Mike Albo
Appearances
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
But if we're going to have an honest conversation about abuse, we also have to have an honest conversation about what people are willing to do for stardom. If you want a number one record on the chart so bad you'll take a number one in the face, some of that is on you.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
And if you're doing it for love, well come on, Oprah and Dr. Phil and every podcaster in the world have done a million shows by now about how abuse is not love and abusers don't change. If it happened once, there will be more of it.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
But by her own account, she said, the whole time I was with him, I could have bought myself a business flight plane ticket back to my four-story townhouse in Hackney, London. Really? Then why am I reading about this? Then do that. Buy that plane ticket, even if you have to go coach. If you're literally being held captive, that's one thing.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
But if you're putting up with whatever for love or for your career, then you need to have a little more honesty and accountability about that. Ike Turner was a psycho just like Diddy, but in an era where there was no movement to help her, Tina Turner somehow got away and she did it with 36 cents in her pocket and a mobile card.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Thank you so much. And thanks for reading the book.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Right. An underminer is that friend who makes you feel really horrible about yourself, no matter what you do. And they always sort of have a feeling that they're better than you, that they don't say that out loud. They just sort of subtly are concerned about you in this way that makes you feel like when you walk away from a conversation with them and you're like, why am I so depressed?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
You don't really know why. It's a very gassy, vaporous kind of evil in your life.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yes. The Underminer feels better about themselves as long as you're below them somehow. And it is always done with a level of like, I'm so worried about you. You look tired. Are you okay? Is there something wrong? You know, this sort of like concern, which I think is so...
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
which has been around since the beginning of time, but I think with social media and with wellness and with the way that we all work now, it's even more exponential. And with social media, you can... you can pose that you're better than someone so easily and make them feel so bad about themselves.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
But also you can also be a, I feel, you know, when I wrote this book, it was before the term thought leader was such a big term and before the term wellness was a big term. But I feel like those two, like a thought leader is someone who thinks they're better than you, you know, who has ideas that maybe you don't really understand, but maybe if you work hard, you can get them.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
No. What did she launch?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yep. And I think also, you know, the way that culture has evolved, there is a level of people who think they're enlightened. Enlightenment became a luxury product in a way. And, you know, there's people who can pay for it. And then, you know, they go off to these ashrams or wherever they go and they come back and feel enlightened and, but also they, they have the money to be able to do so.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
And, you know, you can pay to be enlightened now. Um, you can pay to be hanging out with the best meditators and, uh, and it's, you know, I, I, I practice Buddhism, but I don't know what kind of form of affliction it is, but it's definitely, um, you know, the hocus pocus, which has been around again since the beginning of civilization, um,
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Things have changed enough so that moving forward, the rules should be, if you're being abused, you gotta leave right away.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
has exponentially formed into these thought leading, enlightened beings that make you feel horrible about yourself.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
I would say the Underminer is either a female or a gay male.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yep. But there are, in my experience now, I mean, you know, parents can be Underminers. Kids can be Underminers. There's other types of Undermining, especially among mothers with each other. Talk to me. Talk to me.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
About Mother Mining.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
I mean, I just noticed that, you know, of course, this is like as I've aged, I've seen different phases of it. And then, you know, when all my lady friends had their kids and and, you know, they're they would come back from the playground or something. And, you know, their kid would have been, you know, like, is there something wrong with your child or like your child has a cough or something?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Is everything okay? You know, there's this level of concern you can really pull out of somebody. I mean, a level of concern you can show to somebody to make them feel terrible about their decisions, especially in the playground.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Oh, well, my favorite one is my friend whose mother said to her, do you still like your new haircut? Which is just sort of... Just like the perfect undermining line. It's just the still is really the dagger in that sentence. You know, I think when it comes to parents, they don't really know that they're doing it very often. But, you know.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yeah, you're probably right. You're probably right.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Well, in The Underminer, there are three different types of people. There's the spashtas, vashtas, and wishtas. And The Underminer is like, you know, a spashta is like my boyfriend, you know, strong, manly, you know, trustworthy. Vashtas, like me, are naturally thin, sort of healthy, have problems with their hands a little bit.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Wishtas are larger people who have problems with depression and bad skin. And, you know, maybe you're a wishta. You know, that's kind of like the way that it can happen perfectly in enlightened circles where you can divide people into these different types of people. And there's always one that's just more the loser type. You know what I mean?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
It's like I'm a Gemini, and I can't tell you how many times in the astrology world people are like, oh, no, I'm so sorry you're a Gemini. And I remember one time an underminer friend of mine was just like, your Venus is an Aries. I'm so sorry.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
I'm obsessed with her whole sub stack thing that got... You know what happened with her in Substack?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Well, this is very Underminey, but it's almost like an Underminer army. Glennon Doyle was going on Substack to start a, you know, she's huge. She's a giant thinker and thought leader in person. And then all these women, mostly women, kind of ganged up on her and said, like, how dare you take over? How are we going to find our voice now that Glennon Doyle is here, you know?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
