Nick Groff
Appearances
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And they were just really good at it. It was really weird. And I was always trying to figure them out. Like, you know, as a logical thinker, like I believe 100% in the unexplainable because we can't explain everything. But also I'm always trying to be like, all right, what are you doing? That voice was way too clear. How are you doing?
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So I would ask them questions and I would talk to them and I would watch them and I'd be like, oh man, they're legitimately getting like,
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
some creepy freaking voices coming through that is very very validating some of uh the things that were happening um and it was like off camera too it wasn't even for tv it was like just investigating stuff with them personally talking them personally hanging out their house and when whenever we were on crossing pass in reno or virginia city we were up there a lot
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I'm Nick Ruff, co-creator of Ghost Adventures, Paranormal Lockdown, Ghost Talkers, Death Walker. Been on the journey for a very long time, since about 13 years old. I've been exploring the unknown, fascinated by all things weird. And yeah, I've been doing this for a long time, executive produce, edited films, been on camera for over a decade.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Mark was very, not monotone, he would get excited if he heard a voice coming through or something, but Debbie was super energetic and she was definitely more of the alpha, I should say. She was more of the alpha of, You know, and rightfully so. She just had high energy. She was like an Italian like, you know, it was just her personality. But she was awesome. She was super genuine and nice to me.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Same thing with Mark. They were both really, really nice to me and both humble and liked me. And we got along great. But they were very interesting together, almost to the point where I should say like toxic.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
In a relationship, you would almost think that brother-sister fighting all the time, like just kind of disliking each other, but loving each other at the same time. That kind of weird, passionate, like, yo, you guys shouldn't, like, why are you saying that? That's kind of off the cusp, you know? Very aggressive to each other, like vocally. Mark was more like subdued though.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Debbie was very outspoken. So Debbie was just very like, shut up, Mark, you don't know. And Mark would be like, all right, Debbie, come on, stop it. You know, that, seriously, that type of stuff all the time, constant.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So I actually pitched Mark and Debbie Constantino and their family with everything they do and their family to this company. We partnered up, all of us, and we had a crew go off, film everything at their house and film with them for a while and put a whole sizzle reel together that was produced. So yeah, and then that was being pitched around to different networks back then for the cable network.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So that's why I got really, really familiar with them. And I started learning a lot about the family and seeing them and talking to them and everything.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Aliens and UFOs and extraterrestrials. I was that weird kid about 13 years old. My parents took me to Las Vegas to visit my sister's godparents who lived there in Nevada. And they would tell me stories about their father who helped build the bunkers at Area 51 in Nevada in the secret base. And they introduced me to Art Bell at a very early age, so about 1993.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Being on the conference calls with them was very argumental. Not with them, but them two together were arguing all the time on the calls. You know, like, shut up, no, my turn to talk, no, my turn to talk. Like, it was very like a lot of that. But everyone else was cool with them, and they were super nice to everyone else.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But just, I was like, man, it's just, you know, it's just very toxic in that kind of relationship. I guess it wasn't my place, nor did I, like, dissect their marriage or them as people. It was more like being a third party, being there, present when someone is telling another person, like, shut up, stop talking. Like, I don't operate like that with my wife or my family.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I don't like talk or degrade or, you know, down my significant other. So for me mentally, I was like, man, you guys are some rough individuals. Maybe that's just your upbringing. Maybe that's how you guys are. I don't know. Maybe that's how it works. But it just kind of makes you feel uncomfortable at times, or it did for me. But other than that, I just kind of looked away from it.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
would have never imagined in my million years i just thought that's how they were and that's just how they live life and maybe that's how some people are you know because you just don't know but i never imagined uh that i just thought you know i don't know i thought that they it's just weird it's like they're they're together for so long you think that okay they're at like a certain age and they're together and this is just how they'll and like they'll be the rest of their life right like older couple fighting all the time but loving too
