Matt Jones
Appearances
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Hi, everybody. Welcome to episode two of the Matt Jones Show. Thank you guys very much for making episode one and the show successful. You can subscribe on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube. It's been wonderful to get the response. This is what we were hoping for. So every week, we're going to do two episodes, one of which will air on radio in Kentucky, and then the other of which will be on here.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
What was that series where they used to just randomly assign them the cars? Yeah. What was that called? They'd bring people from all the different organizations and it would be on ESPN. IROC.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Live and golf. I think they've done – Exactly right. To a smaller version, I think they've done the same thing.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Yeah, USC and UCLA to the Big Ten I think was a huge mistake. Well, let's just switch. I'll come back to NASCAR in a second. Let's just take this line of thought, and I want to see what you think of this. This is my thesis about college football and basketball.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
College basketball, I think NIL and the transfer portal have actually oddly helped because it has made it to where a lot more teams are good. Because guys are staying longer, the level of play is higher. I think the last year in college basketball, especially in the SEC, is the best it's ever been, in my opinion. So I actually think it has oddly really helped college basketball.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Now, college football, I think, is different because it has so many players and it has so many things you have to deal with. I think it has made it... people turn off the college football from January to September. But yet when the games start, I still think everybody's back all in. The ratings were high. I thought the quality of play was good.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
So while I think it's been universally a positive for college basketball, I kind of have mixed emotions about it for college football. What do you think?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
That's true. There's a rhythm to the sports calendar all year. We kind of know what's supposed to happen every year. And then when you mess that up, that's an interesting point.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
When I went to law school and I was going to Duke, it wasn't like I was going up in the Northeast. My professor said to me, you need to work on your voice or all of those folks will think you're dumb. And I actually thought that was bad advice because I thought the voice kind of helped. People underestimate you, Ryan, and then you can prove them wrong.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
I'm going to give you a few arguments that I make on my show about college sports and see if you agree or disagree. So one was the one I just made. The second one is there was this worry with the portal. Oh no, parity's going to go away. A few teams are going to load up. And I actually kind of bought that, but I actually now think the opposite is happening, at least in football.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Basketball's slightly different. But in football... Dudes don't want to stay and be second team at Georgia and Alabama. They'd rather go to Kentucky and South Carolina and start. And it's actually made it to, especially as the season goes on where injuries come into play, it has actually added some parity. Do you agree with that?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And his brother, who's annoying, but still gets a lot of attention.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Yeah, I do too. I think the contracts will be an interesting adjustment to it. But I would look at all these sports and say, isn't it good for football that the Indiana game mattered last year, whereas it would not have mattered? The playoff made me care about games that I didn't care about before. I go to basketball, and when the tournament starts, now St. John's matters again.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And that hasn't happened in a long time. And then you go to baseball, and Kentucky had never made the College World Series, year. I think it just makes more people be interested in the sport, right?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
I mean, I watched Boise State play Nevada in that last game because I wanted to see if they would make the playoff. And, you know, Kentucky was bad last year, but I went in. There's a video I get mocked about a lot on the line. But I started the season and I go, you know, there's a path for Kentucky to go to the playoff. Go 9-3. These are the games they could win.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
I would have never had that conversation before. It's nice just to have that possibility out there.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Because a lot of them came from working at those schools, right? It's kind of like the WWE. The WWE, we all know it's fake. But there are people who think they screw up when they just acknowledge it outright. Like, let us live in this fantasy world. Don't make it to where you essentially say this is fake, which sometimes I think they walk the line of doing. Now, I see you're a Tennessee guy.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
You got a Tennessee Vols helmet there behind you. There is... Maybe you know more about it than me, but I've been struck at how little has been reported about this state law in Tennessee that they just passed basically saying, hey, Tennessee doesn't have to follow any of the NCAA rules.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And then Ross Dellinger reported that the conferences are coming together and going to make all the schools sign something that says you follow our rules or you're gone. Is that something that could happen or is that just bluster?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
So you think that will happen? You think they will pass federal laws on NIL and stuff? They should, but you think they will?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
You needed to be rescued by them or something like that. Yeah, that's it. I like that. Well, so I have a lot of stuff I want to talk to you about. But real quick on being Southern and on ESPN, I joke. We're on ESPN Radio. You do Marty and McGee, and I do Matt and Myron. Did you know we're the two longest-running ESPN Radio shows now? Did you know that?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
They're tired of it. Corey Booker and Ted Cruz are going to decide the future of college sports.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Yeah, I actually really like that. All right, so one of the things that people want to hear about is when you know people in actuality. So I'm going to ask you a couple questions, and I want you to give me the name that comes to your mind first when you say this. All right, let's talk coaches first. Who is, in your mind, the nicest coach that you've dealt with?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
If you're just saying as a human being, the nicest coach.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
You think that keeps him an extra year at Arkansas? It's hard to fire a nice guy. We had that issue with Tubby at Kentucky. It's tough.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Because I find him – see, from afar, he seems like the worst. But is he not?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
All right, so this one you may not want to answer, but which one is the least nice? I'm not going to say a jerk, but, you know, I've seen you.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
No self-help person, especially when they need help. Funniest coach. Who makes you laugh the most?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And you were in Pullman, which is like the word Pullman. Well, he was really into politics, wasn't he?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
I dated a woman who he knew, and one time – he was calling to check on the person to just see how she was doing. And he said, she said, I'm with so-and-so. And he said, let me hand him the phone. And I did not know Mike handed me the phone. And he said, I hear you're a good guy, but if you ever screw up, you're going to wish you didn't. And then that was it. That was the other conversation.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
That was, that's my only time ever interacting with Mike Leach. So, you know, at least he, he had that. Do you, you mentioned the politics thing. I, I'm always fascinated by somebody who works in college sports, especially in football, but it would also be true in basketball.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
These coaches are dealing with groups of players, often young African-American men, that come from families that would tend to lean to the left, generally speaking. And a lot of coaches, if not all, but a lot, tend to lean the other way politically.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
