Danny Jones Podcast
#276 - Santa's Elf Explains Jersey Drones, Lost Diddy Tapes & Hawk Tuah Scam | Matthew Cox
Thai fried rice with an egg on top. Some trail mix. A Coke with wine.
Danny Jones Podcast
#276 - Santa's Elf Explains Jersey Drones, Lost Diddy Tapes & Hawk Tuah Scam | Matthew Cox
Thai fried rice with an egg on top. Some trail mix. A Coke with wine.
Danny Jones Podcast
#276 - Santa's Elf Explains Jersey Drones, Lost Diddy Tapes & Hawk Tuah Scam | Matthew Cox
Thai fried rice with an egg on top. Some trail mix. A Coke with wine.
Danny Jones Podcast
#276 - Santa's Elf Explains Jersey Drones, Lost Diddy Tapes & Hawk Tuah Scam | Matthew Cox
The tap water is probably not safe. And then I got a little surprise for you guys where we're going next.
Danny Jones Podcast
#276 - Santa's Elf Explains Jersey Drones, Lost Diddy Tapes & Hawk Tuah Scam | Matthew Cox
The tap water is probably not safe. And then I got a little surprise for you guys where we're going next.
Danny Jones Podcast
#276 - Santa's Elf Explains Jersey Drones, Lost Diddy Tapes & Hawk Tuah Scam | Matthew Cox
The tap water is probably not safe. And then I got a little surprise for you guys where we're going next.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's very difficult for the average guy to commit fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because there's so many safeguards set up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you were to go in and say, I make $300,000 a year.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, well, we want your W-2s.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We want your pay stubs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to call your employer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to check to make sure your employer, how long they've been incorporated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to check to make sure they're registered.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like your whole plan fell apart because the average guy can't do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He can't even come up with the pay 7W2.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the average person, you know, or I'm going to put down this much money, but you're going to borrow that money from the seller.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, okay, well, then they start asking for bank statements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Where did the money come from?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How long has it been in your bank?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like you can't even have it put in your bank for a day, get a letter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it's got to have been there for 90 days or 60 days, depending on the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so there's all these ways for the average person, it's very difficult to commit fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The average guy that works at Walmart and makes $60,000 a year and he's been there for five years and he saved his deposit, like it's a very, that's really the guy that those transactions are set up for.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
To borrow a mortgage from Bank of America, that's the guy they're looking for.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have to be able to lie to the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Anytime you lie to the bank, you've committed fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it's funny, when I was doing it, I would say, ah, it's in the gray area.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's no gray area.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're either lying in some capacity or you're not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's, it, for instance, the very first loan I did, I, I whited out, um, my borrower had been 30 days late on her, uh, on her rent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they're really looking at the last two years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when, when you go into the bank and that most of what they're asking you is a, is a two year window, they're saying, how long have you been on their job?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They care about two years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And how long have you been at your residency?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're looking for two years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, you could be at three places in two years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's fine as long as you consistently paid for two years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, she had been in an apartment complex, but she'd been 30 days late.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, she caught it up, but she was late.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The bank doesn't want to lend you money if you've been 30 days late.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was a broker and I whited out the 30-day late.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just got rid of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my manager is the person that told me to do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, it'll be fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was right, it was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I mean-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I was worried.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I always say, you know, I sweated bullets for four or five days, you know, but I mean, I was concerned.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I don't know that I was concerned that I had broken the law.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was concerned because I was behind on my truck payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was behind on my mortgage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I had banked on being a mortgage broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'd gone deep, deep behind on all my bills to do this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So in the last minute when this loan isn't going to close and I have to commit fraud to make that happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the idea, my fear was they were going to figure it out and maybe I'd get fired.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I didn't think I was going to go to jail because my manager assured me you're not going to jail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like you'll get fired at best.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So my concern was they were going to catch it and I get fired and I wouldn't get paid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I needed that money so bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we'll maybe paint the picture here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Where were you working?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Who was the manager?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The manager was, it's funny because I don't think I ever really mentioned this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Her name was Gretchen Zayas.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She eventually, I don't mind saying it, but she eventually ended up going to jail for fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Her name was Gretchen Zayas.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was a manager.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was working for a company called Eagle Lending.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was in Tampa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this was like my first month.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So my very first deal, three or four weeks into it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
into that first month and i walk in i put the file in front of my manager she looks through everything you know oh great good good and put this one piece of paper over here and sat there and then when she was done i said uh what's what's going on she is perfect files perfect she is but your bar was 30 days late on her rent and she says that that's it's done she's like that's a deal killer
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, oh my gosh, you know, what do I do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember she pulled out a thing, a whiteout.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Remember the whiteout?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not the sticks, but the one, and she started going, and I was like, what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, if I was you, and she handed, she said, I'd white it out, make a copy, stick it back in the file.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, it'll be fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, I could, I was like, that's fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could go to jail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like, they're never going to catch it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, look, I do stuff all the time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, they're not going to catch it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And nobody's calling the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was the worst case scenario.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If underwriting catches it, then they'll fire you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody's calling.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're not going to jail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was, you know, I trusted her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I did what she said.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I stuck it in the file.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I mean, like I said, for four or five days, I was like, oh my God, I'm so scared.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How old were you at this point?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Probably 29.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think it was 29.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, like I had gone to college and so many things had not worked out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I got a degree in fine arts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not, it's not a, there's not a lot of people looking for anyone with a fine arts degree.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I tried my, I tried to be a,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
uh tried to be a an insurance adjuster try that for about a year year and a half that didn't work out uh ended up ended up working construction for a few years and you know so finally the girl i was dating said you got to be a mortgage broker you know she just had just started as a mortgage in the mortgage industry and she was like you have to do this like you were born to do this this is perfect for you
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What did she see in you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, it's just, you're a salesman.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, cause I was like, you know, I barely balanced my checkbook.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I don't know, I don't know anything about numbers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like, it has nothing to do with that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's sales.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's putting together deals.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, you're good at that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're good at negotiating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're, you know, you're a natural sales salesman.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I figured I, I needed to try something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, one, you have clients that have lots of options.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They can go to Bank of America.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They can go to SunTrust.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They can go to Chase.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They have options if they have perfect credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I ended up working for a company that was a subprime lender.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And those people didn't have a lot of options.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Honestly, by the time they got to Eagle Lending, their options were over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what ends up happening is you're negotiating with sellers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You would think that a lot of the stuff that in that industry that real estate agents should do, the brokers end up doing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because real estate agents are used to you meet them at the house or they take you to several houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They open the door.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They walk around.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They write up a contract that's legit, a legit contract.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you're already pre-approved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everything works out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But subprime, that's not the case.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You got borrowers with horrific job history.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't have enough of the down payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They can't, maybe they have the down payment, but they don't have the closing costs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you have to go to the real estate agent and say, listen, I need you to raise the purchase price and have the seller pay the closing costs, which is legal, but that's not to a degree, but that's not how they wrote up the contract.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So now you're having to get them to rewrite the contract.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
or there's little things you're trying to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the more deals you get done and the more you deal with certain real estate agents, the more you start to realize that they're, you know which ones are completely above board and which ones are willing to twist the rules.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And a lot of it works on personal relationships.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
For some reason, people tend to like me and trust me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
know why.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It hasn't worked out for so many people, but people naturally seem to trust me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so if I say, hey, I can close the loan, but you got to do this, it'll be cool.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't worry, we do it all the time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like my third loan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I've been doing this for years and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They go, oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then they raise the purchase price.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They add some money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They have the seller of the house give the borrower some money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They stick it in the bank or they put it in an escrow at the closing company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now you're starting to massage deals.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What was the second time you committed a crime?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So how did it start to evolve from the whiteout?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I mean, when that went through, I think a normal person probably would have said,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Wow, it was a one-time thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Got away with it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But for me, it just emboldened me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I just got a check for like, I don't know what it was, $2,500, $3,500.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was thrilled.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And by that time, I was already working on another deal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But that guy, he made, I forget, something like, he'd made like, let's say $45,000 the year before in his W-2.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you, based on his...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
based on his current track record or his year to date of his pay stub, he made just enough money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But if you factored in last year's W-2, he was shy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So if I change that $45,000 to $51,000, then the loan closes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get a check for $3,500.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He gets into a house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm doing him a favor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm doing God's work.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I fix it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I kick back, I'm terrified a little bit, worried about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sure enough, it closes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Four or five days later, they call me, he's ready to close.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A week later, we close, I get a check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Next guy that comes in, I mean, I got very, very quickly
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was concerned.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you have a house?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you have a deal?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is it ready?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can get you done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, if you were in bankruptcy or something, there's some things you'd pull their credit and you just couldn't help them if they had a 550 credit score or something and no job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it had to be within reason.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But very quickly, it was changing W-2s, changing pay subs, changing appraisals, fixing, like I said, verification of the rent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it evolved very quickly for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I told myself that right up until, that those loans were solid and I was helping those people out, right up until I went to prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was in prison and I had to write, the government asked me to write an ethics and fraud course to help teach the nation's mortgage brokers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, all loan officers and brokers have to take, I think it's nine hours of continuing education every single year.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was approached to write the ethics course.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was about that time and about the same period of time I was writing my book.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that kind of, I started reflecting on what I had done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, the truth is like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and this is a horrible thing to say, because the first time I ever heard somebody say this, I remember thinking, oh, that's a horrible thing to say.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Some people should not own a house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They shouldn't be allowed to borrow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're not in a position financially, you know, and there were many occasions where I put someone in a house that they 100% swore they could afford.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was, I was helping them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I told myself I was helping them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And a year and a half later, they're going into foreclosure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Their stuff's on the corner.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't know where to go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the truth is, is that I'm not smarter than the actuaries that came up with those underwriting guidelines.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So in this whole process, how are you making money?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I charge a broker fee.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or you charge yield spread.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So yield spread is, let's say the interest rate is 8% interest.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If I charge them 25 basis points over the 8%, so I charge them 8.25, then I get 1% of the loan back as a fee.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So if I charge them 8.5%, I get...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
two points back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So if it's a $100,000 piece of property and the bank says your interest rate is going to be 8% and I tell you 8.5 and I'm charging you a $3,500 broker fee, now I'm making $5,500.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So on even a $100,000 loan, you could make a nice chunk of change.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it's
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, every time I change something, it wasn't gray area.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just committed fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At this level, you either meet the guidelines or someone has massaged it in such a way that they've committed fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's tons of ways where you can commit fraud and they just can't figure it out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Does that make sense?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I mean, you've committed fraud and it's like they look at the entire, they look at all the documents and they double check everything and they know there's fraud in here and they just can't find it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Exactly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Doesn't mean it wasn't fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So your credit profile is made up of,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Your, you know, your name, date of birth, your address, and, you know, your social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, those are the kind of, you know, and then there's other things where you work, that sort of thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But what people don't realize is there's so many people out there that think that the credit bureaus already know who you are.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But the truth is the first time the credit bureau has ever heard about you was when you told them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The first time you applied for a credit card, they created a credit profile at that moment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Prior to that, they had no idea.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the first time you apply, you give them your full name, date of birth, social security number, and your address.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they create a credit profile and they say, hey, no record found of this person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He has no credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nothing probably got denied.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, what I realized through the course of because eventually I end up leaving that one company and I open my own mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When I opened that mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was on the inside, does that make sense?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I wasn't just a broker that was sitting out with everybody else and would periodically come in and ask questions or would call underwriting but really didn't understand what was happening and exactly what the underwriting guidelines were.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now I was actually talking to the underwriters and you're talking to the owners of the lending institutions and the banks and you're talking to all of the account executives.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And now it wasn't just Eagle Lending I was talking to,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There were 40 different account executives coming in on a weekly basis trying to get us to sign up with their lender.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're on the inside telling you, coming in, showing you programs and saying, look, if your borrower is...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, self-employed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We don't ask for this or this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We just ask for them to say they're self-employed like liar loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You've, you've heard the term liar loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, no doc loans where they don't ask for any documentation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If he's got over, like, let's say a 700 credit score and he says he's been a plumber and he works for himself, then he's got over a 700 credit score.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He just has to say he's worked for himself for over two years and they don't ask for any documentation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got the money in the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got a 700 credit score.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says he's been on the job for two years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's self-employed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to raise his interest rate by 1%.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got the loan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But you start to know how things work because I hired a bunch of brokers to work underneath me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when they would get caught,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I would get the phone call.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get the phone call from the owner of a bank or a lending institute, you know, a lender.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that lender says, hey, Matt, we got a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, what's up?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, it's like, listen, we caught a fake W-2.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, what do you mean?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, your broker so-and-so sent us a file and this person had, there's two fake W-2s and we're assuming the pay stubs are fake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, are you serious?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How did you even catch that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they go, oh, well, here's what we did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We checked with sunbiz.gov, which is the Secretary of State's website that registers corporations.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we checked and the tax ID number didn't match.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And now I know every W-2 has to have a matching tax ID number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
for whatever corporation issued it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then you're slowly learning.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Slowly, yeah, exactly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's the process for detecting fraud?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I had a pretty good understanding anyway.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But so I'm starting to learn that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm putting these things together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember one time I had a woman come in and she came in and she had perfect credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She had like 750 credit scores.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it was perfect.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she came in
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And one of the brokers came in and said, hey, man, can I show you something?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, yeah, what's up?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, look, he said, I've got this woman's W-2s here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I looked at him and he goes, here's your credit report.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, here's the application.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is the social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went, all right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, this is the social security number on the W-2.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Keep in mind, you go to get a car loan or credit card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They never ask for these things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So and he was like, I'm really shocked he even noticed it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I probably might not have even caught it, but they were different.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, really?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, so I did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, she just brought him in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, she's here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, oh, bring her in here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she came in, sat down and said, listen, here's what we just found.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like, oh, okay, you know what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't want the loan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just, I go, no, no, no, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, listen, you're getting the loan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You got a 750 credit score.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I don't care what we have to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're getting you the loan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just want to know what's going on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How did you get 750 credit scores under this social security number when clearly this is your real social security number?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You've been working for this company for 10 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And your credit profile says it's only like three years old.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, what happened?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what she told me she did was,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She went through a divorce.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She had been married for 10 years, used her husband's, I mean, his surname for 10 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she has no credit under her maiden name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But when they got divorced, she switched to her maiden name because when she tried to get anything in her husband's surname, it was denied, bad credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he had bad credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Their credit went bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he switched to her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She switched to her name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And a friend told her if she needed to get her electric or anything turned on, she could use her name and use her daughter's or son's social security number, which was like a four-year-old kid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she used that and it went through.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She had to put a deposit down, but it went through at least.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Wasn't denied.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So that went through.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then she went and she applied for an apartment with that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sure enough, it went through.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She had no credit, but they said, you don't have bad credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she said, once she moved into the apartment, she then started getting these pre-approved credit cards.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she goes, but I knew I had applied there using my son's social security number, let's say.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she started filling those out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And sure enough, she got a credit card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then she got two.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then she got a pre-approval from Ford Motor Credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She went and got herself a new car, got approved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She'd been making the payments ever since.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She has 750 credit scores.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She thought she'd try her hand at buying a house in his name, in his social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we caught it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she got a house in that name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We closed it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She could have claimed bankruptcy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then two years later, listen, two years out of bankruptcy, you can go into Bank of America and get a conventional mortgage, assuming you have perfect credit outside the bankruptcy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have the down payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You make enough money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's a whole bunch of, you know, a bunch of underwriting guidelines you have to meet.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's possible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But you're right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
For instance, she wasn't getting an apartment using with her bad credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She wasn't getting her utilities turned on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She wasn't getting any of those things done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she stumbled into it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But she basically...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
explained it to me and i i mean i don't think she had walked out of the of my brokerage office before i went and i just started making up you know names and i think i went i went and into our file cabinet and grabbed some people's uh 1040s which we had you know
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
their tax returns and looked up children's social security numbers and just grabbed some random kids' social security numbers and their name and went and pulled them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I changed their date of birth to be an adult.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Pulled it and sure enough, it came up, no file found.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It didn't say fraud alert or fraud or anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It didn't say mismatch this, mismatch that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It didn't say anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It just said, no file found.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, then we went and we applied for a couple of credit cards.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Using a child social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then we went and pulled our own credit report.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And sure enough, it didn't say no, no file found.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It just said that there had been two inquiries applying for credit cards.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was like, wow, like that's a credit profile.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So that turns into me going to social security.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and calling Social Security and trying to get them to issue me Social Security numbers to adults that had never had a Social Security number issued to them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need to get Social Security number to give me a clean Social Security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I called up and of course, you know, I'm a novice.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't really know what I'm doing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I call up and I say, hey, yeah, I'm a
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Never had a social security number issue.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were like, how old are you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, I'm 31 years old.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were, yeah, that's not possible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you have a driver's license?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have a bank account?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have a social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bring your driver's license in and we'll pull it up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, well, that's not going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hang up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Call back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hi, my son...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
is seven years old or three years old and he he never had a social security number issued oh okay was he born in a hospital yes well he has one he has one go ahead and uh get your son come in here no i'm not doing that hang up call back so i called back probably 10 times and eventually
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Someone said I kept altering it, kept altering what I was saying till I got to the point where I was saying my son was born with a midwife, not in the hospital.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the pediatrician told us that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
we needed to go, we need to get social security to issue a social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they would say, well, he should have issued it, but that does happen sometimes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So bring your son in and we'll, you know, you fill out paperwork, we'll have one issued.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, first we'll check to see he never had one issued.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if he hasn't, we'll issue one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so then it turned into my son is out of the country and I need this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then that turned into, oh, I'm sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, how old is he?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, you know, he's three.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they go, well, I'm sorry, if he's over the age of 12 months old, he has to come in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hang up the phone, call back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My son is 10 months old.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's out of the country, born with a midwife, never had a social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then they go, oh, okay, that's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just get his birth certificate and his shot record, and you can come in, fill out the paperwork, we'll issue you a social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's what I did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I figured out how to create a birth certificate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I ordered the security paper, you know, when you make a copy, it says, you know, void if copied.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had to order a bunch of that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went online and figured out how to make a fake birth certificate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was great, too, because, like, the county, actually, they give you a blank form.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then they actually show you what it looks like filled out, like a handwritten one filled out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I knew if he was born this day, he got these shots.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Two months later, he got these shots.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Six months later, he got these shots.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I just filled it out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I even had to order a seal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you have to have a seal that says like Hillsborough County Vital Statistics or Richland County Vital Statistics or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I couldn't get anybody to make that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I changed it to like Richland County Office of Virtual Records.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I took like 220 grit sandpaper and hit it over and over and over again to wear it down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I did the embossment on the corner.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I printed it on the security paper, embossed it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody looks at those things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could see Richland County.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could kind of see that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And really, they just grab it and they go like this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is what you realize after you... When I started getting driver's licenses issued by...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
by the state DMV, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The state, I figured out eventually it was easier to just go into the DMV and have them give me a driver's license than actually make one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, but you notice they would just grab the thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They'd feel the form and go, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like they don't even look at it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, which is upsetting.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you put as much work into these documents as I am for them to go, okay, yeah, that's good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sit over there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I felt like going like, hey, bro, like, take a look at this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is artwork.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right, because now I have the name, I have the social security numbering.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's great is they mail you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's even better is then you get to pick whatever name you want, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because when you pick your child's name, he doesn't even have to have your last name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You pick any name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I would pick a name and I'd just say, oh, my wife's last name is this, if they questioned it, which they never did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I've got a social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I would go apply for credit cards.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'd get denied, of course.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But they would all offer me a secured credit card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'd then fill out the secured credit card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'd send the bank the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they would give me a secured credit card for $500, $300, $1,000, whatever it was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then once you start making the payments, I pulled the credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And a credit profile shows up saying that this 31-year-old man
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
with the social security number that I know was issued, you know, a couple months ago, has three credit cards.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't even say secure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They just say, there's like, this credit card is $500.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was issued by Bank of America.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This one was issued by Capital One.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This one, so I've got three of them, but I had no credit scores.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So at that point, I kind of kicked back and waited.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just kept making payments.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember thinking to myself,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll bet you that the credit bureaus don't generate credit scores for at least a year.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, God, this is gonna be a year-long process.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And while that was happening, I was starting other ones.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because I figured at least in a year, I'll have a bunch of these, we call them like phantom borrowers, but now they call them synthetic identities.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So at least I would have these synthetic identities and maybe I'd do something with them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But what happened was at six months, I went...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I randomly pulled the guy's credit, you know, the person's credit and 705 credit scores, 705, 701, 695.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, oh my God, you only needed a 620 to borrow, to get a 95% loan from the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was like, oh my God, this is amazing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sure enough, a month later, the other ones I had started, all of them, bam, bam, bam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I think most people, if you were just like a scammer or a fraudster, you would probably just get credit cards.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And maybe build up that history or maybe try and borrow a personal loan, which is limited.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Personal loans used to be you could go to an FDIC insured bank, which borrows money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The personal loans they lend out at the max $15,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you could do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right, you get 15, maybe, you know, if you want to keep making the payments, you know, if you could wait a year, you could probably get 15,000, maybe, you could maybe get 20, 30,000, and a bunch of little smaller ones, you know, you get 7,500.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because I did, there was a $7,500 from Citibank, you know, $5,500 from American General.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you maybe get, what, 25,000, you know,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
maybe $30,000 in personal loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe you can, you could then apply for
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you can maybe get another 20 or 30,000 in regular credit cards, you know, 10,000 here, 8,000, 5,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then you go to the lower department store cards and you go to Home Depot, you get a thousand, you get 500.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it ends up being, maybe you can get 50, 60,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe if you really good, you could get up to 80 or a hundred thousand dollars in credit cards and personal loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you really knew what you were doing, but.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Per person, per identity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Per identity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I had the ability to
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
to leverage those perfect credit profiles against properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I mean, ultimately that's what I ended up doing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so each one of those identities was worth
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, a few million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what I did eventually, I mean, this was like, is down the road, but you know, I mean, at this point when things are just, my whole life had kind of gone off the rails, I was on federal probation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so what I did decide what I was going to do was start running a scam, a much larger scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what I was going to do was I was going to start flipping properties, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like buy houses cheap, fix them up and sell them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's an area of Tampa called Ybor City.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was going to start flipping houses in Ybor City.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I thought, okay, I can buy these houses for, you could buy a really crappy house at that time for 50, $60,000, let's say 50.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then you could put $25,000 into it in renovations.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could renovate it for 25 and maybe you could get an appraisal for a hundred.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I thought what I could do is I can buy these houses, renovate them and sell them to regular people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I also had been working on the synthetic identities.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I thought, well, or I could just sell them to synthetic identities.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I wouldn't have to dump $25,000 into it, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And these guys are perfect.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They have perfect credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can provide W-2s and pay stubs because by this point, I'm manufacturing businesses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I've got, I've got, I've incorporated businesses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've got websites for the businesses, W2s, pay stubs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So these guys have, these guys look perfect.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I figured I'll buy these properties for 50,000, sell to these guys for a hundred.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe I'll pocket 40 or 50,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't really have to do anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
but that seems short-sighted so i thought would be even better is that if i did a little bit of renovations and then i sold it for much higher maybe i put 10 000 clean up the outside of it because these guys don't care what the inside of of the property looks like you know they they're not they don't exist so and then i but i can't how am i gonna get an appraisal for a hundred thousand dollars
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, do you know how appraisals work?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, so the bank sends an appraiser out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or at that time, you could provide an appraisal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They can review it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they'll do what's called a desktop review.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They review it on the computer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They never go out to the property.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or they send someone out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They call that, you know, it's like a field review.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They send someone out and they just look at the house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't go in it though.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I have to clean up the outside of the house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what I did was, but the problem is, is if your house is, you're trying to sell that house for let's say 200,000, the other houses, they have to pick three comparable sales in the area that are also going to support a $200,000 sales price.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, there's no other houses selling for 200,000 near this house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I thought, if I want to get these things appraised for $200,000, $250,000, I have to have comparable sales.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that appraisal is going to be reviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what I did was I went out and I bought this house for $50,000 and I recorded the sale at $200,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when you buy a house for $100,000, you pay $700 in dock stamps.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But if you pay an extra 700 bucks, the sale shows up for 200,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm buying these things for 50, so I'm paying $350.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm just paying an extra $1,050.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it ends up being $1,400, but the sale shows up at $200,000 on a house that's a crack house I bought for $50,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now I go, I trim the trees.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We mow the yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We clean up the porch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We put a porch rail on maybe.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We paint it real nice.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We black out all the windows.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can't see inside, but from the curb, it looks great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I get an appraisal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I do that with that house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I do that with another house, all within a mile.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I buy four houses knowing I could use
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there's a subject and three comparables for all of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the first thing I did is I bought four houses for $50,000, $60,000, $40,000, and I recorded the values at $210,000, $200,000, $190,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get an appraiser to come out there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He appraises it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Of course, he says it's horrible, but there's comparables here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, of course, it is in bad shape, and he says it's in bad shape, but I go ahead and I correct all that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I correct it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So now if you review the appraisal and you're in California, or even if you drive your car down, the appraiser comes to the house and looks at it from the street, it looks fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But the truth is I've got $60,000 into this property and you're appraising it for 200,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the bank's ready, they're not gonna lend 200, but they'll lend 190.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the bank is ready to lend this synthetic borrower
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
$190,000 on a house that I have 60,000 in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I schedule a closing and we close on the house and I walk away with $60,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the thing is like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The problem was, is by the time I got to this point, I knew so many people in the industry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody had to really, at that point, show up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Although I've had people show up for the synthetic identities and sign for them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Almost all the closings, nobody ever showed up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just showed up and said to the title agency and said, hey, my borrower, he's at work right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He can't make it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Can I just take the file and I'll have him sign all the documents and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
at his work and i'll bring him back he's like an hour and a half away from here i'll be back in two or three hours they're like oh wow man matt thank you so much and they would give it to me and i'd go sit in the parking lot and i'd sign all the documents i'd wait an hour or two and i'd come back in and say here you go how are we able to keep all this in your mind because you have to not slip up in any of these conversations it's pretty easy for me to for me to keep them
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
everything in the correct category.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Does that make sense?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not great at a lot of things, but this I was very good at.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, keep in mind, the appraiser almost never meets the borrower.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Never.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not even almost.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like 99.99% of the time, they never meet them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, they all had different jobs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They all had, all the jobs were basically, they were all on the job for five years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They were all, a lot of it was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, exactly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But, you know, listen, all matter of fact, almost every one of them had the same birth date, you know, so because I, you know, who knows?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's so it yeah, it wasn't difficult.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And keep in mind, a lot of the brokers barely ever meet meet the bar.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They call in on the phone, but it didn't matter anyway, because I'm walking and saying, I got a slam dunk deal for you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mm hmm.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're like, oh, wow, Matt, you got the W-2s, the pay stubs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You've got all their rental history.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have everything done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's perfect.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Thank you so much.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're happy to do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hey, I print up the docs and I'll have them go sign it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Thank you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, assuming they didn't already know about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Almost everybody involved in this by the time I was done was involved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There was probably 15 or 20 people that all knew what was going on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The full of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They knew the full depth of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe not 100% everything, but they definitely knew this is fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were still going along with it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Keep in mind that even when I give you an example, one of my
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, let's say, and this happened with almost all of them was he would buy five houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the guy bought, what happens, the basic design was I buy the houses, I record the values higher and this person buys all five houses, refinances them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He ends up borrowing a little bit over a million dollars in his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then of course, then I go and I, I get,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
personal loans from several banks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get credit cards.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I run up all of his credit cards.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By this point, I've got 10, $20,000 worth of credit cards in the guy's name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the guys are all worth like a million, million and change.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, once I stopped paying, you start getting letters from the collection companies, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
From the banks, you know, and then they sell them off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So after about three months, you're getting tons of letters.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what I would do is I would take my borrower's name
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I would go online and I would find, or I'd go in the newspaper and I would find an article about, let's say, like a 12-car pileup.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there's a huge accident on I-4.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's very dangerous.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there's a 12-car pileup and someone in the accident was life flighted to Tampa General Hospital.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I would cut and paste that article
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I would just insert my borrower's name into the article saying that, you know, Brandon Green was life flighted to Tampa General Hospital is currently in critical condition.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I would then print that article out on newsprint and then make a copy of the cut it up, make copy of the newsprint, highlight his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I would write a letter from Brandon Green's
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
fictional sister to the collection companies saying, several months ago, my brother was in a horrible car accident.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He is currently, they've got the article, they have the highlighted name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He clearly was in this accident.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He is currently in a coma.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the doctors say, even if he wakes up from the coma, he will never work again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That, you know, so you might as well just foreclose on stop writing those letters and take the houses back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's all they're looking for is a reason.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At this point, even if they look into Brandon Green, they can't figure out if he's a real person or not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because he's got a social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And everything went bad at the same time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got multiple rental properties or his primary residence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All of his credit cards went bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everything went bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We have an excuse.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We have a letter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That happens.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
People get divorced.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They lose their job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They get in accidents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's reasonable.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Even if they ordered another appraisal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By this point, it's not four comparable sales or three or four comparable sales.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By this point, it's like 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50, because I kept making more and more of these guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So at first I thought about making a fake death certificate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He died.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I thought, I don't know, what if...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, like some of these places had like, you know, primary mortgage insurance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like what if the primary mortgage insurance, like what if they try and claim because he was dead or like, I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know that side.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm like, I don't want to do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to do something that's semi-verifiable and third parties, like a third party telling you this is what happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought, well, like the newspaper, you know, and.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or do I claim bankruptcy?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I've done that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've gone and got the bankruptcy forms.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can go to the bankruptcy court, and they'll give you forms to mail to all of your creditors.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you mail them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They stop contacting you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They wait to be notified by the bankruptcy court.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But my fear there is nobody's ever going to notify them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going through bankruptcy for one of these guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it was like, this is a better bet than just writing a letter saying,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going through a divorce.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My wife's keeping those houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's her problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, you could do, there's lots of things you could do, but to me, this was, they're not going to try and, how do you, how do you shut it down without him dying?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How do you shut that down?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is how you shut it down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's in a coma.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He'll never work again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was in a car accident.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's the proof.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He can't even write you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm his sister.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I wrote you the letter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Exactly, exactly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I don't know exactly how that, you know, what sparked that as much as there were so many other avenues that I could have gone that I just didn't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But you were thinking through all those different avenues.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Are you mostly thinking alone?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, you know, I had guys that I was bouncing ideas off of.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There were other guys that were involved in the scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, everybody...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
that scam ended up making like the fbi said it was like 11 and a half million or something and and you know but but there were so many other people that were involved in that scam that were you know this guy's getting 50 this guy's getting 20 you know 17 000 20 000 25 000 and you know we're just doing it constantly and so the bank would foreclose on that property they'd take it back