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I was listening to my little boombox radio on Art Bell late at night. Then my dad would walk into my room, you know, to try and put me to sleep and stuff as a teenager, and I'd have a map. Remember the old fold-out maps? I actually had a legit map that I was trying to find Area 51. I told my dad, one day I'm going there. I also grew up in Nashua, New Hampshire.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Um, to fast forward in time, I remember getting a phone call from Debbie and she talked to me and just said, you know, it's the point where it's just so toxic and I want this in life. And I personally just, um, was I, I was, uh, off of ghost ventures. I wasn't a part of Ghost Ventures anymore. And I was working on making Paranormal Lockdown.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And she called me and she had this conversation with me. And I said, Debbie, I'll be honest with you. If you really want to change your life and you want to feel good about it, because I was going through a lot of shit back then, too. And I wanted to feel good. I want to be positive. And this is my direction. I'm getting away from negativity. Right.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So I could I could relate to what she was saying without getting personal with her relationship, her life. And I just said, look, it's simple. you want to feel good in life and you want to be positive and move forward with what you want to do, then detach negative things around you and go for it. Like go after what you personally want to do and I'll leave it at that.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And that conversation we had and then she I didn't hear from her a bit. And I didn't hear from anyone, but I was so hyper-focused on making Parent Lockdown that, you know, that's kind of what it became for a little bit. The last event I did with them was my first Nick Roth tour event at the Mansfield Reformatory in Ohio. I literally convinced them.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
They weren't working together anymore at that point. They didn't want to do stuff together, but I convinced them to come to the event and be a part of it. I had like everyone there for guests. And they agreed. They said, we both like you. We'll put our differences. And they were cool. They came out. They were cool. And they were cordial. But they were still bickering.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
We went out to dinner together. You know, I just, I still saw it. I said, wow, this is, I don't know, this is getting out of control, kind of toxic. And that was kind of the last event I did with them.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And my grandparents, specifically my grandma, she would talk to me too about the abduction case that took place in New Hampshire way back in the 50s. So I got introduced at a very early age to aliens and then I was just, you know, that interesting kid that would look up into space or look up into the sky and say, what else is out there? We can't just be it as human beings in this vast universe.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And then I get a phone call, and it's Debbie again. And she tells me that she was coming back to her house with her friend, and all of a sudden, Mark and I think their daughter were there, something like that.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
He confronted her in the driveway, and she said, this was her exact words to me on the phone, she said that he grabbed her by the neck and threw her to the ground and was strangling her, and she said his eyes went black like he was possessed by the devil, is what she told me.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And she said, I did it like I was, like, screaming for my life, and her friend was being attacked, and then she said something, and he, like, let go or something, she said to me. And then, you know, she, like, scrabbled away, and then the police came and arrested Mark for domestic abuse, which you probably heard of after the fact on the news and whatever what happened.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And that was her, that's what she told me. And I said, I said, Debbie, like, I didn't know what to think because I knew Debbie for a long time. Like, she used to talk kind of like that, like, like, not like, I don't know, not like losing your mind, but just like, oh, my God, this and that and this and that, you know, and it's just kind of like that.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I just said, look, I really can't get involved in any of this stuff right now. Like, what are you telling me? I sympathize for you. I'm sorry. Like, and she was just worried and she was just talking to me. And then I just, I kind of just talked a little bit more and I listened to her and I let her go. And that was it. I moved on. I'm like, holy shit, I can't get involved with this right now.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Whatever's happening in your life, I don't want to be a part of anything like negative. I just got away from negative. I'm trying to do good things and bigger things. And like, that's all I need right now to be a part of something like this.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And then she calls me and she a while later and she says, Nick, I just want to call you and tell you that Mark's probably going to be getting out of jail. I'm like, OK, I really didn't even know he was in jail or anything that was going on after that. I forgot about it. I just thought it was a thing and like life is going on. And she starts telling me that, um. Mark's getting out of jail.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And I said, okay. And she goes, if he calls you, please do not tell him where I am. And I said, Debbie, I have no clue where you are right now. So just don't tell me where you are. If he calls me, I don't know. I really don't know. So I don't know. And I keep telling you, I can't get involved. I don't know what's going on or what's happening. I know you're calling like...
