Nick Nisi
Appearances
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Very cool. So Dylan, one thing I love is this playground you have. You can go there, assemblyai.com slash playground, and you can just play around with all the things that is assembly. Is this the recommended path? Is this the try before you buy experience? Look people do?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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I would call him an open source developer. I would call him a developer.
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Yeah, but he's got roots in the Python community and Django, and he definitely has tons of open source out there, too. Anyways, keep going. Yeah, I think his channel is just Jeff Geerling. I don't think it's named anything. Anyways, there's a company called Elkro. To my knowledge, they have several videos out there. When I say several, it's more than one.
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I think it's probably 10 or so potentially. And he's like this, some, I think somebody told him about it. Somehow he found out and he shared a video on his YouTube channel, which we can link up in the show notes, highlighting the fact that he's like, does this sound, does this voice sound familiar? And he plays it and it sounds just like him. Just like him.
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And so, not that I've got a cool voice or Jared, you've got a cool voice, but our voice is out there a lot. I'm wondering, when are we going to get ScarJo'd? Oh, you want this to happen to you. I don't think I want it to happen, but is it going to happen? We have influential voices. I don't know. You know how this works.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Sing the whole thing. Well, I do think it would be cool to tune a guitar like that.
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That's super cool, actually. I mean, that's a good example of tomorrow's tech today.
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Well, I mean, a lot of people don't see it as like this is here and it is.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Unless they evolve, though. I mean, that's just one application. The thing I don't like about ChatGPT is not what it does. It is its interface. In the web version of it, you can't star things and use it as a resource you go back to for continued intelligence development for yourself.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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And maybe that's where other client applications apply, where it's like you're an interface, an API away from a better ChatGPT. I feel like that's where the tuning app that is not evolved can evolve. Right? Yeah. Because it doesn't have to die. It just moves, like Jared has said a couple times, it's about changing your spot on the value chain. Say it, Jared. What's your soundbite, dude?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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It's about changing your spot on the value chain. That's my paraphrase version of it. You gotta, you gotta move around the value chain. It's not, you gotta move up.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Okay, we're here in the breaks. I'm here with Firas Bukidji, founder and CEO of Socket.dev. So Firas, you put out this fire post recently on X. And I'm going to paraphrase. You say the XZ package backdoor was just the tip of the iceberg. Give me just a peek behind the scenes of this incident and what you mean by it's just the tip of the iceberg.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Welcome to ChangeLog and Friends, a weekly talk show about WordPress drama. Big thank you to our friends over at Fly.io. Fly is a public cloud built for developers who ship. Over 3 million apps have launched on Fly, including us. Learn more at Fly.io. Okay, let's talk. What's up, friends? I'm here with a new friend of ours over at Assembly AI, founder and CEO Dylan Fox.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Okay, friends, go to socket.dev. Security dependencies. Socket is on the front lines of securing the open source ecosystem. They're a developer-first security platform that protects your code from both vulnerable and malicious dependencies. Install the GitHub app or book a demo. Again, socket.dev. That's S-O-C-K-E-T dot dev.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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And by our friends over at Superbase, here in the breaks, I'm here with Ant Wilson, CTO over at Superbase. So Ant, I know our listeners know a lot about Superbase, but who are you?
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A good next step is to go to their playground. You can test out their models for free right there in the browser. Or you can get started with a $50 credit at assemblyai.com slash practical AI. Again, that's assemblyai.com slash practical AI.
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okay so bringing postgres to more developers i'm a big fan of that we love postgres here at changelog a lot of developers feel like the main choice or a primary choice for them is amazon web services aws right no one gets fired for using amazon web services but suit base is build no weekend scale of billions what's your vantage point on this as cto of super base
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Well, Superbase is open source. You can self-host it if you want to. It is Postgres for life. It is open source for life. Authentication, instant APIs, edge functions, real-time subscriptions, storage, vector embeddings, things for AI. It's got it all. And no servers managed by you. Just build your app, build in a weekend, scale to billions as you grow.
