Michael Steele
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean... But there's no turning back, you're saying? I'm just here trying to make government more efficient, eliminate waste and fraud, and so far we're making good progress.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
politics, culture, you name it. We're talking about it, and we're keeping it 100% real right here on the Michael Steele Podcast. I'm Michael Steele. I'm the host of the Michael Steele Podcast. Each week, I'm having conversations with political analysts, writers, and activists who aren't afraid to shake things up a little bit like yours truly.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
It doesn't matter if you're on the left, the right, or somewhere in that strong middle. This is the space you want to be in because we cut through the noise and hit the heart of the issue. Oh, and we're definitely going to have some fun while we do it. So grab that drink, hit play, settle back, and let's get into it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Catch the Michael Steele Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast groove on.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
You need to bring a certain physicality, meaning your physical presence to this discussion so that people can have a face or faces that they see that are fighting not for their own personal interests, situation. That's part of it. But these are public servants.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
These are men and women who've been serving in these positions throughout every administration, not just Donald Trump's first term, but George Bush's, Bill Clinton's. We have this sense that the government is laden with all of these left-wing ideologues who just want to be so woke that they do all this crazy stuff. No, that's not the case.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The FBI is one of the most conservative organizations in government. There are a few wokes in there.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Because the way you do that is by leveling up what evidence you have. When you go after USAID, then put the evidence out there. And don't just cherry pick something out of a budget line that's part of a bigger budget. We can all do that. That's no reason to shut down an agency because they spend $30,000 on something you don't like out of a $100 million budget, OK?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I'm very much of the mind, yes, and always argue about looking at how we make government more efficient and work better on behalf of people. For me, that's about response times to problems, wait times on phone calls, duplicative efforts across agencies or within departments. That's not what Project 2025 is about. They don't give a shit about any of that. They just want to eliminate agencies.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And here we are now. And then seeing people all of a sudden now, do I have a job? How can he do this? Where does he get the... Bitch, please. We told you. We told you this shit was coming. We told you what Project 2025 was. So for me right now, Tim, it's just I'm very frustrated with the way the story in the last 18 or so days has kind of unfolded and the reaction to it more than anything else.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Let's be clear about why, Tim. They are doing all of this. You know why? Because next month and succeeding months, they've got to deal with re-upping of the massive Trump tax cuts. There's no money in the budget to do it. Nope. So this is what this is about. They're cleaving these agencies to pay for this tax cut. Trust me on that. This is not about, oh, we want a more efficient government.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
We're going to shut down the Department of Education. We're getting rid of USAID. We're going to streamline the FBI. All of those dollars have got to go somewhere. How do you perform the investigations that the FBI is currently involved in if you're shutting down half of the field offices? Who's doing that work? So the work goes away. The money is freed up. Where's that money going to go now?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
They both agree on blowing it up, but they think on the other side of that, The piece that they want is going to be what they get. And that's not where this, that's where the fight begins. I want to go back to the Elon Musk thing and just say this. The other mistake, I think I agree with you about Elon Musk. There's so much there to say about this guy. There's this immigrant who's taking the U.S.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, but he's still an immigrant, right? This got all of this power that he's been given. I think the strategy has to be, that's great. But Elon Musk is the bright shining object that is a distraction in some extent. Everything Elon Musk is doing has to be tied back to Donald Trump. Because this is the great setup. I give you Vivek Ramaswamy, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
When they started the old HB1 visa thing and that whole thing started to blow up, Where's Vivek? Anybody seen the brown skin guy? What happened? What happened? I thought we were partners. I thought we were all in this together. They dumped his ass so fast and make your head swim. Right. Jettison. Oh, this is a problem. Our white base is upset, right? Let's blame it on, okay, Vivek.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so Vivek's like, oh, okay, I'm gonna go run for governor. Okay, baby, you go ahead and do that, boo. The reality of it is, You have these pieces that are in place doing what they're doing with the idea that Donald Trump, at some point, should it all go sideways, goes, how did that happen? Right. Because he's done it before. And so Elon Musk, everything he's doing. Yes, I hate it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And that's because Donald Trump told you to do it. and put it back on Trump. Just don't leave it on Elon alone because trust me, Republicans and Trump are going to scapegoat him like a dog. When it goes south.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And why the crap are we polling on an unelected guy? Who the hell cares? He's not an elected official. Why are we polling on Elon Musk? Right. And the reason is, is because that negative number, that minus 46 percent or whatever, would otherwise translate to Trump. Now, look, it's a bargain for exchange. Elon Musk is getting exactly what Elon Musk's one side.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
He don't give a rat's ass if he's upside down in his popularity. He's a billionaire. He's the richest man in the world. What does he care, right? He's got control over the contracting system of the federal government. The Doge isn't looking into his NASA contracts.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The Doge is not going to recommend that the government streamline the excesses in those contracts, because trust me, there's a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse in those contracts. But they're not going to carve that out. The man made $400 million. On inauguration day, right? This is all about how he's going to make more money. The bargain for exchange is, I'll do what you need me to do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I just want to be the world's first trillionaire. And all those other motherfuckers sitting behind Trump at that inauguration, they want a piece of that too. So just need to be clear-eyed about what's happening in front of us. So when the whole thing collapses, we know why.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
on to another trump thing gaza uh you know it's like sometimes like what do you what do you even fucking do with some of this shit but trump uh trump uh it was the other night folks let me just say when tim starts muttering under his breath it's not it's not a good it's not good trust me it's not good
