Pete Ferrell
Appearances
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Good morning. I'm Pete Farrell. I live south of Beaumont, Kansas in the Flint Hills. I'm a fourth generation rancher. I'm fortunate to have a wind farm here. We've been discussing pros and cons of the development of wind farms on agricultural properties.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And that was kind of, well, it was a breakthrough. It's like, here's a guy just like me that has the benefit of getting a check, an extra check for something that's already there. And he's saying, there is no problem running our cattle and grass here as we always have. And so I came home. I did some more homework. And I signed a 35 year agreement. In 95, I signed a 35 year agreement.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
In 98, they walked away. And I went, whoa, wait a minute. I thought this was a pretty good idea. And Dr. Johnson then was kind of out of a job. Fortunately, We retained the data that had been collected, and we retained the anemometers. Nobody's going to build a wind farm without knowing exactly what the resource is. So we had a three-year data stream, and we just kept collecting data.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And I went shopping for another developer, and I had five or six on my desk, and then – sometime in 2001, the first wind farm was built in Western Kansas at Spearville. And I decided I'm going to go tour this thing. And I'm literally on a school bus with a bunch of people that are, and here's this green horn behind me.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
He's all dressed in a suit and, uh, say, well, I've got this ranch in Eastern Kansas and I've got, I got a five year data, six year data collection. And he perks up. He goes, well, I'm a wind farm developer. Uh, And I eventually do business with this guy. He, he is now an extremely successful. In fact, this was his, his flagship thing.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
I had, I had five operas on my desk from corporations, but I decided to do business with Sandy Reiske because he had real, he was a person. He wasn't a corporation. And, uh, uh, Anyway, it's a great story. Four years later, the wind farm was built on this ranch due to his work. And boy, Tanner, it's been it's been so well going back to this succession issue.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
It's been very helpful for me to have this other form of income to support me. Because then I don't need the ranch income as much. I still collect rent. But it's allowed me a lot of financial freedom. It's just the truth of the matter.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Yeah, it was completed in the fall of 2005. So what is that, 18, 19 years it's been going? Yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Uh, that was a 30 year agreement. So that will expire in 35.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Oh yeah. Yeah. We're still, we're 20, 19 years into that 30 year agreement. And that's what, you know, I mean, we get, no, these, these machines are really expensive. Um, This was a $190 million project they put on the feral ranch, and they need time to recover that investment. That was explained to me. Why do I have to commit so much time?
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
I'm warm and vertical, Tanner. That's always a good way to start the day. Yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well, think about the investments that we make in farming and ranching and our equipment. We want to know. the longevity of that when we get the payout and we, we do the math on that. And so this was an example of that, of that investment. So,
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well, Yeah, you've got a lot in there. Let's unpack that. First of all, Sandy, who developed the company, literally sold it to a developer who could build it because he didn't have the multimillion-dollar balance sheet. So he sells it, and he told me he was going to do this, by the way. He said, look, I'm a primary development here. He revealed his financial status to me.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
He says, I will sell this to somebody who has – literally a billion dollar balance sheet who can build it. And sure enough, one company built it and within a year it was sold to another company. That's why if I have one thing to say with your listeners is that, boy, you really need to do your homework on the agreement. And if I were doing it,
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
I wouldn't do what I did, which is I would sign with somebody who had a well-known reputation so that probably they will hang on to it. I would probably sign with a pretty big company, and boy, I would do exactly what I did. Go talk to a landowner who is doing business with them because they'll tell you the truth. They'll tell you what's really going on.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Ferrell. F-E-R-R-E-L-L.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well – From me or from them?