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Learn more about their recent launch week at superbase.com slash launch week or go to superbase.com and get started. Once again, superbase.com. That's S-U-P-A-B-A-S-E.com. Well, AI is crazy. I am not, to summarize, I am not yet FOMOed by Apple intelligence.
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Just don't get it before ATL. Maybe now is a good time to mention we got some free passes. What are we going to do? We're going to be there again. Correct. All things open. All things open. This is a staple for us. We love Todd. We love the team. I'm trying to encourage Adam Jacob to come there, even though he wasn't planning to come there, just to go eat steak with us, Jared. Okay.
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I mean, I could say more, but that's all I'm going to say. All right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Shout out to Clark Sell, who runs that conference. The organizer of it, he always pushes back on that and says, it's me and other people. A lot of people are part of the front of that conference, but it is literally called that conference. It is. All caps, T-H-A-T conference.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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We can finally publish that episode. I've asked. I was like, okay, we're not going to get it. Was it Danny?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Trained some voice LLMs on it. We might actually need to just do a redo on the Danny Thompson thing.
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Although it was pretty good.
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And we did JS Danger there on stage. Only half of it was recorded, and it was a great show.
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Did he give you that? Did he give you that file too?
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So today for the first time in a very, very, very, very long time, I opened up ARK just because, just because I was like, well, I got to talk about a browser that isn't Safari. And so I've been in meetings recently. I've like screen share with folks and they're sharing their stuff with me and they're navigating around and give me demos and stuff like that. Sure.
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Yeah. Let's see what ChatGPT has to say about this. The term... Eavesdropping originates from the practice of listening to conversations from outside the house. Typically by standing under the eaves. Okay. The part of the roof that overhangs the walls to catch the sound of conversations on the inside. That would be eaves catching. I don't disagree with you on the eaves catching.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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And at least a couple of occasions, I was like, what's that browser? And it was ARK. It's kind of cool. That's it. That's it. I still can't use it though. Why not? It's such a departure from standard web browser that I don't know how to use it. I got to retrain my brain how to use a browser.
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That's about it. I mean, that's the reason. It's just like VIM. It's enough change.
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I mean, like for somebody who hasn't VIMed.
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But for someone who hasn't and they're intimidated or they have imposter syndrome. I can understand why it's challenging to get over that hump to even be comfortable in Vim. And so I would say that Arc or a browser that is uniquely different like it is has similar characteristics of the challenge that Vim has to capture users. And when you're over that hump, maybe you're like, I'm sweet.
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It's great. I get it. But for me, it's like, well, I just can't get past this departure. It's hard.
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Who's they? The people?
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Same. I do want to clarify, just because we put this security mention out there, I pulled up the CVE, the CTO, Hirsch, I believe, of the browser company, the makers of the Arc browser. On August 25th, there was an incident and a fix was out the very next day. The loop to be closed is not the details of it, but that they say no ARC members were affected by this vulnerability.
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They did an analysis of their Firebase access log. So they use Firebase to deploy certain and use certain features inside of the ARC browser. And so they trolled their, I guess they combed. Trolled is probably a bad word. But they combed their Firebase access logs and confirmed that no creator IDs had been changed outside those changed by the security researcher.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Eaves hoping they drop something. The word eavesdrop itself comes from Old English, which I can't pronounce. Y-F-E-S-D-R-E. This E with maybe an año and an P and an E afterwards, which refer to the water that falls from the eaves of a house. So maybe it's like that water drops.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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So TLDR, at least on the breach, is there was no vulnerability. There was a vulnerability, but no one was affected by it.