In times like this where it seems like that's so much more a part of the culture than it was when you and I were kids, I didn't know what people were growing up. Do you think that ever comes into play or just like they just put it all aside and play? It's sports.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And we'll put both episodes on the podcast feed. But really, there'll be one that is kind of podcast only, and we're going to start this one with an old friend of mine, Ryan McGee. He's done writing for ESPN for a long time, used to work on RPM Tonight. He covers college football and auto racing. More importantly, a smart guy with good Southern North Carolina roots.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Well, I hope we haven't lost that because I agree with you. That is feels like we have. You know, it does. Although I do wonder when the cameras are off, if they're still doing it. There's a part of me that thinks there's a guy here in Kentucky that's a representative. Jamie Comer is very right wing.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And he told me once that AOC, who's very left wing, they were on a committee together and he talked about how much they liked each other. And I remember thinking, and then I saw him the next day, and he went on TV, and he blasted her. And I was thinking, you just told me the day before that you liked her. And that annoyed me in some ways.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
See, I think more reasonable people like you should talk about this stuff because you are more like most Americans than the people we hear on TV. Let me ask you about a completely opposite end of the serious spectrum. You are in the state of,
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
I admit to being not proud of myself for how much I enjoy the Belichick story, but I am pretty – but I can't – I mean, when I saw he renamed his boat, like I can't help but want to talk about it. What do you think? I mean, you've been around North Carolina football, and now this whole thing has plopped in, and you talk to college football coaches who also have to have opinions on it.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
But what are those all those old guys that wear that I see at UNC basketball games that dress, you know, in the in the quarter zips and they wear that? What do you think they think about this circus? Because because UNC is not a circus place. They're a place that takes themselves seriously as an academic institution, as they think of themselves as classy and cultural.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
but you're interested in the story like it's a good story guys in carolina blue and bring up the girlfriend because so you are interested in it like don't don't oh yeah okay because we have a mutual friend bomani i had him on we talked about how interested we were in it don't make us feel alone in this you know no no no and bomani bomani was a triangle guy like me i grew up raleigh yes so it
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
I mean, he went to the Holiday Inn Express in Portland, Maine for the Miss Maine contest. I mean, Ryan, come on. Come on. That's one of the craziest things of all time.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
How could they not have done the reality show? I would watch every episode of the reality show. She can even be a producer. What do I care?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
The Secret Lives of Mormon. Was that good? I watched one episode and I tapped out. Did you get through all of it?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Well, they had that girl from Kentucky. She was on there the first few years. She was great. All right, before I let you go, the NASCAR thing real quick. We've had long conversations about what NASCAR can do, what they can't do, their problems they've had, et cetera. Is NASCAR in 2025 upswing or downswing?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Was that the peak I was just sitting here talking with Billy about? I said the peak was like 96 to 2003. Is that kind of what you think was the peak?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Most powerful moment for me as a sports fan outside of my team, so outside of the Kentucky wins, the 85 Bears, et cetera, I would say Earnhardt dying is the most powerful moment of my sports fan life. Would you agree with that?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
You're 2015. We started in 2018. And not only are we the two longest, we're the only shows that have survived COVID, right? Which is crazy. Shows you how much turnover is in that business. And it's interesting. It really has changed because when we started – You guys, I thought, were the only people doing like a personality based, not just sports thing.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
That is amazing. And they had a bunch of them leading up to it, like Kenny Irwin.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Yeah, good stuff. Ryan, thank you very much, and we appreciate your time.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And then the first after a couple of years, I tried to do it. I didn't feel comfortable doing that the first time because I thought they wanted me to be football guy. And now it feels like everyone's trying to do that.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
But you guys, I do appreciate this, and I thank you for this. My first handful of episodes on ESPN were on your show. You guys would be gone. It would usually be around Derby or Preakness or something, and they'd have me on. The worst episode of radio I've ever done in my life was on your show, which was the very first one with Nicole Briscoe, who couldn't have been worse to me.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
I won't make you comment on that. But after that, I usually worked with you when Marty was at horse races, and that's what ended up getting me the job. So I always have appreciated it.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
I think it's great to have the little bit of Southern culture we bring to Bristol. And this is a big weekend for you. You do a lot of college football, a lot of auto racing. So this is the, this, you said to me, this is May for college basketball people. That's what we would say. This is March.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And there's not a lot of us in sports media, actually, from the South. Worked with him on ESPN, and he actually put me – on the radio for my first time with ESPN. So we talked to him a little bit earlier today, and it's a big week with all the motorsports on Memorial Day. So we'll check it out. And then on episode three, we'll have Crystal Ball, my good friend who works in politics.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
So I want to go through on, would you, first of all, would you say Memorial day Sunday is the biggest day of the year for auto racing in America? Yeah.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
Yeah. And what's cool is when I was a kid, that was the only time I ever watched racing was that day. Yeah. Now that changes as I got older. But when I was a kid, that was it.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
It's also a day to kind of look back and go, OK, what's happened in the last few years? Let's start with the first thing in the morning, the F1. So I find F1 racing to be horrendously boring. And that's because I probably grew up with NASCAR, watching people rubbins racing and passing and all that. And even on the best tracks, there's not a lot of passing in F1.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And then you get one to Monaco, there's like no passing. But it has become a spectacle and a phenomenon because of the Netflix show. But there's also become like a party sort of social atmosphere, which I think existed in Europe forever, but now exists in America to races. Have you been surprised how F1 has kind of captured this segment of the American sporting public?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
So we go from Bomani to Ryan to Crystal Ball. That episode should be out probably Thursday night or so. So with that. Ryan McGee. All right, episode two here of the Matt Jones Show. And you know, when I started these, I wanted to get people early on that I knew who've done these before who I know I can talk to and are fun to be around and interesting. And Ryan McGee of ESPN fits all of those.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And the people, I think part of it, the people are good looking, right? Usually the drivers, it's so weird because when we were growing up, the NASCAR drivers were the opposite of good looking. They would be the least good looking people on earth. These people are handsome. They have like amazing hair, clothing, everyone. it looks like they could come out of a Chanel ad.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And I think some people just like it for that. I mean, the only people I know that go to the F1 Miami race are women that go in the best fashion they have. And I'm like, that's so different than going to Martinsville in Virginia. Yeah.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
That's coming at the Derby too now. The Derby is intentionally bringing these TikTok influencers in. And I walked around a lot of the Derby on Oaks on Friday. And there were all these people that people were going crazy for. And I was like, I don't know any of these people. And that made me feel... I felt old at my own Kentucky Derby for the first time. So...
