Michael Steele
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
You need to bring a certain physicality, meaning your physical presence to this discussion so that people can have a face or faces that they see that are fighting not for their own personal interests, situation. That's part of it. But these are public servants.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
These are men and women who've been serving in these positions throughout every administration, not just Donald Trump's first term, but George Bush's, Bill Clinton's. We have this sense that the government is laden with all of these left-wing ideologues who just want to be so woke that they do all this crazy stuff. No, that's not the case.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The FBI is one of the most conservative organizations in government. There are a few wokes in there.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Because the way you do that is by leveling up what evidence you have. When you go after USAID, then put the evidence out there. And don't just cherry pick something out of a budget line that's part of a bigger budget. We can all do that. That's no reason to shut down an agency because they spend $30,000 on something you don't like out of a $100 million budget, OK?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I'm very much of the mind, yes, and always argue about looking at how we make government more efficient and work better on behalf of people. For me, that's about response times to problems, wait times on phone calls, duplicative efforts across agencies or within departments. That's not what Project 2025 is about. They don't give a shit about any of that. They just want to eliminate agencies.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And here we are now. And then seeing people all of a sudden now, do I have a job? How can he do this? Where does he get the... Bitch, please. We told you. We told you this shit was coming. We told you what Project 2025 was. So for me right now, Tim, it's just I'm very frustrated with the way the story in the last 18 or so days has kind of unfolded and the reaction to it more than anything else.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Let's be clear about why, Tim. They are doing all of this. You know why? Because next month and succeeding months, they've got to deal with re-upping of the massive Trump tax cuts. There's no money in the budget to do it. Nope. So this is what this is about. They're cleaving these agencies to pay for this tax cut. Trust me on that. This is not about, oh, we want a more efficient government.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
We're going to shut down the Department of Education. We're getting rid of USAID. We're going to streamline the FBI. All of those dollars have got to go somewhere. How do you perform the investigations that the FBI is currently involved in if you're shutting down half of the field offices? Who's doing that work? So the work goes away. The money is freed up. Where's that money going to go now?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
They both agree on blowing it up, but they think on the other side of that, The piece that they want is going to be what they get. And that's not where this, that's where the fight begins. I want to go back to the Elon Musk thing and just say this. The other mistake, I think I agree with you about Elon Musk. There's so much there to say about this guy. There's this immigrant who's taking the U.S.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, but he's still an immigrant, right? This got all of this power that he's been given. I think the strategy has to be, that's great. But Elon Musk is the bright shining object that is a distraction in some extent. Everything Elon Musk is doing has to be tied back to Donald Trump. Because this is the great setup. I give you Vivek Ramaswamy, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
When they started the old HB1 visa thing and that whole thing started to blow up, Where's Vivek? Anybody seen the brown skin guy? What happened? What happened? I thought we were partners. I thought we were all in this together. They dumped his ass so fast and make your head swim. Right. Jettison. Oh, this is a problem. Our white base is upset, right? Let's blame it on, okay, Vivek.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so Vivek's like, oh, okay, I'm gonna go run for governor. Okay, baby, you go ahead and do that, boo. The reality of it is, You have these pieces that are in place doing what they're doing with the idea that Donald Trump, at some point, should it all go sideways, goes, how did that happen? Right. Because he's done it before. And so Elon Musk, everything he's doing. Yes, I hate it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And that's because Donald Trump told you to do it. and put it back on Trump. Just don't leave it on Elon alone because trust me, Republicans and Trump are going to scapegoat him like a dog. When it goes south.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And why the crap are we polling on an unelected guy? Who the hell cares? He's not an elected official. Why are we polling on Elon Musk? Right. And the reason is, is because that negative number, that minus 46 percent or whatever, would otherwise translate to Trump. Now, look, it's a bargain for exchange. Elon Musk is getting exactly what Elon Musk's one side.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
