P.J. Carlesimo

But, I mean, you can control it in the NBA when you've got that one, That one group of officials, when Monty McCutcheon and all the people in New York and New Jersey, they've got evaluators at every game. And, you know, what they want is consistency. Is it perfect? No. I mean, it's the hardest game in the world to referee basketball, especially on the NBA level.

But they can do a great job controlling it. It's just so tough from conference to conference. I was with Chris Rastatter, who's the national rules guy, happened to be at the Big East tournament. He's there with John Cal. Both of them were Final Four officials, great officials. But it's like... It's so hard for them to legislate the way the NBA does.

I thought for a lot of the year, I actually thought it was Auburn. I hadn't seen them in person, which is all, you know, again, I don't see as many in person. And it's hard. It's different. I don't I don't know why, but it's just different sitting there seeing the quickness, seeing a team. And like, you know, I came out of the Big East tournament feeling I really knew those teams.

I mean, it doesn't matter if you're Zach Zabra, if you're one of the best officials in the league, or if you're some new person just up from the G League getting 10 games this year. They get graded and taught the same way. Now, again, everybody knows who the good officials are and they're going to advance, but it's just impossible. You hit on... The physical, the rebounding is the biggest thing.

There's no question. And I didn't see, I'm going to rewatch it before our games on Thursday. I didn't see what was going on in there. St. John's on the boards is like Georgetown, is like Houston, like Georgetown used to be, like Houston is now. You could call a foul every single time on the grass. Cal's guys got to be just as good. They got to be just as physical also.

So a game like that, you just hope they let them play. I mean, invariably, you know, by the second time out, I'm saying to Ryan Radke or Kevin Kugler, whoever I'm with, They got to adjust. They being both. The players got to adjust, but hopefully the officials are going to adjust, too. You know, we're at the first second time out. One team's got four fouls. The other team's got five.

I mean, come on. We don't want to make this a free throw game. And the refs would say, well, we got to keep it under control. That's that art that I think is very, very difficult for players to adjust. and for the officials to adjust.

But to me, it's gotten to the point where it's tougher for college teams to adjust now because of the, I don't know what the word is, how changed the rosters are from year to year, how young the rosters are, and they're just not wound as tight as they used to be.

Right.

People are overreacting. I think they're right. I think they're right. I think we're headed that way, unfortunately. But it wasn't as much like that last year, the year before. We're finally through with COVID, I think. I don't think there's any more kids playing for their ninth year because of COVID and a medical hardship and God knows what other reasons. I think we're down to...

just most guys playing five you still got the elite players are gone some of them can stay now it gets interesting you know like now it's all of a sudden am I going to be a lottery pick or not because if not I could make a couple million coming back or transferring to this other school so it's gotten a little a little crazy I think I'm much more bothered by the transfer rule than I am the money.

I had watched a lot of games before going in. I thought it was Auburn early. Then they kind of slid. I haven't seen Duke much, but like kind of the consensus and people I talk to, most people feel it's Duke's to lose. Like if Duke plays that, that they're, they're good enough to win the whole thing. Florida has really come on. Everybody's talking about them right now.

I'm not thrilled with the money. I think it's totally changed the college game. You know, we could have had it more. The problem was they voted this in without any rules, anything whatsoever, no guidelines, no nothing. And now they're trying to go backwards. And I don't know if they're ever going to be able to get some semblance of order.

But the biggest problem is being able to go and play right away. That's a joke. That's a joke. The old rule was a good rule. You wanna transfer? Fine, sit out, sit out a year. Even in conferences, I'm amazed, Ryan, I think last, we were on it, we talked about it last year. I can't tell you how many coaches have told me, you know, they shake hands. It's like a hockey line now after a game.

We never did that. You know, both teams line up and everybody shakes hands after a game. They're saying by the time the kids get to the assistant coaches at the end, the assistant coaches are going, yo, if it doesn't work out, give us a call. Like, you know, we'd love to talk to you in the line, in the line, shaking hands after the game. with other schools from their conference.

Are you kidding me? It's a joke. I mean, that's why you had the rule. You couldn't transfer in conferences in the old days. So it's insanity. You can't go somewhere and play instantly, you know, multiple times. Now, hopefully they're going to address that. The other thing, and you talked about it, for a mid-major, small major, whatever the hell, it doesn't matter.

