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Natalie Morales

Appearances

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1001.212

Now, the horse ranch, the East Tennessee Riding Club, was Erin's favorite place in the world as a child. According to Lore, it was like her second home.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1019.088

Erin's mother, Lore, said she was a quiet and shy girl. And sometimes she seemed to be more comfortable around animals than people.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1047.748

Good boy. Shake. Shake. Erin could even train cats. This was her leading her cat through tricks. Lay down one more time. Good boy.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1068.75

So when Erin discovered the East Tennessee Riding Club and began to experience working with horses, she excelled.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1088.039

Another local family, the Corwins, were also frequent visitors. Aaron and John met at the barn. They met when Aaron was in fifth grade. She was 10. John was just a year older.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1113.895

In a small city with a sheltered life, Aaron found the Corwin family house exciting. She would go and play. but she was always especially shy around John. John seemed shy around Erin too. John Korn was a very quiet young man. They grew up together slowly and patiently at first.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1154.803

John was a serious and stoic teenager. His aspirations were always clear to him.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1165.706

At 17, John began the process to join the Marine Corps. He took tests for aptitude and strength, and he planned to go to basic training and boot camp the summer after he graduated high school. And meanwhile, despite their young age, Erin and John became serious fast. They started talking about marriage. Erin, full of excitement, told her mom.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

120.73

But then, no one knew where Erin was. On the phone, Erin's husband, John Corwin, told Lore that the last place he knew Erin had gone was Joshua Tree National Park.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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The couple went to John's senior prom together. Aaron was barely 18 when he proposed. This may sound a bit early for marriage, but it isn't that uncommon for a military couple. Young Marines who choose to enlist right after high school will move to whatever location the military assigns them. And for many young Marines, the path ahead includes marriage.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1228.152

Married couples get preference when it comes to securing housing on base.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1242.774

So John, like many Marines before him, wanted to start this journey with his high school sweetheart. But Lore wasn't sure Erin understood the reality of marrying a Marine.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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At 18 years old, John chose the Marines, and Erin chose John.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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On a beautiful fall afternoon in 2013, Erin was stuck inside unpacking boxes. The tree-lined view from her childhood bedroom in Tennessee was replaced with the sandy expanses and cacti of 29 Palms, California. By all accounts, she was still a newlywed. She and John had not yet celebrated a year of marriage. Despite a condo full of boxes, Erin was alone.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1358.633

John's deployment at Okinawa, Japan, continued on for another few months, and Erin's new life as a 19-year-old Marine's wife began. If she ever felt isolated in Oak Ridge, life on the Marine base challenged her even more. Erin went from living in a house full of siblings... to an empty apartment. All she could do was wait for John to come home.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1398.044

Erin tried to develop a routine. She went to the commissary a few times a week to pick up groceries. Otherwise, she spent her time watching TV and scrolling Facebook. She texted her friends back in Tennessee often. After a few months, John came home, but not much changed for Erin.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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She was lonely. But one day, according to her mother, Lore, things started to improve when Erin made her first friend on base. Erin was busy unloading her saddle out of her car when she bumped into her next-door neighbor. Nicole and Aaron clicked because of the horses. Nicole Lee lived right next door to Aaron and John. She was a fellow Marine's wife.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1460.508

And when Nicole saw Aaron carrying a saddle, she invited Aaron to come by the ranch where she kept her horse, the White Rock Horse Rescue. It was just a 40-minute drive from the Marine base. And with Nicole's invitation, Erin was immediately reminded of her favorite place on Earth, the writing club in Tennessee. She probably felt a pang of homesickness and excitement.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1509.258

Isabel Megley is the founder and CEO of this desert rescue ranch, but she was never tucked away in an office somewhere. Isabel preferred to be outside with the horses and the people who volunteered to take care of them.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

154.631

Bill, Erin's father, worried that Erin wouldn't find her way out.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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48 Hours producer Paul LaRosa met Isabel while he was covering Aaron's story. He reached out to her for an interview, but she never got back to him. He figured they'd visit the horse ranch anyway.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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While La Rosa was videotaping the sights on the ranch, he noticed a small group of people approaching him.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1620.359

Isabel was exactly the sort of person Erin knew well, a fellow animal whisperer with a menagerie of pets following her around the land. And when Nicole introduced the two of them, Erin knew exactly how Isabel could help her.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1642.819

It was decided Erin would volunteer on the ranch. She would pay to adopt a horse and take care of it, and then she'd be able to ride. Many military families from the 29 Palms base enjoyed the ranch, For Nicole, it was a family affair. She'd spend the day at the ranch with her marine husband, Christopher Lee. Now that included Aaron.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1712.805

Isabel felt she came to know their relationship well.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

172.675

In addition to her lack of hiking experience, Erin was not particularly prepared for the outdoors.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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Erin would pile in with the Lee family for the ride to and from the horse ranch. Thanks to them, she could see her horse whenever she wanted. Her relationship with the local community grew, while her marriage strained.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1753.402

Isabel welcomed the Marine families onto her ranch, and she observed. Later, she became a valuable source for the NCIS agents working to find Erin Corwin. On Monday, June 30, 2014, Erin had been missing for 48 hours. News spread across the Marine base quickly.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1788.995

Analyst Ashley DeChelfin had her eye on Erin's social media. She made note of the people who seemed to be close to Erin. who had recently tagged her in a post, who had commented. She searched through Erin's Facebook friends and looked through their friends to figure out how people knew each other. There was a lot of useful information publicly available.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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Analyst DeChelfin just had to determine which leads were worth following, what was real and what was speculation. In such a small community, this proved difficult early on.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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Before long, the news about Erin reached Isabel's horse rescue.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1895.535

For a concerned mother, the waiting game was misery.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1909.105

After the 48-hour mark, with no sign of Erin, it was all hands on deck for the NCIS agents.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1926.295

NCIS paired up with San Bernardino's search and rescue team. They had three main objectives, to determine a safe plan of action, to locate Erin Corwin, and to bring her to safety. First, they had to assess the situation based on the story John told. They needed to look for clues.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

194.883

Bill and Lorne knew their daughter. This didn't sound like her. She wouldn't go on an overnight hike spontaneously. She probably wouldn't go on an overnight hike at all. Erin was a homebody. She stayed inside her comfort zone. The Hevelins thought through what might have happened. and quickly discounted some possibilities.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

1947.979

Special Agent Randolph and his team knocked on doors on base, asking if anyone had any information about Erin, any other story to corroborate or contradict her husband's. Was John Corwin telling the truth? This season on 48 Hours NCIS, the search for a missing Marine's wife uncovers secrets that nobody expected.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

