Michael Steele
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
The fact that the problem now with the MAGA folks inside the government who just wants to go in like, you know, Elon Musk with the buzzsaw, just going to start cutting and tearing and then go, oops, didn't mean to hit that. Oh, wow. I didn't know that was there. That's important. They're now hearing from the very people they thought would be standing out there cheering them.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And they're not because they're wrong. And what we're seeing now, particularly in this space with Abrego Garcia, is I don't care, Tim. I don't give a damn if Abrego Garcia is the head of MS-13. They'd have some evidence if he was the head. Right. And I don't give a damn if he's Mother Teresa.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
But what I do give a damn about is that if our criminal justice system wants to pull him in, that A, to your point, they have the evidence. And B, he's allowed the due process to confront that evidence and to attest to his innocence. or whatever. But that process is important because if you strip that away for Abrego Garcia, Tim Miller, Michael Steele, Jane Doe, John Doe are next.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And we know that's the end game. Why? Go back to the last point I made, because they fundamentally don't like the people that the government is there to serve. And they want to create a space in which the only folks around them and in their orbit are blind loyalists who at any moment they can kick to the curb. But until that moment occurs, we'll do whatever they want them to do.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And that's not how the country was built.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
I have not seen that. After years of very fine people, among other hoaxes, I'm suspicious of any Democrat quoting President Trump in full context. And I make no apologies, none, on not being able to know or recall that specific clip because it doesn't reinforce my fever dream, handmaid's tale vision of America.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
where Lilly, who reads the bulwark on the Upper West Side, is about to be deported right after Kilmar Brego Garcia.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Right, Chairman? That's exactly the risk. And we're all at risk. Look, the thing that's in the way. The thing that is in the way of everything Donald Trump wants to do, or more to the point, the people around him want to do, the Steve Millers, et cetera, is the Constitution. It's not the regulations on fluoride. It's not whether or not you fund USAID.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Looking forward to it. It's a lot of fun, and I'm glad to be in this conversation with you, as always. You're one of my fave people out there, and so I'm just glad to be able to come on and shoot the breeze with you and celebrate this new chapter that's coming up on May 5th. I'm excited about it, man. It's going to be a lot of fun.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It's not whether or not this department or that department is large or small, has one person or a thousand people. It is the Constitution. Because if you did not have that, the rest of this doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If we did not have that, Michael Steele and Tim Miller would not be on this mic right now.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Because there would have been jackbooted thugs coming to his location and mine to shut it down. That's what this is about. And it's not hyperbole. And Fox can level up stupid to sit behind a desk in front of a camera and sit there and go, oh, well, you know, I'm not going to make any excuse or apologize for not knowing something. Shut the hell up. Why are you there?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
You're pushing out the same level of stupid that has infected the political process. But you know what? That's OK. Why? Because the Constitution allows you to do it. And if it wasn't there, guess what? There would be someone to come take you off the air. So that's what this boils down to.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And I just wish people, and to a certain extent, from going back to my rant about two months ago, where I kind of lost my shit and just kind of said, Simone asked me, she said, well, what do you want people to do? I just said, I want them to give a damn.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
I want them to show they care about what's happening to the country, that these people don't like them, don't want them, and is doing everything they can to make their lives miserable deliberately. And it's nice to see now people taking to the streets more, expressing more directly their concerns, showing up at town halls, even creating town halls they know their members not going to come to.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
So the next step, folks... is to unelect those who are not in service to the American people, who are not in service to the concerns that you have. We are no longer in the land of $7 cartons of egg. We're beyond that. In fact, it was never really about that. If you're honest people, come on, just be honest. You know what? It really was about the $7 eggs. You know why?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Because you took a vacation that summer and you could have saved up the money for the eggs in the fall, right? We know what 2024 was like for most people. It was okay. But there were other things that were going on that really pissed you off. And that's that's respectable. And that should have been addressed by the Democrats. And it wasn't.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
OK, so now you have the power to address those things more directly with your elected officials. And the fact that if you hold a town hall and they don't show up, if they come and stand in front of you with arrogance and disdain for the fact that you are concerned about Abrego Garcia because, you know, he represents you.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
and your rights, if you're concerned about that, and that congressman isn't, that congressman no longer should have a job. That's what the power of our Constitution allows. That's why we, the people, Tim, are the most important words in our founding documents, because these men, as flawed and at times failing as they were, wrote something that
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
unlike anything written politically, except the Magna Carta, which first established the rights of the common man, right? Allows you, allows you to be the government, not the institutions, and certainly not Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a modern day King George. And we know how that story ended. And as we come up on our 250th, we need to remember that.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
All I asked for was someone who could put some hair on my head. I need more hair for primetime. And the response was just grow out what's left. You can do a comb over. Okay. I was like, but afros don't comb over that well. So it's just, you know, I don't know how that works. No, we've got, look, we've got a great team.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
There are a lot of steps in the process. And you put your finger on an essential feature of that. And that is understanding what the process is. Because you know that in the moment, your voice is the most important asset we have. And that's why the protest matters. That's why when you're looking at the number of people coming out and engaging, it does rattle this White House.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It certainly rattles the members of Congress. And they're now caught between loyalty to their base that elected them in their primary. and thereby loyalty to Trump, or loyalty to their service and the people in the community writ large. I love the way you put it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
If you just had Tim on his mic every week sort of saying, hey, y'all, they taking people away, they putting them on planes, and a newspaper writing one story, and everybody else is kind of going, there goes those two going at it again, right? Right. When we wake up with the knock at the door, we're going to be wondering, well, how the hell did we get here?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Well, Tim was on a mic telling you about for the last year this was coming. But that's not where we are. What's happened is there are a lot of Tim Millers out there. There are a lot of Michael Steeles out there. There are a lot of Miles Taylors and Krebs out there, people who are finding ways to resist either after being fired from their job or
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
by Elon Musk now coming back and suing them, holding them accountable for their action.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Talk about that. A lot of federal employees now are like, okay, y'all want to play? Let's play.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
You know, our executive producer, Kyle Griffin, and the production team around him, the writers, all of that. A big portion of that transitions with us to the primetime hour. Yeah, the support is a little bit different. It's a different game. You've got more hands that are part of making the product, which is good. And because, you know, look...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
I said this in 2020, repeated it in 24, but in 26, it is going to be enormously more important than those two periods. They have to overwhelm the ballot box with their vote. I said this on the weekend, a number of weeks now in a row, and I will keep saying this to understand. I think you appreciate this. I know you appreciate this, what the end game is here. The end game is not 2028.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
The end game is 2026. Because in 2026, Republicans know, and certainly MAGA Republicans around Trump know, that they could very well lose the House. They don't want to lose the House. You lose the House, and then all of a sudden, everything else for the next two years becomes that much harder to do.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Now you'll have a Democratic-controlled Congress that will be hauling people's ass to their committees. demanding information, doing investigations, et cetera, et cetera. And they don't want that. They don't need that noise from within side Washington. They don't need that resistance from Capitol Hill. So it's imperative that they keep the House. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
So when the president issues an executive order reconfiguring our elections, understand, folks, this is not about 2028. This is about 2026. Part two of that to get to part one is, OK, how do we safeguard? Well... Let's see. A little thing called the Insurrection Act. If you've noticed, there have been stories now popping up here and there, very much as you just described.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
You know, Tim is on his mic. The New York Times does one thing and everybody else moves on. Well, there are stories now that people need to pay attention to about folks inside the White House because they can't help themselves. They talk too much. Talking about a strategy around the Insurrection Act. That's why I keep warning people, when you protest, behave yourselves.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Don't get caught up in stupid. Right. Don't get drawn into confrontation. Number one. And for organizers to police your people. In other words, have a better understanding of who's out on the streets with you because they will they will send people infiltrate. They always project, Tim, you know that. Oh, yeah. Look, they paid these Democrats to come to the town hall. No, they didn't.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Because if that if they paid them, then what's the problem? Then why don't you? pretend you're a Democrat, get paid and expose it. Right? I haven't seen any of that yet. I haven't seen any of that because it doesn't exist. But when you have a large gathering of protesters, I can put people in there and mix it up and cause a fight. And then guess what? Then Trump said, oh, see, look at all that.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Look at the violence. Look at all that violence. And he invokes the Insurrection Act to, quote, put down the violence to protect the virginity of this great nation. And so we need to be mindful of what the end game is here. And the end game is always the ballot box. Why? Because it is the essential power of we the people. Be mindful of it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Certainly for SpinCo, MSNBC, everyone's familiar with sort of the standalone entity now that will be the new version of MSNBC. They're building a wonderful brand, exciting new programming. It started with our effort on the weekend. from 8 to 10 in the morning, Saturday and Sundays, and has now kind of grown out to this opportunity in prime time.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It's a joke. It's just proving exactly why there should have been more concerns and alarms about him when his name was proposed. You know, whether it's, you know, oh, everybody focused on Matt Gaetz. And I knew this was going to happen. Everybody focused on Matt Gaetz. And so everyone seems less offensive than Matt Gaetz. Well, at least it's not Matt Gaetz. Yeah, but it's actually worse.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It was obvious at the time, actually, also. It's just obvious at the time, whether it's Secretary of Defense, whether it's the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, whether it's the National Security Advisor, who, it doesn't matter. All of these people are cut out of the same cesspool of stupid. And so I'm not surprised, and nor is anybody else surprised. No one in Washington is surprised by this. No one.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
