Morgan Lavoie
Appearances
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
That's something that really does... sort of serve as a heartbeat through rinse, the consideration of the people along that are involved in the processes, like the fact that your valets are W2 employees and the fact that you actually are supporting local mom and shop businesses, because especially like you think about the time and the influences, you mentioned Uber and Lyft.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
Around the same time, people are getting really interested in marketplaces like Airbnb. And so I could see a world in which Rinse is a marketplace that helps people find those mom and pop shops. Or you could have decided we're going to have Rinse facilities and we'll own the space and the machines and things like that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
But I love that you've kept this through line of just really considering the industry at large and the people involved to pull it off. It really shows.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
Yeah, that's great. Make mom proud. That's going to be our KPR, our key performance indicator for next year. I love that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
Speaking of KPIs for next year, we're approaching the end of 2024. This is a time where people, businesses are making their goals for next year. Can you talk a little bit about how you set goals as a company and use what your goals are for 2025 as an example of that decision-making process?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
I love how you take this sort of, there's a lot to do, but we don't have to do a lot and give people a framework that they can always sort of do a gut check of like, does this support the overarching goal? And we had the co-founder of Club Penguin come on the show a while ago.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
And he said that they had a similar framework where, you know, the company was big and they were selling to Disney and they were getting invited to all of these conferences. And they were like, wouldn't eight-year-olds care about this? And that was sort of their their pillar. And so if an eight year old wouldn't care about it, they just sort of didn't do it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
And that was how they filtered like there's a lot to do. But what are the things that we're actually going to do and what should we be putting our focus on? And I know for for 2025, in fact, you may be announcing it today as we're as we're talking, but you're doing a partnership with Barrier Free Living. Can you talk a little bit about what that is?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
I do think that that is such a smart way to provide that social impact because I remember even when I was going to college, my mom moving me in my freshman year, the first thing she said was, you have to make your bed because that's what makes you feel like you're having this fresh start in your home. That's really amazing.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
I'm sure between your social impact work and the growth and profitability goals you have for next year, 2025 is going to be another great year for Rinse. And Again, like this is the time of year where businesses are making their goals for the year. Individuals are also making their goals for the year. We hear from a lot of listeners who are like, I've always wanted to start a business.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
It's 2025, the year that I actually do it. Can you give advice for a founder in those shoes or a would-be founder about how to know when it's the right time to make the leap?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
It's Morgan, the EP of the show filling in this week for Nicole while she's out on mat leave. A few weeks ago, Nicole did an episode about old school businesses that are finally having their day in the sun and getting real props for their recurring revenue. Businesses like plumbing companies, pest control, and laundry.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
Yeah. And what about founders or potential founders who are in discussion with friends about starting a business together? I know that this is, of course, something that you did with James. You had known each other since college. And I think people worry if I start a business with a friend, how do I make sure that neither suffers?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
The friendship doesn't suffer, but also the business doesn't suffer because of the friendship. So what advice would you give to friends who are considering starting something together?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
According to data from PitchBook, private equity investors have bought over 800 plumbing, electrical, and HVAC companies since 2022. Today, I'm talking to someone who saw this potential long ago, Ajay Prakash, co-founder and CEO of Rinse, a company that is building the first national brand in laundry and dry cleaning.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
Yeah, that makes so much sense. And that is something we've talked about a bit on the show. We do both business content, personal finance. And like you're saying about a marriage, it's so important to, once you feel like you're ready to put a ring on it, lock it in. It's like, how old do you want to be when you retire? What are your expectations about what our lifestyle will be like in retirement?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
Similar to like, do you want this to be a unicorn? How long can you go without taking a salary? It's really helpful to be on the same page there. And so let's talk to some... not would-be founders, but founders, you say that one of the priorities for you is ruthless prioritization. Can you explain what that is and why that's important?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
We end all of our episodes by asking our guests for one tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. That is such a good one. But if there's any other piece of advice that you could leave our listeners with on career or business, could be anything, fundraising, starting a business, what's one tip that you would leave listeners with today?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