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
No offense to your listeners, but I'm not a very mechanically minded person. I mean, if it doesn't bleed, I don't get along with it. And so that's just my take on the world. And because of those deep roots I described earlier, it seemed, it was just really uncomfortable. Well, okay, let me back up even further.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Our family has a very unsatisfactory history with extraction of oil, which is almost completely gone on this ranch. And quite frankly, there had been an extraordinary amount of abuse from the oil companies once they leased, you know, the spillage, the damage, the rutting. So I had a bad taste in my mouth from that experience. And my family benefited.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Dad told me, he said he wasn't sure they would have gotten through the drought of the 50s had they not had the oil income. So I, okay, you... You made your point that this other form of income is helpful because, my God, we all face drought and bad markets and whatever. we're gambling every day in agriculture, in my opinion, no need to go to Vegas.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
So anyway, I knew the benefits, but I also had this really bad taste in my mouth. And so I guess going to California and seeing how clean and well kept it was, was another thing that helped me move toward yes, because I was thinking, I was thinking, oh, we're just going to have more trash, more surface damage to the ranch, which was not true, which was absolutely.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
We live 50 miles east of Wichita in the Flint Hills of Kansas, which is renowned as being the tall grass prairie, the last stand of the great tall grass prairie. Used to extend up into your area, you know, decades ago. But anyway, the only reason this place wasn't plowed is it's too rocky. Right.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
In fact, I would say that wind farmers in general, they actually have to perform to a higher standard than other forms of energy extraction. And they do. I mean, I would give them this company that now owns this wind farm, I'd give them a gold star on their willingness to keep things clean, keep the gates shut. They tell us when we've got animals on the road.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
We tell them when we see a problem with a turban. So it's been a good neighbor relationship for us. Again, that's where you've just got to know that that's going to happen before you'll say yes, I would think, you know.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Yes. Um, Let's fast forward. After this wind farm was built in 2005, my phone rang off the hook, Tanner. People heard the story of this Yahoo cowboy that somehow got a wind farm built on his ranch. They want to know how I did it. And so I became a consultant, especially for farmers and ranchers who were being approached. And I would tell them my story.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
I told them what to watch out for, what I had learned at that point in time. And then eventually. Another gentleman approached me with a very different set of questions. And to make a long story short, I joined a development company in western Kansas that has developed a wind farm project there.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
But getting to your question, we had to assure the center pivot irrigators out there that we would not put a turbine in the middle of their circle. we always had to go to the corners where we would agree, you know, that's, we won't interfere at all. Now dry land was a little different.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
They can maneuver around, you know, there's no, there's no guy wires to negotiate or anything, but we had to, we had to really convince those folks that we were not going to interfere with their farming operation. Of course, it's well understood. Now there's plenty of wind farms out there that, We're not going to disrupt. We want to do minimal disruption of your agricultural operation.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
That is true. It's called a lease and easement agreement. So... The lease has to do with where the turbines intersect with the ground. I want to put in a little factoid here. You know, again, I was concerned about the influence of the wind farm on our agricultural operation. This was in the early years when in I mean, believe it or not, GPS is a relatively new thing.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And they had to compensate me for precisely the acres that I could no longer graze. And I made sure that, okay, I know I'm going to lose a little bit of land because of the turbines on the ground, the access roads, and then the management O&M building that they were going to build, the operations building. And so they went around and precisely measured what was lost after it was built.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And there are 50 turbines on the Farrell Ranch. And we lost exactly 50 acres. And that includes, again, the turbines, the roads, and the O&M site. And so while we were doing it, because I was...