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And it's typical Trump bullshit because it ain't happening. You know why it's not happening? Because the Saudis have already said it's not happening. And there's not a deal that's going to get cut in which Jordan is going to say, oh, yeah, give us more Palestinians. All right. It's just not happening.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But Trump throws it out there and he throws it out there in such a way that, you know, as you rightly noted, you look at the face of Bibi and Susie Wiles and go, did that shit just happen? Did he say, you know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of that moment when he did the presser. in which he said, yeah, well, you can take the bleach and you can inject it in your system.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And he looked over at, what's her name? Deborah Birx. Yeah, Dr. Birx. And she's like putting her head down, go, I know this mother, just not say put bleach in your arm, right? That was that moment. That was the exact same scenario. Here's the deal. Again, you get sucked into the rabbit hole talking about Gaza, right? in the way that Trump wants to do Gaza.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Folks, stop for a moment and say to yourself, how does that stabilize the Middle East? How does having Trump Casino on the Gaza Strip and making Gaza the Riviera of the Middle East, how does that stabilize the region? You think Hamas is going to just say, oh, a beach club. Shit, I can get a tan.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I got the burqa that, you know, lets the sun rise. The burqini? The burqini. I got my burqini.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I love Tim. And this is why Tim was a good comms guy when he was at the RNC. And this is why he's been a great comms guy since. is because that's exactly what you do. That's exactly what you do. That's why I was just saying in the little bit before about, you know, yeah, all right, in the Senate, play hardball.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Put these guys in the box where they have to account for the bullshit that's coming out of this man's mouth. Yes, I would absolutely sponsor the bill and put it on the floor on the committee and say, okay, that's what he wants to do. I think that's a great idea. I'm all about even naming it. Trump Hotel and Casino Gaza. Let's do it. We'll budget for it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And let's let's appropriate to get to get the feasibility studies and all that in place. Two hundred and fifty million dollars. Let's just do that. And watch how plastic collapses.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, it's real. It's real work. And then, you know, all the other stuff like the relocation of two million people, the countries that won't take them, the terrorist organizations that won't go away. All of that shit will just dissipate once we start construction on the Trump Hotel and Casino Gaza.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
All right. So I listened to that. And, you know, Candy Girl here is just she's just so she's so just so sweet and yummy to listen to. So delicious. So I responded back. But on day one. Trump told us, quote, I want on groceries, very simple word, groceries. We're going to bring those prices way down, end quote. Trump, I want my prices at the grocery pump to go down now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Right. What the fuck is a grocery... Anyway, at the grocery pump, I can't afford the eggs I need to put into my tank. Because that's what you do. Okay, so this is what you're telling me. So... Look, folks, Trump has already told us he doesn't know how he's bringing grocery prices down because he can't. It's too hard. He's now admitted that. But we knew that. You knew that back in November.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
You knew exactly what you were doing with your vote. And the layup about, oh, my God, the price of eggs, you knew it was bullshit then. And it still is. Because if you don't know anything about your own personal market, you know that you adjust. You did. You know how I know you adjusted? Because a lot of y'all asses went on a very nice long vacation during the summer.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
In the midst of all of the so-called high prices, you took a break. And you packed up those eggs, and you went with your family someplace nice. And that's OK. And I just think now all of this doublespeak bullshit coming out of this White House about, oh, well, we're cutting this and we did that. There's no plan here. There never has been.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Because there are things that are affecting the price of eggs that have nothing to do with Joe Biden or Donald Trump. There's a little thing called bird flu. Little thing where you got to put down 2 million chickens.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of that moment where Jesus looks at Peter and he goes, dude, before the cock goes two times, you're going to deny my ass. And he was like, oh, hell no. I will die for you. What are you talking about? Right. Next thing you know, hey, Peter, you were with him. Now, I don't even know who he is. Right. That's these Republicans.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
If you go back in time and you told them this is what you would do. Oh, no, there's no way in hell. But we know now their nature. We know now who they are. They have been exposed for what they are. And just as Christ knew the nature of Peter in that moment, we know their nature. And so I'm not surprised.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I said weeks ago that all of these, after the whole thing with our boy from Florida went down, once they got him off the docket, It was clear sailing. They weren't sacrificing anybody else. This is my frustration with Democrats. I still think Gates would have got through, too, by the way. You know what, Tim?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, look, I'm all about grace and all of that stuff, but I know the thing that's in front of me. I know what it is. It has exposed itself time and time again. It tells me over and over again what it is. There is no redemptive feature here. There is no, oh, gee, gosh, I'm sorry. I should be that kind of president as opposed to this kind of president that I am.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, I totally agree with that. I thought that the weakest of all of them was Tulsi Gabbard because she cut the closest to the things that Republicans seemingly still care the most about. And that is the whole national security piece. So her narrative in that space was bad for a Donald Trump has already told them, well, if you don't go with her, I'm going to primary you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And once you tell them that, they're like, oh, shit, no, I can't afford to be primary because this is the most important thing I've ever done in my life. And I cannot give this up because it's all about me. F the country. I don't give a shit about the country. She can tell Putin whatever she wants as long as I get reelected and don't have a primary. That's what this crew is about.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
That's what their leadership is. It is pathetically sad. the level of pussydom that they have created.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Different words are banned. And God knows if you say DEI, that's like saying the N word. So just be careful.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I'm good, baby boy. How you doing, man? Well...