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They put it back on the MLS.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They put it back on the MLS for $200,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It wouldn't sell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then they drop it to $150,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It wouldn't sell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then they drop it to $125,000, $130,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It wouldn't sell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They drop it to $90,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And somebody buy it for like $90,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It wasn't worth $90,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But by that point, that whole area had... We'd done so many houses at that point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The whole area shot up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The FBI said we did 109 houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't think that's true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When I end up leaving Tampa after that scam falls apart and the FBI shows up, Forbes came out with an article, whatever, six months later, and they said that the Ybor City zip code was one of the top 20 fastest growing appraising areas in the country.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And everybody was like, oh, that's mad because this place is a dump.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is a horrible place.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember one time I had talked to a guy years later and he was like, oh, all the comparable sales have dried up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like when you left, there was just nothing even close to $200,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How did that happen?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I mentioned that I own the mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had started a mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had maybe a dozen guys working for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And there was fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I would say, it wasn't all fraud, but whatever, 60, 70% of it was fraud that was going in there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And from the outside of that business, it looked very legitimate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We were an FHA approved lender.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We were a VA approved lender.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We did conventional, probably signed up with 40 or 50 subprime lenders.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But there was a considerable amount of fraud and, you know, it kept getting, you know, it became a game, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I started getting just more and more creative.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I said, every time I would get away with something, like you become emboldened by it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like nice, you know, like, hey, the underwriter's looking for this and looking for this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you sit there and go, man, so that she's, you know, that's...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know what we could do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We could create our own bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's what we're going to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to go on, like, how do they know if this bank exists?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These people are in California or they're in New York.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, they don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what we're going to do is we're going to go online and keep in mind, this is 2000, you know, this is 2000, 2001.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like this is the internet's
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
in its infancy still, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we figure out, I remember GoDaddy, I think, had just come up with a site where you could build your own website.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like how cool is that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go online with a buddy of mine and we create something called the Bank of Ybor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, we cut and pasted things that we liked from other banks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we got a 1-800 number you could call or a 186 number, whatever it was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you could call it and it would go to a voicemail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so we set up this bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I ended up making bank statements, which by this point, I already had been making bank statements to prove someone has their down payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because a lot of times people, they have good enough credit to borrow 95% or 90%, but they don't have their down payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we'd raise the purchase price high enough to cover their 5% or 10% down payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we would bring their down payment for them, or we'd have the owner of the house bring the down payment for them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then we would have a check cut out of the closing statement to a construction company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
that i owned and we get our money back so they get into the house for 100 financing or 110 some of them turned into 130 we want to pay off their car give them an incentive to sign um they don't still have the money to buy it so we're doing all kinds of insane things well at some point
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Remember Gretchen Zayas, my old manager?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, the original.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She came and worked for me for a short period of time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then she and her husband went and opened their own mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
which you should have known it was going to be fraudulent from the get-go because it was called creative financing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was CFM, creative finance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, creative.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Creative was in the name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Creative was in the name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, boy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's really on the nose.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's doing very well.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we became very close, by the way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We go on vacation, went to Puerto Rico together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got married at the time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was married.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Our kids play together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We babysit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We go to each other's parties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're close.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're good friends.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's got her own mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She calls me up periodically and asks me, hey, can you make a W-2?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or hey, can you make me a pay stub?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sure, no problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're friends.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's what fraudulent friends do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, if I needed somebody to verify rent or verify somebody's rental history or employment, she had cell phone, she would answer that sort of thing for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, what ends up happening is she gets in trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She starts doing fraudulent loans for some guys, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And these guys are doing what's called a cashback scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they're getting like a half a million dollar loan on a house that's worth $300,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they're buying the house for whatever, 600,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's really only worth 300, 350.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But she happened to be in an area where she could get the appraisal jacked up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they buy the house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They get two, $300,000 back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it's a straw man scam, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a cashback straw man scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So this is a real person that's buying the house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got perfect credit, but he's willing to let to ruin his credit to get a couple hundred thousand in his pocket.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he never has any intentions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's not a synthetic identity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not a stolen identity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a straw man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's a fake, kind of a, not a fake person, but he's just a straw man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's a stand-in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he stands in, he signs the paperwork, he buys the house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They end up getting two, three hundred thousand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, this guy buys like five houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's two, $3 million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They've lost
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
five, 600, six, $700,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And these guys never even make the first payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They just let them go into foreclosure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the bank immediately investigates and realizes this is fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the FBI comes in, they grab Pete and Gretchen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She has to hire an attorney, of course.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she doesn't get thrown in jail or anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They just come to their office and they tell them they're investigating them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They know what's going on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they want to talk to, they're like, well, look, we want to talk to you and you're going to be indicted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she comes to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, actually, Pete came to me and said, look, man, can you refinance our house and get a $75,000 out to pay our attorney?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, no problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Gretchen gives me W-2s, pay subs, fake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The whole thing's fake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I refinance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get a second mortgage on our house, $75,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They pay their attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Their attorney immediately says, you need to wear a wire on this guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He just got you $75,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know how you got $75,000, but the attorney knows something's wrong because the attorney's like, your whole mortgage company was just shut down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's no way you could borrow $75,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he's like, this guy's doing fraudulent stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, yes, of course he is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, you need to work with the FBI, wear a wire against this guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she calls me one day and says, listen, I got to talk to you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The FBI is asking questions about you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, meet me at the pizza place down the street.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So don't come into my office because everybody knows she's been indicted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like everybody in her office quit when the FBI, the FBI shows up and gives you a business card and announces they're the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody quits.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I said, do not have, do not, don't, don't come here because they already know they're already concerned.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go and I meet her and Pete and we sit down at a restaurant, you know, a little pizzeria.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I sit down and she starts telling me that the FBI is asking questions about me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, well, what are you talking about?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, what are they asking?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, look, they came in, they took all our files.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And like, I was like, I don't know any of this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, when did this happen?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, yeah, a couple of weeks ago.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they have some of your files because I had closed several loans for my wife.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At the time, we were buying rental properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My wife didn't have a job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's all fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I could not close those loans in...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
at my mortgage company because I own the property.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm selling those properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I bought properties, renovated them, and sold them to my wife to get around something called seasoning.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Seasoning says you have to wait six months to a year to refinance at the market value.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Otherwise, if you want to refinance, that's fine, but you have to refinance at the price you purchased the property at.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I bought these properties for 80 or 100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
renovated them, sold them for $200,000, $300,000 to my wife, who didn't even get a big mortgage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We were just trying to kind of get around a guideline.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But my wife was not working, and I provided W-2s and pay stubs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when she says all this, she says, yeah, they're looking at the loans you gave me at your wife's loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, my God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, you didn't tell him that the W-2s were fake, did you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You didn't tell him the pay stubs were fake, did you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You didn't tell him that the down payments were.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You didn't tell him that we were married, did you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, just absolutely buried myself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And as I'm telling her this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, I kind of caught myself and I'm like, okay, wait a minute, look.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, here's what you're gonna tell them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're going to tell them you never met her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She called on the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I start trying to devise a plan that will answer their questions without getting my wife in trouble or them in trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if nobody cooperates, the whole thing should shut down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it doesn't go anywhere.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's no way, there's nowhere for them to go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody just kind of stonewalls them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So as I'm saying all this,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Gretchen says, Matt, we can't lie to the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, what are you talking about?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're already lying to the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, you've been lying to the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I just refinanced your house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And before I can really say anything, Pete jumps up, her husband stands up and he says, we've never lied to the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We may not have told them everything, but we've never lied.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I thought like, who are you talking to?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I know that's not true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you're not saying that for my benefit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was just, I kind of look at them and I'm like, what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember looking down and this may mean nothing, but both of their cell phones were right next to me, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember they were probably just wearing wires, but I just remember thinking those cell phones are microphones.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They probably weren't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I remember thinking, oh, wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I just, I looked at it and I went, wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, well, I hope you're going to get something for this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She immediately starts crying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, Matt, I'm sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a kid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't go to jail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I have a kid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I have a kid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I... Wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That must have hurt.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's cute.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I love the idea of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't think that... No.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll tell you why.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go back to my office.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I remember I told her, I said, tell the FBI agent to call me on the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do not come in my office.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm still trying to figure out how to weather this, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I sit down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Phone rings.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My secretary comes in and says, hey, agent, I'll never forget the guy's name, Agent Scott Gale with the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, okay, he's on the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's standing there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, close the door.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Get out and close it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get on the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He asked me if I'll come down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, yeah, absolutely.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let's schedule it for next Tuesday.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I put it off four or five days.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go to my brother-in-law immediately, who's a lawyer, and he says, oh, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't really tell him exactly what's going on, but I tell him this is what's happening, kind of, and I may be in trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need a
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need a federal defense attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't even know what a federal defense, I don't even know the difference, but he said, you need a federal defense attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he, we go on a couple, we meet a couple lawyers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I ended up getting a lawyer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I give him like 75 grand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he started to have me convinced.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Initially, he had me convinced I was probably going to go to jail for a few years, but really that's what they kind of do to justify you giving them $75,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But the more I thought about it and read, he gave me the guidelines that supposedly I had – the fraud that I had committed and the guidelines that oversaw that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I read it and I was like, I'm not really in trouble here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because I'm looking at a felony, but I'm not going to go to jail because there was no potential for the bank to lose money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So because I bought the house with like a hard money loan, and then I renovated it with my own cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when I sold it, it appraised at $250,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My ex-wife borrowed like $180,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there's plenty of equity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If the whole thing had gone into foreclosure, they still would have got their money back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And to be honest, by the time all this happened, there was only like three of the three properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like five, but we'd already sold a few.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at this point, we'd just sold another two.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's like one or two properties left.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we're selling at that moment, we were selling them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was like, no, I kind of argue with them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But then he wanted 75 grand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I gave him 75 grand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then he comes back and he says, good news.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There was no potential fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I can get you three years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, here's the thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's what I always kind of look back at.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When I first went into his office, he said, he said, listen, you haven't been indicted yet.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I spoke with the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I spoke with the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They believe and they've been told.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, look, they didn't tell me exactly what they have, but they said with the evidence that they have on you based on two confidential informants,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That you cannot go to trial.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Of course, I knew that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, but...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, you haven't been indicted yet.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they are fairly certain that you're running a mill, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A fraud mill over there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then you guys are churning out fraudulent loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now they can't come and they can't come and raid your office and do anything about it yet because so far they only have you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But here's what I'm saying is that he said, I can keep you from being indicted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's called pretrial, it's a pretrial intervention where we go in
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what we'll do is you go in, talk to the FBI, you go grab a bunch of your mortgage broker's most egregious files.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Grab them, bring those files to the FBI, go work with the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They will indict them and you will not be indicted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
which I kick myself to this day, I said, absolutely not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not gonna snitch on them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not gonna cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going to, you know, I'd seen the Godfather.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're not supposed to cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're supposed to be loyal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not gonna do any of that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, and so I say all of this, where, you know, looking back, like I would have, if I could go back in time, I would have gone into our weekly meeting
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
with a dolly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I would have walked in front of everybody and scooped up two or three of the file cabinets and put them in the back of a truck and said, listen, you guys are going to be talking to the FBI soon.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I suggest you get attorneys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I would have driven off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I didn't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought, no, be loyal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, don't do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what happened was when the other thing falls apart, right, when the next scam falls apart,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Every one of these people go to the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like they're not even coming to them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These guys are going to the FBI with lawyers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to tell you what Cox did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to help.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm thinking like I never had to get indicted to begin with.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I only had one person that did not talk to the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had one person that every time the FBI or the Secret Service went to that person's door,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, don't come to my house again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't have anything to say about Matt.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have nothing to do with any of this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Talk to my lawyer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this happened over and over again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's my ex-wife.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's a gangster.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, the problem is eventually I cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At the time, I didn't want to cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't believe in cooperation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But after seeing how many people cooperate and the way the system is set up, I think that my understanding of loyalty is vastly more realistic now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think that if you're committing crime
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you're absolutely like the things I did, I did a bunch of scumbag things, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I'm not killing people, but I'm doing scumbag things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm lying, cheating, stealing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm a thief.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, you boil down to it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's what I am.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you can't go around behaving like a scumbag, dealing with scumbags, and then expect those same scumbags to suddenly...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
abide by some kind of a street code and not roll over on you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it does happen, but it's in the 90 percentile of people that cooperate, 90-something percent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And people cooperate when they're not even looking at any real time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So if you're looking at 30 years,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And especially after going to prison, you go to prison and it's like, this guy's a standup guy over here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He got 30 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He could have cooperated against all of his co-defendants, but he didn't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody comes to see him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His wife divorced him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His kids ended up in foster care.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His friends are cleaning out his house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody puts money on his books.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody comes to see him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody answers his phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He took 30 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Most of those guys turned around.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They end up getting indicted for other things years later.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the best thing this guy's got going for him is that he can walk around and say, well, he's a standup guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That guy's going to the same halfway house as me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's going to do 30 years where I'm going to do 10.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I remember I talked to one of the COs at the prison one time and he said-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I said, shit, I said, 50% of the guys here snitched.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, it's more than that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, but listen, he was 100% of them are lying about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, so there's nobody here that's going to tell you they snitched.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there's guys, tons of them that cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If 80, 90% of defendants cooperate, you start doing the math.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if you ask 10 guys in prison, all of them say, I didn't cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, okay, you ask 100.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody's going to say I cooperated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It does.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It does, but...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I have such a low opinion of people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know what I'm saying?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I don't expect – it's not that I don't like people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's that I just don't expect anything of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't expect you to look out for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There was a time when I did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought I look out for you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You should look out for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I just don't expect that anymore.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That may be, but these aren't people with integrity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These are criminals.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If these were decent human beings...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And all of them will tell you, well, why'd you do that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, you know, I was a drug addict or I needed the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, if you were a decent human being, you would have gotten off the drugs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You would have gone and gotten three jobs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can work 80 hours a week.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've done it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can work 84, 85, 80, you can work 90 hours a week.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, I did it for my kids.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, you're lazy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could have worked three jobs for your kids.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Instead, you decided to sell methamphetamine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I was addicted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could have gotten off me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It wasn't important.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was the easy way out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're not someone with integrity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So for you to sit there and say, hey, I'm going to act like a scumbag, but now I got caught or you got caught and I don't want you to tell on me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're a guy that robs banks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You stick guns in people's faces.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You kidnap people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You torture people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You sell drugs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're not a moral, ethical person, but you want everybody else to hold up to some ethical code while you're robbing grandma.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's not right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you know, so, you know, I get the whole Omarta code, you know, and there was a time when I was, you know, delusional enough to believe that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But, you know, after you're going through it, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And after going through it multiple times, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think initially it was I needed the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, that's the first thing, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You say, oh, okay, well, I need it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if you ask most guys, oh, well, man, I needed the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You need the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I definitely needed the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But then you get $50,000 in your bank, and then you get 100, and then it's 200, and then it's half a million, and then it's a million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what the hell are you still committing fraud for?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You've got half a million or a million dollars in the bank or worth of real estate, or you're making $5,000, $10,000 a month just in rental income.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why are you still committing fraud?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I think it morphs into...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
the creativity in part for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And two, it was a chance for me to prove to everybody how smart I was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it was done out of desperation initially, and then it just turned into pure narcissistic arrogance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Look at me, look at how I can do things that nobody else can do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Look how smart I am.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just walked into Bank of America, handed them
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
seven documents that were all fraudulent and they cut me a check for $250,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, wow, I'm amazing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And guess what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're never going to get their check and they won't even know where to start to try and find the person because they're looking for a phantom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you feel great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I felt great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I used to say, I felt like James Bond.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I felt like 007.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was amazing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it did it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It feeded my need to feel important.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Even if that was a lie.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because all that success was just a lie.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, no, you were good at it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was good at it, but it was...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not like I'm Elon Musk.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know what I'm saying?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not like I'm an exceptional human being at a horrific thing, at committing fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, the question is how many people are getting hurt.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Initially, the thing is initially, nobody got hurt.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's the thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody ever lost any money directly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I didn't go and say, give me $50,000 and I ran off with your money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I wasn't doing that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that was a great justification.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But at some point, and we'll get into that, you know, I take off on the run and people do lose money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't take that money directly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And for some reason in my, you know,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
sick mind or whatever the case may be, that seems like a distinction to me that makes me feel okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is that I never said, give me $10,000 and I ran off with it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I put people in a position where I damaged the credit or damaged the title to their house and they had to go get a lawyer to fix that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so that they had to go pay a lawyer $10,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I absolutely caused that person that I said to me, you're a victim and I owe you that money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was a shitty thing to do because even at the time I was like, oh, they'll make a couple of phone calls.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It'll be fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It wasn't fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if I had really put any thought into it at all, I would have known it's going to really affect these people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And those people had done nothing wrong with the exception of trusting me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They rented me their house or they owner financed their house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They made the mistake of bumping into me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And now they owe $10,000, $20,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm sure a ton of anguish.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what happened when you were caught that first time?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got three years probation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I took the probation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What does that involve?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Initially, it was...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
was such a slap on the hand on the wrist were you allowed to still practice okay so i wasn't i had to i couldn't own the mortgage company anymore that was a good question because like you would think you know wouldn't it be great if i could keep on going um but what they said was you know you you have to forfeit your your brokerage um your broker's license and your brokerage business license and what i did was i
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I transferred my brokerage business license to a guy that essentially bought my business.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They allowed me to work as a consultant in the mortgage industry, you know, because they went, you know, they go, my lawyer goes to the judge and says, what else can he do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, and so I have a friend, his name's Dave Walker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was a CPA.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He came in and he bought my business and he paid me like $9,000 a month.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that covered my bills.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My wife and I got divorced.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's my ex-wife.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I don't know what to do, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I don't, I'm...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could have, you know, and I would say, you know, I could have like, you know, you look back and it's like, I could have claimed bankruptcy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could have moved into my parents' spare room, you know, something like that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But, you know, cause I had, I had, I lost everything in my divorce.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had huge child support payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, not that that has anything to do like with my, my ex-wife.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I absolutely signed up for that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I wanted to pay that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But it was a chunk of change.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we're talking about a couple thousand dollars a month for child support.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She got all of the apartments that we had.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We had about a million, million and a half dollars worth of apartments, which isn't a lot now, but that's probably five or six million dollars now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she got all the apartments.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she got everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So now I'm sitting here like I can't be a mortgage broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can get my $9,000, but I have to help this guy run this company, train people, do that sort of thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what I decided to do was I was going to start flipping houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Legitimately or not?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, initially I thought about doing it legitimately, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But at the same time, I was also in the middle of figuring out how to make these synthetic identities, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm making the payments every month, remember?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Two months in, three months, no credit scores, no credit scores, no credit scores.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm also saying, I'm gonna start buying houses, renovate them, sell them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the truth is we actually renovated probably one house completely.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I remember it was on 26th Street.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We renovated the house completely.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
On the outside and the inside.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, outside, inside.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Me and this guy, actually Dave, Dave Walker, the guy that bought my business.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we renovate it and it just so happens at the same time I go to pull credit one day and wow, 700 plus credit scores.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, we don't have to sell this thing at all.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like we just, we just, I can sell it and put it in this guy's name and let him refinance it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so that's what we did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We ended up, I ended up selling it to this synthetic identity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you remember the first synthetic identity, the name?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The first one was a Joel Colon.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I started getting creative because the ones after that I started naming.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had like Joel Colon and an Alan Duncan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But then I, do you remember the movie Reservoir Dogs?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I started naming the characters after guys in the Reservoir Dogs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had a James Redd, you know, I had like a Michael White, Lee Black.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had William Blue, David Silver, Brandon Green.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So then I start developing these guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now I thought, oh, forget those normal things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going with the Reservoir Dogs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I thought I was so cute too.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You think in retrospect that was a mistake?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That was so stupid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That was just, there's so many things, so many mistakes I made.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Within the fraud, there are mistakes I made, but, you know, other than just the overall committing fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But it was just like, I thought it was so cute.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then, you know, you get in front of the judge and the judge is hearing about the reservoir dogs and Mr. Green and Mr. Black, Mr. White, Mr. This, Mr. That.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's looking at me just like, you jackass.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, and, you know, what am I saying?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, yeah, I thought that was cute.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, but nothing's cute.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Plus I'm making fake banks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's the purpose of the fake banks?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, sometimes you have to have your down payment in the bank, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they want three months worth of bank statements to see that, hey, he's got his $50,000 in the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then the more properties you buy, they start to want to see what's called reserves.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They want to make sure that you can pay all your mortgage payments
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If this guy loses his job, can this guy maintain all these mortgage payments for the next six months?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so they do that and they think you're going to go, oh, no, he can't do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They go, well, then we won't lend it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, when they do that to me, I go, of course I do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Of course he's got it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let me send you over the bank statements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, you want to call the bank?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Call them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll get on there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll do the whole...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, and hold on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's the name again?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you have the account number?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hold on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You wait a little bit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got it here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't tell you the exact amount right now, but what was his balance last month?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, yep.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Exactly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Thank you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Click.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Would you do different voices or would you be... No, I've done different voices or I just have somebody else do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, Gretchen would have done it or...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or one of the brokers, Susan would have done, one of the brokers that worked for me or, you know, Kelly or Johnny Moon.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have so many guys and, you know, they just get on the phone and they do it because they're all doing something fraud and we're all working together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, hey, I need you to call this guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need you to call this guy and verify this and say, oh, I'm at the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, I'm at the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, cool.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they call back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The government would definitely say it was organized.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I would say it was, you know, you're a bunch of, you're just a bunch of guys, you know, to, you know, it's, you're joking around with everybody and you're, you're helping each other.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it's not like everybody's, you know, kicking up the Tommy, you know, so.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, and then all these new puzzles come up and you figure out which is right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You go in and you say, Hey, I've got, I've got this loan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need to get this loan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This guy's trying to buy this house and I need a loan that looks like this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Where can we go?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And by the way, they cannot, they cannot order a copy of his tax returns.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you don't want to have to sign what's called a 4506.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they're like, oh, okay, listen, so-and-so's got a program that, you know, and you go back and forth, but you have to have this much in reserves, but you got the bank, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I got the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, so you go in and you throw it out there to five or six guys and you're going to come up with an answer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
God, you know, I mean, a big part of that, the reason, is I did not want to move back in with my parents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I didn't want my father to see me struggling.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I didn't want him to...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My success, he had no idea.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My success had been the first time he'd ever really been proud of me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Does that make sense?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At which point, what was the first time you told him you did something and he was like, you could sense him being proud?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, when I became a mortgage broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When I became a mortgage broker and I went to work for the company, and we're talking about within a week, I got a client.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Three days later, I got a client.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A week later, got a client.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Two days later, got a client.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I closed four loans my first month.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mm-hmm.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my dad was like, well, how much money are you going to make?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, oh, I'm charging this much, this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got a point on the back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Boom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm thinking I'm going to walk home after taxes, like 10, 11,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Jesus, God almighty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, are you still?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, we'll see.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't start counting your chickens before that, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
two, whatever, three weeks later, four weeks later, you know, boom, I got a check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like $9,000 or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then, you know, the next month it's 12 and the next month it's 16.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, then they make me a manager and, you know, it just- He didn't know anything that was illegitimate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, he thinks, he thinks, my son, he's brilliant.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, he's great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's wonderful.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had, you know, was certainly not
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
proud of me prior to that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But my dad was athletic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was extremely bright.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, brilliant.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was a kid who had to be put into special schools, who barely graduated high school,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
who ended up going to college and getting a degree in fine arts because I was never going to be able to get a degree in business.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It wasn't going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when I graduated college, I remember with the degree in fine arts, he said, the best thing you could do with that is maybe you could draw caricatures at Disney World.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know what I'm saying?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Which wasn't a compliment, but it wasn't like, hey, you could draw...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, so yeah, he, you know, and then I turned around and I tried to go to work for State Farm Insurance, which is who he worked for.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He worked for them for like 40 something years and I failed the aptitude test.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So then I went and worked for another insurance company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was an insurance adjuster, but I couldn't keep up with the workload.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I ended up working construction.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm still barely paying my bills.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, that's basically where my dad felt like that's, that's, you know, he was polite to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, we were, we were, you know, cordial.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But yeah, I wasn't, I think he felt he deserved a better kid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm driving, I'm driving a new, I got to just pulled in in a new car and I got to, I just bought a house that was, you know, four or five blocks away from his house, from where I grew up, from where he lives, you know, lived at that time, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
six blocks away from where my sister's married to her lawyer husband.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm doing pretty good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then within three months we bought, you know, where my new wife, we buy a quadplex and then we're buying a triplex and another quadplex and a 10 unit and a duplex and another duplex and a quadplex.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it's like, what the hell's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This guy is blowing up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's going on vacation here and vacation here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, so he you know, and so when when when the FBI comes in and they indict me and I take the three years probation, like, I mean, probably the worst thing in the world, you know, other than going to prison would have been just having to just sell everything and go move in and start over and sell used cars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not that there's anything wrong with selling used cars, but I just felt like, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just didn't want to disappoint him any more than I already had.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I thought I'm going to flip houses and then I'll start maybe a development company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'll buy some vacant lots and all this and that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The problem is these houses I'm buying for $50,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If I fix them up and sell them, maybe I make $20,000, $25,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then you got to find a qualified borrower.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's very hard to find a qualified borrower.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
that wants to live in Ybor City.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Back then, I still think it's rough, but those same houses are going for $300,000 and $400,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, I'm buying houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got to get qualified borrowers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have to do all the renovations.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a nightmare, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if I...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, looking back, it's like, okay, well then you got to bite the bullet.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's just what you have to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't want to do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't want to do it, whether it was laziness or I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I just thought I'm good at this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to run.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm just going to start running a scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to figure out how to drive the prices up, buy the houses for 50, record them at 200,000, and then have these synthetic identities, buy all the properties, refinance them, pull out the cash, make six months worth of payments, let them all go into foreclosure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that really, really started working well, very well.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had one time where I had a guy, it was James Redd, the synthetic identity was James Redd, and he had bought two or three houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And there was somebody at the office who was friends of somebody who knew the title company where we were closing the loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he called her, her name was Mary, and said, Mary, this guy, James Redd, Cox is doing something shady.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
James Redd doesn't even exist.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes and looks at her last couple files.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she realizes, of course, obviously, this guy never showed up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She remembers Cox picked up the files.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's saying he doesn't exist.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she freaks out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She calls the mortgage broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mortgage broker calls me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mortgage broker calls me up and says, listen,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mary said she's not closing the next loan unless James Redd shows up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, wow, that's a tough one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, okay, so what do you want to do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you want to go to another title company?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like we're supposed to close in like three days, two, three days.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, I mean, he's going to have to show up then.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'll figure it out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, give me a couple of days.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let me figure this out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, okay, well, I don't know how that's going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He doesn't exist.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Keep in mind, at this point, I don't need IDs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't need a real ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I figured out how to kind of make a real ID, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I could make one, I could take sandpaper and sand off the information on a regular ID, and then I would print the corrected information in reverse on a piece of transparency, and I would glue it over there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you could still see the holograms and stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It actually worked pretty good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't, a cop's not going to
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not going to pass mustard with a cop, but somebody at the bank, like I was able to go in and I would open a bank account with it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, so one of the things I had done when I was closing these loans was I would go online and I would pick.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you have to pick a photo of somebody, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
To put on the driver's license, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm not making a fake ID for all these guys because I don't need a fake ID for all these guys, not with my picture on it, but I need a fake, I need a copy of an ID, but I need a picture.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Where do I get the picture?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go to Hillsborough County's arrest website and I would find people that I knew that had been arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I found a guy who,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Named Eric Tamargo, who had been arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He had like, I don't know what it was, the DUI or domestic violence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I forget what it was, but there was a picture of him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I print out the picture.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I cut it up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I paste it onto a driver's license and I make a copy of it, you know, for James Redd.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's what I'd been giving the title people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When I would close, I'd sign all the documents and I'd leave them that copy so that it looked like they made a copy of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then they would notarize all the documents, even though they'd never seen this person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They have a copy of his driver's license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everything's signed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Cox said he signed it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Notarized.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's your check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what I do is I think, let me see if I can get Eric to do this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I knew he'd been in prison before.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I call up Eric.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember one of my buddies, like, he's never going to do this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, I think he will.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think he will.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So that's how, and that's really that kind of like, you think, what do you think?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let me try.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let me call him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, that's the kind of conversations you're having.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, but really looking back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I would love to hear the opener few sentences that you have with him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got, I can tell you exactly what I said because it's burned in my mind.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He comes in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what Eric was doing at that time, he was actually working for us.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He worked for somebody else, but periodically we would, you know, we'd buy a house and we'd call him up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'd say, hey, can you...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You and your boss, can you guys come over and trim the trees of this house?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Trim all the trees, take all the crap in the yard, clean it up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They go, yeah, sure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because that's what he did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Worked for like a handyman service.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they would come and they'd clean it up and they'd do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I say, can you come over?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was like, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he comes to the office, whatever, a few hours later and he comes in the conference room.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, hey, Eric, what's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, he says, hey, you know, how's it going?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, listen, I said, I'm going to tell you something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need a favor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, okay, cool.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, what is it?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, you know, all these houses we've been having you go and clean up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, yeah, we had that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You had, you painted that one house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You did this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So here's what we've been doing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've been buying these houses for $50,000, recording them for 200.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I have these fake people buy them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I explain, I just lay it out for him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
he's like that's fucking bro that's ingenious man that's some that's smart like wow you know i was like okay so yeah i know that's great so here's the thing i said the title company who's been closing some of these loans and we have a closing in a couple days she wants this guy james red to show up and i need someone to show up as james red and he goes wow he goes
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
who are you going to get to do that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was just thinking, it's just like, you're not understanding.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not confiding in you because I need a friend, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, and I looked at, I said, well, I was thinking you might do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was like, because that's a big favor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, it is a big favor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could be in a lot of trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, well, wait a minute.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, I can't go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, you have to give these people a driver's license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You said the driver's licenses, you were using mugshots.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You said she's closed a couple of these.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's seen this guy's picture.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, she has seen his picture.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, the thing is for James Redd, I pulled the mugshot offline of you when you were arrested a couple of years ago.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he jumps up and he goes, you mother.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, oh, I said, Eric, I said, wait a minute.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, hold on, hold on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, listen, I said, I only did that because I knew if it came down to this moment, you were the only person that I knew that could pull this off, that'd have the balls to walk in and do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he sat there and he went.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, you're right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I mean, I couldn't believe he fell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Listen, this guy would beat the brakes off me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was, he's like 5'10", 5'11".