And you might be thinking, how excited could someone really get about running a laundry business? The answer will surprise you. My fiance, Jack, bought and operated a laundry business in college with some of his friends. One of his partners in that business, Eitan, hi Eitan, went to work at, you guessed it, Rinse after college.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
And you should see how excited Jack and Eitan get when they talk about laundry even now. So in my conversation with Ajay, I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. And I have to admit, I'm kind of excited about laundry now. Ajay and I chat about how to find, test, and scale these old school businesses that are ripe for innovation. But we also go beyond that. Ajay is a really excellent leader.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
You can tell that just by listening to how thoughtful he is about how he manages his company and team. And as we're staring down the final days of 2024, I wanted to get some advice. Ajay gives a framework for founders on how to set goals for your company in a meaningful and achievable way.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
And also advice for anyone who's thinking 2025 might be the year they finally take the leap and start their own company. Here's our conversation. Ajay Prakash, welcome to Money Rehab.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
So happy to have you here. Of course, we have to start with the origin story of Rince. Can you take us through it?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
So you knew that you wanted to apply innovation and disruption to an old school business. And we actually did an episode about this on the show a couple of weeks ago because we've been seeing a lot of business media recently really glorifying some of those kind of more traditional businesses. Like there's a lot of reporting around is the plumber your millionaire next door type of thing.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
But businesses like plumbing, pest control, laundromats. And I think part of the reason why there's this glorification happening in the media is because there's more PE activity around these types of businesses. So is this what you were seeing 11, almost 12 years ago that made you excited about an idea like Rinse?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
I love that, that sort of check-in of, are you still excited about this? Are you still excited about this? And so you went through that process of saying, what am I good at? And then you mentioned another question you asked yourself, which is so important. And it's that question of like, is this something that's needed? Like, what do people need? And I think that...
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
That can be an easy trap for entrepreneurs to fall into. If they're just really excited about an idea, they feel like they want to do something, but actually testing whether or not something is needed, their ideal customer profile is somebody who actually needs this service. And so you did a test with 11 friends. Was there anything about that test that surprised you?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
Yeah. Yeah. Debate debatably. One of the more important steps was rinse always called rinse, or was there another idea for the name of the business that you tossed around?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
That makes so much sense. And I'm so glad that you did that. And I love that you brought up Lyft because I was wondering if this story would go like, we considered Rince with a Y, we considered Rince without an I, we considered Rince with no E at the end. So that's the origin story of, Fast forward 11, almost 12 years.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
Advice for Disrupting an Industry and Starting Your First Business with Ajay Prakash
I'd love for you to sort of paint a picture for the listeners about what the service actually looks like. So I'm in a room where I can see my laundry hamper right now. I have a puppy. We went to the dog park today. We both came back muddy and disgusting. If I want to use rinse, can you tell me about the journey that my now muddy pair of jeans will go on?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
Yeah. Yeah. During COVID, I watched TV shows that got really hyped up that I had missed, like Game of Thrones and I watched Breaking Bad. I had sort of missed the train on that by many years, but I had heard of it and I knew so many people were big fans. And what was so shocking to me at first was that people just sort of accepted the premise.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
that somebody got a terminal illness and had to cook meth in order to provide for his own healthcare costs. It's crazy. If the show were to take place in Canada, it would have been a very boring show. It would have been one episode and he would have got chemo and it would have been fine.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
So because this outrage does seem to be across the aisle, can we expect a solution from the government to fix the broken healthcare system?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
And lastly, can we expect a solution from the healthcare industry and UnitedHealthcare itself? I'll leave you with an excerpt from Gia's piece.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
He was also the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, the health insurance company with the highest rate of claim denials in the industry. So Jia, at what point did you think to yourself, I have to write about this. That's a good question. That's Gia Tolentino. Gia is a staff writer at The New Yorker and the New York Times bestselling author of a collection of essays titled Trick Mirror.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
In an interview on the podcast, We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle, Doyle said that if the news is ever dark or complicated, she asks herself her own version of what would Jesus do, which is what will Gia write about this? And I find myself doing the same thing in moments like this. Gia wrote a piece in The New Yorker about what Brian Thompson's death means to America.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
It's an amazing piece, and I linked it in the show notes so you can read it if you haven't already. Here she is on why she wrote it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