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
because I was being questioned about this, I said, let's go up to the oil field and measure where the pump jacks are, the roads are, the spillage, the tank batteries, and let's just see how much land has been lost up there. And as it turns out, it was one acre per pump jack also.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
So my argument has been, you know, we're going to lose a little bit of ground, but the benefit, in my opinion, far outseeds what that is, what that loss is. So now I can't remember your question. Okay.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
They lease in order to put the hardware on the land. The easement has to do with the wind. It simply says... I cannot construct anything that's going to impair the wind flow that approaches those turbines. So I can't build any tall buildings. I can't put up any tree breaks. I can't do anything that would impair the wind, of course. I mean, I can't imagine what I would do out here.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
That's correct. I managed the ranch up until about – Well, it's been a phase-out process beginning in 2017. I started a management company 20 years ago that has leasing rights to this ranch. We have a five-year evergreen lease with the management company. And the management company owns everything you'd sell at a farm sale except the farm.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
This is a, you know, a vast treeless prairie. So the easement issue is almost a non-issue. But that's the easement portion of the lease. It's a lease and easement agreement.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well, you probably don't have coffee shops in your area like we do here where people get together and chat. You know, this thing got pretty controversial, and I'm deciding I'll keep a low profile here. But one day I go to the local saloon, and I just want to get my hamburger and eat and get out of there because I don't really want to answer any questions.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And one of my ornery neighbors, who actually is a good friend, but he wanted to put me on the spot, and he goes, hey, Pete. And of course, everybody looks up, you know, there's a dozen cowboys in there. I hear when you build that damn wind farm, there ain't going to be a breath of air in Beaumont because you're going to stop all the wind from blowing to Beaumont.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
You're going to have to buy all of us a clothes dryer because we ain't going to be able to dry our clothes up there. And so, you know, that's the kind of thing that I encountered. And, of course, unfortunately, some of those folks may have believed him. You know, they might have thought, well, wait a minute, is Pete going to stop the wave? Sure.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
You know, and so that's how those kind of things get going. And now that it's done, a lot of the people that were concerned about it are kind of like slapping their foreheads and saying, well, what was all the fuss? You know, you're right, you know. Cause it has, it has not.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well, the Kansas legislature gave property tax abatement back in the 70s that they were envisioning that renewable energy would happen here. So the wind farms don't pay property tax anymore. Now, they do pay something known as a pilot, let's see, payment in lieu of taxes as part of their agreement when they get a county permit, because they know they are going to have to provide, you know, fire.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
They're going to have to provide EMS services. They're going to have to. In fact, the roads may need extra maintenance. And so most developers voluntarily pay extra into the county coffers because of the extra cost to the county of the wind farm. That's what happened here, and that's what happened throughout Kansas.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Now, I don't know if they abated the property tax in Iowa, but by the way, they do pay. They don't pay for the machines. They don't pay property tax on the machines, but the ranch… Where the wind farm exists did change from agricultural to commercial property, and they do pay tax there.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
So there is some tax money going to the county, but they upped the ante big there because, well, they wanted the county's support, and they got it.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
So all the livestock, all the equipment, consumables, some cash. And this young man who's quite amazing, in my opinion, John Wagner, took an interest in this. And so he is now buying that management company. And so he would be the first non-family member to manage the ranch since its inception in 1888 by Wagner.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Great question. I'm actually not going to talk about my lease because we were so early in the game, nothing was standardized at that point in time. So I've got kind of a one-off agreement that's a unicorn. But when I started working in western Kansas, there was a standardization process, and I should have written it down, Tanner, but the first thing that will happen is there will be typically –
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
three levels of payment, and it'll be the greater of. So when a developer approaches a farmer or rancher, he has no idea where those turbines are going to go. So the first thing you'll probably be offered is if you sign up, you'll get X amount per acre no matter what, okay? Then the next thing will be there will be a – A nameplate turbine size that may or may not come on your land.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And in my case, it's a 1.5. They're going to offer a base rate regardless of what that turbine generates based on that nameplate size. And then the top level will be, okay, just like with oil, it's going to be production times price. So you'll be offered a royalty.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And all those three, those three levels of payment will be baked in, and it will typically say you get the greater of these in your lease payment. So that's kind of, I've described the general, and this is from what I've seen both consulting other farmers and ranchers. This is what we offered in Western Kansas in the project I worked on out there. was three levels and you get the greater up.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Great question. And, you know, I was talking about this incredible investment. I knew going in that this developer who leases the Farrell Ranch, I knew that the turbines had a 20 year lifespan. It had a 20 year warranty, literally. And so that's coming up. And I also knew that their power purchase agreement was going to expire in 20 years.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
The great thing about wind and the reason that the developers, the utilities like it is there is no question about the price. There is a question about how many kilowatt hours are going to come in, but they love knowing a fixed price. Imagine this, if we can get a fixed price for 20 years, well, utilities really like wind power for that reason. So all of that is coming to an end.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And to answer your question, I've already been approached about extending this agreement because in order for them to go on, they've either got to keep these machines going. And Tanner, I'm going to back up just a moment. Do you remember I said that that first company walked away in 98? Well, one of the reasons they walked away was the inefficiency of the machines at that time.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
My great-grandfather founded the place, and I'm the fourth generation of the family to run it. But now John Wagner is running it through this arrangement, and it's so far working out quite well.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And the efficiency of the machines keeps getting better, just like everything in our world having to do with electronics. I mean, think about what you're doing with your GPS-controlled tractors now that you couldn't do 20 years ago. Well, that evolution of electronics has occurred in turbine technology. And so each generation of turbine is getting more and more efficient.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
You know, wheat farmers in Kansas... They want to extract from horizontal acres. A wind farmer is interested in vertical acres. And so the bigger the wingspan, the propeller span that they have, the more energy they can collect. And so...