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I'll link this up in the show notes.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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And, you know, I mentioned this when we talked to Chris Wanstroth and Andreas, when we were talking about Lady Bird, was I think if we can incorporate, I think Safari has done some base level security things. And I believe for the most part, Apple has my privacy in check. Maybe for everyone else, maybe not so much for them.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Maybe they're using a lot of my data, but they're at least not giving it away to my knowledge. Right to repair is a whole different issue. We'll can that for now. But I feel like maybe this max enable max thing that Arc has might be things like what the pie hole does in the browser, like different security things you can do and different features that make sense that would be a paid feature.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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And that would be a for profit company. Or at least a company that wants to make money to sustain, even if it's not for profit. It could be a public good company. I think when you raise money, though, we've seen that chat GPT was open. AI was once open, and now they're not open. So there can be a rug pull even in venture capital land.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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The part I may disagree about a little bit, and the jury is still out on this for me, is that while I'm not an ARC user, I can appreciate a browser trying to be...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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sustainably capitalistic and deploy features that are paid that i may want and may use the browser so i can pay for them because they're not anywhere else or i have to cobble together some self-hosted stuff which is kind of cool if you're into that but if you're not then making that readily available to the masses for $10 a month or some fee may be kind of cool.
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I don't know what they're doing, but it's something like that. It's like ask on page, five-second previews, tidy up tab titles, tidy downloads. These are things that seem to be free. So I could be misspeaking about these being paid features.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Well, I think there's room for one because I speculated with Lady Bird that there could be some sort of subscription model to sustain it. There's definitely room for the browser caring more about security and privacy. And the incumbents, Chrome, Google has had a bad reputation for user privacy. Apple has been on the fence of privacy focused.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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But then they also have lots of things that are behind the scenes that get spoken about their practices that... that may be somewhat true or mostly true, and I still trust Apple. I'm not distrusting Apple.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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What I'm trying to say is I think there's room for a browser to do stuff like this as a business model that isn't just here's a Firefox clone or a Chrome clone or a Safari clone and we're a new company, sustain us. where they can deliver more innovation.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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I think insofar as they've done with the browsing experience, which is the jarring part that I've said that's hard for me to cross that chasm, there's room for features, in my opinion.
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Yeah, it's a lot of AI hate.
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I misspoke assuming that Max was paid. It is not paid. Although there's room for a version of this to be cooler than this AI stuff and be paid, and sustain and potentially profit.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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I don't even know who these people are.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Do you have the AI feature then? He's nodding his head again. Nick, stop nodding your head. I'm just kidding with you. Yeah, I love this AI stuff. I use it. I think it's a feature they could push further into. I talked to Thomas, one of the co-founders and the CEO of Raycast. On a podcast, you can listen to episode 587. Go back a little bit. changelaw.fm slash 587. And
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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I'm an advocate for them turning this into a full-on, not in Raycast, chat app that's like an AI chat app. Because you can interface with all the models. You can easily switch. You can favorite them. You can search them. There's room to unify the world of AI chat into a single application. And I feel like they do that with...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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with raycast but it obfuscates it because it's like within this raycast world and you kind of have to adopt raycast to get the chat app and it's like a sub app of it it doesn't have a full native app i mean it has a full native app experience but there's some unique non-native ux that comes with it and if they made it a dedicated application i think they could dominate
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Like, be the single interface for all of the iChat.
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Who can say? Oh, my gosh.
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Even as I look at the screenshots, what I like about it is when you go to the GitHub repo, it has the link to the app store. Download on the app store, which is this is a Mac app. And as I'm going through the screenshots, it has similar characteristics. I mean, how much different can you make a chat app really? So I'm not even knocking them necessarily, but like it has similar characteristics to
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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Don't stop, Nick. Can't stop. Nick Karaoke Machine. That's the name of the show, Jared. Nick Karaoke Machine.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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of what I like about Raycast AI chat. And Thomas, if you're listening to this show or anybody from your team's listening to the show, you may be doing this already, but gosh, strike the goal while it's hot. Be the single application. And I guess maybe Enchanted might have a leg up because they... What's the license? ALV2? Apache License Version 2? So... Yep. Liberally licensed open source.
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Permissively licensed open source. What's the better way to say that, Jared?
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Liberally, permissively. They're probably interchangeable to some degree. I'm sticking to my guns. Great job, Enchanted and whoever's behind this. AugustDev. Fantastic work. This is free.
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Just on my laptop. Yeah. Well, it's not really a home lab. That's exactly what a home lab kind of is.
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This would be a good chance for you to mention your post on LinkedIn, which is where I learned about this. I actually learned a lot of things about you on LinkedIn.