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The presidential election or the chair's election? The chair's election. So two weeks ago. And I thought Chairman Wickler out of Wisconsin said, would be a better fit for this moment? Because this moment aligns a lot like it did for me in 2009 after the loss in 06 and 08, a really bad brand for the party. You have a very popular president sitting down on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
They have the House, the Senate. So then how do you now figure out the strategy to begin to claw back the narrative? My hope is that he brings... He's the chairman of Minnesota, the Minnesota party, and apparently... is a good tactician in that regard, in that space. He's going to need that, I think, to put in place some tacticals.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
If he levels up a 50-state strategy, if he starts with branding and messaging at the grassroots, in his first test case will be two states that are going to be important this November, Virginia and New Jersey, especially Virginia, which is going to have a very I think, interesting and hotly contested race for governor between Spanberger and Winsome, Lieutenant Governor Winsome.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So you're going to have an opportunity to see how your messaging plays in Northern Virginia, which went slightly red in the last election, and how you can then translate that more broadly across the country. This is not just about, oh, you know, raising a lot of money and that's important. Your problem isn't money. Your problem is message and the fact that people don't think you're credible.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so that's going to be an important first test, how you begin to claw back credibility. To be honest, you're not being helped by your members in the House and Senate. So I'm just letting you know.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I should actually not look to blow up the federal government. But as true conservatives has always argued, let's look at how we can make it function better and not overreach. Right. And that's not what this has ever been about. It has never been about that. And there are a lot of people who know that now, knew that then.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
They didn't have a reason to vote for Kamala. They really didn't. I mean, outside of, you know, certain narratives, there was nothing that gravitationally pulled the American people away from it. And it goes back to the joke, you know, we've been talking about the price of eggs and all that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But look, if voters find a reason to stay in a space and you know it's not a real space, it's not a legitimate space, that there are other things that they need to take into consideration and to move them,
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
If you don't create that conversation, if you don't give them that appreciation that, yes, it is the thing that you're holding on to, the price of eggs, whatever, but these are other things that you need to contextualize, they're going to stay where they are. And when you talk to voters afterwards, they pretty much told you, I didn't have a reason to move.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so throughout that campaign, the question is, how do you move the narrative with voters? That's always been the problem. for this administration going back to the very beginning. The last administration. The Biden administration, yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. Was going back to the very beginning.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
That's why I alluded to, you know, Joe Manchin and his, you know, tying people up in knots for 18 months over something like the filibuster. And the American people are going, who's Phil? Who's Buster? And what did they do? Why is everybody so mad at them, right? Not understanding what the fight was about. And the Democrats are fighting over process, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Donald Trump is out here just slinging a wing and saying, that's your problem. They're focused on process. I'm just going to go in and blow it all up. And so when people become frustrated with the process, the idea of blowing it all up is really appealing. Yeah. And no one ever corrected for that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so, yeah, when you're sitting there looking at the numbers, they were telling you one thing, but voters were saying something else on the ground, just as they did in 2016. And I just felt that all the efforts that folks like you and me in working with Democrats in the democracy space, they still didn't get what the fight was about.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
bring uh you know doing Patrick Mahomes anyway it's you know they're not all fire it's a it's not all they're not firing on all cylinders there I don't they're not and and people think that's endearing they just think uh well that's just Trump being Trump well you know yeah I guess the town idiot is just the town idiot and you just everybody just rolls by that's nice if we
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And for me, I just can't go down this merry lane that, oh, now let's just try to understand and be nice when that's not what this bitch is about. And as I said about Hakeem Jeffries, that's my boy. I'll roll with Hakeem. I appreciate his leadership.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I kissed Zac Efron. Same thing. I had to coach him a little tongue action.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But I'm sorry, when you're handing over the gavel, you don't look at the thing in front of you that tried to overturn the last election and was in the back room fomenting insurrection and say, we're going to now lay down our swords and pick up our bipartisan plowshares. He's going to take that plowshare and shove it up your ass because that's what they're about.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And I wish the hell people would get that shit in their head and understand this thing is not democracy. This thing is not democratic, small d. This thing is not the expression of what the founders wanted. In fact, this thing is what our founders warned us against. And I just, in this moment, am fed up with everybody's bullshit.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
excuse making, cry babying, wringing of their hands and not understanding, use the damn system against them. I don't know why the hell Chuck Schumer is the minority leader in the Senate. He shouldn't be because he's gotten punked every which way from Sunday by the Republicans. You think you're going to get something different?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
In this iteration, John Thune is not Mitch McConnell in many respects, but John Thune is going to do what? What John Thune wants to do? Or what Donald Trump wants him to do? Tim, I don't...
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
understand why folks continue to pretend that if, if I say it nicer and if I go visit him and if I, if I plead or cajole or pretend with him, that somehow Donald Trump is going to turn around and go, you know, I appreciate that. So let me, let me play nice with you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