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
To get around to answering the question here, I've already been approached about extending this lease because it seems to me, well, I know they are considering going to the next generation of turbines on the Farrell Ranch.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And that that is in place with our agreement. Furthermore, the county required the developer of the feral ranch here. It's called the Elk River Wind Farm. The county required them to post a decommissioning bond in case they would go bankrupt or whatever. The county didn't want to have to deal with all this machinery. And so there's a bond in place.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
But I'm told the salvage value of the steel and the materials would easily pay for the salvage of the turbines if they were to come down. May I ask why you're not going to put in a new wind lease on that land?
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Okay. Well, it's just curious. They've had that, that, uh, royalty income for all these years. Um, I'd like to keep – I'm going to negotiate with our developer to extend it, but I'm kind of back in the mix again of having to think this through because, well, I'm considering an agreement that's going to outlive me, quite frankly. And I'm consulting my successors.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
My two children will inherit – well, I always tell them what my father told me, we don't own this place. We're just the caretakers here for a while. So they are actually going to be trustees rather than owners, but they'll get the economic benefit of the ranch and they love it as their ancestral home. But, um, they chose not, not to go into ranching. So, but anyway, uh, I want to keep it going.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Furthermore, as I shared with you, um, I've still got a significant debt to pay. Um, and you know, I, uh, I needed to find another form of income. I mean, that was one of the pressures on me was like, can I keep up the 15-hour days that I was working? And so I was highly incented to find another form of income here because I knew I couldn't keep that up, Tanner.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
That's correct. My great grandfather, he was he was orphaned during the Civil War and was one of those kind of rags to riches story stories. He learned Morse code. He was the first telegraph operator in Council Grove. He was the first telegraph operator in Wichita, Kansas. He was kind of a founding father over there.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
I knew I couldn't keep working like that. And so when the wind farm came, I let go of all the extra leased ground because I didn't need to work that hard. I didn't want to work that hard. And so it just came back to the core of the ranch. And so between my livestock operation and the wind farm, man, I could sleep at night.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Um, we've not discovered that. Um, Regarding the access roads, it actually – and I didn't see this one coming, Tanner. We actually rut – imagine, I mean, one of the things we don't want to do is rut our pastures when we go out to feed. We've got livestock everywhere. And so imagine, I mean, we can now get to more areas of the ranch –
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
without rutting the pastures so we can go out there on the service road, get to the livestock, feed them, get back on the service road. And so it's been a net plus for us, you know, in ranching at least. I know that wouldn't be a positive in farming, but for us, that was a big deal. The other thing we do here also is that this is a burn culture.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
The native, the tallgrass prairie is typically burned, you know, every two to three years. And so, you know, we do tell them if we're going to burn it because there's an area around the turbines of about, you know, probably 20, maybe 20, 30 foot radius where they got clean gravel and it can't burn right up to the base of the turbine.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
It's not an issue, but we also have wildfires occasionally that are not intentional. And of course, everybody has to scramble when that happens. But there's been basically no impairment. Well, let me back up. Certainly during construction, it was pretty chaotic. So I don't want to lie about that. It's unbelievable to me. They built this wind farm in six months flat.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
They broke ground in May and they were done by the end of November. But during that time, I mean, this ranch employs... two people, maybe two and a half full-time equivalents. And so we're out here pretty much alone. But during that time, we had 200 workmen on the ranch every day. They, um, And it was it was a challenge to work around all of that during construction.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
But then once construction was over again, we go back to their employees, our employees. It was a good mix. But so that was probably the greatest inconvenience we had. We use stock dogs a lot, and I didn't know this, but John Wagner uses stock dogs way more than I did.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And he notices that when they're in the turban area, the dogs may get a little confused because they're probably hearing a high-pitched whine that we can't. He says they're not quite as responsive. So there's that. But in terms of livestock behavior around the turbines, we don't see anything. They don't seem to be disturbed whatsoever by the presence of the turbines.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
But he had an amazing story where he just kind of figured out, you know, he figured out how to fix watches. He was selling apples. He was a merchant. And eventually he put his holdings into this ranch. He kind of seemed to consolidate everything he had into this place where I now live. My wife and I live in the house that he built 100 years ago. So we have... We have deep roots here, Tanner.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
