. Like I need to know like I need to know everything about these people. And yeah, I bet there's some good lore there.

Okay, this has all the makings for a forbidden romance. And it sounds like a movie. Like, I love this. What do you think of these rules? I mean, I think the no personalization thing is the thing that is the weirdest, because like if this is a camp where people can be little freaks, like don't you want your counselors to also be little freaks? Like that doesn't make sense to me.

The no booze thing I get, it's like there's kids and the no dating. I mean, I get it on a level where it's like, you know, you could have a situation where a kid walks in on two people fucking, which is not great. Not great. No.

Aw, okay.

Oh, man. So here's the problem is that there's no alcohol in this camp because that could be solved night one real quick. Have like three drinks and then being like, so you're gay, right?

No, I think he's flirting. Also, it seems like in my head, Jeremiah is the kind of guy that like flirts with everybody, like flirts with anyone, no matter what gender they are, how old they are, like just kind of a flirty, like sweet kind of golden retriever-esque person.

So I think that makes it actually a little more difficult to figure out whether that's real flirting or like the kind of golden retriever flirting that guys like that do with everybody.

Yeah, and they've never been named Cody, but... Continue. Cody is like the class clown.

Dakota Fanning in like every movie before she was like 12. Like a mini adult who's like really uptight and loves to be right and likes to win and likes to be the center of attention, but not in a way that like they want people to think they're the center of attention.

The child like that wants to be an adult and like wants to like do whatever the adults are doing. Know about like dating and crushes. I'm sure if you're 12, you already care about that. But especially if it's like if you're obsessed with adults, you want to know like who's fucking. And also like, you know, wanting to like tell the other campers what to do and finding ways to get that. Yeah.

I'm rooting for Cody. Yeah.

This is a journalist. And I hope wherever he is, he is like an investigative reporter.

Normally, no. But for Cody, yeah. Cody is like doing work like Cody is like contributing to the science of paranormal studies.

I mean, first of all, I would want it like I would want to know their dating history. I think I'm like, are you dating anybody? Like, is that weird to ask? I wouldn't feel weird about asking that. And then kind of slowly move into like, what's your type and who you're into? Yeah. Like, just go for it.

Again, let Cody cook. Well, I was playing with a Ouija board when I was like 14.

Oh, my God. Okay, also, shout out to Cody for, like, wingmanning this whole thing. Right? That's an ally.

Rebecca, hello. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. I love nothing more than to gossip.

Oh, okay.

Oh, my gosh. Recently, gossip has been making me really paranoid. Like every time I hear people gossip, like 95 percent of me is like, oh, my God. Yes. Like this is what human beings do. This is what human communication is, is what friendship is. And then the other five percent is like, well, if they're saying this about one person, like what are they saying about me?

I think that's one of those drinks you can like get at the grocery store, right? Because it's like barely alcohol. It's definitely a lot of sugar. Yes.

Yeah, I do love a shooter. Like when it's like they put a little juice in it or something. Yes. That's fun.

If I were there, I would have clocked it, but that's because I'm nosy. Yeah. So it depends on the drunkenness and the snoopiness of the other counselors, I guess.

These are already weird children acting wicked weird. Okay.

That's homophobia. So I would be feeling righteous anger and concern.

Well, that's so cute. OK, I think there's a really cute way to do it, which like you bring everyone to like a campfire or something and you're like, we're going to say this special song and that drives the ghosts away or something.

And then you're like you have a stern chat with Cody being like, I know you don't believe in this shit, but you're going to go along with it because all of your campers are really scared and it's kind of your fault. You treat Cody like the adult that he is and you get him on your side.

The taxpaying, job-having, wrinkle-having kid that this Cody is. Yeah.

Yeah, but it's like I feel like this is a newer thing with me. Like it just is making me really empathic. anxious and paranoid a lot. So I'm glad that we're talking about this in a safe space where gossip is being condoned and entertainment for all.

Of course it is. This man did his job.

Also, James Hawkins is a perfect, like, missing kid name in the 1930s. Like, old James Hawkins down by the river.

Oh, my God.

I just want things to work out, and I fear it will not for anyone. Mainly Cody.

