R. Alexander Bentley
Appearances
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
And that's where I come to the conclusion that almost everything we're doing, we are actually learning from someone else. They just might happen to be in the past.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
Yeah. You know, in the 60s, they invented that term called future shock, and I think we experience it now. Most of human history is a time where change was very gradual, something that maybe you wouldn't even think of as every generation.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
It makes you think about our kind of, it's kind of remarkable, I think, that humans can handle the amount of change that we experience today, where it's almost intra-generation change. you know within a generation a younger sibling may grow up on different media platforms than an older sibling it's really insane that we don't all go a little bit crazy so do you ever say i'll have what she's having
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
Yeah, I did so just recently, yes. It's really fun to do and actually don't even know what the other person's having. I'll just go with that. And so ironically, you wind up doing the unique thing by saying, I'll have what she's having because you never actually tried it. Well, I could never do that.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
We do. We love to think we're not. And I remember when we had a son who was born in the early 2000s. But before we knew it was going to be a boy, we were thinking of girls names. And I thought, oh, right, Lily. Lily would be a great name. It just seems really different and unique. And of course, I went and looked it up, and it just broke into the top ten.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
But I was trying to pick something that was unique and I couldn't, you just can't escape it. Maybe you've had this happen to you before where you try to say something original or you think you've come up with original joke and then people have already heard it.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
There's a little bit more about the fundamental nature of this in our brains. So about... Several hundred thousand years ago, Neanderthals were on the planet. They survived until about 30,000 years ago. But at some point, our ancestors, modern humans, evolved a gene which produced a protein which facilitated the development of neurons as when we develop as babies and children.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
in the neocortex the neocortex is the part of the brain that handles all of our social relations oh what's she thinking our theory of mind i'm trying to think right now what you're thinking about what i'm saying that's theory of mind i'm trying to put myself in your place all those abilities evolved in us probably after we diverged from neanderthals at least in that lineage
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
The point being, we're so specialized at social learning, social relations, thinking about what others are thinking, doing things collectively, that it's literally in our genes and it's what's made us distinct from even the closest cousins we have in our ancient evolutionary ancestry. So it really is something, social learning is really something to think about as absolutely part of us.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
And once you start thinking about that and about the fact that most of human society was traditional, learning things from previous generations, I think that you can become a lot more comfortable with doing as others do or I'll have what she's having. And I don't mean conformity. Conformity is something different. Well, it sounds like conformity.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
For a hundred years or even more, we've always assumed that humans are fundamentally rational creatures. And one of the arguments that I've been trying to make is that we are fundamentally social creatures and much of what we do and decide is based on what others around us are doing.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
Conformity is doing something that maybe is even against what you think is correct just because others are doing it. And it does remind me of that classic experiment from the 1950s where I could walk into a room and several people point at a line on a piece of paper and say, this line is exactly like this other line when I can see that they're clearly very different lengths.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
And it was shown in the 1950s that, you know, if most of the people are saying that and I walk in, I'll just go with it, even though I know that it's not true. But if just one person out of that group that are, you know, in there, the scientists put them in there, it's all part of an act.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
But if they do the experiment where just one person says, no, actually, those two lines are different lengths, then the person in the experiment would very often have the confidence to say, oh, yeah, yeah, no, that's not true. So it takes very little for people to break out of their conformity. But it's still a form of social learning. It still took someone else to kind of break that spell.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
And now you think, oh, here's an actual expert. Here's somebody who seems to be able to see straight, and these other people can't. So I'm going to believe what that person said, and that person helps me trust my gut. So even when we're trusting our gut, social learning can help us do that.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
Thanks, Mike. This has been fantastic and I loved your questions.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
The main thing is that for a hundred years or even more, we've always assumed that humans are fundamentally rational creatures, that they weigh up costs and benefits and then they make a decision based on that.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
And one of the arguments that I've been trying to make for a couple of decades now as an anthropologist is that we are fundamentally social creatures and much of what we do and decide and even opine is based on what others around us are doing.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
The first example is that babies will imitate the facial expressions of their parents right away. Children, young children and toddlers will imitate certain tasks to get a little reward like a treat or something out of a box.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
They prefer to imitate what they've just seen, even in a situation where it might be a very complex action that has been demonstrated to them, where a chimpanzee will just figure out how to do it without imitating. Toddlers prefer to imitate rather than the more simple action. And the most evident example is simply language.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
All humans have an innate capacity to learn language very quickly as children. But of course, we each learn a different language from our parents or caregivers right from birth.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
Why not get something you really want? Because that is probably what you want. Everything I say is informed by what I know about human evolution and the way our brains came to be. And one of the things that's important in evolution is of survival, of course. And saying I'll have what she's having usually works.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
I can't see you right now, but if I said I'll wear what you're wearing tomorrow to work, it would be fine. If you know, even if you're thinking about what stock to invest in and if you know somebody who pretty good investor, just say, I'll buy what she's buying. It works wonders and it saves us an incredible amount of time. We can't all be experts on everything.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
One of the things to think about is that you're not always copying people in the room at the same time. A lot of the things that you're doing, and maybe I'm bending the definition here, but you're copying people from previous generations. If you go to an Italian restaurant, you're copying people within a culinary tradition from previous generations.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
And as an archaeologist, I know that dietary traditions in different parts of the world survived for thousands of years. So if you think of it that way, maybe I'm not copying somebody right here, but what's influencing my decision? Is this really independent, what I'm deciding here?