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
You and I, we could have been influencers. Like, why not? We could have been Josh Richards.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
So the race, the F1 race is always terrible at Monaco, but it's worth seeing. And I saw that you have to pay like $280,000 to just pull your yacht to where you can see it. Then you go to Indy, the Indy 500. And I will admit, I tuned out on the Indy 500 for years. Just kind of, I think after Ari Leyendijk, I was just kind of done for a long time.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
He does college football. He does auto racing. And he's also a good Southerner, one of the few people on ESPN with a voice sounding like mine. Ryan, thank you very much. How you been?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 2 - Ryan McGee
And then in the last few years, I've started turning it on. It may have started the COVID year or soon after Indy, And I do agree with you. It's a lot more entertaining, even though I don't know the people in it anymore. It is. The racing is like kind of crazy good. Why is that?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
All right, welcome everybody. It is episode two of the Matt Jones Show. And for this episode, I thought I would bring on someone with ties to Louisville, Kentucky. I met this woman in Louisville many years ago when we tried to do a project and it was a lot of fun. Crystal Ball, she has been on everything from MSNBC to a number of different podcasts. She does Breaking Points with Crystal and Sagar.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
rural areas, not so much the industrial Midwest, although there were some of that, but, you know, Kentucky electric battery, that's where we've seen it in like in Elizabethtown and Bowling Green, these electric battery factory manufacturing, which in theory could be very good for that part of the state.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And they're crushing us in all of this AI electric cars. I mean, everything with this high level technology, would you agree their development is killing us right now?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
I think that's a really, really great point. Let me ask you, okay, so people, my friends who don't follow politics on a day-to-day basis, but who care and tend to lean left. So these are the people I went to college. Right. They will say to me, like, is the world ending because of Trump? Like they have a very doomsday after Trump won the second time, a very doomsday philosophy.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
But they don't follow it on the day to day. They just kind of hear these little things. And I say this and I hope this is true. I want to see if you agree. I say I think Trump has a uniquely talented ability to win people over and that Trumpism really doesn't extend beyond him. When other people try to copy him, it doesn't work. So I have some confidence that when he exits the stage.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
which hopefully is in 2028, but when he exits the stage, that there will not, we won't go back to what it was before, but there's not going to be a figure that can captivate and people just do whatever that person says. That's my hope. Do you think that's naive or true?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
I was about to say, all three of those things you said, though, I think ended up being pretty unpopular. Like, if you pull the deportation stuff, it's unpopular. Elon's now, you don't even see him anymore, and they're not rolling him anywhere. The tariffs...
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
maybe the most unpopular thing that he did, I do have some feeling that those things, which I agree, you hit the exact three things I thought were most scary, all got pushed back. That's something to be confident about, right?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Do you think it will be soon? Like in the next little bit? Yes.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
done um he came out today political giving yeah not trump right yeah i mean he i don't know anyone that doesn't think he's a complete weirdo now like he you talk about a dude who just set his personal image on fire right yeah oh yeah absolutely do you think he realizes that was a mistake
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Bashir says that that was not anything about a factor that night. But in general, people like the weather service, and they don't want to see it hit. Yes.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
That's key because I think what happened with the things that were unpopular is that it is easy. The Republicans, I think, had the same problem we sometimes do with the Democrats of being out of touch. So on paper, you say, OK, this looks like waste. But then when in West Virginia, all the coal mine health services close, that then has effect in West Virginia.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And all of a sudden, these senators and governor from West Virginia are like, wait a minute now. These are all coal miners. Same thing when they cut Medicaid. The first hospitals that will go, the first ones, are the ones in rural red states. They'll be the first ones to go. And the people in those towns, they know that. One of the reasons I think Josh Hawley is like, we cannot cut Medicaid.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
He's got a lot of small towns in Missouri that the hospitals will go away. So I think it's easy for the Elon Musk of the world to just go, oh, we'll just do this. It's waste. But then when it actually the ramifications happen, Crystal, then they have to pull back because like then their actual constituents are like, wait a minute.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Yeah, you definitely are critical towards both parties. But I love that you said populist left because I don't think there's a lot of people like you and I for real in politics. And what I mean by that is for you and I, the working class, I think has always been the centerpiece of what we believe in. And people will say that, but then they don't necessarily actually do the things that lead to it.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Do you think Andy Beshear here in Kentucky, do you think he could be president? Like, if you had asked me that two years ago, I would have thought that was the most ludicrous thing I'd ever heard. I used to say he's vanilla ice cream but without sprinkles. And now maybe – like, but now all of a sudden – First of all, I think he's gotten better at the PR part of this.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
I thought he was always good at the like governing part, but I think he's gotten better at the PR part. But then also the world, there's a part of the world that's kind of yearning for that. OK, can we get to a time where we don't hate each other a little bit? You know, I will tell you, you look at the map of Kentucky in the governor's race in twenty twenty three.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Every place that got hit by a disaster where Bashir worked with them on the ground, he won all of those counties. These are rural Trump counties and he won them because they had had a reason to really deal with him. I'm still skeptical. You're national. Feels like Bashir's in more and more places. Could he be president there? Could he be the nominee?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Oh, for sure. He does. I mean, he's cautious, Crystal, to come on our show.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Who's going to be more on your side than me? Like I'm a Democrat in Kentucky. There are none of us. No one like he is very he'll do it. But like they're very skeptical. And I'm like, man, I can't handle me. Then you're not going to be able to handle the national.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
He at least knows me a little bit, you know, and... But the difference, though, is you and I are off the... This is what worries me about him. He seems to be fine to go on the mainstream Democrat tour, but he seems scared to go on the off-the-beaten-path tour. And if you can't do that with the more left, what are you going to do with the right? I mean, can you imagine a world he's set with...
