Michael Weiss
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Well, as they said in the movie Quiz Show, I'd like to take the last question first, please. Let's start with J.D.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
OK, so let's start with Ukraine. 20 to 30,000 troops from, quote, some random country that hasn't fought a war in 20 to 30 years.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
The idea of sending European peacekeepers to Ukraine has come from two not so random countries, the United Kingdom and France, both of which, up until quite recently, were engaged in active combat in Afghanistan on behalf of the United States, because the only time in the history of NATO that Article 5 was invoked was after 9-11.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
So what's happened is now the UK press and UK parliamentarians and policymakers are seething. They think J.D. Fance, as one pundit put it, is a vice president as aggressive as he is dumb. It's one thing to have disagreements in foreign policy, to have a cordial dispute with our cousins abroad. It's another thing to piss on the graves of dead British soldiers. And that's what Vance is doing.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Now, he's trying furiously to wind this back saying, oh, I didn't mean the UK. I didn't mean France. I meant other countries.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Well, let's be direct. Which country does he refer to? Because every country that has even in principle considered being part of this Anglo-French peacekeeping force is either a NATO country and or has also fought in Afghanistan. And as far as military equipment, let's, for instance, take the Estonians, where I just was last week.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
They have emptied their stocks of a certain kind of howitzer and given them all to Ukraine, which Ukraine is deeply grateful for. And they also suffered, I think, the highest per capita rate of casualties in Afghanistan. It's a small country, 1.3 million people. But when they joined NATO in 2004, they were serious about it. And they fought and bled and died on behalf of Americans.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
So, I mean, this is a guy who is within the space of a few weeks dead. essentially trying to destroy the transatlantic relationship.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
He goes to Munich and gives this speech, in effect endorsing Alternative for Germany, the far-right party that didn't do as well as people were fearing it might in the last German election, which is also considered or under suspicion as being an extremist group by Germans' own domestic security service, pissing off the Germans, including the now incoming Chancellor Merz,
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
who has basically said America's intervention in German politics, meaning Vance and also Musk who explicitly endorsed AFD, is tantamount to what the Russians do. This is no small thing for Germany's foremost Atlanticist to be saying that America is now engaged in hostile action against this country. And now,
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
This deeply insulting, shambolic claim that the UK is Madagascar at the level of geopolitics and hasn't fought in active combat.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And, you know, I mean, dripping with contempt for Ukraine, telling Zelensky you take journalists and policymakers on propaganda tours. By that, I think he's referring to going to Bucha, an European, the site of Russian massacres, right, which has a deeply galvanizing effect on anybody who's been to these places. including European leaders.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And one of the reasons that Europeans are so pro-Ukraine is they've seen the horrors of occupation and war firsthand. I do not believe this line that's being peddled by MAGA and by including pro-Ukraine elements of MAGA that, oh, this was just a misunderstanding. It was actually Zelensky's fault for fact-checking the president. I think this was an ambush.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
I think Vance's presence there was designed to provoke this kind of reaction from Zelensky and also essentially Act as a spoiler for this rather weak tea minerals deal, which, by the way, the Ukrainians first proposed to the United States. as a way of getting security guarantees that are now absent from this memorandum of understanding that Trump is so desperate, apparently, to have him signed.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
So all Zelensky did was say, quite rightly, look, you know, we're for peace. We're for ending this war. We've suffered the most. But we can't do it unless we know that there's something that's going to stop the Russians from coming back and doing it again. And, you know, Vance does not want to commit to anything concrete in that regard. And keep in mind, Tim, the U.S.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
intelligence, as of mid-February, assessed Putin himself is not serious about a meaningful peace. So when Zelensky says in an interview, this war is going to go on for a very long time, he's not saying that as an endorsement of that assessment. He's just saying that that's That's just the state of play as per America's own spies. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And Donald Trump goes ballistic and says that's not that's the worst kind of thing you could say at this moment. So I think that the real premise here is and this is now being tacitly acknowledged by MAGA. Our president is an emotional toddler. He is so sensitive. His fifis are so important in any matter of statecraft that, you know, the slightest miscue, you don't wear a suit and tie.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
You kind of sit there with a scowl. You dare to contradict or correct him. And he's basically willing to license genocide on European soil. So you better watch your step, everybody. What are we talking about here? The problem is the man, not the fucking protocol and the engagement with him, right? Totally.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Well, and there's also a very recent historical precedent for being deeply suspicious about America's resolve and commitment to saving Ukraine. Let me read you a headline from the New York Times dated July 25, 2017. Headline, Trump finds reason for the U.S. to remain in Afghanistan, colon, minerals. Okay.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And by the way, you know who's profiting from Afghan's sizable rare earths and mineral deposits now? The Russians, the GRU, Russian military intelligence specifically, which is using it or was using it as a front for money laundering to pay the Taliban money to go after American and British and coalition soldiers.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
That was one of the recent investigations the insider did, naming names of the entire Afghan Taliban network. But leave that to one side. Absolutely. Let's say the United States signs some deal with the government of Ukraine to have the government of Ukraine allow access or revenue generation to the United States based on its mineral deposits?