It can be one of the lesser schools in a power conference. If you recruited a guy who's a hell of a lot better than everybody thought he was, or just one of your guys just improved, him, his family, his agent, because most of them have agents now, are going to say, hey, you're crazy. You can make twice as much if you go to A, B, or C. And they're already talking to those other schools.

So it's like, unless you're at one of the best schools with the most NIL money, and you're really cooking, like you got a chance to win a national championship or You can say to the kid, you're going to get shots. The NBA is going to love you. There's, there's no control. You can't keep a guy. The worst thing that happens is somebody blossoms because he's going out to find out what's available.

Is that something we've been tested again? I was always pro Big East. I always felt we'd debate with good friends like, you know, Mike was down in Mike and V were in the ACC. ACC guys were regularly one of them would always be saying they did beat in the semis or the quarterfinals of the ACC tournament. They'd say, hey. It's not the worst thing. We know who we are.

Danny Hurley, my old buddy, had them on the ropes. I actually thought UConn was going to get them. They played so well, but I'm anxious to see Todd. I've known Todd for a long time. He was at Columbia. He was assistant at USF, Todd Golden. But I'll tell you what, we were with Maryland for four days here in Seattle. Maryland's very, very good. They're very solid. They play both ends of the floor.

It gives our guys a couple days rest. I don't want to beat them up for two more games to play on Sunday and then have to go to the tournament. I always felt the Big East tournament was the best preparation we could possibly have. I thought it was like starting the NCAA a week early. I said, this is great. Play two, play three NCAA games. You're playing in the garden. It's on CBS in those days.

I mean, it was like I said, this is NCAA. And I really felt that Playing in the big arena, like the Big East, even this year, you ready for this, right? There's only two Big East, there's 11 schools in the Big East now. There's only two play on campus, Butler at Hinkle Fieldhouse and Xavier at Centos. You know, Connecticut plays some games at Gampel.

Everybody else plays in NBA, NHL or municipal arenas. I really think there's a big plus to that. We got tested more by Southwest Missouri. Spoon was at Southwest Missouri. We were like sleepwalking and almost lost that damn game. At the time, I think when we beat UNLV and Indiana, it was the two worst losses for those two teams in the NCAA. They had never gotten beat like that.

We were just cooking. We were down 18 to Duke in the first half and came back. Robert Brickey got hurt. It was a big factor in the game. Brickey got hurt on a baseline drive, got a Charlie horse and never came back in. And that really hurt Duke. I thought we were fine. I mean, we were ready to go. I thought we had been tested.

I think that game is going to help Florida immensely because it was a team not from their league. I'm sure that I didn't, I haven't looked at, I'm sure they had five games this year in the, in the sec where they were like, you know, one possession games are damn close to it at the end. But they're tested. There's no question. I think that's the big advantage.

All 16, you could say Duke to a slightly lesser extent, but that's splitting hairs. I mean, yeah, the ACC is down, but the ACC is still pretty good. You don't want to make a living playing all those guys in the ACC if you're any other conference but the top four. So these teams are all tested.

But I do think somewhere in the tournament, there's got to be one of those nights your best player gets in foul trouble, rolls an ankle, Whatever the hell, you just have a shooting night. St. John's has shooting nights like that all the time. But usually they could overcome it with their offensive rebounding or turnovers. They couldn't do that against Arkansas. I'm a real strong believer in that.

And I do think the teams that have survived one of those, it really helps. So I think it's a big factor for Florida. I don't think it's going to help them against Maryland. I think they better lace it up and be ready to play because Maryland's legit. And those two kids, Queen and Juju are unbelievable. I'm talking about Juju. How about what happens to USC on the women's side?

I mean, that's one of the things that it happens more in the NBA every year. Some key player on a good team goes down and everybody forgets. that the team that wins the whole thing in June was one of the luckiest or the luckiest team relative to injuries. USC goes for what? Odds on to win the whole thing? I know they're still good, but come on.

Their best player, one of the best players, if not the best player, is out.