And a lot of the comments would be like, I like Glennon Doyle, but I just feel bad that she's, you know, ruining my time here at Substack and like ruining my career. So and then Glennon Doyle was like, I'm out. And she just like left Substack after like five days.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
I have to find the right astrologist, I suppose.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Congratulations. Yes, I have heard.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Now, I completely understand why in the past women often did not do that. I understand, as counterintuitive as it seems, why an abused woman would send complimentary texts or emails to her abuser after the abuse. In an era where women felt for good reason that OG predators like Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein would never be held accountable, why not at least get something out of it?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yeah. To some people, I've been like, oh, hello, Underminer. Please feel free to use the word to claim it. To other people. But, you know, one thing that I really want to warn people about is never say, like, I got all my Underminers out of my life. I got toxic people out of my life because that is such an Underminer thing to say.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yeah.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
because it makes you sound superior. Like you have a better group of friends or something, or you just don't have any problems with your, your shining, wonderful friends who are all, you know, beautiful and exercise a lot or something. So you, you just have to kind of like be sly about it and just be like, Oh, okay. Wow. Cool. I mean, you know, I'm still friends with my underminer and,
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
And when I wrote the Underminer book, he undermined me in a meta way. It was just like, I guess the Underminer is like the most successful thing you've ever done. Stop it.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
I kind of told him. And, you know, we're pals. At this point now, I'm just like, oh, sweetie. Like, oh, how nice that you have to do that to feel better about yourself. You know, you could kind of. you can kind of do a jujitsu move with your underminers and be like, oh, that's so sweet that you were saying that like that.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
I think so. I think once you get obsessed with comparing yourself to other people and not doing the see, I'm about to sound like Glennon Doyle, but like, don't do if people who don't do the inner work, you know, and like go through life, comparing themselves with other people, which we all do all the time.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
But if, if the more aware you are that you're comparing and that other people are comparing the better off you are. I mean, cause I raise that.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
I was going to say, I think, I think we all undermine. I'm, I do it all the time to some of my friends who seem more fucked up. I'm always just like, are you okay? Like, Did you get home okay? You know, those kind of things.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yes, I've heard this. Are you reminding me now?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yeah.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Oh, good question.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
It makes me, I mean, I love the idea that she's just like called up. Her best friend was just like, girl, okay, this is just what happened. I mean, that makes me make her more human. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Which makes me like her. Yeah, yeah.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Right. Yes. I don't, I mean, I, now I feel for first time in my life, sympathy for Derek Plusberg. It's just horrible. And like, he must've felt so ashamed that he had to, I mean, even if they were like, you know, 3 billion thread count frette sheets or something. And then he had to like, be like, I would, I would have lied and been like, I had a bloody nose. I'm taking your sheets.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
I'll get you new ones or something. I don't know. That poor guy.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yes. Yes. And you got to be careful out there. The Hamptons.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Social social landmines everywhere you step.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Yes. I know this is not the subject, but I, I'm writing this article, very short article for New York magazine about being a house guest in the Hamptons, how to do it right. And thank you for bringing that up. I have to put this in the article, but it, but I've talked to enough of these people out in the Hamptons now.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
And they're, you know, one of them was like, take a photo of your bed and restage it. Like it pisses me off when someone messes up the staging of my bed as a guest. Oh, my God. And they also said another person I talked to, a private chef, said that there are that no one knows how to talk about a Zembik now because everyone's on it. Everyone looks like a ghastly, pale piece of white asparagus.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
And like you're supposed to be like, you look great, but no one knows how to say it because everyone is thin and weird looking. Yeah.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
Oh, it's so sweet. Thank you so much.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
i knew if i knew he knew okay let's move on in that scenario it was not illogical for an abused woman to say well if i can't get justice for my pain can i at least get a receipt a coupon this is disgusting this is disgusting he's equating
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
But this should be society's new grand bargain. We take every accusation seriously. But don't tell me anymore about your contemporaneous account that you said to two friends 10 years ago. Tell the police right away. Don't wait a decade. Don't journal about it. Don't turn it into a one-woman show. And most importantly, don't keep fucking him.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
It's not victim-shaming to expect women to have the agency to leave toxic relationships. Quite the contrary, to not expect that is infantilizing them. If Diddy walks free, it will be because his lawyers can point to an endless stream of texts from Cassie expressing what's often called enthusiastic consent to their sex life.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
If you're me-tooing someone, it doesn't help your case if you texted him, me too. I just want it to be uncontrollable. If you want us to think you weren't always ready to freak off, don't write, I'm always ready to freak off.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims, "And Just Like That" Premiere Flop, and Frenemy Tactics
And music is to begin with highly sexualized. Magic doesn't strike at the office. It strikes in the studio at 3 a.m. when you're high as a kite and horny as a youth minister and... Everyone is sexy as shit and you're working on a song called Slut Up My Goo Machine. Of course a freak-off breaks out.