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Dave Portnoy? I mean, it seems insane to think that. So that's what makes me skeptical.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
I mean, when I try to think of people in the Democratic Party now, if you're just talking on economics, Maybe John Fetterman – Bernie has parts of it, but then parts of it can go the other way, in my opinion. Do you agree with me that there are not a lot of people – first of all, there are not a lot of politicians that are Democrats in office from the places we're talking about, rural America.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
he's at his best when people are hurting. Like he really is like he, he, he gives off a sense of empathy that I think is very rare in politicians. I think politicians, I think I've always thought Obama was very good at that. Obama could go to a scene of a, of a, of a tragedy and really make people feel a certain way. And I think Andy is, is like that too. I give him a lot of credit for that.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
I mean, I think George W. Bush was actually pretty good at that. Right. in various things. He made people feel that I do think there's, there's, there's value.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Well, I mean, remember he got elected governor and then two and a half months later, COVID hits, right? So, and he was on TV every day. And I think one of the things, the COVID debates have become so much about, well, were the lockdowns too long, et cetera, all this stuff. What people forget is there were a group of old people that thought they were going to die. Right.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
There were a group of old people that and Andy Beshear in Kentucky. I don't know about in other states. He made those people feel comfort. They would watch him every day at five o'clock. Wow.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And they and my mom, when he ran for reelection, said he will do better with old people than you think, because there are old people sitting in nursing homes, et cetera, that feel like he tried to keep them alive. Wow. And I genuinely think that was true. I think we in the COVID debate, Crystal, I think we get lost in the vaccine. Was it should you have to take it?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Did we lock down too long and forget that for people 75 or 70 and older, they thought they were going to die. Right. And he was one of those people who people felt like was trying to keep them alive.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
There's an age group that's different. OK, so for people 40 to 60, especially who work in business, it radicalized them to the right. Like, I was a business owner here, and it sucked trying to own a restaurant during that time. But there's a group older than that that genuinely thought they were on the front lines of death. That's interesting.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
I think they value things like civility and some of that, and Andy represents it. Now, I'm skeptical whether that's translatable past Kentucky because people in these other states didn't see him during that time. You know what I mean? So I don't know if that will translate well.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Yeah. I think you're right. I think he, if he had just a little more spice to him, I think he could win. He just needs to be there and try to think about, okay, let's say he were to go on the breakfast club with Charlotte Bay. I can't see it. I mean, I can't see it. I don't know how he would do it.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Yeah, just lean into being a dork. I'm the dorkiest dork that ever dorked. Maybe he should do that.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
That's a whole other thing, because I knew him. He and I were friendly for a long time.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Well, when he wrote Hillbilly Elegy, I... liked it sort of, but then I also had critiques as a real Eastern Kentuckian. I felt like he was kind of being not a fake Eastern Kentuckian, but a part-time Eastern Kentuckian. And I re and I had some criticisms and he wrote me, I did not know who he was and said, I heard about your criticisms. Let's have a conversation.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
So we started what was basically a three or four year conversation where we could interact with each other on a very positive level. And I thought he took stuff from me and vice versa. We met each other on a couple of occasions. I thought he was awkward and weird, but I thought his heart was in the right place about Eastern Kentucky at the time. And I respected him.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And he got involved in this app harvest thing, which I'm kind of amazed Crystal didn't become a bigger scandal that he was involved because it's been a complete cluster. And it never even came up on the presidential campaign. But I knew him through some of that, and I appreciated what he was doing. And then all of a sudden, he just decided, I want to be president. I've got to be pro-Trump.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And he just changed his personality overnight. And I wrote him some messages in 2021, 2022, expressing disappointment at some of the changes. And he engaged with me for a while. And I'll keep those conversations private because I think that's important when you have private conversations. But it ruined our relationship.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And I have been extremely disappointed, not just in his actions, but in the change in who he's become, because I don't think that's who he was six years ago.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Did you feel that way before he was a senator? Because that has become a big thing with him.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Well, he's vice president, so maybe they would say, like...