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
Yeah, it's a tough question. I mean, look around you on the table and the equipment that you're using right now. It's all been generated by science or people learning from the from previous examples, building building technology up from what they've learned before. I like to think of it as we have a certain number of innate capacities.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
So if you needed to do something like maybe cut a rope or something and you saw some rocks around you, maybe you figure out how to pound out a couple of stone tools or break off a flake of tool and cut that rope. But beyond that, so many of the things that we do, or even our ancient ancestors did, was learned. And that's the basis for the success of our species.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
So we have, what is innate is our capacity to do this learning. We're the best in the business at this. We can imitate like no other species on the planet.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
Yeah, yeah. So there are lots of nuanced details about the way that we copy. And one of the things that humans will do and chimpanzees will do this as well and a few other species of monkeys is we prefer to copy. individuals who are high ranking in the ranking system or prestigious or successful. But it's interesting because that's not even specific to our species.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
Even fish learning, trying to stickle back fish, little fish, learning where food is, will actually kind of sit in the vegetation and watch to see which other fish, where they're getting their food and whether they were successful or not. So the point is that the copying is not just ad hoc, it's strategic.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
And we do that right from when we're children, where children are more inclined to copy or learn from others when they're uncertain of something. But think about the fact that if we go back a few centuries and then go way back thousands and thousands of years,
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
we humans and their ancestors lived in small communities and we always they always knew who the experts were and the experts are always peep in different topics so they might be an expert in your village in yam cultivation it might be somebody who knows about fishing and there might be somebody who knows about medicinal plants in a hunter-gatherer society We always know who those experts are.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
And so when I come to a new neighborhood, I know this person's an expert on local dentists, and I'm going to trust that person. I think that's a pretty deep seated kind of trust that we have in asking other people, particularly when we have some reason to think that they're at least some kind of expert, which is something we don't have online. We have no idea who the experts are online.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, when I go, you know, if I'm going to buy a car, I go and look at all the statistics and metrics and stuff like that online and try to make a decision based on that. And still, I might wind up...
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
buying something that I just saw on the street not too long ago, because you'd be surprised how often what you when you think you're making an original decision. And I used to notice this about baby names as well. You think you're coming up with something original and you look, you look it up and it's one of the most trending things out there.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
But when we are uncertain about things, that's when we're most likely to make decisions by learning from others. So you gave that great example of learning directions in a new neighborhood. Children will do this as well. When they're uncertain about something, they're more likely to then copy a parent or something.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
And it was shown years ago that when people are confronted with a complex problem in a psychological experiment, like something looking at some kind of obscure facts or or or some kind of puzzle. If it's a difficult problem, they're more likely to look it up on Google. And it seems obvious. And if it's an easy problem, they're more likely to just do it themselves.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
So we gauge when to socially learn versus when to try to solve something ourselves.
Something You Should Know
Why We’re Wired to Imitate Others & How to Have a Great Conversation
that's kind of philosophical. I'm often amazed at how good Wikipedia usually is. And that's because it's moderated to my knowledge by human experts. So, or if you're a scientist, to what degree are you learning from others? I mean, ideally science, science is building on the shoulders of giants. So it, it, If you kind of think about it, you can really go deep into it.