He don't give a rat's ass if he's upside down in his popularity. He's a billionaire. He's the richest man in the world. What does he care, right? He's got control over the contracting system of the federal government. The Doge isn't looking into his NASA contracts.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The Doge is not going to recommend that the government streamline the excesses in those contracts, because trust me, there's a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse in those contracts. But they're not going to carve that out. The man made $400 million. On inauguration day, right? This is all about how he's going to make more money. The bargain for exchange is, I'll do what you need me to do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I just want to be the world's first trillionaire. And all those other motherfuckers sitting behind Trump at that inauguration, they want a piece of that too. So just need to be clear-eyed about what's happening in front of us. So when the whole thing collapses, we know why.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
on to another trump thing gaza uh you know it's like sometimes like what do you what do you even fucking do with some of this shit but trump uh trump uh it was the other night folks let me just say when tim starts muttering under his breath it's not it's not a good it's not good trust me it's not good
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And it's typical Trump bullshit because it ain't happening. You know why it's not happening? Because the Saudis have already said it's not happening. And there's not a deal that's going to get cut in which Jordan is going to say, oh, yeah, give us more Palestinians. All right. It's just not happening.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But Trump throws it out there and he throws it out there in such a way that, you know, as you rightly noted, you look at the face of Bibi and Susie Wiles and go, did that shit just happen? Did he say, you know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of that moment when he did the presser. in which he said, yeah, well, you can take the bleach and you can inject it in your system.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And he looked over at, what's her name? Deborah Birx. Yeah, Dr. Birx. And she's like putting her head down, go, I know this mother, just not say put bleach in your arm, right? That was that moment. That was the exact same scenario. Here's the deal. Again, you get sucked into the rabbit hole talking about Gaza, right? in the way that Trump wants to do Gaza.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Folks, stop for a moment and say to yourself, how does that stabilize the Middle East? How does having Trump Casino on the Gaza Strip and making Gaza the Riviera of the Middle East, how does that stabilize the region? You think Hamas is going to just say, oh, a beach club. Shit, I can get a tan.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I got the burqa that, you know, lets the sun rise. The burqini? The burqini. I got my burqini.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I love Tim. And this is why Tim was a good comms guy when he was at the RNC. And this is why he's been a great comms guy since. is because that's exactly what you do. That's exactly what you do. That's why I was just saying in the little bit before about, you know, yeah, all right, in the Senate, play hardball.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Put these guys in the box where they have to account for the bullshit that's coming out of this man's mouth. Yes, I would absolutely sponsor the bill and put it on the floor on the committee and say, okay, that's what he wants to do. I think that's a great idea. I'm all about even naming it. Trump Hotel and Casino Gaza. Let's do it. We'll budget for it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And let's let's appropriate to get to get the feasibility studies and all that in place. Two hundred and fifty million dollars. Let's just do that. And watch how plastic collapses.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, it's real. It's real work. And then, you know, all the other stuff like the relocation of two million people, the countries that won't take them, the terrorist organizations that won't go away. All of that shit will just dissipate once we start construction on the Trump Hotel and Casino Gaza.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
All right. So I listened to that. And, you know, Candy Girl here is just she's just so she's so just so sweet and yummy to listen to. So delicious. So I responded back. But on day one. Trump told us, quote, I want on groceries, very simple word, groceries. We're going to bring those prices way down, end quote. Trump, I want my prices at the grocery pump to go down now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Right. What the fuck is a grocery... Anyway, at the grocery pump, I can't afford the eggs I need to put into my tank. Because that's what you do. Okay, so this is what you're telling me. So... Look, folks, Trump has already told us he doesn't know how he's bringing grocery prices down because he can't. It's too hard. He's now admitted that. But we knew that. You knew that back in November.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