I mean, I met him when I was a young assistant in Fordham. We played them all the time. This is way before the only league in the East at that point was the Ivy League. We played them all the time. We played them when I was at Wagner. Until we got good, he stopped playing us. But when they were, like, drilling us, you know, we'd come to the Lapchick tournament.

I don't know if they're underrated, defensively, they're a really good defensive team. Everybody keeps saying they only have five starters. Their bench is not very good, but their five starters are damn good. I like them a lot. I just have kind of a feeling that one of the old horses is going to make some noise, either Izzo or Kelvin Sampson.

And we upset a really good CM Newton Alabama team in the first round of the Lapchick tournament at St. John's. Wacko, Gary Williams, is an American. If he's playing St. John's anywhere else in the world, he wins it. The finals should have been American Wagner in a lap jig tournament on TV. They would have, like, died. But St. John's had some homing pigeons there, and they were able to get through.

And then they beat us by, like, 90 in the finals. And the stuff that Louis said to officials during a game, was mind boggling, you know, and you'd say something while you'd stand up and you wouldn't even, you just say something and they go, that's enough. I'm going, that's enough. Do you hear what he's saying to you the whole game? And he goes, that's Louie.

He's like running all over the place, doing his stuff. I'll tell you two things. He had an expression, leave the chandeliers. We had a lot of young coaches in the league. And, you know, we were always looking for the best ball deal and, oh, let's do this or whatever. And Louie and Joe Mullaney were the old voices of reason. And Louie's thing was always leave the chandeliers. Like, come on.

You can't have everything. Like, just... He'd use that expression all the time, particularly to the young, overly aggressive coaches that were trying to grab every dollar we could, ball deals and everything else. And Louie was, come on, just easy. But two things, we're playing them in Nassau Coliseum, Wagner St. John's. One game short of going to the NCAA. V had just beaten Raph.

How's that for a foursome? Iona had just beaten Seton Hall. V's in the finals. It's us and St. John's. We lead the whole game. And there's a tough call at the end. Reggie Carter ball fakes. The ball goes out of his hand. And he goes up and gets it. And it becomes a jump ball. And I'm yelling, you can't do that. Anyhow. The ball, our kid controls the tap, taps it to half court.

It's a Nassau Coliseum. Running player catches it and shoots a hook shot. If it was in a college gym, it would have hit the ceiling. It was like 80 feet in the air, but it's Nassau Coliseum. Doesn't hit a thing right through to send the game to overtime. Louie thinks the game's over. Runs down, jumps on me like Don Nelson, Yogi Berra. I've got Louie in my arms holding him. He thinks they won.

And he's like saying, good game. That's his way to say good game. And Brian Mahoney and Ronnie Rutledge, his assistants, are grabbing him going, Louie, coach, we got overtime. The game's not over. It was unbelievable. He was absolutely the best. And the last thing. He was a good loser. We had really good guys in our league. He and John Thompson were exactly the same.

When you beat him, they'd come down and shake your hand. The game was over. They'd say, we got outplayed. That was the end of it. It wasn't the refs. It wasn't, you know, anything else. It was congratulations, great job. When we were, you know... We had other guys that were great winners, and when they were good and we were terrible, they always had nice things to say.

When we finally got good and won some games, that was the end of the nice things. Louie and John were the same when they won and when they lost. He was the best. He made you feel good about being a basketball coach, Lou Carneseca. He really did. Like I said, I'm doing what Lou Carneseca does. That's a good thing.

I'm just probably pulling because they're closer to me in age than anybody else. But hopefully one of those two guys, Michigan State or Houston, will do some damage.

So many of his players were there. Last thing I just thought of, it was a great line. We had the weekly writer's lunch at a Mama Leone's in New York every Tuesday. There's so many coaches in the New York area. So it was a big press meeting with all the writers, radio, TV. In those days, we had newspapers. We're all there at Mama Leone's. Raph announces his retirement October 14th.

We all started practice the 15th. He knew he was going to broadcasting. Dave Gavitt said, Raph, you're going to kill it in broadcasting. Of course, as always, Gavitt was right. But Raph waited until the 14th so his assistant, Hadi Mahan, would get the job. So Seton Hall had nothing but to do. Hadi was his top guy and deserved the job. And Raph wanted to make sure. So October 14th, he announces it.

