Patricia Sullivan
Appearances
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
I think he's a person about the future. And he and his brother work together. He grows from that experience. And your point about the trauma of the assassination, I mean, that impacts in all kinds of ways. But he's moving forward. And I think the assassination of his brother really taught him about life, just the fragile nature of life.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And it becomes more existential in his thinking and his approach. So I think it doesn't free him in a way that it's a positive thing, but it frees him.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
in einer Art und Weise, dass er viel mehr die tiefen Probleme befinden kann und seine Position verwendet, was er weiß, seine, ich sage nicht seine Macht, aber er hat die Fähigkeit, durch dieses Land in diesem Moment politisch zu gehen, das einzigartig ist.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Das Legacy, was sie versucht haben zu tun bei der Rasse und den Zivilrechten, aber auf einer größeren Ebene, weil das Land sich bewegt, die Dinge verändern.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Well, actually, he launches the campaign. Yeah, the first primary is Indiana. You know, every declares on March 16th, he does a two weeks visits, 16 states, just a barnstorming to get out there, get the energy, be present. And then Indiana, as you point out, he runs in the primary.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And in that state, that's really an important state because, you know, people look at him as someone who, you know, black voters are, komplett, fast komplett in diesem Camp. Aber Indiana hat neun, neun Prozent ihrer Bevölkerung ist afrikanisch-amerikanisch. Es ist ein Staat, das südlich Weiße hat, die in ethnisch emigriert sind, aber es ist ein weißer Staat.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Also gehen wir dazu, dass jemand gesagt hat, dass es ein Risiko ist, denn die ganze Kampagne ist ein Risiko. Aber das war eine Prüfung. Und selbst wenn Johnson, bei diesem Zeitpunkt ist Johnson raus, aber er hatte einen Lieblingssohn, den Gouverneur des Staates, Brannigan, als Lieblingssohn-Kandidat, als eine Art Platzhalter für Hubert Humphrey.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Und dann hatte er Gene McCarthy, der seit November 1967 in der Runde war. Also das war eine ganz große Linie. Und diese Kampagne, ich meine, er reist durch das Staat. Und er gewinnt. In der Mitte der Kampagne wird Martin Luther King verurteilt, in der Mitte von Indiana.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Er erhält diese Rede in Indianapolis. Er ist auf seiner Weg nach Indianapolis von der Kampagne da. Und er lernt, dass King vor dem Planen erschossen wurde. It was in the predominantly black neighborhood part of Indianapolis. John Lewis helped organize the event. And he arrives there at night, you know, late. He's on the back of a flatbed truck.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And the people, I mean, this is, for us to understand today, most of the people had not heard that King was assassinated. Because of the way we communicate news back then. Nobody had cell phones. They're waiting in this place. And so Robert Kennedy announces that to this crowd, v.a. Afroamerikaner, aber es gibt auch weiße Menschen. Es ist einfach ein Schock. Und dann... Die Geräusche, ja.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Die Geräusche, ich meine, wenn du dich an diesen Moment denkst, und dann spricht er einfach extemporan.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Was hat der König gemeint? wie er sich an Menschen ausdrückt, um die Glauben nicht zu verlieren.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Und eines der Dinge, die er in dieser Rede sagt, er sagt, ich verstehe, er wurde von einem weißen Mann gefilmt, und wenn schwarze Menschen angreifen wollen, sind es weiße Menschen, aber ich habe einen Familienmitglied, einen Familienmitglied, wie er sagte, der auch von einem weißen Menschen verabschiedet wurde. Und das ist die einzige Zeit im Publikum, in der das RFK seine Bruder verurteilt hat.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
John Lewis beschreibt diesen Moment und dass er einfach alle mit ihm hatte und einfach für das, was King repräsentierte, Non-Violence, Frieden, Hoffnung in dem Land und dass Black und White zusammenarbeiten, um unser Land voranzubringen. Und es ist einfach ein erstaunlicher Moment, zehn Minuten, der gedreht wird.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Und ich denke, Ihr Punkt, ich meine, ich denke, sein Gefühl von Tragödie, dass er seinen Bruder so verloren hat, hat ihn einfach in einer visuellen Weise verbunden, nicht in einer performanten Weise.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Und die Empathie, aber Ihr Punkt über die Empathie ist wahr.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Ja, besonders in dem früheren Zeitpunkt. Und es gibt eine ganze Geschichte dahinter. Ich meine, er würde nicht unterscheiden, dass das die falsche Sache war. Aber Hoover, ich meine, die Macht von J. Edgar Hoover und wie Bobby Kennedy darauf zurückgezogen wurde, mehr als jeder andere Attorney General. prior or after.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
But on this, they had evidence that King was talking to Stanley, all this backstory, and they were trying to get a civil rights bill forward. So, you know, and Hoover could, so it was navigating that, and okay, you know, you can have it, and he put a time limit on it, like three months, and that was up JFK war tot, als das geschehen ist. Aber er hat die Wiretap verabschiedet.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Und das ist anders als Hotelräume zu buggen. Die Leute sollten das verstehen. Das ist eine ganz andere Geschichte, in der die Kennedys nicht überhaupt involviert waren.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