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From CBS News and CBS Studios, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Original reporting by 48 Hours producer, Paula Rosa. Anthony Batson is the senior producer for 48 Hours. Jamie Benson is the senior producer for Paramount Audio. Special thanks to 48 Hours executive producer, Judy Teigard, CBS Studios senior vice president, Rob Luchow, and Paramount Audio vice president, Megan Marcus.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

2020.53

Our podcast was written and produced by Jay Venables, Isabel Kirby-McGowan, Kara Schillen, Max Johnston, Megan Nadolsky, and Ian Enright. Additional reporting and recording by Isabel Kirby-McGowan, Jay Venables, and Megan Nadolsky. Our executive producers are Megan Nadolsky and Ian Enright. Theme and music by Epidemic Sound. Original music from Goat Rodeo with additional music from Paramount.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

2050.09

Final mix by Rebecca Seidel. Ian Enright is our fact checker. Our production manager is Megan Nadolski. I'm Natalie Morales. If you're enjoying this show, be sure to give it a rating and review. It helps more people find it and hear our reporting. If you liked 48 hours NCIS, check out the rest of our 48 hours podcasts by searching 48 hours on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

227.644

Worried, Lohr pressed Erin's husband, John, for more details. The last time John said he saw Erin was early the morning before. He said she kissed him goodbye around 7 a.m., and he watched her drive off in their car. He went back to sleep. A while later, he got up and spent the day playing video games. By nightfall, Erin still hadn't come home. She was supposed to be back in time for dinner.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

257.335

But John went to bed. The next morning, according to John, It had been 24 hours since Aaron had driven out of sight. John alerted the authorities. Then he called Lore.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

287.276

I'm CBS News correspondent Natalie Morales. This is 48 Hours NCIS, where we take you inside a case NCIS agents say they will never forget. Episode 1, Where is Aaron? While his 19-year-old wife was missing, John spent most of the day at home.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

325.538

Paul LaRosa is a producer for CBS News and 48 Hours. He reported on Erin Corwin's disappearance. La Rosa had a lot of experience telling true crime stories. He knew that generally when someone goes missing, the first person investigators turn to when they need answers is the spouse. In this case, that was John Corwin.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

357.051

So to the authorities, it was initially suspicious that John waited to report Erin missing.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

40.982

On a beautiful summer Sunday morning, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee with her husband, Bill. They were getting ready to go to church when they received an awful call.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

402.825

Once John finally did alert the authorities, the local sheriff's department in San Bernardino immediately opened up an investigation. But they needed help for this specific case.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

425.712

NCIS, the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. Most of us may recognize this name from television.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

440.357

The television show NCIS follows a cast of characters, including NCIS special agents, field agents, forensic specialists, and more, through 21 seasons of scripted primetime television drama. But the NCIS is a real-life federal agency. NCIS is sort of like an in-house FBI for the Navy. There are only about a thousand special agents based all over the world.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

469.695

In Japan, Singapore, Bahrain, Italy, and yes, at the Marine Base in 29 Palms, California.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

488.799

NCIS Special Agent Clifton Randolph Jr. was alerted by the sheriff's department that a Marine's wife was missing.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

519.674

The Marine Base, what Special Agent Randolph called the installation, was the largest Marine Corps base in the world. In addition to housing an NCIS office, there were about 900 families who lived on base. By 2013, that included the Corwins. However, the base was not exactly busy. 48 Hours producer Paul LaRosa remembered the first time he ever drove by the base.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

563.823

If you were a resident of the base, like Aaron Corwin was, every time you came home, you passed through a large gated entrance with a security checkpoint. From there, a sort of main street led to a small downtown area of buildings, including offices, a mess hall, a library, a small hospital, and even a bowling alley.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

586.16

Housing for the military families branched off this main area into secluded suburban plots and cul-de-sacs.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

607.447

The rest of the base's immense acreage, almost 71,000 acres in total, was taken up by vast military training areas, including airfields and shooting ranges.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

626.933

In the early 2000s, the majority of units in the Marine Corps deploying to Iraq trained here. Not too far from the base's residential area, there was a sandy stretch protected by mountains named Mini Baghdad. But when Erin moved to the base, her entire world shrunk to those few miles right inside the gated entrance.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

650.72

In such close quarters, Special Agent Randolph said he got to know his neighbors well.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

679.392

In his office, Special Agent Randolph got to work. His first step was to take what the Sheriff's Department knew and ask himself, what don't we know?

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

68.095

Bill and Lore hadn't seen their daughter Aaron in a few months. Aaron recently moved out of the Hevlin family home to start a new life in California with her high school sweetheart and now husband, John Corwin. They moved to a small city called 29 Palms, a blip in the middle of the Mojave. What brought the Corwins there was the Marine base.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

699.818

Special Agent Randolph had questions. What if Erin didn't go where she said she was headed? What if she just got on the highway and drove? But what if she actually was at Joshua Tree National Park? The park is larger than the state of Rhode Island. How could they ever comb through nearly a million acres of land? Special Agent Randolph thought through all the possibilities with one main focus.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

749.793

There was one big problem working against the NCIS agents and Erin. Time.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

763.593

So Special Agent Randolph dispatched a team of NCIS experts.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

773.945

Analyst Ashley DeChelfin was sent to the 29 Palms Marine Base from another NCIS office on the Camp Pendleton Marine Base only a few hours away. When she arrived in 29 Palms, she met her colleagues, got up to speed on the investigation, and dove right into work.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

802.665

She scrubbed through Erin's social media. It was 2014 and Facebook was all the rage. What was the last thing Erin posted on her profile? When was she last active online?

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

823.741

Like Special Agent Randolph, Analyst DeChelfin understood what was at risk if she missed any detail that could prove vital.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

848.18

In order to find Erin, the agents needed to learn who Erin was. They needed to understand her, her personality, her temperament, what she liked and disliked. And they needed to understand her relationships, her marriage, and her family. So they picked up from California and headed to Erin's hometown, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, where Erin's life began. Erin was born on July 15, 1994.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

880.325

When she was two weeks old, her birth mother placed her in foster care. But very soon, Erin found her home.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

902.236

By the time Erin turned three, the Heavlin family officially adopted her. She joined a house full of siblings.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

918.247

Bill and Lore also had two biological children. They all lived together in a nice house in the small city of Oak Ridge, about 25 miles west of Knoxville, Tennessee. It's a hidden city tucked along the Black Oak Ridge Mountains. And for much of its history, it was kept a secret. One of its nicknames is the city behind a fence.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

93.21

John was a Marine, Corporal Corwin officially, and Erin was a Marine's wife. They lived on the base in a small apartment, their first home together. Bill and Lore hadn't seen the new place yet. When John called, Lore had been planning a trip out west to visit Erin later that week.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

958.148

Paula Rosa visited Aaron's hometown, and he noticed a through line from Aaron's childhood in Oak Ridge to her future on the Marine Base in California.