Do you believe this child? Oh, oh, God. I mean, no, I don't believe him as much as I want to root for him. I don't believe little Cody. He's still 12, even though he's a grown man.

He literally is like, oh, like, what's the number again?

What do you think Cody has to share? Well, there's two pieces of things he could say to make it way worse than it already is. One is that two of the counselors want to fuck. And the other one is that he knows there's a dead ghost. There's a child dead ghost.

Oh, Cody. What an angel. And, okay, did he actually make it up? Or did he just say that so that, like, people would calm down?

Yeah. And this is because I am about to get married. I know that there are all these group chats that don't involve me about like people. And it's also I'm having a destination wedding and everyone like on TikTok all the time. I see people like if you're if you have a destination wedding, you're a shitty person. And I'm like, oh, cool. Love that. All my friends probably hate me.

He should do this for a living. Send him to all the camps and have him do this. And then the rest of the time, he's at work. He's at work on his computer.

Oh, my God. That's so good. After they'd already given a generous donation to let him in the first time. Oh, that's so good. Oh, my God. I think Cody might be like our age. I actually don't know how old you are, but like if he was 12 in 2007, like he's only like what, like a year, couple of years younger than us.

He's not giving Republican energy, I will say.

Because he didn't red out the days.

No, Cody is perfect. And I want to adopt him as my friend. Do you think Cody did anything wrong? You know... That's what the camp is for.

Well, he was yes anding. He was using the principles of improv to A, to see it. There was nothing in the contract that said he couldn't do this.

How would he have known? How would he have known? Talk about an active imagination. Like, this is genius. And we should be encouraging more of this. And follow through. God, what really, really impressive stuff. And again, I want to meet his parents. I want to meet him now. Yeah. We like I need you to ask this person, like, where's Cody? Like, where is he? I'll do that.

But no, it's like, you know, people planning about when they're arriving and what they're doing and which is totally normal and fine. But meanwhile, it's making me like, oh, my God, everyone's so mad at me for having a wedding. And meanwhile, it's like they're doing the kindest thing in the world by like showing up for me and celebrating me.

They're married? Oh, my God. This is so cute.

Oh, my God. How old are they now? Like in their 40s, probably?

That was such a good story. You're such a good storyteller. Thank you so much. I like that that was like a fun one. Yeah.

That's so sweet. Like, no, like it felt so cinematic. And I have like characters in my mind for Ash who has blue hair. I'm sorry. Like this is... Yes. I'm sorry. There's a video game that I play where there's an ash with blue hair and that's why. And Cody is like your little sniveling prince who secretly got a heart of gold.

This is so good.

And that just makes me like, oh, my God, they all secretly hate me. And so, you know, like whenever you're at a time in your life where people are constantly saying like congratulations to you, you're like, oh, and then there's there's a side chat like outside because they're like, oh, my God, she is being obnoxious again. She's being whatever. And this is completely in my head. Yeah.

And sometimes even when I haven't like I haven't expressed anything, but I'm like, but I should have or like I should have done a different thing. What would that other person have done? And this is also I was reading How Should a Person Be, which is an entire novel of this woman just thinking that the whole time. It's like, I should be more like her. No, I should be more like him.

No, I should be more like her. And I'm just like, yeah, I relate. Yeah. Wow.

I have a tendency to do that.

When it can never get back to me and when it doesn't involve me and when it's like mostly like fun. Yes. Love, love, love, love.

Okay. So I asked one of my group chats. I was like, yo, like I'm going on normal gossip. What should I say? I'm going to steal one of my friend's bathroom stories. So my friend, we'll call her Claire. She was known in college for like only ever taking a shit at her own house. Like she would never ever...

take a shit anywhere else and so she's about to graduate and she goes to this like graduation party and it's like at this like crappy college house and she's like okay like I'm about to graduate like I need to be an adult and actually like take a shit somewhere that isn't my personal toilet so she goes into this

Bathroom and you can probably guess where this is going shitty pipes it does not flush and she's freaking out there's someone banging on the door outside and she's like oh my god freaking out freaking out she like does the thing because like like any like person who's shy about that like that's this is their worst fear and they will like study how to what to do when this happens but nothing was working.