You knew exactly what you were doing with your vote. And the layup about, oh, my God, the price of eggs, you knew it was bullshit then. And it still is. Because if you don't know anything about your own personal market, you know that you adjust. You did. You know how I know you adjusted? Because a lot of y'all asses went on a very nice long vacation during the summer.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
In the midst of all of the so-called high prices, you took a break. And you packed up those eggs, and you went with your family someplace nice. And that's OK. And I just think now all of this doublespeak bullshit coming out of this White House about, oh, well, we're cutting this and we did that. There's no plan here. There never has been.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Because there are things that are affecting the price of eggs that have nothing to do with Joe Biden or Donald Trump. There's a little thing called bird flu. Little thing where you got to put down 2 million chickens.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of that moment where Jesus looks at Peter and he goes, dude, before the cock goes two times, you're going to deny my ass. And he was like, oh, hell no. I will die for you. What are you talking about? Right. Next thing you know, hey, Peter, you were with him. Now, I don't even know who he is. Right. That's these Republicans.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
If you go back in time and you told them this is what you would do. Oh, no, there's no way in hell. But we know now their nature. We know now who they are. They have been exposed for what they are. And just as Christ knew the nature of Peter in that moment, we know their nature. And so I'm not surprised.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I said weeks ago that all of these, after the whole thing with our boy from Florida went down, once they got him off the docket, It was clear sailing. They weren't sacrificing anybody else. This is my frustration with Democrats. I still think Gates would have got through, too, by the way. You know what, Tim?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, look, I'm all about grace and all of that stuff, but I know the thing that's in front of me. I know what it is. It has exposed itself time and time again. It tells me over and over again what it is. There is no redemptive feature here. There is no, oh, gee, gosh, I'm sorry. I should be that kind of president as opposed to this kind of president that I am.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Yeah, I totally agree with that. I thought that the weakest of all of them was Tulsi Gabbard because she cut the closest to the things that Republicans seemingly still care the most about. And that is the whole national security piece. So her narrative in that space was bad for a Donald Trump has already told them, well, if you don't go with her, I'm going to primary you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And once you tell them that, they're like, oh, shit, no, I can't afford to be primary because this is the most important thing I've ever done in my life. And I cannot give this up because it's all about me. F the country. I don't give a shit about the country. She can tell Putin whatever she wants as long as I get reelected and don't have a primary. That's what this crew is about.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
That's what their leadership is. It is pathetically sad. the level of pussydom that they have created.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Different words are banned. And God knows if you say DEI, that's like saying the N word. So just be careful.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I'm good, baby boy. How you doing, man? Well...
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The presidential election or the chair's election? The chair's election. So two weeks ago. And I thought Chairman Wickler out of Wisconsin said, would be a better fit for this moment? Because this moment aligns a lot like it did for me in 2009 after the loss in 06 and 08, a really bad brand for the party. You have a very popular president sitting down on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
They have the House, the Senate. So then how do you now figure out the strategy to begin to claw back the narrative? My hope is that he brings... He's the chairman of Minnesota, the Minnesota party, and apparently... is a good tactician in that regard, in that space. He's going to need that, I think, to put in place some tacticals.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
If he levels up a 50-state strategy, if he starts with branding and messaging at the grassroots, in his first test case will be two states that are going to be important this November, Virginia and New Jersey, especially Virginia, which is going to have a very I think, interesting and hotly contested race for governor between Spanberger and Winsome, Lieutenant Governor Winsome.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So you're going to have an opportunity to see how your messaging plays in Northern Virginia, which went slightly red in the last election, and how you can then translate that more broadly across the country. This is not just about, oh, you know, raising a lot of money and that's important. Your problem isn't money. Your problem is message and the fact that people don't think you're credible.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so that's going to be an important first test, how you begin to claw back credibility. To be honest, you're not being helped by your members in the House and Senate. So I'm just letting you know.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I should actually not look to blow up the federal government. But as true conservatives has always argued, let's look at how we can make it function better and not overreach. Right. And that's not what this has ever been about. It has never been about that. And there are a lot of people who know that now, knew that then.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