48 Hours

Where is Erin?

981.385

And Erin herself was very sheltered. She was homeschooled. So much of her life took place in the family home. On Sundays, the family went to the local church.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

1024.519

Usually there's a more clear-cut finish or ending to the story. In this case, he was acquitted. And I think the reason is because, again, jurors found reasonable doubt. Consultant Lisa Andrews again told us this all came down to the prosecution not proving their case in court. They didn't have enough evidence. And, you know, the jury paid attention. They did their jobs.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

1048.786

They couldn't connect the dots in this case.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

1094.16

And it's interesting. I did. I did ask him, too, about that, because his training, you would think, is something that also would kick in that when you see somebody pointing a gun at you as a officer, you know, law enforcement, you're trained to deescalate the situation. I asked him about that when he said his training kicked in because he saw her finger was right on the trigger.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

1117.037

And he knew he had to get the gun out of her fingers because he knew that if there was any sort of pressure on that trigger, it would go off. And in fact, that's what happened.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

1151.499

Yeah. You know, it's always heartbreaking when you cover these stories. In this case, though, looking at Petrina, that's Patricia's daughter, and she looks just like her mother. I mean, they look like they could have been sisters, right? And they had such a close bond, such a close relationship. And Petrina talked about how much hope Patricia had when she married Renard.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

1176.846

Renard was her first true love, her first marriage, her first house that they bought together. I mean, she viewed this as sort of her happily ever after. So it's just such a senseless tragedy. And, and Petrina said she had not cried. And, and in the middle of doing the interview with us, she started to cry and she was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I'm crying.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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I think it was sort of cathartic for her, you know, having the resolution, even though it didn't go the way she thought it would go. She at least was sort of dealing with the emotions finally.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

1258.478

How is Renard doing today? Trying to pick up the pieces of his life, too. As we said, he's mourning the loss of Patricia as well. He still says she was the love of his life. He's spending a lot of time with his grandkids, doing a lot with his church within his community. Renard is trying to turn what was a horrible tragedy now into doing positive work.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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And he's volunteering most weekends for an organization called that is near and dear to him called Hoodies of Healing. It's an organization that helps to feed the homeless. And so he's very involved with that.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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Thanks, Anne-Marie. Thank you.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

141.571

That's our job to do that, to present both sides of the story. I think what the challenge was for the authorities was to figure out who the real aggressor was in this situation, who had the finger on the trigger when the gun went off. And that camera, by the way, right over the refrigerator, that's because... Patricia Spivey's father was living with them and he has onset dementia.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

166.028

So therefore, they always had the camera rolling just to keep track. His room was not far off from the kitchen. So that's why that camera was specifically placed there. But that footage gave us sort of a window into the the moments leading up to what happened that night. And again, it comes down to we know when things happen because you even hear the shots based on that security footage.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

191.904

But what we don't know is how that happened and who really had their finger on the trigger in those moments.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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Well, you know, what Renard told us, because he did agree to an interview, you know, after he was acquitted, he thought that night there had been some tension building in the relationship.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

260.173

And also on that security footage, you can hear it sounds like at one point where Patricia, before she went to bed, you hear in the background, Patricia said over and over again as if she's upset with him about something. but we don't know what exactly. And so in that time, something happened. Renard said,

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

286.434

He picked up her phone after she went to bed from her bed stand, went to the closet, looked at the phone, and that's when she confronted him, he says, with the gun at the front of the closet. And that's when he got very nervous because he knew it was fully charged and it doesn't have a safety mechanism on it. And if the finger is on the trigger, it can go off.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

314.926

So that's when he said he tussled with her to get control of the gun and the shots went off.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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Yeah. System disarmed. Ready to arm. All right. All right.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

414.598

Sir, we need to get back to your wife to continue the compressions. All right, ma'am. I mean, did he explain that? So, Ann Marie, yes, the operator is asking on the 911 call if he is in the bedroom. But he replies with yes, even though we see in the security footage from their kitchen that he is now walking to the garage. And he said it was to open the door for the first responders.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

447.17

So he's now removed himself from doing CPR on Patricia at that moment. And he didn't tell the operator that at the time. And it's important to remember, he himself had been shot in the leg. So we know that at that point, there was some trauma. And so he is giving her CPR. And he said... He felt he needed to go open the garage door to allow the first responders to enter.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

478.065

So that's how he explained it to us. He was like, I did what I thought I needed to do to best get the help that she would need.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

507.93

seems to carry the burden of what happened on that night and, you know, that he feels her loss. I mean, he says to this day he still loves Patricia very deeply. And I think what, you know, is most troubling for him is knowing that it was his gun that was charged and on the nightstand that ultimately led to this tragic death. he did want to talk. He wanted to tell us his side of the story.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

535.478

And he wanted to, you know, I guess somewhat clear his name because with a lot of these cases, this happened right before COVID and COVID interrupted the legal process. So this case was put on hold for four years. So in the public eye, he was looked at perhaps as being guilty, even though he hadn't had his day in court yet. And he was eventually acquitted.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

54.913

Yes. And we're just a couple of towns over from the Palisades fire and all around me, a lot of people have lost a lot. So my thoughts are with them. If, you know, there are also some technical difficulties as well in recording this because with winds the way we've had them for the last couple of days, if I freeze every now and again, I apologize. Right.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

634.675

It seems like a basic... necessity when it comes to figuring out whose finger was on the trigger. But it was his former service weapon. It was always right by the bed, charged, which in itself is the problem here. You know, this was a Smith & Wesson service gun, and the design of it, it doesn't have the typical safety mechanisms.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

659.034

And defense attorney Dick DeGaran showed us how it could go off over and over again because it automatically recharges. Which, you know, is so scary when you think about that. But again, we don't know. The defense argued that the state never proved whose hand again was on the trigger. So that really came down to being crucial at trial and presented reasonable doubt for the jury.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