It sucks real hard right now. I'm at a point where I'm frustrated and angry at the same time with the way storylines have played out with no response. And it is galling and mind numbingly stupid to me that we see the arrogance and disregard of this administration, the leveling up of the menagerie of misfits to be secretaries of fill in the blank and directors of national intelligence.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I don't know. You know, I live in the world, Tim. My political experience that I learned many years ago from the likes of Marion Barry and Joey O'Dell and others here growing up in Washington, D.C., is... Words are meaningless. It's dude, show me what you got. Show me what you got. You know, because I can tell you anything.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But if I'm going to smack you upside the head after the conversation, that tells me everything. Right. So I hear the, you know, maybe we can do this or do that. Just do it. Don't don't telegraph it. Don't talk about it. Just do it. Look, Tim, this is where I come from. For 18 months, Joe Manchin tied up the Biden administration over the filibuster and a whole host of other bullshit.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Wouldn't let this bill go through. Held up that. Tommy Tuberville, perhaps the dumbest member of the United States Senate, held up over 200 DOD appointments. Generals, people we needed out in the field for how long? By himself. By himself. And we got Democrats sitting here trying to figure out, oh, gee, I don't know what we can do to stop Kash Patel or Tulsi Gabbard's appointment. Yes, you do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So don't talk to me about how bad it is. We know how bad it is. Damn it. Do something. Even if you slow the roll at the end, the outcome is, yes, they get through. At least you slow the roll of the process and you let them put down the marker. that this appointment is an abomination. It is bad for the country. We know what Kash Patel is going to do at the FBI. Why do we know that?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Because he told us, not once, but over a 10-year period. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Tim, that is exactly what the play is. It has always been the play. They couldn't get it in gear. in the last term, they had four years to sit down and figure out what the mechanisms were. I participated in a number of efforts to sort of war game their strategies during that time and what it potentially would look like.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So I'm not surprised at this because along with a number of other folks, we looked at, okay, if Trump comes back, what does he do? And this is exactly what we figured he would do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The problem is that those other institutional responses from the United States Congress to individual agencies has not played out the way we thought they would, that there would be a more aggressive response to this fact. This fundamentally is the play. We're just going to do it. And I've said this over the years about Donald Trump is something I learned about him for the first time.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I worked with him back in 2013. He will always, always do what he wants to do until you stop him. It's not complicated. Yeah, not complicated. It's not. And the reason he does it, Tim, because he doesn't believe you can stop him. And so that's the arrogance that he brings to this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But that arrogance has got to be met with an equal arrogance, which is why I love the president of Mexico, because she was like, all right, bitch, bring it on. You want you want to put tariffs on me? Cool. Because Donald Trump didn't think Canada and Mexico would respond the way they did. Because what did he say when he put out that that executive order talking about the tariffs? I dare you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And there doesn't seem to be a counter narrative, let alone counter efforts to expose this bullshit for what it is. And it's frustrating because I feel like folks like you, myself and others are out here clang the bell, the warning bell saying, guys, don't do this. Trust me. It's not the price of eggs. Okay. I hear you, but it's not the price of eggs. That's the least of your problems.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And they were like, OK. And to be honest, I think Canada kind of followed the lead of Mexico because she wasn't playing. She's been tough. She wasn't playing. So that's at the core of this is exactly that. We're going to do it until you stop us. And by the time you get to stopping us, we will have already messed it up so badly. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
What are you afraid of if you're already losing your job?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The reality of it is lawsuits are not visuals. I can't see your lawsuit. I'm not in court. I don't want to be in court. But when your ass is standing outside of the FBI building or you've got federal workers who are protesting in local offices or trying to get into a building that they work in, physically involving themselves in trying to get the nation's attention on what's happening to them.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
That's an important visual. The next visual is going to come at a very, very profoundly personal level. When your ass tries to access government services, that you need Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Texas, et cetera.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So what are you going to do then? Because that's when it hits you, because you think, oh, shutting down the government. Yes, just do it. Well, OK, who's going to process your Social Security payment? Who's going to process the case that you had trying to get services and help for your parents or for your family member? But that office is now shut down. What are you going to do?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Who are you going to call? You're going to call that member of Congress who's sitting there going, yes, more, please. Who are you going to call? So that becomes the next level of reality here. I agree with you a thousand percent.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich weiß nicht, wie es dort läuft, aber er sagte, dass sie nicht viel Unterstützung von ihrer Institution hat, aber sie versucht, Ärzte aus dem ganzen Weltraum zu holen, die Tätigkeiten, die für rarte Krankheiten gearbeitet haben, in ihre, es heißt CureID, und Gott weiß, wo es hingeht. Also habe ich sie dafür angerufen, um zu sehen, ob sie eine Geschichte war.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und diese Geschichte am Ende des Buches ist sie. And it's not the story of government success. It's the story of what should happen. This thing she's created should work. Now, it does so happen that she personally intercedes to save the life of a little girl in Arkansas who's got it. And how that happens is amazing and serendipitous and requires lots of accident.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
But at the same time, at exactly the same time, another very little girl in Northern California contracted it and the doctors never heard about it and she died. But what I loved about Heather Stone was like, All by herself, for all kinds of deep personal motives.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
She was trying to spin up, which should be a massive operation, and was kind of meeting resistance because of our hostility to government. She's still there. You asked me, let me answer the question you asked at the top. What's happened to these characters? Like, you read all of them and you think, I want that person in government. I mean, it's just a no-brainer. And two of them have resigned.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Meine beiden fühlen sich beide auf Tenderhooks und als ob ihre Arbeit jeden Tag weggehen könnte. Und die anderen, ich denke, ich habe mit allen von ihnen gesprochen, sie wollen nicht mehr viel Interaktion mit den Schriftführern haben, die über sie geschrieben haben.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Sie wollen die Aufmerksamkeit nicht mehr. Es ist so, als ob sie die Aufmerksamkeit in erster Linie nicht mehr wollten. But it's like, really, don't write about me now.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
I mean, it's disastrous, but it's interesting watching how they're going about what they're doing. Because quite obviously, they come in not knowing anything or very much.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