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's boxed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's a big guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, it's like I've weathered that part of the storm.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he sat there and he goes, right, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, well, I'm not doing it for free.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not doing it for nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, no, bro, of course not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, you know, what he's like, you're making a lot of money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, keep in mind, a lot of that money goes back in the property.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not like we're walking away with, you know,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think I said like tens of thousands.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're really walking away with hundreds of thousands.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not like we're walking away with a bunch of money or, you know, it's, you know, we got to put it, we got to buy more properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We got to keep it going.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We got to make the payments.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, I know, but still I could get in a lot of trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I understand, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, well, what do you want?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember thinking if he asked for more than like 10 or 15,000, like I'll just, I'll do it myself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll just change title companies and we'll go and I'll, I'll do it myself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he sat there and he went, I want $500.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, $500?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Listen, I almost started laughing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I was like, I put my hand over my mouth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, $500?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, I don't care, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get in a lot of trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, oh, well, I'm not paying you now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You got to sign first.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, oh, you know, I'll sign.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll sign.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know you're good for it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
For $500, I made a fake ID for him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes in to the place.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He signs James Redd.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
comes out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What was funny about that was when we walked into the title company, we're sitting in the lobby and Mary comes walking out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She looks at me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, Mr. Cox, I don't know why you're here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, I told Kelly, that was the broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, I told the broker that I'm not closing the loan unless James Redd shows up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And Eric stands up on cue and he goes, I'm James Redd.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, hold on a second.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She runs in the back, comes back with a file, opens it up, looks at the picture, and she's like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Give me five minutes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've got the file.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Prints up the docs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes in, signs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when we're there, she's passing out the checks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
$5,000 here, $25,000 here, $35,000 here, $7,000 here, $6,000 here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he sees all these checks and I'm like, oh, I got that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a construction company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, no, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll take care of that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll take care of that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get all the checks and I leave.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We go sit in my Audi and he sits down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, bro, there's a lot of money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A lot of that money goes back in the properties, Eric.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and he's like i still bro and i said um and i counted out 500 bucks but listen a week later we had another closing so i he comes in i said hey bro he's hey what's going on and i said uh i need you to do the the james redd thing he was yeah i've been thinking about that i did that way too cheap i said i get it man well how much do you want what do you want
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm thinking if it's, if it's more than 10 or 15, I'll do it myself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he sits there and he goes, I want a thousand dollars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go a thousand dollars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, uh, I gave him a thousand dollars and we, he did another one and, uh,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But by that point, it was like five or six.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'd done five or six with that guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And after five or six, plus the credit cards, plus all the other things, their credit scores start dropping.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If it was 700, now it's down to like 600.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at 600, you couldn't really borrow enough to make it worth it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I have other people in the wings waiting.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'd go out and I'd run up the credit cards and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and pull all the money out of the banks and close the accounts and then stop paying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he was one of the people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was one of the people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why do you think nobody said anything?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I mean, I think everybody was making money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The appraiser, at that time, I had an appraiser.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Eventually, I ordered the appraisal software, and I just started doing the appraisal myself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, why give this guy 500 bucks?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's funny.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody ever questions that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You actually have to have a license to get the appraisal software.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get an appraiser that we're working with.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get her license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I create an email address as her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it was a synthetic appraiser.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was a real person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I end up ordering the appraisal software by email.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
emailing, it was called Alamo, Alamo Appraisal Software.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I ended up emailing them as her and they go, well, we can't give you, we can't sell you the software unless we need a copy of your license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Boom, here's your license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I sent her the, I sent them the license and then we paid for it with a credit card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, you could go get like a green dot card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You go put 500 bucks on it or a thousand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The software was like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
1500 bucks or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you pick them like back then, you know, it was a long time ago.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So 1500 bucks, they mail it to us and now I've got the software.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So now I can, you know, I can do the appraisals myself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What stops you from appraising it?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not for 200,000, but even more.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's no comparable sales.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So no matter what you sent to the bank, they're going to look at it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're going to have their in-house appraiser is going to do a desktop review.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's going to go online.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's going to check to make sure all of the comparable sales are sold for what you said they sold for, are the same square footage, were built, what the pictures look like, how far they are.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's going to double check everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But he's some guy who's on salary and he does whatever, 40 or 50 of these a day or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It doesn't take him long.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so it's cheaper that way where we pay for the appraisals, the whole thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Got it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So everybody's getting paid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so at this point, I'm doing that, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm getting caught periodically.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Can you give an example?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm living in Tampa Heights, which is right next to Ybor City in Tampa, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So these are all like little suburbs of Tampa, and they're all built back in the 1920s, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
1890s, 1910s, 1920s.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I bought this eight-unit building.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I renovated it into a triplex.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I'm driving an Audi.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm dating a woman that I should not have been dating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I don't know what she was thinking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm, you know, we were going on vacations.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like everything, life's good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, but every once in a while, you know,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
like where you know where things happen you get a phone call hey this is what just happened and i one time i got a phone call from same broker kelly kelly called me up and said listen we got a problem this was i want to say this was alan duncan this was one of the first ones that i had done right we used him but uh and so he so she calls me up and says listen alan
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Duncan never made his first mortgage payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I had a friend of mine or one of my co-defendants, when we closed on that loan,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We both got checks for whatever, 40 or 50 grand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Keep in mind, we're also buying, some of this money is going into a business account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're buying property.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's not like I'm pocketing hundreds of thousands of dollars or even 20 or $30,000 on every closing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm more like I'm getting 25, 10, 20, and this guy's getting 10, and this guy's getting 15.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then we're taking...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
60 and we're putting it into the business account we're buying a bunch of vacant lots or we're building some new houses so we're trying to kind of take all this and turn it into a development company um but we still have to pay our bills so you know my buddy's got to go to he's got to go to amsterdam at least for two weeks you know right he's from belgium that's you apparently have to do that at least once a year so uh he he was so when i gave him his chat the check i said look
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're going to make the, here's the like 20 grand or 15 grand, but you got to make the payments on this thing for the next six months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was no problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she calls me up a month and a half later and says, Hey, um, Alan Duncan did not, did not make his first payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, oh my God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was actually renting the apartment downstairs for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I run downstairs and I open the door and I go, bro, I'm like, did you make Duncan's payment?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he turns around and he's like, is it due?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, oh my God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I run back, you know, I grabbed the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, he didn't make it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He didn't make it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, okay, well, here's what's happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The account executive is calling Duncan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They've got the file and it was called South Star Bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
South Star Bank has it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They reviewed it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They've already been ordering documents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're saying that this guy, there's a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's falling apart.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like the whole thing's falling.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They know something's wrong.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But they don't know exactly what.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's just something suspicious?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She didn't tell me that on the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's saying there's something wrong.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're freaking out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because the account executive didn't really know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She just got a phone call saying, hey, have you ever met this broker?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Did she meet the guy?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Who is the guy?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He hasn't paid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're calling the cell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody's answering.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And really, most of this was...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
was my buddy Rudy's fault.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's just not doing any of this stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Any of the things he's supposed to be doing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we go to the office and I call South Star Bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get the secretary and I said, look, I need to talk to whatever the guy, the big guy was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was one of them was like the president and one was like the somebody else.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Anyway, vice president.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I said, I need to talk to so-and-so, the vice president.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She says, I'm sorry, he's in a business meeting.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, listen, tell him this is Alan Duncan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you need to go tell him is Alan Duncan's on the phone right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm sure you he wants to talk to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, all right, hold on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I mean, like.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
20 seconds later, you know, speakerphone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hey, Mr. Mr. Duncan, this is so and so.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I'm here with the with our lawyer and the president of the bank and our head of fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We were just discussing you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, okay, I understand that you guys, I haven't made my first payment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, it actually came back in the mail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had the wrong address.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That was completely my fault.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I apologize.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, but I can get you a cashier's check today.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I will overnight it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hope that's going to be okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, wait, we're way past that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Way past that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, okay, um,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, what's the issue?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were like, I mean, look, to be honest, I don't think I'm talking to Alan Duncan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't think there is an Alan Duncan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, I mean, your social security number was issued a couple of years ago.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We called the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this was why we had gone with like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
SunTrust Bank, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it was a real bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it wasn't our normal bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they called, they don't have any record of you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, well, I've never been happy with South Star Bank there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It sounds like a banking error.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're like, yeah, I don't think this isn't cute.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, I don't think I'm talking to Alan Duncan right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you were- Terrified.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Terrified.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But you have to be playing it cool, I guess.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What am I going to say?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, you're talking to Matt Cox.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I can't say that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I'm just got to keep running with it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just like, okay, well, look, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, we called the DMV.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't have a list of you in their website.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We don't think you exist.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're still waiting for a phone call back from so-and-so and so-and-so.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm just like, oh, my God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, have you called DMV?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Have you called the authorities yet?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were like, no, we haven't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But once we put our file together, we will.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then the head of the fraud department, they said, oh, by the way, Mr. I forget his name, but the head of the fraud department worked for the FBI for like 10 years or something or 12 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I and I so I mean, I'm just like and by the way, the the broker is there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my buddy Rudy is there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I mean, he's pacing the room.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's in tears, crying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, okay, well, fellas, where's this headed?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Where's this going?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What are we doing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so they're kind of chuckling and joking about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember being like, thinking, what's the deal?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, it's weird.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, look, why don't I just, let me just pay you back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They said, ah, well, we'll get the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're not worried about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, you don't seem worried about the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
about getting any of them the money back like don't why don't you just let me i'll cut you a check i can get you the money back like what i owed him like 150 or something i forget exactly it was nothing like i owe you 150 000 let me cut your check for 150 000 and they were like no no you know that's uh we'll get the money back when we foreclosed on the property and that's what i was like oh they think the property is worth like 195 000 or something and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, oh, I said, I understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, do you have the appraisal in front of you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were like, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, open it up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, take a look at comp number one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's owned by a guy named, you know, Lee Black.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Comp number two, you know, is owned by, you know, whatever, David Silver, whatever the names were.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, you know, like black, silver, red.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I am all those people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, let me tell you what I've done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I tell him, just lay it out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, so you can call the FBI, but you're not going to get all your money back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or you can let me give you your money back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we can let this, we let sleeping dogs lie.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The whole thing goes away.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I apologize.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I had every intention of making all the payments.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a glitch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You caught me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, my bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so these guys are just like, oh my God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like now they're, they put me on hold.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're looking through the file.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They come back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember at some point we go back forth, back forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And finally they come back and they said, listen, you still have the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, first they come back, they threaten me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, well, when we give us to the FBI, you're... And I said, that's not true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, the money was deposited into a bank account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It has since been moved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The bank account has been closed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's been removed in cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That money is gone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You will never see that money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I will be cutting you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If I pay you back at all, it'll be from another account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so the FBI agent ends up saying he's right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
even if we caught him red-handed, the likelihood that any of these funds will ever be recouped is zero.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like there's almost no money's ever recouped.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so we end up, they put me on hold again, they come back and they go, how quickly can you get us a cashier's check?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go like that day, I go get them a cashier's check overnight, the cashier's check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They never called the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They never did anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, at that point, we actually ditched that whole that James or Alan Duncan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I remember at that point, we went to the mall, ran up all the credit cards and just threw everything away and walked away.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because it was shot.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That guy was shot.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think we borrowed, whatever, $800,000 or $900,000 in his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
With the banks, it's really, really all about the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Listen, when I go on the run, I got one where I was caught so red-handed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's insane how bad it was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And listen, that's nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got caught by Washington Mutual one time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was caught by Washington Mutual where we had done six owner-occupied duplexes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So if you say you're going to live in a house, you can get about 95% financing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But if it's an investment property, you got to put down 20%.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You get about 80% financing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A buddy of mine who was a sheriff's deputy, we had his wife buy, I'm going to say, six owner-occupied duplexes, saying she lived in every single one of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, you can't owner-occupy six dwellings.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, granted, her W-2s and pay stubs were correct, but she didn't put the down payments down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Even the down payments, we didn't put down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We actually got cash back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But months later, a lawyer from Washington Mutual ends up calling the mortgage broker and saying that they ended up with two of the owner-occupied duplexes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Washington Mutual had a credit line extended to one of the lenders who'd lent the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it actually was Washington Mutual.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it was a couple months later when they went to sell it and they packaged them together and sell them, they realized we have the same customer with two duplexes side by side, both owner occupied.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she comes in, she tells me, oh my gosh, this lawyer's on the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is what happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, oh wow, this is horrible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I end up getting on the phone with him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We have a huge, we have a conversation and I'm like, you know, he's like, look, you know, this is a big deal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We could call the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, look, who knows who was involved in this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe somebody on your side was involved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe somebody on my side.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know what my mortgage broker did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll deal with her on my own.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why don't you just let us refinance the properties?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not only did we talk him into allowing us to refinance the properties, he gave us a reduced balance of what we owed him because we couldn't borrow enough to pay him off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they took like a $20,000 hit just to refinance those properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Never called the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Never did anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was absolutely fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had a broker one time we got caught with over a million dollars in loans that he had done that were fraudulent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Pinnacle Bancorp, which was out of Chicago, the owner called me and he was like, look, your mortgage broker did this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like there was a bunch of canceled checks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They were fake canceled checks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they look like they had run through the bank for somebody's rent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But they hadn't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Does that make sense?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like you pay your rent, they deposit it, it goes to the bank and they've got all the numbers and everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I had a bunch that were blank that all you had to do was fill out your borrower's information and then you cut and pasted his name and his address at the upper left-hand corner.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You make a copy of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It looks like canceled checks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We had 24 of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, my, one of my brokers was using them for all of his files.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like even if the person really had a rental history, he didn't want to order it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He just did this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was easier.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's faster.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they catch a million dollars worth of loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They call me up and then they caught another million dollars, but they had already sold them to household bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So while I'm on the phone with the owner, his name's Gary, and we're talking, he's like, look, this is what we found.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is what happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember I said, Gary, at the end of this conversation, if you think I'm cutting you a check for a million dollars, I said, I just don't have it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't have it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this is when I own the mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, no, I'm asking you for your word that if any of these
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
come back on us.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're in Florida.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're in your area.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You'll help us get rid of the properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll foreclose.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to have to resell them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't want to be flying down there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just help us get rid of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, absolutely.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Of course.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, what are you going to do with them?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, well, they're going to be a part of a package, like a $3 million package we're selling to household bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The other ones they had caught had already been sold.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The ethical thing to do
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
is to contact household banks, say, we will buy those back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We are gonna take care of, it's not what happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
In fact, Gary flew down a couple of weeks later, took me and several of the brokers, not that broker, but several of the brokers out to dinner, had a few drinks and he openly admitted, he's like, look, I don't care if all the loans have fraud in them, as long as they don't come back on me, that's what I'm concerned about.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because there's a clawback clause for one year.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, so if they can perform for one year, I don't care.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That was it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I would say there's probably after the 2008 financial crisis, I would say it cleaned up considerably.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I would say at this point, it's just as bad as it ever was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And keep in mind, a lot of the loans that caused the problems were like, you know, they called them liar loans or, you know, no qualification, no qual loans, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No income.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, those loans, they exist again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like there are subprime companies that are doing that again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't think they call them subprime anymore.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They call them, so they got some other name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, rebranded.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, they rebranded a little bit, but it's happening all over again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, but how can you fix it?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like if...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A lot of the things they fixed, a lot of the manipulation they fixed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But if you tighten it too much, then the average person can't get a loan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the thing is, some of these loans, sometimes changing a W-2, should that person have gotten into that house?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, he shouldn't have.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He didn't qualify.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But he makes all of his payments.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's like, is it a fraudulent loan?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, but it performs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, I think that I would say that I forget what the FBI statistic was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like 20% or 30% prior to the financial crisis.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like 20 or 30% of like bank loans they were saying that contained some kind of fraud, even if it was just a lie.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, if you want to cut 30% out of the, you know, that's a ton.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's a ton.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm doing multiple scams, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's not just that I'm doing the scams with the Reservoir Dogs scams, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not just doing those, guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm also creating –
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
other identities because I've got other people that are involved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They want to do a scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So this chick I was dating,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She wanted to run a scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I set up a scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's semi-complicated, but the bottom line is she ends up stealing a real person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We steal a real person's identity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a real person's identity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We get a driver's license in her name, open up some bank accounts, go rent a piece of property in her name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I transfer the deed from the property out of the real owner's name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I transfer it into her stolen identity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We then refinance the house like three or four times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so she starts going to these different closings.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Her name is Allison and she's pretending to be a Puerto Rican woman named Rosie DePerez.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Allison has brown hair and blue eyes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Rosita Perez clearly doesn't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So Allison, when we make the ID, she dyes her hair black, curls it a little bit, and gets the pictures taken of herself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But before she goes to the first closing to get a check for like $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We've got like three of these scheduled.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She changes her hair color.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She dyes it back like a dirty blonde.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes to the first closing and she gets a check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A check for $100,000, let's say.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know what it was like.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
95 or 105, whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Roughly $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She gets a check at the closing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They give it to her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We then go to the next closing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, at the next closing, the title person...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Has her sign all the documents, but she's looking at her like, something's not right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Looks at her ID, makes a copy of the ID, looks at it and says, this doesn't look like you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, you know, you don't look Hispanic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, I'm half Hispanic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, you don't, but keep in mind, the photograph was her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's saying, this doesn't look like you, but it's her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Granted, she had the curly hair a little bit, but that's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So Allison is like, it's me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, look, I'm not going to cut you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going to give you the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to let you sign the documents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, we can get the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll let you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she goes, gets in my car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, yeah, listen, there's a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we're driving down the road.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She explains it to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I realized, you know, okay, that's done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're not going back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, what about the other closing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, no, no more closings.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, and it was probably more of a yell, screaming and yelling.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, what the hell did you do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why told you not to change your hair?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why would you change your hair?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like that when she came in like the day before and I was like, what did you do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What did you do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, I changed my hair.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's the big deal?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's still me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sure enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, and that's like, it's not that I knew.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
that that was gonna happen, but why tempt fate?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How'd you meet Alison?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was a mortgage broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I had done some fraudulent, she worked for another mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sorry, she worked for another mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She couldn't get a loan closed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The owner of that mortgage company called me and said, look, we got a loan, we need it closed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when guys would call me, I'd say, great, I'll come pick it up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll give you a $300 or $500 referral fee.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, no, it's a couple hundred thousand dollars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We want to close it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, if you then close it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I can't close it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We need a W-2 or we need this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We need that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We can't figure out how to do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go over there and typically I convince them, just give it to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not going to close.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was, you'd have to see this chick.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was gorgeous.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was gorgeous, very flirtatious, made me feel like I was thin and handsome.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So like she gets whatever she wants.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm like, okay, look, here's what you do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I explained to her, do this, do this, do this, send it here, it'll close.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we closed it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, then she starts calling me, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hey, how's it going?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We go to lunch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Next thing you know, we start sleeping together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She realizes what's happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She says, I want in on this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So now we do the closings.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're on our way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I say, look, that check's dead.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, what about the other one?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, no, no, it's all dead.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're walking away.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, that was easy for me to say, because for me,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's going through a divorce.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's broke.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, like none of this did I take into consideration at the time, by the way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
To me, it's like, nah, that's dead.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll start over again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, and she's, to her, in her mind, she was about to make, we were getting probably, that was a million dollar scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was about to end up getting, you know, whatever it was, half or one third of half a million dollars in the next week.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now she's got nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
she says, look, let's at least cash this one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I had a buddy named Travis Hayes who had been, you know, we actually were, we've been friends since high school.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We were like best friends, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Really close friends in high school.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We were still close.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Travis was running a scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This one, hers was in Clearwater.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His was in Orlando.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm all, I'm getting all over the state at this point, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's running an Orlando scam that's already yielded half a million, maybe more.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're still refinancing properties, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he's about to close on another half a million dollars worth of properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got a bank account that's open.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She says, let's give it to Travis, have him deposit it in his account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's already pulled out like $300,000 out of the account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, shouldn't be a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, no, no, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, let me call him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She calls him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think I called him and I explained the situation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's, do you think it's okay?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, no, I don't think it's okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, no, it's not a big deal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just give me the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I give him the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, he deposits the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They say they're going to hold it till it clears.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, that was kind of a thing back then.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It takes, I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
how long it took, five days, six days, whatever it was, he was supposed to go back and it would have cleared and he would have been able to start pulling money out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I call him one day because Allison's bugging me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I call him and I go, hey, where are you at?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, I'm actually on my way to Orlando.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you let Allison know I'm not getting any money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, the bank manager called and said that because the check was over $100,000, they have to witness me endorsing the back of the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or they had to see my something, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And for me to come in, I went, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, something's wrong.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Something's wrong.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't go to the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What do you think's wrong?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think the cops are waiting for you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's what I think's wrong.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, no, the cops aren't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, man, I'm in the parking lot right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just pulled in the parking lot.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's no cops.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, they're not going to be in squad cars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, then he's like, no, he said, it's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're overreacting, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'll never forget what he said.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, you're shaking like a little girl, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Calm down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm cool with the manager.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like the manager, like because you've chopped it up with the manager, he's going to let your fraudulent check go through.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he walks in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The cops are in there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They locked the door.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He just told me later, you know, they closed the door, locked it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The cops are in there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They grab him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, uh, they bring them downtown.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He didn't say anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He won't say anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, that's not true by the way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, but he's, so here's what he told me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He wouldn't say anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He actually did talk to him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, um,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
what he ends up doing, what ends up happening is we can't get in touch with him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we're calling and calling and calling.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then finally I decide, you know what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not gonna call his cell phone anymore.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm gonna call the name of the person he was, the synthetic identities number, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go and I call the synthetic identities number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I call and I say, somebody answers and I go, hey, is so-and-so there?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, and it's a gruff authoritarian voice, you know, this is law enforcement.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, no, who's this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, no, this is officer so-and-so, who's this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, oh, this is Lee Black.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, he said, he goes, how do you know so-and-so?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, oh, no, no, click.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I just hung up and I called for like a pay phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I turned around, I said, he got arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then later on that night, he showed up on the county website, you know, the arrest website showing he had been arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and the next day he calls me and he asked me to get him out of jail like hey i i you gotta go so i i have to give his brother-in-law money um
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, we get him out of jail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He actually got out- For bailing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, he got out for like nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And here's where I should have known he was cooperating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It went from like $300,000 bond down to like $10,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's a thousand bucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So right then, I didn't know it at the time, but obviously that means we're going to let him out of jail where he's cooperating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They let him out of jail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go and I get him a lawyer, a state, this was state, by the way, it wasn't federal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, um, I get him a lawyer for like $15,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I, he come, you know, he comes there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Of course he tells me, look, they asked me a bunch of questions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I told him that, you know, I, that he, you know, he made up some story about there's an, he's working with another guy, but he doesn't know the guy's name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He made up a name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like there's a whole, he has this whole kind of thing where he tells them about me, but not me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, you know, the numbers, none of the numbers led anywhere.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they all lead to cell phones that are only being used for those scams.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's a dead alley or blind alley.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, OK, OK.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I mean, I'm paying him like he's coming in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Man, I my truck's no good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need another truck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I buy him another truck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hey, man, my the electric's going to get turned off and I don't have I'm.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need $1,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Of course, here's $1,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know what I was, I'm embarrassed you had to ask.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's 1,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, a week later, you know, he needs 2,000 for this, 1,000 for this, 2,000 for this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He wants to start a tree trimming company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He needs to buy a tree trimmer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How much are those?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
5,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Of course, that's 10.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I give him another 25,000, starts like a tree trimming business, which he runs to this day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What I don't know is that, you know, the whole time he's actually working with a task force that's been put together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is state at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a state task force because there's multiple counties involved at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it wasn't hard for him to explain.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like this is this comes back to Reservoir Dogs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got a much all I had to say to the officers was, listen, you got to let me go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't do any prison time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to tell you about a much, much bigger scam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they go, OK, well, how can you prove that scam?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Pull up Hillsborough County, Hillsborough County's tax appraiser website.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
OK, look up the name James Redd.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Look, all of these were bought.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Six months ago, six months later, they're all in foreclosure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Pull up Lee Black.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All of these were bought.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Look, six months later, all of them are foreclosure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hey, pull up James, pull up Brandon Green, pull up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So all of these are going in foreclosure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it's so, it's like, you know, that what I thought was so cute, not cute.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was just stupid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so he very quickly, they put together a task force.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's working with them on the task force.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, we're still buying houses, flipping houses, doing everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Cause I'm, I believe him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I believe he's not, you know, he's saying, look, if I have to go to jail for a year or so, like, you know, and he's also paying, you know, he hasn't paid them back yet, but he, but we're saying he can pay them back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, it's like, look, if we get to the point, you know, when we get to that point, like we'll pay them back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
but we haven't paid them back yet because we have no way to show where that money came from.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We can always go to like one of his relatives and give his dad 40 grand, give his mom 20 grand, you know, that kind of stuff and start putting money that way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And all that money was taken out in cash too.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we could always show up with a chunk in cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Regardless, you know, it's still in the process.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think we're still in the process and it could be six months or a year away because it's a slow thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've already been through the process my first time when I got in trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was a year from the time that I was spoken to until I pled guilty and was sentenced.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm not concerned about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, that's happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're still flipping properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And one day...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a buddy named Steve Sutton.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Remember, the sheriff's deputy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And keep in mind, it's funny because like I've done bad loans for police officers, sheriffs, lawyers, doctors, like, you know, across everybody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These aren't like all, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Guys that, you know, these aren't all like, you know, construction workers or guys that work in your mechanics or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These are like legitimate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These are legitimate people that have credit problems or whatever the case may be.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So one day I'm sitting at work.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'd been getting phone calls for the prior week from people at title companies saying, hey, Matt, wanted to let you know we just had some subpoenas served on several of your files.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm concerned, like that had me concerned.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then a guy named Jeff Testerman starts making phone calls.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Jeff Testerman is a reporter for the St.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Petersburg Times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's calling saying,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
People saying, hey, I noticed that you sold a piece of property to Lee Black.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Have you ever met Mr. Black?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're like just hanging up on him or saying, no, I don't know what you're talking about.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not sure what that guy's name was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let me call you back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm getting phone calls from people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I know something's up with the newspaper.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now I know something's being looked at, but nobody's really talking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know that there are subpoenas being served and I'm nervous.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm very concerned.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then one day I'm in my office and the sheriff's deputy walks in, Steve Sutton, in his uniform too, which everybody always stiffened, you know, when he would walk in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he walks in, I go, Steve, I said, what's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And usually he's jolly and laughs and stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, and he says, I got to talk to you outside.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I walk outside.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's up?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, I used to date this girl in the Tampa Police Department or something, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, she showed up at my house this morning at like six o'clock in the morning.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, she said that she's been working on a task force
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, apparently one of your buddies got arrested in Orlando.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're investigating some other thing in Clearwater.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're investigating a ton of properties here in Ybor, Tampa Heights.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I mean, there's like 100 properties involved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my name came up because you've sold some properties to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
which i had and he's like so she came to me and said look your buddy cox he said and i go i was like okay he goes he said well the task force is on you and she said to stop talking to you because they're going to come arrest you in a couple days they just handed over the task force findings to the to the fbi and the fbi is going to come arrest you in a couple days and she said not to talk to you because and because you're you're going to cooperate
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and because all white collar guys cooperate so she thinks you're going to cooperate and and not to talk to you because she's afraid you're going to get me hemmed up and she said just to walk away and he was like so i thought you should know and i was like okay and he said uh what are you gonna do i said oh i'm you know i don't know i'm well first he said what what should i do and i go
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Tell them, tell them that I arranged all the loans for you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You came in, you signed the paperwork.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I filled out all the documents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You signed the paperwork.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You, you know, I arranged everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, you're not a mortgage broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't know if this is legit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like you sign, you have perfect credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You signed the paperwork.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You walked away with a check for 30,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was like, cause he did it cause he had a job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was a sheriff's deputy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm not a, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went in, I applied, I applied for a loan at a bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They said, if we can buy, you can buy the house and we'll give you $30,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So of course I'm going to do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, that's not going to happen, but he doesn't know he's.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, just tell him, yeah, tell him you'll cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, absolutely.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's, what are you going to do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, me?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'm, I'm leaving, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I can't, I can't stay here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't go to prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I was just sentenced.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm on federal probation right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like the judge isn't going to be cool with me getting popped again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I mean, he, I can't do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Can't do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'm leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Can't go to prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm adorable, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you know, I can't, I saw Shawshank Redemption.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know what's going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I can't, you know, I'm not going to defend myself against a guy who's six foot three and tatted up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, and, you know, and I can't, I'm not, I'm no benefit to a gang.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I'm not, I'm a nonviolent, you know, soft white collar criminal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was just like, I was like, yeah, I'm leaving, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I actually went home.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, actually I was able to, I started cutting checks to people, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I cut checks to Allison, to Johnny, to like everybody I could think of.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's 5,000, here's 7,000, here's 8,000, here's six, here's nine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And had them go into all these different bank accounts, pulling out cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But this is like a Thursday at four o'clock.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the next day they show up with cash, write some more checks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They go again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get about 80 grand in cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's all I can get.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I, I,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go home that night.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I start packing my bags and I was dating this, this chick named Rebecca Houck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We've been dating about a month and she shows up at my house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I hadn't returned her phone calls all day and apparently we're supposed to go out and I'd forgotten about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had bigger issues.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I'm packing a couple of duffel bags and she walks in and she's like, what's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, I'm leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Where are you going?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought we were supposed to go out at such and go do something tonight.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, I'm leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, what happened?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I tell her what happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is what happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, oh my God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like she had no idea.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, I barely knew her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I mean, she's coming over two, three times a week for a month.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I've, you know, this isn't love.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This isn't, you know, this is a booty call.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's all it is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like we're hanging out, we're having sex and that's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't even know you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She suddenly just begs to come with me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You got to bring me with you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have to this, you have to that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, what are you talking about?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you've got a son.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have your mom lives here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's just in tears and crying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she suddenly said, and this is what's so funny about it, is that she had just moved from
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Vegas to St.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Petersburg to work at the dog track, to work for a company that owned the dog track, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A casino interest or a, yeah, like a gambling company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, you don't even know why I'm here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, okay, why are you here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, I'm here because I was working for a law firm that worked for the casino company that I worked for.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got caught embezzling nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like 10 or $15,000 from my boss because she had a gambling habit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, he didn't call the police because we were sleeping together and he was afraid his wife would find out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, so instead he banished me here to St.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Pete.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My son just came to live with me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's been caught sneaking out because the father had raised him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He'd only been living with her since she got to Florida.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, I was about I was going to send him back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's failing school.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's smoking pot.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's been caught sneaking out after curfew.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, OK, I don't know any of this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, he was going back in December.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, he was going back after the school year, which would have been like May.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
OK.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, so.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Where before, five minutes earlier, I thought she was this sweet secretary, sweet, innocent secretary.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, you know, I've been married three times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I am a gambler.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've claimed bankruptcy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm sleeping with my old boss.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got like, you know, she went from this, you know, thieving adulteress, you know, and I thought these are all really beneficial to my, you know, my future plans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, and I shouldn't have at that moment, you know, I was so just,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
flipped out and concerned, and up and leaving your life and everything you know behind, that's terrifying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so now you're alone in a strange place.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I never just up and moved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And keep in mind now, I can't call home.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't, like I'm leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There are things that I feel like get you caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I've watched tons of these TV shows.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, there are certain things that get you caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, one of them is keeping in contact with anybody in your old life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm thinking that's not going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I'm not contacting anybody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm leaving and that's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That didn't really happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I kept in touch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I called my mom every once in a while.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You think?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, listen, not just that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I'm leaving my son.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a son.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I was leaving everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was just terrified of going to prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I mean, I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was just so stupid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was just arrogance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I should have stayed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I made things so much worse.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I also thought...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm smart, I can figure this out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I can change my identity, blend in, I'll be fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They do, they do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But one of the first things I did was I got plastic surgery.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What kind of plastic surgery?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've got a nose job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got what they call a mini facelift.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They go in through your back of your ears and they suck out all the fat in your neck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Does that change appearance much?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A little bit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got, I was balding.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got two hair transplants, you know, two hair grafts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, the hair in my head, this isn't my hair.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's my hair, but it's from back here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, there's, they cut it here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I appreciate it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, they re-implanted it there, you know, got liposuction, just some, you know, other stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, got my teeth done, that sort of thing, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, and I, that was kind of like my plan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll go, I'll take off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got 80 grand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll steal some more money, you know, but I, I let her come with me and we ran up all my credit cards over the next few days, packed up the car, traded in my, my Audi and got like an Audi, I don't know, was it like an A6 or like a Ford or like a big Ford or whatever it was, um, got that and, uh, drove straight to Atlanta and, um,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I wrote a letter to my parents before I left, just explaining, this is what's happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going to prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Love you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know I'm a disappointment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I take off, go to Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
we went to atlanta i already had the name of a guy named scott cugno that i'd done a loan for so i i had his his you know his uh his vital information right like i have his name date of birth social security number mother's maiden name and where he was born one day we were having a conversation
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I just slowly pried all that out of him, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I already, we'd done a loan for him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had his name, date of birth, social security number, but I need to steal his identity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need to know where he was born and his mother's maiden name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So through the course of a conversation, I just pried, you know, hey, you know, Cugno, is that, you know, what is that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is that like Irish?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is it?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, it's such and such.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's your mom's name?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, such and such.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, like I, so it was no big deal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We get to Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I make a fake ID for both of us.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But keep in mind, I don't have, like I don't have a driver's license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I do, but they're fake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I can't give this to a cop.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Can't give a driver's license that says David Freeman.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's David's residence?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Florida or is this Georgia?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, this is Florida.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But it was just a made-up name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'd gone to high school with a kid named David Freeman.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had an ID, but I can't give that to a cop.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's enough to rent a place or do something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we go...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
go to Atlanta, make an ID, set it up, make some business cards, set up a couple of websites, set up some, get an HQ, which is like a, it's a company that will, you can do virtual, you can rent offices and they'll answer your phone for like a hundred bucks a month and they'll afford them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it seems like you have an office.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They'll, you know, they give you a phone number that you call up and they say, you know,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hi, United Southern Bank, you know, and they'll answer the phone and forward messages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we get one of those, make a business card for Becky.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She rents a house from a guy named Michael Shanahan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we rent Michael Shanahan's house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like $200,000, $200,000 house in Alpharetta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I then go to Alabama.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Wait, I then order Scott Cugno's birth certificate, social security card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think I registered to vote in his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I made a lease agreement in his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think that's all I needed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I went to Alabama and got a driver's license in his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I went into DMV, give him all these documents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And which are almost all of them are real, except for the lease.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They said, sit over there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I sit over there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I sit down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Boom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
20 minutes later, I have a driver's license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's, you know, it's 20 something dollars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get the driver's license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now I'm driving this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm still driving a car that an Audi that is in the name of Matt Cox.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I parked that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I then go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
get social security to issue me a social security number in the name Scott Cugno.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I then turn around and I go and I get a loan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You put down 20, 30%.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's all these first time or first time buyers, 30% down, get like a Honda or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So now we're living in a house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We've got some furniture, bedroom furniture.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go downtown.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I pulled a title to this guy, Michael Shanahan's house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go downtown and I satisfy the loan on his house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he had two loans with Bank of America.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I create two satisfaction of loans from Bank of America.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So Michael Shanahan owns a house in the name Michael Shanahan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He has one mortgage with Bank of America and a second one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When you pay your mortgage off, the way Public Records knows it's paid off is they mail Public Records a satisfaction of mortgage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a one-page document and it's notarized.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So- You've got two of those.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I filled out two.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I created two of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just ordered, you know, you can do research.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when I went downtown-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I researched Bank of America satisfaction of mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And thousands show up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I just grab a couple of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And now I know what the basic template is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're all different, by the way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's not like you even have to be that close.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mimicked some of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had a notary stamp.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not hard to get.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You go into three different places.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know office depots and you say hey i need a notary stamp and you give them the information and you come back four day or whatever a week later and they give it to you so
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've got these notary stamps.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I notarize the satisfactions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go downtown.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I file them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Boom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The mortgages are gone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Keep in mind, Bank of America, he's still paying the mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't know that they've been satisfied in public records.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're not notified.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So those are gone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But it takes about a month or two for it to show up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Atlanta was that far behind.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think it was Fulton County.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They were just way behind.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we just kind of have to