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I guess as a friend at this point, and I'm like, and she goes, no, I understand. I just want you to know, thank you so much. Like, you know, you've been great and working with you and all this stuff. It's just been crazy. But she's like, I did it. I finally got my life together. I moved on. I moved away. I'm like going in a positive direction. I'm in a positive place.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So like, if he calls you, just don't like say, mention anything. Like I called you or anything. I go, no, I won't. I have no clue. So yeah. That's awesome. I'm happy for you that you're doing positive and you're doing good." And that's what she was. She really meant it. She sounded different in her tone. She just said, I've moved on and I'm moving on right now.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
In high school, I actually was looking for ghosts in paranormal. My buddies and I, we would hop in the car and hear about this burnt down house in Massachusetts. We would drive over the border and go see this house and we'd walk up to it and then all of a sudden there'd be a creek in the house and all my buddies would run away and I would be the only one standing there looking in the window.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And I said, I'm really happy for you. That's awesome. I'm doing the same. I got this great thing that I'm working on. She's like, that's so cool. She started talking to me about some other stuff.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
about the network and what happened to me and all the other stuff that you probably heard about what I posted online about, you know, being like over my show, Ghost Ventures and moving on and doing Paramo Lockdown and what happened to me and how I was kind of done wrong. She was like supporting me on the phone, like saying, I've always believed in you. You always were good. And I know the truth.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And that's what she told me. I knew the truth with what everything happened to you and I support you and I'll still support you. Yeah. And that's the last I talked to Debbie.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I get a phone call and it's Mark. And Mark calls me. I forget exactly when it was. I think the next day or so, the next two days or so, Mark calls me and says, hey, Nick, how's it going? I said, good. What's up, Mark? How's everything? And he was just matter of fact about everything, just really chill. And he starts talking to me, oh, you know, this and that.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I didn't know what to believe at this point because just how Mark came off, it was just like, no, no, everything, like, it's just, it's been rough and this and that. And I didn't know if it was like,
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
i don't know like an argument that they had and something that they had because you know i'm not there i'm just hearing from two different people what's going on and the way mark comes off was just matter of fact and chill and you know like this is just the stuff that's happening so i it's just one of those things you know i'm like third party on the outside not truly knowing like factual stuff that's happening so i'm hearing these two people and mark's telling me and i said the same thing to mark i said mark look
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I'm just going to tell you right now, I can't get involved in like whatever's going on. Like, and he's like, no, no, I know you can't. And I was just calling you. I just want to tell you, thank you, man. Thank you for always just being, you're a good person. You're supportive. Everything we've done our whole life. Thank you. I know you can't get involved. It's okay. It's fine. And I said, and
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So I was one of those kids. It didn't scare me as much. I was more intrigued.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And but thinking back, I think he was looking to pry on information to see if I knew where Debbie was in the conversation. But he knew I didn't. So we just talked and I was quick to cut it down with like, I don't want to be involved. So and your relationship or your issues or whatever was happening. And that's kind of it. And he just stopped and he said, just stop. It was weird.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
It's almost like he was saying goodbye to me in a weird way. He just like, thank you, man. And almost like, I'm glad I knew you and thank you. And you were always a good person and take care. That's all he said to me. I had no clue. You know, I wish I would have known because I would have said something.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I went to college at UNLV, and I started exploring all the haunted mining towns. I went up to Area 51 in the little town of Rachel. I got as close as I could to the secret base. And I just started exploring all those things that intrigued me as a little kid. I had video camera equipment back then. I was shooting little films because I went to film school.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So I made my first project called Malevolence in 2004 that screened at the Santa Vegas Film Festival with Dennis Hopper, David Lynch, and all those people that were there. And I said, man, I want to make a project where I go off and I document, you know, anything to do with ghost or paranormal. And I just want to see if it exists. So I said, I have all this camera gear.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I know how to kind of edit mini DV tape and kind of put something together. But I didn't know what that was. I didn't even know what a documentary was back then. I just knew that I could film and have like a lump of mini DV tapes and footage and kind of put maybe a narrative or something behind it. Let's just see what happens.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I found out by watching the news and finding out it was all over social media and the news. I was like, holy shit. I literally just talked to them the last couple of days, both of them back to back.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I can't believe that it went this far. I just never could have imagined that he would cross that line and take her life. And I think what went through my head so weirdly and bizarre, because I'm a very empath and I knew them very well, we would investigate a lot together on and off camera for TV and not, and just, you know, together.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
they would get a lot of negative disembodied voices, EVPs, a lot of negative, like, swearing words, all sorts of stuff. And I would always say, man, I feel like there's a lot of negativity surrounding you guys more so than the hauntings itself. And maybe that's a lot of, like, imprinted EVPs occurring. And I just felt that in my head when I found out of...
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
the horrible, tragic event that happened, that what was Mark saying to her and what were they talking about before because I know he took her life first and then took his. To get to that stage, I'll never fully understand with my consciousness.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Taking someone else's life, especially someone who you loved and adored, because I know they did at a point, but so toxic to be the point where you just lose the mentality, the darkness, the negativity to let it encompass you all these years of investing negative hauntings, did that overtake the mentality of just slipping into this kind of demonic phase?
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Not saying it has anything to do with that, but you have to wonder how negative your mentality has to be in a mental illness space to just cross that line as a human being, to take someone who you adore and obsess about and just...
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
you know take their soul right out of the human body and i think that is more frightening to me knowing the mentality how humans can be and i think it's just there's a lot of evil that walks on this earth and you know knowing them both very very well and personally i just like i'm like man like mark i knew you like I never knew it could end up like this.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
You know, I wish they would just walk away. I think he did it out of anger and craziness. And he was so obsessive with like, Debbie, you're not leaving me. This is like, you know, our till death do apart marriage. And I think that was the mentality of like his going into this, searching her down and just like controlling and obsessing and staying.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And it's just sickening thinking back on what happened because knowing that Debbie moved on and she was trying to push forward in life and then knowing what happened and Mark just couldn't move on and let go and it's just really, really fucked up, you know?