They might have been surprised it took three months.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
He is a complete incompetent. He is a weekend talk show host. And as a weekend talk show host, I can at least say I ran a government. I ran a national party as a co-host. I ran a national party. I did some stuff before I got to that job, right? You were in a monastery.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
That's too much work. That's way too much work. There's too many things to keep track of in that situation. Look, I didn't know. That's way too much work. But it wasn't too much work for him. And what's sad, Tim, it was too much work for the United States Senate Republicans to tell the president, send us somebody else. We can do better than this. Because the defense of our nation is paramount.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And so now as we see, he is the one. Here's the thing. He wants to blame the deep state. He wants to blame people who are out here lying on him. He wants to blame people who are, you know, speaking in secret about him. What are they doing? They're speaking about stuff you did. They're not lying. Was it your phone? Was it your wife in the chat? Was it your brother in the chat? Was it your lawyer?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
But it's also helped transform how other shows are looking. So it's been really, really fun, man, to sort of be sort of the experimental project that works out really well and that is sort of – an example of some exciting things to come. And so I'm looking forward to May 5th and seven o'clock and, you know, bringing the heat as I am want to do.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
What the hell is your personal lawyer? What's that about? Right? Oh, look, we're about to bomb Yemen. What do you think? Honey. Phil Hegseth. You got two cents on that. Phil, you got two cents. I don't even know what he does at Department of Homeland Security. I don't think he knows what he does there. But the reality of it is, no, it was you, baby. And it's just this whole thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
My mom used to tell me when I was a kid, whenever I did something, she'd ask me, well, did you do it? And I go, uh... Kind of. Kind of? Yeah. Yeah, kind of. And she would always tell me there is no such thing. You either did or you didn't. You can't half-step your responsibility in something.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And you certainly can't do it at this level, where as a grown-ass man, your first recourse is not to stand up and go, you know what, that was the damnest, dumbest thing I should have known better as Secretary of Defense, to put that conversation on an unsecured phone, given the proximity I have to those who want to steal that information, right? I should have known better.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Mr. President, I apologize. Right. You don't apologize to us. Apologize to the president. He's the one who hired your dumb ass. So that's fine. Right. But the reality of it is you take responsibility. But no one in this administration wants to take responsibility for anything. They always seek to blame someone else. It's someone else's fault. That they're so incompetent.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It's someone else's fault that they're so blind and stupid. It's someone else's fault that they don't know what they're doing, that they're in a job over their head, that you pick a man to head up the health department of the country and he's sitting there telling people autism is bad. not what science has told us it's been for the last 30 years. And everybody is like, okay.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It all comes from the top. I know you know this.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It is one of the more depressing and just frustrating aspects of this. A lot of it stems from the fact that they don't want to be a target. What Trump has done to law firms, what he's done to other groups and individuals, how he's clearly identified his little billionaire's boys club of favorites. They want to be a part of that. They don't want to be on the outside of Donald Trump's favor.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
I don't get it. I've yet to understand what the magnetism is. And I don't even understand what the threat is. Because The strength is in their numbers. These are the men and women who are part of the infrastructure of our economy. They are the ones who are at the center of wealth creation, job creation, the movement of the markets. How do we know that?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Because we've seen when they decide to act in unison, for example, the bond market responds, right? Which is a combination of both domestic and international engagement in that space. Trump will respond. correct his course. So I don't know what they want out of this other than to become wealthier than they are. They want the tax cuts be kept in place. I don't know.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Yeah, I was going to say, right? Look, folks, 7 a.m., Tim's just coming in. He's not going to be watching TV.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Speak up. But here's the rub on this. It is not the billionaire boys or the millionaire mamas that are going to drive this part of the conversation. It is the little shop owner who's had her corner in her community for 10, 15 years, who can no longer afford to buy the inventory of for her company because it's gone up 150%. It's gone up 25%.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
There's a point where they cannot pass that cost on to the consumer. and they close. They go out of business. That's part one. Part two, to the extent that they can and do pass that cost on to the consumer. And I'm just telling everybody, you don't have to listen to me and Tim. You don't have to believe a damn word we're saying.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Just pick up an item in your house and look on the bottom and see, oh, made in China. made in China. Picking up a stapler for our audio listeners. I'm sorry, yes. We're doing both, that's okay. I'll narrate. A tape container... A stapler and now the remote control for my television. Oh, made in China.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
That's our economy. We are a consumer-based economy. Yes, we want manufacturing in this country, but they're not going to manufacture this remote control here in this country because there's not a U.S. company that's going to stand up the cost to do that. Businesses have looked and moved globally. And that integration is important. Why? Because we are at the leading edge of it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Everybody wants to be like us. They want to sell us products. They want us to sell them stuff to the extent that we do. But what Trump has done is created this lie that somehow all of manufacturing, everything that we have is manufactured here. That's just not going to happen, folks. It just isn't. And if it does, this stapler that I spent $8.99 for is going to cost me $28 or $30 or $40.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Because that's the cost of having it done here. We forget the labor costs. We forget the production costs, the cost of materials, all these things. So if it's a manufacturer, if I can go to Tim, who is in... in France, who is the one who creates the screws to go into my equipment, and he's done it cheaper than I can get down the street somewhere else, guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna go to Tim.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
I'm gonna go to where the cost is cheaper to me because it stays cheaper for you. So when you break that, which is what Trump is trying to do, the downward impact is not on the millionaire mamas and the billionaire boys. It's on the mom and pop operation in your neighborhood who has to close now, will not be hiring your kid this summer, will raise its prices.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
So now everything you're buying in that community is going to cost you more. And who's going to be held accountable for that? You're going to blame Joe Biden for that? Because that's what Donald Trump wants you to do. He wants you to blame Joe Biden. Joe Biden gave us the worst economy in the history of the world. No, he didn't. No, he didn't.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
You're giving us the worst economy in the history of the world. How do we know that? Because the world markets are telling us that. That's why the bond market did what it's done. That's why the Dow is doing what it's doing. And for those of you who are in the market, go look at that 401k. How much did you lose yesterday? Or don't.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
I had so many of my friends say to me, really? His last official visit. Are you serious? You know, I've been very reflective of this pope for a lot of reasons, because everyone really wanted to reduce his papacy to, you know, right versus left, conservative versus liberal. And yes, you could argue, oh, he was progressive on immigration.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
I would, too. I would be nice to have them actually stand on the side of the American consumer. to stand on the side of the American small business owner. We can all create a space in which markets work that lead to fair trade. And look, bottom line, we know China is a piece of shit when it comes to this space. No one's defending China, no one's excusing China, and they need to pay a price.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
That's not what Trump is doing. He's going after our friend. Here's the thing. He puts a tariff on an island of penguins, Okay. Yeah, y'all heard me. Y'all heard what I said. I ain't making this up just for you folks out there. Not making it up. It's true. He put a tariff on an island of penguins, but he can't put a tariff on Russia. And so don't give me this, oh, well, they have sanctions.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
No, we still do about $3 billion plus of trade with Russia, right? But they were not on that list. The reality of it is, The only plan here is to disrupt the market and to try to grab control of the Fed. Are you concerned about his control of the Fed, Tim? Because I know I am.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
If that happens, I'll just put it straight up. If that happens, the collapse that we've seen so far in the market, it will be like a picnic. It will be... You can't even begin to imagine the bottom falling out the way it would if Donald Trump...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
fires the Fed chair, Jerome Powell, if he somehow keeps him in place, but then wrestles control of the Fed in some other way, you really need to appreciate what that means and why an independent Fed, which has been the bane of both Republicans and Democratic presidents in the past, right? This is nothing new, but they are that through line in our economy, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
because they represent an essential ingredient in our economy, which is the bond market, which is the value of the dollar, which is collapsing, et cetera. So be mindful of what could happen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Well, I don't know if my reading of the Bible and the words of Christ around immigration the Beatitudes or what the Lord gave Moses in the 10 commandments would be considered progressive. I think it's just kind of common sense. Loving your neighbor as yourself, that's progressive. And if that's progressive, what does it say about being a conservative?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
This is... This is the future if we don't stop it. This is the tip of the iceberg. We've already begun to see the impact by the Doge idiots going in to Department of Health, you know, the national research centers, certainly now the assault on universities. The brain drain that's going to happen, Tim, is going to be staggering, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
where once we were the place that the elite thinkers, researchers wanted to come to because we had the facilities unfettered, right? Access, the freedom to do and pursue that research. There's no commissar looking over your shoulder. Exactly. And we're now stripping that bear and stripping it away. So where do they go? They won't come here.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
When you have someone like this young woman, yeah, made a mistake, had frog embryos, you just describe what would usually happen. They would take the frog embryos, which are being researched on behalf of the government anyway, okay? So they just give them back to the government. It wasn't fentanyl, you know?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