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Uh, you mentioned your stack for, I think it was a llama and I don't think it was enchanted at the time. Was it something different? Do you recall this? Like maybe three weeks back you mentioned your stack four, you're removing chat GPT and you're moving to something else?
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Llama 3.1 is good enough to ditch ChatGPT as my daily LLM driver. Current toolkit, Ollama and Enchanted. Also interested, and it said something else like a 2E or whatever. So maybe that was a 2E you were mentioning. So it was Enchanted at the time. It was. I didn't think it was. That was a month ago. So you're 30 days ahead of this podcast mention. I love it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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So to summarize, you have a Mac app installed that speaks to Ollama running locally on your machine, not on your network, on your machine. Right. Can you network Ollama and make Enchanted just be like the network driven, like everybody who can install Enchanted? Yeah. Is that a possibility?
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And then you have to sing it. A little bit. Okay.
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We're not paid to hate. We just got a little bit of hate in our hearts. Okay. That's how it works. That's cool. I have to learn how to self-host in the cloud better, which I don't have experience there. My confidence would come from past success. I don't have past success.
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Yes, I suppose. That's what that is. Is that it? Just a little bit of UFW and that's it?
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I might make it a project.
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What's up, friends? I'm here with a good friend of mine, Adam Jacob, co-founder and CEO of System Initiative. And I'm pretty excited to have him here because that means System Initiative is out there. It's GA. Adam, I heard that you launched something.
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Well, let's level some folks up. Let's level up the Terraform folks, the Pulumi folks, the AWS CDK folks. As of System Initiative being GA, these folks are kind of doing things the old way, right?
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That is a good song. And you're never embarrassed by that because you can't achieve Prince Love anyway. So why be embarrassed, right? Exactly. Exactly.
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Okay, System Initiative is out there. It is GA, and it's the future. Go to systeminit.com. Get started in three clicks. They do have a free tier. That means free. No credit card required that you can play with. Again, systeminit.com. That's S-Y-S-T-E-M-I-N-I-T.com. Well, our friends over at Speakeasy have the complete platform for API developer experience.
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They can generate SDKs, Terraform providers, API testing, docs, and more. And they just released a new version of their Python SDK generation that's optimized for anyone building an AI API. Every Python SDK comes with Pydantic models for request and response objects and HTTPX client for async and synchronous method calls and support for server sent events as well.
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Speakeasy is everything you need to give your Python users an amazing experience integrating with your API. Learn more at speakeasy.com slash Python. Again, speakeasy.com slash Python. But speaking of WordPress... Okay, Adam here in post-production.
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Just want to jump in here real quick before we open up this WordPress topic because there has been a lot of details uncovered since we recorded this show. Not that we didn't talk about a lot of good stuff, but some of what we talked about went stale. Some of what we talked about speculated. And some of the stuff we talked about didn't get talked about at all. So there was more to uncover.
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There's lots of things happening around this drama, this topic, this feud, this war. And I just want to let you know that we didn't cover everything. So there you go. Should we segue? Did you mention WordPress?
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For WP Engine, they responded, I think, the next day or two days later with a pretty lengthy, I guess, cease and desist.
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So I was actually paying attention to this closely because, hey, if you didn't know, we now use Zulip as our community chat. True. We're trying it out. It's not officially the one. However, shout out to Nabel. for posting this new topic in general called WordPress drama. And so I've literally been using our own source as a source. Don McKinnon's in there. I'm in there. Nabel's back in there.
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Nabel, Eric's in there. There's some link ups. And so on September 23rd, today's the 25th, we're recording this on a Wednesday in the morning. And so on Monday, Brighton, well, Brighton Light, 5.52 p.m., WP Engine on X slash Twitter, posts today WP Engine sent what is called a cease and desist letter, blah, blah, blah, all that good stuff.
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And then the chef's kiss to this was that it was a PDF from their counsel, and the PDF lives in slash WP dash content slash uploads, which was just like, yeah, right? Cool. And then I believe the response back from Automatic was September 25th or maybe the 24th. Automatic sends WP Engine its own cease and desist.
