Mike Holcomb
Appearances
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
i think that's a lot more intimidating or if you know you're going to be like broadcasted in front of a couple thousand people that certainly could stress you out yeah yeah and that's i think a big part of b-size really it's just embracing kind of the the day and the people that are there and like i said you just people from from all different backgrounds and perspectives and and uh yeah i'm really excited to see i already have some great people that have submitted talks and
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
and definitely encourage people to go to the besidesics.org to submit talks if they're listening to this before the event uh because we love to have you know as many different folks and perspectives there yeah i'm so thrilled that we're doing this like this is why didn't we do this sooner that's what i keep thinking but here we are it works right yes
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Gotcha. Yeah. I had to put some thought into this, I guess. But off the top of my head, I would... My favorite food these days to eat, I am very much into like new American small plate food. That's kind of our jam these days. My favorite food memory, I always go back to, I just have to go, it's more like popcorn and candy at the movie theaters.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Yeah, I think I would say maybe take a step back a little bit. We talk about ICSOT cybersecurity, there's always these overlooked areas. Uh, food and agriculture definitely being one of those, uh, mining is another, we see, um, even water wastewater. Now they've gotten a lot of visibility since the cyber Avengers attacks that started at the end of last year.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Um, but, but yeah, I mean, you have a lot of these often ignored underrepresented groups for, for, for many, many reasons, unfortunately. Um, and I think just with the, you know, the conversations with you, uh, there's actually a gentleman that, um, this goes back probably a year and a half ago.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
I was really fascinated with, he was on, and I feel bad, I forget his name, um, that he was on with Andrew Ginter on the waterfall, the industrial cybersecurity podcast there. And he was talking about mostly, you know, the impact to farming and from an OT cybersecurity perspective.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Of course, they were talking about like the John Deere tractor incidents, right, with, you know, Ukraine and Russia and Russia. And a few other kind of stories that came out of that. But so I think it was a good way to start thinking of, you know, at that point. And I think you had the episode, like one of your first ones up around cybersecurity in the wine industry.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
And so that's really interesting. Any of those, for me, it's kind of like you're going back, you're on your date and you're looking for how many OT devices can we find or IoT devices. And I think in some respects for me, it's more like, oh, yeah, I didn't think about all of these places where technology is available.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
like in these different environments, you know, because you know what, I, I, you know, I haven't been on a farm in 20 plus years since, you know, I went to my uncle's back in Illinois, you know, and, and, um, you know, he probably had state-of-the-art tech back then, right. He actually was always up on those types of things, but that, that,
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
was 20 plus years ago you know so very very different did have John Deere tractors big ones too but you know I digress but I think you know it's a big part of you know I think for me it's just like Any environment, I guess, until I go into it or get more exposure. Right. And I guess that goes back to awareness and education.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
So my grandfather used to take me to the movies all the time. And so that was... I just remember always getting popcorn and then, um, Jordan almonds was, was my, my thing back then. You can't really find them that much these days, other than like to order them off Amazon or like the, uh, craft supply store for whatever reason has that. That's weird. Right. But I'm like, okay.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
It's you just like anybody, you know, just don't think about where that technology is and the impact. And then, of course. the cybersecurity brain starts kicking in and then it's like, oh, I'm looking at this from an attacker perspective to see what would be possible from an attack perspective. And then then, of course, start thinking about it from the defender perspective.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
So how can we defend against those those types of attacks? So it's it's always very fascinating. So it's and it is, I guess, interesting in a way that like food and agriculture does kind of fly under the radar because we always, you know, think of like, OK, energy. Right. And we have NERC, you know, and all these requirements and at least in the U.S. and North America.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