The one thing, again, this is a treeless prairie. We do develop a cow sundial on the hot days because they'll line up in the shadow of the turbine and continue to follow that during the heat. So it's kind of humorous. There's a little pushing and shoving as they all try to get in the shadow of the turbine going out there. We've seen we've got several pictures of that. It's kind of funny.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
The only other thing that I've experienced is that you really don't want to take. a green Colt out there because as the shadow of the blade comes around, uh, that horse is going to jump over the shadow, like a, uh, jumping rope each time it comes around. So we've got humorous stories about that kind of thing, you know, but it has not impaired our capacity to ranch whatsoever.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
It, it has, it has been, um, we just, you know, again, the, the, the service crews have been great to work with. Um, And, again, that goes back to kind of know who you're going to do business with. And, of course, you can't predict who they're going to sell to. And that's where I'm recommending go with a company that's probably going to stay with you from beginning to end if you can.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Find somebody who's got longevity in the business and has a good reputation.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well, that's a great question, Tanner, and that's the one that – I must say that I don't blame those who say, I just don't want to look at them. There is there, you know, it really comes back to who owns the view shed of this country, you know, and I don't have an answer for that. I really don't. There are things that I would oppose if neighbors were trying to do next to me. So I,
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
I actually have empathy for those who question that, the view of them. I don't blame you. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The other thing Sandy did for me before we built it was he had me go out and take a 360-degree view, a picture of the ranch, and then he superimposed the turbines on the land before it was built. So I could literally see what it was going to look like.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And that also helped lower my stress factor. I'm like, okay, they look like large plants out there to me. And I actually asked him, instead of putting them in straight rows, would you weave them a little bit, make them follow the contour of the land, make them look like they're a little more natural here, even though they are huge machines.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
The red lights are an interesting thing, and that has come up in Kansas quite a bit. It is now, and this is interesting, it is now required that the red lights will be radar triggered. In other words, the only time we need those lights is when there's an aircraft within, I don't know, five miles or whatever it has to be. So all the new wind farms in Kansas are now, I believe, and again, I don't,
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
I think this is correct. The new ones have to be fitted with a radar triggered lights so that the lights only come on when there's aircraft in the area. And then the pre-existing wind farms like ours, the next time they have to replace the lights, they'll put in the radar triggering modem. So that's going to help with the light pollution, I hope. So I think that's a great idea personally.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And to say we love this place is an understatement. We care for it very deeply.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
That's a great question. And again, the developer, Sandy, when we signed up, he started measuring. They brought in a company, environmental company, West, I think was the name of it. Anyway, they started measuring all the wildlife that's out there. Three years prior to construction. And the canary in our coal mine is the greater prairie chicken. That's the bird.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well, that is kind of symbolic of the health of the tall grass prairie. It's a ground nesting bird. And so we measured the birds prior to construction and sure enough, and we knew this would happen during construction, they disappeared. There's just too much activity out there, but then they back, they gradually phased back in and they ended the study in 2011.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
So that would have been six years after building it because our per chicken population had recovered to pre-construction levels and And admittedly, thanks to John and my management, we do everything we can to mitigate the effects of the wind farm. And we did things intentionally with our ranch management to make sure the habitat for the prairie chicken was healthy.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
We don't burn as much as our neighbors, for example, in the spring especially. which is when they're nesting. So we did everything we could to make sure the birds stayed healthy. I was also advised by several ecologists to watch for those animals that depend on hearing for their safety. One of those animals is the jackrabbit. He's got to hear the coyote coming.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And does our jackrabbit population stay up and good? And it is. We have an abundance of deer. So we're looking to the wildlife here to tell us, do we have a healthy ecosystem? And the signals are good for us. So the wind farm, did it have an effect? Yes, everything has an effect. Yeah, it had an effect. I'm sure it did.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