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Like, hey, I'm going to cease and desist if you cease and desist over WordPress trademark infringement. And I think Matt mentioned this in his talk because I skimmed a lot of that talk. where they use the term WP. And I got to agree. I think I know because I've been in the community for a while to know that it's not WordPress official.
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But being called WP Engine, it is pretty closely aligned to the trademark so much so that you feel like it's as official as it can be without explicitly saying between the parties this is official. You would almost assume as a Passer by user of WordPress and of such, there's many like it powers a lot of the web. It's not that these people are not smart.
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They just don't generally take the time to dig into some of the details that may not matter to them. And I think this may be one of those details you're like, yeah, cool. It's one of the most trusted hosting companies out there for WordPress. So it's probably pretty good. So long story short, Automatic is second on their cease and desist while WP Engine is first.
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Yeah, we should say allegedly. Yes. Is the term that mainstream media uses. Maybe we should use that term here.
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So I'm not a lawyer. I'll start there. And we've said the word allegedly a couple times. Enough so that what I'm about to say is allegedly true or not true. What this cease and desist from WP Engine does not share... It only shares the one side, insofar as I know. Yeah, it's their side. All the screenshots I saw were from Matt Mullenweg to the existing CEO of WP Engine.
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Which, part of, which you didn't mention yet, but part of the thing I think that, and I don't think this is the place you state these concerns... On Matt's side, but part of the issue he takes is that it's a private equity firm that acquired a previously more purposeful company entity called WP Engine. Like the VPN has been around for 15 years or more. I don't even know.
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It's like it's an institution at this point to the WordPress community. It's exchanged hands or change hands has been acquired by a private equity firm that has assets managed, which to my to my taste, like it doesn't matter how much assets under management you have, but it's big. It's billions.
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His issue that he takes in his talk is that I couldn't find the video in the title of it, but it was like private equity is eating the world of X or something like that. It's like something bad to the WordPress community. And so part of the issue is that.
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And so what we don't have, and to zoom back out again, is we only see in their cease and desist to Automatic slash Matt and team, or whoever this is to, their council, is the texts from Matt to them that are pretty damning, if you ask me. They're damaging. They're not... But we don't have context. We don't know what the other part of the conversation is.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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But the issue I think that may have started this was that here's this – I want to say for-good company called WP Engine that was acquired by private equity and has less for-good. They have this thing, this terminology – audience, correct me on this. Nick, if you know, I almost called you Matt –
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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There's this thing where they commit to giving back, almost like a tithe, back to the WordPress community. So Automag does this. They're a for-profit company. Matt Mullenweg is also, I believe, the chairman of the board for the WordPress Foundation. They allege he has more access to the community than he should. He has more power than he should, and so his words weigh quite heavily.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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But there's this idea of giving back to the open-sourceness community. Of WordPress, of which Automatic invests heavily, of which WP Engine historically, at least recently historically, does not.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
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And so that's where I go back into Zulip. Because I scanned this document. The moment that Don Mackinen shared this, things are getting spicy. And he links up this ex-post with the cease and desist to Automag CEO. Yeah. And I said, quote, scanned. If this is even close to accurate and those screenshots are true words that Matt shared with WPE, then that's pretty damaging.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Not sure what this percentage is behind the scenes being referenced, but that wasn't discussed by Matt in the keynote. And so if you watch the keynote, Matt talks from one side too. There's like context missing on both sides. Here's the clincher for me on this. And I don't know what your mileage is on this. I'll say, quote,
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Get out of here, phone. Throw it. Just throw it. Just chuck it across the room. I've got two of them. I just threw them.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
If open source is free in all the ways that free is free, then WPE is also free. WP Engine is also free not to contribute or contribute very little. It's not cool, but they are free to act as such. That's why open source is so powerful. You are free in every way to or not to participate. It's not cool to only give 40 hours, but they can do it because it's called open source. That's how it works.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