She's doing fucking science research, you know? It's frog eggs. Frog eggs. And she's in a detention center probably because they're trying to figure out if the Russians want her back. And they want to placate the Russians and give her. So that's what that's all about.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And that's our future in terms of the impact at our universities, the impact at our research centers like MIT and the Naval Research Lab, where I worked for many years actually with frogs. Really? Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Yeah, it was olfactory research. So it was developing equipment that could protect soldiers in the field from smells that they couldn't smell, from dangerous poisons. But yeah, dude, I mean, that's what we do. That's what our government supports us. That's why, you know, we have STEM programs. What are we doing now? What we're doing now?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
What do you think is going to happen at our university homegrown towns? What do we do with STEM programs when we're cutting off that kind of research, when we're not facilitating or paying for or providing grants and support for that research? If you've developed the tools, whether it's equipment or medicine or whatever, to create Identify precancerous cells.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And you're going to lock up the person who's doing that research because they had frog eggs at the airport for two months. That's why I use the word stupid so much, because this is so... Stupid fascism.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
They say when you see things, you know, with a hammer, everything's a nail and you just want to crush it. And that's what they want to do. So, look, our universities are trying, some at least, finding a way to stand their ground. We need more universities aligned with Harvard, whether you are in the crosshairs now or not, because you will be.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
That I don't love my neighbor, that I don't give a shit about the immigrant, that I don't care about what happens to my fellow man and woman. You just can't put him in that box. Because I think what the Pope was trying to do was say, look, at the core of everything that we do should be love. It should inform how we approach the world.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
If you have any level of research at your institution, if you have any students of foreign origin, they're all subject to this. Now, even U.S. students who go abroad... and then try to come back because of their last name or the university they're at. I know of stories of people being held up trying to come back into the country who are US citizens. That's a concern.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
So this is not just a one-way travel. This is both ways. You know, it's not just the foreign born student or individual who wants to come here or is here. But U.S. citizens who are born here, who are engaged in certain research, in certain types of government actions that they don't like. They're also subject to this. So I just think all of these for me are warning signs.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And how we heed them, Tim, is going to be very, very important because the America that Trump wants in our 251st year It's not the America I think that the founders tried to create and has sustained us for 250.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
A lot of times don't know about this. You know, I got to keep it so it don't crack, baby.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
He was having none of it. She was having none of it, but it exposed what a pathetic, useless servant to the people of her district she is. And again, this is why you unelect them, because you're not going to hold this woman up as an example to your daughter, are you? Really?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
You want you want your 14 year old daughter to emulate that behavior when she when she's in a situation where instead of showing maturity and respect for listening and even if there's a disagreement saying, you know, we disagree and I appreciate your position. But right. Oh, fuck you. That's your response. That's your that's your intelligent response as a member of the United States Congress.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
You know, well, the people of her district should also say those two words at the ballot box next November, because that's the only way you change it. I'm sorry. There's nothing to brag about with that. There's nothing cool about what Nancy did there. There's nothing, you know, oh, she owned that lib. That's all bullshit. And you know it is. It's trite. It's immature. It's performative.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And the challenges we have are resolved if we see the humanity of our fellow traveler. It's been really a reflective moment for me. I was an Augustinian seminarian. Spent three years in a monastery, roughly.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And it's beneath the office in which you've bestowed her. the privilege of serving in. So, like all privileges, it should be taken away. And it should be given to someone who at least have a modicum of respect for the people in the district in which you live, including yourself.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
So, she, if that's what you want to level up, South Carolina, then you're just showing the lack of respect you have for yourself. Whew. Because remember, our public officials are an extension of you because you do the one thing that everybody around the world envies. You get to go into a ballot box and freely elect them to represent you. So if that's what you are, that's what you get.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Yeah, so I entered the Augustinian order, Order of St. Augustine, after I graduated from Hopkins. And that August, I went up to Villanova and joined the men there for my first year. While I was at Villanova, I taught at one of our high schools, Malvern Prep, and then went up to Massachusetts for my novitiate and spent time up there preparing for Simple Vowels. And that was the journey.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And then I left right before Simple Vials because I felt God was calling me to move in a different direction and to take take what I learned in that time and apply it to this, what I've been doing since.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It is actually, Tim, informed how I served as lieutenant governor, informed how I served as RNC chairman in a very political position, that part of my Christian values should direct and help me navigate through some very sticky political stuff. And it did. I have a whole different view of how I look at people.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
I used to tell people after I cussed them out, I'd say, you know, this could have been a lot worse because I spent three years in a seminary. This went a lot better than it otherwise would have. They just look at me like, okay, whatever.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
You know, you could have... It's been really painful, yeah. It's like, on your knees, all right, start praying. But yeah, man, it's a very important time for us. The church is going to go through a transition. You know, the who's in, who's out horse race of the election of the next pope is going to ensue after the funeral, if not before.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
But I think the legacy of this pope is going to be a profound one. And given that he selected and put in place a significant majority of the cardinals who will be electing his successor, they're not going to necessarily look for a similar type or, you know, the next version of Francis. But I think some of the things that he, the qualities he led with, they're going to realize are important.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And hopefully the Holy Spirit will lead them to choose the person who will best reflect this time and is best needed for these times.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It's a little bit different, but that is so well put. Exactly. Look, you know, I always kind of marvel, and it's true, I guess, for a lot of folks who convert to a new faith, that they have a certain zeal about it, that those of us who were born into the faith, baptized in the faith at a young age, grew up with it. You know, that zeal is there.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It just manifests itself differently, and it's less rhetorical. It's less formal. full-on public display, but it is in the works. When you think about the charities you give to, the people you support, the programs that you advocate for, putting your children in Catholic school, if that option's available. I mean, all the little things that we do, it really kind of reminds me, Tim, of, you
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
the lessons at the beginning of Lent. What is the first thing the Lord tells us? Do not wear the ashes and sackcloth. Do not show the world how you pray. Sit there with your prayer book walking. You remain humble in your faith, you remain humble in your journey, but you do the works that we are asked to do, which start with loving your neighbor as yourself,
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and providing for the Samaritan that you meet in your journey. And what bothers me a lot with today's fascist Christians or Christofascism or Christian nationalism is that it forgets that the man they purportedly follow, Jesus Christ, was himself a refugee. was a self, a migrant who fled the oppression of a government that wanted to kill him.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
And went to a little place called Bethlehem where he was born. And if the government of Bethlehem looked at Mary and Joseph as they entered the gates and said, who the hell are you? What are you doing here? Get the hell out.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
It is a good place to start because I think you just insulted the amateurs out there. And the reason I think you did is because even an amateur has a working understanding of what the job is. and what the limitations and requirements of the job are, right? They over-perform because they don't want to make the mistake, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
So, you know, we've all had that experience as amateurs at something very early in our careers or, you know, bringing someone in who's new to the work we're doing. These folks generally don't like government. They don't like the people who serve in government. And what is the big lie, Tim, is they don't like the people who rely on the service of government.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
Because that last part is the sticky part. Because what they're now seeing in town halls and red districts, in protests across the nation, is that the American people, for all of their concerns and maybe even lack of trust with some aspects of government, still rely on it, still need it. They understand what Social Security is there for because they've paid into it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
They understand why Medicaid is important because their mother, their father, their grandparent or themselves otherwise wouldn't get the health care that they need. They understand what the Department of Education at the federal level is there for. They recognize that the states absolutely control the outcome of educational training and programs, et cetera.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1026: Michael Steele: Your Voice Matters
But they also appreciate the fact that their special ed kid gets a little extra help from the federal government to get to stay a certain pace, to learn and to graduate and to try to become a productive person in our society. So they understand these things.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean... But there's no turning back, you're saying? I'm just here trying to make government more efficient, eliminate waste and fraud, and so far we're making good progress.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
politics, culture, you name it. We're talking about it, and we're keeping it 100% real right here on the Michael Steele Podcast. I'm Michael Steele. I'm the host of the Michael Steele Podcast. Each week, I'm having conversations with political analysts, writers, and activists who aren't afraid to shake things up a little bit like yours truly.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
It doesn't matter if you're on the left, the right, or somewhere in that strong middle. This is the space you want to be in because we cut through the noise and hit the heart of the issue. Oh, and we're definitely going to have some fun while we do it. So grab that drink, hit play, settle back, and let's get into it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Catch the Michael Steele Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast groove on.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
You need to bring a certain physicality, meaning your physical presence to this discussion so that people can have a face or faces that they see that are fighting not for their own personal interests, situation. That's part of it. But these are public servants.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