And she leaves and she's like someone's banging on the door and she leaves and she's like, no, no, don't go in there like someone. I was trying to fix it, but someone like took a shit in there and they were like, ew, who would do that? And then like they got the host over and they're like, oh, my God, that's so crazy that someone would do that and just like leave it there.

She's like, yeah, I know. And then I was like, well, I know it wasn't you because you never take a shit out. And so she was like, she was like, oh, my God, I just got away with this. And to this day, her friends have no idea that it was her. And I think that if she ever like gives a toast for someone's like birthday or wedding or something, she should be like, and by the way, that shit was mine.

And I really hope that one of them is listening right now because that would just be really fun. Yeah. We know who it was.

Oh my God, I'm so ready.

Yeah, we had a bed bug. And so like both of like me and my roommate had to like move in with like the dudes we were seeing at the time. It was horrible. One bed bug ruined my life for like several months. Oh, my God.

Yeah, it was bad. This was like back when the bedbugs were like the number one issue facing New York City. Now there's others.

I think that's so fun. I've always like wanted to do that. Having never gone to like a sleepaway camp or a summer camp like that. I'm like, oh, my God, parent trap. Like, I want that. So I totally get this.

Oh, I thought you were going to say tell us what Gondor is. LARPing is live action role playing. It's like when you, you know, are kind of doing improv, but it's a game sort of like D&D, but you're wearing costumes and you're like running around and stuff and like sword fighting.

Yeah, it's like how to not raise incels, but still meeting them where they're at.

I mean, yeah, that's kind of how you have to approach it. It's like you're kind of doing immersive performance art. Like, I love that choice.

Yeah. What he's giving, like, these kids should be paying for. I mean, they are paying for it, I guess. Yeah.

Oh, no. He's gonna, like, private equity the shit out of this camp. Oh, my God. These poor little incels, babies.

I would watch an HBO Sunday night show about Succession of Camp Gondor. I'm just saying. Same.

I have a lot of concerns because I feel like these kids, and including Ash, are too gentle for Gondor Kendall.

Oh, my God. I ship this so hard, but I know it's not going to end the way I hope it does.

Mufasa and the hot cats and the aristocats.

Oh, my God. This is like my dream camp when I was that age. So I hope that it has like a little like a shire, like a little area where they're like, it's all you do is like run around and like dance. And they obviously their kids that they can't drink, but like probably have like that's probably where like the food is. Yeah. And like cool, like forest stuff like that.

That's about eight weeks I spent on that George Foreman lean, mean, fat-reducing grilling machine. I would grill right in the bedroom, steaks and salmon steaks, and I was able to lose a lot of weight, and I'd use it. The thing really works. And recently in Texas, they just started this home equity loan. People can borrow that little extra money they need on their mortgages.

And what has that got to do with the price of tea in China or the result of this fight? Trying to sell my grill, Larry.

No heterosexual marriage, no heterosexual dating, no heterosexual sex, and no childbearing under any circumstances.

Yeah, so this is a movement that developed among South Korean feminists around the late 2010s. It's part of what the Me Too movement looked like in that country. Huh. Developed mostly on feminist Twitter, it stems out of this other movement called Escape the Corset, which calls for you to cut your hair short, maybe shave your head, give up makeup and abandon work. overtly feminine clothes.

So that's why you'll sometimes see in the 4B TikToks right now, women might shave their heads or talk about doing that.

Escape the corset and 4B are both responding to really, really specific things in South Korea. The gender wars there have looked very intense over the past decade. Escape the corset is emerging as a response to the intensity of beauty standards in South Korea. A lot of listeners might be familiar with K-beauty as a concept, like Korean skincare and makeup. It's a huge market.

It's really, really fashionable in the US. Korea is actually the third largest exporter of cosmetics in the world. They have the most plastic surgeons per capita. Plastic surgery is a really common graduation gift there. Most job applications require you to submit a headshot.

There's a lot of pressure on people in general, but especially on women to have this really specific, really high maintenance look. And Escape the Corset is about saying, okay, we're going to choose not to participate in those expectations, right? And it's also a country with a really low birth rate.