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
dick around for a while.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we're going on little vacations.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to new Orleans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to different places.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, as Scott Cugno driving a car, Scott Cugno, we open up several bank accounts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We have multiple bank accounts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then, um, we ended up going to Vegas and we don't get, we do go to Vegas, but what happened was we're driving around.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember thinking, telling her, I was like, you know, this is a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We have to get real IDs, real driver's licenses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, this is real, but this is a real person too.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he may stumble across it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so what I did was I started running ads in magazines saying home loans available, good credit, bad credit, no problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Call now, government loans, government, VA, FHA, call this number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So people start calling.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm getting their information.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of the guys I got was Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I remember.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Poor Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I actually legally changed his name to Michael Johnson at one point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But at this point, it was just Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I don't...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I wanted to see, you know, I'm bored.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to see what the process is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How much does it cost?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is this possible?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let me see if I can change this guy's name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was $1,500.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I changed it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I have a driver's license in his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I am him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he did show up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He showed up at the lawyer's office.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm living in the house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we're driving along one day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm saying, we gotta get real.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like these people that are calling like that, one guy, I get his information, but during the course of taking the application and I'm asking like these government survey questions at the very end, there's like 20 questions and I'm rambling them off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at some point he was like – he volunteered.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I never even asked anybody about criminal history.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he just – he ended up saying something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I do have a felony.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Does that matter?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean he was like – I mean it was a DUI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've had a couple DUIs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I got my license back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that was part of the reason he had bad credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was like –
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, no, it doesn't matter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't worry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm thinking, you're not getting along.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So this is, I'm just taking your, I'm just stealing from you, stealing your information.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get all this information.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm gathering it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so one of the things I said to Becky while we are sitting at this stoplight is I'm like, we got to get real people's real information.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, like, for instance, I said, what if I steal somebody's identity?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get a driver's license in his name, four states from where he lives, and he gets a DUI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could get pulled over two years later and get arrested for a DUI that he got in Florida.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, well, what do you want?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What do you what are you thinking?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Are you thinking like like criminals or are you thinking like like prisoners, like mental patients?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like and I went, I mean, I don't and I looked over and there was a homeless guy holding a sign.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went like that guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember she goes, she's the hobo.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I don't know who calls them hobos.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like the hobo.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, hold on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Pulled over to a subway, got out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She went inside to get subway.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I walk across the street, pulled out like 20 bucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, Hey bro, can I ask you some quick questions real quick?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, uh, yeah, what's up?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, here's 20 bucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, listen, um,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, when was the last time you were gainfully employed?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, ah, 10 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you have a criminal record?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, ah, I've been arrested in misdemeanors, like, you know, vagrancy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he named off some things, you know, drunk in public, whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, are you on probation?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, I can't, I can't, I can't do probation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't give us probation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They keep us for 90 days.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They release us.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like they, the judge knows I can't do, I'm not going to show up for a probation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, okay, do you have a driver's license?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, maybe.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't think so.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think it's just, like, was it DUI?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, no, I think it's just expired.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Did you have a driver's license with you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, no, I got nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, okay, well, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He told me he lived in, like, a tent in the woods.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I gave him, like, another 20 bucks, asked him a few more questions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then, oh, and I remember in the middle of it, he said, he goes, what, are you taking a survey or something?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember thinking, I kind of chuckled.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, you get a lot of surveyors out here like that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, yeah, sometimes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, really?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said people from halfway houses and social workers and stuff, they'll come out and they'll pass out stuff and they'll ask us questions and stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I thought, that's good to know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go back, I grab Becky and she's like, oh, did you give him money?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I gave him like 40 or 60 bucks or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Forget what.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like, yes, what a waste of money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That was money well spent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, that guy's perfect.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, that guy...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
is he's got everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He has no way to be contacted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He has no documentation on him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, he's not gonna drive a car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's not gonna get a DUI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He has an expired license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just have to get his license reinstated and I can be him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I went home, I typed up a, what I called a federal statistical survey form.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I made a little thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I went online.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I'm always filling out federal documents as a mortgage broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it looked identical.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I had like this little like the recycle symbol.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was like, you know, federal form 17.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, 17.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, and.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I print out these forms.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go buy a clipboard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I make a little Salvation Army ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I pin it on me and I go out and I start- Doing surveys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I start surveying homeless people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't judge me, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was in a bad spot.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was in a bad spot.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I see the judgment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I see the judgment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let's maintain civility here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like stay neutral.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're a real person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're just not using their real person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't have housing, all that kind of stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't file taxes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of the questions I even asked the guy, one of the last questions I said,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
do you believe that you will be gainfully employed within the next two years?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Every one of them said, no, no, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, it was like, okay, they're not even, they're not even trying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they all had alcohol problems or honestly, the few of them I talked to, like it was pretty clear.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it takes literally,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
five minutes, less than five minutes to fill out the form.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I filled it out for him, of course.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But even filling it out in that brief, just asking questions back and forth, half of them, you could tell you've got some mental illness, like something's not right with you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like these aren't guys that are gonna go out and get, are going to get jobs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're not cleaning up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they were perfect for my purposes, as horrible as I know that sounds.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So- Do you feel bad about this little, small tangent?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like dealing with mental illness, dealing with drug addiction, all that kind of stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, being in prison and then the people that are in prison that are going to be homeless or have been homeless or the mental illness that I've dealt with in halfway houses and even doing this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know what you do with these people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't even know that you house them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can't necessarily even house them together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, they cause such problems.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I don't know what the solution is other than just kind of keeping them fed, maybe, and keep them away from...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
normal people, you know, so they don't cause crime or whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know about housing them in one area.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That seems like a mistake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like there is absolutely no good solution to that problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
None, because it's not like, Hey, if we gave you a house and we gave you job training and we gave you this, okay, you might get 5%, 10, but most of them are on the street because they've just messed up over and over and over again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they just kind of gave up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's Mark Leda is amazing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's amazing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And one of the things he had said was like, these are, he was like, these are real people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, they're stories.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, they have stories and they need, you know,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But if you also talk to Mark, he'll tell you, you can't just, you can't give him money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can't like, you can't like he's tried over every time he's reached out and tried to help these guys, put them in apartments, fed them, got them back on their feet within six months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're back on, they're back on the street.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, just, it just happens over and over and over again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I think the amount of money that would have to be dumped into correcting that problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, you can say, well, yeah, but just, you know, you should do it because it's the right thing to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know who's paying for it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They seem very happy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There you are with a clipboard taking survey.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Took a survey.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
went home, ordered their, and of course they give me everything, name, date of birth, social security number, mother's maiden name, where they were born.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Have they ever been in the armed services?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Have they ever had a passport issued?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What states have they had identification in?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Have they ever been arrested?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They've been on probation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Have they ever claimed social security disability, SSI?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I had like 17 questions and it absolutely answered everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What high school did you go to?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because high school transcripts are great for documentation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A lot of times they'll ask you for high school, you know, can you get us a copy of your high school transcripts?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, that's good now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm a big believer in overkill.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, I mean, I ordered a ton of stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If I needed three things to get a driver's license in your name, right, you know, I'd come in with like six.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because what you do is you get in front of the guy at the DMV and you kind of fumble through like, oh, I got this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What else do you need?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know exactly what you need.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Who are you afraid of?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So by the time I've gotten to Atlanta, within four or five days, the FBI raided my office.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I guess I kind of missed that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Back in Florida.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Back in Florida.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When I left and drove to Atlanta and left, remember the FBI was going to show up a few days later.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They were going to arrest me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They showed up like I left on a Sunday night or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because for some reason my stupid...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
thought i thought well they won't arrest me on the weekend like they don't work on the weekends um so they came on like a whatever it was like a tuesday or wednesday or thursday like within a few days they come in the office they raid it they're looking for me but i'm gone nobody knows where i am and uh so now i'm i'm surveying the homeless guys and i turn around and i'm ordering their documents and as their documents are showing up you know i'm i'm going to different states and getting ids
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm going to Florida.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So over the course of this whole thing, I've had 27 driver's licenses in like seven different states.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've had two dozen passports.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because if you're gonna get the driver's license in the guy's name, you might as well get, or an ID even, you might as well get a passport.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because a passport's not difficult to get.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't fingerprint you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All they're doing is saying, this is your ID and were you born here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then they run a check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if it comes back or it doesn't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And back then you could do it expedited and I'd have it in like two weeks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like now it takes like 90 days or 60 to 90 days to get one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How many identities?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I've had over 50 identities, but I've had 27...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
driver's licenses issued from state DMVs, Department of Motor Vehicles.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Legitimately.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Legitimately.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I walked into the DMV, said, hi, my name's Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I just moved here about three weeks ago, four weeks ago.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's my lease.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And here, I lost my driver's license, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I don't know what I did with it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know what happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're like, it's all right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What do you have?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you have, I need a proof of residency.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I have my lease.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need a primary.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, here's my birth certificate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I need a secondary.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's my social security card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I also registered, you know, I registered to vote.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My girlfriend made me vote immediately.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said I would need it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, yeah, it's perfect.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't even need that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
okay great stand over there pay that person they call your number 275 you know 45 minutes later you go you pay your 25 bucks you stand in front of the the screen they take a picture you got a driver's license you walk out it's still warm it's beautiful it smells like hot plastic it's amazing and so i i'm opening up different uh different bank accounts in these guys names and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and just what do you say well what are you mostly doing with identities you're opening up different bank accounts right now you're doing a credit uh starting to establish credit or not some of them like i might order um i might order uh secured credit cards so i can't get cred you know i'm building their credit like it's not helping me in any way i'm just sending out 500 to get a a capital one card or a american i'm sorry a bank of america secured credit card whatever
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm building their credits, but not all of them, only a few because I'm collect, although I'm collecting them, I'm also going to be moving soon.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm only here to get a few hundred thousand dollars and move.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need some kind of a base.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I don't want to start getting credit cards and building up a history in Atlanta in anybody's name, but I am getting driver's licenses in other states.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I've been like North Carolina, South Carolina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's the primary method of income here when you move to a place?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
South Carolina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How do you make $100,000 at this time?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, well, right now I'm living in this guy's house and I satisfied his loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The house is worth $200,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Got it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what happens is one day we go and we check public records.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Remember I told you it takes months for it to show up?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mm-hmm.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it shows up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got no mortgages on the house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So now I turn around and I make a fake ID in the name Michael Shanahan and I'm living in his house, but I have no credit, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's no credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I've got the ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've got a social security number and I order some secure credit cards in his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So if you pull that credit profile, it shows up saying he's got some credit cards, but they're only a month or two old.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I can't go to Bank of America.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I could, but I needed to get the money as quick as possible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to get out of Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at this point, by the way, there's multiple articles showing up
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
In Tampa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the St.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Petersburg Times is writing multiple articles about me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
With your face.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
With my picture.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But it's honestly, it's pre, I mean, not pre-internet, but it's post-internet, but it's in its infancy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like nobody's, it's not huge.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And honestly, it's a local newspaper in Tampa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not that big of a deal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm not concerned about that so much.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At this point, what I'm concerned about is getting a chunk of money and just moving on and kind of reestablishing ourselves in a better way where we're not living in a building that we're going to be committing fraud in with our house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
but I'm living in this place.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I make a fake ID and the name Michael Shanahan, and I call up three secured or sorry, three hard money lenders.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A hard money lender is a guy that lends his own money or other investors money on property, kind of like a bank, but he's lending his own money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he doesn't have to really meet the banking requirements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he can charge a much higher interest rate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These guys are charging 12, 13% interest, simple interest.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're only lending you a much lower percentage of the value of your home.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they're not lending you 90% of the value.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're lending you 65%, 60%.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I call three of these guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They all come out to the house at different times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And each one of them says, I'll lend you 100,000 or it's like 150,000, 150.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like they all lend roughly 150,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we schedule three separate closings.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
None of them know about the other person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what I do is I close one loan on, let's say, Monday and then one on Tuesday and then one on whatever, Wednesday or Thursday, or that may have all been the same day, to be honest, but I don't remember.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The point is I go to three separate title companies or
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
real estate attorneys and we close and I get checks for, you know, after costs and everything, the total ends up being roughly 400,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I've got 400,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Becky and I run another scam in Tallahassee, Florida, and we get like 50 grand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And plus the 80s dwindled down to close to nothing because we had gone on several vacations.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We went to like Bermuda and I think we went to Jamaica.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We actually stayed at the Ritz in Jamaica.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, she was useless.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was horrible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she just spent money all the time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what I realized too very quickly is she's bipolar.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's bipolar and she's absolutely insane.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She smokes pot all the time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was that she was the type of person that would start an argument at one o'clock in the morning and scream at the top of her lungs and get the cops called.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I can't have the police called.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't get taken downtown and fingerprinted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't have the police showing up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know who's really looking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We haven't had plastic surgery at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're still pulling money together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, Becky.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Becky's a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at some point, I actually send her to like a psychiatrist and they they give her they put her on Zoloft.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She takes it for like a month or two, and then she stops taking it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She thought she was all better.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you're not all better.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is the first few months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Three years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Three years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What happens is we get that little chunk of money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We put it deposited in these bank accounts, and we start pulling out cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
which works out fine because we got a bunch of accounts and we're pulling out little amounts, 7,000, 5,000, 8,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I would cash checks against her accounts and they would call her to verify, oh, is there someone here trying to cash a check for $9,000?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, can you verify the payee?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they go, oh yeah, that's Scott Cugno.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, okay, thank you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they cash the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, these are new accounts, so it looks odd.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But, you know, we're always, I open the account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what ends up happening is we're cashing them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember getting really frustrated because it was just taking forever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I had gone into a bank one time and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, they have banks where they cash, they actually cash like large checks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like if you go into Bank of America and you try and cash a check for $15,000 or $25,000, they probably won't do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They'll tell you, we don't have that much cash on hand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We don't this, we don't that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They have certain banks that do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they told me where one of those was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had a check for like $29,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
that had been cut on a closing for Michael Shanahan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Remember, I refinanced Michael Shanahan's and then I've got a check for 29,000 that was issued to Scott Cugno.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm sitting in the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go in there, I say, I need to cash this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, you're going to talk to the manager.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She says, go sit down over there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go sit down in the little glass cubicle.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He comes over and he says, I see you're trying to cash this check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, why don't you just deposit in your own bank?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
my bank account my bank is a credit union or something and it's in like florida like they'll hold this thing for like two weeks like i need the money now i have people i need to pay he's like well um i'm not sure and i was like well it's fine it's a it's a cashier check like it's good and he goes no it's it's good it's good as you have the money and he's like yeah we have the money he said it's just odd um hold on he goes back
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
in the back and he comes back and he says, where'd you get the check?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Cashier's check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, it was a cashier's check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was drawn off of a closing for somebody's property that I were doing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The company I work for, we're putting on an addition on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That makes sense.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Comes back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, why do you need cash?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, I I'm cashing guys checks that work for the company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like there's a lot of these guys that are like Mexican guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They give them a check, they go to a check cashing company or they get charged five, 10%.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I cashed them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, I don't under like what the checks good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like my, and he's like, yeah, we're just trying to verify some stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he went, um,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hold on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He leaves again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember my cell phone ring and I pick up the phone is Becky.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What are you doing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's taking so long?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, ah, the guy's being a jerk.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't want to give me the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, she's like, oh my God, get out of the bank, get out of the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, I can't get out of the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The guy's got my ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got my credit card, my ID and the check for 29,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like he's going to call the police if I just jump up and run.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, don't, don't call me again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll let you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It'll be fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hang up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She calls back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Same conversation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It'll be fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hang up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He comes back out and he goes, he said, I said, hey, so what's taking so long?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, we're trying to get in touch with Michael Shanahan to verify the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's not good for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I'm thinking, right, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he walks away.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The phone rings.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's Becky.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, they're trying to get a hold of Michael Shanahan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, oh my God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember thinking I shouldn't have left her the keys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's a good chance I run out of this place and she's not there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then he's calling Michael Shanahan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're saying they're trying to get in touch with Michael Shanahan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So then the phone rings.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My cell rings again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I look and it's not Becky's.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not Becky.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I pick up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, hello.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, hi, this is Kim.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is it from SunTrust Bank?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is this Michael Shanahan?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm like, yes, it is Michael Shanahan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, there's a guy here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's trying to cash a check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's very large.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Could you verify the payee?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, sure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's Scott Cugno.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I believe the amount's $29,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, that's right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Thank you very much.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I appreciate it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, hey, by the way, how'd you get my number?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is my cell number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, oh, I'm sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We called the title company and the title company gave us your phone number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I closed those loans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's my cell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's why if they'd looked in any other way, they could have gotten in touch with a real Michael Shanahan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was like, oh, okay, hang up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
As Scott.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I wait there, terrified still.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They come out about two minutes later.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The manager comes out, plus a woman.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm assuming maybe that was Kim.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She never said anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she walks out and she says, and he counts out the money twice, 29,000, 29,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I stand up and I, I mean, just like, I'm like shoving the money in my pockets.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm trying to get out of there so quick.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, hey, I'm like, okay, cool.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm thinking this whole thing is, you know, feels bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm getting up and I'm so, I'm,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm starting to walk out of the bank and he goes, he said, excuse me, Mr. Cugno?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, yes, sir.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I turn around and he goes, I'd like you to know that I feel very apprehensive about this transaction.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, really?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What is it exactly?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, I can't put my finger on it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, it'll come to you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I turn around, I just bolt right out of there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And keep in mind, a week or so later, the Secret Service shows up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Did you cash a check for $29,000?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's so funny is like that was one of the last checks we cashed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we ended up with like 400,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Was there a connection between the Secret Service and this guy?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The apprehension?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the FBI is looking for me kind of in Tampa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they've put out a fugitive warrant for me, which is how the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Marshals got involved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Marshals tracked down fugitives?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Federal fugitives they tracked down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But everybody's after you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're on every list.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right, I'm on the FBI's most wanted list.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At that point, the Secret Service got involved once I leave Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when Becky and I pack up our bags and we leave Atlanta, the Secret Service got involved because of identity theft-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So banking, identity theft, the Secret Service doesn't just do counterfeiting and protect the president.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They also protect the financial infrastructure of the United States, and they especially have jurisdiction when identity theft is involved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, that's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's their territory.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they don't-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Marshals are just fugitives.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't do any investigation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But they're all kind of working together?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Marshals are, let's say, an arm of all of the various law enforcement agencies, federal agencies, not the states.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The states have their own fugitive task forces or fugitive.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when you leave Atlanta, basically everybody's after you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody's after me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or did you sense it?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, I mean, now every day you're looking your name up every day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I'm not...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
because I'm just trying to get a bunch of money and just blend in, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Things were not as interconnected at that time as they are now, but they're starting to get interconnected.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But of course, I have no idea how much.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I barely go on the internet for anything, you know, dating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's the only thing on the internet.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I'd never been on Facebook.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At this point, Facebook isn't even out yet.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is 2006, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Still, were you trying to stay low?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I am.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not a flashy person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm not driving, you know, like I didn't go out and buy a red Lamborghini.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I'm driving, I'm driving 40, $50,000 cars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I've had some sports cars, 70, 80, you know, maybe that's $150,000 sports car now, but it's still not flashy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not like it's bright red or yellow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, these are, it's always something, you know, nondescript.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm living in areas that these cars are everywhere.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I end up going to Charlotte, North Carolina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We rent an apartment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We decide to run a scam in South Carolina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go to Columbia, South Carolina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And in between this period of time, we go to Las Vegas.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When we go to Las Vegas to drop off a bunch of money to Becky's son's father, who's taking care of her son.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We drop off some money there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We go and we start.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And while we're there, it's like, hey, there's homeless people here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you're always, you know, usually I don't feel bad telling these stories.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I got my survey forms.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go and, you know, we go out and we're taking, I'm taking surveys and I end up going up to this guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like two or three guys that are standing on like a bench or sitting on next to a bench or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I see him and I walk up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And one guy gets up and he comes over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, hey, what do you need?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, I'm taking surveys for the Salvation Army to determine where we place our next homeless facility.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the guy goes, oh, I'm not interested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they always said that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, it pays 20 bucks cash right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It'll take you five minutes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're like, $20 cash right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, yeah, show them the cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they go, okay, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What do you need?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Name, date of birth, social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when I get to criminal record,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The guy, he says, criminal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was like, yeah, I've been arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I've been arrested like three, four times for, he said, for prostitution.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, but they're like misdemeanors.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, okay, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was like, okay, well, prostitution, to me, women get charged with prostitution.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Men get charged with solicitation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went, prostitution?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, and he went, he said, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I offered to blow an undercover cop for 20 bucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, that's what I thought you were coming out here for.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, no, no, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, yeah, he said, you know, he goes, he goes, I mean, he said, I mean, a girl's got to do what a girl's got to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, and he made some comment or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I jot down the rest of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I give him 20 bucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get in my car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I leave.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We get back to North Carolina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I order all of his documents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His name was Gary Sullivan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I then go to South Carolina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When I go to South Carolina,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get a real estate agent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We drive around for a day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We look at like five or six houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I put five owner financing contracts on five different houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He writes up five contracts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All of them I'm asking for owner financing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll put down 10%.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want owner financing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Two of them end up coming back and saying, yes, we'll do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have two closings.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of them's a house that's worth like 225,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I put down 25 grand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Another one's 110,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I put down 11,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I buy these two houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I then satisfy the loans on both the houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everything seems like it's going okay, although Becky's a lunatic at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She won't take her medication.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's had so many outbursts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And by this time, we've had plastic surgery.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's gotten plastic surgery.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's gotten a boob job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's gotten liposuction.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, all kinds of stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Look way different?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like appearance changes or?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Thinner, better looking, you know, just tightened everything up, I guess.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, she was in her, she'd had a, she'd had a kid and she was 30, 33, 34.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know how she was, 20, 32, 33.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know, roughly my age.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, yeah, I thought she looked, you know, she lost like 15 pounds.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like she was not because of the surgery, but just in general, we're not we're just working out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going mountain climbing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're, you know, riding bikes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're doing, you know, there's fraud's not a full time job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, we have plenty of time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we're we're goofing off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But she's also a lunatic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's getting the cops called.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's able to go out and she's able to stay stoned 24 hours a day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's going out with friends, drinking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I never leave the house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, even to this day, I really barely ever leave the house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm very much a homebody kind of person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So like the idea that I'm able to make my living doing YouTube and I never have to leave my house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I love that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't ever go anywhere except for the gym and back home.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what happens is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've actually moved her out of my apartment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I had an apartment downtown, 30-story building.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I actually moved her into another apartment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's that much of a lunatic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We can't even be in the same place.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Multiple times I've tried to leave her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's called me up and begged me to come back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's horrible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I end up buying a couple of houses in Columbia, South Carolina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I satisfy the loans on the houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've got an ID, not a driver's license, but an ID in the name of Gary Lee Sullivan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I refinanced those houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because keep in mind, they were owner financing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But they also had mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there's something called a wraparound mortgage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So these guys did wraparound mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So let's say you buy a house for $250,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the bank lends you $200,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then you owner finance the house to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I give you $50,000 down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
but I'm not able to get a loan from the bank to pay off your mortgage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what we do is
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you do a wraparound mortgage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'll pay you your mortgage and you pay the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there is a second mortgage on the property, but it's called a rapid, it's a wrapper.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's wrapped around your first.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's legal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I wouldn't lie to you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's, so there's, these have wraparound mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you're always selling and you're good at it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go, I satisfy the loans, the owner finance loans, the wraparound mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I satisfy the loans, the original loans that these people took out on their own mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of them, by the way, you have to sign as the president of the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I sign it as C Montgomery Burns, which is the aging tycoon in the, the guy that owns a power plant in the Simpsons TV show.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I signed that and I notarize it, which I thought was cute.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I actually wanted to sign all of them cartoon characters.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And Becky was screaming her head off and wouldn't let me do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I wanted to do all the Simpsons.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But she wouldn't let me do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's screaming and hollering.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I ended up, you know, nobody knows who C Montgomery Burns is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I sign it, notarize it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All of those are satisfied.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I then go to the multiple banks and I start refinancing all these properties multiple times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm applying for these loans
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm getting the loans and I'm closing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I've got like five or six loans on this one house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The house is like 225,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think it was like 230, whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I borrow like four or five loans on that house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I borrow like $190,000 like five times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I've got like $800,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I borrow another three or 400,000 on the other house, the one, the smaller one, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it ends up being like $1.3 million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's actually like 1.5 million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was more, but what happened with that was, so keep in mind, you can only open up so many bank accounts in your name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can go to Bank of America, they'll open one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then you go to SunTrust, they'll open one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They might even ask you, did you...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
did you open another bank account today?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because every time you do it, there's an inquiry into something called check systems or AccuCheck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so then they go, so then by the time you go to the third bank, they'll say, listen, something's not right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You've got multiple inquiries.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you go to whatever mercantile bank, they might go, okay, we're going to open one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're going to need an explanation, but you're not opening more than three.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By the third one, they're going to be like, absolutely not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Something's wrong.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I've got multiple identities, but I can only open up so many banks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The other problem is that these checks, they'll only give you so much money on a refi, usually after $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They only want to let you walk away with, let's say, $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So one of the things I did was I would typically record another mortgage and have them pay that mortgage off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had to open... I opened...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
a corporation to do that so I could then turn around and go open corporate bank accounts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because now it's not going off my information, it's going off the corporation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I can open up multiple corporate bank accounts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, no, I went to a real corporate bank, corporate attorney and had him open them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I gave him whatever, I gave him like $1,500, $2,000 and he opened up a corporation for me, Gary Sullivan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I then turned around and I went and opened up multiple bank accounts in that corporation's name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How are you keeping track of all this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is it in your head or do you have good organization?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, no, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have every single identity has its own file with, you know, plastic inlays, sleeves for their passports.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's nice and organized.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's super organized.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You open this, I'm Gary now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's exactly what it is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like you kind of go over, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You sit in your car for a minute, you put it down, you walk in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, what happens is it went up to like 1.5 million and I'm pulling money out of the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then one day I got a phone call on Gary Sullivan's cell phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The guy, it's a lawyer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They call up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, hey, I'm a lawyer with Washington Mutual.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We have an issue.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, what's that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, we got a phone call from the title company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of the title companies that I was attempting to refinance one of the pieces of property with noticed that I
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They'd been sent a document that showed that I had purchased the property.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said I purchased it cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the document said I purchased it cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they got that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And there was actually a mortgage on the property.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so somehow or another, they connected it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they called Washington Mutual.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they said, look, there's an issue.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We have a fraudulent document here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was like, he said, so we went and we looked and it turns out that we pulled public records and that there is a mortgage in front of us, several mortgages in front of us.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there's like three or four mortgages in front of me, Washington Mutual.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You owe us, and it wasn't that much.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like 100 grand, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like 95 or 100.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, so there's an issue here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You've got a few mortgages in front of us, and we're supposed to be a first mortgage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we're not supposed to be two mortgages behind or three.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, okay, sounds like an error.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not a big deal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Have you contacted law enforcement?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, no, I haven't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was hoping we could rectify this some other way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, you know what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think we can.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to have my lawyer call you back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to go to his place right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Give me about two hours.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I immediately run, jump in my car, head towards South Carolina, call my corporate lawyer, tell him, look, I need to talk to you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's what's going on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I explain it to him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He doesn't really understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, this sounds pretty complicated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have my business.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Wall partner is a criminal defense attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to have, I'm going to set up a meeting right now with all of us.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get there 45 minutes later.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I walk in the door.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I sit down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, what happened?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, they said, you know, Gary, this is, this is doesn't sound right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's what do you, what happened?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, okay, so listen, bought this house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I bought it cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I then refinanced it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't buy it cash, but I told him I bought it cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I refinanced it like four or five times within a day or two of each other.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were like, how is that even possible?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, well, I went to different title companies.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I explained how I do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, Washington Mutual just found out that they're in like second position or third position.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, or I said, but they're probably, they may be in fourth position.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, they mail these things in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you never know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh my God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, that's a, what do you want to do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I want you to contact them and agree for them to not contact the authorities provided we pay them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I paid them off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, do you have the money?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I do have the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can go get the money right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He calls the lawyer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They, this is back when faxes, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they fax some documents back and forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They make, they do a couple of emails back and forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they have a conversation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I remember the lawyer started arguing because he wanted to charge me like yield spread and fees and stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, what are you talking about?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it ends up being a little over $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, that's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he's like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so he says, okay, that sounds good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so he said, okay, all you have to do is go get the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, bring it to a Washington Mutual branch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Tell them to call.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'm not going in a Washington Mutual branch, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll bring you the check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he calls him back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's not doing that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, OK, I'm not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll bring it here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You guys take care.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, no problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
OK, hang up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he turns to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, OK, well, we have a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, we still have the problem of these other mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, and he goes, OK, well, I said, they don't know anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But Gary, he said.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What if they find out?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, they find out that they're like in second and third and fourth place.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I leave town.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he went, so they both laughed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They, Gary, you can't just leave town.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They have a copy of your driver's license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They have your social security number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They have your birth certificate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, they'll find you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, you're assuming I'm Gary Sullivan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Wow, you tell them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they, listen, they looked at me and they went,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember he said, he goes, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, right, my immediate problem is getting rid of these people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, right, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go get the check, bring it back, give it to them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Never called the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, this is the close call.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have two more close calls that...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My hands sweat thinking about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I walk into Wachovia.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just opened this account two months ago.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's a new account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So whenever I would go in there, I'd say, hey, I need $7,000, $6,000, anything over $3,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They had to call to get permission, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like authorization.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's like, okay, I got to go call.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, no problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the girl walks in the back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm sitting there waiting.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All of a sudden,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A massive person reaches over my hand and grabs my wrist and somebody grabs it from the other one and they pull my hands behind my back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These are two of possibly the largest law enforcement officers I've ever seen in my entire life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're massive.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
they they handcuff me and they say you're um uh mr sullivan you're being detained we're taking you into custody and you know putting you uh we're holding you until a detective gets here who are these guys is this yes marshals or is this cops or what these are sheriff's deputies sheriff's deputy right and as they walk me in right as they walk me in the back they're calling me mr sullivan right they sit me down and by now i'm
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, the Secret Service are looking for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're calling me, well, they were calling us John and Jane Doe, but now they figured out who we were.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so now I'm on the Secret Service's most wanted list.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not like number one at that, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I probably was, but we just found out I was on that list.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's getting bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they sit me down and I'm waiting.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember thinking that the FBI was coming.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I don't really know
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At that point, I couldn't tell you the difference between everybody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then five minutes go by and, you know, I'm sitting there going, what is going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you guys have any idea what's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're like, we don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're just grunts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We just do what we're told.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So suddenly this guy walks in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's probably in his early 30s, maybe.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He walks in, gray suit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think he looks like he's FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, hey, I'm a detective with the, I want to say Richland County Police.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, whatever, sheriff's department or police department, whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, yeah, listen, we've got an issue.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Wachovia, Wachovia wants this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They want us to arrest you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said that they're saying that you've got three mortgages on your house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, is that illegal?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he looked at me and he went, you know, to be honest, I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I distinctly remember thinking, I'm walking out of here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All I have to do is convince this guy I haven't done anything wrong.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's already said he doesn't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he gets on the phone with the head of Wachovia's fraud department.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's saying, this guy is running what's called a shotgunning scam, which is absolutely right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so- What is a shotgun?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's where you close on so many loans simultaneously, they can't catch it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Anyway, they start going back and forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's on the phone and he's like, why did you close three loans?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, I, you know, why are you pulling?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, it's not illegal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a first mortgage, a second mortgage and a home equity line of credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's perfectly legal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, and you can hear the guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, it's not, they're all first mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, I read every one of those documents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not one of them said they were first mortgages and they don't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
First mortgages don't say they're first mortgages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's the placement of the mortgage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Placement of the lien that determines is their first, second or third.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's possible that I wouldn't have known it, certainly that I could have read those documents and not known.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's screaming.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I go, yeah, listen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, well, you're taking out all the cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why are you taking out all the cash?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, I mean, I don't know if this sounds, I don't know, this might be illegal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I mean, I work for a labor company, labor on demand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I pull out my business card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can call.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm like, I work for labor on demand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, we, we hire a lot of guys that like, they don't have banking out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the company pays them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then usually I'll pull out money and I'll, I'll cash their checks because they get charged like 10% of these check cashing companies.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I feel bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know the checks are good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I just deposit them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I don't think that I said, but I don't, I don't know if that's illegal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't think that's illegal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like if, if, and he's like, no, no, that's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's that's, that's a decent thing to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not, that's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he's talking to the guy and, you know, Wachovia is screaming and hollering.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, he's doing that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, he's going back and forth, back and forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we're going back and forth, back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm just derailing everything this guy says.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at one point he says, he's screaming, he's committing fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We want him arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, I don't know what to charge him with.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, you know, he's saying that
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These aren't, you know, how did you, you know, how did you, he's like, hey, look, how did you even do this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, look, I didn't do this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I came to Wachovia.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I met with a loan officer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I need a first mortgage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need to pull out like $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to start buying houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, that's right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You own another house here too, don't you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, we're putting a new roof on it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to build an addition.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're putting in a pool.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm buying one right down the street from that one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, so I'm obviously, I'm pulling out money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, so I told them I need $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They said, that's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They said they could only get me $100,000 out for something about Fannie Mae guidelines, which is true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, so then she said, I can send you to a friend of mine who's a loan officer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She can get you a second mortgage, which she did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, then I told her she could only get me $100,000 or so, $190,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, you should get an equity line of credit if you're going to be doing like, you know,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
renovating properties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she sent me to somebody and they got me an equity line of credit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I haven't committed fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I wouldn't know how to commit fraud if you told me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, what sounds more reasonable?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A guy that works for a labor company
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
ripped off a bunch of banks for over half a million dollars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, or some loan officers got together and did something illegal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, there's a problem at the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, I think you've got a problem at the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this guy goes nuts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And while he's screaming, he needs to be arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My loan officers have not done anything illegal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They wouldn't do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, look at his ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His ID is fake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His ID starts with 000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
South Carolina IDs start with 000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This guy's in California.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He has no idea.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when he says that, the detective looks at my ID and he goes, listen, he said, this is a real ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I ran this guy through NCIC.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, this is Gary Sullivan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I looked at him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, now I'm not Gary Sullivan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, come on, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What are we doing here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, I know, Gary.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, I'm going to take him downtown.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to talk to my whatever, lieutenant, whoever, captain, and I'm going to fill out a police report and I'll let you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he hangs up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They've taken the handcuffs off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I stand up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
as we're walking out with the detectives, as we're all kind of walking out, he goes, hey, you have an ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you have a driver's license?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, I do, but it's in like Nevada.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, oh, that's right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, you're from Vegas.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he looks at the two deputies and they all kind of grin.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think he ran me through NCIC.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