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So I knew Aaron Goodwin for a long time. He would sneak into my college classes, and that's how we kind of became friends. At the end of classes, we'd be the two standing there talking to the film professor. And the film professor would tell Aaron, hey, you want to do film projects, work with me, Nick, because I was already doing stuff. So that's kind of how we befriended.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
We knew each other for a long time. Then I graduated college, and I started picking up wedding gigs, filming weddings, filming corporate events.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I met Zach by doing weddings and stuff. He's a wedding DJ. And so we befriended. I said, I'm working on some projects. Hey. And he said, oh, I can do film and stuff like that. I said, all right. And I hired him to actually shoot second camera for me at weddings.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But not until years later did I see an episode of sightings on TV about the Sally House. And that's when I actually got really fascinated about spirits and poltergeists and things that could possibly attack you from beyond.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
You know, I saw the documentary news team who filmed that guy in the house, the family, and seeing him be scratched on camera while the reporter's filming without any cuts or anything being broadcasted, I said, man, if that's legit, I want to go out there and see if possibly something can physically harm me from beyond. And what is that? How is that possible? And do ghosts exist?
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I really want to see firsthand. You know, I've had experiences as a little kid, but, you know, as a logical thinker and getting a little bit older and more in depth into the paranormal, I really just wanted to see for myself and kind of search it out.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I said, man, I want to make a project where I go off and I document, you know, anything to do with ghost or paranormal, and I just want to see if it exists. So I said, I have all this camera gear. I know how to kind of edit mini DV tape and kind of put something together. But I didn't know what that was. I didn't even know what a documentary was back then.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I actually had a couple of news channels reach out to me. I knew nothing about her. I was way away from Ghost Adventures when Aaron met her. So I didn't know anything about her.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
never met her um it's kind of sad you know thinking knowing back then when uh aaron and i used to talk and stuff like just knowing how he was as a person and and just knowing that somebody could you know betray and go that deep and crazy it just it's wild
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Oh, my God, it does. Play it again. Oh, yeah, choice, dude. Oh, it does. It sounds exactly like us.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I just knew that I could film and have like a lump of mini DV tapes and footage and kind of put maybe a narrative or something behind it. Let's just see what happens.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So I called Zach up. I said, hey man, I have all this camera equipment. Let's hop in the car. Let's go up to Virginia City, Nevada. I went there during my spring break, so I knew about Virginia City, Nevada. Let's go investigate all these haunted locations. I was walking through them on my spring break.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I drove up there and I filmed a bunch of stuff on a VHS camera back then, but I have better cameras now. We can have night vision cameras with super night vision back then. This is 2004, 2005, started it. And he said, OK, let's do it. You know, he told me about some experience he had in Michigan and and basically jumped in his little Scion car, which was super small.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And we partnered up to go off and shoot that. And I said, hey, I know another guy who's really funny. He's a good friend of mine, Aaron, and we can take him with us. He can shoot camera two, three. So it would be like the three of us. So we can have two camera shots and whatever we can film.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Mind-blowing, some of the footage show I was blown away and just started molding this weird narrative that I didn't know what it was or what to call it or anything, just started putting our journey together. And long story short, It unfolded into, you know, a documentary. And I called him and I said, hey, let's call it Ghost. It's like an adventure for us.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And, you know, he didn't really like the name in the beginning because he thought it was too Disneyland-ish. And I said, no, trust me, it's Ghost Adventures. Like, it's just, it's cool. It's like Adventure Bus and we're looking for ghosts. Ghost Adventures.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
It aired in 2007 documentary and it did like 1.2 million viewership on cable. Cable television network back then was huge. And from there, we got introduced to another company who picked up the series in 2008 and aired on Travel Channel. So that's how it started, man. That's exactly how it kind of went down really quickly, summed up with all the blood, sweat and tears.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Yeah, I remember climbing the Statue of Liberty in Manhattan, New York. We were there pitching, you know, the documentary into a reality show. And I remember getting the call after we walked out of Travel Chill and they said that they want to pick up the series for eight episodes. And that's how it started.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Yeah, Mark and Debbie Constantino, I met them, let me think, way back was on Ghost Adventures. We were in Nevada. I think, oh, we were doing an event. It was one of our first events we did publicly right when the documentary came out. And back then, they were the EVP specialists, Electronic Voice Phenomena specialists, like Spirit Voices, Digital Recorder, playing back on their DR-60 back then.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
They had an arsenal of digital recorders and different types of recorders.