These are men and women who've been serving in these positions throughout every administration, not just Donald Trump's first term, but George Bush's, Bill Clinton's. We have this sense that the government is laden with all of these left-wing ideologues who just want to be so woke that they do all this crazy stuff. No, that's not the case.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The FBI is one of the most conservative organizations in government. There are a few wokes in there.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Because the way you do that is by leveling up what evidence you have. When you go after USAID, then put the evidence out there. And don't just cherry pick something out of a budget line that's part of a bigger budget. We can all do that. That's no reason to shut down an agency because they spend $30,000 on something you don't like out of a $100 million budget, OK?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I'm very much of the mind, yes, and always argue about looking at how we make government more efficient and work better on behalf of people. For me, that's about response times to problems, wait times on phone calls, duplicative efforts across agencies or within departments. That's not what Project 2025 is about. They don't give a shit about any of that. They just want to eliminate agencies.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And here we are now. And then seeing people all of a sudden now, do I have a job? How can he do this? Where does he get the... Bitch, please. We told you. We told you this shit was coming. We told you what Project 2025 was. So for me right now, Tim, it's just I'm very frustrated with the way the story in the last 18 or so days has kind of unfolded and the reaction to it more than anything else.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Let's be clear about why, Tim. They are doing all of this. You know why? Because next month and succeeding months, they've got to deal with re-upping of the massive Trump tax cuts. There's no money in the budget to do it. Nope. So this is what this is about. They're cleaving these agencies to pay for this tax cut. Trust me on that. This is not about, oh, we want a more efficient government.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
We're going to shut down the Department of Education. We're getting rid of USAID. We're going to streamline the FBI. All of those dollars have got to go somewhere. How do you perform the investigations that the FBI is currently involved in if you're shutting down half of the field offices? Who's doing that work? So the work goes away. The money is freed up. Where's that money going to go now?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
They both agree on blowing it up, but they think on the other side of that, The piece that they want is going to be what they get. And that's not where this, that's where the fight begins. I want to go back to the Elon Musk thing and just say this. The other mistake, I think I agree with you about Elon Musk. There's so much there to say about this guy. There's this immigrant who's taking the U.S.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, but he's still an immigrant, right? This got all of this power that he's been given. I think the strategy has to be, that's great. But Elon Musk is the bright shining object that is a distraction in some extent. Everything Elon Musk is doing has to be tied back to Donald Trump. Because this is the great setup. I give you Vivek Ramaswamy, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
When they started the old HB1 visa thing and that whole thing started to blow up, Where's Vivek? Anybody seen the brown skin guy? What happened? What happened? I thought we were partners. I thought we were all in this together. They dumped his ass so fast and make your head swim. Right. Jettison. Oh, this is a problem. Our white base is upset, right? Let's blame it on, okay, Vivek.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so Vivek's like, oh, okay, I'm gonna go run for governor. Okay, baby, you go ahead and do that, boo. The reality of it is, You have these pieces that are in place doing what they're doing with the idea that Donald Trump, at some point, should it all go sideways, goes, how did that happen? Right. Because he's done it before. And so Elon Musk, everything he's doing. Yes, I hate it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And that's because Donald Trump told you to do it. and put it back on Trump. Just don't leave it on Elon alone because trust me, Republicans and Trump are going to scapegoat him like a dog. When it goes south.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And why the crap are we polling on an unelected guy? Who the hell cares? He's not an elected official. Why are we polling on Elon Musk? Right. And the reason is, is because that negative number, that minus 46 percent or whatever, would otherwise translate to Trump. Now, look, it's a bargain for exchange. Elon Musk is getting exactly what Elon Musk's one side.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
He don't give a rat's ass if he's upside down in his popularity. He's a billionaire. He's the richest man in the world. What does he care, right? He's got control over the contracting system of the federal government. The Doge isn't looking into his NASA contracts.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The Doge is not going to recommend that the government streamline the excesses in those contracts, because trust me, there's a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse in those contracts. But they're not going to carve that out. The man made $400 million. On inauguration day, right? This is all about how he's going to make more money. The bargain for exchange is, I'll do what you need me to do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I just want to be the world's first trillionaire. And all those other motherfuckers sitting behind Trump at that inauguration, they want a piece of that too. So just need to be clear-eyed about what's happening in front of us. So when the whole thing collapses, we know why.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
on to another trump thing gaza uh you know it's like sometimes like what do you what do you even fucking do with some of this shit but trump uh trump uh it was the other night folks let me just say when tim starts muttering under his breath it's not it's not a good it's not good trust me it's not good
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And it's typical Trump bullshit because it ain't happening. You know why it's not happening? Because the Saudis have already said it's not happening. And there's not a deal that's going to get cut in which Jordan is going to say, oh, yeah, give us more Palestinians. All right. It's just not happening.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But Trump throws it out there and he throws it out there in such a way that, you know, as you rightly noted, you look at the face of Bibi and Susie Wiles and go, did that shit just happen? Did he say, you know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of that moment when he did the presser. in which he said, yeah, well, you can take the bleach and you can inject it in your system.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And he looked over at, what's her name? Deborah Birx. Yeah, Dr. Birx. And she's like putting her head down, go, I know this mother, just not say put bleach in your arm, right? That was that moment. That was the exact same scenario. Here's the deal. Again, you get sucked into the rabbit hole talking about Gaza, right? in the way that Trump wants to do Gaza.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Folks, stop for a moment and say to yourself, how does that stabilize the Middle East? How does having Trump Casino on the Gaza Strip and making Gaza the Riviera of the Middle East, how does that stabilize the region? You think Hamas is going to just say, oh, a beach club. Shit, I can get a tan.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I got the burqa that, you know, lets the sun rise. The burqini? The burqini. I got my burqini.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I love Tim. And this is why Tim was a good comms guy when he was at the RNC. And this is why he's been a great comms guy since. is because that's exactly what you do. That's exactly what you do. That's why I was just saying in the little bit before about, you know, yeah, all right, in the Senate, play hardball.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Put these guys in the box where they have to account for the bullshit that's coming out of this man's mouth. Yes, I would absolutely sponsor the bill and put it on the floor on the committee and say, okay, that's what he wants to do. I think that's a great idea. I'm all about even naming it. Trump Hotel and Casino Gaza. Let's do it. We'll budget for it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And let's let's appropriate to get to get the feasibility studies and all that in place. Two hundred and fifty million dollars. Let's just do that. And watch how plastic collapses.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, it's real. It's real work. And then, you know, all the other stuff like the relocation of two million people, the countries that won't take them, the terrorist organizations that won't go away. All of that shit will just dissipate once we start construction on the Trump Hotel and Casino Gaza.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
All right. So I listened to that. And, you know, Candy Girl here is just she's just so she's so just so sweet and yummy to listen to. So delicious. So I responded back. But on day one. Trump told us, quote, I want on groceries, very simple word, groceries. We're going to bring those prices way down, end quote. Trump, I want my prices at the grocery pump to go down now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Right. What the fuck is a grocery... Anyway, at the grocery pump, I can't afford the eggs I need to put into my tank. Because that's what you do. Okay, so this is what you're telling me. So... Look, folks, Trump has already told us he doesn't know how he's bringing grocery prices down because he can't. It's too hard. He's now admitted that. But we knew that. You knew that back in November.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
You knew exactly what you were doing with your vote. And the layup about, oh, my God, the price of eggs, you knew it was bullshit then. And it still is. Because if you don't know anything about your own personal market, you know that you adjust. You did. You know how I know you adjusted? Because a lot of y'all asses went on a very nice long vacation during the summer.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
In the midst of all of the so-called high prices, you took a break. And you packed up those eggs, and you went with your family someplace nice. And that's OK. And I just think now all of this doublespeak bullshit coming out of this White House about, oh, well, we're cutting this and we did that. There's no plan here. There never has been.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Because there are things that are affecting the price of eggs that have nothing to do with Joe Biden or Donald Trump. There's a little thing called bird flu. Little thing where you got to put down 2 million chickens.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of that moment where Jesus looks at Peter and he goes, dude, before the cock goes two times, you're going to deny my ass. And he was like, oh, hell no. I will die for you. What are you talking about? Right. Next thing you know, hey, Peter, you were with him. Now, I don't even know who he is. Right. That's these Republicans.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
If you go back in time and you told them this is what you would do. Oh, no, there's no way in hell. But we know now their nature. We know now who they are. They have been exposed for what they are. And just as Christ knew the nature of Peter in that moment, we know their nature. And so I'm not surprised.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I said weeks ago that all of these, after the whole thing with our boy from Florida went down, once they got him off the docket, It was clear sailing. They weren't sacrificing anybody else. This is my frustration with Democrats. I still think Gates would have got through, too, by the way. You know what, Tim?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, look, I'm all about grace and all of that stuff, but I know the thing that's in front of me. I know what it is. It has exposed itself time and time again. It tells me over and over again what it is. There is no redemptive feature here. There is no, oh, gee, gosh, I'm sorry. I should be that kind of president as opposed to this kind of president that I am.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, I totally agree with that. I thought that the weakest of all of them was Tulsi Gabbard because she cut the closest to the things that Republicans seemingly still care the most about. And that is the whole national security piece. So her narrative in that space was bad for a Donald Trump has already told them, well, if you don't go with her, I'm going to primary you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And once you tell them that, they're like, oh, shit, no, I can't afford to be primary because this is the most important thing I've ever done in my life. And I cannot give this up because it's all about me. F the country. I don't give a shit about the country. She can tell Putin whatever she wants as long as I get reelected and don't have a primary. That's what this crew is about.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
That's what their leadership is. It is pathetically sad. the level of pussydom that they have created.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Different words are banned. And God knows if you say DEI, that's like saying the N word. So just be careful.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I'm good, baby boy. How you doing, man? Well...