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
What happens if the Russians decide to take more territory, including the land where these deposits are located, right? What's to stop the United States, Trump in particular, and especially from going to Putin and saying, well, you control this terrain now, so I guess I have to do business with you. That seems way more likely than he's going to go to war with Putin over the minerals.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
No, he would just cut the deal with Putin. Exactly. I mean, there are American lives in Ukraine, volunteers, diplomats, people who do go pretty close to the front line. It hasn't stopped the Russians from dropping bombs. I was in Kiev actually just before the war and then immediately after the liberation of the city.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And diplomats there were saying what a near-run thing it was, those who actually remained. In fact, one of the diplomats I met in the weeks before the full-scale invasion, I had to meet him in a cafe because there were bomb scares being called in to all the major embassies of NATO at that time. And guess where the bomb scares were coming from?
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
So security guarantees mean you have soldiers on the ground with kit or, you know, you are prepared to protect the skies of Ukraine. You are prepared to do X, Y and Z. You are going to essentially go to war on behalf of this country if it's invaded again. That's what the Ukrainians are looking for. Not, you know, well, we send some hedge fund guys to a mine in Odessa and, you know, there you go.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
We're safe and secure now.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Well, I would say this one of the and this is unfortunately being eclipsed by the sort of inanity of the current news cycle. But one of the tragic ironies of giving the Russians this lifeline. Right. I mean, right now, let's be clear. The United States is negotiating with one party, Ukraine, not with Russians. we are not really having an argument with Russia at all.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
We are offering them concessions preemptively, right? So, you know, to say that, you know, that this is the proper time to do it, unfortunately, neglects the fact that at the front, on the level of the battlefield now, Ukraine is actually doing a lot better than it was several weeks, certainly several months ago. In Turetsk, they are
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
practically encircling Russian columns who have overextended themselves. The former head of Estonia's foreign intelligence service does a daily brief. And the other day noted that about a third of Russia's glide bombs. So these are dumb bombs that become smart because of guidance systems that are in place. Very devastating to Ukrainian defenders.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
A third of the glide bombs are now being dropped in Kursk. which is Russia bombing Russia to expel the Ukrainians from the enclave that they took back in August, right? That's relieved some of the pressure. And also, the nature of this war has changed rather dramatically from 2022, 2023.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
You know, I'm going to upset some artillery specialists, including a good friend of mine when I say this, but artillery is not necessarily king any longer. What the Ukrainians are relying on increasingly are drones. This is a proper revolution in modern technologically savvy warfare.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
So they have manufactured at scale these first person view drones, which are making up for their lack of air superiority and also their manpower shortages. And you don't have to take my word for it. Look at what the Russians themselves are saying on Telegram. The drones are absolutely wreaking havoc on Russian positions and forcing the Russians now to slow down in their advances in Donbass.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
So at a moment like this, where it's actually not that bad, much less catastrophic as it seemed it was going to be several months ago, we are saying, well, whatever we can do to help the Russians and grant them all the terrain that they've taken and possibly even more in some negotiation seems to me ludicrous, right? Yeah. You apply more pressure now, you don't relieve it on the adversary.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
But of course, we don't treat the Russians as adversaries. We treat them as the best friend we just haven't made yet. Ukraine is our adversary.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Well, If you look at the immediate reaction to Trump's election in November, it wasn't nearly as ecstatic and celebratory as it had been in 2016. And that's because the Russians understood that, well, wait a minute, we didn't get everything we wanted out of the first Trump administration, as he himself is fond of boasting. I provided javelins to the Ukrainians. I sanctioned Nord Stream 2.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