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
I don't know. I feel like he I had really high hopes for him. And then when I was thinking about running for Senate, my interactions with him, I would take up for him sometimes on the radio in the talk to Democratic circles. People were very adamantly negative to me about that because some people think he'll be the LG is the worst thing in the world. And I've just been disappointed.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
He is not the person he was eight or nine years ago. And I hate that.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
To be fair to him, he never just said, I'm just doing this. He would make the intellectual arguments. And then, you know, I will never do it because, like I said, I think when you have private conversations, they're private conversations. But if you were to go back and read our text and Twitter exchanges for years, you could watch the change in his personality play out in real time.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
I've done that. I went back and looked. And it's just all of a sudden, it was like you were talking to a different person. And we kept having, the last time I spoke to him was when I congratulated on being picked for VP and he sent like a word answer. And that's the last time we've talked.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
But, you know, it is weird though, because both, if it was Bashir Vance, that's so weird because I know both of them. And it would be so, so strange in a presidential race for that to be the case.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Who's a real Kentuckian would be the fascinating. Before we go, I want to ask you about yourself. You ran or you began the process of running for office many years ago. What did that teach?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
When you ran, you had to take a lot of criticism over stupid stuff. And when I was thinking about it, I got the, you know, you get a company to research your background and learn everything about you. And I had to pay to learn all this stuff that I'd forgotten. And most of mine was like... You know, most of mine was like things I'd written many years ago or set on a podcast in 2007 and all that.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And when you've talked as much as I have, there's a lot of that stuff out there.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And I remember at the time thinking, man, you know, I don't nothing was like terrible, but some of it might be a little embarrassing. And so do I want to do I want to want to do that? I kind of wonder, though, now, even just six years later, if none of that stuff matters anymore, that like we've gotten to a point where we're going we're getting generations that have grown up online.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Everyone under 30 has something terribly embarrassing about them online, probably. And that all of those things that, you know, you had to deal with and that if I'd run, maybe I would have had to deal with are just like not an issue anymore. That Trump has made it almost to where none of that stuff matters anymore. What do you think?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Like literally there are women every day that put that up every day voluntarily. And you had to deal with the press attacking you before I even knew you. I remember it happening. And the pictures now would seem so silly.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
She said, I'm going to show my naked body at a congressional hearing. I don't know if she did or not. But, like, she said she was going to, and it's crazy. And it was like the number seven trend, Crystal. It wasn't even number one. It was number seven was a congresswoman was like, yeah, I'm going to be naked at the hearing later today.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Think about Lauren Boebert. That was a woman that, I mean, let's be real, got – Scott, you know, gave a thing at a thing, right? And like the idea that you could survive giving a thing at a thing, Crystal is insane.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
um and has been on everything i mean she's been on every if there's a channel crystal you've been on it at some point about that joe rogan podcast you've been everywhere nice to have you on it's nice to see you matt it's a pleasure it wasn't that many years ago was it i don't know you know it does feel like it doesn't feel like that we used to go to lunch in louisville at the tie place on frankfurt avenue and argue about things and now we're 15 years later and here we are
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
You know, I was like a young guy in the world back then. the blog sphere especially, was very misogynistic. It was very like, look at these hot women over here. And of course, I think it's almost now gone back in that direction. But in a Democratic primary, my worry was not the general election, if I did it. My worry was going to be a Democratic primary.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Because I cringe when I look at how I was when I was doing that. I was 27, 26, and I spoke in a way that I would never speak now. But so I was cringe, although you're right. Now, a lot of people would just embrace it and be like, I'm a bro and I can't do that. But I don't even know if any of it would even matter now. It would probably only hurt you in a Democratic primary.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Well, yeah, Cuomo's coming back. I mean, Cuomo's coming back. Like, I mean, that's crazy, too.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And he's funny. He understands regular culture. I mean, even if it was like, so he actually, it's kind of a shame we lost him, you know?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
The show is called Breaking Points. Crystal, one of the things, you come at issues with, And often reach an opinion that a lot of people agree with, but come at it a different way, which is what I've always appreciated about you is what led us to argue at the various Thai restaurants on Frankfurt Avenue. But it is also what makes you extremely interesting. Thank you very much for taking the time.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Well, that's a good point. We'll see you. Thanks to Crystal Ball for joining us. Hope you enjoyed episode two of the Matt Jones Show. If you haven't yet, go on your podcast platforms, your iHeart, your Apple, your Spotify, subscribe to the Matt Jones Show so that you won't miss an episode. Have a great Memorial Day. We'll see you next week.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
But why do you think he's so popular, though? I mean, this is the question I get asked. You and I end up in these groups of like liberal intellectuals, none of whom have ever spent much time in places like Kentucky or rural Ohio. And yet they opine and they go, a lot of these people like Trump, they're voting against their interests. And I try to articulate why I think they do.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Most people listening to this have probably heard my articulation. What would be yours? Why do you think Trump is so popular in these areas when what you're saying I think is objectively correct?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
See, I think that's huge, by the way. The people you hate... Hate him. Because I think a lot of the people like in Kentucky, they hate white liberals more than they hate anybody, especially like coastal academic white liberals. I think they hate them. And then the fact they hate Trump makes them love Trump more.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
The fact that he gets up there and it's like an entertainment show. I mean, he is a television. He has been in the public spotlight since the 80s, primarily as a figure of entertainment, even when he was a business person. And he just knows how to entertain, right?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Yeah, he just got up and said, my friend is fat. And a lot of people go, you know what? My friend is fat, too. And that's kind of like, it's amazing. By just using normal language, Crystal, that everyday people do, they don't hear politicians talk like that. But that's how they talk.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Well, yeah, Bomani was on my first one, so I decided to have him back again. Now, you do politics, but what I really like about you is even though you're on the left, like me, you come at things from a different perspective. So if somebody was to say to you, Crystal, explain your sort of political ideology in a short phrase, how would you explain it?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
You mentioned those guys on the podcast. I think in 2024, the sort of bro-sphere podcast did make some level of difference. Whether or not they made a huge difference will maybe never really been known. But those guys you mentioned, I think Rogan, Theo Vaughn, Portnoy, that crew... I think did make a difference. So that has led to people going, well, how do we get to have a liberal Joe Rogan?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And I've had people sort of reach out to me as like, can you do you think you could be the liberal Joe Rogan? And I said, you know, I don't I don't know that it works that easily. Do you think it's ridiculous or do you think there is there should be a reach out by Democrats to find someone who can speak to, quote unquote, bro culture?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Like I just, they can though if they want, like I'll take it. I just, I don't know if it would work.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
They don't challenge him at all. They don't challenge him at all.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Totally agree with you. I think part of it is 98% of politicians, right or left, are not normal human beings. You almost have to be a psychopath. To be in office. And I'm not even kidding about that. Like you have to go through this where your family, your friends, everyone.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