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The presidential election or the chair's election? The chair's election. So two weeks ago. And I thought Chairman Wickler out of Wisconsin said, would be a better fit for this moment? Because this moment aligns a lot like it did for me in 2009 after the loss in 06 and 08, a really bad brand for the party. You have a very popular president sitting down on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
They have the House, the Senate. So then how do you now figure out the strategy to begin to claw back the narrative? My hope is that he brings... He's the chairman of Minnesota, the Minnesota party, and apparently... is a good tactician in that regard, in that space. He's going to need that, I think, to put in place some tacticals.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
If he levels up a 50-state strategy, if he starts with branding and messaging at the grassroots, in his first test case will be two states that are going to be important this November, Virginia and New Jersey, especially Virginia, which is going to have a very I think, interesting and hotly contested race for governor between Spanberger and Winsome, Lieutenant Governor Winsome.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So you're going to have an opportunity to see how your messaging plays in Northern Virginia, which went slightly red in the last election, and how you can then translate that more broadly across the country. This is not just about, oh, you know, raising a lot of money and that's important. Your problem isn't money. Your problem is message and the fact that people don't think you're credible.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so that's going to be an important first test, how you begin to claw back credibility. To be honest, you're not being helped by your members in the House and Senate. So I'm just letting you know.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I should actually not look to blow up the federal government. But as true conservatives has always argued, let's look at how we can make it function better and not overreach. Right. And that's not what this has ever been about. It has never been about that. And there are a lot of people who know that now, knew that then.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
They didn't have a reason to vote for Kamala. They really didn't. I mean, outside of, you know, certain narratives, there was nothing that gravitationally pulled the American people away from it. And it goes back to the joke, you know, we've been talking about the price of eggs and all that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But look, if voters find a reason to stay in a space and you know it's not a real space, it's not a legitimate space, that there are other things that they need to take into consideration and to move them,
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
If you don't create that conversation, if you don't give them that appreciation that, yes, it is the thing that you're holding on to, the price of eggs, whatever, but these are other things that you need to contextualize, they're going to stay where they are. And when you talk to voters afterwards, they pretty much told you, I didn't have a reason to move.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so throughout that campaign, the question is, how do you move the narrative with voters? That's always been the problem. for this administration going back to the very beginning. The last administration. The Biden administration, yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. Was going back to the very beginning.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
That's why I alluded to, you know, Joe Manchin and his, you know, tying people up in knots for 18 months over something like the filibuster. And the American people are going, who's Phil? Who's Buster? And what did they do? Why is everybody so mad at them, right? Not understanding what the fight was about. And the Democrats are fighting over process, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Donald Trump is out here just slinging a wing and saying, that's your problem. They're focused on process. I'm just going to go in and blow it all up. And so when people become frustrated with the process, the idea of blowing it all up is really appealing. Yeah. And no one ever corrected for that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so, yeah, when you're sitting there looking at the numbers, they were telling you one thing, but voters were saying something else on the ground, just as they did in 2016. And I just felt that all the efforts that folks like you and me in working with Democrats in the democracy space, they still didn't get what the fight was about.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
bring uh you know doing Patrick Mahomes anyway it's you know they're not all fire it's a it's not all they're not firing on all cylinders there I don't they're not and and people think that's endearing they just think uh well that's just Trump being Trump well you know yeah I guess the town idiot is just the town idiot and you just everybody just rolls by that's nice if we
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And for me, I just can't go down this merry lane that, oh, now let's just try to understand and be nice when that's not what this bitch is about. And as I said about Hakeem Jeffries, that's my boy. I'll roll with Hakeem. I appreciate his leadership.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I kissed Zac Efron. Same thing. I had to coach him a little tongue action.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But I'm sorry, when you're handing over the gavel, you don't look at the thing in front of you that tried to overturn the last election and was in the back room fomenting insurrection and say, we're going to now lay down our swords and pick up our bipartisan plowshares. He's going to take that plowshare and shove it up your ass because that's what they're about.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And I wish the hell people would get that shit in their head and understand this thing is not democracy. This thing is not democratic, small d. This thing is not the expression of what the founders wanted. In fact, this thing is what our founders warned us against. And I just, in this moment, am fed up with everybody's bullshit.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
excuse making, cry babying, wringing of their hands and not understanding, use the damn system against them. I don't know why the hell Chuck Schumer is the minority leader in the Senate. He shouldn't be because he's gotten punked every which way from Sunday by the Republicans. You think you're going to get something different?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
In this iteration, John Thune is not Mitch McConnell in many respects, but John Thune is going to do what? What John Thune wants to do? Or what Donald Trump wants him to do? Tim, I don't...
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
understand why folks continue to pretend that if, if I say it nicer and if I go visit him and if I, if I plead or cajole or pretend with him, that somehow Donald Trump is going to turn around and go, you know, I appreciate that. So let me, let me play nice with you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
It sucks real hard right now. I'm at a point where I'm frustrated and angry at the same time with the way storylines have played out with no response. And it is galling and mind numbingly stupid to me that we see the arrogance and disregard of this administration, the leveling up of the menagerie of misfits to be secretaries of fill in the blank and directors of national intelligence.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I don't know. You know, I live in the world, Tim. My political experience that I learned many years ago from the likes of Marion Barry and Joey O'Dell and others here growing up in Washington, D.C., is... Words are meaningless. It's dude, show me what you got. Show me what you got. You know, because I can tell you anything.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But if I'm going to smack you upside the head after the conversation, that tells me everything. Right. So I hear the, you know, maybe we can do this or do that. Just do it. Don't don't telegraph it. Don't talk about it. Just do it. Look, Tim, this is where I come from. For 18 months, Joe Manchin tied up the Biden administration over the filibuster and a whole host of other bullshit.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Wouldn't let this bill go through. Held up that. Tommy Tuberville, perhaps the dumbest member of the United States Senate, held up over 200 DOD appointments. Generals, people we needed out in the field for how long? By himself. By himself. And we got Democrats sitting here trying to figure out, oh, gee, I don't know what we can do to stop Kash Patel or Tulsi Gabbard's appointment. Yes, you do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So don't talk to me about how bad it is. We know how bad it is. Damn it. Do something. Even if you slow the roll at the end, the outcome is, yes, they get through. At least you slow the roll of the process and you let them put down the marker. that this appointment is an abomination. It is bad for the country. We know what Kash Patel is going to do at the FBI. Why do we know that?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Because he told us, not once, but over a 10-year period. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Tim, that is exactly what the play is. It has always been the play. They couldn't get it in gear. in the last term, they had four years to sit down and figure out what the mechanisms were. I participated in a number of efforts to sort of war game their strategies during that time and what it potentially would look like.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So I'm not surprised at this because along with a number of other folks, we looked at, okay, if Trump comes back, what does he do? And this is exactly what we figured he would do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The problem is that those other institutional responses from the United States Congress to individual agencies has not played out the way we thought they would, that there would be a more aggressive response to this fact. This fundamentally is the play. We're just going to do it. And I've said this over the years about Donald Trump is something I learned about him for the first time.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I worked with him back in 2013. He will always, always do what he wants to do until you stop him. It's not complicated. Yeah, not complicated. It's not. And the reason he does it, Tim, because he doesn't believe you can stop him. And so that's the arrogance that he brings to this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But that arrogance has got to be met with an equal arrogance, which is why I love the president of Mexico, because she was like, all right, bitch, bring it on. You want you want to put tariffs on me? Cool. Because Donald Trump didn't think Canada and Mexico would respond the way they did. Because what did he say when he put out that that executive order talking about the tariffs? I dare you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And there doesn't seem to be a counter narrative, let alone counter efforts to expose this bullshit for what it is. And it's frustrating because I feel like folks like you, myself and others are out here clang the bell, the warning bell saying, guys, don't do this. Trust me. It's not the price of eggs. Okay. I hear you, but it's not the price of eggs. That's the least of your problems.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And they were like, OK. And to be honest, I think Canada kind of followed the lead of Mexico because she wasn't playing. She's been tough. She wasn't playing. So that's at the core of this is exactly that. We're going to do it until you stop us. And by the time you get to stopping us, we will have already messed it up so badly. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
What are you afraid of if you're already losing your job?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The reality of it is lawsuits are not visuals. I can't see your lawsuit. I'm not in court. I don't want to be in court. But when your ass is standing outside of the FBI building or you've got federal workers who are protesting in local offices or trying to get into a building that they work in, physically involving themselves in trying to get the nation's attention on what's happening to them.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