His administration expelled more Russian spies from embassies and missions in the United States than at any point since the Cold War over the Skripal poisoning. So they were very cautious. Now, I think they are hugging themselves with glee because not only is there a strategic realignment in favor of Russia happening by the United States, but it is happening so precipitously.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And to their minds, and I think to the minds of a that they almost can't keep up. They don't even know what to do to be the proper beneficiary of all this largesse and good graces coming from Washington.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Exactly. I think that if I'm sitting in the Kremlin or the aquarium, which is the GRU headquarters, my main concern right now would be, and I don't mean to be giving the enemy advice, but I'm adjourned. I don't know that we're a ton of Russian listeners to the pod. My main concern would be trying to stop Europe from playing the spoiler role.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
that it has already begun to play and has in its capacity to play in a major key. So my argument has been to the Europeans and especially to the Ukrainians, listen, don't assume that Trump has all the cards. It's always casino metaphors, right? He doesn't. What he needs right now is, you know, Ukraine exists for him as one of two things.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Either it is an opportunity to advance his pivot toward Russia, his embrace of Russia, his bringing Russia in from the cold, or it's an obstacle to that. Right now he sees it as an obstacle. And that's a good thing because if Ukraine and Europe... by which I really mean the European Union, plus Britain, plus Norway, plus Canada, also plus Australia, and to some extent, Japan.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
I mean, the West in the collective imagination, as it were. If they are a united front, if they form a real coalition at the diplomatic and diplomatic you know, rhetorical level even. And they say to the United States, you try to impose some Fugazi deal on this war, we're going to say no, and we will keep it going. We will sustain it. We will finance it. We will send weapons.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And by the way, you know, You have an economic incentive not to punish Europe. I mean, everyone's like, what is he going to do? Tariffs on Europe? Is he going to tell the U.S.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
military industrial complex and the defense contractors that their biggest marketplace is now off limits because the French and the Brits might turn around and take attackums and Patriot batteries and just donate them to the Ukrainians? Good luck, babe. I mean, look at the lobbying effort that is going to be put in in this country to stop him from doing that. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
So Trump needs to deliver something. He cannot give the Russians something and if not everything in exchange for nothing, because as much as he's OK with appearing a lick spittle to Putin. He doesn't want to look like a chump, right? This is the art of the deal guy. Maybe too late for that, but yeah. Well, yeah, but you know, he needs to sell something, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Right now he's desperately trying to sell his base on, I can bring peace. Everyone else has brought war and destruction. There was peace when I was president. Only I can bring peace again. If he does not bring peace, because the terms of his peace are terms of conditional surrender by Ukraine unnecessarily. So then he's got nothing to show for it.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
They have the GDP to do it very easily. The question is, it's one of will, right? So the equipment shortages, the shortfall in manufacturing, all of these things can be made up for if they do what now they are beginning to make noises about having to do, increase their percent of GDP on defense spending. You know, this is another thing that we should discuss.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
For now, going back almost a decade, MAGA has been banging on about Europe as the welfare queen of NATO and bunch of freeloaders. They don't spend their fair share. We have to do everything for them. Suddenly, faced with this sort of existential crisis, this upending of 80 years of the post-war American-led security architecture, they say, we're all going to spend more.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Maybe they're not spending enough more, but they're moving in the right direction. And what happens? Rick Grinnell takes to Twitter, they're a bunch of anti-American warmongers. No, they're doing exactly what you've been saying as ambassador to Germany, among other things that they ought to be doing. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
They're just doing it in contravention of the broader policy that you have, which is, again, make nice with Moscow.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Absolutely. And so here's an interesting statistic. I'm actually going to give two versions of it because it's a little bit ambiguous. But the one version that was cited in the Wall Street Journal recently is even more optimistic for the argument I'm making. But let me let me use a version that came from a Ukrainian security official that we quoted in our piece.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
According to him, what Ukraine relies on militarily is 40 percent manufactured domestically in Ukraine. Right. 30 percent comes from the United States. Another 30 percent comes from Europe. And according to him, even if the United States cuts us off completely, it'll be bad and there'll be things that we can't source so easily. But it ain't the end of the world. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