But yeah, so there is that piece, but again, the power of the FBI and his relationship with King, though, that's one of the things I found really interesting when working on this book, how that evolved, because they weren't, you know, they didn't really see each other, they were kind of
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
From 65 forward, they are aligned in their concerns about the urban uprisings, in their concerns about poverty, in their concerns about the war in Vietnam.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And, you know, they really are simpatico and in ways that they both are sort of connected, you know, not talking, but in a way that is really powerful to see how that relationship moves across the decade and what they both come to share and represent.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
He testified in enthusiastic support of the war on poverty. But the war on poverty, as Martin Luther King said in 1966, was barely a skirmish. And they had hearings, a fascinating series of hearings that Ribicoff and Kennedy chaired. um die Poverty across the country and the need for a more robust and organized attack on poverty in communities.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And in that context, Robert Kennedy helps establish a Bedford-Stuyvesant project, which is community-engaged, community-run programs that deal with the particular issues that the community faces. Within that case it supported federal money and some private money. So, you know, by 66 certainly they saw that Johnson was not a war on poverty. I mean, important programs were enacted.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
But there were no jobs included in these programs ever. There was job training for jobs that weren't there by 67. And so that's an interesting piece of the history. And King testified before that committee and just said, it's famously that riots were the language of the unheard. That's in 1966.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Absolut. Aber ich denke, das Wichtigste bei King und Kennedy und den Menschen, die hier kommen, die Bürgerrechte, wie Bob Moses und andere, ist das aktive Engagement der Gemeinschaften durch Verteidigung, Organisierung, um die Art von Anforderungen zu machen, die Programme für ihre Bedürfnisse verantwortlich machen. Also ja, die Programme sind eine große Eröffnung.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Der föderale Regierung nimmt eine Verantwortung. Aber dann, was die Programme aussehen, wie sie Menschen servieren, wie viele Anforderungen sie erhalten, versus eine Krieg in Vietnam. Yeah, it's all in play. And you're so correct. It was really promising time and shows there's no substitute for that.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
You know, the government of the people and people responding to the government and helping it to respond to their needs in a constructive way.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
This is it. You know, I mean, after losing Oregon, the first race that Kennedy ever lost, you know, California is the bald name. And so that's that. And I think your point about McCarthy is important, that he was his vocal, he came out against the war in the end of 67 vocally and ran for president. No racial policy, no civil rights agenda, no anti-poverty agenda. So I think that's it.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Aber Kennedy brachte das nicht dazu. Und McCarthy war ein wichtiges Thema. Aber mit allem, was in diesem Land passiert ist, gab es andere Dinge, die nicht zu beachten waren. So, California is everything, yeah.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Well, he had, you know, after, I mean, Watts was such a turning point, because it was huge, and it really put this issue on the table of the cities and the people. Das ist ein lautes Wort. Aber seine, also die Antwort auf das, was auf der Seite war, ruft die Gesetzesordnung an. Das war, als das ein großer King went to Watts and really saw this as central. We have to deal with these urban issues.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Robert Kennedy was asked about Watts and this Law and Order theme. He said, how can you ask the Negro in Bed-Stuy in Harlem to obey the law when the law is always used against him? Black people have a different relationship to the law.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
So understanding that and using that platform, not to, okay, got to deal with what happened and restore, kind of order there, but you have to look at what's behind these things. And he really understood the issues of the criminal justice system, of police brutality as being a trigger for these things. Es gab wirklich eine Antwort auf die schrecklichen Bedingungen, die die Menschen leben.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
It's a tough political position if you're looking to win votes. But again, he had a faith in A, that you had to face this issue, that it was going to get, you know, it was just deep and it was a legacy of our past. And I think he had a faith in Americans to come along if they could see, you know, I mean, he's going into these cities, he sees the conditions. And just to help people see.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
and see this as an American problem for the country and a problem that white Americans needed to take the lead in solving in terms of supporting policies and the rest.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Empathy and comfort. These are people. He really, you know, I mean, he, he, you know, it just, what did Marian Wright Elman say? He went, he saw, he listened, he grew. He's been wandering all over the country for the past eight years. and going into cities, going into urban areas. And so there's tremendous empathy and sort of connectedness, I think.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