But those keystone species that we're watching, specifically the greater prairie chicken and those jackrabbits, those populations have remained healthy. Oh, back to the bird kill. Yeah, they studied, let's see, for three years after the park was built, I would see the students out there with hard hats on, and they would do a spiral walk from the base out of the turbine.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
In three years of study, they never found one dead bird, not one. Now, we're not in a fly path here. We're not in a migratory path, but they finally quit looking after three years.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
We do. Our house is about a mile from the closest turbine, and the wind farm is to the west and south of us. So that's the prevailing wind. Some nights we will hear what sounds like either a river or a surf. And, you know, if you take a broomstick and swipe it through the air really fast, that's the sound we're hearing is the blades cutting through the air.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
We don't hear a mechanical sound, but we hear kind of a whooshing in the distance. Like I said, it resembles a river or the surf in the distance. And so we do hear that. We've had mechanical sounds. And of course, like if there's something wrong with a turbine, We call the manager and say, hey, number 23 is putting out a squeak. You need to get it oiled or whatever.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And they will typically handle any kind of abnormal mechanical sounds that are coming from the turbines. Now, when you're at the base of the turbine, yes, you do hear the rotor sound. You can hear that. You can hear a mechanical sound when you're at the base of the turbines.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well, I had a front row seat on a failed succession plan. The ranch was partitioned in 1968. I don't think my dad expected me to come home because the place had been diminished in size to the point that it was going to be hard to make a living here. But I fooled him. I came back and pitched in. And quite frankly, Tanner, those were some of the most –
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well, again, my mind, you know, I would want to know, is it going to impair? And that's my first question. That's why my hard no came out was like, I don't want to do anything that impairs my capacity to continue my agricultural enterprises here. I don't want that. And again, at the end of the day.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
It didn't impair it, except I did lose, like I said, one acre per turbine was lost off of this ranch. But then, of course, the economic impact back to me more than made up for that. You know, and I think that everybody has to have... Tanner, I don't blame the ranchers who say, no, I don't want this. That's entirely their prerogative to say, you know, I'm just not comfortable with this. I don't...
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
wanted or needed. I, you know, I just don't, I'm not very evangelical about this. I don't, I don't, I don't like, I don't push it on anybody. And I don't, there are a lot of people that don't want to see any more wind farms in the Flint Hills. And okay, that's fine. There's plenty of ground in Western Kansas where they want them. So let's do that.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
I did Tanner and I want to applaud you for the work you're doing to help, uh, enlighten your, your listeners to a possibility. And, um, you know, I wish you all well, this is, this, this is not easy work we do, but I create, I feel privileged to have the opportunity to work as I have.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Uh, I prefer an email, uh, uh, contact would be best from my point of view. And, uh, I'll be glad to recite my email or will you put that up or how do you, how do you manage that?
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Great. It's G P Farrell, my last name, F E R R E L L three, the number three at gmail.com. So it's gpferrell3 at gmail.com.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Happy to help. Thanks for having me.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
let's say carefree days of my life for five years, I got to live as a, as a cowboy with my, uh, my college roommate was here and we had, you know, beer and girlfriends and, uh, not a lot of money, but we weren't worried about it. But somewhere in there, my dad says to me, Hey, you want to buy it back? And, um,
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
without giving it any thought, and you should think about that, I said, yeah, sure, let's buy it back. And so then he went and died on me right when my first payment was due. And so I had to grow up. Overnight, I had to transition from being a carefree cowboy to a ranch manager. On the day he died, I'd never written a ranch check. And so I had a lot to learn about economics and finance.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And I crisis managed for a long time. I was literally in the wilderness. And I'm sure that many of your listeners will probably relate to this. It's like, all of a sudden, you're the one that's got a right to check. You've got to figure this out. So anyway, it was... It was an interesting education, if you will. And I have to always mention the many, many people that helped me, extension, bankers.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And I eventually – I know that the name of your program is Farm for Profit. The ranching for profit school taught by Stan Parsons was a watershed for me. And all of a sudden the light bulbs came on and I actually realized, you know, maybe I can do this, you know, but it was it was a struggle. I just you know, I it was it was not a struggle. not a good time for me.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And if you know the eighties, there was a, there was a big dairy buyout thing that happened under the, anyway, I just remember waking up and noticing that my balance sheet was half of what it used to be. And it was like, huh, that's what am I going to, how do I explain that?