comments that people were posting before the Facebook was shut down that are like burned into your mind?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
merchants of violence in some way and in the way that that was just instantly flipped back onto this news story was so striking thompson's death his murder is a difficult topic to cover it's difficult because there are two truths that feel mutually exclusive brian thompson should not have been killed and the health care system in the united states is broken
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
If you acknowledge that second truth, some say it's disrespectful to Thompson's family or it validates this really violent act. And I do understand that criticism. But I think that reaction comes from an assumption. The assumption is this. Anyone who is talking about the flaws in the healthcare system right now is arguing that the ends justify the means.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
That in this case, the ends, people looking critically at the broken healthcare system in the United States, is justifying the murder of Brian Thompson. I want to be clear, that's not what I'm doing today. I'm going to be talking about the healthcare industry, what the stakes are, and how we can have a better system. But I'm not debating whether the ends justify the means.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
I'll tell you personally, I think Thompson's death is terrible and tragic. But what I'm trying to do, and I hope you'll do with me, is separate the ends and the means. to acknowledge that killing is always wrong, but also to look at how we got here, how we might be able to fix what is clearly very broken in the healthcare system.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
So let's rewind. Let's talk about what we know about UnitedHealthcare.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
UnitedHealthcare is part of the health insurance conglomerate UnitedHealth Group, which is the fifth largest company in the United States by revenue and the largest insurance company in the United States. It's also the largest provider of Medicare Advantage, which is a type of health insurance you might get if you're over 65.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
United Health Group is a public company and their stock is up 63% compared to its price five years ago. In Gia's piece, she notes that United Healthcare has the highest claim denial rate of any private insurance company. It denies 32% of claims. Claim denial is a profitability driver for healthcare companies. When Thompson was killed, he was actually headed into an investor conference.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
In that conference, claim denial rate was likely going to be a topic of discussion. In fact, according to Vox, the most watched number on every earnings call for an insurance company is the, quote, medical loss ratio, which is the percentage of premiums that are spent on paying out claims. Shareholders want to see that number low. The patients, of course, would want to see that number high.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
If the number is higher than expected, the share price of the stock can suffer. Jia also points out that one driver of UnitedHealth's high claim denials is a software they use called NaviHealth, which is an algorithm that provides care recommendations for patients, including when care is no longer necessary after a surgery or illness.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
In 2023, a class action lawsuit alleges that Navi Health has a known error rate of 90%. This means that many people have had to face the choice of either going without care that they, by statistic likelihood, actually need or pay out of pocket. In the class action lawsuit, there are many stories of people going without the care they need and dying shortly thereafter.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
Today, the parent company UnitedHealth Group is valued at $560 billion. UnitedHealth Care made $281 billion in revenue in 2023. The outstanding amount of medical debt in the United States is $220 billion. Medical debt is in fact the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
The American Journal of Public Health found that 66% of bankruptcies in the United States were due to medical problems. I should note here that we do have resources for anyone struggling with medical debt, and I've linked those in the show notes. The fact that claim denials are so common makes this a blatant socioeconomic inequality issue.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
If it costs more money to heal, to get care, to live, wealthier Americans can live longer, healthier lives than poor Americans.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
Yeah. Yeah. I thought one of the really interesting things that you said about that, but also how people are seeing it the same way from both sides of the aisle is everyone's pointing at this and saying social decay is but the origin they're sort of pointing at different places. Like some people are pointing at the killing itself.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
Some people are pointing at all of the comments online that seemed heartless. And some people are pointing upstream and talking more about the structural violence that has happened long before.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
Acknowledging this head-on pushes the conversation back into the feedback loop of criticism. But again, I think it's perfectly acceptable in this complicated time we're living in to feel the weight of Bretton Johnson's death and the weight of the harm people have endured through not having access to affordable health care.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
So that's what people are feeling right now. And it's notably been across the aisle.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Killing of Brian Thompson and the Human Cost of Healthcare with Jia Tolentino
it's morgan the ep of the show filling in for nicole this week while she's on mat leave today we're going to talk about health insurance we're talking about this today because on december 4th brian thompson was murdered in midtown manhattan at 6 44 a.m he was 50 years old he played golf and wordle He had two sons.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Just wasn't.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