which means he ran a statewide criminal database, which means he thinks I've been arrested three times for prostitution in Vegas.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Ah, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I listen, I'm humiliated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was just like, and the grin told me, and I was just like, oh man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so one of the cops goes, here, give me the ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Takes the ID, he goes, I'll check and see.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because I have to follow him back in my car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he goes, and by the way, my car is in the name Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So Michael Eckert, he doesn't have a photograph of Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because you can't pull up photographs from other states.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he doesn't have a photograph, but he knows that's not my car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he asked me, whose car are you driving?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, oh, that's my boss, Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, that's my boss.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, oh, Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, yeah, exactly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, and I'm like, oh my God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm thinking he knows Michael Eckert, knows it's registered in North Carolina, knows the address, which is where I was currently living.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The police officer or the, I'm sorry, deputy grabs the ID, walks outside, comes back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have no idea if this homeless guy has a driver's license in Nevada.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He had nothing on him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He comes back and he goes, does he have a valid license?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, yeah, it's valid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he hands it to him or he hands me the ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, he said, he goes, it's valid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he looked at me, he goes, yeah, well.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, it says he's like, he says he's five foot 11.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like it was like five, 10, five, 11.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm clearly not five, 10 or five, 11.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they all look at me and I go, fellas with a good pair of shoes like that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they all go, follow us, Gary.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I follow them back to the police station.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Becky is calling me on the phone, screaming her head off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now I'd always told Becky, if I ever get arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Immediately go get me a lawyer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The lawyer will be able to get me out on bond because I'll be arrested for something stupid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said it'll be something like trying to cash a check, a fake check or use of something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said it won't be – all my IDs are real, so it won't be for a fake ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So my ID won't be in question.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And most –
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Most police departments and sheriffs at that time did not run your fingerprints through APHIS.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they didn't, cause they charge them for that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they don't typically do it unless your identity is in question.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mine wouldn't be.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a valid driver's license or a valid ID in that state.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go back, she's screaming.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, oh my God, you don't understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just checked the, I just checked the, just checked the internet, the website.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You are number one on the Secret Service's most wanted list.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, I got bigger problems right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They just held me in the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm following them right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like, get on the interstate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Go, go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I cannot go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The detective's in front of me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The cops are behind me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're escorting me to the police.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Listen, she's like, oh my God, run, run.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, look, I'm not a NASCAR driver.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm driving...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
it's a, it's a, it's a sports car, but it's not going to outrun a radio or a helicopter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I have not, that's not going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know it looks, it seems nice.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not that guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, so I was like, I can't, I said, look, you don't understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was in handcuffs 30 minutes ago.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just talked my way out of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to get out of this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I, and I said, the worst that happens is I'll be arrested as Gary Sullivan.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can get me a plea.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can get me a
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
an attorney, he can get me out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, I'm not getting you an attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not getting you out on bond.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not risking everything I've got for you because she has all the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We've got seven, $800,000 at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, oh, and by the way, she's not even in North Carolina at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's relocated to Houston, Texas, because when this scam broke, fell apart,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
we were gonna move to Texas.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we were already moving there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, there's about six or 700,000 accounts, but keep in mind, I'm getting that out in cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like there's no Bitcoin, there's no, none of that stuff exists.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So my, you know, I probably should have bought diamonds or bought gold or bought, like, I don't know any of that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All I could think of is go in slowly, be patient,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, don't drain the accounts, you know, fluctuate them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I was writing, getting cashier's checks from one account to another.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the balances were doing this, you know, they weren't just going, they were doing this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then one day, boom, they're gone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Got it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, so we got out like whatever we got, we've gotten out like six or 700,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's still like six or 700,000 in the bank, but I, I'm not going back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
i actually to be honest with you so well look i i go in so i go into the police station and what first she says if you go in the police station i'm done if you get arrested you're done i said well i better not get arrested i hang up the phone the cop's standing behind my car get out i go in the police station i walk in i fill out the police report
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He tells me, I got to talk to my captain real quick.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Can you wait?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He couldn't leave me in his cubicle.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, can you wait in the hallway?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't leave you in the, I said, no, no problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go and I wait in the hallway.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
In the hallway are a whole wall full of, on the corkboard, wanted posters, black and white, black and white, black, you know, car thief, you know, rapist, murderer, secret services, most wanted posters.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm on my faces right there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, holy Jesus.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, everything in me told me, run, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just fucking haul ash right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Your luck's run out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not that I even thought he was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There were so many.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't think he was going to see it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everything in me just said run.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The problem is if you've ever been into a police station, you're not getting out of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you understand?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's a lot of cops around.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, not just that, but they buzz you in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You get in the elevator, you have to punch in a code.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have to punch in a code to get back out of the elevator.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have to punch in a code to get into the next door.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it was...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
it's impossible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going to get in the elevator.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the cop comes back up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, hey, Gary, appreciate it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My captain said, we're good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to wait for a phone call from the... No, the district attorney called already.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're looking into it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to go ahead and let you go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go downstairs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He walks me out to my car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, look,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do me a favor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, we do have some serious questions at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like the district attorney said, there's some things up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I said, not with me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, well, just do me a favor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, don't leave town.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, bro, I own two houses here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going anywhere.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'm telling you right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, Wachovia, they fucked up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, I believe you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I believe you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or he said, whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, I hope they were right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm sure you're right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get in my car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I leave.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go to two more banks, pull out more money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But at one point I go into a bank and like two of the cashiers practically slam into each other, trying to get to the phone and I could tell something's up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, oh, no, no, no, no, something's up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get my car back out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of them even kind of runs out and looks at the tag number, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I drive, I get in the interstate, I go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go- Becky sounds like a handful.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh my God, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go all the way back to Charlotte.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I pack up my apartment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I drive all the way to Houston with my entire apartment packed up, by the way, in a U-Haul.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like the next day, the next morning, she's got people there packing it up, movers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We pack it up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I drive the U-Haul all the way to Houston.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It takes a couple of days.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I unload it into, we have some guys unload it into a storage unit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because I'm going to stay with Becky until I find my own apartment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
As we're driving around the neighborhood, super nice.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's living in like, whatever, like that 20th floor or something of some huge high rise.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Great apartment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We drive by, and I go, oh, stop the car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, I want to get out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's one of those cone things where there's flyers for the house, for a house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I jump out, and I get the flyer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, what are you doing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, well, I just want to, you know, I just look at the flyer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, I don't want to do a scam here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to live here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This place is nice.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I love it here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, right, I understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'm not going to.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, no, but I have an apartment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, oh, you just, I'm just so disgusting.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can't stand to spend even a couple of weeks with me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You just, and she goes just ballistic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's screaming at the top of her lungs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I know she's going to get me caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's never going to get me out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's already told me that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we go back to the apartment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We go upstairs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was so scared of this chick, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was so scared.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I remember I was going up in the elevator and this girl gets on, this clearly a stripper.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, drop dead, just, but wearing stripper clothes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm staring, and as soon as she got on, Becky gave me that with the face.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like this, I'm like staring in the corner and never look at the girl.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember when we get off the elevator, bing, it opens, I bolt off it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Becky Bolt's office and I off the elevator and I remember she squeals um I bet you just love to fuck that tramp and the girl as the elevator doors are closing she goes hey I thought that was funny so I go to the apartment yeah we we have a screaming match kind of
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Tell her I want to split up the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She tells me she's not going to give me split the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because she said, you can go somewhere else and do this again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You'll have a million dollars in six months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I have to live off this money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Did she threaten you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, she threatened the – it was funny, too, because the conversation back and forth, I remember saying, no, I want half.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes – and she said, I'll give you $10,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, you're out of your mind.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'm telling you right now, you come up with something reasonable.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll take all of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said – what did she say?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'll take all of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, and what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Escape in that U-Haul they're going to – she goes, the cops are going to be looking for in five minutes?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, I just remember thinking, oh, wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And keep in mind, all of my IDs, everything are in the storage unit that she has a key to.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I'm not getting those.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got an ID right now that says my name is Michael Eckert.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm driving a U-Haul van.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sounds like she has a lot of negotiation leverage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we start arguing back and forth and she says $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll give you $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'll take it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She counts it out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She counts out the $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Later when I recounted, it wasn't even $100,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like $98,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, but, you know, we've got them all marked, you know, $2,000, $5,000, $6,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, $2,000, $5,000, that's $12,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She ends up stiffing me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not my money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I take it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I end up, you know, I take it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I leave.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And as I'm leaving, she'd always called me before on the phone and begged and pleaded and cried.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I messed up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Please give me a chance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll take my medication.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought it was better.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought it was okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember walking out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I put my cell phone on the counter and just walked out, went downstairs, got in the truck and drove.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And drove, when I got to Louisiana, I stopped at Baton Rouge and got a
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, at some point I stopped and I got like, I think I got a room or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At one point I know I stopped.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you drove without a plan, essentially?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I drove back to...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
charlotte to get my car got it so i can't be driving yeah right so i stopped at baton rouge at one point and got a a cell phone you know like a burner phone like a verizon virgin mobile or something uh one of those little phones so i bought one i call a few people at home back home call my mom
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, she's in tears, crying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My dad's yelling in the background.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I call, uh.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, my dad, you know, you know, well, I hope you're happy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, your mother, every time someone mentions your name, your mother cries.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Which is funny to me, because like growing up, like he was never concerned about her crying, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it was like, since when did you care, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I just, so, I mean, my dad's like, he's an alcoholic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, he's been sober for two years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A month and a half drunk, drunken binge or drinking, sorry, drinking binge and then sober for six months and then did it again and sober, you know, just went back and forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And in and out of alcohol, you know, drug programs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But like I said, it worked for State Farm and State Farm.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was a top selling manager.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so what they would do is they put him into a 30 day program.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I mean, like a like he has to stay there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were the only ones that had that kind of control because they're like, you're going to do this and you're going to pass it or we're firing you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He made a lot of money and he made a lot of money for State Farm and he hired and trained a ton of agents and he had one of the top performing agencies.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he was worth a lot to them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I end up, what ends up happening is I'm driving through, I get that phone that I was telling you about and I call.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I call,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Talk to my mom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's, you know, she's crying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, I love you so much.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I just want to make sure you're safe.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I end up calling Susan Barker, which was one of the brokers that worked for me at the time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Call her and I say, hey, what's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, oh, Matt, you know, what's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
FBI is everywhere.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like they've been talking to everybody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They, you know, and this has been, it's like a year and a half at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, it's not, you know, they're,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They come around every once in a while.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody's gone in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody's cooperating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody's talking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody's blaming you, including her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so as we're talking, she said, look, the main FBI agent on the case, she told me if I ever spoke with you,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
to have you call her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, yeah, I'm good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she goes, her name is Candace.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she wants you to call her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, at least call her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
For God's sakes, maybe you could just turn yourself in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe you can negotiate just like a couple of years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because if they're not going to catch you, then maybe turn yourself in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe it'll help.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At least hear her out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, okay, all right, you're right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Hang up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I call Candace.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She picks up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, hey, she goes, who's this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, this is Matt Cox.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, hey, hello, Mr. Cox.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How are you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, I'm doing okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How's it going?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I understand you want to talk to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, I do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, what can I do for you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, you can turn yourself in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, well, that's not going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, what else do you need?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, I think that you should think about turning yourself in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, why?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, what am I looking at?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, well, that's not how it works.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The way it works is you turn yourself in and we take that into consideration.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, no, no, no, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, that's not good enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'm not stupid enough to turn myself in and hope for the best.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she says, well, let's talk about this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, well, what am I looking at?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, I don't really know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't, you know, really, I can't tell you that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, well, then we don't really have anything to talk about.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, well, wait a second.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, let me, hold on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let me call the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe we can work something out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she calls the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I said, okay, I'll call you back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, give me your phone number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll call you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, no, no, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'll call you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'm going to hang up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to turn the phone off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, for all I know, you're triangulating this phone call right now or something, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, oh, give me a break.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She says, you're not that important.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember thinking, who do you think you are?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you're just some little fraudster guy running around, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you're not a terrorist, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I almost...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
almost was like, okay, here's my number, which she probably already had.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I almost was like, okay, I'll wait for your call and left my phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, no, you know what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I'm going to hang up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to turn it off anyway and I'll call you back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's all right, whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I hang up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I turn off the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It turns out I found out later when I ordered the Freedom of Information Act, she actually immediately called the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Marshals and they immediately called, took the phone number and tracked back the phone and immediately had two marshals from Baton Rouge go immediately to the place where I had been.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Damn.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, listen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, they work fast.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's she's good too.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not just that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I made the initial calls sitting there in that where I went and bought the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like a gas station.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There was also like a subway station.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had ordered like a subway.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was eating a subway playing on my computer program, the phone and making phone calls.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So by the time I talked to her,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're driving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By that point, I walked and gotten into my vehicle, and I leave.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But who knows?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know if they showed up 30 minutes late.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could have hung out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, oh, I'm just going to finish my food.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Could have shown up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I call her back an hour or two later.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She says, listen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, the first time he wasn't, hadn't got back with her, then he did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then he came back, he said, seven years, he's got to turn himself in here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, okay, seven years, that's, that seems like a lot.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, seven years, and that's seven years for, for, I was, and I kept saying, is that seven years for everything?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, yeah, that's for everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, that's everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like everything that happened like in Atlanta, like in some stuff that you don't know about.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, look, what's important is you turn yourself in in Tampa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, okay, well, I'm closer to Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why wouldn't I turn myself in in Atlanta?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, look, you know, you don't want to do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't want to do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, because that would have been the Secret Service would have gotten credit if I'd walked in there, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, and I don't know anything about rivalries and how they work at that time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I do now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But so we go back and forth, back and forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I continually ask her, does that include Atlanta and everything?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at some point I realized like, oh, she's just not answering.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so finally I said, listen, you keep dodging this question.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, all I can speak for is Tampa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So if you come back to Tampa and you cooperate against everyone seven years, and she's telling me she wants me to cooperate against my ex-wife.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, I'm not going to do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, my ex-wife didn't do anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She doesn't know anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She didn't do anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's never, you know, that's not what I heard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's going on and on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, no, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, oh, wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, so that's just for.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, that's right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, all right, we're done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's no, wait, I can call the Atlanta U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, nah, lady, I wouldn't believe you if you told me water was wet.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't trust you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I hung up the phone, threw it out the window.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I end up going to Charlotte.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Drop off the U-Haul van.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Go to my.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I actually brought it back to the dealer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not like I abandoned it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I brought it back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I bring it back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go to my old apartment in downtown Charlotte.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember thinking I would be okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know by this point that they knew Michael Eckert's name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They had the address in Charlotte.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I know by this point, it's been five, six days.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I know they've tracked him back there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I figured if I could get my car, I'm fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go into the apartment complex and it, you know, it's like five, it's one of those four, five, six story apartment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, those are parking things that stack up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go into this, you know, underground, it's not underground, but whatever, this parking garage thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go in, I'm on like the third floor or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I look at my car, you know, and I get in my car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember as soon as I drove out of the parking garage, I was like, whew.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I can go ahead and pull across the street and stop at Starbucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I stop at Starbucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I walk into Starbucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I order a Starbucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm standing there waiting for the barista.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I look over and it's two people from the apartment complex staring at me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, and they're whispering and pointing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember thinking, this is like the fifth of the month.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I hadn't paid my rent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I hadn't been there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I thought- That makes sense.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe they, did they, like, I'm picturing an eviction notice or a three-day notice on my door or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then one of them bolts out the back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The woman, there's a guy and a girl.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The woman runs out the back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's standing there staring at me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get my, my, my, my venti vanilla latte.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get my little, I get my frou-frou drink.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I got my frou-frou drink.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I, I walk out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get into the car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He follows me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Get in the car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I set everything up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I put my seatbelt on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's standing there staring at me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm thinking something's wrong.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, what's up?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I check to see there's no traffic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm about to leave.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he starts screaming, he's right here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's right here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I look in the rear view mirror.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's two guys running towards the back of my car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I punch it and I take off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sounds dramatic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Wasn't that dramatic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'd already, there was no cars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I knew there was no cars already pulling out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it wasn't like a TJ hooker where I jumped over the, slid across the hood and slung, you know, they didn't catch the car and hang on the back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But, you know, I, so they're running and I, boom, hit it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Did you spill the coffee or?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, because it was one of those little things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I operate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's funny you say that because the secret service, when they talk to these guys, all the people that they spoke with said the same thing over and over again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The guy was a professional.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He never seemed upset.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He never seemed agitated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He always, he was never in a hurry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He, you know, like, but most of the time I wasn't because I, you know, it wasn't until the police got involved or the law, federal law enforcement got involved that I, I started really, you know, getting anxious.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So at that point I dry, I take off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I drive about a mile down the road.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Who are the two guys, by the way?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought it was FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I ordered the Freedom of Information Act when I got to prison at some point in the future.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Marshals.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
right so it sounds pretty dramatic to me yes marshall's running towards your car you pull i mean i mean you know but it's all right it's hard not to tell it like it's dramatic i understand but it was there's not much traffic it was okay yeah it's not like they're you know their fingers were at the back of the car they're holding on you know but it was yeah if i had waited an extra 20 seconds yeah they would have been on my car they would have been right there at the door did you consider giving up there or no
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, all I could think of was... Listen, my instinct is get out, is go, go, go, go, go, go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're already on the run.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm already in trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not like they're going to add anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Although, to be honest...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it only got worse because at that point, actually, at that point, I drive down the road.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I stop at a homeless facility.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I survey three guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm a mile down the road.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like looking back on, I think, what were you thinking?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But there were three homeless guys that were in their early 30s.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were all Caucasian.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's hard to find.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So trust me, I've looked, spent hours before track of finding these guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So that's like the, the, the, the golden thing you're looking for is white guys in their thirties.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Cause that's what I was in my thirties that I wasn't an old man like I am now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I, I survey them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I drive straight to Nashville.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Get to Nashville, drive through an area called a green Hills.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, first, when I got to Nashville, I stayed the night.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the next day, I went into, I'm going to say a UPS store.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was actually a Kinko's.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They used to be called Kinko's.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They got bought by FedEx, I feel like.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, is it FedEx?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then it was a FedEx store.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go in there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I love Kinko's.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you give them like 50 bucks or something or 20 bucks or something, they'd give you like 100 business cards.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go get a phone number, a burner phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go in there, I make up, oh, I call and get a phone number from HQ, the local HQ.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I come up with a name, Manufactured Funding Group.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've got two phone numbers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get business cards made with a name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of the guy's name that I surveyed was his actual name was Joseph Marion Carter Jr.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went by Carter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get business cards made of Joseph Carter Jr.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I then drive through Green Hills, took him like an hour to get the card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm driving through Green Hills.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm planning on going to an apartment, but I'm still, I don't have an ID.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't have anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm wondering how, what am I going to do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How am I going to get a place to stay?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to stay in a hotel.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, what am I doing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm using an ID that the cops are looking for.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
As I'm driving, trying to find this big apartment complex, there's a guy putting a sign in the front yard of like a townhouse.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because several townhouses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I, probably in his 60s, I pull in, jump out of the car, and I said, hey, is this for rent?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, yes, it is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, can I see it?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go in, check it out, come back downstairs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's perfect.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, listen, I...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I work for a company, manufactured funding group, boom, hand them thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I've been in Europe for the last, I forget what I said.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, England.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had some little town outside of London, whatever, Dexter, London for the past five years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't really have any credit, but I said, I can put down a double the security deposit or whatever you need.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's my business card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He looked at me and he looked at my car and he goes, you look like an honest young man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I'll...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll take the first month's rent and a deposit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, now, go get a lease right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Filled out a lease right then.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Gave me the keys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, nice.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, very trusting in that town.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But there must have been also something about you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're just... I mean, I don't... Got a nice car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know you're going to get a lot of comments that say white privilege, but...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think the charisma has something to do with it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I appreciate that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he gave me the keys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Listen, I ordered all of...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
all of Joseph Carter's vital information, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like all of his birth certificate, social security card, everything that night from like a Kinko's or some of the, I forget where, but from one of these places, I went online.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could go online back then, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like there wasn't wifi everywhere.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I ordered the stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It shows up a couple of days later.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I take that information.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go and I get a driver's license.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're talking about within like
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Seven or eight days, I've got a driver's license in his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get in that car, Michael Eckert's car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I drive it all the way back to Nashville.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I leave it in long-term parking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Get on a plane, fly back to Nashville, go in and buy myself a brand new car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It wasn't brand new.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was a couple of years old.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But from like CarMax, within two weeks, I am completely 100% set up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I start dating for three, four months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That gets really boring.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And- Where again?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
In Nashville, you said?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nashville.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, got it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I start dating a bunch of chicks and then I end up meeting this one girl.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By the way, are you lonely here because you're on the run?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Man, listen, I'm telling you right now, being on the run was the best part of my life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Really?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody, you know how all these guys say, it was horrible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was always so concerned and looking over my shoulder and it wasn't, I wasn't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Keep in mind, I've gotten five or six traffic tickets while on the run.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went to traffic school as someone else.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got so many traffic tickets in his name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went to traffic school as him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like if I got pulled over, like I'm not concerned.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So your confidence just was over the top here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm driving a vehicle in the name of the driver's license that I have that was issued by that state, full coverage insurance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not an idiot.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not driving around a stolen car with a broken taillight and a body in the trunk.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm covered.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not concerned about the local cops.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
plus you're going to starbucks sipping your coffee and driving away from uh u.s marshall right right that was you could start believing that it's impossible to catch you that is exactly what it is it's every time i just kept getting more and more emboldened more and more cocky arrogant like they're not gonna catch i'm too good you know which is great until they catch you and so
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I meet a girl named Amanda Gardner.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, what I end up doing is... Keep in mind, I've only got $100,000 or so.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go and I start buying houses in the area, in this area called JC Napier.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's just close to downtown.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I buy these houses and I start, I buy them for like 60, 70,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I record the sales at 210, 190, 2205, that sort of thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Same thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I refinance the house as I start pulling out money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I meet this girl, Amanda Gardner.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She, we hit it off within a few months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's moved in to, we move into a house in that area.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I renovate a house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We move in there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I borrow three and a half million dollars and I'm buying houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now I'm buying houses, recording the value.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I started all over, you know, I borrow like whatever, three and a half million dollars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I meet Amanda.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We move in together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're, we're, we're buying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you tell her?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you tell her about you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She kind of, you know, what she knew was that, you know, it's, it's,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's odd, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have no photographs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everything I own is brand new.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, you don't, there's nothing in this house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's more than four months old.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So six months old, you have no photographs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have no internet presence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have no, you know, it's every stick of clothing is brand new.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't have old pairs of jeans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you tell their stories about the past of any, is there a fabricated?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Initially, there was a fabricated version that I owned a mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My typical story was like I owned a mortgage company and I got bought out by a household bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Started doing very well.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got bought out by a household bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a non-compete clause.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got, you know, I ended up with like half a million dollars after paying off all my bills and just decided to kind of travel around the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And now I'm here and I'm going to start renovating houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But that, you know, you don't call home.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody calls you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Your family doesn't call you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You tell stories about your mom, your dad, your brother, your sister, friends.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know any of these friends.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Never seen any of these friends.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They never call you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They never, you know, it's just like, it's like, ah, shit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So at some point I basically just said to her, look,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm, listen, at one point I had to have a check cut.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I refinanced the house, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I had like, I want to say, I'm going to say something like, it might've been 30,000, but let's say 20,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had a $20,000 check cut to Amanda Gardner.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because you have to have these checks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can't have them cut to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I would say, hey, there's a second mortgage on there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'd provide a second mortgage or I'd provide, you know, I'd provide different things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I knew, I need names of people to cut these things to.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had a check cut for whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I remember we're at dinner one night.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is before she really knows who I am.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, hey, I said, oh, and she goes, oh, did you have to refinance?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, how'd that thing go?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're refinancing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went, oh, thank God you said that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Boom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I need you to deposit this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Get a check for 20,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
um, I can, I can, I can go tomorrow and I can deposit it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I, um, and I'm like, no, no, I'm like, look, it's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just deposit it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I can get, as soon as it clears, I'll, I'll get you a cashier's check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, I was like, no, just deposit it and keep it in your bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's like, what is going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so we have this conversation and I tell her, look,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
People are looking for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Who?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Law enforcement.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Which ones?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, she's like, that doesn't even wait for what I go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mostly bank fraud.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, well, how are they not finding you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, everybody, you know, people know you, like, you know, your general contractor, which I met four months before.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This guy, six months before, two months before, you know, she's like, so-and-so, so-and-so, so-and-so.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, right, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I said, well, she's like, I mean, they've got your name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They've got your, I go, well, that's identity theft.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like, what do you mean?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, my name's not, you know, my name's not, it's not Joseph Carter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what is your, what is your name?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, look, you know, it's, it's, you don't need, don't even worry about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is what's happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is where I'm at.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this has been months into the relationship.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, this is where, oops, I'd say maybe a month or two in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But, you know, she was just too inquisitive.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, oh, I know what it was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She found like $40,000 in cash in my freezer one night.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That was another thing that happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She went to get a Popsicle and she opened up the flip to get a Popsicle and she opened the wrong one and it was all cash, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like, like, you know, I had the other day, you know, in this conversation, the other day I opened up the popsicle box and there's cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I kind of explain it, but I had a feeling she's not going to, she's going to be okay with this, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she was okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was okay with it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was like... And I told her, I said, look, if you start digging, if you find out my name, I'll leave.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's certain things that catch you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Staying in contact with people that you know, that's how you get caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Going back to see people, that's how you get caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Telling people who you are, that's how you get caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, so...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm Joseph Carter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everything's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And keep in mind too, this girl, oh, your car's broken or your car's not doing well?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Take it and trade it in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll go get you another car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll go get you an Infiniti FX or whatever, a $55,000, $60,000 vehicle.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's driving...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
the equivalent of a beat up old Nova.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I mean, it's, you want to go on vacation?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll go on vacation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You want to do this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You want to do that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, we're buying houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're renovating houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're building brand new houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're buying lots.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like she's like in the middle of this, like, holy Jesus, there's hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank, in our bank account, her bank account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I open up a corporation in her name.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's opening a bank account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's got web, there's websites.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's, it's a lot.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And while this is happening, we start seeing a friend of hers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So this other girl comes in the picture.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Her name's Trina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And Trina is semi-lesbian.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is this like a sexual thing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or actual relationship?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, it's more like she's coming over a couple times a week.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, we've got a ton going on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How do you put this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So while this is happening, I end up coming out in like several magazines.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm thinking this whole thing's dying down, but it's not dying down because now I just got caught and handcuffed in a bank, walked out of the police station, outran marshals.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Although that part, the marshal thing was never in the papers, but-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The getting caught and handcuffed in the bank, when that hit the papers, that's everywhere, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's huge.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Suddenly, Chicago Tribune's running a series, The Fugitives.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm in Bloomberg Businessweek.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They run an article called Sharks in the Housing Pool.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then you've got Fortune Magazine comes out with a thing because by now, guess what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Becky's been caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, Becky.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is she in Houston or whatever?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
In Houston, got caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And did she?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But gangster, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like the way she, here's the thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She told on me immediately.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, she did?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She did the right thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So here's what's funny about that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She told, she said everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, here's what, when I say gangster, when she gets caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
they come in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's in the middle of beauty school.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's paid for beauty school.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's going through beauty school.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's going to open like a salon or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's in there cutting hair in a class, you know, on a mannequin.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And all of a sudden, like five or six secret service agents come in, guns drawn, screaming, get on the ground, get on the ground.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, everybody dropped the ground.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, I'm sitting there with scissors going.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, they grab her, they handcuff her, they bring her in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the whole time now at that point, she was Rebecca.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, she was
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Her name was Rebecca Hickey.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She went by Becca.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's Rebecca Hickey.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's got a Texas driver's license, the whole thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're screaming at her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they put her in the car and they're driving the whole way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, the guy, the Secret Service agent told me, 45 minutes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's telling us, you're losing your job, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're losing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, he's like, I couldn't believe it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, we've got pictures of her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're like, this is you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, that's not me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Are you insane?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Look at that chubby little thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, what is she?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
would not budge till they actually put her hand on the scanner.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, okay, I'm Rebecca Houck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What do you need?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're like, where's Matt Cox?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, I have no idea.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That fucker left me like a year ago.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But she contributed to the story, to the legend that's already growing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, because she was interviewed by Fortune Magazine, and it was horrendous.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The article is horrendous.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was abusive.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's a Don Juan that forced me to fall in love with him, commit mortgage fraud, and then –
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
took all the money and left.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By the way, they found like 40 or 50 grand on her and maybe another 30 or 40 in her bank account and no other money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Where's the other money?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So anyway, and she was, by the way, she got caught.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was in communication with her family.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's talking to her mom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's when she got caught ultimately.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And her mother, through multiple conversations, one conversation being-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mom, I'm doing fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't tell you where I am exactly, but I'm in Houston, Texas.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Next one, six months later, I enrolled in beauty school.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Houston, Texas beauty school.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
How many are there?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And her mom, bipolar.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to call the Secret Service.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And honestly, she is doing the right thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what ends up happening is we end up going up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And listen, Amanda and I, we've gone on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We've gone to Greece, Italy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, Croatia, um, we're, we're, we've gone, we're going on multiple, just multiple trips.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when we just gotten back from like a 10 day cruise of the Greek Isles and.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's we get home and Amanda goes online and there's a blog about Dateline about their one of their new specials called The Thief of Hearts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Apparently, I'm the thief of hearts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm apparently going around and I'm and it's based on, you know, Rebecca's, you know, Becky's story that I'm.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
wooing women to commit fraud, stealing all the money and then leaving them to hold the bag.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, they interviewed her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're interviewing multiple people, multiple in my case.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're putting together an episode, going to be released in a month or so.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm terrified.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At this point, I've been on the run three years and I'm like, there's lots of things I could care less about.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Fortune, I don't know anybody that reads Fortune.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bloomberg, come on, I hang out with
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm hanging out with contractors and laborers and, you know, I'm not hanging out with these guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, local news, who cares?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, even local news channels, you know, I don't care.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Dateline, there weren't 400 channels back then.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So Dateline comes out, even if you don't see it the first time, they're gonna rerun it in three months or six months or five years, 10 years from now, they might rerun it again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My face is gonna be on it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I could be perfectly fine five years from now and one day, the barista that I go to every other day looks at Dateline and goes, oh my God, that's Mr. Johnson or that's Mr. Thomas or whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the point is, is that I was like, I got to go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't stay here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got to get out of the country.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was going to go to, well, we really started doing research and Amanda ended up saying Australia.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Australia at the time, I don't know how it is now, but at the time, if you went to Australia with like, it's like a hundred thousand dollars and a business plan,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could become a permanent resident alien.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can't vote, but you can buy property.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can open a business, but you can't get a job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they didn't require fingerprints.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there's no criminal background check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, if you wanted to be a citizen, you have to get an FBI criminal background check.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, I'm good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was like, wow, I can go there and start a business.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm going to start show up with a couple million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what we do is we start refinancing houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll start pulling out money as quick as we can.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm asking guys, laborers, guys that I work with, my general contractor, my real estate agent, hey, man, can you cash this check for six grand?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody says no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody, yeah, no problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Few guys like, yeah, man, if you give me 10%.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I'll give you 10%.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So that's happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're pulling out cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, one day Amanda gives Trina a bunch of checks and asks her to cash them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That sparks a conversation that like what it was happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She confides in by this point, by the way, Amanda knows who I am.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So by this point, she's actually came across the letter that I wrote to my parents and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
when I left Tampa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she's figured out who I am.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She tells Trina, his name's Matt Cox.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Dateline's coming out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We got to get a bunch of cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And Trina goes, okay, I'll cash the checks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what she does instead is she calls the Secret Service.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They watch my house for three days.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I come home one day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They pull the cars up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and they arrest me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, it's a little bit longer than that, but that's a short version of me getting arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I've probably skipped over a whole bunch of it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just joking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They also are the thing that make life worthwhile.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Listen, God bless Trina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She did the right thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Honestly, based on- There you go, back to the right thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I mean, based on what she saw, based on what the Secret Service told her,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the articles that she's reading, I'm a bad guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I'm a bad guy in general, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I don't deserve loyalty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't think so.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm ripping people off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's thinking that her friend is in danger.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The FBI is saying I have a weapon.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's dangerous.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got a weapon.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We believe he's armed and dangerous.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When I was in Florida, I had a concealed weapons permit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I had gotten rid of
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
both my guns when I was placed on probation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've never had one since.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've never touched a gun since.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But they used that to say, you know, they said, oh, he had a concealed weapon.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, well, then he's armed and dangerous.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like there's these little things and things they're telling her, read this article.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Look, he forces girls to fall in love with them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's what he's going to do, your friend.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she negotiated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Also, I think she got $10,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think it was just embarrassing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm ashamed that she got $10,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And said everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And told them this is where he is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His name is Joseph Carter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, he's, you know, this is where he is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They watch it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They grab me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They arrest me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They bring me downtown.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What did you feel like when you got?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't feel good, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was a bad day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was a bad day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
First of all, Casino Royale was coming out on Friday.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was the first Daniel Craig show.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
As James Bond.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the whole week I'd been telling Amanda, I'm going to go see Casino Royale.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She'd go, okay, well, on Saturday, we're going to go to the festival.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, that's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But on Friday, Casino, and she's like, right, Casino Royale.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then she's like, okay, by the way, on Thursday, I thought we could go to dinner.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But on Friday, Casino Royale.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when they put the handcuffs on, you know the first thing I thought of?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going to fucking sit to see Casino Royale.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going to get to see it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not going to see it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I saw it about five, six years later on the institution's movie channel.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it's nice.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not the same, but, um, yeah, so I, they, they bring me to Nashville.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then they transport me to all over the place.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go on, you know, uh, Conair, they fly me to Oklahoma.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Uh, they fly me to Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then I go to Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm placed in the U S Marshall's holdover.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Uh, I get assigned an attorney, go in front of the judge, uh,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
plead not guilty, uh, meet with my attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You always plead not guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, whenever you people say, can you believe that he pled not guilty?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's the first thing you, nobody walks in and pleads guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You plead not guilty while you kind of figure out what you're going to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I plead not guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's no bond.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Uh, obviously I've got, they caught me when they caught me, I had four or five passports.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So that's no good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um, they, they charged me with, uh,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bank fraud, conspiracy, commit bank fraud, wire fraud, mail fraud, passport fraud, conspiracy, aggravated identity theft, money laundering, use of a fraudulent passport.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, and there's like, there's, there's like, you know, 30 counts of this, 20 counts of this, 20, but none of that matters.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, even if you just took the, dropped all the counts to one count and stacked them, it's like 150 something years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So everything, everything they could.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's what they always say.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're looking at 150,000, you know, and your lawyers, they're like this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're not looking at that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're looking at 54 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No matter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's no matter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So my lawyer comes in and sees me one day, you know, like our first meeting.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I, she says, you know, I'm Millie, Millie Dunn.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, listen, I've looked at everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
For first, they say you're responsible for
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like 25 or 20 or 30, 25 or $26 million in loss.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, that's, I've never, that's not true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's not true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, you know, not even, I said, not even potential loss.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's just no way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, there's no way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then they come back, she comes back and she says, well, they're saying 19 million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not possible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when the FBI is saying like 40 million, they're saying 11.5 in Tampa plus 40 million for the mortgage company.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it ends up being like plus what I stole on the run.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It ends up being like 55 million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But she gets them to drop like the 40.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like that's his brokers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Drop it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're like, he's so done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It doesn't matter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They drop that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it ends up being like 15 million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then it's down to, what is the L?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They said 9.5 and I got it down to like 6 million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, which, you know, I'm good for.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what ends up happening is they've charged me with all these things and she's like, okay, you know, you're like...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can plead guilty and you can go with the sentencing guidelines, which is going to be like, she's like, I mean, it depends.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said it might be whatever, 54 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's, but if they run them, you know, concurrent or consecutive, depending on which one they do, she said it most likely it ends up being like 30 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it's like, that's not good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's not good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we kind of go back and forth, back and forth and figure out, try and figure out where I'm, what I'm looking at.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, as we go through the whole thing, we end up, she ends up with, she ends up saying, you know, she knocks off a bunch of stuff that they're saying I did, you know, enhancements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because you'll have a base level of, let's say, level eight.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, that should be maybe a few years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But then they start adding on enhancements, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Did what he do, was it sophisticated?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes, okay, three levels for sophisticated means.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Were there more than, how many victims?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Were there more than 50 victims?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes, okay, that's six more levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, did he change the jurisdiction to evade detection?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes, that's four more levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, did he, they start adding, boom, boom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when you start adding up all those levels,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