I mean, you and I have talked about when I was considering running for Senate and I knew what was going to happen, not just to me, but to everyone around me. And I wasn't willing to put my people through that. You almost have to be a psychopath to be like, yes, I want my family to be scrutinized. Yes, I want everything I say. So take that aside. You almost have to be a psychopath.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Then most of those people are not interesting. They're not just compelling human beings as human beings usually. Yeah. And then those podcasts, the thing about a Theo, like Theo Vaughn is clearly right wing. But when he tells a story about eating pie, I can't help but laugh. You know what I mean? Like the way he does it. And I just think the folks on our side, we try to be so issue-oriented.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
And you're an exception to this. It makes it hard for us to just do what normal people do and sit and talk.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
He was on Andrew Schultz, and I actually thought he did a good job with Andrew Schultz.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
But if you were to draw up what a sleazy politician looks like, wouldn't you pick him? Oh, absolutely.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Yeah. So I was down in London, Kentucky, where the tornado hit a couple of days ago. And I was driving around and, you know, that's my home area.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
Well, I'm from like 45 minutes away, Middlesbrough. I'm from southeast Kentucky, and London was kind of the big city when I was growing up. So I look around in Appalachia, and this would also be true in the Rust Belt, and I sort of wonder – Is there anything that can be done to help economically? Leave aside all the reasons we were screwed. And there are many. NAFTA's one.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 3 - Krystal Ball
The way we turned our backs on coal miners is one. But let's start in 2025. And let's say Matt Jones and Crystal Ball were in charge of policy to help turn around rural America. What would you suggest should be done?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
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The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
But I think the society and social media now rewards the one-minute smart person.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And if he debates 15 people and he loses one, he can just not post that one. Yes. Right? Like, you know, that's the one he doesn't... Well, Charlie Kirk... Hold on.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Oh, yeah. We give... We get so upset. We get so upset at the craziest and we actually amplify them. And that's a negative. And by the way, the right does that too. They pick the craziest left person, amplifies them as well, and you end up with extreme voices.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah, that's right. We're big on sort of looking like we care the most. It's a competition to see who is the most, to use a right phrase, woke. But it's really like, who's got the opinion that gets the most agreement? You go on CNN now, some of them, for that panel show. Who's the host? What's her name? Abby Phillip. Abby Field.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And there's a guy from Kentucky that you're on quite a bit with that I actually used to do television with. A lot of these listeners will know Scott Jennings. I find it interesting. You, to me, more than deserve to be on there for your intelligence. But it is also interesting to me that CNN feels like that's where they go to get people is there's all these sports people on there.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
I mean, Scott Jennings is just a guy in Kentucky. Like he didn't even like he's there's nothing. He's pretty smart, but he's not qualified any more than anyone else is. Right. It's odd how the experts in politics now are just people that they just kind of pick out of nowhere and say, this is an expert now.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
You want to punch him. You've wanted to punch him. I know I've wanted to punch him and I worked with him all the time.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Why is this guy on TV? It would be the same with me. If they put me on, it's like when I used to host the nightly political show in Kentucky, there'd be people who say, why do you get to do that? And I don't really know the answer to that. But that's also, by the way, true about sports. I didn't even play. So, like, why do you and I get to talk about sports? We weren't big athletes.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
I'm surprised you watch that. Like, I find it mind numbing. What makes you what makes you watch political television?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Well, that's interesting. You and I have had conversations about this. After George Floyd, which was just five years ago, it felt like a lot of people, companies and all these folks, felt like they had to sort of show their commitment to causes. You joked about how for two weeks everybody did their two weeks of things. And then it seems to have completely gone in a different direction.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And I have friends who are on the left who just now are like – I just don't – I can't think about it anymore. It frustrates me, and I'm just, like you said, exhausted. Why do you think that happened so quickly? I mean, it just reverts so quickly.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Bill Burr has that thing. He goes... He has a joke about this where he talks about Burger King. And he was like, Burger King came out and said, we're very against this. And he was like, I don't go to Burger King to hear what you think about whatever. Like, I come for burgers one way or the other.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
So do you think the people that are kind of the Joe Rogans or of the right who I think that radicalized a lot of those people when those kinds of things happen? Do you think they had any point or do you think that like do you think there was any point that, hey, it went too far?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Remember, they were talking about having it in Louisville, and because of Breonna Taylor, the players wouldn't do it. Louisville was one of the two or three finalists to have it because we have so many gyms where they could do it. And then after Breonna Taylor, the players said they wouldn't do it.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Well, I mean, in Kentucky, John Calipari knelt with the team at a game and it still got brought up three or four years later. It was one game. It wasn't even in Lexington. It was at Florida. That was the year he went 13 and 19 or whatever. And it was like the only good game they played all season. But people still remember. And that image stuck with him. And it's interesting.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
I still have people, Bomani, that five years later bring it up to me and said that's when I turned on him. It wasn't the fact that they went 13 and 19. It was that kneeling that day.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah. That mattered to some people. I thought it was silly, but it did.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Oh, yeah. Mark Stoops has a picture. The whole U.K. football team and Mark Stoops marched in Lexington, and there's a picture with pale Mark Stoops with his red hair with Black Lives Matter shirt on. I remember that. And I just... I can't wait.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Wow, I didn't realize Mike Leach did it. That is crazy. Yeah, for people in Kentucky will know who this is. But there's a picture of the front of the U.K. football Black Lives Matter march is Mark Stoops and Landon Young, who literally grew up on a farm in Lexington, whitest guy you'll ever see. And the two of them are standing in the front, both with Black Lives Matter shirts on.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And that's when I was like, whoa, okay, this is a completely different place.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah, it is. Let's talk a little sports for a second. Let me ask you about some things going on right now. I love Carl Towns. Carl Towns is, if you get on TikTok, is a heck of a conversation. People have wild opinions about Carl Towns. But now he's playing well. The Knicks could easily end up going to the Eastern Conference Finals.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Carl Towns, people who listen to KSR know, famously, the 2015 UK basketball team all took a shot to going 40-0, and he wanted to be part of it, and they were all drinking alcohol, and he took a shot of air so he could be with his brothers. That's what he said. That, to me, is Carl Towns in a nutshell.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Do you – you know, I've been around it more. I think COVID changed him a little bit. Do you think Mike Krzyzewski, because you've also followed Duke a lot, going and getting one-and-dones and finally giving in and saying, I'm going to go get Zion and I'm going to go get those guys. I think that changed Cal.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Did you ever think you'd see the day that Mike Krzyzewski would be recruiting a one-and-done kid to a university like Duke where you taught?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah, you're exactly right about that. For people who haven't seen, when you did your HBO show, your rant about Duke, look it up on YouTube. It's one of the greatest things of all time.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
You know, it's amazing how much people laughing matters in doing things like that. Just the sound of random people. One time we tried to do on my local TV show a weekend update parody with Kentucky News, and we did it once, and when you watched it, it was unbelievably painful because people weren't laughing. Then we did it again and had an audience, and it was okay. But you've, like...