I mean, after the Watts Rebellion, he helped the Watts Writers Workshop was set up by Bud Schulman and other people. Kennedy contributed to that. I mean, he, you know, so there's a genuine sort of Und er gewinnt.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Yeah, so he's walking through this kitchen, shaking hands with people working in the kitchen and talking actually to a radio reporter about what's going to happen next. And Humphrey will be on the scene. And then boom. And the reporter says, oh my God, he's been shot. I mean, it happens just like that. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Das ist richtig. Ich meine, es war wirklich eine Weiterentwicklung von dem, was er gemacht hat und worum er sich interessiert, als Senator und vorher. Aber ich denke, dass die Zeit, in die er eingetreten ist, viel zu tun hat mit dem, was in Vietnam und in diesem Land passiert. Und die Natur von Präsident Johnsons Führung, oder fehlender Führung, wie man sagen würde.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
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American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
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American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Also es ist eine Konvergenz von Events, die ihn beobachten, endlich zu begehen. Aber er geht weiter, macht, was er gemacht hat, als Senator und als nationaler Führer.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
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American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Ja, ich meine, und als jemand, der... Es ist ein pivoter Punkt, wie du es erwähnt hast, die 60er sind eine pivote Dekade, ein pivoter Punkt in ihrer Geschichte. Und für all die Gewalt und Zerstörungen, ich meine, die Transformationen, die wirklich von dem Zivilrechtstum mit den Sit-Ins im Jahr 1960 erzeugt wurden,
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Präsident Kennedy's administration, I mean, tremendous energy and a tremendous sense of possibility. Breaking down segregation, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act. And at the same time, as you've indicated, cities are exploding, starting really in 64 with Harlem and then Watts is huge. It's a moment of trying to imagine a future building on the strengths of what's happened in the 1960s.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Und ich denke, Robert Kennedy, als jemand, der in dieser Dekade durchgewachsen ist und so viel Teil davon war, auch sein Platz im öffentlichen Leben, war es eine Art Angelegenheit, aber auch eine Möglichkeit, wirklich auf das zu bauen.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Und eine Art Vertrauen in die Fähigkeit von Amerika, voranzutreten und diese riesigen, tiefen Probleme zu überwachen und eine volle Demokratie und ein besserer Zukunft zu bauen.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Totally surprised, totally surprised. I mean, he enters the race on March 16th and he hesitates for a number of reasons. But I think one is, he didn't want to just run and bust up the Democratic Party and just create, you know, even political and understood, not in a personal way. But after the Tet Offensive, which, you know, it really demonstrates that America is not winning in Vietnam.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
So it really explodes the cover on that. And then the Kerner Commission report on the urban uprising said, basically put the blame on our country, on white Americans and on the failure of leadership. So those two things, it really pushed him in. And of course, after Ted Johnson was really weakened by that. So that's March 16th. And then on March 31st, Johnson pulls out of the race.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And again, for him, I think it's a combination of pressures. But I think Robert Kennedy, as they said, it was his worst nightmare, Robert Kennedy entering the presidential race. Er war ein Senator aus New York, er wurde 1964 gewählt, er hat seit 1965 gearbeitet, er ist nicht mal durch seinen ersten Termin.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Ich denke, was er immer gesagt hat, und ich denke, seine Aktionen zeigen das, ich denke, seine Ängste denken über 1972. Ich denke, er dachte, er würde einen Tag fahren. Aber 68, ich denke, er fuhr Tag für Tag. Und wie er einmal gesagt hat, wenn dein Bruder ist, You go day by day. And again, it was such a fractious time and uncertain time. And he's a senator, as you point out.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
He's holding hearings on poverty. He's going around the country doing field hearings. So I think he was looking towards later and not particularly 68. It wasn't possible to do it and do it effectively. Johnson was powerful. And his ratings were high until Vietnam really started to turn.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Good point. You know, because they had, he had a lot of the wind at his back. I mean, there was so much, again, the civil rights movement, the student movement, the anti-war movement. You know, and it was sort of a testing to see how this... Well, not when he just did it, but I think there was a feeling that there was tremendous energy in this country.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And he was also looking at the divisiveness and trying to help the country move beyond that. And again, this is the 60s. I think people had a different... Es ist...
