Mike Ghesser
Appearances
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
So... She's incredibly smart and incredibly aware. The way I describe Rosie is she understands everything. Her input is incredible. She has difficulty with her output, whether that's speaking or whether that's walking or things like that. But there's so many types of accessibility options out there that help her become independent and successful, right? And so...
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
I think for her, as she goes through school, she's learning how to use more and more of these tools. For example, technology is amazing what it can do. She uses an AAC device to speak. And as she gets older and works with the amazing team, like her ability to communicate, whether it's through her AAC device or not, is mind-blowing to me. And I see her continuing to get better through practice.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Her social skills, like this kid is incredibly funny. She's a comedian, loving and sarcastic. For a kid that can't talk, it's amazing how well she's able to communicate. But she's going to go through school and continue to make friends and impact people. And she'll advance just like every other child advances, but in her own way. You know what I mean?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
The further along she goes in school, the more opportunities are going to open up to her. I'd love to see her develop more of her interests. She loves technology and she loves electronics, which is interesting to me. It's fascinating. And who knows what she'll end up doing with it. Every other 11 year old, 12 year old continues to advance in school and pursue their interests.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
She had an indication and I was just like, I didn't know anything. But she started to point it out and I said, okay, well, whatever, she'll be fine. The older she got, the more we kind of started to see things, the more I realized that, okay, well, there are some differences. There was an incident that happened when she was three months old. I was at work one day and my wife called me frantically
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
The education process where we live is pretty phenomenal. I haven't really looked yet at what colleges have for her, but If she wants to and she expresses interest in that, we're certainly going to do that. If she wants to work somewhere, you know, I talk about how I created the accessibility within my business. So one day she could work there.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
I don't know if she's ever going to want to work at my company. We have an interesting father-daughter relationship, and I'm not so sure how that would work at the company. But whatever that kid wants to do, I'm going to support her and encourage her and give her all the tools that she needs to be independent and successful, however that looks.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Sure. It actually evolved into that today. Quick backstory. My company is called CleanLogic and I have a business partner and his name is Isaac Shapiro. When I met him, he was my first exposure into the world of disabilities and his mother is blind. When we first started working together, we created a nonprofit.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
What we wanted to do was take profits from our business and donate them to the nonprofit from Clean Logic and donate them to the nonprofit called Inspiration Foundation and give adaptive technology awards to blind and visually impaired people who wanted to get back into the workplace. So we did that for a while. And I was always thinking in the back of my mind, why aren't we creating jobs?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
This is before I was married. This is before Rosemary was born. But I was always thinking like, why don't we just create jobs? At the time, our business was small and we were struggling and we weren't in the position. We didn't even have employees at the time. It was just him and I. But that was always lingering in the back of my mind. And then I met my wife.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
We had Rosemary until she was a couple of years old that I started to think what that looked like. That's when I started to plan. We just weren't in the position to really do anything then. And this is 2011, 12, 13, 14. And in 2019 is when we moved from Los Angeles to the suburbs of Philadelphia and we opened up our own facility. Rather than outsourcing a lot of our work, we took it in-house.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
And for me, that was the time that I knew that I could control how we built this program. And I had a great team. Our business had grown significantly and had a great team that supported our vision. We were finally able to, I want to say it was the end of 2021, where we started working with Overbrook School of the Blind.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
They had a work experience program for some of their students, and they came in a couple hours a week to get real life experience working in a company. When I saw the fact that we could do this, not just in theory, but in practice, that's when it kind of like the doors blew open. And what else can we do? And what else can we do? And how can we create more jobs?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
And what type of an impact is this doing? had gift sets and things that we wanted to put together for promotions, like little jobs. But then we started teaching skills, training skills, like our company Clean Logic makes skincare tools, like exfoliating towels and gloves and sponges and things like that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
And we wanted to essentially not only create jobs for people with disabilities, but bring jobs back to the United States. Some of our products are made out of fabric. And so we started to value added like manufacturing here. So where things were getting sewn at another factory, we would do the sewing here at our facility. And so we said, well, let's see if they can sew.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
All the students were blind and or visually impaired. And we said, can you guys sew? And they're like, well, let's give it a shot. And they did. And they were great at it. We then looked at, OK, well, what else can we do? And so there was what we realized is there's nothing they couldn't do. We just needed to give them the opportunity.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
So it became one process and another process and another process and another process. And then we started opening it up to seeing more what we could do. And we started working with OVR, the Office of Vocational Rehabilitation in Pennsylvania, and they introduced us to job seekers. And I sit on the board of an organization called Neurodiversity Employment Network.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
I answered the phone and she's like, Rosie's having, her name is Rosie. She's Rosie's having a seizure. And I'm like, well, call 911. So I called 911. I said, I'll be home soon. When I got home, she was getting into an ambulance on the way to the hospital. Fortunately, we lived close to the hospital. We lived in Los Angeles at the time in West Hollywood.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