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
When you sit there and you try to make jokes and then there's silence, maybe it works on The Office, but it doesn't work in a show like that.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Well, at the time, you had written something that was kind of like, maybe Kentucky needs to make a change. And I was a generally pretty positive tubby guy, and a lot of folks were using your words to go, see, we're not racist. We want tubby gone. Here's a young black guy that wants it, too.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
You just need it. Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson. Woo! I find it fascinating. I'm going to be honest with you. I don't care. I know it shouldn't be interesting, but it is to me. You're a smart guy. Is it to you?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Okay, so what's your favorite part of it? I'll give you a couple of mine and see what you think. Obviously, everybody focuses on the CBS interview. The fact that Bill Belichick is so smitten, he sat at a Holiday Inn Express in Portland, Maine, and went to the Miss Maine contest. That, to me, is pretty amazing.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And then the way she was at the UNC spring game on the field in the boots and the jacket, those two things I was like, man, this woman has him like to where he's – He's in it.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yes, he is. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Because, I mean, I don't ever – there's not a scenario I could see me posting any woman like things like that. Could you – Hell no. But you and I are both single. So maybe that's part. Yeah.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
When you have opinions that are genuinely your opinions, but then people that might be bad actors in your mind take them for arguments you don't want, how does that work? I'm sure that's happened to you before.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
You think he's the coach in game one? Oh, he's the coach. He's the coach. Do you think it works?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
That's true. And I think part of what makes it so fascinating is of all the people, you wouldn't pick him as that guy. Right. You wouldn't have thought. I mean, he seemed like such a grouch and such a like no fun and all business. And then the video where she's walking in the jacket is hanging off her arms and she looks like she's like 17 years old. Like that.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And he's like walking ahead of, you know, I ask any man who goes out who's dated, you don't walk ahead of the woman. He's way ahead of her. That's partially to me also what makes it fast. I mean, the amount of women, Bomani, that care about this story in a way they don't care about sports. Like when we talk about it on our show, women flood me with responses.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Visit James Motor Company Mercedes-Benz of Lexington, or learn more at jamesmotorcompany.com.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah. I kind of think, though, part of me says, listen, I'm not going to criticize that girl. Maybe it's the fancy part. She seems like, to me, she made a mess up with the CBS program, but otherwise it feels like she's kind of done what she's, I mean, and maybe they like each other.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
That line is why I love Beaumont. I want to ask you just a personal question for a second because you and I, like you said, we both sort of radiate confidence that some people would say goes into arrogance. We both have had successes, but we've both had failures, right? I've had some – on a lower level failures, you have had some maybe higher profile failures for someone like you.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And like, like me, who's like considers themselves a high achieving person.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
But I saw you during that time. You and I met in New York during that period. And it's the only time in my life I've talked to you that I didn't feel like you were doing great. Maybe I read that wrong. It just didn't feel like to me you were that happy. And maybe I'm reading it wrong.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Totally agree. I had two local TV shows, and the first one was a failure. It didn't work. I wasn't the easiest to work with, but it made it to where I felt like the second one was good. I see your Emmy back there. We won an Emmy, and I feel good about it. What's interesting, though, is it's interesting to hear you say your failure was dropping out.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
or was not getting the second round on the micro econ. When I, when I was doing the wrestling company, we did not get a second season of that documentary, the wrestler show. And there are people who will say to me, well, you should have had a second season. How did they not give you a second season?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And I wanted to be like, dude, I bought a regional wrestling company and got Netflix to make a show where Look, I forget the second. I can't even believe they did one. I mean, can you believe that they did a show? And I got the director who did cheer and the Dallas Cowboys show to like last chance you he did it. So to me, it's all about perspective, like you said.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And I don't have a lot of dreams. You said you didn't want to say his name, so I won't say his name. Actually, I have to. You don't have to say it. He's on these stations. He's on this station we're on. Clay Travis, who has spent almost a career of picking at you for a long time. He really liked it. Without addressing him, what is it like to have a person that every single thing you do
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
They're sitting there ready to poke you about it and have a mini army of people joining you. People who listen to this, you may have heard Clay earlier today. Heck, he may have talked about Beaumont today. He likes to pick at you. Does it anger you if you saw him? What would you do?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Oh, really? Because see, I know you both. I'm friends with you. I'm not really friends with him, but I've known him for a long time. What was that like?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
I've seen you angry. And when you're angry, you're angry. Before we wrap up.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah, that's true. I need to learn that lesson because people always tell me, man, when these folks come after you, you need to let it go. That's harder for me than it probably is most people. Maybe because I grew up in eastern Kentucky and you don't just walk away. Oh, I've had to learn. I've had to learn.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah, and I can't fight, so I would fight with words, and it's hard for me just to walk away. Well, I'll wrap up because I know you've got to go. One time you said something to me that I still quote, and I don't even remember what the issue was. It had something to do – I can't remember. But you were watching the NBA Finals.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
It was when LeBron was playing against Durant and the Thunder in the Finals. And something happened, and I called you because I wanted to know your opinion on it. And you answered the phone and you said, I'm watching the NBA finals. What's up? And I asked you some question. And it was basically exactly what your response is. You paused and you go, Matt, I love you.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
But I can't be the black friend you call anytime you want a black opinion. That was basically what you said. It was like, you're calling me because I'm black to ask what I think about this. And it really did change the way I thought, not just about you, but a lot of things. Explain to me why you said that and do a lot of people do that with you?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah. Do you get angry when people are asked to be the representative for black voices and you don't think the representative like I'm just picking a person, but it could be a lot of people, Candace Owens or something like that?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