plus your criminal history.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I have a big criminal history because I was already on federal probation and I committed a new crime on federal probation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So that was another enhancement.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this, you know, this case, so I'm in like a category, category two or three.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they come back and they're saying, I forget, it's like 20, well, they don't come back right away, but she ends up saying, you're probably looking at 14 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, that's reasonable.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's reasonable.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so she's saying, so when we get the PSI back, we eventually get what's called a pre-sentence report.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're saying 26 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, they really said 32 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I argued and we got it down to 26 years and four months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's what it is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's 316 months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's how they do it in months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It doesn't sting that much, I guess, if you say months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she says to me, Millie sits down with me and she says, listen, you got to cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, because you're guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're extremely guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, you can't go to trial.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, so you need to cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, well, what do I get if I cooperate?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's the way it works is you cooperate and you hope for the best.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, are you serious?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You tell them everything, you know, and you hope for the best.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, what part of the problem is, she said, everybody in Tampa's cooperated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Rebecca has cooperated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everyone across the board is cooperators.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's nobody that hasn't cooperated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By the way, when you say cooperating, you mean they're an informant, they told, aka snitched.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They came in, they sat down with their lawyer and they said, this is what he did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He did this, he did that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They showed him documents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes, yes, yes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's my signature.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't know what that was.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everything was my fault.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They didn't do anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was all me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they've all cooperated and they haven't been charged.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They've been indicted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're all named as unnamed co-conspirators on my indictment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I've got like 12 people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, there's like probably 20 people that are involved, but there's like 12 of them that are... So I've got all these names, you know, KB, DL, CY, you know, it's like, I know who that is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I know who DW, that's Dave Walker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know who, you know, I know who these people are.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so there's just a list of them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's like 12 of them, you know, plus me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And some of them walked in and said, I'm guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just want to plead guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The girl, Allison, she walked in, said, I'm tired of waiting for you to come get me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Walked in with her lawyer and said, I just want to plead guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they sentenced her and she went to jail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She got like 36 months or 30 months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She called the prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She went to the low security.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was a female prison at the time, female camp.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Called the camp and asked for if she could come by for a tour before she went.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they went, excuse me?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, well, I'm going to be there for about two years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'd like to come in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is there like a tour I can take?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because I'd like to know where I'm going and what it's going to be like, how I should prepare.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they just started laughing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They said, there's no tour, sweetie.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll give you the tour when you get here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You gotta love that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I mean.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought I was, I didn't think, I thought I wasn't prepared.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, there's no door.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So Becky, Becky got 70 months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But when I got caught and when I was sentenced, they reduced it to like 30 or no, 40 to 40 months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They reduced it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because she cooperated that term.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Do you want to say snitch?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I should say first on the cooperation subject, my lawyer wanted me to cooperate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And by this point I realized like, you don't have a choice, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, that's not true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could have been a gangster.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What does it mean to be a gangster in this case?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like a standup guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could have said, I'll just take it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Give me 54 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Go fuck yourself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going to snitch on nobody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I know you look at me and you think tough guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not a tough guy at all.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not doing 50 some odd years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm not doing it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't want to do 30 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I was hoping for, you know, I knew it wasn't possible, but I would have satisfied for another slap on the hand like I got the first time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I really thought I deserved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Honestly, when my lawyer asked me, what do you really think you deserve?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I thought I deserve 10 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I deserve 10 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But so she said, look, they want to talk to you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the FBI, well, first the Secret Service flies in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They come in and.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They interview me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Who's more terrifying, FBI, Secret Service?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, the Secret Service was so overwhelmingly professional.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The FBI, and really only one of the FBI agents that interviewed me, I don't know how he's an agent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was just ineffective, incompetent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, so it's a competence issue.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The other one was Candace.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, you met her eventually.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Of course I did.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Of course.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's 5'11", wearing three-inch heels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's a giant and in impeccable shape, attractive, one of the angriest human beings I've ever met.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And every FBI agent that I've met since then that knows her and I mention, they all say, what did you think of her?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, what, why?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, kind of aggressive.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They go, yeah, yeah, she's a bulldog.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, all of them are like, yeah, yeah, she's something else.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Secret Service is a little bit more like professional.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Very, you know, it's their job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like, hey, this is just my job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're polite, professional, you know, that's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's just, this is just a, this is my nine to five.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, but they come and they fly in and they meet with me for three, four days.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of the funny things is that when I first sat down with them,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
one guy's name was Dan, like Brozenskowski or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he sits down, he says, look, before we get started, we need to talk about something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, well, he said, we know you've hidden money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, we know you've got money hidden.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I don't have any money hidden.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What are you talking about?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my lawyer's like, do we need to talk?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, no, no, no, I don't have nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I gave you everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I gave you all the accounts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You got everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you're looking at an obstruction charge at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, I don't have anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, we know you have money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We know you have money in different IDs, different identities, names.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, what are you talking about?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he pulls out a bank statement and he slaps it on the counter and he goes, you've got money in Southern Exchange Bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You've got $190,000 in Southern Exchange Bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I look at it and I went...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was in the name Walter Holcomb.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, did you call the bank?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, yeah, we called the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went, okay, did anybody call you back?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they go, he said, well, no, we've left several messages.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, did you go to the bank website?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, yeah, I went to the website.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, what'd you think?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he went, what do you mean?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was a bank website.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, yeah, but it was professional, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like a professional website.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, it's a bank website.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, yeah, but it was well done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, oh, God.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, yeah, convincing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, it's all an illusion.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, the bank doesn't exist.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a fake bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I made the bank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Made it when I was in, not even in Tampa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think I got into Nashville when I made it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, yeah, it's in a loo.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The bank statements, he's like, they're color bank statements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, yeah, well, no shit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, there's no, I said, a matter of fact, I said, who did you leave a, I haven't paid for the service in months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he turned around and he called it and it went, you know, boo.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it was disconnected.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, how do you not know that's a bank?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, it turns out there was a Southern Exchange Bank and I'd use their bank routing number.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so, I mean, I always thought that was funny that they, it's like, well, I remember really for a split second there, I was kind of like really embarrassed that they caught me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, I can't believe this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're the Secret Service.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Anyway, I talked to them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I, you know, there's really, as far as the Secret Service is concerned, there's just not much I can tell them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, like it was me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Becky's already told them everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Amanda's already told them everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not hard to track.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when they raided my house, they've got boxes and boxes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's laid out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We still, it took forever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I still went through everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I explained how I got the driver's licenses, how I made the bank statements, how I made the birth certificates, how I...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
the whole social engineering of figuring out how to what these little loopholes are it's like seven days total with these guys so you mean like in like questions yeah it was like they questioned me for all day and then they take me back to the marshall's holdover and then the next morning i wake up and they chain me up again and bring me back what's that like what's that process of questioning like are they i mean you're somebody who is exceptionally good at conversation
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, the problem is they're not there to shoot the shit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You see what I'm saying?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They have an agenda.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But they have to use their words to get information out of you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Aren't they trying to manipulate you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not holding anything back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not like I'm sparing Jim.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Trust me, Jim's got to go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, you're looking at...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're there 20 some odd years, but Jim can do five.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bill can do some.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Tom can do six.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't even like Jerry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Jerry can do 20.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm ready to cut everybody's throat.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But you're not guaranteed that you're getting anything for that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And all my time, I've seen one time where an inmate got a guarantee to have his sentence reduced.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was signed by the head of the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was Robert Mueller gave it to him to have a conversation with him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's the only time I've ever seen that document.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, so a lot of days with both the Secret Service and the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So FBI was, Candace was irritated, didn't like me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember when she took the cuffs off, I was like rubbing my wrist.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, your wrist hurt?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, get used to it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, she was just an asshole.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Just all around.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not that she didn't have a right to be, but everybody else was professional.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, uh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this, so we, uh, we, you know, we, we, we talked for three or four days with the, uh, FBI and, you know, they asked a ton of questions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They brought a ton of, they brought documents, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's like, Hey, who signed this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it's like, Oh, that's not, that's not my signature.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's so-and-so signature.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Or I signed that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I signed that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I signed that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's so-and-so where this check, who is this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, that's so-and-so, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
looking over everything one of the things they wanted to know about was which i never talked about because it seems so minor is i bribed the politician i got him elected because we got him elected to the uh city council so he could vote to get our our the lots we bought like 100 vacant lots in ybor city and i wanted them all they were all single family we wanted them zoned multi-family
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so we bribed him and got him elected.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That doesn't seem minor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not as sexy as the rest of the stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's a whole nother thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I mean, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what happened is when they got all of the bank accounts, they see all these checks going to Kevin White.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so they're like, why did James Red donate $500 to Kevin White?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why did Brandon Green donate?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why did Alan Duncan donate?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had explained to him, oh, yeah, well, we wanted him to be city councilman.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we gave him a bunch of money so he could run the ad, so he could get elected, so he could then get all of our stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But because he never did, I took off on the run before he was able to do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then he ended up getting, not long, too, too long after that, he ended up, about five, six years later, he ended up getting indicted for bribery, but not mine, on somebody else's case.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I think there's some ways that are... They're seemingly legal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The aforementioned gray area.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, that's not gray.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, this guy was... At one point, I couldn't find anybody to write $500 checks anymore, so I just gave him cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I'm just handing him $7,000, $8,000, $10,000 in cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So... But...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I think most of them have legal ways to make ungodly amounts of money for, you know, influence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, but is it legal?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, it's their politicians.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They've made it so that it's not illegal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you really sat down and explained it to someone, you know, the average person would say that that's that's not right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's oh, no, no, that's legal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
so okay so at the end of these few days um what was the sentencing like yeah i i end up uh i go to sentencing i i get my psi back and it's 32 years to life and yeah and so we argue about it uh with the prosecutor just before sentencing and they get it down to these 26 years four months
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then Millie says, listen, don't worry because I'm trying to backpedal at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, I might as well go to trial.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If I lost at trial, I couldn't get more than 30.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, more than 32 years because you can't get life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
32 was the max.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's just a mistake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said 32 years to life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can't get life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it was like the most I can get is 32 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was like, I'll go to trial.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Might as well go to trial and see if I can get them to reduce some of these enhancements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She insists that she can get the enhancements knocked down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if you read, they actually read the enhancements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Some of the enhancements, they didn't apply to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she goes and, you know, I believed her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think she made a valid argument.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We go to sentencing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My mom's there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's crying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My dad's there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's looking at me like he's disgusted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And crowd, there's a whole bunch of reporters, like the whole place is packed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I plead guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Millie gets up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My lawyer gets up, and she argues these enhancements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And every single time, you know, the judge is like, I disagree.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, overruled.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it's like, boom, five more years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, bam, six more years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bam.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because if she had won the enhancement she argued, I would have got 14 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, keep in mind, too, prior to this, a month or two prior to this, the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
attorney had called Milley and said, look, Dateline... Dateline had already come out, by the way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Remember, I was worried about Dateline coming out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, it had come out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But they wanted to do a follow-up because it came out like a month or two after I got arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were saying, hey, we want to recut it with interviews with him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Gail McKenzie, that's the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
attorney, she wants me to do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, I'll consider that substantial assistance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, when you cooperate with the government, they consider it substantial assistance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's what they call it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I cooperate with you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's substantial assistance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She says, if he's interviewed by Dateline, we'll consider it substantial assistance.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And Millie says, you have to do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, exactly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You become a cautionary tale.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, don't let this happen to you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go and I'm interviewed by Dateline.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Keith Morris or whatever his name is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, that guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mr. Conchwarsh.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, that guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he comes and he interviews me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Becky's interviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm interviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Amanda's interviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Allison is interviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody, the Secret Service agent, I think, is interviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Prosecutor's interviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it's funny at the time I would have, I was, when I watched it, I was like, that's not true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's not true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that, and honestly, it's like 99% true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like looking back on it, you know, I'm like, you know, like my Audi TT wasn't blue.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was silver, you know, it's just stupid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But anyway, so I'm interviewed by them and they recut it and they air the video.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I, you said this was substantial assistance, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then the other thing is I was interviewed by the FBI and the Secret Service.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, my lawyer calls the prosecutor the night before sentencing and says, look, he was interviewed by Dateline and he was interviewed by the Secret Service and the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if you do that,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You said you'd reduce his sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You'd consider it substantial assistance and you would reduce his sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What are you going to ask for his sentence to be tomorrow at sentencing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, we did consider it substantial assistance and it's just not enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What do you mean?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody was arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes, but what about Dateline?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Millie, I don't know what to tell you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It just wasn't enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We considered it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We considered it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We will consider it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they did consider it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, that's like you have to really, you know, the meaning of words is so important.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to use that at some point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll consider it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll consider it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I considered it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And still feel the same.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she calls me, I'm crushed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, but look, they're still investigating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're going to make these arrests.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so when you get a sentence reduction at sentencing, it's called a 5K1.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When you get a sentence reduction after sentencing, it's called a Rule 35.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she said, we'll file a Rule 35 as soon as the arrests are made.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go to sentencing and Millie says, you're going to get 14 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to argue these enhancements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She argues the enhancements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She loses the enhancements.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not that she's not an amazing attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's an amazing attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The judge wanted to hammer me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He hammered me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, Millie was a great attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was always polite to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And by the way, to this day, we'll answer my phone call.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Most public defenders, you call them now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You call them after your sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They don't answer your call.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
great person thank you millie i didn't give her anything to work with you know it's like i'm overwhelmingly guilty it's like there's no defense so i end up getting sentenced 26 years
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
um that's a lot of years i would like to tell you that they they when they gave me the time you know that i i was stoic and i i stood there and i i took it in you know but but the truth is i cried like a baby like a small child like you've never seen anyone cry like this in your life i was just
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
how did i get 26 how what did i do to get 26 years like murderers rapists i've met guys that kidnapped guys that got 15 26 so yeah a i were you scared i mean you know does a pope wear a funny hat like of course i was scared terrified
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, you know, but I kept telling myself, ah, they're going to reduce the sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They'll reduce it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They'll reduce it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They'll reduce it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, okay, okay, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's going to be okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's going to be okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, but it wasn't okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got moved to Coleman, the Coleman complex.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
In Coleman, Florida, the Federal Correctional Coleman Complex in Coleman, Florida, which is the largest complex in the nation, federal complex in the nation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At that time, there was a camp, which was a female camp.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There was a low-security prison for men, a medium-security prison, and two penitentiaries.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I get moved to the medium.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm moved to the medium, not because like, that's where like real criminals go, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm a soft white boy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I'm no danger to anybody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I hurt someone's feelings once.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But other than that, I'm not gonna be a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But if you have more than 20 years to serve, you have to go to a medium.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So even though my security level said this guy should be in a camp, I had 20 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So if you have, you can't go to a camp till you have less than 10.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So as soon as I am given 26 years and 26 years, they knock off three, but you still have three years to get below 20.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they go to the medium.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go to the medium and their guy's getting stabbed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The very first day people are being stabbed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get locked into, you go to my cell, meet my cellie.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They scream lockdown.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Somebody got stabbed in the rec yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I remember I asked that my cellie, which I met 20 minutes earlier.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, what's, you know, he's like, Hey, we got to get in the cell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, what's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's somebody got stabbed in the yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, somebody just got killed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, nah, they just stabbed him up a little bit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I thought,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're in a place where they stabbed him up a little bit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you're not prepared for this, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You got to get out of here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So anyway, I go to the medium.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, what was the first day and night?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I already had been locked up in the county.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're county jails where they call them U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
marshal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're holdovers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But they're really county jails.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They just keep you with the federal guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm not mixed in with, like, hobos and, you know, people like that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I'm mixed in with the federal people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it already felt like a prison?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, I mean, it's a prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it's jail, but it's a prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And unless you've been locked up, you don't really know the difference.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it's a jail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Jails suck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Jails are much worse.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The whole time I was locked up in the jails waiting to be sentenced, guys were like, I just want to get sentenced and go to prison, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, why does everybody keep saying that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like prison's worse than this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I saw Shawshank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's horrible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're like, bro, prison, listen, prison, I can walk the rec yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I could go to the movie room, watch movies.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Listen, within right after count for this four o'clock count, they count everybody at four.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they are like, right after count, I'm going to go to commissary.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Somebody's going to buy me an ice cream.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to be eating an ice cream, walking on the rec yard the first day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, and I'm, you know, it's been months and months and months that I've been locked up in this county jail.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm thinking, I want to go to prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, that sounds nice.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'd love, I'd like an ice cream.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But there was a stabbing on the first day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, and, and honestly, I, I was very quickly, I was walking on the rec yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was, you know, so I was at the medium.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it's a real prison with the doors, bam, and they can open the little tray thing and feed you out of the tray.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And there's a stainless steel toilet and sink.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, they have that in the county too.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But, you know, it's exactly what you think of prison as being.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, yeah, I have a cellie and...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I'm also, they sent me to a prison where guys have, tons of guys have 30, 40, 50 years, you know, life sentences.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's gangsters there, there's murderers, there's serial killers, there's, you know, really bad guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
there's, you know, there's guys that are, you know, trying to take advantage of guys, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, like sexually?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But by the time I got there, I'd heard all the, you know, how you can get yourself in trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, how you can, like, don't go in somebody else's cell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't know the guy, you're not 100% sure, do not go in his cell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't even go near his cell.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't go into places where people can close a door behind you or they can trap you in an area.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's all these things that I've been told not to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Again, for sexual reasons.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because I'm a small guy in prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Tracked away, dude.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My fear was there to make me shave my head to make sure that the mop wig fits correctly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But there's certain things that, I always hate to say this, but this is the simplest way to say it, is that if you get stabbed in prison, you had it coming.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You did something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're not running around just stabbing people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You did something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the things that get you hurt is you argue over the TV, what channel you want to watch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You got 50, 80 guys watching one TV.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't argue about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not worth it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Borrowing things and not returning them, that's a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Running up debts, that's a big problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Gambling, gossiping.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, those are the problems, those things get you hurt.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not being polite, be respectful.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm super respectful.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was respectful.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Very quickly when I got to Coleman, there are continuing education courses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of the courses is residential real estate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The guy that was running the residential real estate didn't want to do it anymore because he was doing legal work and it just was taking too much time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he came to me and said, listen, you just got here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You got a real estate background like nobody else does.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Can you take over this class?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, sure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I looked at his curriculum.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I kind of rewrote it a little bit and I started teaching the residential real estate class.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at one point I was teaching two classes like a semester or a quarter and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And these guys loved it, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like everybody, they all think they're going to get out and flip houses.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I started, you know, from the fundamentals, I talk about credit, how to borrow, how hard money lenders, different types of bar, like everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, guys are walking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's the first time in my life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This was funny.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not that I think I was really in a, ever in a position for this to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This was really odd though.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Probably the second or third class when guys are leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and I'm having to check them off the roll, multiple guys are stopping and saying, yo, bro, putting their hand out, shaking my hand and going, good class.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was a good class, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then I have guys coming to me, telling me, hey, what are you teaching these guys?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, what do you mean?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They go, he goes, my cell is telling me he's gonna get out and make millions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm taking Cox's real estate class.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm telling you, I can do this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm gonna be a millionaire.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it's like, this flipping house is like, this is not... But the truth is, if, you know, it is the...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Flipping houses was what I basically told these guys, especially the drug dealers, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're a drug dealer and you were raised in the projects and you're going back to the projects.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is the one...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
industry that you will thrive at because you're a hustler.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're not afraid.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A 45-year-old divorced white woman is not going into the hood knocking on doors to try and flip houses, but you will.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you know everybody in the neighborhood.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you'll knock on those doors.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you'll hustle.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you've been told no before.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you don't care.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you're not scared.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And there's tons of money to be made in lower income areas.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then when I go through the whole thing and how you can leverage...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, leverage your credit to borrow money to get into the property and do the renovations with very little money down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I do the whole thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
These guys, like they loved it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was, and what that did for me was two things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One, if you got to the class, 40 guys show up for the class and I say, look, if you don't want to go, you don't want to be here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You just want it because your counselor's making you get a certificate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't want to be here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bring me two coffees and like two creamers from commissary and I'll fill out all your paperwork.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you'll pass.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You'll get a certificate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't have to see you again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have full of coffee and creamer because at least 10 or 15 didn't want to be there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The other guys seriously wanted to be there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I don't want those guys to be there anyway.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're going to be a problem.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the other guys are serious about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And some of these guys sat through the class two, three, four times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Some of these guys got out and sent me money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, which is like a huge sign of respect, you know, by the way, because they don't owe me anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I did that and I taught GED because, you know, you have to do something for money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I met a bunch of cool guys and I was hanging out and I was doing well.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
After about three years, they transferred me to the low security prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At this point, the FBI starts showing up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
asking me questions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They asked me questions about the politician I bribed, you know, asked me questions about him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Statute of limitations was up and they were trying to tie him into the bank fraud because his name was Kevin White.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And one of my guys' name was Michael Kevin White.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so they were trying to tie him in, you know, did you, did he know about it?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because if he knew about it, statute of limitations is 10 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We could, no, he didn't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Um,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Should have thrown him in there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But anyway, because a couple years later, he gets indicted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He ends up going to jail anyway.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It could have decreased your sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Listen, listen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Stop.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Stop.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's funny, I had more problems at the, probably at the low than I did the medium, but at the medium, the only thing that happened was an article came out in the newspaper when I was at the medium, it came out and said, because they're still investigating things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So this article comes out and I'm on the front page
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
of the St.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Petersburg Times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was about the politician, big article.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And in the article, it says they interviewed Millie, my lawyer, and she says, well, when Mr. Cox was being interviewed by the FBI, one of the first things they wanted to know about was this politician.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she just said Mr. Cox was being interviewed by the FBI.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I immediately get taken into custody and they put me in the shoe, the hole, right, for my own protection.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm there for like 45 days.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then after 45 days, they're like, Cox, what do you want us to do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You want us to ship you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, no, put me back on the compound.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, half the guys here cooperated.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, yeah, it's more than half.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, but this is a guy from SIS, which is like their internal security.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, but 100% of them are lying about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, you just came out in the newspaper.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, man, I'm not concerned.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you are concerned, you got to come immediately to the lieutenant's office and tell us.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll ship you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get out there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
People are giving me like the looking at me and what's up, you know, but I don't have a lot of friends anyway.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I come there to make friends.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so at one point, this one guy comes to me, I'm walking the yard, probably two days later, after I get back on the compound, I'm walking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
guy comes to me he has a goatee and he's got a it comes down here he's got a skull like a little skull thing he had he'd made whittled out of wood or something and uh you know definitely looks scary but so i'm walking and he stopped he goes hey cox i've never talked to these guys i'd been there for a year or so and never talked to any of these guys they're all like bikers and you know aryan brotherhood and so you know i'm like uh yeah what's up he said bubba bubba's their leader he goes
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, Bubba told me to tell you not to walk the yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He don't want to see you out in the yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, I'm going to walk the yard tonight.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, and if I get the shit kicked out of me, then I get the shit kicked out of me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But did you talk back to a guy with a wooden skull hanging off his beard?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I did, but you know what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was right in front of the guard shack.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so there was guards in the guard shack, you know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
feet away really you weren't scared i mean i i think i just got numb like i'm not stupid but i'm all i'm walking around i'm you know i was scared from the moment i got there on if that makes sense so you get to a point where you're just numb and you're waiting for it especially when i got out of the shoe got out of the shoe i went straight to my cell laid down a couple minutes later it was locked down they closed the doors i wake up the next morning i go to chow i go to my job and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like it starts all over again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I had a very packed routine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I didn't spend, although there's guys everywhere, and I'm thinking at some point I might just be walking around, a guy might walk up and just smash me in the head, but it didn't happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it's not the guys aren't getting stabbed, but they've got it coming.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't tell on anybody here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't do anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not that on other yards I might not have gotten smashed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I didn't get smashed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'd been there a while and I taught the real estate class and everybody wanted to take real estate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I think that insulated me to a degree.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I also had made a few friends there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think they were probably also kind of putting out the words like, bro, cut this guy a break.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm walking across and I tell the guy, I said, look, man, I said, you know, and I wasn't rude to him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He wasn't even rude to me, really.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, don't walk the yard anymore, Bubba.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't want you to walk the yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, listen, I'm going to go to chow and then I'm going to go out there tonight and walk the yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if I get smashed, I get smashed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, because I got 26 years and I cannot walk around for the next 26 years not going on the yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, so I'm going to be there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if that happens, then that happens.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he looked at me and he goes, man, I don't give a fuck what you do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's what Bubba told me to tell you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I told you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, I don't give a shit what you do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he walked off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I went out there that night with a buddy of mine named Zach, a guy named John Gordon, with my cousin and a couple of his buddies.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We walked the track for about an hour.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bubba and a group of his guys stood there and looked at us.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And as we walked, probably closest we got to him was 30 or 40 feet.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That went on for 30 minutes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then they kind of broke up and went their separate ways.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, there was a couple of times where I would go to the chow hall
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I would go and I'd be sitting at a table and Bubba would walk up and tell the other guys at the table, I wanna let you guys know, he didn't even call me a snitch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, you're sitting with a cooperating witness.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, that's how you wanna roll.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, you ain't gonna be rolling with us if there's any trouble.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then they all kind of looked at me and they got their plate and they moved off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He didn't tell me to move.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he could have walked up and said, this is a snitch motherfucker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He didn't do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bubba was very respectful.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So as respectful as he could be.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Whatever you want to say about Bubba.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was a respectful man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You ever talk to him directly?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Never had a conversation with him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So that went on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I mean, when I say that went on, I mean, literally like that's a couple of times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said the same thing to a guy in line one time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Guy came up to me later and said, look, man, I'm sorry, man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was standing next to me in line.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Bubba said something to him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He went like 10 or 15 people back and stood in line.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Later on, he came up to me, man, I'm sorry, bro, but you know, blah, blah, blah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, bro, I said, look, I get it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're not friends.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Don't worry about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And here's the thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At some point there, I got, I ended up getting, well, the FBI started showing up there at the prison questioning me about my files in Tampa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
One of the 12 guys that were indicted, they show up and they start asking me about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so they're still kind of working it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, at the same time, I ended up getting moved to the low security prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get to low security prison, they show up over and over again, but at some point they come to me and they say, look, we went to the US attorney, we presented everything we have.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have enough to indict all of these guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think it was whittled down to maybe eight instead of 12.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they said, look, the entire economy is melting down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At this point, some of these are four or five years old.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We've got banks that are melting down right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We got 100, 200, 300 million, 500, half a billion dollar banks that we're investigating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We don't have time to deal with this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're not going to indict those people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they get away.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The agent I was working with, her name was Leslie Nelson.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Very nice person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She came, actually didn't have to do this, came to the prison to tell me this is what happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when she'd first come to see me, I told her, listen, I want to do all this, but I
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
no matter what happens, I need you to write me a letter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If they don't indict these people, I need you to write me a letter that I can present to the US attorney on my behalf that I did everything I could.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, I'll do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's not going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're going to get the indictments and everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So of course, a year later, she shows up after nothing happens and they've dropped the case.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She shows up and she tells me what happened and he's not going to do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, do you remember that you, she goes, I got the letter right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
gave me the letter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was like, that's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Great letter.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, it says, you know, Mr. Cox has worked, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's done this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And even said, you know, he deserves a reduction in my opinion, blah, blah, blah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So but there's no there's nobody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody was right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody was arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I call my public defender.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I call Millie.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I explain it to her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, she starts, you know, she starts crying and she's sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what are we going to do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, there's nothing you can do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
your time barred.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like you have one year to file a 2255, which is to say that your lawyer is ineffective or that the court has made a mistake in some way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it had been over a year.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It'd been years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It'd been like four years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, yeah, I mean, you're just, there's nothing you can do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's in tears.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I kind of feel like I'm done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At that point, I'm done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what I do is I start writing a book, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I write a memoir, my memoir.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this is not a shameless plug for my memoir, by the way, which is amazing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But so what happens is I actually write it, you know, I write it and then I have to rewrite it, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because I don't really know what I'm doing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'd been reading true crime and that sort of thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I've always liked true crime.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get a literary agent, comes to see me, tells me I have to rewrite some stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We rewrite it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
As I'm finishing up my memoir, there's a guy that comes on the compound and
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And his name is Ephraim Deverelli.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Ephraim Deverelli and his business partner, a guy named David Pakows, were selling munitions, AK-47 rounds, really tons of munitions, but they got in trouble with this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they were selling them to the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
government for the Afghani security forces.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Mm-hmm.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And there had been an article in Rolling Stone magazine about him, and I'd read it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And somebody points him out and says, hey, that's that guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went up to him and said, hey, bro, you just got here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, look, if you want to write a memoir or anything, I'm finishing my memoir.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can always help you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can help you write an outline.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can get a professional writer, whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you need any help, he's like, yeah, all right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Ephraim Deverelli was played by Jonah Hill in the movie War Dogs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So a few months later, he comes to me and says, you know, hey, they sold the movie rights.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, oh, wow, that's great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, and you don't want to write a memoir.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, yeah, man, it was sold to the guys from the Hangover movie.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, so the guys from the Hangover movie are going to make a movie about you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, you understand they're going to call it like, dude, where's my hand grenade?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you're going to be Spicoli from Fast Time at Ridgemont High.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like you're going to be a joke.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All because you don't want to write a memoir.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
and get your, your version out there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was like, holy shit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I ended up writing an outline for him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We worked together.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then he asked, can I read your book?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, sure.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I give it to him and he reads it and he comes back and he said, bro, this is the best thing I've ever read in my life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And to be honest, I later found out he'd read about three books in his entire life, but still was very, it was very nice.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, uh, he asked me if I'll write his book.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I write his book.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We work out a deal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, uh,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm saying all this because I basically settle in.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to do 26 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'd kind of written a manuscript prior to even taking off on the run.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I used to listen to John Grisham books.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I'd listen to him in the car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I liked John Grisham books and I'd actually written a manuscript about a mortgage broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, he writes about lawyers and it's like being a lawyer is not exciting.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If you can make that sound exciting, I can make being a mortgage broker.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I wrote a book, you know, put it in my desk.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the FBI found it and they said, oh, it's a blueprint to the fraud that he's going to commit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It wasn't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Stop.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's as much that character was as much me as John Grisham's characters are him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, if John Grisham did something similar to one of the.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll have to look that up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you already knew you could write.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I knew I liked it, but yeah, I think I got better and better at it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, you know, as you're writing and they had creative writing classes, you know, in prison at the low, you know, the low was a much different breed of animal, you know, like it, you know, it was, you could very easily get hurt.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could get hurt either place, but
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
there were guys that have life sentences that been working out for 20 years and were just super angry, you know, at the medium.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if you got hurt at the medium, it was probably really go bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Uh, as opposed to you get hurt at the low, it's more like a, a fistfight in high school.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So with knives.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So anyway, I, so I'm there, I'm writing, I'm doing that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, uh,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There was a guy on the compound that came on the compound about that same time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His name was Frank Amadeo.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Frank Amadeo is a rapid cycling bipolar with features of schizophrenia.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Rapid cycling bipolar with features of schizophrenia.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Rapid cycling.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's just constant, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so there are moments in his manic state where he...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
reoccurring psychosis, I guess, is that he believes, and since he was in his early teens, has believed that he is preordained by God to be emperor of the world.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's a lawyer, disbarred, stole close to $200 million from the federal government.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They gave him 22 years and they sent him to Coleman.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But it doesn't, this is the part I love, the delusions don't affect his legal work.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Doesn't say a ton for legal community, but- How do you know he's delusional?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm just asking questions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, he's, trust me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it's not me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like the transcripts, the lawyers, the doctors, the, you know, there's a ton of, a ton.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then if you saw him in action, you'd be like, oh, wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, he would be completely normal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He would be having a completely normal conversation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And somebody would say something and he'd go, that makes me so angry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not going to let them do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm gonna need your transcripts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm gonna need a 2255 form.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're gonna file up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it would just, and everybody would sit there and be like, okay, Frank, I'll get to this and I'll get.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was insane.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was the most insane.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was basically running a medium-sized law firm from inside of the prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was training people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He taught the, he taught the,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
the legal research class and was training people on how to do legal research in prison, how to put together motions, how to fight their cases, how to do the research, how to type them up, everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's teaching...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's teaching a law, it's like a law school, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like he's teaching these guys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He, listen, they made such a mistake locking this guy up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he's a great lawyer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Listen, it's going to get worse.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's going to get worse because here's what happens is at this point, I don't talk to him for probably a year or so because everybody's saying he's crazy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then for like a year, he gets there, he's drooling out of the side of his mouth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They got him on a ton of medication.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It takes them about a year to get them to take him off the medication.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he gets them to take him off the medication.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then he starts kind of stabilizing his mood by drinking Pepsi.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know, I know it's crazy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know how, I see you looking at me like this guy's delusional.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It works, whatever works.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So at some point, one of my buddies comes to me and says, look, you gotta go talk to Frank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, here's the other thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Over the course of a year or two that he starts doing legal work for guys, he starts just taking on guys' cases.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll do the motion.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll do your legal work.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll do this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Keeps him busy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But suddenly you start hearing people get released.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Jimmy just got 10 years knocked off his sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's going to halfway house next month.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Tom got an immediate release.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Frank's walking people up to R&D, shaking their hands.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Guys are walking up to him in tears, crying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so crazy or not, what choice do I have?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I called three different lawyers on the street and said, this is what happened.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What can I do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What can I do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They told me to do this and this and this, and I worked with them, and then they decided not to proceed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And what can I do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they said, you're hit, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's nothing you can do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
In the 11th Circuit, you cannot force them to file a reduction on your behalf.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You cannot do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's impossible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're hit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'd love to take your money, Mr. Cox.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
but it's not going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't, I'm just going to take your money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're going to lose.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Three different lawyers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I talked to TI's lawyer, told me, bro, it's not going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My buddy says, go talk to Frank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, why wouldn't I?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got nothing else to lose.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go talk to Frank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He actually has a little manic moment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That little thing that I just showed you, that's exactly what he said the first time I talked to him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I won't let this happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, I'm gonna need your transcripts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm gonna need you to get this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need to see your indictment.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm gonna need your percentage report.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm gonna need, he's like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I turned to my buddy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, bro, I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know what you're thinking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's fucking crazy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, I understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let just, what choice do you have?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, fuck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So Frank files a 2255 motion on my behalf stating that I'm not time barred, that Millie was, we file it against Millie stating that she was ineffective, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That she didn't understand the law.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She had me plead to something because she thought I could get a reduction simply for
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
doing Dateline.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, by the way, when I was in the medium, the government came to me and asked me to be interviewed by American Greed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm interviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They get me on the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They talk to me, everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The prosecutor wants me to do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's re-interviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody's re-interviewed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It airs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Millie goes to the government and says, look, reduce the sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They go, no, Millie, it's not enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then they come to me and they ask me to write an ethics and fraud course.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I write an ethics and fraud course.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The guy I write the course with, he flies up to Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He talks with, I think he drove up, but he goes up to Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He talks with a US attorney, talks to Millie.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She insists, if he does this, I will reduce his sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I will definitely consider this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Definitely consider.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, definitely consider.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then we do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's being used all over the nation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Consider it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's where, at this point, I go to Frank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I tell Frank what's happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Frank says, yeah, this is, he goes, every time they asked you to do something, it reset the time bar.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have a year from that time to file a 2255.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, he insists that that was a viable argument.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nobody else does.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But he said, I'm not going to let them do this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to take care of this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to get your sentence reduced.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Emperor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Emperor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, Emperor.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he is a character.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Anyway, so he files a 2255.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The government comes back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They say he's time barred.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Frank comes back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They answer his motion.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He files a retort.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They file, you know, it just goes back and forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's held for six months to a year.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at some point I go to mail call and they call my name and they hand me this thing and I open it up and it says the government's filed a motion for a stay so that they want the court to appoint me a lawyer and to discuss filing a rule 35, reducing my sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I, you know, I'm like, I read it, but I couldn't even understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, we don't understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, I mean, I rushed to go find Frank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I show it to Frank and he says, he says, yeah, they're staying it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're going to send you a lawyer and you're going to negotiate for how much they're going to reduce your sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, perfect.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they fly this woman down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Her name was Esther Panitch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She flies down, comes to the visitation room.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They bring me there, the lawyer's room, whatever they call it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so we're sitting there and I remember we're talking and she says, listen, your motion, your 2255 is written well, but honestly, you don't have much of a prayer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're offering you a one level reduction, which is 30 months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, oh, that's not enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, well, I don't know what to tell you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, they're willing to bring you back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, well, you know, I mean, I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got to talk to Frank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Frank said I deserve this many levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, we're going back for it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, who's Frank?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, Frank's the guy that's doing all my legal work.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, he didn't write all this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I explained it to her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, he's an inmate?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's, why is he here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I tell her, well, because he stole a bunch of money from the federal government because he's trying to take over the world.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I tell her that whole thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, you're letting a mentally incompetent person do your legal work.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, yeah, because all the competent attorneys wouldn't do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They said I didn't have a prayer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Your people said I didn't have a prayer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, Frank said he could get this done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, well, I mean...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