They didn't have a reason to vote for Kamala. They really didn't. I mean, outside of, you know, certain narratives, there was nothing that gravitationally pulled the American people away from it. And it goes back to the joke, you know, we've been talking about the price of eggs and all that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But look, if voters find a reason to stay in a space and you know it's not a real space, it's not a legitimate space, that there are other things that they need to take into consideration and to move them,
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
If you don't create that conversation, if you don't give them that appreciation that, yes, it is the thing that you're holding on to, the price of eggs, whatever, but these are other things that you need to contextualize, they're going to stay where they are. And when you talk to voters afterwards, they pretty much told you, I didn't have a reason to move.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so throughout that campaign, the question is, how do you move the narrative with voters? That's always been the problem. for this administration going back to the very beginning. The last administration. The Biden administration, yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. Was going back to the very beginning.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
That's why I alluded to, you know, Joe Manchin and his, you know, tying people up in knots for 18 months over something like the filibuster. And the American people are going, who's Phil? Who's Buster? And what did they do? Why is everybody so mad at them, right? Not understanding what the fight was about. And the Democrats are fighting over process, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Donald Trump is out here just slinging a wing and saying, that's your problem. They're focused on process. I'm just going to go in and blow it all up. And so when people become frustrated with the process, the idea of blowing it all up is really appealing. Yeah. And no one ever corrected for that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And so, yeah, when you're sitting there looking at the numbers, they were telling you one thing, but voters were saying something else on the ground, just as they did in 2016. And I just felt that all the efforts that folks like you and me in working with Democrats in the democracy space, they still didn't get what the fight was about.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
bring uh you know doing Patrick Mahomes anyway it's you know they're not all fire it's a it's not all they're not firing on all cylinders there I don't they're not and and people think that's endearing they just think uh well that's just Trump being Trump well you know yeah I guess the town idiot is just the town idiot and you just everybody just rolls by that's nice if we
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And for me, I just can't go down this merry lane that, oh, now let's just try to understand and be nice when that's not what this bitch is about. And as I said about Hakeem Jeffries, that's my boy. I'll roll with Hakeem. I appreciate his leadership.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I kissed Zac Efron. Same thing. I had to coach him a little tongue action.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But I'm sorry, when you're handing over the gavel, you don't look at the thing in front of you that tried to overturn the last election and was in the back room fomenting insurrection and say, we're going to now lay down our swords and pick up our bipartisan plowshares. He's going to take that plowshare and shove it up your ass because that's what they're about.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And I wish the hell people would get that shit in their head and understand this thing is not democracy. This thing is not democratic, small d. This thing is not the expression of what the founders wanted. In fact, this thing is what our founders warned us against. And I just, in this moment, am fed up with everybody's bullshit.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
excuse making, cry babying, wringing of their hands and not understanding, use the damn system against them. I don't know why the hell Chuck Schumer is the minority leader in the Senate. He shouldn't be because he's gotten punked every which way from Sunday by the Republicans. You think you're going to get something different?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
In this iteration, John Thune is not Mitch McConnell in many respects, but John Thune is going to do what? What John Thune wants to do? Or what Donald Trump wants him to do? Tim, I don't...