But that's believable. Whether it's true or not, it's sort of believable. But they come in... Und das war der Punkt der Serie. Das ist der Punkt des Buches. Sie kommen sehr klar mit diesem wirklich dummen Stereotyp in ihrem Kopf, was diese Regierungsleute sind. Sie sind einfach wasserdrückend. Sie sind gegräbt, sie sind korruptiert, sie sind tief im Staat.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Sie sind da, um Donald Trump von allem zu verhindern, was er tun will. Und es ist so nicht, wer sie sind. They're so like mostly nonpartisan people doing, performing missions tasks that we've all agreed need to be done. And the point of story was like, explode this stereotype.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Like you will see over and over again, people who do not conform to this really stupid, lazy idea in one's head of what a federal worker is. And if you explore the stereotype, maybe they'll hesitate a little bit. bevor sie stupide Dinge machen, wie zum Beispiel alle Verwaltungsarbeiter ausführen, was sie gemacht haben. Und es hat natürlich nicht funktioniert.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Die einzige Art und Weise, wie Sie durch dieses Gebiet gehen, ist, wenn Sie vollständig ignoriert sind, wer die Leute sind und was sie tun. Und wir haben gesehen, sie haben Leute ausgeführt, die sie sofort erkannt haben, dass sie zurückgehören mussten. Aber die Verwaltungsarbeiter sind, es gibt ein paar Dinge, die in den Mikrofond gestanden sind. Wir können nicht so viel machen wie Elon.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Nein, lass uns das machen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
I mean, the list of disturbing things is so long, but the ones that maybe not have been as attended to as they should have, the probationary workers, the 50,000 workers, these are people who were in their first year of government service.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
That might be true.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Okay, so you know more about it than I do. But what I do know is that, so there's this period where you don't have, you can just be fired at will, simply, easily. You don't have to go through some process to fire this person. So because they were fireable, they got fired. But think about who those people must be. Almost certainly, they skew extremely young.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Like these are the young people coming into government, which is what we desperately need. I mean, here's a stat for you. In information technology, like the computer systems, Nur 4 % der Mitarbeiter im federalen Regierung sind unter dem Alter von 30 Jahren. 50 % sind über dem Alter von 50 Jahren.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das bedeutet, dass ein riesiges Anzahl von Leuten, die die IT-Systeme betreffen, nicht wissen, wie sie ihre Telefonen nutzen. Sie schießen also die jungen Leute ab. Und wer sonst schießen sie ab? Sie schießen jemanden ab, der für einen offiziellen Grund gebeten wurde. Wir brauchen diese Person jetzt. Wir brauchen diesen Ingenieur jetzt auf diesem Job, weil das etwas ist, was wir tun müssen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Die Person ist dann noch auf Probe und wird gefeuert. Es ist also fast genau so, wer du nicht feuern möchtest. Es ist nicht der totale Wald, der 20 Jahre lang reingeholt hat. Die zweite Sache ist, das ist, wie ich dachte, das erste Zeichen. Sie kamen und sagten, Waste, Fraude und Verbrechen und all das. Wenn du wirklich interessiert bist für Fraude,
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
The person you want to go right to and harness and empower is the inspector general of every one of these agencies. They're the cop on the beat. They operate independently from the agency. They speak directly, they can speak directly to Congress. They're there to scare the hell out of the people who are in the agency and prevent them from waste, fraud and abuse.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Sie kamen rein und führten alle Inspektor-General. Was das tut, ist das Gegenteil. Was sie tun, scheint das Gegenteil zu sein, was sie sagen. Was sie in diesem Fall gemacht haben, ist, Wastefraud und Verbrechen zu ermöglichen. Es ist also interessant, als intellektuelles Ausdruck zu versuchen, herauszufinden, was sie versuchen, zu erreichen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Abandon is strong. Abandon is very strong. I'm there all the time.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich denke, es ist ein Gumbo, um die New Orleans-Metapher zu verwenden. Okay. Der Grund, warum es so schwer ist, alles mit einer einfachen Theorie zu erklären, ist, dass es mehr als eine Sache gibt. Hier sind einige der Dinge im Gumbo. Der Reis ist das Unwissen. Ich meine, du kannst nicht, du hast nicht das Gumbo ohne die Beine. Du könntest nichts davon tun, wenn du eigentlich sehr viel wusste.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Du würdest dich schießen. Aber das Unwissen ist eine Präcondition. Und die Hostilität und der Malus sind eine Präcondition. Aber eins... versucht, den föderalen Arbeitsplatz zu politisieren und ihn zu weppen, sodass es ein Instrument ist, das nur da ist für die politische Nutzung von Donald Trump.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Also alles, was mit Donald Trumps politischen Interessen interferieren würde, muss gesquasht werden, was nicht der Fall ist, wie der föderale Arbeitsplatz von jedem anderen Präsidenten genutzt wird. Das ist also nur ein Ingrédient in dem Gumbo. Zweitens, alles, was Elon Musks Unternehmen durchführt. Regulierung. Und es ist nicht nur Elon Musk. Die Konstellation der Technik-Billionäre.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und wahrscheinlich Wall Street Leute.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Da bist du. Das ist wahrscheinlich richtig. Einer der Charaktere im Buch, Geraldine Brooks hat ein schönes Buch über ihn geschrieben, Jared Koopman, ist ein totaler Stuhl eines Cyberkriegskopfs innerhalb der IRS. who has raked in like billions of dollars for the United States government by busting cybercrime rings, broke up child sex trafficking operations. I mean, he's like, he's a superhero.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Also like a black belt. Someone Elon Musk would not want to be in a ring with. And they gutted his unit. And it's like, this is a hugely profitable enterprise and doing like nothing but simple good in the world.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
It's costing billions of dollars. So why would you do that? Well, the reason is in the name of the unit. Cybercrime. You don't... You've let cyber criminals out of jail. You've given pardons to cyber criminals. You are courting the cyber world, the crypto world, and they don't like this sort of police. So that's another threat of it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
It's like just the narrow business interests of some now very influential people. But it doesn't explain all of it. None of that really explains the Department of Education being whacked. Sie erzählen eine Geschichte darüber, dass es für Kulturschäden gezwungen wird. Es ist wach und es erzählt allen Staaten, wie man in den Schulen lehnt. Aber das ist nicht, was es tut. Es ist ein großer Bank.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das ist die Übertragung von reichen zu niedrigen Bereichen. Es subsidiert die Schule der niedrigen Kinder. Viele der niedrigen Kinder sind in rüren Amerika. Es ist eine direkte Subsidie für die rote Amerika. Und zwar nicht offensichtlich in Donald Trumps politischen Interessen, weil sie Geld von seiner Basis wegschneiden.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
So I think the other ingredient is this guy, this dude, and I don't know how to pronounce his name because I've heard it pronounced two ways. Russell Vaught or Russell Vote. The guy at OMB who is one of the architects of Project 2025 and who's got a kind of libertarian attitude that there's too much government, we just got to get rid of government.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And it sounds really good until you actually see what the government's doing and what happens if you remove it. And then you can start having a grown-up conversation. But it's like he's never had the grown-up conversation. And some of it might not make sense, but it's so crude.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