So but pre-drag race, it sounds like you were not making enough money from drag that you could live on. You were like working in coffee shops, doing other things.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Is that right? And then when you were in L.A., you got a shitty apartment so that you could save for a second audition tape for drag race, right?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
So you did your audition tape for season two. You auditioned every year until season five.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so I also read it in your memoir that you said that early on you were like, I'm going to be famous. And when I'm famous, all my problems are going to go away. Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
The folly of youth. And so when you did get cast, did you think this is it? I'm going to be famous and all of my problems are going to go away?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so how have you had to think about redefining success for yourself so that you can feel like it's not tied to fame, but it's tied to maybe something that is self-worth, happiness.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
It's exactly like the movie The Substance.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Before you got that call saying that you were on Drag Race, were you stressed about money?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. And so do you think if you hadn't have gotten on Drag Race, would you have kept doing drag?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
When I first moved to New York after college, it took me a long time to get a job. And I did the thing where I sold my car to move here and moved with one suitcase and was like, this is the total amount of money that I have in my life. Yeah. And I just watched it go down while I was trying to get a job.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And when I finally got a job at iHeartRadio, I didn't have enough money in my bank account to pay for Subway fare. So I walked to work every morning. Yeah. Thank you. Do you have any stories like that where you're like, I just got to fucking make it work?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Can you tell me about drag musical?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Let's start with where did this idea come from? How long have you been working on it?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
My God.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah, how hard could it be?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah, you did it and people love it. And so you didn't just write it, you also star in it. Can you tell us a little bit about what the show is about?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. What would seeing something like that have meant to you when you were 10?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. Yeah. One of the parts of your memoir that really made me feel for little Alaska was when your mom was like, don't play like a girl.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. That's really hard. That's really hard. And then you're also, it struck me that you're also doing this show and then the election happens. So do you feel like the stakes are higher now somehow or do you try to keep it in its own creative bubble?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
I was reading the comments of some of the posts on the drag, the musical Instagram account and just so many people being like, hi from Minnesota. Like I took my kids when we were visiting New York. It meant so much to them. And it's amazing. It must feel so good to hear stories like that and see how it's how it's resonating because it is such a light.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Hi, Money Rehabbers. It's Morgan, the EP of the show, guest hosting Money Rehab this week while Nicole is on maternity leave. Today, I'm going to be talking about the business of drag. This is an episode I've wanted to do for so long because one, I'm just a big fan of drag, but also because it's one of those jobs where I've just always wondered how people actually make money doing it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
I would love that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. Because again, it's like more people need to see it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Before I let you go, I would love to play a game with you.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
It's Never Have I Ever, but money themed.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And we're not drinking. So we'll just put our hands up.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so if you have done something, you put a finger down. Oh, okay. And if you haven't, you keep it up.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
So never have I ever split the check on a first date. If you have done it, put your finger down. I have done it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Never have I ever maxed out a credit card. I don't think I've done that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Never have I ever won a cash prize.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
So you put a finger down. Okay. Never have I ever invested in the stock market.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
You haven't? We got to get you in there. Okay. We're going to make you rich.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Never have I ever given a big gift to a friend or family member.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. Okay. Put that finger down. Never have I ever had credit card debt.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. What kind of debt have you had?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I've had credit card debt either.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Never have I ever played the lottery. I have.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Scratchers absolutely count.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Okay, perfect. Never have I ever been fired from a job. I haven't.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
What's that story?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
You were like, fair enough.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
I mean, was it worth it?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