So zooming out again, like private equity, siphoning off dollars from the community, Matt's argument, I think it's a sound argument or even a prerogative to have or an opinion to have. I don't think the stage in which he shared it and the way in which it was shared was necessarily right. Again, we are missing some context.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Weren't we on a podcast where somebody did that? They chucked their phone across the room. For some reason, that's like a memory in my brain.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
So maybe that context is pertinent to course correcting that feeling I have, but I just don't feel like you do that. Like that's not, that's like a, that's like a Will Smith all over again. And Chris Rock, man, you don't go up on a stage and slap somebody. Okay.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Get the name WordPress out your mouth.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
You're a PHP guy, though, aren't you, Nick? I'm starting to be more. But I would go, yeah. Do you have a Lambo yet? Not yet. Not yet.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I didn't know the podcast was open though. So when you go to their website, it's not very clear that it is, which kind of is a bummer. But I, I agree with you, Jared. I think it's super cool that when he does like day one, I was a fan of day one. It was awesome. Probably one of the best Mac apps to journal personally.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
It's such a cool application and podcast of old and a whole different show, different idea. I think it was called the Industry Radio Show back with like Drew Wilson and Jared Arandu, a different Jared Arandu, sorry. We podcast with the creator of that back in the day. It was like an indie startup that got acquired by Automatic and then it was open source, I believe too.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Simple Note was part of that. You know, he's got a track record of doing the right thing, I think. Which I do think it's surprising his seemingly harsh way to put this cat out of the bag or push it out of the bag or let it out of the bag. There's some context I'm assuming that's missing because this doesn't seem characteristic of his past behavior.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
What was this feature that they disabled, Jared? I was reading something while you were sharing that context.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
And that's part of the beauty of a startup too. For sure. Is that you don't have to be named adjacent. or similarly to be successful, Flywood did a great job. They were very innovative early on and they ran WordPress websites very fast and they were competitive with WP Engine. Yeah, they were a great company. Nick, you said that we should be on the side of open source, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
That was way too suggestive. I do.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
We should be on the side of WordPress. I mostly agree with that. We should. I'm not against open source. I want to be clear with that. That was very foreboding, wasn't it? I'm for the freedom. I'm for the freedom. Again, I don't think it's cool that WP Engine doesn't give back. There's some context maybe we're missing there. Maybe it's a private equity thing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Maybe it's we haven't done – maybe they got a good reason. Maybe they have a reason period that's their prerogative. But that is the freedom and free of open source in my opinion. It is not cool. Does that elicit this kind of response? Like for the founder, the creator of WordPress to go on stage and say, you guys are jerks. Like, is that, is this that egregious of an offense?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I think it's not cool. I don't think it's the place for the stage of the WordPress or the WordCamp keynote. It could be a blog post like, hey, private equity, siphoning off money, WordPress open source, help me get behind this. Not so much ban them, but like this is not cool. Can we convince them to change their behavior versus like get out of here? You're not welcome here anymore as a sponsor.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
You're being banned. If we want to have a free world in terms of open source, we have to have a free world in terms of participation as well.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
It's a big difference.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Okay. So I'll give you that. I think that it's, I think, so my lens on that is that somebody else said we would rather hear about community updates and changes to WordPress and roadmap and direction versus this drama. So that's my reasoning for it. I don't disagree that they would both have similar amplification. I think it's like poor taste. It's kind of poor taste. It's not the place.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Again, Will Smith going up on stage laughing at Chris Rock. That is not the place to slap Chris Rock. I mean, you shouldn't slap him anyways, but you certainly shouldn't do it at the Oscars.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Two years later, it's a billion.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
15. Okay, let's just say 4,000. That's rounding up. Let's run up to 100 developers. That's pretty accurate, right? Yeah. Yeah. Let's do the comparative math here. If it's one developer, let's just give them a potentially a low average of 100K per year for developer. It's probably somewhat ish. Maybe an average brings it down to 100K. Maybe it's 150. Let's just use round numbers of 100K.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