you know, you don't like, I don't even know why they're offering you one level.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, well, Frank said, you know, and I'm like, Frank this, Frank that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so she ended up saying, she's like, you're taking advice from a legally incompetent person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she said, you know, you really don't have a prayer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, then why are you here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, if they could crush me so easily, why are you here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, they're giving me one level.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let me talk to Frank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll let you know what we're going to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I leave.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I call her a couple of days later.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I tell her, and I talked to Frank.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Frank said, go back, go back and argue for more.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I think the judge is going to give you more.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's going to give you at least, you know, between whatever he said, like six or seven levels or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get, I get moved all the way back to Atlanta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The FBI agent comes to talk on my behalf.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Multiple people show up to talk on my behalf.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They say, Millie, who I filed the 2255 against.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm basically saying, you're ineffective.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're incompetent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But she knows the game.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, I get it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She gets on the stand and testifies for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the judge goes, you know, listen, I think we were asking for like nine levels or something outrageous.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Prosecutor starts arguing for one level.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, listen, one level is not nearly enough for what Mr. Cox has done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, Mr. Cox, I know you're arguing for nine levels off your sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, that was never going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I felt like I got slapped.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, so I'm going to go with six levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
no, no, I'm sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said three levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to go with three levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, which is, which is seven years, which he said for somebody who has no arrest associated with his case, he said, I think it's pretty good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's why that's his judgment and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he hammered, put the gavel down and walks off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got seven years and I was hoping for more.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get moved back to Coleman.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get moved back to Coleman and I go to up to Frank and I said, Frank, I got, I got seven years off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know, I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I don't mean to sound unappreciative.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I just, I said, I was hoping for more.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, I was too.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, it looks like we're gonna have to eat this elephant one spoonful at a time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, something will come out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Something's gonna happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, keep your ears open.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Something will happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you know, I honestly, by that point I'd done
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I'd done eight years and I remember like if I got a year off for the drug program and good time and this and I had about eight or eight years left to go or nine years left.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, you know, I can do that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll write.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I'd been writing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By that point, I'd actually written a story.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I got a book deal for Deverelli, you know, and I ended up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
writing a synopsis of a guy's story and I got him in Rolling Stone magazine and I got a book deal for that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I got an advance, it's like 3,500 bucks for being in prison, a prisoner to get a $3,500 advance, like I'm a millionaire.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's a lot of money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, and then we optioned the film rights.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Basically, the synopsis that I wrote for this reporter, journalist for Rolling Stone, he goes to Rolling Stone with what I wrote and gives it to them and they okay it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They say, yeah, this is great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We want you to write an article based on this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He writes the article.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He tells me that the article will be from him, his name, Guy Lawson, Douglas Dodd, which is the name of the kid I wrote the memoir about, and Matthew Cox.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
A couple of weeks before the article is going to be published, he tells me Rolling Stone doesn't want my name on the article because I'm in federal prison and it doesn't look good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But don't worry, he's going to put my name in the article.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's just as good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I argue it's not just as good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, I would be I would be a writer for Rolling Stone magazine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you understand, I'm trying to I'm trying to come up with something here that I can rebuild my life as a true crime writer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's no good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that wasn't so bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That wasn't the worst of the worst of it was 90% of the article that he published was taken directly from what I sent him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I mean, sick to my stomach, bro, just sick over it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, but they option, they option the life rights for that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I got a piece of that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So there's like $7,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get a check for that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm thrilled.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can keep writing because you have to understand writing on the computer there, they charge you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I start writing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, they charge you for phone calls, writing, every single thing costs money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I start writing all these guys' stories.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I start writing books.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just come back from, went back to Atlanta, got seven years knocked off my sentence, come back and I'm walking around the compound.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, there was a guy that was there named Ron Wilson.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Ron Wilson ran, if you look in the newspaper, it says it's like a $100 million Ponzi scheme, but really it was $57 million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he had lost $57 million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So it says 100, you know, they always exaggerate because 57 is not enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Ron ended up getting 19 and a half years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Ron was an old con man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
early 60s, 62, 61.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And Ron... And I liked Ron.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're walking around the compound and he's like, so what are you going to do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, you got eight or nine more years to go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, eh, you know, I'm going to keep writing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And when I get out of here, maybe I'll have a huge body of work and maybe I'll be able to sell it or maybe I'll be able to option some more stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if I could get together with Rolling Stone or get with some of these magazines, I could start writing for them and I could option those.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe I could walk out of here with something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, right, right, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So Ron was, who'd only been locked up like a year or so, he was cooperating with the Secret Service in his case against some of his co-defendants.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he's already been debriefed and he's cooperating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's actually thinking he might get brought back to have to testify at a trial.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We're talking and we're walking.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he keeps saying, you know, even if they charge those guys and even if this happens, they're not going to reduce my sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're not going to cut my sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, first of all, well, probably because you stole a bunch of money from pension funds and churches.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That didn't help your case.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I don't say that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I say, oh, they have to, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They'll have to.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, if you cooperate, they're going to have to.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if they don't, we'll have Frank file a 2255.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That crazy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he says, OK, he's like, yeah, yeah, you don't understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So this goes on for months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, what is the problem?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, you know, they think I hid Ponzi scheme money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, and he'd actually dug up like five or six million dollars in Ponzi scheme proceeds that he dug.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He buried in these.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, literally.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Literally buried in aluminum ammunition canisters.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Super interesting guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he actually went and dug them up and gave them to him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, well, you gave him all the money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You didn't hide anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Relax.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not a big deal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're not going to find anything, so don't worry about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so he mentions it a couple weeks later, a couple weeks later.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then one day I go, bro, why do you keep bringing this up?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, what are you concerned about?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Can I trust you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went, probably not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, I did hide some money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, did you bury it in a can somewhere?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I gave my wife like 150,000 in cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, okay, well, she's not going to say anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's using it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, no, you don't understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Since then, she found out I was having an affair.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we're going to get a divorce and she hates me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think she'll turn that money in just to make sure that I don't get a reduction.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because if you lie to the FBI, they're not going to, it doesn't matter what you've done for them, they won't give you anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so he's, I mean, I'm sorry, it's Secret Service or anybody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He has clearly lied to the Secret Service at this point.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If she goes and says, this is what he gave me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he's like, I was like, oh, wow.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, and I gave my, my brother's holding maybe 30,000 for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at that moment, I was like, wow, like this poor guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, that's not what I thought at all.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What I thought was, is that enough to get me a sentence reduction?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You son of a bitch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went and I sat there and you know what I thought?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought, I thought, no, I thought that's not enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's not enough.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's not even $200,000.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, and they didn't want to give me a reduction.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My prosecutor was pissed that I got seven years off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She wanted me to get 30 months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's not going to give me anything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's up to her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's not going to do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go, I lay down, I go to bed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like a month later,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm on the phone with my lawyer because I had written, remember I wrote, I had a manuscript for my book and I wanted to put some of the stuff that was said in my sentencing in the book.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was trying to get my lawyer to mail me my transcripts and she hadn't done it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I called her and I said, listen, you said you were going to, she's like, oh God, man, I'm so sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm so busy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then she went, this is Esther.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, so what else is going on in there?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And this, she never wanted to talk to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like she didn't, you know, when they were paying her, she didn't want to talk to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, and I was like, what do you mean?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I just need my transcription.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, nothing's happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's nothing you want to talk about.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I told her about Ron Wilson and she goes, hold on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She looks him up on the computer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, oh, wow, this is a bad guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is a bad guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he told you, then you know where it is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Absolutely.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I can tell you exactly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, okay, okay, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, let me look into this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So a week later, a CO comes to me and goes, hey Cox.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, what's up?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, listen, at the next move, because you know, they have controlled moves.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
All the doors are locked and they open them up for 10 minutes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you can run to the chow hall or you can run to the, you can't run though.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's no running on the compound, but you can walk fast.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
To the rec yard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
or the library, whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, at the next move, go to SIS.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I go to SIS on the next move.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I was used to going there, by the way, because I was constantly ordering Freedom of Information Acts.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'd order, you're an inmate, and I'm writing a story for you, and I'd order it, and they'd send it to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then they would catch it, and they'd be like, why are you getting Lex's
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they call me down there and I go, no, I ordered it for him and I'm writing a story.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'd already been in Rolling Stone and everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're like, what's the story?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I tell them the story.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so I go down there, but this is different.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This, the guy answers the door and this guy, they call him Bulldog.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was a real asshole.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was a lieutenant at SIS.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, come in, get in here, Cox, sit down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he dials the phone and he goes, here, you got to talk to this guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I pick up the phone.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, hello?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the guy goes, hey, this is Agent Griffin with the Secret Service.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I understand you know where Ron Wilson has hidden Ponzi scheme money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want something in writing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want, you know, so I start doing that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they go, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I get his email address.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we start emailing each other back and forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he ends up getting a letter from –
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
the US attorney in South Carolina that says they will consider it substantial assistance if they make arrests or recover a substantial amount of money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's the best I'm gonna consider.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I start talking to this guy and he starts asking me questions about Ron Wilson.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, hey, ask him this, ask him this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm like, bro, I gotta kind of work that into a conversation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's an odd thing to ask.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So this goes on for six months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm asking questions and I'm typing up little reports and I'm a prison snitch now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm not just like cooperating.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm now I'm a prison snitch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I've moved down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've moved down actually from being just a cooperating witness or- Because you're in prison?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Is that what makes you a prison snitch?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Prison snitch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can't even really say-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, you could say prison rat.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could say prison rat.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think prison snitch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think that's probably the closer to the term that most guys would use.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's the difference between a snitch and a rat in prison?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It rolls off the tongue better.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Prison rat doesn't sound as good as prison snitch.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't spend a lot of time thinking about this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what happens is I'm asking Wilson questions periodically.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And at some point they contact me and they say, listen, Wilson's about to get some bad news.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they go, he's, you know, like, I don't want to tell you what it is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let us know what happens.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like two days go by.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And one day Wilson comes up to me one day and says, Cox, Cox.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, oh shit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, hey, what's up?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, oh my God, you're not going to believe this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got indicted.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
what happened?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My wife, they questioned my wife and my brother and my brother, my wife walked in first.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, I don't have nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know what you're talking about.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The next day, the brother walks in and gives them $150,000 in cash.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so the next day, the wife comes back and gives him $250,000 in cash and a bunch of silver, like gold bullion and silver, you know, because his Ponzi scheme was based off of silver.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, he was going to invest in silver for you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So half a million dollars.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They turn over half a million.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, half a million dollars?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought she was like $100,000 or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, I know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't know I could trust you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, Ron.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
what are you doing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I thought we were, so he, so I'll tell you something just for the icing on the cake, by the way, the icing on the cake, let me explain one more thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's, so if you're going to, if somebody cooperates with the federal government,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Let's say I get arrested and they go, you want to help yourself?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you go, yeah, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Look, Jimmy, he lives next to me and he's running a meth house, you know, a meth lab, whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they go and they raid Jimmy and he gets arrested.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're going to get something off for that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not a lot, but you're going to get something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, and they could just say, we were going to bust him anyway.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We were already onto him, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, the next level would be you wear a wire.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I wore a wire and I was in danger.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now keep in mind, I'm asking this guy questions inside federal prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm in danger.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's like the next level.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're taking an active participation in the investigation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the third level would be you actually get on the stand and you cooperate and you testify.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's no better cooperation than that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When Wilson says to me, they're going to move me back to South Carolina.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They've indicted me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They charged me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What do you think I should do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, I think you should go to trial.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
because I know they'll have to call me as a witness just to let you know, because I don't want to walk out of here and have you feeling like, hey, there's some good to this guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm ready to cut Wilson like a fish.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But you are putting yourself in danger if you get on the stand, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm already in danger.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If people there heard what I was doing, I probably would have been in danger.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Does that increase the chance of them hearing or no?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It does, but it also increases my ability to get more off my sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So what happens is a couple of days later, he's on what's called the pack out, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're going to move him maybe a week later.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they come and get him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They move him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He gets back there to South Carolina and he pleads guilty.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They sentence him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He gets six months added on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So now from 19 and a half to 20 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And by the way,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When COVID hit, he was released.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he only ended up doing like six years on a 20-year sentence because he was older.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
By that point, he's 66, 67 years old.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Anybody older than 55 was endangered, especially in the prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they had a COVID thing where they were releasing these guys and sending them home on ankle monitors.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's an old man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's not going to hurt.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's not a danger.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they sent him home.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he ended up doing, so he didn't even serve the six months.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He didn't even serve the original sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not that I care.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm just saying, if it makes you feel like poor Ron, it's okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So his wife got like a hundred years, a hundred, she got like a hundred hours of community service or something or 60 hours.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think his brother got six months paper.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So they got charged with obstruction of justice, you know, and they didn't, neither one of them, you know, it's like six months,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Probation and community service, nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when I turn around, I'm waiting for my reduction, waiting, waiting.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
After about 90 days after this guy gets sentenced, maybe six months, I send a letter, hey, what's going on to my prosecutor, the prosecutor of both districts, no response.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then I go to Frank, I explain to Frank, and Frank has known what's going on the whole time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And Frank goes, okay, I'm gonna file a 2255.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So we file a 2255.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Government comes back and the first thing they say is, your honor, we don't know about any cooperation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We've never heard about any cooperation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So of course, then we submit the letter that we have.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The judge comes back and the judge ends up saying, it's a little complicated, but he ends up saying, look, I don't have jurisdiction to hear this because you're,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You may be time barred, but I'm going to let the appeals court hear it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Now, typically you have to get what's called like a right of certification to appeal.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You have to make sure that you actually have a case.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He says, I'm waiving the cert and I'm waiving the $500 fee to file with them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, and he basically expedites it for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
which is a subtle way of telling the prosecutor, I think he's got something and I'm sending it up there.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the way he writes his motion, it's basically saying, I don't have the jurisdiction to hear it, to do anything, but they do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They need to do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm paving the way.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't have to pay any money and you don't need that, sir.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the prosecution immediately comes back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They file a one level reduction.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And we immediately, Frank files something saying, hey, stop.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We don't want the reduction.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We don't want the one level.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We want to come back to court.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Please don't rule on it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So the judge says, okay, I'm freezing everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm putting a stay on everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to give this guy a lawyer to try and figure out what you're going to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They fly down a lawyer, Leanne Webber.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she comes and she comes and sees me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says, listen, I see that you want to go back and fight this and this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But honestly, I don't think you're going to get anything more than one level.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I talked to the prosecution.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They said they'll give you what she said.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can work on trying to get you two levels, but you don't have much of a prayer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're going to get crushed.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, well, then then why are you here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If they can crush me so easy, why don't they do it?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why would they pay you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like they pay them like 12 grand or something just to fly down and all your expenses to negotiate for me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Why not crush me?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, Frank said four levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, who's Frank?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, Frank's the guy that wrote all this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, oh, is he an attorney?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, is he in here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, yeah, he's in here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, why is he in here?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I tell her, he was taking over the world.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she says-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
that's the strangest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, I understand.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But Frank said, and she's like, you're listening to an incompetent, you know, absolutely.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she, and Frank said, four level, we want four levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She, he said for me to tell you, we want four levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She leaves.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She goes to the U.S.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
attorney.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We argue two levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They come back and say two levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, we go back and forth.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We start filing motions saying we want to go back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We want a hearing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We want to bring back all the FBI agents, the Secret Service agents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she's like, well, you want to turn this into a circus?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Exactly what I want to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to turn it into the biggest circus because I've already got one level.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They come back one day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She says, listen, three levels is the best you're going to get.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, so I guess you'll be moved back here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We'll go to the hearing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, no, no, no, I'll take three levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she goes, what are you talking?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She said, you said four levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You said Frank wouldn't let you take anything less than four.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, no, Frank said to tell you four.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was happy with three.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I wanted you to argue for four.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm good with three.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I don't want to be moved back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't have to get on that bus.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know what it's like to be moved?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's horrible.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I said, I just want the three levels.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So then we argue about the wording for about two, three months, and then they file it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I get five years knocked off my sentence because three levels at this, at the level I was at now isn't seven years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Every level you get a little less time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I get five years off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So now I've got 12 years knocked off my sentence.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
At this point, I maybe have a year and a half to go.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you know, that's doable.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was super, super happy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm going to tell you something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm sorry, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I didn't have a fucking prayer without that guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And as crazy as he is and much of a pain in the ass as he was, I could never repay him, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I shouldn't be here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm supposed to be in prison right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My out date was 2030 without that guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Where is he now?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't even know how he did it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They even threw him back in prison again for six months, and he got himself out again.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, there's no doubt in my mind I would be in prison right now if it wasn't for him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's done this for others?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Walk people right out, 10 years off, five years off, nine years off, 10 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, it's, I didn't pay, and I didn't pay for one thing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't pay for my stamps.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He paid for everything.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I think he was willing to, he's willing to badger them into doing, you know, what they should have done to begin with.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I actually wrote a book about it, which he loved.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
About him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
About him and his story.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's so over the top what happened with him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I tried to take over the Congo.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, there's a documentary about it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's called Nine Days in the Congo.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's an insane story.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's one of those stories that's just like, how is this not a movie?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's not a movie yet?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've pitched it several times and-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
it'd be, it would be great.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But so I wrote a synopsis and I turned that into a book.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What's the name of the book?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, it's insanity.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But about it, like a year and a half later, like I ended up getting out of prison and I went to the halfway house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What'd that feel like?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Freedom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was, uh, Oh, this is bad, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is bad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I, I,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Remember when I was leaving the prison?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, I met some great guys in prison, which is a weird thing to say.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I've met better people in prison than I'd ever met outside prison at that low.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, because it was the first time I actually had friends outside.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, like I really had someone that wanted to hang out with me just like I didn't I didn't have anything to offer them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't make you any money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I can't do anything for you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
We just hanging out because we like to laugh or have things in common or we're fascinated by each other or we just have good time and fun.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So when I was leaving, I remember my mom showed up and my brother showed up and they picked me up and we were driving off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember looking back at the prison and my brother said, well, I'll bet you're glad to see that, you know, to leave that behind you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I started crying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's like nobody talked.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was so uncomfortable.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was just, I started crying.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it wasn't because I was like, oh, it's over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was because it was like survivor's guilt.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, like I was leaving all of my friends behind.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I felt so bad that I was leaving them.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But I went to the halfway house and I had four
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had, so when I was getting out, I remember joking that I had exhausted my TrueLinks account, my inmate account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'd exhausted it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had like 18 cents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I couldn't even figure out how to spend it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they give you a debit card when you leave.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, like, and they charge you every time you swipe, you use the card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I don't even have enough to spend the 18 cents, you know, because the charge is like $3.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I was like, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, I wonder if they'll still give me my debit card.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm laughing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody's like, what are you going to eat?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What are you this?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What are that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my one buddy looked at me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was like, you can't go to the halfway house with nothing, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, no, it's cool.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, no, it's cool.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I said, no, it's cool.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I want to start at the bottom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've got that coming.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got working at McDonald's coming.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm going to work at McDonald's.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't give a fuck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was like, well, I think you're going to need to buy clothes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, it's at the Goodwill.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They'll give you a bunch of crap if you don't have anything, if you're indigent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, I'm indigent.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And a couple of days before that,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm leaving.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
$400 ends up on my account.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, what the fuck?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it was from a buddy of mine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go to him, my buddy, Tommy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, Tommy, did you put $400 on my account?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, I can't let you go for nothing, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get to the halfway house and I go to Walmart and I buy $300 worth of clothes at Walmart.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've never been in a Walmart.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go to Super Bowl.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're huge.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go there and I buy a bunch of clothes and I buy about 300 bucks worth of clothes.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I still have some of the blue jeans to this day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I still wear some of the blue jeans.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I stayed in the halfway house and I, I,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
called a buddy of mine named Treon, Treon Calta.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he owns a gym.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I grew up with him, his whole family, like they owned a bunch of gyms.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I called him and I said, hey, man, I'm in the halfway house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was like, hey, what's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, can I do anything for you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, I mean, I need a job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't think he was going to give me a job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was, bro, you're hired.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll give you a job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I can't minimum wage.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, that's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
If I can stay out of here, you can work like 80 hours a week.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, if I can just stay out of here 80 hours and you pay me minimum wage, he goes, oh, hell yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Perfect.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm at the gym and I got free reign.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm playing on my computer goofing off all day.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my buddy Pete, who's still locked up, he's texting me and calling me and he's like, not texting me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's emailing me through the core link system.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, and he's,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
calls me periodically.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, have you started a website?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because one of the things I was going to do when I got out was I was going to start a website with all these stories that I'd written.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, no, Pete, I can't.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't have a computer.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, well, how much is a computer?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
They're like 300 bucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, I could probably get a used Apple MacBook, like a five-year-old MacBook or something, I don't know, for like $350 or whatever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, but he was like, okay, so that's all you need, 300 bucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, no, no, no, no, no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, it's not 300 bucks, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's 300 bucks.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Plus it's getting a WordPress website, which I said costs money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Plus it's hiring somebody to help me figure it out because I don't, I'm inept.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't know how anything works.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, plus I need this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Plus I need that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I got a bunch of stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need $600 for this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need $300 for this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need $500 for this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need $1,000 for this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I'll get you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay, I got it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he reads off a list.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, I got you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But Pete doesn't have any money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, how are you going to give me any money?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, every day I walk across the compound, some people stop me and say, how's Cox doing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I say, oh, he's okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they say, does he need anything?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I say, no, no, he's good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I'm going to start telling these fuckers.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He needs something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You want to do something for him?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Here's what he needs.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I ended up getting two laptops sent to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got the computer program.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Final Cut Pro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I had guys in prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
cutting me checks so that I could build a website and put all these stories on the website.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I start putting the website, and I don't know what I'm doing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I put them on the website slowly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It takes forever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm putting pictures up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm trying to figure out how, you know, Photoshop works, how all this stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The whole time I was, I wanted to start, because everybody, the last one, I was just getting out of prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody kept telling me like, bro, you got to start a podcast.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I don't know what a podcast is.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The term podcast came into existence in 2009 when I'd been locked up three years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'd never been on YouTube.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So by the time I get out, the last year or two, guys are coming up to me, giving me magazines like, this is what a pod you need to read.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Look, true crime's huge.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you have to think, guys are asking me every couple of days, Cox, you got any stories?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Did you read Cash and Coke?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And they're like, uh,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
is that the one where the guys are robbing the drug dealer?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Oh, no, I read that one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Did you read this one?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, no, I haven't read that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's the one with the guy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I'm giving these little stories and then they'd come back and give them to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You don't have anything in there, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So this is guys that would never read in their life are reading.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm writing about the guy in B2, the guy in C1.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I put up the whole thing and they're, well, anyway, they're all telling me do a true crime podcast, true crime podcast.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't really know what that is, but by now I'm starting to listen to them on YouTube, you know, serial and cold case files, you know, that kind of stuff.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think that's what I want to do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, my buddy Treon says there's a guy named Danny Jones that runs a podcast called Concrete and it's in St.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Petersburg and he lives a couple of miles from me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I see him all the time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I went,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, you should email him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got a guy on there all the time that does real estate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I go, I just got out of prison for bank fraud related to real estate.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He doesn't want to interview me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, well, you could, maybe he does.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Maybe you could ask him about starting a podcast.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I sent him an email.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I remember Danny called me and he said, hey, is this Matt Cox?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, yeah, this is Matt.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, I got your email.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is Danny Jones.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he says, he says, yeah, I got your email, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, that's a good fucking email.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, I get a lot of emails, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, that's a good one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That was a good one.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, that was really good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I mean, that was well-written.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, I immediately knew I had to talk to you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I said, oh, okay.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, cause you know, I start off with, I think I started off with, hey, my name is Matt Cox and I'm a con man.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Good opening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was recently released from federal prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And so he was like, oh yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, who says that?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So-
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Anyway, he said, what's going on?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I said, well, and I tell him what's going on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I want to start a podcast, blah, blah, blah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, Danny, he listens to me for 30 minutes to an hour and I've heard this and this.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, yeah, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's, you know, YouTube's not really like that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that's not really how we do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I don't know that you're going to have to get a production company and blah, blah, blah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He goes, but you know what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
What you really need to do is to see if people are even interested in you or your story or you're able to talk.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You should come on my show, you know, shameless, trying to get some content.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, anyway, by the time I got, I couldn't do Danny's podcast.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, I can't do it, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm in the halfway house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So maybe I get out of the halfway house and a couple months go by, maybe two months, three months go by.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And one day I get a phone call from Danny.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, bro, you're out of the halfway house, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, cause I told him I got out in July.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was like October, November.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, right.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's like, listen, I had a guest fall through.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I got nobody.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I need you to come on.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I answered all your questions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I'd call them five, six times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I asked, you said, and I was like, ah, I was like, I'll fuck it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'll do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That video got like a 2 million views, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then I did Patrick Bet David flew me out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then I did Soft White Underbelly.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, then I did Vlad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Then I did all like people started and I'm sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then, you know, it just blew up.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then people started asking me to come and, you know, talk for no reason, which was crazy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But you were saying, I'm sorry.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No, he died when I was in prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He came to see me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, he came to see me two or three times.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
When you got the probation?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah, because I had to kind of explain that something's happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I didn't want him to hear it from anybody else.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So you talked to him directly about it?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
super disappointed did he ever tell you he loves you after that so i after i got the 26 years and the government decided they weren't going to indict anybody and i really was like wow this is it like you're done he came to see me but just by himself and i remember he i remember when he came to see me
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I, you know, he was by, it was by himself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like he never came by himself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I remember thinking my mom, something happened to my mom.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And as soon as I walked in, you know, he walked in, I go, what happened?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I go, where's mom?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he goes, oh, she's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's fine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he sat down with me and he said, and I, he said, how are you doing?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was like, I'm good.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was just like, you know, he was getting sick.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was getting older.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So, you know, we talked for a little bit.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
just about the situation.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he's like, well, what are you going to do?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, you know, there's nothing I can do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like everybody I've, I've called multiple attorneys.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've talked to people.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
There's nothing I can do.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was like, you know, we're going to, you're going to figure it out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you're smart and you're going to, you're not going to do all of that time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I was like, I'm done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's over.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm going to get out of here when I'm 60, if I behave myself.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if I don't, I'll be 64.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he was like, that's not going to happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So he said, I think that was the first time he, you know, I knew he was proud of me when I was making money, but he never said it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, you got to look like he was like impressed, but we were sitting there and he said, I remember he said, because it's the only time I can ever remember him saying he was proud of me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I remember he said, you're going to figure this out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He said, I'm not proud of where you ended up, but you've done amazing things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I wish you'd use your talents for something different, but you've done things that I could have never done.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And you've led an amazing, adventurous life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I'm proud of you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And that, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I wish he could see you now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My mom saw me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My mom's funny because my mom came to see me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My mom's a gangster.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My mom came to see me every two weeks for 13 years.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She missed about a month and a half when she had a stroke and ended up in a wheelchair.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then she came in the wheelchair and she would make my brother bring her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My brother and sister would be like, Mom, are you sure you want to go?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you know, it's so hard.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It's such a long drive, and you get so tired.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, I'll sleep in the car.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I know, but, you know, then we have to wait in that waiting area, you know, forever, and it takes forever.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
well, I know, but it's such a pain to get in and out and then in and out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And she was like, she was, I'm going to see my son and you're taking me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I, I, so she, yeah, she was, she was something else.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, and I would say, you know, like if, if I had to say,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I don't think about all the things I did to get out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I know, you know, there's all these guys that are like, you know, like, you know, oh, I wouldn't have done that.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'd have been a standup guy and I'd have been, well, good for fucking you, bro.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I wanted to get out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I wanted out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the icing on the cake of me getting out and I would have cut every motherfucker's head in that prison off.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was able to get out just in time to spend the last year and a half of my mother's life with her.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I saw her two or three times a week, took her to dinner once a week, was able to go on walks with her in her wheelchair.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I was sitting right next to her when she had her final stroke.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I held her hand when she took her last breath.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So if I have to be called a snitch the rest of my life, I don't give a fuck.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, I may not deserve more, but she deserved more.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'd scrap all this to be, you know, you always hear these guys say, I wouldn't change it because it made me the man I am today.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
The man I am today is a fucking 54 year old scumbag, multiple felons starting my life over broke, you know,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
living off of scraps, you know, trying to make YouTube work.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like, you know, I've got, you know, two dead parents.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm divorced.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a son that doesn't talk to me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I have a son that doesn't talk to me for good reason, not because of a misunderstanding.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Because he understands.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You can't even argue with him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's got a powerful argument.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't want to be a part of this guy's life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's a scumbag.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He stole money.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He went on the run.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He abandoned me when I was three years old.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I don't want anything to do with him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I get it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I, you know, and I tried to, I tried to, I've tried to do all the right things.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I wrote the letters.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I, I, I drew him pictures.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've tried to call and it's not happening.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I would do anything to go back and just be that regular middle-class guy with the two kids and the wife working a regular job.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, I, I like that's a good life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, that's a good person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And, you know, I just made one arrogant decision after another, after another, until it snowballed and I couldn't take it back.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And then I did everything I could.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And if I wasn't the calculating, backstabbing, scumbag motherfucker that I can be, I'd be in prison right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Sorry, you know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So yeah, yeah.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I would much rather be a CPA right now.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I would much rather, you know, should have stuck with being an insurance adjuster or something.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, you know, I never should have whited that 30-day late out.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Never.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was a mistake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was your first mistake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
It was a huge mistake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You think your son will forgive you?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Unfortunately, according to my ex-wife,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my sister and everybody that he is a part of their lives.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I've seen him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My mother's funeral, I saw him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've seen him at several functions.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You look across and he looks right through me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I think that everybody says he's just like you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He's just like you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And everybody says I'm just like my dad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've never smoked a cigarette.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I've never drank alcohol.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Not a drop.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Never done any drugs because my dad was an alcoholic.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my dad smoked two packs a day and everything in our house reeked of nicotine.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I've never smoked.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And my dad was a pill head.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was always on some kind of prescription medication.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
He was drug, you know, and I didn't want to be that person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And like one day I drew a line in the sand and I wouldn't do it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think he's drawn a line in the sand and he's decided that
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is the hill I'm going to die on, and I'm not going to back off it.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And the thing is, my ex-wife tells him, he's a good person.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You should be in his life.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
His father, because he was adopted when I was in prison, they adopted him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nick is his dad.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Nick has told him, Nick came to see me when I was in prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know, Nick has told him like, hey, this is a mistake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're making a mistake.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Everybody that knows me knows him.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And he said, he has said no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So I fully believe it's no.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, I hope it's not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, if I'm in a position that anybody would listen to me, but I, cause to me, and I don't have any advice that I don't think a father would give you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it's like,
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
work hard, be appreciative.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I mean, things are so good out here.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I hear people complain all the time.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And I think a huge part of just being happy is being appreciative.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Like I didn't appreciate anything when I had, this is so cliche, but when I had all the money in the world, I was miserable.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But when I got out with nothing, I was happier in prison with nothing.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
than I was with two or $3 million prior to prison and driving, dating a chick I never should have been dating, driving a sports car, vacationing all over the world, miserable.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm crying driving away from prison because I already miss my friends.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You could have never told me that was gonna happen.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Turns out money, in fact, does not buy happiness.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
No.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
And it is such a cliche, right?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
But it's so true.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Crying, driving away from prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You know what?
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I met my wife in the halfway house.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
So she had just gotten out of prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She was in the halfway house with me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She just did five years for like a meth conspiracy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I never would have met her if I hadn't gone to prison.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
This is what badass people do in Florida.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
My wife is a former... She used to... So she was an MP in the military.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She did...
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
she hunted she ran a hog hunting tour guide service for six years yeah went to prison for five years got out and then you know now she's a marine mechanic and yeah our date night the other night was uh we went in the middle of the night went to uh lake okachobee and went hog i went to alligator hunting yeah and if i may say so she's quite beautiful thank you and i did and did nice
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She didn't want to date me in the halfway house too.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I kept saying, I feel like you're sweet on me.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
She's like, I'm not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm not.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I make fun of guys like you.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
You're a city boy.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I'm like, I don't know.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
I feel like.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
Well, you wore her down.
Lex Fridman Podcast
#409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud
That's just exactly what I did.
What do you mean make fast money?
What do you mean make fast money?
What do you mean make fast money?
What are the videos you mentioned that you had taken videos?
What are the videos you mentioned that you had taken videos?
What are the videos you mentioned that you had taken videos?
I don't know what a cannabis cup is now.
I don't know what a cannabis cup is now.
I don't know what a cannabis cup is now.
They win like a cup for the best.
They win like a cup for the best.
They win like a cup for the best.
So what happened to him? He got arrested?
So what happened to him? He got arrested?
So what happened to him? He got arrested?
Those are young people decisions.
Those are young people decisions.
Those are young people decisions.
Yeah, it would be too much. I can't.
Yeah, it would be too much. I can't.
Yeah, it would be too much. I can't.
Yeah. Your story is wild.
Yeah. Your story is wild.
Yeah. Your story is wild.
The FBI has launched a manhunt here for a fugitive married couple.
The FBI has launched a manhunt here for a fugitive married couple.
The FBI has launched a manhunt here for a fugitive married couple.
Did they or did they take all?
Did they or did they take all?
Did they or did they take all?
Did I say that the other day? Yeah, I remember we talked about that.
Did I say that the other day? Yeah, I remember we talked about that.
Did I say that the other day? Yeah, I remember we talked about that.
Isn't it an abacus? What? Do you know what abacus is?
Isn't it an abacus? What? Do you know what abacus is?
Isn't it an abacus? What? Do you know what abacus is?
Abacus? Abacus. Oh, did I say it? I said it wrong last time, right? I don't know. Abacus? None of us knew what it was.
Abacus? Abacus. Oh, did I say it? I said it wrong last time, right? I don't know. Abacus? None of us knew what it was.
Abacus? Abacus. Oh, did I say it? I said it wrong last time, right? I don't know. Abacus? None of us knew what it was.
Then they're psycho anyway.
Then they're psycho anyway.
Then they're psycho anyway.
I'm not saying he's awesome. Come on.
I'm not saying he's awesome. Come on.
I'm not saying he's awesome. Come on.
I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.
I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.
I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.
You just wanted to get, I just want to do my time.
You just wanted to get, I just want to do my time.
You just wanted to get, I just want to do my time.
I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.
I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.
I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.
I never made it to my heart how far I was to New York.
I never made it to my heart how far I was to New York.
I never made it to my heart how far I was to New York.
And I think, you know, yeah, yeah. I think we bring back shame.
And I think, you know, yeah, yeah. I think we bring back shame.
And I think, you know, yeah, yeah. I think we bring back shame.
I saw that. He said, I kept waiting. I kept waiting for it to happen.
I saw that. He said, I kept waiting. I kept waiting for it to happen.
I saw that. He said, I kept waiting. I kept waiting for it to happen.
I mean, you look like a good guy, you know? Okay, I guess. I'd rather kill somebody.
I mean, you look like a good guy, you know? Okay, I guess. I'd rather kill somebody.
I mean, you look like a good guy, you know? Okay, I guess. I'd rather kill somebody.
Do you think that she's like- Is she still married to her?
Do you think that she's like- Is she still married to her?
Do you think that she's like- Is she still married to her?
What are you doing? What are you doing?
What are you doing? What are you doing?
What are you doing? What are you doing?
Yeah, this is your future if you keep this up.
Yeah, this is your future if you keep this up.
Yeah, this is your future if you keep this up.
You went to the school to find her?
You went to the school to find her?
You went to the school to find her?
So you went to community college and then you moved on to four-year college. You got your degree in accounting.
So you went to community college and then you moved on to four-year college. You got your degree in accounting.
So you went to community college and then you moved on to four-year college. You got your degree in accounting.
Is this like a raunchy strip club or like a nice, like a gentleman's club?
Is this like a raunchy strip club or like a nice, like a gentleman's club?
Is this like a raunchy strip club or like a nice, like a gentleman's club?
I'm assuming you're not bartending.
I'm assuming you're not bartending.
I'm assuming you're not bartending.
Oh, you were though. So the bar, Oh, I thought they were like trying to get you in there and then, Oh, no, that's later. No bartending jobs, but you could waitress. And then before you know it, you, the way you, the waitresses, if they look good enough, they within two or three weeks, they go, yeah, what am I doing?
Oh, you were though. So the bar, Oh, I thought they were like trying to get you in there and then, Oh, no, that's later. No bartending jobs, but you could waitress. And then before you know it, you, the way you, the waitresses, if they look good enough, they within two or three weeks, they go, yeah, what am I doing?
Oh, you were though. So the bar, Oh, I thought they were like trying to get you in there and then, Oh, no, that's later. No bartending jobs, but you could waitress. And then before you know it, you, the way you, the waitresses, if they look good enough, they within two or three weeks, they go, yeah, what am I doing?
Like this chick's counting out $800 a night and I'm bringing home 150, you know, what am I doing? So.
Like this chick's counting out $800 a night and I'm bringing home 150, you know, what am I doing? So.
Like this chick's counting out $800 a night and I'm bringing home 150, you know, what am I doing? So.
And how are you a bartender at 18?
And how are you a bartender at 18?
And how are you a bartender at 18?
I dated a chick that was a stripper for about three years, the whole time she went to college. And she would come home and be like, she would have like the girls that she thought were, you know, they were friendly. Some were more friendly than the others. And every once in a while, one would kind of pull her aside and say, listen. You know, they do the whole, listen, this guy over here.
I dated a chick that was a stripper for about three years, the whole time she went to college. And she would come home and be like, she would have like the girls that she thought were, you know, they were friendly. Some were more friendly than the others. And every once in a while, one would kind of pull her aside and say, listen. You know, they do the whole, listen, this guy over here.
I dated a chick that was a stripper for about three years, the whole time she went to college. And she would come home and be like, she would have like the girls that she thought were, you know, they were friendly. Some were more friendly than the others. And every once in a while, one would kind of pull her aside and say, listen. You know, they do the whole, listen, this guy over here.
You know what I'm saying? For this much money, you know, so you'll leave. And, you know, and she would be like, well, how do you even leave? And she'd go, no, no, no, the bouncer. So the bouncer's in on it.
You know what I'm saying? For this much money, you know, so you'll leave. And, you know, and she would be like, well, how do you even leave? And she'd go, no, no, no, the bouncer. So the bouncer's in on it.
You know what I'm saying? For this much money, you know, so you'll leave. And, you know, and she would be like, well, how do you even leave? And she'd go, no, no, no, the bouncer. So the bouncer's in on it.
Like they have all these rules. Like you can't accept a business card or a phone number. You can't give them your phone. Like if I see that, like they'll tell you if I see this. But then on the side. If a guy gives him $1,000, he'll let you go home early, walk you to your car, then you drive down the street, meet the guy at a hotel that he's got. You know what I mean?
Like they have all these rules. Like you can't accept a business card or a phone number. You can't give them your phone. Like if I see that, like they'll tell you if I see this. But then on the side. If a guy gives him $1,000, he'll let you go home early, walk you to your car, then you drive down the street, meet the guy at a hotel that he's got. You know what I mean?
Like they have all these rules. Like you can't accept a business card or a phone number. You can't give them your phone. Like if I see that, like they'll tell you if I see this. But then on the side. If a guy gives him $1,000, he'll let you go home early, walk you to your car, then you drive down the street, meet the guy at a hotel that he's got. You know what I mean?
So she said probably once every couple of months, somebody would go to her and say, listen, this guy over here. And she was like, wow. She's like, it's funny because they'll give you such a hard line.
So she said probably once every couple of months, somebody would go to her and say, listen, this guy over here. And she was like, wow. She's like, it's funny because they'll give you such a hard line.
So she said probably once every couple of months, somebody would go to her and say, listen, this guy over here. And she was like, wow. She's like, it's funny because they'll give you such a hard line.
into your face and to all the girls but behind the scenes the bouncers and the club managers are walking you out to your car to get into a car to drive down the street oh yeah and she and she was at a she worked at a scarlet uh cabaret whatever like it was a scarlet gentleman club it was like an upscale club this wasn't like mons venus this was and if it's happening there it's happening everywhere
into your face and to all the girls but behind the scenes the bouncers and the club managers are walking you out to your car to get into a car to drive down the street oh yeah and she and she was at a she worked at a scarlet uh cabaret whatever like it was a scarlet gentleman club it was like an upscale club this wasn't like mons venus this was and if it's happening there it's happening everywhere
into your face and to all the girls but behind the scenes the bouncers and the club managers are walking you out to your car to get into a car to drive down the street oh yeah and she and she was at a she worked at a scarlet uh cabaret whatever like it was a scarlet gentleman club it was like an upscale club this wasn't like mons venus this was and if it's happening there it's happening everywhere
There's a veneer of of legitimacy up front.
There's a veneer of of legitimacy up front.
There's a veneer of of legitimacy up front.
And that was like... Do you already know like most of his contact? Like have you already kind of been around? Like you've seen, you know, like, okay, we go, we meet. He gets out. He does this. He does that. He comes back. Like you already... Do you know where, what his, do you know who his plug is?
And that was like... Do you already know like most of his contact? Like have you already kind of been around? Like you've seen, you know, like, okay, we go, we meet. He gets out. He does this. He does that. He comes back. Like you already... Do you know where, what his, do you know who his plug is?
And that was like... Do you already know like most of his contact? Like have you already kind of been around? Like you've seen, you know, like, okay, we go, we meet. He gets out. He does this. He does that. He comes back. Like you already... Do you know where, what his, do you know who his plug is?