No, that's interesting. If you don't do it, who will they get?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Let me explain to people who might not know what you said. You said about Shador Sanders, I believe something like maybe he needs to be a little more humble. Yeah, he did it wrong. He did it wrong, right? He did it wrong. Yeah. And that was also the kind of thing that like a right-wing columnist would say. Right. And that's hard for you to say, even if you're coming at it from a different point.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
They'll call you for the answer they want and then you don't give it. So I've had that happen twice with the New York Times. They called me once to say, do you think Andy Beshear can get elected president? Then I was playing the role of Mr. Kentucky guy. And I went, no, because you have to understand the unique circumstances of him. His dad was the governor. Everyone hated Matt Bevin.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And then we've had these huge tragedies that he's been really good during. I don't think that translates nationally. And it was clear they wanted me to say, yes, he could be president. Then the second time was the Stephen A. Smith. New York Times called me to ask about whether or not he could be president in sports. Oh, the same article. Probably the same article.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And I was like, no, nobody wants him. He's respected in the sports community, but nobody says Stephen A. Smith. And both times, my quotes probably won't get used because I didn't give them what they wanted in that moment.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Because everyone says he's, I don't know him, but everyone says he's a nice guy off the air.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
It's the movie Idiocracy. It just came 20 years earlier.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
That's right. That's the easiest thing. It's the easiest thing to say, because in some ways it's true. Yes. Like the mainstream Democrats are out of touch. We can all say that. Whereas, you know, I've learned you can take people ask, well, how do you have conservative listeners? Here's the answer. You can talk, take liberal positions. Just be very careful about taking shots at Trump, the person.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Right. You can say, let's use the example of the Qatari plane. Do you think the president should take a plane, $400 million from a foreign country and then keep it when it's over? No. But if I say, do you think Trump should take a plane? Different conversation. Right. So the key is as much as possible, leave him out of it. Now, sometimes I don't, but that to me is the key.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
For sure. And conservatives... I can do it because I have a country accent.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Right? When's the last time you've seen a white country male on TV speaking Democrat politics? Right. Right.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And you used to say that you thought people in North Carolina would listen to you because you were black and not a white liberal. Because they really hate white liberals. They do. Especially educated ones.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Because I liked Biden. I don't blame him. I blame the people around him. Do you?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Or the Bulwark or those sites. Yes, they do. You're exactly right. The John McCains of the world, for lack of a better term.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah, there's not many. Well, Monty, thank you very much for doing this. And if I ever get another show, you'll be the first guest on that one.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
So that's been episode one of the Matt Jones Show. You can get the entirety of the conversation on podcast. Look up for Matt Jones Show because there's more to it than you heard. And we'll be back next Thursday with another conversation with someone interesting. This has been the first ever episode of the Matt Jones Show on WHAS.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah. So you didn't feel like you could have the opinion. Shador should have been a first round pick. Right. If you didn't think he should be a first round pick. Right. I mean, like you can't have that.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
One of the people that said that was Stephen A., who said something like, this is like Kaepernick. And I don't really know Stephen A., but I wanted to be like, look, it is clear Kaepernick had the NFL. They had come together and violated antitrust. That's why they settled with him, and that's why he's not played since then.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
You Stephen A has become this figure where whatever he talks about gets a lot of attention, including the absurdity that people think he could run for president. You've known him a long time. I know you respect his work when he was a writer.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
How do you feel about this notion that he's almost become this spokesman somehow for not just sports, but anyone who might be on the left or anyone like we all have to hear what Stephen A thinks about anything.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Look at you already having this pulled up. I didn't even tell you topics. and you already have this on your phone.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
You think that's already the case? You think that's already the case?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
I've never heard of anybody that wants Stephen A to be president. Like I hear people saying that he could be president, but I have yet to meet one person that would want Stephen A. Smith to be president.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Yeah. Do you, okay. So you, you're, if people can't already tell, and I'm sure they can, you are an extremely intelligent person. I have watched as with you, You have to try to have success in a world that is for carnival barkers. So do I mean, I have to do the same thing. You have to be funny. You have to be entertaining, et cetera. And you have to walk that line.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
And some people can do it and some people can't. Do you feel like you are able to both be intelligent, make the comments you want to make, but also be funny enough, entertaining enough that they can put you on TV and you'll make good TV?
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
All right. Welcome, everybody. This is the Matt Jones show. And, you know, when I did my first show, I guess, of the old Matt Jones podcast, which started many, many, many years ago, my first guest was Bomani Jones. And I thought, how fitting that we're starting it back and we bring him back. My longtime friend, Bo, from ESPN, HBO, now CNN. He was a writer. He did local radio.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
No, the condescending is huge, and Democrats are terrible at that.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
Our party is much more condescending than the other side. I also think there's been this rise, though, of what I would call the stupid intellectual, which is the person that is just smart enough to sound smart in a minute on TikTok.
The Matt Jones Show
Episode 1 - Bomani Jones
But then really can't. The example I always use is Charlie Kirk. No offense to the guy. He might be a nice guy. But in a minute, that dude can sound smart. And when they do the things where he brings college kids on and he debates them for 30 seconds, he can sound smart. But if you set him next to a really smart person, he's not going to sound smart.