He seems to be an ingredient in the gumbo, because I can't, knowing Trump's total indifference to the bureaucracy, I can't imagine he cares all that much about the Department of Education. Die letzte Sache, dann werde ich aufhören.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Die letzte Sache, die durch all das durchläuft, oder es unterpinnt, ist, dass ich glaube, Donald Trump, eine andere Schlüssel, um zu präsentieren, was er tun wird, ist, wo immer es Vertrauen gibt, zu finden und es zu zerstören. Und der Grund ist taktisch, der Grund für das. Er selbst ist völlig untrustvoll. Er lügt immer, er schießt Leute aus, er zahlt ihnen Geld, all das.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Bankruptierte sechs Unternehmen, all das. Und er ist nicht wirklich so vertraut. Und er hat eine Schwierigkeit in einem Umfeld, in dem es um hohe Vertrauen geht. Wenn man ein paar Leute in einem Raum setzt und sie sich vertrauen, werden sie schnell Donald Trump ausdrücken.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Aber wenn er ein Spielfeld kreiert, in dem es keine Vertrauen gibt und niemand anderen vertrauen kann, hat er eine Art taktische Vorteile, weil er so gut bei unvertrautem Verhalten ist. Und ich denke, viel davon ist ein Tier, Lizard, Gehirninstinkt. Versteckt euch von irgendwelchen Dingen, die Leute vertrauen, denn das wird für mich eine Schwierigkeit erzeugen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und ich weiß, dass wir denken, dass niemand dem Regierung vertraut. Und wenn man es so sagt, dann tun sie es. Aber es gibt riesige Mengen des Governments, die die Leute einfach nicht wahrnehmen. Sie vertrauen die Wetterberichte. Das ist wie, wow, ich lebe meinen Tag durch dieses Ding. Ich muss es vertrauen. Obwohl es radikal falsch ist, was es selten ist. Ich denke, ich sollte es nicht vertrauen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
But he's trying to gut the National Weather Service. Like, why would you do this? He has some private interests there that he's serving, but also it's like he smells trust and he wants to get rid of it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das ist in Ordnung mit mir. Du hast nichts gesagt, was mein Gehirn auf Red Alert gebracht hat. Das klingt alles sehr sinnvoll. Ich meine, es gibt mehr als einen solchen Silicon Valley Nerd. Natürlich.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Eines der Dinge über diesen Strain von Leuten ist, dass sie nicht aufhören, richtig? Sie machen Manifestos, sie geben Gespräche, sie tweeten immer. Sie haben nie aufhören. Ich wundere, wie sie ihren Job machen, weil sie immer aufhören sprechen. And they have a crowd of people who are approve of them, who I guess celebrate what they say. And this is just me talking.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Maybe I'm not the world's greatest expert on what's interesting and what's not. But I keep looking for them to say something interesting. Like, oh... Oh, ich hatte das nicht gedacht, oder oh, niemand hat das je gesagt. Oder oh, das ist sowohl wahr und interessant.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und ich habe das Gefühl mit ihnen immer, dieses Gefühl, ich will ihnen sagen, was du gesagt hast, ist wahr und interessant, aber leider sind die Teilen, die wahr sind, nicht interessant, und die Teilen, die interessant sind, nicht wahr. Ich bin überrascht, wie dumm sie sind. Das ist das Ding.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und die Antiken, wie Elon Musk, wie er sich trägt, wie er sein Kind um die Schulter trägt, wie er ein Mini-Mini ist, der Chainsaw, all that stuff. It's all like putting a lampshade on your head at the party because you actually don't have anything witty to say. And it all feels like that. He's the dude walking around with a lampshade on his head.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And, I mean, has he ever said anything funny in his life? I don't know. Maybe.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Yeah, there you go. You can make a seven-year-old laugh. It's just... Oh, it's like a stink bomb at the party. Like, do I really want to have to listen to this person? Will you shut up? Like, there's so much more interest out there. And this is like one of the side effects of this political movement. I think of all the interesting people in the country.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Good to see you, Tim. This is maybe the first interview I've ever done where the host is in New Orleans.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
I mean, it is amazing that, you know, the range of artistic expression and it all gets kind of drowned out. von diesen Leuten mit Lampen auf ihren Händen, die an der Spitze ihrer Lungen schreien. Und ich frage mich einfach, an welchem Punkt jeder einfach müde wird, weil es so müde ist.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und, auf jeden Fall, Ihr Punkt, dass es eine Verzweiflung in Silicon Valley gibt, und Sie haben die Leute genannt, die die leitenden Lichter dieses Bewegungs sind, die ein Folgendes bekommen haben, das sich irgendwie an Donald Trump verbindet. Das ist wahr. Es wäre schön, eine seriöse Gespräche zu haben. Ich würde gerne mit Peter Thiel sitzen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Physically inside one of the departments of government and go piece by piece through what that department is doing and have him say, like, let's just have a conversation about why this is necessary, why it happened in the first place, why we're doing this. Ich würde gerne in der Energie-Departement starten, denn ohne die Energie-Departement würde Tesla nicht auf dem Boden kommen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich kann mich nicht erinnern, wie groß der Lohn war, aber ich glaube, es waren hunderttausende Millionen Dollar in Lohn- oder Lohn-Garantien für Tesla, die Elon Musk damals gesagt haben, dass er auf dem Boden kommen würde. Und Tesla-Employee haben gesagt, dass die Firma nie existieren würde, wenn die Regierung nicht reinkommen würde.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
So much of just technological growth, economic growth, springs from public-private partnerships. It springs from the government interceding in the economy. And that they have been direct beneficiaries of this and are still.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Not from there. Not from there, no. Walter has interviewed me, but in person in New York.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
and that they don't acknowledge it and want to go gut the things that actually made us all rich and made them rich, that's where it gets really bewildering and I'd like to have the conversation. Like, just explain yourself. Elon, you're the richest man in the world because this government came and helped you.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
There's one other thing that is bewildering to me and it'd be nice to have like, this would be like a A small group of people we all agreed were masterful at running big institutions. Like the dude who runs Microsoft. Clearly some kind of genius. People who, CEOs, types, heads of large organizations, maybe even a coach of a football team. And would sit around a table and would say...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Wie viele von euch haben es erzielt, indem sie ins Spiel gegangen sind und die Mitarbeiter oder Spieler verurteilt haben und ihnen gesagt haben, dass sie Idioten waren, dass sie sich für sie verurteilt haben, dass sie sich für sie verurteilt haben, dass sie sich für sie verurteilt haben, dass sie sich verurteilt haben, Und ich denke, sie sagen alle, du würdest das nie machen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das ist das Gegenteil, was du tust, wenn du etwas gut runntest. Die einzige Person, die ich kenne, die das gemacht hat, ist Elon Musk auf Twitter. Und es ist eine Art Katastrophe. Ich meine, die Leute, die mit ihm investiert haben, sind nicht glücklich. Das ist ein anderes Kind von Gespräch. Wir haben es nicht. Es ist wie ein Harvard Business School Case Study, wie man nicht etwas runnt.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Can I ask you a question? Please. I'm just dying to know, because you're living in my hometown. How do you feel my hometown is doing? How do you feel about New Orleans these days?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
