Nora Atkinson

There's a lot of work being done that's using AI either as the main focus of the work or at least as part of the production of the work.

And I think it's unfortunate right now that there are very few people who've made it into the public eye in that realm.

Right.

I hope that a lot more of those barriers get broken down.

I think in part there's also the sort of gloss of the new technology and people are using it the way it's supposed to be used.

But all of my favorite work typically is when people get to the point with the technology that they start to try to break it.

And that's what I'm really looking forward to seeing.

I think it is.

I think, you know, particularly with the Museum of Craft, which is what we are, craft was mostly defined by things that happened in the 20th century.

And so we've been trying to break down the barriers of what that even means.

But generally speaking, you know, you think differently through different media.

And so the more media you can include, the more disciplines you can include, the more sort of inclusive an exhibition becomes.

Right.

You bring in different audiences and I like to think about the idea that an exhibition largely can be about an idea more than it has to be about a specific discipline.

So what that reminds me of is this sort of idea of soul in art.

And I know that there was another TED Talk from a few years ago.

There was a composer who came and he was showing off that he had created an algorithm that made infinite symphonic music.

And it was a fascinating thing that you could create infinite symphonic music.

And there's certainly application for that in video games and whatnot where you want to go on forever.

But of course, it struck me that that music then, what is it essentially?

Is it music?

Because it isn't communicating anything.

And I think that's really at the soul of a lot of this.

How do you keep the soul in the work?

Right.

I find when I'm experimenting with any kind of AI tool that the first time it's really, really cool.

And after you've done it for a few sessions, you realize some of the same tropes come up again and again.

Right.

And that's where you start to become more adept at telling a story with it.

So I don't think there's any danger that artists are going to go away.

They're just going to transform.

For sure.

I like to remind people, for instance, that the Jacquard loom was part of the history of computing and all of these things are part of the same spectrum, so...

How does curiosity play a role in what you do?

That is why our jobs are fun.

Because my job as well as a curator is all about just running down whatever thing I'm super curious about because someone else will be curious about that.

And if it really gets you excited, and usually it's a risky proposition like quitting Burning Man in the Smithsonian.

If it really starts to hit that spot in the back of your brain that you're like, why can't I just do this?

Then you get the opportunity to lead that charge.

So interestingly, again, I'm a curator of craft in basically an art world, and there aren't very many of us, and craft is kind of a sidelight, and I think it gives us permission to do things that you couldn't necessarily do in the art world at large.

Right.

So Burning Man had been an aspect of art that had been pushed off to the sidelines, and I just started to draw the lines between what was going on in the craft world and what was going on out there and seeing the value in something that wasn't valued.

And that's, I think, the most fun that I have in my job is just trying to see something from a different perspective and then bring it full circle and bring other people along, which is probably very similar to what you have the opportunity to do.

I think there's one thing, though, that I find interesting as well, which is that we're in this moment when everything is about now and we're progressing so fast towards the future.

And then the sort of subversive act sometimes is that looking backwards, actually embracing lessons that we had from the past or amazing people.

One of my favorite exhibitions that I ever curated was a show called Murder is Her Hobby, Frances Glessner Lee and the Nutshell Studies of Unexplained Death.

She was a woman who was creating miniature dioramas that trained forensic investigators how to approach a scene of the crime in the 19th century breaking barriers.

So it's those opportunities as well to bring these sort of little known things from the past up

and have those conversations.

Do you have the opportunity to kind of blend old and new in those kinds of ways?

So it's a really interesting question because at this moment, I always think that the most interesting design and innovation comes from the constraints.

And at this moment, we feel very unconstrained.

AI is not maybe all the way there yet, but you can just do pretty much anything.

So how do you create the necessary constraint to make something really interesting and meaningful?

That consistency.

Yeah.

I mean, I've been very fortunate at Smithsonian to work with some really wonderful exhibit designers, but always it has to be something conceptualized in your head from start to finish and really crafted room by room to make sure that people enter into the feeling of the space as well as just appreciating the object.

I think it's important to have it in the museums.

And I'd like to see more of it, frankly, in museums, because the faster that we can bring some of those aspects into museums and allow all of the breadth of what's going on in that, the more we can document it, but also the more you really get a sense for what's possible.

Yeah, I think just by and large, there hasn't been enough AI art that has made it into the museum yet.

And I see a lot of the early ages of media art that was collected so much later in the game.

And it's still fascinating because it's the opportunity to see an evolution in progress.

Well, there's another aspect to that as well, which is that I don't think that we need to be afraid of technology.

And people who are doing it really well should be in a museum, and it should be sitting there right next to a marble sculpture or a crafted painting and whatnot, because you're seeing different types of true skill and value, and it actually lifts the value of those other things when you see them all in context.

Yeah.

A story is a story is a story.

And if it's a great object, it's going to survive that.

I wish for TED that we would be able to see many more of those handcrafted things next to some of these AI things.

Right.

Because I think it enriches both stories.

And I think it's that layering of information again, that now you're looking at this and the fact that it's seamless, the fact that you're sort of peering through these different lenses, you can sense it and you don't know where it happens, that makes it more magical.

So how much do you care whether people are coming to the films because they're romanced by the technology or that they're drawn to the story or...

What do you see as the limitations now?

It must transform acting.

You can really put people there.

I mean, that's what art is.

You're walking through.

You wouldn't put the piece in the museum if there wasn't some kind of an emotional human resonance to it.

So I think that's the glory of what a museum exhibition can be.

I really love trying to create sort of hidden connections between things in the exhibitions as well.

Because your brain lights up as you're looking at all of these things.

And you put this over here and all of a sudden it transforms what the piece is about.

So...

I think it's just probably very similar to film.

It's all about this sort of emotional storyline.

And one of the beauties, of course, of a museum similar to film is that you're bringing people through it typically all together.

There's a group of people who were walking through this and having this multiplicity in that room that are sharing that experience and the awe and the way one person will feel

point to something and it brings others into that experience.

And it's one of the biggest joys I have putting together exhibitions is watching people walk through them.

And something that touches this person might not be the same thing that touches someone else, but they bring each other along on that story.

Yeah.

And then that humanism is messy and people bring their own lives to it.

That's right.

There's a whole nother overlay that you never expected.

My favorite thing actually is always opening an exhibition because after weeks and weeks of, you know, well, you know, years putting together a show, weeks of installing it in the galleries, you're kind of sick of looking at all of it and it doesn't register any longer.

And then the first people walk in and you get the wonder on their faces.

Some of those mistakes end up being the kind of gems in the end product.

We're imperfect.

All right.

Well, thank you so much.

This has been so fun.