And that's about connecting neurodiverse job seekers to employers. Since I'm an employer, it was easy for me to say, okay, well, let's create a job. Let's give it a shot. And there's really no playbook. There's no right way to do it. Everybody's different and every job is different.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
But I think what made it easy for me was that here's my daughter and I understand what her disability is and I understand what accessibility means and how it's helped her become more independent and successful. And I looked at accessibility as an opportunity. So I brought it into the business. We would just try things. And if it worked, great, let's try more.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
And if it didn't, we'd look at why didn't it work? What can we do differently? Or how can we fix this process to make it a little bit easier? And someone who's blind needs something different than someone who's on the spectrum or someone who has a physical disability. The only way you're going to know is to try, give the opportunity, and then ask questions. That's the approach that we took.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
And that's how we evolved with CleanLogic to do what we do today. And today we have 30 people with all different types of disabilities. sewing, assembling, using, being machine operators. They're working in our office. They're processing orders. It's not just manufacturing. It's inside our office too. Like there are so many jobs that anybody can do anything. And that's the approach that we take.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Yeah. And, you know, CleanLogic itself, my business, yes, I want to grow it and I want it to be a successful business and I want to create meaningful employment for people with disabilities and also people that don't have a disability. By doing this over the years, what it's kind of instilled in me is I want to show for-profit businesses
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
that you can hire people with disabilities and it's actually going to be a bigger benefit than you think and it's not as scary as you think so basically what we're doing at clean logic is we're creating a model that i just want to share with people it's not a secret it's not something that i just want to like this is how we do and you can't see it i want all for-profit businesses
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
to see what we're doing and say, it's not difficult, it's not scary. Do you know what I mean? Because I think that that's how you can make significant and meaningful change in the world. And that's what we're out to do.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
There's a hospital called Cedars-Sinai, not too far away. When I got home, she was being put into the ambulance and fire department was there. And they're like, follow us to the hospital. When we got there and they ran a bunch of tests, it wasn't a seizure. Fortunately, it was a rare neurological disorder.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
I appreciate it. I appreciate. what you're doing. I hope you get as big as Joe Rogan, because I think this is information and this is awareness that I think is so important. I look at what we're doing as changing the world, right?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
I have such a big view and I'm not able to do it by myself, but people like you and other people that are in this space, just a little bit more and more at some point, we're gonna make a big impact.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
What was interesting about that experience for us, we were there for a few days, is there was a doctor, a very well-known child neurologist, that we finally got to see. Her name is Dr. Naparko. She came into our room and examined our daughter. And she said something that I'll never forget that really kind of shaped who I am, what I do, why I do the things that I do today.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
And she said, she looked at my wife and she said, listen, she goes, you're not going to be a soccer mom. You're going to be a therapy mom. And she did it in, she was matter of fact. And it was rough to hear at the time, but she was right. She was 100% right.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Immediately after we got out of the hospital, we started looking at therapies for my daughter and we got her physical therapy and occupational therapy and we put her in an early intervention program a little while later at UCLA Hospital. It was there that I started to see Rosie make a lot of progress and it was there that I started to see her around her peers.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
There were a lot of other children there with all disabilities. There were children on the spectrum. There were Down syndrome children, children with other physical disabilities, mobility issues, you name it. That's where I started to see they were still able to do the same things that typical children were doing. They were just doing them a little bit differently. They would
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
you know they would have equipment accessibility you know my daughter part of her condition is she was she's low muscle tone and so she had difficulty sitting and then standing and they had like a stander that she would use to help her strengthen her muscles all sorts of things like that with all that happening how was it affecting you what was your thought process moving forward
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
I started to think about her future. I knew that she was going to be disabled, and even though she was still young, I didn't know what that looked like. But I started thinking about seeing the early intervention, but what does kindergarten look like? And what does elementary school look like, and middle school, and high school? And ultimately, what's after that?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
When they graduate high school, where do they go?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
i run a company and i'm very like entrepreneurial and a planner so i started to look into the future for my daughter but specifically like where do people with disabilities go afterwards and there's a lot of programs there's a lot of things that they have but i wasn't able to find something that i felt from a parent's perspective that was right for my daughter and granted she's
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
at the time two three years old today she's 11 and she's not even close to being out in the workforce or anything but i immediately went into like planning several years later we moved from los angeles to philadelphia that's where we started to put together essentially what i thought was the a company my company clean logic that was an accessible and inclusive environment
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
for people with all different kinds of disabilities, intellectual, physical, people on the spectrum, things like that. And that's kind of how my daughter created the inspiration in me, my purpose to do what I do today.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Good question. So our daughter's always been in public schools. The early intervention program at UCLA in Los Angeles, I don't remember exactly how we got there, but we got a reference and it was, I want to say, a program through insurance or through the school, through UCLA, the college.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