If you're employing 100 developers, At $100,000 a year, this is pretty basic math, that's $10 million a year in terms of a salary expense. Right. If you do that for one developer for the entire year, it's, well, that's pretty easy math. Like one times one is one, right? Right. One times 100,000 is, tell them, Nick. Right. 100,000. 100,000, Nick. That's the right answer. That's what I said. Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Dylan, tell me about Universal One. This is the newest, most powerful speech AI model to date. You released this recently. Tell me more.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
He nodded his head. So do me this math then, Nick, since you're sharp here on the pencil. Fire a break. I have it ready. Get Siri out. That Apple intelligence Siri. 10 million minus 100,000.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
That's the difference.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
It's like, it's a hundred times more. If that's accurate. If that truly breaks up into 100 people.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
No, this is napkin math. It's fine. Okay. 9.7 million versus. We're all with you. Yeah. I'm joking around. It's for a podcast. It's a difference. It's a big difference. It's a huge difference.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Well, that there is the rub, Rick. How many things are you going to call him that's not his name?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
That is the rub, Rick. I was doing two R's there. I got tongue-tied.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
That's the rub, is that this is a call-out moment without enough context. They are both equally generating similar ARR. That stands for annual recurring revenue for those. I'm just kidding with you. I know you know that, Nick. You're smart. You got this. You got this, Nick. Don't assume things. I don't know. I got very condescending there for a moment.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I know you know this.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I know you know this. And that's where the argument, I believe, is. But we're camping in this world of lack of context. And potentially the wrong place to slap a person. Okay?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
At least threaten. There's some threats.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I did DM Matt prior to cease and desist letters being shared on X. We have exchanged DMs in the past. I don't know why he's being so silent. Just kidding. I totally know why. And I did email Matt. Matt asking for, and this is again, both in both occasions prior to the cease and desist. And I will email it longer because I know why there's no response.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Cause when you have legal issues or concerns or exchanged legal details, you know, it gets, it gets spicy. I can see that my email has been opened because that's how I got it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
That's right. So, did we give away those ATO tickets, Jared? Did we? Did we? I don't think we did. We mentioned it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
How many you got? Can you fan them out? Like money, can you make them rain, these ATO tickets?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I have a retort. Can I retort? What about these tickets? Well, that was partially my retort. I have a retort to your stance. All right, go ahead. Then we'll do the tickets. What bothers me in the marketplace is when an up-and-coming, maybe even a company that's using venture capital in a way that has sustainability behind it,
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Cannot generate revenue or is completely wiped clean because a behemoth of the fangs potentially decides to make their thing free. And I think just maybe in the case of our friends at Zulip, you've got teams that is generally given away. It's paid. There's paid version of it. There's a lot of it where they're able to give away so much for free because they're so big.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
And you have a hard time competing. That's another challenge too is like I'm not against – but again, in the world of commerce, you kind of have to be flexible. But I agree with you on there's healthy ways to take venture capital and there's unhealthy ways to take venture capital. And there's things that unhealthy venture capital does to you as a leader of your product. After you take the money.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Things that get forced on you. That's my simple retort. Okay. All right, fair. I have an idea for how we can get these tickets away.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I think you might like it. Do you mind if I share it? Only if I'm going to like it. I will give you the option to reserve the right to veto my idea. Okay. Okay, cool. We pre-discussed this, so it's not far off from pre-discussion. What if... maybe around this WordPress drama. Maybe not to dive into the WordPress drama topic, but hey, hop in Zulip. We're going to give you a URL to go to.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Hop in Zulip and give us the best pun against this WordPress drama or just something funny to say back about what's happening here. I don't know. Is that an idea? What do you think about that idea? Like I said, we're going to camp out here for a bit. Maybe there's some other. That's probably it. We've already used the best one. Okay. It's like the number one option on Jeopardy.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
There is an introduce yourself topic inside of the channel called general, which Nick hasn't done yet.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