The Russians might take more territory a little more quickly, but we're not looking at a collapse of Kiev in two weeks or a month or even necessarily six months. Right. Right. Right. Right. which is keeping the Russians at bay at the front line. That's just raw materials.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
That's stuff that can be bought on commercial markets or just investing in Ukraine's own manufacturing capability, which is growing exponentially all the time. That's the first set of statistics. The Wall Street Journal had a piece which cited, and they didn't give a source for it, but they said, actually, it's 55%. is coming from inside Ukraine already.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And then the remainder comes from the Europeans and the Americans. So just to put things in perspective, and this is another lie that Maga likes to tell, that we have given more than the Europeans. No, we haven't. Not only have we not given more than the Europeans, they have outspent us, especially in the last year when we had our supplemental freeze for six to eight months.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
But the Ukrainians themselves are standing up on their own two feet. Remember, in the Soviet period, this was the industrial hub of the Soviet Union, where all the components for their ICBMs and their tanks and everything came from Ukraine. This is not a country that lacks for engineers or technical know-how. They need money and they need, of course, the security to continue to build.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
In fact, one of the more interesting quotes in our piece comes from the CEO of Rheinmetall, Which, by the way, if you look at the stocks of European defense companies, they have gone straight through the roof in the last few weeks. Because, again, you know, American betrayal is good for business abroad.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
The CEO of Ryan Mattel said, you know, our problem isn't manufacturing more stuff here in Germany. Ironically, it's Ukrainian bureaucracy has kept us from opening new plants and factories on sovereign Ukrainian soil. So everybody's kind of in Europe rubbing their hands, seeing opportunities.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
It's about lifting some of these breaks and these obstacles in place, which are all political and bureaucratic, and allowing this production to commence. So the short answer to your question is I do think that Europe has a lot more capability than perhaps it itself would like to claim it does.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
I think his instinct is correct, which is he kind of sees the writing on the wall. I mean, I spoke to a high level source in Ukrainian intelligence just this morning to get us in what he's like, look, you guys are, you're pivoting to Russia full stop. Um, They're very clear eyed about this.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Yeah, I mean, they can't afford to rationalize and have sort of on air, you know, back and forth. And Trump is playing, you know, four dimensional chess and he's doing business. No, no, you're moving to Russia. And I think Zelensky's instinct is to say, we have lost the United States. We have to consolidate our friends who are in Europe.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And they have it more and more of a vested interest because this is happening on their doorstep. The problem is... You know, the old order is disappearing and vanishing, but we quote Alexander Herzen's greatest Russian philosopher who says, you know, when the old order dies, it leaves not an heir, but a pregnant widow.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And I think Europe now finds itself in this state of both being severely traumatized in the last weeks and also accidentally knocked up. And what is it about to give birth to here? Its own security, autonomy, or strategic autonomy, as Macron puts it. I think Zelensky is inclined to say that's the direction we need to go.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
But Starmer, Macron, Maloney, these people are saying, no, no, you have to make nice with Trump, if only just to kind of buy some breathing space and time. And so what does he do? He tweets just now and read this carefully.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
does not apologize he says it is regrettable what happened in the oval office emphasizing the importance of the ukrainian-american relationship and then he says what we are prepared to do is a truce in the sky and at sea as a preliminary for a ceasefire a proper you know ceasefire at the front meaning guns go down you know on land this idea comes from the brits and the french
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
So I read this as Zelensky's counteroffer to Trump rather than his capitulation to Trump, which is interesting because I think what Trump and MAGA want is this guy to get down on all fours and just bow down and say, yes, master, whatever you want, because then he's cowed and the Russians will see he's cowed and the Russians will just simply do a deal with Washington. He's not prepared to do that.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And I think he's being smart.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
This is what you say about a dictator whose regime you've just toppled. We're prepared to offer you amnesty or safe haven in some... I mean, it's insane. Musk, again. And it's hard to say these words, and it's much harder for people to fathom the implications of it. But our partners, our friends, our allies are now to be treated...