690.811

which I thought was surprising. Right. We poured over the medical examiner's report with CBS News consultant Lisa Andrews. She looked it all over for us. That was key to this case. And the medical examiner's report ruled it was a homicide. But what was unclear was the number of, you know, entry and exit wounds. They couldn't determine the amount of shots fired. Was it two shots?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

74.337

And you might hear the dogs barking in the background. And the dogs barking because there are a lot of people in the neighborhood making sure things are okay.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

742.987

Dick DeGaran showed us with the actual weapon, that Smith & Wesson revolver, he reenacted what Renard told him happened on that night and the trajectory of the bullets. He kind of did this whole demonstration with me showing how they fought over the gun, how he was holding her arm, and the way the trajectory of the bullet would have entered her arm into her side and then hit her chest.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

771.529

Also, the defense said, The number of shots really didn't disprove that it was an accident, given that this is a gun that is charged and can continually be fired and keep going. The prosecution, though, was arguing that it's hard to believe that multiple shots are fired, that it is an accident.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

790.914

One more thing, though, what was interesting, what you mentioned in the hour, is there was a fourth sound as well on the surveillance footage. It was unclear if it was another shot. The question, according to the state, was could it have possibly been Renard shooting his leg at that time, a fourth shot. But there was no proof of that. And the sound was so indistinct.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

948.112

The daughter talked about how Renard seemed to be controlling. Also, Patricia's cousin, Sybil Shepherd, who she was very close with, talked about Renard's alleged controlling behavior. Patricia had this annual cruise that she would do with Sybil. And after a time, Sybil said it became increasingly more difficult because Renard was always checking on them and just controlling and not letting them

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

976.108

have their fun. And Renard denied that. You know, he said, I let her go on the cruise. I let her, you know, she went on multiple cruises after we got married. So he denied any controlling behavior. Also, in regards to the steroid use, I asked Renard point blank, were you using steroids or were you using anything that altered your moods? We hear so much about rage.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

999.839

And he said he went to a doctor to treat low testosterone. He was prescribed pills and shots that he wasn't on steroids. So he denied that.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

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looking across at the desk at a police officer, which could be very intimidating. And this is a girl, Kaplan says, who was scared she had been caught.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

1052.369

You know, people fight. I think they knew, though, at this point they really didn't have a fighting chance because it was obvious that they had all at some point accepted responsibility and told police their roles in what happened and took the plea deal.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

1089.895

Well, with her mother, Maggie Fryer, Maggie says they have a good relationship, that they talk regularly. And Maggie is an advocate for Ellie. She believes Ellie was a victim in all of this and really believed that Ellie was abused. Her sister, Sierra, she didn't want to tell us too much. Now, whether or not she believes Ellie's abuse claims, she said she preferred not to talk about that as well.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

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But she said, my dad was a good dad. And she loved him very much and thought he was a great father to her. And she and Ellie are communicating. They talk to each other. They've been together. There are pictures of them together. So she told us it's sort of a complicated relationship, but she still, it seems, loves her sister and chooses to have a relationship with her.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

1166.187

I think so. It's a thought-provoking hour. And we, of course, present all the evidence that we could present on both sides. And it's just heartbreaking. It seems like Ellie, given her situation in life, her parents were split up. You know, that destroyed her. We know that because her sister said it. The whole family dynamic changed.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

1193.59

That said, she was very involved in planning, if not, according to police, possibly the mastermind of this whole operation to begin with. But Gavin and Russell were, you know, 19 and 22. They were young men now. who perhaps took advantage of a 15-year-old, as Aliza Kaplan points out, and maybe they were manipulating Ellie. So it'll leave you thinking. Indeed.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

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It was a good 20 miles or about 30 minutes drive from the Medford Police Department headquarters. So it was a difficult area to get to because it was sort of a hilly, remote, wooded area. But it wasn't really, you know, something that they thought out. Investigators said they drove around for quite some time trying to figure out what to do.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

169.927

They had the, you know, Aaron's body in the back of the car wrapped up in tarp. But finally, they figured it out. Detective Ford, he says, Russell led him right there. And then he said, OK, stop. He's like, OK, he's right down there over the ravine. And sure enough, the police look down, they see a tarp. wrapped up.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

188.153

And once they knew they had a body, once they knew they had located Aaron Fryer, they were able to take that picture of that crime scene and they showed Gavin, look, we know, you know, where Aaron is now. We have a crime scene set up. We're getting a lot of information. Russell is telling us his story. What's your story? So the investigation moved pretty quickly.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

210.097

And after that, they were all pointing the finger at each other and blaming one another.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

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Yeah, apparently they had, according to the police, different plans that they had written out. In fact, Russell seemed to be sort of the secretary of the group writing down and taking the notes of the plans. Ellie did, though, you know, in her handwriting, there's a note where she draws out the exact. It's a very small house where Aaron Fryer lived and Aaron was on the couch.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

253.793

when he was killed with the baseball bat. So Ellie had drawn the inside of the house, including where the motion detectors were, so that they knew where to go once, you know, Gavin and Russell were going to execute this plan. And there had been other plans, too, though. There was a plan, apparently, to chloroform Ellie's sisters, but also chloroform Aaron, and then...

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

276.932

They were going to take him in the car, in his car, and make it look like he crashed and had a car accident. And in fact, when they were going through with their planning, apparently there was a whole plan in motion the night before Aaron Fryer was actually killed where Gavin and Russell attempted to break into the house and unbeknownst to them,

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

300.636

Aaron's girlfriend was sleeping at the house on the time, and when they tried to break in, the girlfriend disrupted what was their plan to then kill Aaron. And investigators said there was even a plan at one point. They had talked about killing Russell's dad, and they wanted the Social Security benefits. And that morning after they killed Aaron Fryer, one of the things that police said

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

326.617

were able to glean from Russell and Gavin and Ellie was that they had gone to a Social Security office, and the idea was Russell was going to have Gavin become his rep payee so that he could then start getting the benefits signed over to him. And Once they get to the Social Security office, they realize this ain't going to work. And the Social Security office was closed.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

351.256

It was early in the morning, so they couldn't even do anything with that. So as you could see, they were kind of bumbling when it came down to what they were going to do after they got away with murder. And you said police spoke to Russell's dad? Police spoke to Russell's dad, and he said he wasn't concerned. He didn't think that Russell was actually ever going to try to kill him.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

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So, you know, he didn't feel like it was too much of a threat to him.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

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It appears they had planned probably for about three weeks or so beforehand, given, you know, the nature of the notes and the text exchanges back and forth between Ellie and Gavin. But we know that a few days before, based on Ellie's texts, that she had told Gavin that her father had sexually molested her.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

427.645

Now, you know, whether or not there's truth to that, we'll never know because Aaron isn't here to give his side of the story. You know, abuse claims are always very nuanced. But the police detectives, you know, they did look into that. They couldn't corroborate Ellie's stories of abuse. Her sisters were interviewed. They said their dad was a good guy.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

448.54

They didn't, you know, see any evidence or had never experienced any abuse, they said themselves. So, you know, it's hard to corroborate that. But the question was, was Ellie telling him that to give him the motive to go through with their plan?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

498.829

We want to believe the abuse victim as well. And, you know, police, when they interrogated Ellie, she did say she was being abused. However, when they went about going through with their investigation, Ellie had told apparently three friends that she was being abused, but she never mentioned being sexually abused. So it's a very hard claim to corroborate. That said, you know...