You know you don't know Nick. Not well, if you don't know, he will repeat himself. I'm very used to this.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Gosh. Wow. What a contribution. Did they give you a raise? They didn't fire you the next day?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Everybody knows Nick is here. He's bringing song and emojis. Watch out. Is that it for the show? Is this, is this the friends episode? Is this over? Can we start recording?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
What an Epic Friends episode. Nick is so awesome. I love Nick. He's so much fun to talk to. He is a good friend. He's a lot more fun in person, but he's just as fun in a podcast, as you can tell. But if you like Nick, you'll love Nick even more if you're a Plus Plus subscriber because we...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
did an epic bonus content for our plus plus subscribers jared was there for a little bit and then had to bail and then nick and i were just unleashed to just talk and we did i think it's about 40 minutes i don't know it's a long one And I think you'll enjoy it. So we do have some ATO tickets to give away. We also have a discount code and this is usable by anyone. So here it is.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Go to 2024.allthingsopen.org. That is the website for All Things Open, the conference. There is a registration link. Click that. And when you go there, use the coupon code MediaChangelog20. Now, to be clear, it's capital M Media, capital C Changelog20. So MediaChangelog20 and then CamelCase, Media and Changelog. And then add 20 afterwards. No spaces.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Details are in the show notes, so check that out too if this is confusing. There you go. Hope to see you there. And if we see you there, high fives, hugs, handshakes. Hot mics, whatever. Let's do it. Okay, so if you're not a Plus Plus subscriber and you want to listen to this epic afterwards from me and Nick, then you're going to want to go to changelog.com slash plus plus. It's better.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
You know what? It's better because Nick and I are going at length deep on some books, on some coffee, on some fun stuff. I had a lot of fun. I think you'll really enjoy it. Again, changelog.com slash plus plus. $10 a month, $100 a year. You get to drop the ads. You get to come a little closer to that cool changelog medal. You get bonus content like today.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
You get a free sticker pack sent to you, to your address. And shoutouts on changelognews.com. Here and there. It's so cool. And we had some awesome sponsors today. Assembly AI, Socket, Supabase, and Speakeasy. And of course, to our partners in crime, Fly.io. Share the love. They support us. Go support them if you want to.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
And a big thank you to the Beat Freak in residence, Breakmaster Cylinder for those awesome beats. Hey, that's it. This, friends, is over. So, bye, friends.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I'm with you, though, Jared, on this every two years. And now I'm like, ish, because I don't feel like what made me upgrade last time was my phone had a scratch on it. It was just driving me crazy. And then I felt FOMO of the island.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
It is cool. And anytime there's a major UI update that only a subset gets, which is the new, obviously in most cases, I just felt like I was missing out.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I don't know. I don't know if I do. I feel like, you know, I wouldn't mind playing with it, I suppose, but at this point, no.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
No, I think we're in that camp of, like, you know, summaries is still the killer feature for most AI-related things, I think, especially in that context.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
I don't know. Honestly, I feel like if I saw it in practice, maybe I think maps would be fun. Like take me somewhere. I think Siri upgrades with voice would be where I would get FOMO. And if that's what intelligence brings, which I'm not even closely paying attention, I feel like it's purposefully not paying attention to the details of their announcements so that I don't get this FOMO.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
But I talk to my phone a lot, and I wish that's the part I would be getting FOMO about. The intelligence of that speaking to something that's tangible that it can do. Like, take me somewhere.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Well, yeah, I think 32 is in a quart. A pint, I believe, is 16. You're going to have to go ask again.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
But I opened up a tab on mobile. No, actually, I opened up the app, the chat GPT app and asked the app. And it's like this ephemeral question you don't ever want to go back to as a chat. So that's kind of the thing I wouldn't mind. The Apple intelligence, the phone level to give me those little quick hits. It's like math, but but harder. You know, it's not like two plus two.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
It's how many ounces is in the court. It's not exactly like math. It's harder than math. Well, it might be easily fetchable, but it's not like 2 plus 2.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Well, it's words, right? I don't know if Siri has that. Let's test. Let's test Siri right now. I don't have Apple intelligence. How many ounces are in a quart?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Drilled it. Just wasting my time talking to chat GPT in that app. She's already smart enough.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The wrong place to slap a person (Friends)
Yeah. Okay. That's cool. That is cool. Speaking of voice impersonations and ScarJo. Oh, gosh. Just left adjacent to ScarJo is a guy named Jeff Geerling.