That's an important visual. The next visual is going to come at a very, very profoundly personal level. When your ass tries to access government services, that you need Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Texas, et cetera.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So what are you going to do then? Because that's when it hits you, because you think, oh, shutting down the government. Yes, just do it. Well, OK, who's going to process your Social Security payment? Who's going to process the case that you had trying to get services and help for your parents or for your family member? But that office is now shut down. What are you going to do?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Who are you going to call? You're going to call that member of Congress who's sitting there going, yes, more, please. Who are you going to call? So that becomes the next level of reality here. I agree with you a thousand percent.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich weiß nicht, wie es dort läuft, aber er sagte, dass sie nicht viel Unterstützung von ihrer Institution hat, aber sie versucht, Ärzte aus dem ganzen Weltraum zu holen, die Tätigkeiten, die für rarte Krankheiten gearbeitet haben, in ihre, es heißt CureID, und Gott weiß, wo es hingeht. Also habe ich sie dafür angerufen, um zu sehen, ob sie eine Geschichte war.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und diese Geschichte am Ende des Buches ist sie. And it's not the story of government success. It's the story of what should happen. This thing she's created should work. Now, it does so happen that she personally intercedes to save the life of a little girl in Arkansas who's got it. And how that happens is amazing and serendipitous and requires lots of accident.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
But at the same time, at exactly the same time, another very little girl in Northern California contracted it and the doctors never heard about it and she died. But what I loved about Heather Stone was like, All by herself, for all kinds of deep personal motives.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
She was trying to spin up, which should be a massive operation, and was kind of meeting resistance because of our hostility to government. She's still there. You asked me, let me answer the question you asked at the top. What's happened to these characters? Like, you read all of them and you think, I want that person in government. I mean, it's just a no-brainer. And two of them have resigned.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Meine beiden fühlen sich beide auf Tenderhooks und als ob ihre Arbeit jeden Tag weggehen könnte. Und die anderen, ich denke, ich habe mit allen von ihnen gesprochen, sie wollen nicht mehr viel Interaktion mit den Schriftführern haben, die über sie geschrieben haben.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Sie wollen die Aufmerksamkeit nicht mehr. Es ist so, als ob sie die Aufmerksamkeit in erster Linie nicht mehr wollten. But it's like, really, don't write about me now.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
I mean, it's disastrous, but it's interesting watching how they're going about what they're doing. Because quite obviously, they come in not knowing anything or very much.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
But that's believable. Whether it's true or not, it's sort of believable. But they come in... Und das war der Punkt der Serie. Das ist der Punkt des Buches. Sie kommen sehr klar mit diesem wirklich dummen Stereotyp in ihrem Kopf, was diese Regierungsleute sind. Sie sind einfach wasserdrückend. Sie sind gegräbt, sie sind korruptiert, sie sind tief im Staat.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Sie sind da, um Donald Trump von allem zu verhindern, was er tun will. Und es ist so nicht, wer sie sind. They're so like mostly nonpartisan people doing, performing missions tasks that we've all agreed need to be done. And the point of story was like, explode this stereotype.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Like you will see over and over again, people who do not conform to this really stupid, lazy idea in one's head of what a federal worker is. And if you explore the stereotype, maybe they'll hesitate a little bit. bevor sie stupide Dinge machen, wie zum Beispiel alle Verwaltungsarbeiter ausführen, was sie gemacht haben. Und es hat natürlich nicht funktioniert.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Die einzige Art und Weise, wie Sie durch dieses Gebiet gehen, ist, wenn Sie vollständig ignoriert sind, wer die Leute sind und was sie tun. Und wir haben gesehen, sie haben Leute ausgeführt, die sie sofort erkannt haben, dass sie zurückgehören mussten. Aber die Verwaltungsarbeiter sind, es gibt ein paar Dinge, die in den Mikrofond gestanden sind. Wir können nicht so viel machen wie Elon.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Nein, lass uns das machen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
I mean, the list of disturbing things is so long, but the ones that maybe not have been as attended to as they should have, the probationary workers, the 50,000 workers, these are people who were in their first year of government service.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
That might be true.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Okay, so you know more about it than I do. But what I do know is that, so there's this period where you don't have, you can just be fired at will, simply, easily. You don't have to go through some process to fire this person. So because they were fireable, they got fired. But think about who those people must be. Almost certainly, they skew extremely young.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Like these are the young people coming into government, which is what we desperately need. I mean, here's a stat for you. In information technology, like the computer systems, Nur 4 % der Mitarbeiter im federalen Regierung sind unter dem Alter von 30 Jahren. 50 % sind über dem Alter von 50 Jahren.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das bedeutet, dass ein riesiges Anzahl von Leuten, die die IT-Systeme betreffen, nicht wissen, wie sie ihre Telefonen nutzen. Sie schießen also die jungen Leute ab. Und wer sonst schießen sie ab? Sie schießen jemanden ab, der für einen offiziellen Grund gebeten wurde. Wir brauchen diese Person jetzt. Wir brauchen diesen Ingenieur jetzt auf diesem Job, weil das etwas ist, was wir tun müssen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Die Person ist dann noch auf Probe und wird gefeuert. Es ist also fast genau so, wer du nicht feuern möchtest. Es ist nicht der totale Wald, der 20 Jahre lang reingeholt hat. Die zweite Sache ist, das ist, wie ich dachte, das erste Zeichen. Sie kamen und sagten, Waste, Fraude und Verbrechen und all das. Wenn du wirklich interessiert bist für Fraude,
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
The person you want to go right to and harness and empower is the inspector general of every one of these agencies. They're the cop on the beat. They operate independently from the agency. They speak directly, they can speak directly to Congress. They're there to scare the hell out of the people who are in the agency and prevent them from waste, fraud and abuse.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Sie kamen rein und führten alle Inspektor-General. Was das tut, ist das Gegenteil. Was sie tun, scheint das Gegenteil zu sein, was sie sagen. Was sie in diesem Fall gemacht haben, ist, Wastefraud und Verbrechen zu ermöglichen. Es ist also interessant, als intellektuelles Ausdruck zu versuchen, herauszufinden, was sie versuchen, zu erreichen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Abandon is strong. Abandon is very strong. I'm there all the time.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich denke, es ist ein Gumbo, um die New Orleans-Metapher zu verwenden. Okay. Der Grund, warum es so schwer ist, alles mit einer einfachen Theorie zu erklären, ist, dass es mehr als eine Sache gibt. Hier sind einige der Dinge im Gumbo. Der Reis ist das Unwissen. Ich meine, du kannst nicht, du hast nicht das Gumbo ohne die Beine. Du könntest nichts davon tun, wenn du eigentlich sehr viel wusste.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Du würdest dich schießen. Aber das Unwissen ist eine Präcondition. Und die Hostilität und der Malus sind eine Präcondition. Aber eins... versucht, den föderalen Arbeitsplatz zu politisieren und ihn zu weppen, sodass es ein Instrument ist, das nur da ist für die politische Nutzung von Donald Trump.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Also alles, was mit Donald Trumps politischen Interessen interferieren würde, muss gesquasht werden, was nicht der Fall ist, wie der föderale Arbeitsplatz von jedem anderen Präsidenten genutzt wird. Das ist also nur ein Ingrédient in dem Gumbo. Zweitens, alles, was Elon Musks Unternehmen durchführt. Regulierung. Und es ist nicht nur Elon Musk. Die Konstellation der Technik-Billionäre.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und wahrscheinlich Wall Street Leute.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Da bist du. Das ist wahrscheinlich richtig. Einer der Charaktere im Buch, Geraldine Brooks hat ein schönes Buch über ihn geschrieben, Jared Koopman, ist ein totaler Stuhl eines Cyberkriegskopfs innerhalb der IRS. who has raked in like billions of dollars for the United States government by busting cybercrime rings, broke up child sex trafficking operations. I mean, he's like, he's a superhero.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Also like a black belt. Someone Elon Musk would not want to be in a ring with. And they gutted his unit. And it's like, this is a hugely profitable enterprise and doing like nothing but simple good in the world.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
It's costing billions of dollars. So why would you do that? Well, the reason is in the name of the unit. Cybercrime. You don't... You've let cyber criminals out of jail. You've given pardons to cyber criminals. You are courting the cyber world, the crypto world, and they don't like this sort of police. So that's another threat of it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
It's like just the narrow business interests of some now very influential people. But it doesn't explain all of it. None of that really explains the Department of Education being whacked. Sie erzählen eine Geschichte darüber, dass es für Kulturschäden gezwungen wird. Es ist wach und es erzählt allen Staaten, wie man in den Schulen lehnt. Aber das ist nicht, was es tut. Es ist ein großer Bank.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das ist die Übertragung von reichen zu niedrigen Bereichen. Es subsidiert die Schule der niedrigen Kinder. Viele der niedrigen Kinder sind in rüren Amerika. Es ist eine direkte Subsidie für die rote Amerika. Und zwar nicht offensichtlich in Donald Trumps politischen Interessen, weil sie Geld von seiner Basis wegschneiden.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
So I think the other ingredient is this guy, this dude, and I don't know how to pronounce his name because I've heard it pronounced two ways. Russell Vaught or Russell Vote. The guy at OMB who is one of the architects of Project 2025 and who's got a kind of libertarian attitude that there's too much government, we just got to get rid of government.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And it sounds really good until you actually see what the government's doing and what happens if you remove it. And then you can start having a grown-up conversation. But it's like he's never had the grown-up conversation. And some of it might not make sense, but it's so crude.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