We end all of our episodes by asking our guests for a money tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. And so it can be anything about something, a lesson that you've learned, something that you use to save, negotiate, make money, shop, anything.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
It's like when Tiffany Haddish re-wore a dress that she wore to an award show when she was hosting SNL. She was like, I need to get my money's worth.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
I love that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And it saves money. Good for the environment. I'm sold.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Today I'm talking to one of the most iconic drag queens ever, Alaska. She goes by Alaska or Alaska Thunderfuck. And so today I'm just going to stick with Alaska because I don't know how many times I can say Thunderfuck without the show getting canceled to already feels like I'm kind of pushing it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Alaska grew up in Erie, Pennsylvania and worked in Pittsburgh and LA before getting cast on the Olympics of Drag, the show RuPaul's Drag Race. Alaska was a runner-up on season five and then went on to win RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars season two. If you don't know Alaska, you just simply have to. Her memoir, My Name's Yours, What's Alaska?, is a good place to start.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
She has a huge fan base, 1.8 million followers on Instagram alone. And she just does a zillion different things from performing to her drag race rewatch podcast, Race Chasers. She makes music. She tours. She has a fragrance. And now she has a show in New York City. Alaska co-wrote and stars in Drag the Musical, which if you're in New York, you definitely should see.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And she tells me a little bit more about it in this conversation. Today, we talk about the business of drag through her story, from how she got started to redefining success after Drag Race, how she kept going when she had no money, and yes, how drag queens actually make money. Here's Alaska. Alaska. Welcome to Money Rehab.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
The pleasure is all ours. I'm so excited to talk to you about the business of drag really through your story. So let's start with you. Do you remember the first drag performance you ever saw?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Do you remember what she sang and what she was wearing?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so this was in Pittsburgh.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
That's a plot twist. That is what I thought. West Virginia, okay.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so when you saw that, did you think, I want to do that immediately? No. No.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And did you?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so this happened in West Virginia, maybe. It did not happen in Erie, where you grew up. Not a lot of drag representation in Erie.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. But even though you felt at the time that could never be me, you had an early interest in style. I read in your memoir that you would make cat woman suits out of trash bags and you would dye your contacts with food coloring.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
So when then did you for the first time think like, I can do that. Like I could do drag.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so how long after that did you perform as Alaska for the first time?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
The fishbowl?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And you did?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so I love that you knew what your name would be as soon as you encountered it, which was a weed strain, right?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Love that. And so there was never another contender. You were like...
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
So tell me about the fishbowl performance.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
So was that actually your first time performing as Alaska?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so how did it feel?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so then you decide to move to L.A.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
But you decide at the time that you're not going to do drag there. You like pack your wigs and then you go through security at the airport. And then you take your wigs out because you're like, I'm not doing drag.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
No, I got you.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. And well, thank God that you did. What a gift. So at some point you're like, okay, I'm doing drag for fun. Now I have to make money doing it. And I read that you sort of like looked around and you're like, what, how are other drag queens making money? And so you saw somebody sell t-shirts online. So you're like, I'll sell t-shirts online.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
You saw people promoting and producing shows and parties. So you're like, I'll try that. And then also making their own music. And so, well, first of all, do you have any of those old T-shirts still? Because I want one. I do. Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
OK, well, if you find one, let me know. But when I was reading that, I was surprised because I figured that sort of the big moneymaker is performing. Is that right?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
So tell me about that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Keeping costs low. Yes. No, perfect. And so when so you said you're getting paid like a hundred bucks, maybe. So is that normally the structure? It's like you'll get a fee and then tips.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
So how much, like, say the Blue Moon, where, you know, bar in Pittsburgh, where you're a big part of the legacy there. How much would somebody make in tips a night there?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
$20?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. Yeah. And so what are the what are the costs? How does it get so expensive?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