The first Mama Leone's lunch in that year, everybody said, you know, Bill was with us for whatever, 15 years. Great guy. We're going to miss him. If anybody would like, you know, want to say something about Billy, you know, would be appreciated. Louie was always either first or last. I think he was last that day. He got up, stood up, walked over and he goes, Raftery.

addition by subtraction and sat down. That's what he called Raff resigning. And how did he get in the job? He called it addition by subtraction and he sat down. It was like phenomenal, but it was, you know, perfectly. And again, Raff laughed more than anybody else, you know, but I mean, it was just three words, three words about Raff retiring addition by subtraction.

Oh, God.

The first one, Maryland-Florida, which is going to be a bloodbath. And then probably 720, 730 for Texas Tech and Arkansas. The Sweet 16 is aptly named. These games are the best games. I mean, people are, you talked about the intensity. Players are dying to get to that Elite Eight because then you're one away from getting to San Antonio. So really looking forward.

I think we've got great games, all four regions.

All right, Ryan, great being with you.

He's a machine. It doesn't matter now. They change conferences. Everybody goes, oh, how are they going to adjust to the Big 12? They've owned it since they went into the Big 12. He loses guys. It doesn't matter. He's an exceptional coach. He drives his – he's got a great rapport with his players. I don't want to say they allow him, but, I mean, he is tough. He's on them.

If you go to their practices, their shoot arounds, there's no middle ground. Like if they don't do what he wants, he's very direct. He tells them, but they, you know, they love him too. His son is excellent, which really helps an awful lot. He's always had a good staff. He's losing Qantas this year. They defend and they rebound. St. John's was very much like them, right? I knew St.

John's had to dodge a bullet somewhere. They shoot the ball so poorly. And I thought if they got a bad whistle somewhere along, a tight whistle, I shouldn't say a bad whistle. I thought if they got a tight whistle somewhere along the way, that was the game they were going to have to find a way. There always seems to be one if you're,

good enough to get to the final four, you know, and play five or six games. You got to dodge a bullet somewhere. And that was St. John's bullet against Arkansas. And they couldn't do it, but they're very, very similar. They turn you over. Their best offense is points off turnovers and offensive rebounds. Kelvin's got an expression.

He talks about six hands, you know, those three guys up climbing on the glass with their each of them with two hands up in the air. They're not a good, they're a great rebounding team, especially offensively. So they generate points. They guard the hell out of you. He always has very, very good athleticism overall.

He's got length, may not necessarily have seven footers, but he's got length and he's got jumping ability and they're strong. They get after you. He's played small guards. That hasn't made any difference. We were in, I think it was the South region. I was in Dallas last year. with Raph and those guys, and Ryan Radke and I were there. I thought they were coming out of that, and then Shed got hurt.

And that kept them – I thought that kept them last year. He was their best player. Kept them from going to the Final Four. I remember him in Indianapolis. I mean, it just seems every year we have Kelvin in the round of 16 and often enough in the Final Four. But he's an exceptional coach. I mean, you know, he's very good technically. But, you know, most guys are. It's what you get your guys to do.

Those guys just play for him. And they play at home. They play on the road. They can play, you know, smart teams that slow the game down. They can play teams that go up and down quick. It doesn't seem to matter. He's really, really good at adjusting. I mean, it's almost like a season starts and you put down 30 wins for Houston and they're going to be in a sweet 16.

Good to be with you, brother. This is, uh, you know, we, we both did time at ESPN. This is the nicest thing they do for me. They let me go for three weeks to do the, uh, the tournament every year for Westwood one. And it gives me my college fix. I love it. Uh, I had been doing PAC 12 tournament.

Let's see what happens after that.

Tough one.

Let's see it.

For sure. I'll do a disclaimer first. I know the SEC the least of all. I just see them the least of all. Having been back in the Big East and watching, I'm telling you, Rye, if doing games, the few games I did this year around the country, if the referees from these other leagues refereed any of the games in the Big East Conference, they would think they're in a different planet.

Guys are tackling guys differently. They're unfazed. They just play that way. It's so physical. The Big Ten, to a slightly lesser degree, incredibly physical. I don't think the SEC is like that. What the SEC is, they're bigger and stronger and quicker. It's not NBA, but it's like, well, there are some matchups. You just look when the teams are on the floor, you go, these guys can't play with them.