He seems to be an ingredient in the gumbo, because I can't, knowing Trump's total indifference to the bureaucracy, I can't imagine he cares all that much about the Department of Education. Die letzte Sache, dann werde ich aufhören.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Die letzte Sache, die durch all das durchläuft, oder es unterpinnt, ist, dass ich glaube, Donald Trump, eine andere Schlüssel, um zu präsentieren, was er tun wird, ist, wo immer es Vertrauen gibt, zu finden und es zu zerstören. Und der Grund ist taktisch, der Grund für das. Er selbst ist völlig untrustvoll. Er lügt immer, er schießt Leute aus, er zahlt ihnen Geld, all das.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Bankruptierte sechs Unternehmen, all das. Und er ist nicht wirklich so vertraut. Und er hat eine Schwierigkeit in einem Umfeld, in dem es um hohe Vertrauen geht. Wenn man ein paar Leute in einem Raum setzt und sie sich vertrauen, werden sie schnell Donald Trump ausdrücken.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Aber wenn er ein Spielfeld kreiert, in dem es keine Vertrauen gibt und niemand anderen vertrauen kann, hat er eine Art taktische Vorteile, weil er so gut bei unvertrautem Verhalten ist. Und ich denke, viel davon ist ein Tier, Lizard, Gehirninstinkt. Versteckt euch von irgendwelchen Dingen, die Leute vertrauen, denn das wird für mich eine Schwierigkeit erzeugen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und ich weiß, dass wir denken, dass niemand dem Regierung vertraut. Und wenn man es so sagt, dann tun sie es. Aber es gibt riesige Mengen des Governments, die die Leute einfach nicht wahrnehmen. Sie vertrauen die Wetterberichte. Das ist wie, wow, ich lebe meinen Tag durch dieses Ding. Ich muss es vertrauen. Obwohl es radikal falsch ist, was es selten ist. Ich denke, ich sollte es nicht vertrauen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
But he's trying to gut the National Weather Service. Like, why would you do this? He has some private interests there that he's serving, but also it's like he smells trust and he wants to get rid of it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das ist in Ordnung mit mir. Du hast nichts gesagt, was mein Gehirn auf Red Alert gebracht hat. Das klingt alles sehr sinnvoll. Ich meine, es gibt mehr als einen solchen Silicon Valley Nerd. Natürlich.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Eines der Dinge über diesen Strain von Leuten ist, dass sie nicht aufhören, richtig? Sie machen Manifestos, sie geben Gespräche, sie tweeten immer. Sie haben nie aufhören. Ich wundere, wie sie ihren Job machen, weil sie immer aufhören sprechen. And they have a crowd of people who are approve of them, who I guess celebrate what they say. And this is just me talking.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Maybe I'm not the world's greatest expert on what's interesting and what's not. But I keep looking for them to say something interesting. Like, oh... Oh, ich hatte das nicht gedacht, oder oh, niemand hat das je gesagt. Oder oh, das ist sowohl wahr und interessant.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und ich habe das Gefühl mit ihnen immer, dieses Gefühl, ich will ihnen sagen, was du gesagt hast, ist wahr und interessant, aber leider sind die Teilen, die wahr sind, nicht interessant, und die Teilen, die interessant sind, nicht wahr. Ich bin überrascht, wie dumm sie sind. Das ist das Ding.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und die Antiken, wie Elon Musk, wie er sich trägt, wie er sein Kind um die Schulter trägt, wie er ein Mini-Mini ist, der Chainsaw, all that stuff. It's all like putting a lampshade on your head at the party because you actually don't have anything witty to say. And it all feels like that. He's the dude walking around with a lampshade on his head.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And, I mean, has he ever said anything funny in his life? I don't know. Maybe.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Yeah, there you go. You can make a seven-year-old laugh. It's just... Oh, it's like a stink bomb at the party. Like, do I really want to have to listen to this person? Will you shut up? Like, there's so much more interest out there. And this is like one of the side effects of this political movement. I think of all the interesting people in the country.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Good to see you, Tim. This is maybe the first interview I've ever done where the host is in New Orleans.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
I mean, it is amazing that, you know, the range of artistic expression and it all gets kind of drowned out. von diesen Leuten mit Lampen auf ihren Händen, die an der Spitze ihrer Lungen schreien. Und ich frage mich einfach, an welchem Punkt jeder einfach müde wird, weil es so müde ist.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und, auf jeden Fall, Ihr Punkt, dass es eine Verzweiflung in Silicon Valley gibt, und Sie haben die Leute genannt, die die leitenden Lichter dieses Bewegungs sind, die ein Folgendes bekommen haben, das sich irgendwie an Donald Trump verbindet. Das ist wahr. Es wäre schön, eine seriöse Gespräche zu haben. Ich würde gerne mit Peter Thiel sitzen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Physically inside one of the departments of government and go piece by piece through what that department is doing and have him say, like, let's just have a conversation about why this is necessary, why it happened in the first place, why we're doing this. Ich würde gerne in der Energie-Departement starten, denn ohne die Energie-Departement würde Tesla nicht auf dem Boden kommen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich kann mich nicht erinnern, wie groß der Lohn war, aber ich glaube, es waren hunderttausende Millionen Dollar in Lohn- oder Lohn-Garantien für Tesla, die Elon Musk damals gesagt haben, dass er auf dem Boden kommen würde. Und Tesla-Employee haben gesagt, dass die Firma nie existieren würde, wenn die Regierung nicht reinkommen würde.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
So much of just technological growth, economic growth, springs from public-private partnerships. It springs from the government interceding in the economy. And that they have been direct beneficiaries of this and are still.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Not from there. Not from there, no. Walter has interviewed me, but in person in New York.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
and that they don't acknowledge it and want to go gut the things that actually made us all rich and made them rich, that's where it gets really bewildering and I'd like to have the conversation. Like, just explain yourself. Elon, you're the richest man in the world because this government came and helped you.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
There's one other thing that is bewildering to me and it'd be nice to have like, this would be like a A small group of people we all agreed were masterful at running big institutions. Like the dude who runs Microsoft. Clearly some kind of genius. People who, CEOs, types, heads of large organizations, maybe even a coach of a football team. And would sit around a table and would say...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Wie viele von euch haben es erzielt, indem sie ins Spiel gegangen sind und die Mitarbeiter oder Spieler verurteilt haben und ihnen gesagt haben, dass sie Idioten waren, dass sie sich für sie verurteilt haben, dass sie sich für sie verurteilt haben, dass sie sich für sie verurteilt haben, dass sie sich verurteilt haben, Und ich denke, sie sagen alle, du würdest das nie machen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das ist das Gegenteil, was du tust, wenn du etwas gut runntest. Die einzige Person, die ich kenne, die das gemacht hat, ist Elon Musk auf Twitter. Und es ist eine Art Katastrophe. Ich meine, die Leute, die mit ihm investiert haben, sind nicht glücklich. Das ist ein anderes Kind von Gespräch. Wir haben es nicht. Es ist wie ein Harvard Business School Case Study, wie man nicht etwas runnt.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Can I ask you a question? Please. I'm just dying to know, because you're living in my hometown. How do you feel my hometown is doing? How do you feel about New Orleans these days?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
I don't think I'd do what I do if I grew up in Topeka. I think I grew up in a... And I notice it even now. I think it was even more so when I was a kid. But when I land there, as I'm going to land there in a week, Vielen Dank. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich musste nicht ein Buch schreiben, ich wurde von der Neuen Republik ausgesucht, um die 96-Kampagne zu beenden. Das Zentrum von Dingen, Dole vs. Clinton, war so dumm und so kontrolliert, dass ich eine Art und Weise gefunden habe, es mit einer anderen Stimme umzusetzen. Konventionell würde es schmerzhaft sein.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich habe ihn angerufen und gesagt, ich mache das nur als Reise-Log und lasse mich nur dort gehen, wo ich es interessant finde, anstatt dort zu gehen, wo die Kampagne mich sagt. und es hat in der Neuen Republik geklappt. Es war großartig. Ich habe den Hauptcharakter, Maureen Taylor, gemacht und habe auch in der republikanischen Verteidigung gespielt.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und die Verzweiflung war, dass niemand wirklich etwas über Clinton oder Dole sagt. Es gibt keine Leidenschaft um einen von ihnen. Aber es gibt all diese Leidenschaft um all diese marginalen Kandidaten. Ich meine, einige waren nicht so marginal, wie Pat Buchanan. Und Du konntest die politischen Leidenschaften in diesem Land durch diese Kandidaten, besser als durch die Hauptkampagne.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und natürlich ist es auch mehr Spaß. Es funktioniert so gut und es war grundsätzlich kohärent, weil es nur mein politischer Reiseplan war, dass wir es als Buch herausgebracht haben. Aber du hast recht. Es war sehr schwer, nach der Kampagne ein Buch zu verkaufen. Allen Keys und Maury Taylor. Aber auch nur über das Event. Niemand will über die 96. Präsidenten-Kampagne lesen. Aber ich liebe es, Mann.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Es war so viel Spaß. Ich möchte nicht zu viel darüber reden, aber ich muss sagen, es war einer dieser Momente in meinem Schriftleben, wo ich bemerkt habe, dass man mit der Bedeutung nichts investieren kann, nur durch es zu beobachten.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Du konntest den Leser nehmen, der dazu gekommen ist, dass er über Clinton und Dahl lesen wollte, wo auch immer du sie nehmen wolltest, wenn du genügend kompetent warst. Wenn ich nicht über Maureen Taylor geschrieben hätte, wären die Leute überrascht. Das war lustig.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Das ist völlig wahr. Maury Taylor ist definitiv ein Proto-Trump. Er ist ohne Mächtigkeit und ohne Weisheit, ohne irgendetwas. Du kennst ihn und du weißt, dass er im Grunde eine süße Person ist. Aber er kommt von einer Position aus, die von niemandem weiß, was Governance angeht. Seine Qualifikationen haben er schon gewonnen. Er war CEO von Titan, Tire and Wheel.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ein sehr erfolgreicher Geschäftsführer. Aber er hat diese sehr erfolgreichen Geschäftsführer, die Resistenz zu der Idee haben, dass die Regierung irgendetwas nützliches macht. Und wenn du all diese verschiedenen Charaktere, Ansichten der Welt zusammengepackt hast, You just got a fuller portrait of where America was politically. So as a result, you can see where we are now.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Then, you're just looking at Clinton and Dole, you'd never guess what would happen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Briefly, let me explain the project. Together with David Shipley, the former opinion editor of the Washington Post, I went out and hired writers I just loved. And they aren't conventional journalists. Most of them are sort of performers, novelists, people who are really talented at making material entertaining.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