But we can think of, OK, water and wastewater is now getting a little visibility there. But food and agriculture still is definitely one of those redheaded stepchildren that nobody wants to talk about. It just seems like it's at the bottom of the barrel for people to get to. And admittedly, so I was one of those people as well. And now it's like,
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
I remember there was an S4 presentation last year that Kate Vaja slash Kate Johnson had done with a gentleman and either talking about the security of trucking and how, right, if you want food on your table, it's got to get to the store first, right? And if the trucks aren't able to function and drive the food to the store, it... you're not eating. Um, so it's very much the same thing.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
It's like, you know what? I'm, I think like a lot of stuff in, in control systems, it's just until you think about it, right. Then it's just, you know, it's just not on your radar. So I think, you know, especially, you know, having the conversations with you. And I think it's, you know, amazing that
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
You're out there doing the call to arms for food and agriculture because there's, you know, I can count on maybe two or three fingers the number of people that actually are trying to do that. Right. And you are, I think, the most visible and the most vocal that's that's out there leading that charge.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Uh, but yeah, we used to get those. I just remember, yeah. Going to see like, you know, the empire strikes back or return of the Jedi and, uh, all those great movies and just spending the time with him. And, and yeah, it was always just, you know, kind of the, the movies and the popcorn and the candy. So.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Yeah, that's very cool. The most recent episode of Yellowstone actually had talked about, I don't know if you ever watched that show, but if you don't watch it, I would just say, you know, the wife's going to meet her husband. He's at a famous cattle ranch in Texas.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
called the four sixes and she gets pulled over for speeding and the police officer you know comes up to her and she you know the the the woman the wife driving had mentioned she's going to see her husband he's at this this ranch and and the officer she says He was like, tell your husband, thank you very much for what he does.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
And she was like, the wife is like, why are you just letting me off and not giving me a ticket? She was like, oh, we're in Texas. We understand what it takes to put a steak on the table. And I think that really kind of brings that into being able to visualize it. Yeah, I like that one.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
So with Jordan almonds, you had to keep those separate. Now, then I evolved to when Jordan almonds got phased out in high school, I ended up working in a movie theater, which is still the best job I ever had. And yeah,
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
There you go. That would make a good episode.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Right. Yeah. That's why I don't go hiking in the mountains. Yeah.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
just didn't pay that great but you know it's still still yeah the best job and so there we had raisinets and so the raisinets you would mix with the popcorn and that was that was the best popcorn's a fun one because there's so many different varieties right i was up visiting my family recently and my mom came out with this bag of popcorn that i'd never seen before and i was like what is this mom she's like
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Excuse me. The data centers are like right up around the corner from you.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
It's interesting. I think though you mentioned, you know, like with the comments, that's the best place where you can learn so much. And that's why I also love when I do the online classes, because you get I mean, I usually get, you know, one, 200 people from just all over the world and they work in all different industries and have all different backgrounds.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
And you have someone who's, you know, brand new to, to OT cyber, they might even be brand new to it cyber. And then you have somebody that's been working in, in OT and maybe like a, um, serial, you know, facility, um, for 30 years, like for Kellogg's. Right. And then just everything in, in between. So it's really, really cool. And you get that in the comments as well.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
So, you know, you get a lot of going back and forth. And whether it's, you know, you get someone like Joe Weiss, who's like the engineer's engineer, right? Oh, yeah.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
You know, he pops in from time to time. You know, and then, but you also get, yeah, same thing, right? People that are brand new asking really good questions, right? And then you have other people that chime in. Sometimes, yeah, there's, I had one the other day where somebody just, researchers sometimes come across a little, I don't know, they just kind of come across like they know everything.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
take a step back. Like I realize like the more, you know, I'm definitely at that age in life where I'm like, the more I learn, you know, the more I realize I know nothing.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