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
understand why folks continue to pretend that if, if I say it nicer and if I go visit him and if I, if I plead or cajole or pretend with him, that somehow Donald Trump is going to turn around and go, you know, I appreciate that. So let me, let me play nice with you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
It sucks real hard right now. I'm at a point where I'm frustrated and angry at the same time with the way storylines have played out with no response. And it is galling and mind numbingly stupid to me that we see the arrogance and disregard of this administration, the leveling up of the menagerie of misfits to be secretaries of fill in the blank and directors of national intelligence.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I don't know. You know, I live in the world, Tim. My political experience that I learned many years ago from the likes of Marion Barry and Joey O'Dell and others here growing up in Washington, D.C., is... Words are meaningless. It's dude, show me what you got. Show me what you got. You know, because I can tell you anything.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But if I'm going to smack you upside the head after the conversation, that tells me everything. Right. So I hear the, you know, maybe we can do this or do that. Just do it. Don't don't telegraph it. Don't talk about it. Just do it. Look, Tim, this is where I come from. For 18 months, Joe Manchin tied up the Biden administration over the filibuster and a whole host of other bullshit.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Wouldn't let this bill go through. Held up that. Tommy Tuberville, perhaps the dumbest member of the United States Senate, held up over 200 DOD appointments. Generals, people we needed out in the field for how long? By himself. By himself. And we got Democrats sitting here trying to figure out, oh, gee, I don't know what we can do to stop Kash Patel or Tulsi Gabbard's appointment. Yes, you do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So don't talk to me about how bad it is. We know how bad it is. Damn it. Do something. Even if you slow the roll at the end, the outcome is, yes, they get through. At least you slow the roll of the process and you let them put down the marker. that this appointment is an abomination. It is bad for the country. We know what Kash Patel is going to do at the FBI. Why do we know that?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Because he told us, not once, but over a 10-year period. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Tim, that is exactly what the play is. It has always been the play. They couldn't get it in gear. in the last term, they had four years to sit down and figure out what the mechanisms were. I participated in a number of efforts to sort of war game their strategies during that time and what it potentially would look like.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So I'm not surprised at this because along with a number of other folks, we looked at, okay, if Trump comes back, what does he do? And this is exactly what we figured he would do.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The problem is that those other institutional responses from the United States Congress to individual agencies has not played out the way we thought they would, that there would be a more aggressive response to this fact. This fundamentally is the play. We're just going to do it. And I've said this over the years about Donald Trump is something I learned about him for the first time.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
I worked with him back in 2013. He will always, always do what he wants to do until you stop him. It's not complicated. Yeah, not complicated. It's not. And the reason he does it, Tim, because he doesn't believe you can stop him. And so that's the arrogance that he brings to this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
But that arrogance has got to be met with an equal arrogance, which is why I love the president of Mexico, because she was like, all right, bitch, bring it on. You want you want to put tariffs on me? Cool. Because Donald Trump didn't think Canada and Mexico would respond the way they did. Because what did he say when he put out that that executive order talking about the tariffs? I dare you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And there doesn't seem to be a counter narrative, let alone counter efforts to expose this bullshit for what it is. And it's frustrating because I feel like folks like you, myself and others are out here clang the bell, the warning bell saying, guys, don't do this. Trust me. It's not the price of eggs. Okay. I hear you, but it's not the price of eggs. That's the least of your problems.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
And they were like, OK. And to be honest, I think Canada kind of followed the lead of Mexico because she wasn't playing. She's been tough. She wasn't playing. So that's at the core of this is exactly that. We're going to do it until you stop us. And by the time you get to stopping us, we will have already messed it up so badly. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
What are you afraid of if you're already losing your job?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
The reality of it is lawsuits are not visuals. I can't see your lawsuit. I'm not in court. I don't want to be in court. But when your ass is standing outside of the FBI building or you've got federal workers who are protesting in local offices or trying to get into a building that they work in, physically involving themselves in trying to get the nation's attention on what's happening to them.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
That's an important visual. The next visual is going to come at a very, very profoundly personal level. When your ass tries to access government services, that you need Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Texas, et cetera.
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
So what are you going to do then? Because that's when it hits you, because you think, oh, shutting down the government. Yes, just do it. Well, OK, who's going to process your Social Security payment? Who's going to process the case that you had trying to get services and help for your parents or for your family member? But that office is now shut down. What are you going to do?
The Bulwark Podcast
Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works
Who are you going to call? You're going to call that member of Congress who's sitting there going, yes, more, please. Who are you going to call? So that becomes the next level of reality here. I agree with you a thousand percent.