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
as adversaries and enemies right and it didn't just start with ukraine you know we were prepared we were flirting with going to war with denmark over greenland you know canada we're going to annex canada we're going to diminish the prime minister right now yeah yeah of a nato ally and a five eyes member and refer to him as governor you know it's like locker room abasement humiliation nothing actually for harm for nothing it's not even like we're getting a good deal out of it
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
We had a market crash. Musk has now I think he he agreed or retweeted somebody who said we should get out of NATO. You begin to see the writing on the wall here. The transatlantic relationship is dead. And, you know, whatever Trump says tonight, I don't think there's a country in this alliance, which is the greatest defensive alliance ever constructed in the history of mankind.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
There's not a country in this alliance who believes that if they were invaded tomorrow, American troops would come to the rescue under this president. I think Article 5 is dead, at least for the time being.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
I spoke also to my friend Dan Fried, ambassador to Poland, institution at the State Department, architect of sanctions, knows on a first-name basis every signatory of that letter. And I said, you know, the most impressive thing about that letter is was for Valesa to draw moral equivalence between the president of the United States and the Polish secret police under communism.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
He said, yeah, that struck me as kind of arresting as well. That's not something that's glibly or lightly done by the leader of solidarity. Yeah. In fact, I don't like it when Americans say, you know, well, this is like Stalinism, man. No. But when a Pole says, who basically led his country out from under the yoke of Soviet totalitarianism or domination, says this. You have to sit back and wonder.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And I see this as a double-blasted shotgun firing to the face of any remaining Reaganites in the Republican Party. Whether or not they're in Perda or they're living in some underground, I don't know. But they can't have missed this.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Lil Marco needs to find his big boy pants at some point or resign. If he's just going to go along with this, he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying. I mean, the look of him, he was like sinking so far into that couch. It was like that episode of Always Sunny in Philadelphia where Danny DeVito literally pops out of the couch fabric. I mean, it was humiliating for him.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And now he has to get up on cable news and say the same nonsense.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Well, I mean, I'm not read into exactly what we're doing at the offensive cyber level against Russia. I would hope it'd be quite a lot, given what they're doing to us. But, you know, one of the key components of this program is, as I said, espionage, which is very important.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
I mean, you do that even when you're in a mode of detente or you're trying to make nice because you want to know what the other side's thinking. It worries me, assuming this reporting is accurate, that we're basically choosing to become... blind and deaf to what our adversary is thinking.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
I'm also hearing very alarming things from CIA, FBI that, you know, whilst we might still collect on Russia, we're not necessarily going to do analysis on that collection. Just recently, the FBI SAC in the New York field office was forced to retire. Now, this guy is a counterintelligence specialist, which if you're based in New York means you focus mostly on Russia.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
The Russians have a huge outsized presence here in New York because of the United Nations and because of the consulate. And Riverdale is, you know, they do their own signals, intelligence collections from that part of the Bronx. And they have spies running around, going to fancy restaurants and meeting with their agents and all that.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
So suddenly it seems like we don't want to know what the Russians are doing to us. which is highly suspicious to say the least.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
Right. And that is gratuitous. If you want to have some kind of deal or some kind of grand bargain with the Russians, you still don't do that. I mean, we didn't stop spying on the Iranians when we entered into the nuclear deal, right? In fact, we probably escalated our espionage to figure out what it is that they were thinking so we could better negotiate with them.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
This is bizarre and very, very scary. And I can't emphasize that point enough. I mean, you know, it's one thing if you're not particularly concerned about what's happening in Europe, although I would suggest you should be. It's another to not care what's happening on your own planet. home turf with a hostile intelligence act.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
I mean, the largest cyber attack in history was perpetrated by the GRU, Russian military intelligence. It was called NotPetya.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
It was a piece of malware first uploaded to computer servers in Ukraine, but it spread like wildfire around the world, cost billions of dollars in damages to global commerce, and also affected hospital computers in Pennsylvania, where patients awaiting life-saving surgeries had their records deleted or frozen. So this is what the Russians do to us all the time.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
And suddenly we're like, yeah, it'll be all right. Don't worry. We don't need to check in on this.
The Bulwark Podcast
James Carville and Michael Weiss: The Whole Country Could Go Under
I told my wife I was coming on and she put the curtain over the birds. She's had to put the curtain over my head just so I'll go to sleep in the last few days. I'm sure. She's got a lot of practice keeping things quiet.