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
That's right. That it's really with them. You know, I think, you know, what he came to see during this period is, you know, I mean, the South was front and center, segregation, the violent resistance. Die Schule, die Desegregation und der Rest. Aber dann startet die Stadt.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Wir haben sogar vorher gesehen, dass die tiefen Poverty und die Desegregation von Generationen in den nördlichen Städten auf der ganzen Welt, sodass unsere Geschichte, die Begegnung mit unserer Geschichte, vorderlich und zentral für ihn war. Und es hat sich im Süden, im Norden ausgeführt. Und die Unmöglichkeit der meisten weißen Amerikaner, das zu verstehen. Sie reagieren auf das, was passiert ist.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And so he and others like King and other people in our public life are really working to bring this to the attention of the country and white Americans. And yeah, and of course, you know, white students are active. So there's this opening towards doing that.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
But it's, as he says, said and knew was essential for the country to kind of confront this so we could move forward and really deal with these issues in a constructive way and
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
You know, I mean, his Justice Department that he built from the get-go, from the time they got in in 61, to really, you know, put the power of the Justice Department behind enforcing voting rights laws that were on the books. And so he's engaged in a very direct way. I mean, his Justice Department is extraordinary. And they connect up with Bob Moses and people in Mississippi.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And they see the limits of that. I mean, the power of these white southern officials from the state level to the local to just block everything. Und dann geht er nach Harlem, nach Ost-Harlem, in 1961. Er beginnt, die ursprünglichen Realitäten des Verbrechens zu befinden. Also wird er ausgewogen.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Aber dann, wie er in diesem Verständnis wächst und was er in seiner Fähigkeit als Staatsanwalt tun kann, ist wirklich eine wichtige Teil der Geschichte. Ich meine, ich denke, es gibt eine echte Evolution, dass die Leute denken, es gibt eine große Veränderung an einem Punkt, aber ich denke, es gibt eine Evolution und ein Wachstum, das wirklich wichtig ist, um ihn zu verstehen.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
It often is overlooked that these years were formative for Robert Kennedy, and we see him responding to the problems, the challenges in the South, because mass movements are taking place, and people are pushing for the vote and segregation, and he... He makes it a priority of the Justice Department. He quadruples the number of lawyers in the Civil Rights Division.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And they see what's the basic right to vote, how it is totally denied in all kinds of ways, terror, violence, lawlessness. So that's an opening for that. And then he begins to travel around. During the campaign they were traveling, he saw the poverty rate. in den Städten und die Segregation in den Städten. Und sie haben ihre Leben zerstört.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Und so hat er ein Programm gesetzt, um das durch mehrere Organisationen zu helfen. Also sieht er, und dann lernt er durch diese Programme. Und über Resistenz, über Rasse. Und bei den 63 sagt er, dass dieses Problem... is huge. And if you think it's going to be solved just by legislation, I mean, it is deep.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And so he just has that understanding through that experience as Attorney General and his brother's top advisor. You know, the violence around the desegregation of Ole Miss and all the rest. And is prepared as he moves on into the next part of his life to really begin to continue to face that and try to figure out how to bring the country to deal with it.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Komplett. Ich meine, sie, zuerst einmal, sie sind beide Studenten der Geschichte. Und, you know, when JFK gave his famous civil rights speech in 1963, which he and Bobby drafted minutes before he went on television, it was right after the show at the University of Alabama with George Wallace.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Es hat 100 Jahre gedauert, hat der Präsident gesagt, seit der Begründung der Begründung der Begründung der Begründung. Sie sind sehr vorsichtig darüber und der Begründung. Und so kommt das auf. Und so, und natürlich der Zivilrechts-Movement, frei von 63, Sie wissen, sie drücken das nach vorne, dass 100 Jahre seit der Begründung der Begründung.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Also es ist sehr, und es ist, ja, wie Sie sagen, es ist wirklich ironisch, ein Jahr später, das ist Bretton Center. I'll be back with more American History after this short break.