These guys have just bigger, stronger, quicker athletes. And I always thought that was kind of a trait of the SEC. I always thought their teams were very athletic, but I didn't know if they were as tough. Like we always felt we could beat them. We always felt that playing in the Big East all year and playing physically, you talked about Houston.

It seems like for six, eight, 10 years, I don't even know, but obviously this year they put me back into big East, which was kind of, kind of fun being back in the garden. I hadn't been at the big East tournament in a long time, but, uh, I lucked out. We got Seattle the first round, so it was a home game. Now we got San Francisco, the West Region before, and San Antonio.

When you used to play John's teams at Georgetown, John Thompson's teams at Georgetown, the absolute first thing was if you didn't lace it up and you didn't match their intensity, Forget everything else. You weren't even in the game. Now, once you did that, it was going to be a hell of a game, but you had to be ready to go at them.

I still think that's a trait of the Big East to a lesser degree than it was. Big Ten, for sure. Big Ten is physical. It's a more physical brand. The SEC this year has been incredible. Everybody's telling me these teams are awesome. Are that good? They're as good as advertised. It's shocking to have 14 teams out of a 16 team league in the NCAA. 14 out of 16 is an incredible number.

But, you know, everybody's got that. They're not sleeping out. People are talking about it now. I'm sure you and I'll get into it. there's six, 16 teams, four from the big 10 and four from the big 12. So you've got three conferences at 15 of the teams. Uh, and, and, you know, Duke's the only team from the ACC, the big East has nobody.

And there's no, uh, you know, Cinderella or even close to a Cinderella, uh, coming in Colorado state was the, was the last one left that, you know, people would say is it was, it was a Cinderella. Um, uh, I do think there's a difference from league to league. I don't know the SEC well enough to typecast what they are right now.

But one thing they are for sure is longer and more athletic than the other leagues. And it's going to be interesting to see whether that plays out now in the tournament.

The meetings were interesting. There was no right answer or wrong answer. We liked it because you had a feeling if you were a good team, you had a feeling your guys were going to be on the floor. You know, they weren't going to get into your bench. Teams that weren't deep liked it, too.

the lesser teams in the league were, come on, like, why don't we just legislate that the better team wins the game before we even start? Like, you're making it impossible. You're making it impossible to win. So it always comes down to, you can talk about basketball philosophy. All it really came down to, what was the best thing for my team in a given year? And that's how guys would vote.

The guys that were down the bottom, and there was certainly a time when we were at the bottom, we'd go, come on, we can't compete now. You're going to let Patrick Ewing and these guys stay in the game? longer than they normally would. Come on, it's not fair. And the other guys were saying, come on, the people are coming. They want to see the good players. Let's keep them on the floor.

Some people were concerned that it was going to, excuse me, hurt us when you got to the tournament. But the tournament's always about adjusting. I mean, you can just get You can get a crew, and your team better be – again, this is going back to the old days. When you had a veteran team with juniors and seniors in a group that had been together and had seen a lot of situations, they could adjust.

Like, you could get to that first time out or the second time out and go, whoa, guys, they're calling everything. We got to be careful. Like, we still got to play defense, but we have to adjust to the way this game is being called. I don't see that as much anymore because you got – You know, kids are just, they're new to college. They really are.

There's enough places I've been fired.

And so many teams, I mean, it's a joke now when I get ready to do a game, like I have a separate column from where they were. It's at a point now where I don't even talk about what other school, I want to know where they were, but it's, The teams aren't as bound together as they were. The coaches got five new guys, three of his starters are transfers. He hasn't had them.

When you compare that to teams in the past where you had a lineup for three or four years, like, you know, Marquette was like that this year. I actually thought it was going to be a big factor for them. and it did not play out.

But I think when you have a group that's been together for a while, and obviously they've got to be good on top of that, they handle the different situations you're going to come across in a tournament so much better.

The NCAA tournament is very much more like the playoffs in the NBA than the regular season. The thing about the NBA that they're able to do so much better is the consistency. I don't even know the number now I should. There's 70 or 80 top officials in the league. It's really, really closely monitored. I mean, every call they make is screwed. Not too much, to be honest with you.