It was Sarah Val, Dave Eggers, Kamau Bell, John Lanchester, Geraldine Brooks, and Casey Sepp. A wide variety of voices, basically. Dropped them into the government and said, just find a story. And I did this because I had written a book während Trump 1, der fünfte Risiko, wo ich einfach überrascht war, wie qualitativ das Material in der Regierung ist.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Ich meine, Trump hat mich dazu geworfen, daran interessiert zu werden. Und ich habe nicht erwartet, dass die Qualität der Charaktere, die da waren, die Bedeutung der Mission. Ich meine, man kann überlegen, was die Regierung tun sollte, aber wir alle stimmen, dass sie einige Dinge tun sollte. Und es gibt Orte, wo Leute Dinge tun, die niemand anderes tun wird.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und du bist nur dankbar, dass sie sie tun. Und sie sind großartige Charaktere und sie kennen ihre Charaktere nicht. And their stories never get told for a whole bunch of reasons, which we can talk about if you want to get into that. So we launched these real talented writers at this beast. I did two of the eight pieces. And they're long. I mean, my first was like 13,000 words. And out came...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Wie eine wunderschöne Reihe von Geschichten. Also habe ich geschrieben. Der erste Teil des Buches geht um einen Mann namens Chris Mark, der das Problem der Kohle-Miner-Rüben löst, die auf die Hände der Kohle-Miner fallen, was sehr komisch klingt, aber es ist ein Problem, das 50.000 Kohle-Miner in Amerika zerstört.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Aber ich glaube, das ist das, wo es wirklich interessant wird. Es ist wie was in den Kohle-Mining-Markten passiert ist. Das hat das Problem verursacht. Mein Charakter ist ein Historiker in seinem eigenen Bereich. Er zeigt, dass Technologie entwickelt wurde, damit sie die Technologie in West-Virginia viel sicherer machen können. Und was sie mit der Technologie gemacht haben, ist...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
die Kohle teurer machen, während sie den gleichen Risiko behalten. Sie hatten eine Arbeitskraft auf einem bestimmten Niveau der Mordhaltung. Und sie haben es einfach dort gehalten. Und die Kultur war eine Art macho-Kultur. Es ist wie der Risiko, den man mit der Kohlemine übernimmt.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Chris Mark, mein Charakter, zeigt, dass es tatsächlich nicht bis zu dem Zeitpunkt war, dass die Regierung mit Verbrechen, wenn sie die Technologie nicht richtig benutzt hat, und mit... die Sachen, die er herausfindet, wie man die Technologie benutzt, um den Ruf von dem Fallen zu halten, dass die Sicherheitsrechner beginnen zu verbessern. Aber ich glaube nicht, dass das in jeder Industrie passiert.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Aber ich denke, dass die Kohlemine eine so kompetitive Industrie ist, dass sie so schädlich kostet. Und es gibt viele kleine Kohlemine, sodass niemand denjenigen will, um das Geld zu sparen, um es sicher zu machen. Und die Bevölkerung der Arbeiter war nicht sensibel zu kleinen Veränderungen in der Sicherheit. Der ganze Grund, weshalb es ein Regierungsproblem war. Aber anyway, das ist einer.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Sarah Val, mit der du später sprechen wirst. Ich lasse das auf einer Seite, weil sie über die Nationalen Archive geschrieben hat und eine Frau, die sie runtern hilft. Ein Stück, das völlig unerwartet war. John Lanchester, den ich einfach liebte. Englischer Schriftsteller.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Er kam rein und sagte, ich weiß, dass du mich wahrscheinlich über die Person reden möchtest, aber mein Charakter ist der Konsumpreisindex. Er sagte, es ist grundlegend für das Vereinigte Staates, dass es Dinge zählt. Es kann keine Macht zählen, ohne dass es Menschen für einen Zensus zählt. Und es ist in der Verfassung geschrieben.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Und das Vereinigte Staates ist der größte Zähler von Dingen in der Welt. Und was es zählt, ist unglaublich. Und es bietet im Grunde Porträte unserer Gesellschaft und der Gesellschaft anderer Menschen mit sehr vorsichtigem Statistik-Kollektion und Analyse.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And he just takes one of these things, the CPI, and shows just how hard it is to do this well, just what a monumental achievement it is, and just actually, incidentally, how at risk it would be in nefarious hands. We trust it. We just assume that whoever is doing it is doing their best.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Well, if we don't actually know what inflation is, I mean, for a start, the Federal Reserve won't know how to adjust policy. I mean, it will sow confusion into the minds of people. People will have to kind of guess what was happening with prices. You know, that in and of itself, it'd be interesting to see what happened if you just actually totally politicized it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
There are no hints that they're thinking this way. They fired a bunch of experts who helped the Department of Labor Statistics investigate.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
So that's right out of the Trump playbook, that if you want to know what he's going to do, see what he's accusing other people of doing. Usually falsely. He's a master of bearing false witness. He operates within the limits of his imagination. His imagination is spurred by the awful things he can imagine other people doing. It's usually fantasy. He's had the idea then, that oh, you can do this.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And oh, in my mind, they've already done it, so I can go do it. That's sort of the psychology of it. Und das ist die Psychologie, die dazu führen würde, wie du es sagst, wie sie anfangen, etwas zu machen, was sie machen wollen. Wenn du das Bild der Gesellschaft verlierst, kannst du es nicht umsetzen. Ich meine, das ist das eine.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Aber in Bezug auf die Inflation, sagen wir mal, wir wussten plötzlich, dass sie es nur umsetzen. Und sie hatten die Kontrolle über den Geldverbrauch, sodass die Federal Reserve nicht mehr unabhängig ist. I think what happens is it becomes self-fulfilling. We're panicking and grabbing at ways to sort of preserve the value of our dollars.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
You know, you think bank prices are bad now or housing prices or whatever, that there becomes the anticipation of inflation increasing. Spurs it. So John Lanchester wrote about that. Dave Eggers wrote about people at NASA who were looking for little green men in distant space and doing really interesting research.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
There wasn't one of the things where you read it and you thought, oh, we don't need this.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
um zu illustrieren, wie einfach es ist, die Geschichten aus dem Baum zu bekommen, wenn man es nur ein wenig schlägt. Diese Geschichte I was working on a book about the pandemic. It's called The Premonition. A character in that book is a genius mad scientist at UCASF named Joe DeRisi. And he figures in My Premonition in one way.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
But while I was with him, he said he happened to have thought he found a cure or at least a treatment for a brain-eating amoeba called Balamuthia. Wir haben noch nie über Balamuthia gehört, seit der Mitte der 90er-Jahre. Es wurde in der Mitte der 90er-Jahre entdeckt. Es ist verantwortlich für viel mehr Todesfälle als wir wissen, weil es nicht identifiziert wurde, aber es wirkt wie Enzephalitis.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Dein Gehirn explodiert. Keiner wusste ganz sicher, wie die Leute es bekommen haben, aber kleine Kinder haben es bekommen. Und es scheint, als ob sie Dirt ingestellt hätten. Ein bisschen unklar, wie es kommt, aber egal. Also, ein Patient hat mit diesem ins UCSF-Hospital gestorben. Er ist gestorben.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
Er nahm das Balamuthia und bombierte es in seinem Labor mit allen bekannten akzeptablen Chemikalien, die man in Menschen reinnehmen kann, allen bekannten geprüften Drogen. Nicht nur in den Vereinigten Staaten, sondern auch in Europa. Und er fand, dass es einen Drogen gab, der für UTIs in Europa genannt wurde, namens Nitroxilin, der tatsächlich dieses Ding getötet hat.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
The next time someone walks into the hospital with it, you know, the person is going to die if you don't do anything. He bombards it with Nitroxalin, the doctors do, and the person survives. Really good sign. So I watched that. I just watched that happen. I said, wow, you solved a problem. He goes, no, I haven't solved a problem because we know about it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And if someone happens to call me, they will get that treatment. But like the doctors of America don't know about it. And I said, okay. Well, doesn't like someone in the government or someone somewhere assimilate anything that's been done about these rare diseases so that there's like a database? And he said, nope.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1005: Michael Lewis: Government Workers Aren't the Corrupt Ones
And then he paused and he said, you know, this is one woman, one woman in the FDA who badly wants to do this and who keeps pestering me.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1000: David French: Trump Admits He's Violating the Constitution
politics, culture, you name it. We're talking about it, and we're keeping it 100% real right here on the Michael Steele Podcast. I'm Michael Steele. I'm the host of the Michael Steele Podcast. Each week, I'm having conversations with political analysts, writers, and activists who aren't afraid to shake things up a little bit like yours truly.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1000: David French: Trump Admits He's Violating the Constitution
It doesn't matter if you're on the left, the right, or somewhere in that strong middle. This is the space you want to be in because we cut through the noise and hit the heart of the issue. Oh, and we're definitely going to have some fun while we do it. So grab that drink, hit play, settle back, and let's get into it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1000: David French: Trump Admits He's Violating the Constitution
Catch the Michael Steele Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast groove on.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
You know what I mean?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Yeah, I supported active research projects on identifying sources of critical minerals in the U.S. domestically. It bothers me that he's more interested in engaging in neocolonialism to get minerals from other countries, rather than supporting the scientists and the researchers who are aiding the minerals industry here in America. You're talking about Greenland. And Ukraine.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
For many people, yes. The USGS is the most prestigious earth science research institution in the world. And we've been at the office this whole time. We do work in laboratories at the office, but lots of people are in the field every day. We monitor the nation's waterways. We monitor earthquakes, volcanoes, and other hazards. We study ecosystems. So our office is our nation's lands.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Right.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Yeah. Michael, what did you think? It's always time for television ads. If I if I'm the opposite party, there's so much of Trump's speech that I would be canning for commercials that run tomorrow. I'd have my guys and gals working right now on the Social Security speech, a piece on the Ukraine piece. They're just nuggets you pull out because this is. The trip is the narrative.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
And I want you to trip over my narrative because we've been tripping over yours. Right. Because you've been laying out as president. You've been saying all this stuff. Tonight, we heard the president. I just wrote this down. This was a tale of American empire. Because at the end of the day, he wants to run it all. He wants to rule it all. He wants to control it all.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
So it's a tale of American empire. What Slotkin did was beautiful because it was a tale of a working American family, community. and not getting lost in empire, but actually doing what we've always done from the very beginning, and that's creating with our hands and our minds and engaging the country.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
So those two narratives, you stand them up, I can tell you sitting in this chair tonight who would win that argument.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
I'm sorry, as much as we want to deliver it to you right here.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Yeah, well, I'm shrinking in my chair on that one. But, you know, again, even the use of drill baby drill misses the mark. We are past that because we are leading already for what we're drilling. We are leading in production in the world. So, you know, we did it. All right. But the fact that you're still talking about it tells me at least you don't know what we've done.