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

530.023

She's a 15-year-old girl. We don't know what her father was or wasn't doing. But, you know, her sisters did say that Ellie's abuse claim, they thought, came from the fact that Aaron Fryer had made it forbidden that Gavin and Ellie could be together. And so Ellie was taking that as, you know, punishment and saying she was being abused. That's what her sister said.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

570.931

Right. And in his interrogation with Detective Ford, he says, you know, and I was protecting my unborn child. You know, he really believed because Ellie told him that she thought she was pregnant. Now, there was surveillance footage of them going into a store right after they had murdered Aaron Fryer, and she did buy a pregnancy kit at that time. So,

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

595.836

You know, we don't know what she really thought at the time, if she really thought she was pregnant or not, though. You know, again, police thinking that she was using everything she could, according to police, to try to manipulate the situation. They view her as the mastermind of the plot.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

713.658

You know, you can only imagine, you know, the detectives told me that they were all outside in sort of a conference room area. And the minute he You know, Russell starts talking to the camera and putting on what they called like a show. They all stopped and were watching and it was like a monologue to the camera. And so it was very bizarre behavior.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

735.489

That video actually got released on YouTube and had gone viral, you know, after the fact. But that said, Russell had given them so much information at that point. And you could see he is a talker and he likes to tell people what he knows. And so he was really helpful to the police early on in their investigation and allowed them then to use what he was telling them.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

759.742

to go back to Gavin and to go back to Ellie to get their sides of the story as well on, you know, what happened that morning and in the aftermath after they had killed Aaron Fryer.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

778.136

It almost seemed like it was like the Joker out of the Batman movie or something, just the way he was talking. Absolutely, absolutely.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

827.682

Yes. In the state of Oregon, it is legal to interview a minor like that. Police, the fact that they didn't let her mom know that she was okay, Maggie Fryer was very upset about that. I mean, she said... You know, at the point when she made the 911 call to first alert police to the situation, she reported Ellie and Aaron as missing.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

853.175

And so as the day went on, she told us that nobody ever called to tell her that we at least have Ellie in custody. And Aliza Kaplan, who is Ellie's defense attorney now, believes it was excessive, that they allowed this interrogation to go on for 10 hours. You see Ellie a couple of times saying she's tired, she's yawning, she wants to lay down.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

875.253

They, in fact, bring her a blanket and they put it on the floor. Kaplan points out that this is a 15-year-old who at one point even says, I don't want to talk, but then the police managed to get her to keep talking. So Kaplan says, you know, there are some there's some issues with the way she was interrogated, that this is just a child.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

895.508

And, you know, she should have been given a little more time and perhaps had a representative or an attorney present when she was questioned.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

928.724

She's trained to talk to children. I should point that out. Stephanie Jackson has all the right credentials to be doing that kind of questioning. The other thing we should point out Stephanie Jackson recognized early on that Ellie was lying through a lot of the interrogation. Ellie, from the start, when they asked her, what's your name? Is your name Ellie Fryer? She was like, no.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

953.862

She said she was older than she actually was. She said she was 18. So she did lie a couple of times. So...

48 Hours

Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder

977.37

Well, you know, in the beginning, she pretended she had no idea what had happened and said she was just walking around with her friends and pretended she was concerned about her father. So she denied a lot in the beginning and she was lying from the start, according to the police. So Aliza Kaplan says, though, you can explain those lies away because here is a 15-year-old girl lying.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

1003.115

So how is Justine's family doing today? I mean, they're incredibly brave. And I would say the Vander Schutts are among the strongest family I've met because they are taking what is such a horrific loss and their pain, and they're turning it into something positive and good. They have, along with the prosecutor's office, enacted Justine's law to help

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

101.402

Now, what was really intriguing about this is that, you know, had he not been eight or 10 feet above ground on a horse, he probably might not have seen that. But I loved being able to do the interview on horseback because, you know, that's how he saw it. And it also provided for us a A little bit of a different element and a way into this investigation than we normally do.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

1030.086

educate teens in high schools across the state of California on teen dating violence, which unfortunately is becoming more prevalent, as we know, with social media. They're really trying to turn the page on something that was so tragic in their lives and really doing something powerful with it instead and really hopefully making an impact in a positive way to remember their daughter.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

1100.086

We're all parents of teenagers, tweenagers even here. And, you know, you have daughters. I have a son who's 16 and an older son as well. And it is something that, you know, you don't necessarily really think about, you know, them getting into a toxic relationship like this that could lead to something so horrific. But there are telltale signs and there are red flags.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

1124.452

And in hindsight, Justine's family, they're trying to point those out because there were signs of controlling behavior.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

192.15

Yes. Oh, my gosh. The horses are incredible creatures. They are... I think both of them were wild mustangs that had been, you know, tamed or broken. And the horse that Matt Scribner was riding, his name was Astro. And they were so... amazing to be on, but also so relaxed and chill, surprisingly, given that we had camera crews all around them.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

218.948

And also we use drones and we were a little concerned using the drones because, I don't know if you know this, but when they round up wild Mustangs, they fly helicopters over them. And so there was some concern that That the drone and that sound that they make, you know, that buzzing noise might freak the horses out a little bit. Thankfully, you know, we kept the drones far away from them.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

244.583

The horses seemed to be pretty fine with it. And so we got the footage that we needed and we were able to do the interview and it all came out great. Yeah.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

373.444

Yeah, they were very close friends. They lived together, as you said. And according to investigators, there was some history there with Brandon not liking Justine. And also, according to Christine, Justine's sister, Justine had believed that Brandon had been cheating on his girlfriends in the past, so she didn't like him either.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

394.277

So, you know, there definitely was this tense and toxic relationship in this sort of between Danny and Brandon and Justine being the one in the middle. According to Danny's testimony, he, at one point, was so heartbroken because he believed that Justine was cheating on him, he was thinking of taking his own life. But Brandon said, why kill yourself? Why don't you kill her instead?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

426.148

So that's sort of where this...