You know, it's but yeah, it's the comment sections are great for an uncertain post. Sure. My ego, you know, loves when someone's like, oh, this is a great post. But yeah, when you get like a good back and forth, like and you can actually like look at something from somebody else's perspective or learn something new.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Or again, it goes back to, yeah, I didn't think about food and ag because I haven't worked in food and ag. Somebody jumps in there talking about, yeah, this is how this works in food and ag or any other sector. It's like, oh yeah, it's just something I haven't been exposed to. And that's one of the cool things about ICS and OT is every environment is unique.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Everything is, every environment is different. So you're just always constantly learning and then you go to a new environment or a It's all completely new or to a large degree. So yeah, the comments can be a really great place to learn. And the DMs are kind of the same. I get people from all walks of life, from all over the world. Somebody wants to reach out and ask for help.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
I was like, yeah, no, I'll definitely help. I'm not giving away state secrets.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
uh you know and versus you know i get a lot of folks you know how do i get you know started in the the community and that's where i point them to my youtube course or the the ebooks that i put together or they can download those off of github um you know and then i've you know had had you know cso's for some of the world's largest control system environments reach out and wanted to jump on a call and it's really you know it's really interesting and i already kind of
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
had an idea of this from my day job where we design and build some of the world's largest control system environments where it doesn't matter if it's a huge plant for one of the world's largest companies or like some mom and small mom and pop shop manufacturing.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
a lot of the i mean a the basics of icsot cyber are are the basics and you want to apply the fundamentals no matter the size or complexity of of the environment and it doesn't have to be complex but but and at the end of the day most most environments they should share the same same problems and same issues it's just unfortunate and because this is something we don't
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
We see in IT, but we see it much more amplified in the ICSOT world. Because, yeah, we realize like in IT, you have the banks, right, where they have my son-in-law works at a big bank. They have 3000 people on their cybersecurity team. Right. That's more than those companies have as just their overall number of employees. Right.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
So you do have the companies out there and this is the same in ICSOT, but much more desperate as far as you have. Sure, you have a Shell or a BP or Saudi Aramco, right, that have employees. The huge teams, they have very mature cyber programs, and they have the team members and their resources to secure their environments.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
And then on the other end of the spectrum, which is most environments, you have a lot of small mom and pop shops, whether it's water, food and agriculture, mining, manufacturing, which is, of course, big here in the Carolinas. And they don't have... The resources to have somebody dedicated to OT cyber, let alone probably OT at all. I don't have an IT cyber person.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
They might not even have an IT person at all either. Right. And so it's yeah, we see that in IT. But at the same time, like IT, if you go one IT environment to another, they're pretty cookie cutter for the most part. we don't have that in ICS OT, right?
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
You go into a power plant versus a water treatment facility versus a mine versus a manufacturing plant versus, I mean, the list goes on and on and on. And it's, everything is always different. Definitely some similarities for sure in how we defend those environments, but the processes and how they operate, right? It's very different standing in
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
a petrochemical facility versus that facility that Kellogg's, you know, uses to, to make cereal. Yeah. So it's, and you just see this big separation between the, you know, the haves and the have nots. And in, in ICSOT, there's very few haves and just so many that, that just don't have the resources. of what they need.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Yeah, I could see it. I don't know if I'd be a fan and I can't do spicy food anymore, unfortunately. So sad and getting old. But yeah, I could see it, I guess. Place to try.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Chicken is huge. Yeah, definitely.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
I think the nice thing about B-Sides is just everybody can come and just hang out for the day and just share and learn and just kick back, relax and take it all in. Yeah.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Yeah, there's other things that I've just taken for granted as well, so...