then after that we sent her to a public school in our neighborhood we lived in studio city at the time amazing school dixie canyon elementary and they had a i think it was called the it's called the pals program preschool for all learners it was public and it was very well run after she was going to go into kindergarten that's when we moved out to philadelphia
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
The reasons we moved out here, we actually live in the suburbs. We wanted to move to a suburb called Tredyffrin-Easttown, that school district, because they had an amazing program for Rosie and for her needs. We put her in the public school in Tredyffrin-Easttown. That program is even more amazing than the one that we were in in Los Angeles.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
My expectation is she'll continue to go to public schools in Tredyffrin in our school district. They just have a very incredible focus on integration. She's in a life skills program, teaching her life skills, but also putting her into the classrooms with typical children. She has a very good mix. She gets the therapies that she needs.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
She learns her life skills, and then she participates in classes with all the other children.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Yeah, so it actually worked out incredibly well, and I think this has a lot to do with the program that they have at the school. It's not just about putting a child with special needs in a class with neurotypical or able-bodied children. They educate them. They tell them, you know, who the student is and what their disability is, and they teach them about disabilities early on.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
So it's not like, you know, they normalize it as much as possible. My daughter has a one-on-one that's with her all the time to help with that transition. I mean, she's obviously different than everybody else is, but she's not treated differently.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
I think that's one of the things that I think successful programs do well is it's something that's always part of the educational process, not just for the student with disabilities, but for every single student. And accessibility is huge within those schools. And I think it's about... not making it a special thing and treating every child just as they're the same. You know what I mean?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
It does. It does. I completely agree. And I think a lot of schools that are successful with this program do well as they show that everybody has something to offer. Everybody has a voice, regardless of whether you're disabled or not. Everybody has something to teach another person. I think that's the foundation for it.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
So far.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Sure. Yeah. The biggest thing that kind of was an eye-opener for me is the world itself was not built for people with disabilities. Everywhere I go, I realize the obstacles that someone with a disability faces. While there's so many amazing pieces of accessibility, that are brought up all over the place, it's still difficult, it's still different. For example, going to the beach, right?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Typical people can just go to the beach and walk to where you want to go, sit down on the sand, but my daughter has mobility issues. And for a long time, it was very difficult to be able to get her to where she needed to go on the beach. And I never realized what that was like until I'm having to get to the beach, things like that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
But there's a wheelchair, for example, that's meant to be put on sand that helps bring her to where she needs to go. But it's something extra. Going out to dinner, there's ramps that allow you to move up, you know, walk up to where you need to go. But sometimes when you're walking through a restaurant, the space between the tables just does not accommodate.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
So there's so many things that you do on a regular basis that without a disability, don't even realize and take for granted, like you can just go where we want. But once you're in that scenario, it's just very difficult. I can't unsee things. Do you know what I mean?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Sure. Interesting story. So I have three daughters. My oldest, Rosemary, she's 11 years old. When she was born at about three months old, we discovered that she was disabled. She is physically disabled and intellectually disabled and neurodiverse. And me being a first-time parent at the time, I had no idea what that meant. My wife was very quick to recognize missed milestones or things like that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Yeah, you're never prepared for this. Nobody goes and says, I feel like having a special needs child. You know what I mean? But when it happens, like when you find out about it, it's kind of like an adjustment period. But I got to tell you, it's the biggest blessing you'll ever get in your entire life. It took me a minute to accept this or realize how true it was.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
But God gives special babies to special parents. That might not be comforting to some people depending on the severity of this disability of their child. But for me, it was a realization and kind of opened my eyes up to seeing internally like inside me what I'm capable of doing as a father and the amount of love and patience and understanding that I never knew that I had.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
to be able to give my child the best life possible and to have a kind of love that you don't know that could even create. The other thing that it helped me realize was what an opportunity a parent of a special needs child has to change the world, right? You're dealing with something or you're exposed to something or you're now part of this world that not everybody is.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
You will see the world differently. You will experience life differently. You will see other families, other children very, very differently and not in a bad way. You see the world through a very different lens and it's an amazing lens to see the world through, but it gives you a superpower to go and advocate for your child and take care of your child. And by doing that, you're changing the world.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
You're bringing awareness to things that the majority of the world doesn't see or experience. No one's going to argue with making the world a better place for kids, for adults, right? And like little things, accessibility things, they're so important and it just needs more voices. It's going to make everybody's life better. You've been given a gift in a way. Do you know what I mean?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
BONUS EPISODE: Mike Ghesser: A Father's Mission to Transform the World for Neurodiverse Individuals
Yeah.