I don't think I'd do what I do if I grew up in Topeka. I think I grew up in a... And I notice it even now. I think it was even more so when I was a kid. But when I land there, as I'm going to land there in a week, Vielen Dank. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich musste nicht ein Buch schreiben, ich wurde von der Neuen Republik ausgesucht, um die 96-Kampagne zu beenden. Das Zentrum von Dingen, Dole vs. Clinton, war so dumm und so kontrolliert, dass ich eine Art und Weise gefunden habe, es mit einer anderen Stimme umzusetzen. Konventionell würde es schmerzhaft sein.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich habe ihn angerufen und gesagt, ich mache das nur als Reise-Log und lasse mich nur dort gehen, wo ich es interessant finde, anstatt dort zu gehen, wo die Kampagne mich sagt. und es hat in der Neuen Republik geklappt. Es war großartig. Ich habe den Hauptcharakter, Maureen Taylor, gemacht und habe auch in der republikanischen Verteidigung gespielt.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und die Verzweiflung war, dass niemand wirklich etwas über Clinton oder Dole sagt. Es gibt keine Leidenschaft um einen von ihnen. Aber es gibt all diese Leidenschaft um all diese marginalen Kandidaten. Ich meine, einige waren nicht so marginal, wie Pat Buchanan. Und Du konntest die politischen Leidenschaften in diesem Land durch diese Kandidaten, besser als durch die Hauptkampagne.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und natürlich ist es auch mehr Spaß. Es funktioniert so gut und es war grundsätzlich kohärent, weil es nur mein politischer Reiseplan war, dass wir es als Buch herausgebracht haben. Aber du hast recht. Es war sehr schwer, nach der Kampagne ein Buch zu verkaufen. Allen Keys und Maury Taylor. Aber auch nur über das Event. Niemand will über die 96. Präsidenten-Kampagne lesen. Aber ich liebe es, Mann.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Es war so viel Spaß. Ich möchte nicht zu viel darüber reden, aber ich muss sagen, es war einer dieser Momente in meinem Schriftleben, wo ich bemerkt habe, dass man mit der Bedeutung nichts investieren kann, nur durch es zu beobachten.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Du konntest den Leser nehmen, der dazu gekommen ist, dass er über Clinton und Dahl lesen wollte, wo auch immer du sie nehmen wolltest, wenn du genügend kompetent warst. Wenn ich nicht über Maureen Taylor geschrieben hätte, wären die Leute überrascht. Das war lustig.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das ist völlig wahr. Maury Taylor ist definitiv ein Proto-Trump. Er ist ohne Mächtigkeit und ohne Weisheit, ohne irgendetwas. Du kennst ihn und du weißt, dass er im Grunde eine süße Person ist. Aber er kommt von einer Position aus, die von niemandem weiß, was Governance angeht. Seine Qualifikationen haben er schon gewonnen. Er war CEO von Titan, Tire and Wheel.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ein sehr erfolgreicher Geschäftsführer. Aber er hat diese sehr erfolgreichen Geschäftsführer, die Resistenz zu der Idee haben, dass die Regierung irgendetwas nützliches macht. Und wenn du all diese verschiedenen Charaktere, Ansichten der Welt zusammengepackt hast, You just got a fuller portrait of where America was politically. So as a result, you can see where we are now.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Then, you're just looking at Clinton and Dole, you'd never guess what would happen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Briefly, let me explain the project. Together with David Shipley, the former opinion editor of the Washington Post, I went out and hired writers I just loved. And they aren't conventional journalists. Most of them are sort of performers, novelists, people who are really talented at making material entertaining.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
It was Sarah Val, Dave Eggers, Kamau Bell, John Lanchester, Geraldine Brooks, and Casey Sepp. A wide variety of voices, basically. Dropped them into the government and said, just find a story. And I did this because I had written a book während Trump 1, der fünfte Risiko, wo ich einfach überrascht war, wie qualitativ das Material in der Regierung ist.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich meine, Trump hat mich dazu geworfen, daran interessiert zu werden. Und ich habe nicht erwartet, dass die Qualität der Charaktere, die da waren, die Bedeutung der Mission. Ich meine, man kann überlegen, was die Regierung tun sollte, aber wir alle stimmen, dass sie einige Dinge tun sollte. Und es gibt Orte, wo Leute Dinge tun, die niemand anderes tun wird.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und du bist nur dankbar, dass sie sie tun. Und sie sind großartige Charaktere und sie kennen ihre Charaktere nicht. And their stories never get told for a whole bunch of reasons, which we can talk about if you want to get into that. So we launched these real talented writers at this beast. I did two of the eight pieces. And they're long. I mean, my first was like 13,000 words. And out came...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Wie eine wunderschöne Reihe von Geschichten. Also habe ich geschrieben. Der erste Teil des Buches geht um einen Mann namens Chris Mark, der das Problem der Kohle-Miner-Rüben löst, die auf die Hände der Kohle-Miner fallen, was sehr komisch klingt, aber es ist ein Problem, das 50.000 Kohle-Miner in Amerika zerstört.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Aber ich glaube, das ist das, wo es wirklich interessant wird. Es ist wie was in den Kohle-Mining-Markten passiert ist. Das hat das Problem verursacht. Mein Charakter ist ein Historiker in seinem eigenen Bereich. Er zeigt, dass Technologie entwickelt wurde, damit sie die Technologie in West-Virginia viel sicherer machen können. Und was sie mit der Technologie gemacht haben, ist...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
die Kohle teurer machen, während sie den gleichen Risiko behalten. Sie hatten eine Arbeitskraft auf einem bestimmten Niveau der Mordhaltung. Und sie haben es einfach dort gehalten. Und die Kultur war eine Art macho-Kultur. Es ist wie der Risiko, den man mit der Kohlemine übernimmt.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Chris Mark, mein Charakter, zeigt, dass es tatsächlich nicht bis zu dem Zeitpunkt war, dass die Regierung mit Verbrechen, wenn sie die Technologie nicht richtig benutzt hat, und mit... die Sachen, die er herausfindet, wie man die Technologie benutzt, um den Ruf von dem Fallen zu halten, dass die Sicherheitsrechner beginnen zu verbessern. Aber ich glaube nicht, dass das in jeder Industrie passiert.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Aber ich denke, dass die Kohlemine eine so kompetitive Industrie ist, dass sie so schädlich kostet. Und es gibt viele kleine Kohlemine, sodass niemand denjenigen will, um das Geld zu sparen, um es sicher zu machen. Und die Bevölkerung der Arbeiter war nicht sensibel zu kleinen Veränderungen in der Sicherheit. Der ganze Grund, weshalb es ein Regierungsproblem war. Aber anyway, das ist einer.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Sarah Val, mit der du später sprechen wirst. Ich lasse das auf einer Seite, weil sie über die Nationalen Archive geschrieben hat und eine Frau, die sie runtern hilft. Ein Stück, das völlig unerwartet war. John Lanchester, den ich einfach liebte. Englischer Schriftsteller.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Er kam rein und sagte, ich weiß, dass du mich wahrscheinlich über die Person reden möchtest, aber mein Charakter ist der Konsumpreisindex. Er sagte, es ist grundlegend für das Vereinigte Staates, dass es Dinge zählt. Es kann keine Macht zählen, ohne dass es Menschen für einen Zensus zählt. Und es ist in der Verfassung geschrieben.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und das Vereinigte Staates ist der größte Zähler von Dingen in der Welt. Und was es zählt, ist unglaublich. Und es bietet im Grunde Porträte unserer Gesellschaft und der Gesellschaft anderer Menschen mit sehr vorsichtigem Statistik-Kollektion und Analyse.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And he just takes one of these things, the CPI, and shows just how hard it is to do this well, just what a monumental achievement it is, and just actually, incidentally, how at risk it would be in nefarious hands. We trust it. We just assume that whoever is doing it is doing their best.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Well, if we don't actually know what inflation is, I mean, for a start, the Federal Reserve won't know how to adjust policy. I mean, it will sow confusion into the minds of people. People will have to kind of guess what was happening with prices. You know, that in and of itself, it'd be interesting to see what happened if you just actually totally politicized it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