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

592.628

Wow. As you heard there, Brandon sort of casting himself as a hero. The prosecution felt this was sort of a telling reaction because if Brandon was truly so fearful of Danny that he felt powerless to be able to stop him or to go for help, he should have cast himself as the victim in the letter. And his narrative was sort of like, I'm the avenger in her death, right?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

618.713

And, you know, I'm going to do right by you. But yet he was witnessing her take her last breaths. He did nothing to stop that from happening. Absolutely.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

633.103

Yeah, Jeff Reinach, I mean, he is a skilled interrogator. And he told us that he usually has people write a letter to to the victims at the end or to their families. And so this is sort of part of his strategy, I guess, in a way to maybe see what they reveal, you know, in writing.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

652.125

And he said that, you know, it was almost as if he was trying to rewrite, as if Brandon was trying to rewrite his role in what happened.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

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The Vandershoots did everything to include Danny. He had a key to the house. He was welcomed into their home whenever he wanted to come in. Don gave him a job at the Mercedes-Benz dealership where he worked. So he hooked him up.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

777.264

It is absolutely chilling. It's chilling. It is chilling. And I said to Guyane, like, I kept looking at his eyes, trying to read his body language, trying to get a sense of, you know, Where was his mindset? Like, what was he possibly thinking, being able to do that, go in front of the media the way he was, holding up her picture and saying, I did everything for that girl.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

803.294

And let's not forget, he had dinner with the Vandershoots on the night that he was planning to then take their daughter into that forested area and kill her. The level of... of depravity and sickness is just so outrageous.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

82.756

Yes, yeah, absolutely. And Matt Scribner, you know, he was key to the testimony in this case by giving investigators that timeline of when he saw this freshly dug hole and then saying, going back later and then seeing a mattress in debris covering that hole.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

957.324

I mean, he's serving a life sentence now. He wanted his life sentence. thrown out and to be resentenced as what they call an accessory after the fact. So basically saying, you know, I didn't mean to do this. I didn't take part in it. I just was there and it happened. Right.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice

984.536

Seven times in seven years, they've been to court. You know, they took a plea deal because they thought that would be the easiest way to not have to relive the horrific details of their daughter's murder. And yet now they're having to do that over and over again.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1018.765

Also, in regards to the steroid use, I asked Renard point blank, were you using steroids or were you using anything that altered your moods? We hear so much about roid rage. And he said he went to a doctor to treat low testosterone. He was prescribed pills and shots that he wasn't on steroids. So he denied that.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

104.523

And you might hear the dogs barking in the background. And the dogs barking because there are a lot of people in the neighborhood making sure things are OK.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1054.793

Usually there's a more clear cut finish or ending to the story. In this case, he was acquitted. And I think the reason is because, again, jurors found reasonable doubt. Consultant Lisa Andrews again told us this all came down to the prosecution not proving their case in court. They didn't have enough evidence. And, you know, the jury paid attention. They did their jobs.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

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They couldn't connect the dots in this case.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1124.448

And it's interesting. I did. I did ask him, too, about that, because his training, you would think, is something that also would kick in that when you see somebody pointing a gun at you as a officer, you know, law enforcement, you're trained to deescalate the situation. I asked him about that when he said his training kicked in because he saw her finger was right on the trigger.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1147.302

And he knew he had to get the gun out of her fingers because he knew that if there was any sort of pressure on that trigger, it would go off. And in fact, that's what happened.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1181.77

Yeah. You know, it's always heartbreaking when you cover these stories. In this case, though, looking at Petrina, that's Patricia's daughter, and she looks just like her mother. I mean, they look like they could have been sisters, right? And they had such a close bond, such a close relationship. And Petrina talked about how much hope Patricia had when she married Renard.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1207.117

Renard was her first true love, her first marriage, her first house that they bought together. I mean, she viewed this as sort of her happily ever after. So it's just such a senseless tragedy. And, and Petrina said she had not cried. And, and in the middle of doing the interview with us, she started to cry and she was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I'm crying.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1230.389

I think it was sort of cathartic for her, you know, having the resolution, even though it didn't go the way she thought it would go. She at least was sort of dealing with the emotions finally.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1287.116

And then what about Renard? How is Renard doing today? Trying to pick up the pieces of his life, too. As we said, he's mourning the loss of Patricia as well. He still says she was the love of his life. He's spending a lot of time with his grandkids, doing a lot with his church within his community. Renard is trying to turn what was a horrible tragedy now into doing positive work.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1308.945

And he's volunteering most weekends for an organization that is near and dear to him called Hoodies of Healing. It's an organization that helps to feed the homeless. And so he's very involved with that.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

1341.021

Thanks, Anne-Marie. Thank you.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

16.541

Starfleet is here to make sure no one commits murder.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

171.706

That's our job to do that, to present both sides of the story. I think what the challenge was for the authorities was to figure out who the real aggressor was in this situation, who had the finger on the trigger when the gun went off. And that camera, by the way, right over the refrigerator, that's because Patricia Spivey's father was living with them and he has onset dementia.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

196.167

So therefore, they always had the camera rolling just to keep track. His room was not far off from the kitchen. So that's why that camera was specifically placed there. But that footage gave us sort of a window into the the moments leading up to what happened that night. And again, it comes down to we know when things happen because you even hear the shots based on that security footage.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

222.045

But what we don't know is how that happened and who really had their finger on the trigger in those moments. Mm-hmm.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

278.783

Well, you know, what Renard told us, because he did agree to an interview, you know, after he was acquitted, he thought that night there had been some tension building in the relationship.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

290.308

And also on that security footage, you can hear it sounds like at one point where Patricia, before she went to bed, you hear in the background, Patricia said over and over again as if she's upset with him about something. but we don't know what exactly. And so in that time, something happened. Renard said,

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

316.607

He picked up her phone after she went to bed from her bed stand, went to the closet, looked at the phone, and that's when she confronted him, he says, with the gun at the front of the closet. And that's when he got very nervous because he knew it was fully charged and it doesn't have a safety mechanism on it. And if the finger is on the trigger, it can go off.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

345.078

So that's when he said he tussled with her to get control of the gun and the shots went off.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