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
You do. You know, farmers and ranchers, you know, there's no stress like the financial stress. But I was so grateful to finally kind of learn the rules, if you will, of how to negotiate debt and loan repayments and cash flow and balance sheets. And Stan taught me that through his school. Like I said, I will be forever grateful that I happened into that field. that place in my, in that time.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
That was in 87. I began that. And that's when we began what are called holistic practices. We do time controlled raising. The other figure in this is that there's a fellow by the name of Alan Savory that was Stan's partner for years. And they taught much the same curriculum. So it was a, it was a welcome insight for me.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well, yes. In fact, I met John Wagner as part of that program. And I think that's what developed the trust between us because he understood those very same concepts extremely well. And so that was kind of integral to me to handing the operation off to him. And to kind of answer your question, he took what I started and has developed it to the next level. Um, he's tech savvy.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
He, you know, he's got all these cool apps on his phone that, you know, I was doing it longhand. Well, now he's doing it digital and, uh, you know, he's a master stockman. Um, he, he's, he's taken it to the, a much more modern level, if you will, Tanner of understanding. And he's, he's using many of the same principles that, that I employed, um,
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
But his exercise of those is much better than I was able to employ, I would say.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
You know, Tanner, I think... You know, it's hard to let go. But at the same time, it's been exhilarating to see. You know, one of the things Stan did was he would bring information from the business world. Do you know, in most successful business, leadership turns over every seven to ten years. And we regard our tenure in ranching as lifetime. But
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
In all honesty, this ranch business, had I turned it over 10 years earlier, would be further down the road. I still have ownership of the ranch. I still have a financial benefit. Now, I wasn't ready to step aside at 50, but I woke up literally when I was 60, and the hand of time slapped me in the face and
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
And I knew, Tanner, that I wasn't going to the next level, that I knew I wasn't the guy that could get that done. And what I cared most about was the welfare of this ranch. And I just decided, you know, if I really want to perpetuate this, I got to let go. I got to find, I wanted to find somebody that was better than me. And I did. I did. I found somebody that could carry it on to the next level.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
Well – So dad and I bought or initiated the purchase in 76 of the first third that had been partitioned. And then lo and behold, in the late 90s, the second third became available to me. And I'd almost paid the first portion down. It was like, but then the other piece became available. And it was like, and that happened.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
So when it came up, I didn't hesitate. I said yes. And I expanded my ranching. I had already expanded the ranching operation. So instead of running the core 7,000, I was leasing a lot of additional land to create the cash flow to make my payments. But Tanner, my life was... Well, I know your listeners. In fact, you know, Connor is out there today.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
He's having to put in – you know, I was working unsustainable hours. I was running 3,000 cows a year. I had a crew. The life wasn't very pleasant for me because – I just was so, you know, driven to make my payments and I was doing it. Well, imagine what, you know, and Stan always said, think 10 times bigger. Think about all of your options. And so this is the segue into in 1970.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
I think it was 94, Tanner. A couple of guys come waltzing across the lawn. I thought they were feed salesmen. I was getting ready to run them off. And it turns out one of them was a retired – he had voluntarily retired from – he was an electrical engineer from Kansas State. And he had been studying the wind in Kansas for over 10 years at that point in time.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
He was developing wind maps that nobody else had. Nobody else was thinking about. And he knew more about the Farrell Ranch wind than I did. And he proposed this idea. And my first reaction was a pretty hard no. You know, it's like, no, that's just too far out there for me to understand. But he persisted. And it took me over a year. I did my homework and they flew me to California.
Farm4Profit Podcast
Wind Energy and Ranching: Perspective from a Farm Transition Story
That was the only place in the United States at the time that had wind farms on agricultural property. And I got to talk to ranchers in what they were east of San Francisco in the Altamont Pass. And they were pretty nonchalant about it. In fact, one of them said, what turbines? You know, we're still watching our grass and cattle here like we always have. There was like.