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Well, I think that's everybody, right? I mean, I didn't even think about really cyber in like a power plant or a modder until, you know, Stuxnet, which was really where I started asking the questions like, well, wait a minute, how does this work in a power plant? Like, I have no clue, you know, and then, you know, that's how, you know, how I got started down that road.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Thank you for doing that.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
That was the idea. It was like, this is the class I, you know, the main class there is, is the getting started course. And that's, this is the class I wish I had when I was getting started. Cause you know, it's. Like, what are these terms and how they fit together? And no, it doesn't have to be scary.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
We'll have to try that.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Yeah, that's the thing is like, okay, if you sure, okay, sure. I haven't gone to this event or no, I haven't worked in like this type of environment or yeah. Why don't you share with me, you know, help, help me understand instead of just sitting there and complaining or, you know, saying mean things. I mean, it's yeah.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
There's a few people out there that, yeah, that especially you see on LinkedIn that they've come to some pretty interesting extremes, but you know, that's like their hobby and they have a lot of fun with it. So yeah.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Yeah, for sure. I think that's the only way we we win. We always know the attackers are going to be always ahead, you know, and it just goes back to there's there's definitely the few halves in ICSOT and so many, you know, are the have nots. Yeah. And my day job, I get to work with the halves, which which is which is great. Right. You don't have to worry about things like budgets.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
But at the end of the day, the vast majority of environments out there are the have-nots. It's true. They're the ones that are going to be impacted or they're the ones that are going to get hit with ransomware and they're going to lose water for maybe a couple thousand. people for maybe even just a couple of days, but that's still a real world impact.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
I'm curious now.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
And then how, how does that, you know, those impacts ripple, ripple out? Uh, and yeah, attacks are only going to get, we're seeing right. They're just continually increasing, uh, the impacts are becoming more and more.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
I did that actually right after we met in D.C. Yeah, because that's when I got COVID. Thanks.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Could be worse places.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
And thanks, everybody, for listening in. So... So yeah, we'll just keep fighting the good fight and yeah, feel free to reach out anytime.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Thanks, Justin.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
That's my thing.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
My granddaughter is all about Sour Patch Kids these days, for sure.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Yes, you do, which you should or you shouldn't have to. But yes, it's forgotten a lot.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Yeah, well, I got, you know, besides the day job, actually, I have a couple of new projects through the day job, which is keeping me busy. And we're about to launch the new cybersecurity practice for control systems at Floor. So really excited about that and some changes that hopefully we'll see in January moving forward. And then, of course, the big news besides ICS.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Nice ICSOT, which is really exciting for February 10th. So we're lined up, we'll be in Tampa. So it's the day before the S4 conference. So a lot of, you know, we get a lot of the ICSOT expert crowd as well.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
I think Dale describes it for S4, but then also trying to make an event more accessible and available to folks with a focus on whether you just want to come learn more about what ICSOT is, or if you're already, maybe you are an asset owner or operator and you want to learn more from a practical perspective.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
and want things that you can take back to the office the following day to actually put right into action. I think that's a big focus for us. And you don't get that stuff typically at a lot of other conferences, unfortunately. And that's always been a big focus for me, at least for me going to conferences, right? That's the kind of material that I want.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
And so that's, I think, resonates with a lot of folks. And, you know, and that's not what S4 is designed to share, right? And so, but it's why not have an event the day before where we can take advantage of all the great folks, you know, that are in town for S4, but also... bring new folks and the asset owners and operators into the event. I'm really, really excited.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
The B-Size community was really supportive of us trying this. They typically don't have events all over the world and they don't typically have an event that's dedicated to a particular niche. So they've done like a few over the years. They did a Splunk besides once. So hopefully this goes really well because we've already had some some folks reach out about doing Splunk.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
versions like in the UK and India and other places. So that's really exciting. And so, yeah, so I'm really, really hopeful. So it's yeah, it's it's incredible to be able to do that.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Yeah, it really, I mean, I've been in IT cyber for 30 plus years, but doing OT cyber for 10-ish, the ICSOT cyber community is just above and beyond. There's some great people in IT, don't get me wrong, but it's the ICSOT community. It's just that, I think it's just the people here really are focused on the mission, you know,
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
That really brings people together into, again, kind of like you're mentioning in IT, it's okay, we're protecting data or we want to keep the company from going down for ransomware, which are all very, you know, worthy missions for sure.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
But when we talk about, you know, making sure we're preventing loss of life or somebody from getting hurt or making sure food does get on your table or there's electricity when you flip on the switch or clean water when you turn the faucet on. But yeah, I mean, that's it. It's just a whole other level and people really bond over that mission.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
I think it really, really clicks and the vast majority of people in the field are very welcoming. There's a few that aren't, but overall the vast majority are and it's really, really great to see.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
it's a fun game we play on dates sometimes which is probably means we're extra nerdy but that's okay it is yeah i always say like yeah like in it a lot of us can be nerdy but in ics ot we are nerdy to the extreme i think especially that if you've ever met you know many like tried and true engineers right very like nerdy to the nerdy you know degree but all in a good way right i'm
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
not trying to make fun of anybody all in a good way.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
No, I'm glad to be here. No, I'm happy we finally got to do this.