428.225

Yeah. System disarmed. Ready to arm.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

444.744

So we need to get back to your wife to continue the compressions. All right, ma'am. I mean, did he explain that? So, Henry, yes, the operator is asking on the 911 call if he is in the bedroom. But he replies with yes, even though we see in the security footage from their kitchen that he is now walking to the garage. And he said it was to open the door for the first responders.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

477.327

So he's now removed himself from doing CPR on Patricia at that moment. And he didn't tell the operator that at the time. And it's important to remember, he himself had been shot in the leg. So we know that at that point, there was some trauma. And so he is giving her CPR. And he said... He felt he needed to go open the garage door to allow the first responders to enter.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

508.207

So that's how he explained it to us. He was like, I did what I thought I needed to do to best get the help that she would need.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

538.08

seems to carry the burden of what happened on that night. And, you know, that he feels her loss. I mean, he says to this day he still loves Patricia very deeply. And I think what, you know, is most troubling for him is knowing that it was his gun that was charged and on the nightstand that ultimately led to this tragic death. he did want to talk. He wanted to tell us his side of the story.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

565.619

And he wanted to, you know, I guess somewhat clear his name because with a lot of these cases, this happened right before COVID and COVID interrupted the legal process. So this case was put on hold for four years. So in the public eye, he was looked at perhaps as being guilty, even though he hadn't had his day in court yet. And he was eventually acquitted.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

664.948

It seems like a basic... necessity when it comes to figuring out whose finger was on the trigger. But it was his former service weapon. It was always right by the bed, charged, which in itself is the problem here. You know, this was a Smith & Wesson service gun and the design of it, it doesn't have the typical safety mechanisms.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

689.307

And defense attorney Dick DeGaran showed us how it could go off over and over again because it automatically recharges. Which, you know, is so scary when you think about that. But again, we don't know. The defense argued that the state never proved whose hand again was on the trigger. So that really came down to being crucial at trial and presented reasonable doubt for the jury.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

721.081

which I thought was surprising. Right. We poured over the medical examiner's report with CBS News consultant Lisa Andrews. She looked it all over for us. That was key to this case. And the medical examiner's report ruled it was a homicide, but What was unclear was the number of entry and exit wounds. They couldn't determine the amount of shots fired. Was it two shots?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

773.242

Dick DeGaran showed us with the actual weapon, that Smith & Wesson revolver, he reenacted what Renard told him happened on that night and the trajectory of the bullets. He kind of did this whole demonstration with me showing how they fought over the gun, how he was holding her arm, and the way the trajectory of the bullet would have entered her arm into her side and then hit her chest.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

801.775

Also, the defense said the number of shots really didn't disprove that it was an accident, given that this is a gun that is charged and can continually be fired and keep going. The prosecution, though, was arguing that it's hard to believe that multiple shots are fired, that it is an accident.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

821.184

One more thing, though, what was interesting, what you mentioned in the hour, is there was a fourth sound as well on the surveillance footage. It was unclear if it was another shot. The question, according to the state, was could it have possibly been Renard shooting his leg at that time, a fourth shot. But there was no proof of that. And the sound was so indistinct.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

85.066

Yes, and we're just a couple of towns over from the Palisades fire and all around me, a lot of people have lost a lot. So my thoughts are with them. If, you know, there are also some technical difficulties as well in recording this because with winds the way we've had them for the last couple of days, if I freeze every now and again, I apologize. Right.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

978.395

The daughter talked about how Renard seemed to be controlling. Also, Patricia's cousin, Sybil Shepherd, who she was very close with, talked about Renard's alleged controlling behavior. Patricia had this annual cruise that she would do with Sybil.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial

997.321

And after a time, Sybil said it became increasingly more difficult because Renard was always checking on them and just controlling and not letting them have their fun. And Renard denied that. You know, he said, I let her go on the cruise. I let her, you know, she went on multiple cruises after we got married. So he denied any controlling behavior.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Facing a Monster

1042.33

So let's talk about Lori's nephew, Dustin. He was the one who helped her move into that house to start her life over again. I want to share a clip of Dustin who really talks about how Lori's murder impacted his life. How do you think the murder of your aunt impacted you?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Facing a Monster

108.941

I just want to remind you, to all of our listeners, if you haven't listened to the 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio just below this episode in your podcast feed. Go take a listen, then come back and join us for our conversation. So, Anne-Marie, this story is a little bit unusual in that we start with a survivor's story instead of a murder.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Facing a Monster

1115.572

You heard him say that. it made him hard to trust once again in his own life. And I think CeCe was deeply affected by that as well, right? That level of trust disappeared for her. Let's talk about how important it was to hear her at the trial, because the prosecution fought to have both CeCe and Sarah Balmer testify at Doyle's trial to show that he had a history of abusing women. Now,

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Facing a Monster

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The judge allowed for that in this case.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Facing a Monster

1183.209

And did CeCe tell you what it was like to be in that courtroom, to look at Doyle back, you know, seeing him sit across from her, look at him in the eye?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Facing a Monster

1203.539

I think it was Laurie's sister described him as choir boy. Right. I thought that was so that was such a perfect description because he had the collared shirt and the blue sweater. Yeah, totally.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Facing a Monster

1220.258

On January 26, 2006, the jury found Doyle guilty of second degree murder. He received the maximum sentence of 25 years to life with the possibility of parole. So I'm curious, why wasn't he found guilty of first degree murder? I mean, you know, they go for second degree instead of first degree.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Facing a Monster

129.116

Can you tell us a little bit about that decision of starting with CeCe Opanowski's story and how she survived that frightening attack by Doyle back in 1996 when she was just 18 years old?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Facing a Monster

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Not that far away. I know these these are the stories. They're so hard to tell, but they're so important because, you know, if telling Cece's story can save one life from. potentially a domestic violence attack, I'm sure she will feel good that she was able to come forward and tell her story.

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I want to play a clip from the show where Cece talks about why she's speaking out now and what she hopes our audience will take away from hearing her story.

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And I know it took so much courage for her to come forward. So we have to thank her for telling her story and telling it to us. And we should remind our listeners and our viewers, if you or if someone you know is a victim of domestic violence, contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline. That number is 1-800-799-7233. Anne-Marie, wonderful reporting. Great to connect with you on this story.

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Thanks so much for sharing it with us. Thank you. And if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thank you for listening.