Yeah. And do you think because I was thinking about it and not every job has such startup costs like that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so you really have to be willing to invest in yourself.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)
And so did that make you feel differently, do you think, than if you had a job where like you could have just jumped into it? Like, do you feel like you were more confident because you're investing or did you feel like I got to make this work because I'm like putting my money into it?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
Hi, Money Rehabbers. It's Morgan Levoy, the EP of the show. And this week, I'm going to be guest hosting Money Rehab. I've been producing Money Rehab with Nicole since it launched in 2021. I remember so clearly the first time I ever met Nicole, it was over Zoom because, you know, it was 2021 and everything was over Zoom. It might have even been 2020.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
And Nicole had booked an Airbnb to write, honestly, I forget which book at that point. It might have been Miss Independent. And she was in the middle of the desert somewhere. And so we were on this call talking about what the show might look like. And every so often there would just be this screeching noise in the background because where Nicole was, there was a large population of wild hogs.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
And so every so often she would flip her camera around and you would just see this small stampede of very scary looking wild creatures. And I just remember thinking, I love this woman and I can't wait to work with her. And at the time I was at iHeartRadio also producing other shows like Bethany Frankel's podcast and Bill Clinton's podcast, Minnie Driver's podcast and a bunch of others.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
But Money Rehab has always had a really special place in my heart. I love the show so much that I actually left my job at iHeart to start M&N with Nicole. And it's just been the ride of a lifetime, the biggest opportunity I've ever had, which is why I'm so grateful to be guest hosting the show this week.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
So this week, you'll hear episodes ranging from a conversation on the business of drag with the winner of RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars Season 2, Alaska. A deeper dive on some of those quote unquote boring businesses Nicole has talked about. For that conversation, I'm going to be talking with the CEO of laundry and dry cleaning company Rinse.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
You're also going to hear my conversation with Gia Tolentino, staff writer at The New Yorker and one of the most important writers of our time, talk about what the killing of the UnitedHealth CEO says about the state of the healthcare system in the U.S. All of that and more you'll hear this week.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
But first, I'm going to share the very first episode of Money Rehab that I was ever featured on with an even more special guest, my mom. And in that conversation, Nicole will also help you find free money. So here's that episode.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
Okay, so here's what happened. Also, hi, everyone. It's Morgan, one of the producers on Money Rehab. So I did go to unclaimed.org. And spoiler alert, I did have unclaimed money, which is so exciting. It's weird. I guess the college that I went to owes me money. I'm honestly not sure what it's for.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
But to be totally straight up with you, because of the way that the unclaimed money was sent to New York State, I actually can't collect it online. And I also can't see how much money there is for me. So fingers crossed it's, you know, a million dollars. But what I have to do now is print out the mail-in form and send it in, which is totally fine.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
There's money out there that I didn't know about that has my name on it. That's awesome. But in terms of the show, I don't want to leave you guys hanging. You know, snail mail. Who knows how long this could take? I thought instead I would try to help someone find some unclaimed money. So I called my mom.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
Let's find you your unclaimed money.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
So we went to unclaimed.org first, and there were only a couple pieces of information that we had to put in before we could start the free search. Claimant relationship. Personal representative.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
No. Okay, so it says claimant individual for last name, first name. Now it's asking for your address. And that was really it. So then we submitted it. You have a couple things, but the one that looks most interesting to me. Oh, wait, there's more. There's one that just belongs to you and it's under $25. But there's another one between both you and Tim and it's over $25.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
So I feel like we should look into that one. Let's look into that one. So to get my mom's unclaimed money, we had to submit a claim, which we did right through the website. Okay, so right now it's asking me for your last name, your first name, so far so good.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
I do know those things. Your home phone. I'm just gonna put your cell phone. Okay, I'm gonna pause the recording right now because I'm gonna ask for your social security number. All right, address. How did you hear about us? My daughter. The next page is electronic signature and preview your claim. By clicking the agree button below, I certify the following. I am the person whose name I keyed in.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
Kind of. All the information I have keyed in.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
There's a lot of overlap. All the information I have keyed in is true and accurate. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. So check if you agree to the above conditions. Check. Okay. You should have gotten an email.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
So the email we were waiting for would tell her what the next step was to get the money that she was owed and how much money she was owed.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
You May Have Missing Money... Here's How to Find It!
And then after maybe two minutes, she got the email.