So what was that? Just small? Was it like you made 50 bucks, 200 bucks? Is it like you're?
So what was that? Just small? Was it like you made 50 bucks, 200 bucks? Is it like you're?
So what was that? Just small? Was it like you made 50 bucks, 200 bucks? Is it like you're?
And I said, that's that's iPhone. Yeah. You know, that's like their model is they charge double what they have in it. So if an iPhone costs 500 bucks, they're charging a thousand.
And I said, that's that's iPhone. Yeah. You know, that's like their model is they charge double what they have in it. So if an iPhone costs 500 bucks, they're charging a thousand.
And I said, that's that's iPhone. Yeah. You know, that's like their model is they charge double what they have in it. So if an iPhone costs 500 bucks, they're charging a thousand.
It's a lot less work, too.
It's a lot less work, too.
It's a lot less work, too.
But it's but it's illegal as opposed at least the club money was legal. You know, it may be in a gray area at times, but it's at least legal.
But it's but it's illegal as opposed at least the club money was legal. You know, it may be in a gray area at times, but it's at least legal.
But it's but it's illegal as opposed at least the club money was legal. You know, it may be in a gray area at times, but it's at least legal.
Nobody arrests dancers and sends them to prison for just for dancing.
Nobody arrests dancers and sends them to prison for just for dancing.
Nobody arrests dancers and sends them to prison for just for dancing.
So but anyway, but I hear you. You're young. You don't know. You're not thinking that way. You're thinking I'm going to get away with it, even though the boyfriend just got arrested. Right. You definitely know this is a possibility. Right.
So but anyway, but I hear you. You're young. You don't know. You're not thinking that way. You're thinking I'm going to get away with it, even though the boyfriend just got arrested. Right. You definitely know this is a possibility. Right.
So but anyway, but I hear you. You're young. You don't know. You're not thinking that way. You're thinking I'm going to get away with it, even though the boyfriend just got arrested. Right. You definitely know this is a possibility. Right.
Well, I think growing up in that environment, you see people going to prison. Like for me growing up, we knew in my neighborhood, which is like an upper middle class neighborhood, we knew, I knew of one person who'd gone to prison. He went to prison for three years for laundering money for the mob. And he went to prison. They didn't lose their house. Literally, this was our next-door neighbor.
Well, I think growing up in that environment, you see people going to prison. Like for me growing up, we knew in my neighborhood, which is like an upper middle class neighborhood, we knew, I knew of one person who'd gone to prison. He went to prison for three years for laundering money for the mob. And he went to prison. They didn't lose their house. Literally, this was our next-door neighbor.
Well, I think growing up in that environment, you see people going to prison. Like for me growing up, we knew in my neighborhood, which is like an upper middle class neighborhood, we knew, I knew of one person who'd gone to prison. He went to prison for three years for laundering money for the mob. And he went to prison. They didn't lose their house. Literally, this was our next-door neighbor.
The husband goes to prison. The wife never moves from the house. The kids stay in school. Three years later, I think he got three years, but I think he only did maybe a year or change. He gets out. He moves back in. And then probably shortly after that, they sold the house and went somewhere else. But yeah, so that was it.
The husband goes to prison. The wife never moves from the house. The kids stay in school. Three years later, I think he got three years, but I think he only did maybe a year or change. He gets out. He moves back in. And then probably shortly after that, they sold the house and went somewhere else. But yeah, so that was it.
The husband goes to prison. The wife never moves from the house. The kids stay in school. Three years later, I think he got three years, but I think he only did maybe a year or change. He gets out. He moves back in. And then probably shortly after that, they sold the house and went somewhere else. But yeah, so that was it.
As opposed to guys that grow up in a lower middle-class neighborhood, people are there watching people go to prison all the time and get back out and start over. They're driving. Everybody you know that has money
As opposed to guys that grow up in a lower middle-class neighborhood, people are there watching people go to prison all the time and get back out and start over. They're driving. Everybody you know that has money
As opposed to guys that grow up in a lower middle-class neighborhood, people are there watching people go to prison all the time and get back out and start over. They're driving. Everybody you know that has money
And this isn't I know you haven't said this, but this is what I get from it just from interviewing people is that you talk to these guys and they're like, look, everybody I know that's making money is selling drugs or robbing drug dealers or robbing banks or doing. But like the only people that have money, right.
And this isn't I know you haven't said this, but this is what I get from it just from interviewing people is that you talk to these guys and they're like, look, everybody I know that's making money is selling drugs or robbing drug dealers or robbing banks or doing. But like the only people that have money, right.
And this isn't I know you haven't said this, but this is what I get from it just from interviewing people is that you talk to these guys and they're like, look, everybody I know that's making money is selling drugs or robbing drug dealers or robbing banks or doing. But like the only people that have money, right.
The people that I see that are struggling and driving piece of garbage vehicles are people with jobs. because they have lower middle-class jobs. So they're barely able to keep a house over there, I mean, a roof over their head and feed their kids. So they have a crappy car and it's like, this guy struggles all the time, but the dealer over here, he's got a brand new car, this person.
The people that I see that are struggling and driving piece of garbage vehicles are people with jobs. because they have lower middle-class jobs. So they're barely able to keep a house over there, I mean, a roof over their head and feed their kids. So they have a crappy car and it's like, this guy struggles all the time, but the dealer over here, he's got a brand new car, this person.
The people that I see that are struggling and driving piece of garbage vehicles are people with jobs. because they have lower middle-class jobs. So they're barely able to keep a house over there, I mean, a roof over their head and feed their kids. So they have a crappy car and it's like, this guy struggles all the time, but the dealer over here, he's got a brand new car, this person.
So I can see how it's kind of there.
So I can see how it's kind of there.
So I can see how it's kind of there.
There's always an exception to the rule, but for the most part, yeah.
There's always an exception to the rule, but for the most part, yeah.
There's always an exception to the rule, but for the most part, yeah.
How long did he did? Had he been sentenced yet or did you know?
How long did he did? Had he been sentenced yet or did you know?
How long did he did? Had he been sentenced yet or did you know?
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The club. Well, the manager.
The club. Well, the manager.
The club. Well, the manager.
Did they gently knock on the door and ask you to step outside?
Did they gently knock on the door and ask you to step outside?
Did they gently knock on the door and ask you to step outside?
Well, I was going to say, can't that be personal use? But they already have you on tape.
Well, I was going to say, can't that be personal use? But they already have you on tape.
Well, I was going to say, can't that be personal use? But they already have you on tape.
They didn't need to catch you with anything.
They didn't need to catch you with anything.
They didn't need to catch you with anything.
What do you mean going on camera?
What do you mean going on camera?
What do you mean going on camera?
You're looking at 10 years. We're going to take your kids.
You're looking at 10 years. We're going to take your kids.
You're looking at 10 years. We're going to take your kids.
They're going to foster care.
They're going to foster care.
They're going to foster care.
When your name is going to keep coming up every time somebody gets into that room and they start cooperating, they're going to. Oh, yeah. Oh, and I know this chick. She used to be a dancer. She does this. She she's got the hookup. She's she dates this drug dealer and this one. So they hear that from three people. Then it's.
When your name is going to keep coming up every time somebody gets into that room and they start cooperating, they're going to. Oh, yeah. Oh, and I know this chick. She used to be a dancer. She does this. She she's got the hookup. She's she dates this drug dealer and this one. So they hear that from three people. Then it's.
When your name is going to keep coming up every time somebody gets into that room and they start cooperating, they're going to. Oh, yeah. Oh, and I know this chick. She used to be a dancer. She does this. She she's got the hookup. She's she dates this drug dealer and this one. So they hear that from three people. Then it's.
Yeah, for a little bit. For a little bit. At 19, a year seems like an eternity. Like that's way down the road. And I'll figure it out by that point. And I paid my lawyer enough. And plus, this guy's already said it's all his stuff. You're probably you might actually be good because.
Yeah, for a little bit. For a little bit. At 19, a year seems like an eternity. Like that's way down the road. And I'll figure it out by that point. And I paid my lawyer enough. And plus, this guy's already said it's all his stuff. You're probably you might actually be good because.
Yeah, for a little bit. For a little bit. At 19, a year seems like an eternity. Like that's way down the road. And I'll figure it out by that point. And I paid my lawyer enough. And plus, this guy's already said it's all his stuff. You're probably you might actually be good because.
I mean, the truth is, is a lot of times, even if they could have a lot of information, but they still probably don't want to go to trial if they know that somebody is going to get on the stand and say, that was all my stuff. Even if they have some stuff that points to you, you know, they're going to at least have there's a there's a much better chance you get found not guilty if you go to trial.
I mean, the truth is, is a lot of times, even if they could have a lot of information, but they still probably don't want to go to trial if they know that somebody is going to get on the stand and say, that was all my stuff. Even if they have some stuff that points to you, you know, they're going to at least have there's a there's a much better chance you get found not guilty if you go to trial.
I mean, the truth is, is a lot of times, even if they could have a lot of information, but they still probably don't want to go to trial if they know that somebody is going to get on the stand and say, that was all my stuff. Even if they have some stuff that points to you, you know, they're going to at least have there's a there's a much better chance you get found not guilty if you go to trial.
So it certainly weakened their case against you.
So it certainly weakened their case against you.
So it certainly weakened their case against you.
Had you considered maybe dating like an insurance salesman? I mean, why these guys? Why do you keep going for these guys?
Had you considered maybe dating like an insurance salesman? I mean, why these guys? Why do you keep going for these guys?
Had you considered maybe dating like an insurance salesman? I mean, why these guys? Why do you keep going for these guys?
Okay. So any of you are saying, sorry.
Okay. So any of you are saying, sorry.
Okay. So any of you are saying, sorry.
Six months. You said there was a six month span.
Six months. You said there was a six month span.
Six months. You said there was a six month span.
We don't need him. We don't need him backstage.
We don't need him. We don't need him backstage.
We don't need him. We don't need him backstage.
Did he get out of prison?
Did he get out of prison?
Did he get out of prison?
OK, you didn't you kind of skip through. I mean, did you say that that he got out and you didn't?
OK, you didn't you kind of skip through. I mean, did you say that that he got out and you didn't?
OK, you didn't you kind of skip through. I mean, did you say that that he got out and you didn't?
At some point, because I thought you were still writing him in jail.
At some point, because I thought you were still writing him in jail.
At some point, because I thought you were still writing him in jail.
Okay. But he didn't wear a wire and set you up. He just said, hey, this is what's going on over here. You need to check her out.
Okay. But he didn't wear a wire and set you up. He just said, hey, this is what's going on over here. You need to check her out.
Okay. But he didn't wear a wire and set you up. He just said, hey, this is what's going on over here. You need to check her out.
Right. Yeah. Just jealousy or anger or whatever.
Right. Yeah. Just jealousy or anger or whatever.
Right. Yeah. Just jealousy or anger or whatever.
Okay. So he had given you up. You got raided. You're in the police station. What did they grab? I mean, you cut the one dude loose. What did they have on you, though, at this point?
Okay. So he had given you up. You got raided. You're in the police station. What did they grab? I mean, you cut the one dude loose. What did they have on you, though, at this point?
Okay. So he had given you up. You got raided. You're in the police station. What did they grab? I mean, you cut the one dude loose. What did they have on you, though, at this point?
What is DIFUS? What is that?
What is DIFUS? What is that?
What is DIFUS? What is that?
They can't take custody away from somebody who doesn't have custody.
They can't take custody away from somebody who doesn't have custody.
They can't take custody away from somebody who doesn't have custody.
Yeah. They at least don't have to spend three months or six months in foster care while you're trying to give custody over and they're trying to get permission.
Yeah. They at least don't have to spend three months or six months in foster care while you're trying to give custody over and they're trying to get permission.
Yeah. They at least don't have to spend three months or six months in foster care while you're trying to give custody over and they're trying to get permission.
So you're under stress. You're fighting two cases. Do you continue to sell or you continue to sell or you went out and got a regular job?
So you're under stress. You're fighting two cases. Do you continue to sell or you continue to sell or you went out and got a regular job?
So you're under stress. You're fighting two cases. Do you continue to sell or you continue to sell or you went out and got a regular job?
Not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. There was a little.
Not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. There was a little.
Not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. There was a little.
The old what was it was was being sure to call it the the Irish police. Irish jewelry or something. He's got a name for an ankle monitor. The old Irish anklet or something like that.
The old what was it was was being sure to call it the the Irish police. Irish jewelry or something. He's got a name for an ankle monitor. The old Irish anklet or something like that.
The old what was it was was being sure to call it the the Irish police. Irish jewelry or something. He's got a name for an ankle monitor. The old Irish anklet or something like that.
Whoa. I hate to interrupt the podcast, but I need your help. Have you been or do you know anyone that has been arrested in Polk County? If you have... please contact me. We are desperately looking for guests that have been arrested in Polk County by Grady Judd. The last video we did actually got a million views.
Whoa. I hate to interrupt the podcast, but I need your help. Have you been or do you know anyone that has been arrested in Polk County? If you have... please contact me. We are desperately looking for guests that have been arrested in Polk County by Grady Judd. The last video we did actually got a million views.
Whoa. I hate to interrupt the podcast, but I need your help. Have you been or do you know anyone that has been arrested in Polk County? If you have... please contact me. We are desperately looking for guests that have been arrested in Polk County by Grady Judd. The last video we did actually got a million views.
If you've been arrested, please go in the description box, either contact me directly, my email's there, or you can fill out the form that we've got. There's a link to the form. My email address is there. You fill out the form or email me. We will contact you and we're going to try and get you on the program.
If you've been arrested, please go in the description box, either contact me directly, my email's there, or you can fill out the form that we've got. There's a link to the form. My email address is there. You fill out the form or email me. We will contact you and we're going to try and get you on the program.
If you've been arrested, please go in the description box, either contact me directly, my email's there, or you can fill out the form that we've got. There's a link to the form. My email address is there. You fill out the form or email me. We will contact you and we're going to try and get you on the program.
It was funny is like after 12 years, they catch him now, like he'll probably get almost no time. You know, it's funny because you would think going on the run like, oh, that doesn't help you at all. Sometimes it does. Like if it's long enough, if it's long enough, they're like, this was 20 years ago. Like, you know, what's this charge?
It was funny is like after 12 years, they catch him now, like he'll probably get almost no time. You know, it's funny because you would think going on the run like, oh, that doesn't help you at all. Sometimes it does. Like if it's long enough, if it's long enough, they're like, this was 20 years ago. Like, you know, what's this charge?
It was funny is like after 12 years, they catch him now, like he'll probably get almost no time. You know, it's funny because you would think going on the run like, oh, that doesn't help you at all. Sometimes it does. Like if it's long enough, if it's long enough, they're like, this was 20 years ago. Like, you know, what's this charge?
You know, like at the time they might have given you 10 years, but now they're going to be like. Give this guy 18 months, you know, put him on what's going on. He's, you know, but anyway, so.
You know, like at the time they might have given you 10 years, but now they're going to be like. Give this guy 18 months, you know, put him on what's going on. He's, you know, but anyway, so.
You know, like at the time they might have given you 10 years, but now they're going to be like. Give this guy 18 months, you know, put him on what's going on. He's, you know, but anyway, so.
Do you ever see him around?
Do you ever see him around?
Do you ever see him around?
How much time did you get?
How much time did you get?
How much time did you get?
So you're doing 18 months no matter what. No matter what.
So you're doing 18 months no matter what. No matter what.
So you're doing 18 months no matter what. No matter what.
Wow. Okay. That's an incentive to behave.
Wow. Okay. That's an incentive to behave.
Wow. Okay. That's an incentive to behave.
Right. I shouldn't have a problem.
Right. I shouldn't have a problem.
Right. I shouldn't have a problem.
Wait, what did they call him? Oh, my wife, because she was locked up too. They call him a stud.
Wait, what did they call him? Oh, my wife, because she was locked up too. They call him a stud.
Wait, what did they call him? Oh, my wife, because she was locked up too. They call him a stud.
She called him a stud. She's like, she was a stud. I'm like, okay, I don't know what that means, but.
She called him a stud. She's like, she was a stud. I'm like, okay, I don't know what that means, but.
She called him a stud. She's like, she was a stud. I'm like, okay, I don't know what that means, but.
However, given... I think most women are two drinks away from a girl-on-girl adventure, for the most part. I could be wrong.
However, given... I think most women are two drinks away from a girl-on-girl adventure, for the most part. I could be wrong.
However, given... I think most women are two drinks away from a girl-on-girl adventure, for the most part. I could be wrong.
So you're in that environment.
So you're in that environment.
So you're in that environment.
What do you mean leave? Like escape?
What do you mean leave? Like escape?
What do you mean leave? Like escape?
What were you thinking was going to happen?
What were you thinking was going to happen?
What were you thinking was going to happen?
Right. How many people am I breaking out of prison?
Right. How many people am I breaking out of prison?
Right. How many people am I breaking out of prison?
Because I thought nobody would be this dumb.
Because I thought nobody would be this dumb.
Because I thought nobody would be this dumb.
What is the fiance saying at all?
What is the fiance saying at all?
What is the fiance saying at all?
And if it was a minimum security, there was no fence. Like, right. More like absconding.
And if it was a minimum security, there was no fence. Like, right. More like absconding.
And if it was a minimum security, there was no fence. Like, right. More like absconding.
Yeah. Yeah. It's like some people say like the halfway houses is worse than prison because you're right there in the middle of the city. Your family's two miles away. You know, you're able to leave and go to work, but you can't go to lunch or dinner. You can't go like your family can't come see you at the right. You know, so every halfway house is different. Right.
Yeah. Yeah. It's like some people say like the halfway houses is worse than prison because you're right there in the middle of the city. Your family's two miles away. You know, you're able to leave and go to work, but you can't go to lunch or dinner. You can't go like your family can't come see you at the right. You know, so every halfway house is different. Right.
Yeah. Yeah. It's like some people say like the halfway houses is worse than prison because you're right there in the middle of the city. Your family's two miles away. You know, you're able to leave and go to work, but you can't go to lunch or dinner. You can't go like your family can't come see you at the right. You know, so every halfway house is different. Right.
Exactly. It's so overwhelming. Like, you know, guys will get in trouble for, you know, oh, I'm going to walk to the bank.
Exactly. It's so overwhelming. Like, you know, guys will get in trouble for, you know, oh, I'm going to walk to the bank.
Exactly. It's so overwhelming. Like, you know, guys will get in trouble for, you know, oh, I'm going to walk to the bank.
They don't go to the bank. Yeah, well, they'll go or they'll go in the parking lot and have their girlfriend meet them in the parking lot. They have sex in the parking lot or whatever. And then they walk. And then she had an ankle monitor on and the guy in the halfway house is like, yeah, well, the bank's here. Here's a sidewalk. You went here.
They don't go to the bank. Yeah, well, they'll go or they'll go in the parking lot and have their girlfriend meet them in the parking lot. They have sex in the parking lot or whatever. And then they walk. And then she had an ankle monitor on and the guy in the halfway house is like, yeah, well, the bank's here. Here's a sidewalk. You went here.
They don't go to the bank. Yeah, well, they'll go or they'll go in the parking lot and have their girlfriend meet them in the parking lot. They have sex in the parking lot or whatever. And then they walk. And then she had an ankle monitor on and the guy in the halfway house is like, yeah, well, the bank's here. Here's a sidewalk. You went here.
for 20 minutes and then you went to the bank you didn't go to the bank but yeah we're violating you but you know you don't know this isn't a court of law bro i don't have to know what you did i do know what you did i'm to prove this to anybody i have 100 control i mean so there's just all these horrible um uh you know that that that uh
for 20 minutes and then you went to the bank you didn't go to the bank but yeah we're violating you but you know you don't know this isn't a court of law bro i don't have to know what you did i do know what you did i'm to prove this to anybody i have 100 control i mean so there's just all these horrible um uh you know that that that uh
for 20 minutes and then you went to the bank you didn't go to the bank but yeah we're violating you but you know you don't know this isn't a court of law bro i don't have to know what you did i do know what you did i'm to prove this to anybody i have 100 control i mean so there's just all these horrible um uh you know that that that uh
Temptation that's there and people just can't.
Temptation that's there and people just can't.
Temptation that's there and people just can't.
No, no. I think it's funny. I think we should be pulled together.
No, no. I think it's funny. I think we should be pulled together.
No, no. I think it's funny. I think we should be pulled together.
Did you ever see that? It was like a Survivor episode. Did you ever see the one where they did? It wasn't. I don't think it was Survivor, but it was a Survivor type show. And they took all the women and they put them on one island and they basically had to. catch food, they'd get water and catch food and be able to basically survive for supposed to be for like a week or something.
Did you ever see that? It was like a Survivor episode. Did you ever see the one where they did? It wasn't. I don't think it was Survivor, but it was a Survivor type show. And they took all the women and they put them on one island and they basically had to. catch food, they'd get water and catch food and be able to basically survive for supposed to be for like a week or something.
Did you ever see that? It was like a Survivor episode. Did you ever see the one where they did? It wasn't. I don't think it was Survivor, but it was a Survivor type show. And they took all the women and they put them on one island and they basically had to. catch food, they'd get water and catch food and be able to basically survive for supposed to be for like a week or something.
And they put a bunch of men on another island. Remember, by the end of the first day, the women are at each other's throat. And then if
And they put a bunch of men on another island. Remember, by the end of the first day, the women are at each other's throat. And then if
And they put a bunch of men on another island. Remember, by the end of the first day, the women are at each other's throat. And then if
you look at the men the men have they've got clean water they've they figured out how to fish how to lay traps how to and they're and they're like super supportive of each other and they're like the whole time they're laughing and joking these women are melting down they're crying they're they're called they're they're plotting against each other they're calling each other name and it's like they're in each other's throats and these guys are like
you look at the men the men have they've got clean water they've they figured out how to fish how to lay traps how to and they're and they're like super supportive of each other and they're like the whole time they're laughing and joking these women are melting down they're crying they're they're called they're they're plotting against each other they're calling each other name and it's like they're in each other's throats and these guys are like
you look at the men the men have they've got clean water they've they figured out how to fish how to lay traps how to and they're and they're like super supportive of each other and they're like the whole time they're laughing and joking these women are melting down they're crying they're they're called they're they're plotting against each other they're calling each other name and it's like they're in each other's throats and these guys are like
You know, they're they're playing like, you know, they're jumping on each other, you know, play fighting and joking. It is it honestly. But with the first day they have to be rescued. They're like, that's it.
You know, they're they're playing like, you know, they're jumping on each other, you know, play fighting and joking. It is it honestly. But with the first day they have to be rescued. They're like, that's it.
You know, they're they're playing like, you know, they're jumping on each other, you know, play fighting and joking. It is it honestly. But with the first day they have to be rescued. They're like, that's it.
Oh, prison's horrible. Oh, my God.
Oh, prison's horrible. Oh, my God.
Oh, prison's horrible. Oh, my God.
Prison is the first time that now I had heard, you know, you hear people like, oh, he's jealous or, you know, and I'd seen like a little bit of behavior in people where it seemed like, well, you're being like slightly irrational. Right. But you couldn't really peg it down to maybe this person is just genuinely just jealous of another human being.
Prison is the first time that now I had heard, you know, you hear people like, oh, he's jealous or, you know, and I'd seen like a little bit of behavior in people where it seemed like, well, you're being like slightly irrational. Right. But you couldn't really peg it down to maybe this person is just genuinely just jealous of another human being.
Prison is the first time that now I had heard, you know, you hear people like, oh, he's jealous or, you know, and I'd seen like a little bit of behavior in people where it seemed like, well, you're being like slightly irrational. Right. But you couldn't really peg it down to maybe this person is just genuinely just jealous of another human being.
When I went to prison, you know, you are so confined and it's such a you get to know someone so quick because you have to spend so much time with them. But I never I've never seen people just be outright jealous of another person, which seems like such a childish emotion. It's so ugly. They talk about each other and you're like.
When I went to prison, you know, you are so confined and it's such a you get to know someone so quick because you have to spend so much time with them. But I never I've never seen people just be outright jealous of another person, which seems like such a childish emotion. It's so ugly. They talk about each other and you're like.
When I went to prison, you know, you are so confined and it's such a you get to know someone so quick because you have to spend so much time with them. But I never I've never seen people just be outright jealous of another person, which seems like such a childish emotion. It's so ugly. They talk about each other and you're like.
This guy's done nothing to you, but you're kind of boils down to, you know, the only thing that makes sense to why you're saying these things and making things up about this person is you're jealous of him because he has something going on and he's working on this and he's got something to go home to. And he's made better decisions while he was in here and while he was out.
This guy's done nothing to you, but you're kind of boils down to, you know, the only thing that makes sense to why you're saying these things and making things up about this person is you're jealous of him because he has something going on and he's working on this and he's got something to go home to. And he's made better decisions while he was in here and while he was out.
This guy's done nothing to you, but you're kind of boils down to, you know, the only thing that makes sense to why you're saying these things and making things up about this person is you're jealous of him because he has something going on and he's working on this and he's got something to go home to. And he's made better decisions while he was in here and while he was out.
And you're just a bitter, jealous human being like that. You know, or just, you know, mental illness that you don't pick up on the outside world unless you live with someone.
And you're just a bitter, jealous human being like that. You know, or just, you know, mental illness that you don't pick up on the outside world unless you live with someone.
And you're just a bitter, jealous human being like that. You know, or just, you know, mental illness that you don't pick up on the outside world unless you live with someone.
From a distance, you know, you don't notice it as much as if it's the guy in the cell next to you. And you're like, oh, wow, you're doing something not right. Yeah.
From a distance, you know, you don't notice it as much as if it's the guy in the cell next to you. And you're like, oh, wow, you're doing something not right. Yeah.
From a distance, you know, you don't notice it as much as if it's the guy in the cell next to you. And you're like, oh, wow, you're doing something not right. Yeah.
How quickly did that happen?
How quickly did that happen?
How quickly did that happen?
At least they gave you 30 days. Like, that's a bonus.
At least they gave you 30 days. Like, that's a bonus.
At least they gave you 30 days. Like, that's a bonus.
Because if you walk in the door and tell them that. They're going to be like, yeah, well, thanks for coming by.
Because if you walk in the door and tell them that. They're going to be like, yeah, well, thanks for coming by.
Because if you walk in the door and tell them that. They're going to be like, yeah, well, thanks for coming by.
But at least 30 days, they're like, after 30 days, they're like, nah, this is a good employee.
But at least 30 days, they're like, after 30 days, they're like, nah, this is a good employee.
But at least 30 days, they're like, after 30 days, they're like, nah, this is a good employee.
Right. And what happened?
Right. And what happened?
Right. And what happened?
That's probably not the message you want to be pitching. But anyway.
That's probably not the message you want to be pitching. But anyway.
That's probably not the message you want to be pitching. But anyway.
You want to be an engineer or something.
You want to be an engineer or something.
You want to be an engineer or something.
Yeah, I was going to say, we interviewed a woman who, that's all she does. They get outrageous money.
Yeah, I was going to say, we interviewed a woman who, that's all she does. They get outrageous money.
Yeah, I was going to say, we interviewed a woman who, that's all she does. They get outrageous money.
Are you at the point now where you're just it's just managing people?
Are you at the point now where you're just it's just managing people?
Are you at the point now where you're just it's just managing people?
And I was going to say, do you focus more on service businesses? Because it's the easiest thing to open.
And I was going to say, do you focus more on service businesses? Because it's the easiest thing to open.
And I was going to say, do you focus more on service businesses? Because it's the easiest thing to open.
um i don't know what i was watching where the guy was saying like you have a leg up if you have a story doesn't even matter if the story has anything to do with what you're pitching or you're selling you actually have a leg up because you at least have you have a story to tell people to sell them on you uh and um yeah so i was gonna say uh Like, how do you get clients? How do you get customers?
um i don't know what i was watching where the guy was saying like you have a leg up if you have a story doesn't even matter if the story has anything to do with what you're pitching or you're selling you actually have a leg up because you at least have you have a story to tell people to sell them on you uh and um yeah so i was gonna say uh Like, how do you get clients? How do you get customers?
um i don't know what i was watching where the guy was saying like you have a leg up if you have a story doesn't even matter if the story has anything to do with what you're pitching or you're selling you actually have a leg up because you at least have you have a story to tell people to sell them on you uh and um yeah so i was gonna say uh Like, how do you get clients? How do you get customers?
Not from YouTube. I mean, for the business.
Not from YouTube. I mean, for the business.
Not from YouTube. I mean, for the business.
Well, I think most most service oriented businesses make you can make a lot of money fairly quickly and most of them fail because of mismanagement. People get, you know, people start getting they get two hundred fifty dollars and they think that's all profit. No, it's not.
Well, I think most most service oriented businesses make you can make a lot of money fairly quickly and most of them fail because of mismanagement. People get, you know, people start getting they get two hundred fifty dollars and they think that's all profit. No, it's not.
Well, I think most most service oriented businesses make you can make a lot of money fairly quickly and most of them fail because of mismanagement. People get, you know, people start getting they get two hundred fifty dollars and they think that's all profit. No, it's not.
They're still Uncle Sam. They're still overhead. They're still you know, you just start trimming it down to start. But you usually know that that usually buries people and they fail as a result or or you get to that point where you start to figure it out before it's too late. And or of course, if you have some business sense, then you kind of go in knowing, OK, we're going to put this aside.
They're still Uncle Sam. They're still overhead. They're still you know, you just start trimming it down to start. But you usually know that that usually buries people and they fail as a result or or you get to that point where you start to figure it out before it's too late. And or of course, if you have some business sense, then you kind of go in knowing, OK, we're going to put this aside.
They're still Uncle Sam. They're still overhead. They're still you know, you just start trimming it down to start. But you usually know that that usually buries people and they fail as a result or or you get to that point where you start to figure it out before it's too late. And or of course, if you have some business sense, then you kind of go in knowing, OK, we're going to put this aside.
This is my profit, you know, and and you have that cushion. But. And yeah, service oriented businesses are great, especially to start off if you're getting out of prison and you feel like you can't get hired.
This is my profit, you know, and and you have that cushion. But. And yeah, service oriented businesses are great, especially to start off if you're getting out of prison and you feel like you can't get hired.
This is my profit, you know, and and you have that cushion. But. And yeah, service oriented businesses are great, especially to start off if you're getting out of prison and you feel like you can't get hired.
I was going to say the other thing is I think a lot of people feel like you feel the whole time you were in there. And the same way I felt. Who's hiring me? nobody's hiring me. But the truth is people will hire you. Is it harder? You can get a job. Is it harder? Yes. Are you going to get a job as a CEO of a company? No, that's not happening right away.
I was going to say the other thing is I think a lot of people feel like you feel the whole time you were in there. And the same way I felt. Who's hiring me? nobody's hiring me. But the truth is people will hire you. Is it harder? You can get a job. Is it harder? Yes. Are you going to get a job as a CEO of a company? No, that's not happening right away.
I was going to say the other thing is I think a lot of people feel like you feel the whole time you were in there. And the same way I felt. Who's hiring me? nobody's hiring me. But the truth is people will hire you. Is it harder? You can get a job. Is it harder? Yes. Are you going to get a job as a CEO of a company? No, that's not happening right away.
You know, like you're going to have to start at the bottom, but you can find someplace to work. But that's how I felt when I left. I was like, what do I do now? I was thinking McDonald's.
You know, like you're going to have to start at the bottom, but you can find someplace to work. But that's how I felt when I left. I was like, what do I do now? I was thinking McDonald's.
You know, like you're going to have to start at the bottom, but you can find someplace to work. But that's how I felt when I left. I was like, what do I do now? I was thinking McDonald's.
No, they're not. It's definitely not about rehabilitation.
No, they're not. It's definitely not about rehabilitation.
No, they're not. It's definitely not about rehabilitation.
Just jumping back to the book. You basically have already written the book. Like you just did a two-hour podcast. That really laid it out right there. You know, that is your book. It may not be. That's probably only 60 pages. Right. But you could take that and then just expand on anything you want to expand on.
Just jumping back to the book. You basically have already written the book. Like you just did a two-hour podcast. That really laid it out right there. You know, that is your book. It may not be. That's probably only 60 pages. Right. But you could take that and then just expand on anything you want to expand on.
Just jumping back to the book. You basically have already written the book. Like you just did a two-hour podcast. That really laid it out right there. You know, that is your book. It may not be. That's probably only 60 pages. Right. But you could take that and then just expand on anything you want to expand on.
And other than that, you told a story great, other than the fact that you didn't mention the boyfriend got out of prison and wanted his business back. Oh, right, right. And, you know, that was out of sequence. Other than that, that was it was told very well. You know, you just have to you might have to expand on a few spots. Right. Oh, for sure. Other than that, you basically just written a book.
And other than that, you told a story great, other than the fact that you didn't mention the boyfriend got out of prison and wanted his business back. Oh, right, right. And, you know, that was out of sequence. Other than that, that was it was told very well. You know, you just have to you might have to expand on a few spots. Right. Oh, for sure. Other than that, you basically just written a book.
And other than that, you told a story great, other than the fact that you didn't mention the boyfriend got out of prison and wanted his business back. Oh, right, right. And, you know, that was out of sequence. Other than that, that was it was told very well. You know, you just have to you might have to expand on a few spots. Right. Oh, for sure. Other than that, you basically just written a book.
You could take the transcript. You could take the audio to this, drop it in a train and a train. One of those things does the transcripts. Take it and pop it into word and then just find places that you want to expand on and blow it up. You probably have a book in a month.
You could take the transcript. You could take the audio to this, drop it in a train and a train. One of those things does the transcripts. Take it and pop it into word and then just find places that you want to expand on and blow it up. You probably have a book in a month.
You could take the transcript. You could take the audio to this, drop it in a train and a train. One of those things does the transcripts. Take it and pop it into word and then just find places that you want to expand on and blow it up. You probably have a book in a month.
So we have a video the other day we did. It was like four hours and we trimmed it down to like an hour and 45 minutes. But the full video will be on Patreon. Plus we've got before and after stuff that goes on there too. So if you like the videos, you want a little bit extra, please consider joining Patreon. And it really helps Colby and I make these videos.
So we have a video the other day we did. It was like four hours and we trimmed it down to like an hour and 45 minutes. But the full video will be on Patreon. Plus we've got before and after stuff that goes on there too. So if you like the videos, you want a little bit extra, please consider joining Patreon. And it really helps Colby and I make these videos.
So we have a video the other day we did. It was like four hours and we trimmed it down to like an hour and 45 minutes. But the full video will be on Patreon. Plus we've got before and after stuff that goes on there too. So if you like the videos, you want a little bit extra, please consider joining Patreon. And it really helps Colby and I make these videos.
We're going to leave all of Carolyn's social media links in the description box. So please go there. Click on our YouTube channel, go there, subscribe, follow everything else. If you want to get in touch with her, all of her stuff and contact information will be in the description box. Really appreciate you guys doing that. So thank you very much. See ya.
We're going to leave all of Carolyn's social media links in the description box. So please go there. Click on our YouTube channel, go there, subscribe, follow everything else. If you want to get in touch with her, all of her stuff and contact information will be in the description box. Really appreciate you guys doing that. So thank you very much. See ya.
We're going to leave all of Carolyn's social media links in the description box. So please go there. Click on our YouTube channel, go there, subscribe, follow everything else. If you want to get in touch with her, all of her stuff and contact information will be in the description box. Really appreciate you guys doing that. So thank you very much. See ya.