So the government there has tried a lot of different things to try to get people to have more kids. And there's one really infamous initiative that happens in 2016. That's when the South Korean government releases a birth map that has different cities colored in different shades of pink, depending on how many fertile women live there. Ooh. Yeah, so do a ton of women. This is really dehumanizing.

They're like, okay, the government is treating us like cattle, like we're livestock. And 4B is a way of saying, you know what? We are opting out of being breeding animals for you. No, thank you. So that's sort of the intellectual background for these two movements. But we start to see them pick up steam as a response to a string of gender-motivated crimes.

So in 2016, there's the infamous Gangnam murder, which is when a man stabbed a random woman to death in the Gangnam neighborhood in Seoul.

She died because she's a woman. He said that he did it because women had always ignored him. This sparks this huge response from women across the country. They all start posting the hashtag survived. The idea being, you know, I could have been killed too. I survived only out of luck.

There's also this phenomenon in South Korea known as MOCA, which is the online distribution of non-consensual images of women for sexual purposes. It's a giant, extremely lucrative industry. And it is getting supplied basically by men with pinhole cameras just kind of lurking in creepy public places, like... subway stations, public bathrooms, even motel rooms to get these images.

But what's really surprising about Molka is that only 9% of the perpetrators who are caught actually see jail time. They're mostly fined. So in 2018, this woman's taking a life drawing class with a nude model. During a break, he stays nude. She asks him to cover up. He says no. She kind of irritably snaps a picture of him and posts it online.

Sort of the same way that a woman here might photograph like a man spreader or something kind of to shame him. But in this image, he is nude. She is arrested and charged and sentenced to 10 months in jail under Molka laws.

So to a lot of women, this seems like a huge double standard, and they start protesting, and they get more and more involved in these feminist protest movements, including Escape the Corset and 4B.

So this is a way of saying for a lot of women, okay, our only value in the society is our value as objectified sexual objects and as childbearing vessels, and we are not going to do either of those things for you any longer.

Yeah, so I'm seeing quite a few different responses. A lot of posters are getting into the idea for be kind of in the same spirit that you might just be like, well, I'm going to move to Canada. You know, it's not necessarily a serious commitment. It's just kind of something you say as an expression of how mad you are. There are also people who are taking it really seriously.

They're like, this is what I'm going to do now. Or they're like, I'm researching it. I'm considering it. But on the other hand, there's also a lot of pretty loud right-wing responses.

And there are also a fair amount of rape threats in response. There are a lot of comments in response to the 4B videos saying things like, your body, my choice. There's some tweets that are like, you know, women are threatening sex strikes, like they have a choice in it. That's kind of the edgelord response to this.

I think there are certainly people in the United States practicing celibacy, some of them for political reasons. I am not seeing an organized movement around it here like there is in South Korea. I think it's a way of expressing frustrations and a way of toying with the idea of what your life might look like should you decide to opt out of what our culture tends to ask women's lives to look like.

A lot of the popular feminist movements in America over the past decade or so have been kind of widespread expressions of rage. Things like the Women's March and the Me Too movement have been more about expressing we are very angry about the things that have been done than necessarily about campaigning and making concrete demands.

So I think one thing that American feminists might be able to take from 4B is the idea of being very specific about what we want from our country and the action points that we are going to take to try to get there.

Yes, so certainly there are some women who are very into the Trump thing, but there are also a lot of young American women online who are just feeling really, really despondent. I'm just sad. I'm worried. Yeah, I just woke up feeling kind of disgusted and ashamed.

A lot of thoughts going through my mind. Which, you know, is pretty understandable, right? So these are women who saw a lot of their peers, both male and female, becoming more and more drawn to the right, embracing this kind of hyper-macho, anti-woman attitude. They saw the overturning of Roe v. Wade, meaning they lost a right they were born with.

And then they saw the re-election of the guy who got it overturned in the first place. So in response to all this, a lot of younger women on social media, especially on TikTok, are getting really into the idea of this movement that comes out of South Korea. It is called 4B, and it calls for women to boycott men. Boycott men?