There are no hints that they're thinking this way. They fired a bunch of experts who helped the Department of Labor Statistics investigate.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
So that's right out of the Trump playbook, that if you want to know what he's going to do, see what he's accusing other people of doing. Usually falsely. He's a master of bearing false witness. He operates within the limits of his imagination. His imagination is spurred by the awful things he can imagine other people doing. It's usually fantasy. He's had the idea then, that oh, you can do this.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And oh, in my mind, they've already done it, so I can go do it. That's sort of the psychology of it. Und das ist die Psychologie, die dazu führen würde, wie du es sagst, wie sie anfangen, etwas zu machen, was sie machen wollen. Wenn du das Bild der Gesellschaft verlierst, kannst du es nicht umsetzen. Ich meine, das ist das eine.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Aber in Bezug auf die Inflation, sagen wir mal, wir wussten plötzlich, dass sie es nur umsetzen. Und sie hatten die Kontrolle über den Geldverbrauch, sodass die Federal Reserve nicht mehr unabhängig ist. I think what happens is it becomes self-fulfilling. We're panicking and grabbing at ways to sort of preserve the value of our dollars.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
You know, you think bank prices are bad now or housing prices or whatever, that there becomes the anticipation of inflation increasing. Spurs it. So John Lanchester wrote about that. Dave Eggers wrote about people at NASA who were looking for little green men in distant space and doing really interesting research.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
There wasn't one of the things where you read it and you thought, oh, we don't need this.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
um zu illustrieren, wie einfach es ist, die Geschichten aus dem Baum zu bekommen, wenn man es nur ein wenig schlägt. Diese Geschichte I was working on a book about the pandemic. It's called The Premonition. A character in that book is a genius mad scientist at UCASF named Joe DeRisi. And he figures in My Premonition in one way.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
But while I was with him, he said he happened to have thought he found a cure or at least a treatment for a brain-eating amoeba called Balamuthia. Wir haben noch nie über Balamuthia gehört, seit der Mitte der 90er-Jahre. Es wurde in der Mitte der 90er-Jahre entdeckt. Es ist verantwortlich für viel mehr Todesfälle als wir wissen, weil es nicht identifiziert wurde, aber es wirkt wie Enzephalitis.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Dein Gehirn explodiert. Keiner wusste ganz sicher, wie die Leute es bekommen haben, aber kleine Kinder haben es bekommen. Und es scheint, als ob sie Dirt ingestellt hätten. Ein bisschen unklar, wie es kommt, aber egal. Also, ein Patient hat mit diesem ins UCSF-Hospital gestorben. Er ist gestorben.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Er nahm das Balamuthia und bombierte es in seinem Labor mit allen bekannten akzeptablen Chemikalien, die man in Menschen reinnehmen kann, allen bekannten geprüften Drogen. Nicht nur in den Vereinigten Staaten, sondern auch in Europa. Und er fand, dass es einen Drogen gab, der für UTIs in Europa genannt wurde, namens Nitroxilin, der tatsächlich dieses Ding getötet hat.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
The next time someone walks into the hospital with it, you know, the person is going to die if you don't do anything. He bombards it with Nitroxalin, the doctors do, and the person survives. Really good sign. So I watched that. I just watched that happen. I said, wow, you solved a problem. He goes, no, I haven't solved a problem because we know about it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And if someone happens to call me, they will get that treatment. But like the doctors of America don't know about it. And I said, okay. Well, doesn't like someone in the government or someone somewhere assimilate anything that's been done about these rare diseases so that there's like a database? And he said, nope.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And then he paused and he said, you know, this is one woman, one woman in the FDA who badly wants to do this and who keeps pestering me.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1000: David French: Trump Admits He's Violating the Constitution
politics, culture, you name it. We're talking about it, and we're keeping it 100% real right here on the Michael Steele Podcast. I'm Michael Steele. I'm the host of the Michael Steele Podcast. Each week, I'm having conversations with political analysts, writers, and activists who aren't afraid to shake things up a little bit like yours truly.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1000: David French: Trump Admits He's Violating the Constitution
It doesn't matter if you're on the left, the right, or somewhere in that strong middle. This is the space you want to be in because we cut through the noise and hit the heart of the issue. Oh, and we're definitely going to have some fun while we do it. So grab that drink, hit play, settle back, and let's get into it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1000: David French: Trump Admits He's Violating the Constitution
Catch the Michael Steele Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast groove on.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
You know what I mean?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Yeah, I supported active research projects on identifying sources of critical minerals in the U.S. domestically. It bothers me that he's more interested in engaging in neocolonialism to get minerals from other countries, rather than supporting the scientists and the researchers who are aiding the minerals industry here in America. You're talking about Greenland. And Ukraine.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
For many people, yes. The USGS is the most prestigious earth science research institution in the world. And we've been at the office this whole time. We do work in laboratories at the office, but lots of people are in the field every day. We monitor the nation's waterways. We monitor earthquakes, volcanoes, and other hazards. We study ecosystems. So our office is our nation's lands.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Right.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Yeah. Michael, what did you think? It's always time for television ads. If I if I'm the opposite party, there's so much of Trump's speech that I would be canning for commercials that run tomorrow. I'd have my guys and gals working right now on the Social Security speech, a piece on the Ukraine piece. They're just nuggets you pull out because this is. The trip is the narrative.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
And I want you to trip over my narrative because we've been tripping over yours. Right. Because you've been laying out as president. You've been saying all this stuff. Tonight, we heard the president. I just wrote this down. This was a tale of American empire. Because at the end of the day, he wants to run it all. He wants to rule it all. He wants to control it all.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
So it's a tale of American empire. What Slotkin did was beautiful because it was a tale of a working American family, community. and not getting lost in empire, but actually doing what we've always done from the very beginning, and that's creating with our hands and our minds and engaging the country.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
So those two narratives, you stand them up, I can tell you sitting in this chair tonight who would win that argument.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
I'm sorry, as much as we want to deliver it to you right here.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Yeah, well, I'm shrinking in my chair on that one. But, you know, again, even the use of drill baby drill misses the mark. We are past that because we are leading already for what we're drilling. We are leading in production in the world. So, you know, we did it. All right. But the fact that you're still talking about it tells me at least you don't know what we've done.