48 Hours

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Speaking of, you know, how that attack took place, let's talk about her friend, Shannon, who was so instrumental. I mean, truly, perhaps saved her life. So Shannon was calling Cece over and over again. And when Cece wasn't picking up, the alarm bells were going off with her. Something wasn't right. And so then she finally gets through. Cece answers the phone and says,

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She hears Cece, you know, putting away the dishes and the dishwasher, but they're having this somewhat stilted conversation, it sounds like. And she got to the point where she said, you know, is Sean there with you now? And Cece, you know, was able to tell her, yes, he is here now. I just wanted to know about their relationship now. I mean, are Cece and Shannon still friends? Are they in touch?

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So in the hour, CeCe talked about when the police did arrive at her house, she thought that she would then be protected from Doyle. Instead, she said she didn't feel safe because she said they put her in the backseat of that same squad car with Doyle. And then later, she said they questioned them together in the same room. I mean, how unusual was that back in 1996?

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And everybody has learned to treat domestic violence very seriously because we know how much these things can escalate, as it did in this case with Sean Doyle. Now, CeCe didn't want to relive the trauma by testifying against Doyle, but... He struck a deal and he received a sentence of three years probation. But then in 2000, Doyle violently attacked then 23-year-old Sarah Vollmer.

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Thank goodness her mom walked in at that time. Absolutely. Absolutely saved her life. I'm curious then why Doyle was able to get yet another three years probation for that second attack instead of facing a more serious sentence.

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I know. To me, it's like, you know, if the pattern of behavior is there, he's done this before, it's escalated, and had her mom not walked in when she did... Sarah Vollmer might not be here today. Thankfully, that's not the case.

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Do authorities suspect, though, I mean, given that pattern, that Doyle perhaps had more victims than Lori, CeCe and Sarah? Do authorities suspect?

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They don't. As we learn in the hour, Sean Doyle's assaults tragically would lead to murder. And when we get back, we're going to dig into Lori Leonard's case and the lasting impact her death has had on both her family and CeCe. Stay tuned.

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Welcome back to Postmortem. So let's talk about Lori Leonard's case. On May 5th, 2005, Lori's sister Jennifer reported to police that Lori was missing after she failed to answer her phone all day and she never returned home after saying that she was going to pick up Yankees tickets in Albany. Now, Lori never ended up making it to Albany to pick up those tickets.

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Her body was discovered three months later in that toolbox floating in an upstate New York canal. Police were able to link Doyle to the crime from a key that was found in his car that matched that toolbox lock, as well as materials that were found in his home, including duct tape, And the bandanas, like the ones that were used to bind and gag Lori, just horrific.

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Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm CBS News correspondent Natalie Morales, stepping in as host today to speak to 48 Hours correspondent Anne-Marie Green about her report on Sean Doyle, who we know assaulted at least two known victims before murdering Lori Leonard back in 2005.

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Jennifer immediately suspected that Sean Doyle was involved, and that was Lori's ex-boyfriend at the time. But Doyle's friend, Dorothy, was absolutely convinced of his innocence. Why do you think she believed him?

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It's the upstate New York.

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Key witness for the prosecution. So let's talk about some of the most poignant interviews that you did with Lori's family, including her two sons. Just broke my heart watching those. They're now grown up, but of course, they still feel her loss very deeply. And Anne-Marie, it's clear.

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I mean, it's almost 20 years later, but everyone you talked with in the hour, everybody still feels the pain of losing Lori. Yeah.

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One of the survivors, Cece Opanowski, has broken her decades-long silence, and she is telling her story publicly for the first time to 48 Hours. Anne-Marie, thanks so much for talking with us today. It's interesting to be on this other side of the microphone right now. You're in the hot seat today. I am.

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This is a single mom, so the loss of the central figure to those boys in their life at that young age and to grow up with those memories is just... horrific to think about. I know how hard it is. And I know it was hard for you to report on this as well.

48 Hours

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What about the steroids? Were you taking steroids at that time?

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She is sitting at the table at one point. You walk over to her. What happens?

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Where do you keep your gun?

48 Hours

TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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So it's on your side of the bed?

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And is it always loaded?

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Don't you talk somebody down, like as your police training is to de-escalate the situation?

48 Hours

TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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So you got shot first?

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Then what happened?

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That wasn't you shooting the fourth shot to then have a cover-up story. No, ma'am.

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He's on the phone with 911, holding the towel on his leg.

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TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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Did you intentionally shoot your wife?

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TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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Her body, as I understand.

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Where did it end up?

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And why? How did it end up here?

48 Hours

TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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No, your fingers weren't on the trigger.

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Are you saying Ezra Washington, then, when he testified because he was a key witness for the prosecution, was he lying when he talked about those phone calls?

48 Hours

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Had there been conversations about separation or divorce between you and Patricia?

48 Hours

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She hadn't talked about leaving you? No.

48 Hours

TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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When he told you she didn't make it, had to be very tough to hear that. It was. It was. But you held it together.

48 Hours

TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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At that point, had you already gotten an attorney?

48 Hours

TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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What was that like for you now being behind bars for somebody who had been on the other side of the law for so long?

48 Hours

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But yet we know on that night, somebody went to bed angry.

48 Hours

TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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When you walk in that door, do the memories come flooding right back?

48 Hours

TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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How would you describe Renard Spivey?

48 Hours

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At the time of Patricia's death, I understand you were still taping the Justice with Christina Perez show.

48 Hours

TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial

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You recognized him right away from his time.

48 Hours

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What did she complain about with him?

48 Hours

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In the days leading up to the shooting, did it seem like things had intensified? Yes.

48 Hours

First Love, Then Murder

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Natalie Morales reports, first love, then murder.

48 Hours

First Love, Then Murder

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Ellie Fryer will be eligible for parole in 2032. She will be 30 years old.

48 Hours

First Love, Then Murder

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Join me Tuesday for Postmortem from 48 Hours, where we'll dive even deeper into today's episode and answer your questions about the case.

48 Hours

Deputy Spivey on Trial

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Section 31 is just a place for people to bend the rules.

48 Hours

Deputy Spivey on Trial

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What a cute idea. This is chaos. Let's get messy.

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If you were on the jury, what would be the most important evidence in this case? Chat now with the 48 Hours team on Facebook and X. I've never stopped having hope and have faith.

48 Hours

Deputy Spivey on Trial

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Natalie Morales reports. Deputy Spivey on trial.

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Deputy Spivey on Trial

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Join me Tuesday for Postmortem from 48 Hours, where we'll dive even deeper into today's episode and answer your questions about the case.

48 Hours

Deputy Spivey on Trial

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Gather your people. We're going to need every one of them.