Matt Flegenheimer
Appearances
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
That's a huge piece of it. But it's interesting. White, obviously, for years, despite the speech in 2016 at the convention, had kind of positioned the UFC as the apolitical sport in contrast to what he and I think a lot of UFC fans saw as kind of an overt intrusion of politics and protests and social justice initiatives into the NBA, the NFL. The UFC was supposed to be sort of insulated from that.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Of course, in this case, COVID became a great piece of the culture war. And by opening, reopening at all, that's a political stance and certainly was aligned with where Trump was in that moment as he was pushing for a kind of broader reopening of the economy.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Absolutely. And it's been building for some time, but this is the moment that really establishes White as a MAGA superstar of the highest order in a way that even the convention speech didn't. And you see the Trump orbit and the UFC orbit, the white orbit kind of merge.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And this cultural moment starts to form around disaffected men who feel slighted, who feel like the world has not been conspiring in their favor for some time.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
the manosphere. And these fights become a gathering place for the leading lights of that intellectual space. This sort of amorphous, right-wing, anti-woke, anti-establishment sentiment. And in his period of not being the president anymore, starting in 2021, Trump is kind of one of those figures. He becomes somebody who shows up at these fights, frankly, in moments of
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
sort of public turmoil for himself. One of the first public appearances he makes in his period of being kind of a pariah after January 6th in 2021 is at a UFC fight. Interesting, huh? After he's indicted, he goes to a UFC fight. It becomes a sort of balm, and he's walking in and getting a giant ovation among a lot of his supporters.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And that obviously expanded over the course of these four years in between his terms.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Absolutely. And White has accumulated a ton of cultural capital and political capital from being this grand figure in that space. And he knows when and how to use it. And I think the most interesting example of this in recent times is with Bud Light. Like the beer. The beer. Bud Light, the beer. Are you familiar with Bud Light as a brand?
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
So in the spring of 2023, you see the beginnings of a huge backlash to Bud Light on the political right.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Over a promotion they did involving a transgender influencer.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And Dana White is in the process of negotiating a beer sponsorship with Anheuser-Busch, Bud Light's parent company. And he's in a tough position because he sort of stands accused of selling out for associating with Bud Light after this major backlash. But obviously the sponsorship is lucrative for the UFC.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
So what he does is he sets about trying to uncancel Bud Light.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Yeah. And what White does is call himself as a character witness.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
He goes on with Tucker Carlson, with Sean Hannity, with Charlie Kirk.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
The message being essentially, if Bud Light wants to do business with me, that tells you all you need to know. And privately, he is back-channeling with a lot of these figures. Kid Rock, who had been a part of this effort to protest Bud Light. He is talking to the Anheuser-Busch CEO in White's green room, and they're sort of talking it out and finding a way forward.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And then Trump himself, even months after that, is continuing to sort of hammer Bud Light on social media, and White speaks to him on the phone. And after that phone call, Trump posts a sort of follow-up saying that the company deserves a second chance, going through a lot of talking points that echo White's thoughts.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And lo and behold, about a year after boycotts began and a few weeks after Trump has backed down, I attend a fight in Miami and the fighters are out there bleeding all across the Bud Light logo on the canvas. So White gets what he wants. It's hard to see another figure sitting at that intersection of culture and politics and sports who could have pulled off what White pulled off here.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Absolutely. And they're both well positioned to do each other some good. And certainly Trump can call in White to help him in moments of political need as well. And we see that in this last campaign.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
A couple of things. I mean, again, he's speaking at the convention, so that's the sort of explicit, overt, you know, endorsement. And nobody was surprised he was there this time. But the sort of broader kind of role he plays in this is as this kind of master of ceremonies white for this entire universe of people.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
The fights become gathering places, and he can make connections between Trump and these figures in the manosphere, whether that's Joe Rogan, whose podcast he ends up doing, The Nelk Boys, his other podcasters, Theo Vaughn. White is in the middle of all of that, a kind of chief ambassador moving between Trump and these worlds.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
The Trump campaign, as part of its strategy, sees a lot of voters who don't necessarily engage with politics, who are not following the news closely, a really target demographic for them. They're going after people who often skew younger and male, who are not necessarily ideological or don't sort of fall on ideological lines on the issues in the way that you would expect traditionally.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And a lot of those people watch the UFC, and a lot of people in that world respect Dana White's opinion. And so Trump is appearing on a lot of these podcasts. He's speaking to these audiences.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Yeah. And it's been traditionally hard to break through to that demographic. And the Trump campaign had a lot of success.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Matt and I... The Trump campaign is really trying to meet them where they are. I mean, Trump did a UFC fan podcast and wasn't talking about any kind of policy.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
It's actually about as close to contemplative as I've heard him get. He gives this answer talking about fights that it's sort of a microcosm of life. It's this sort of binary thing. There are winners and losers. And you can sort of see how that maps onto his political worldview.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And obviously Trump wins the election in November, and he and his team are well aware of how integral that strategy was and White's role in it. And on election night, after midnight, as he's giving his victory speech... We also have a man, Dana White, who has done some good. Does he pull up on stage to the microphone to give some remarks? But Mr. Dana White...
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And White proceeds to give a speech that is not surprising to anybody who's listened to him or Trump talk about these recent years. It's heavy on the sort of expert consensus being wrong.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And he shouts out these figures.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
From this universe he sort of presides over in some ways.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Absolutely. I think both of them have learned that lesson time and again in their public lives, that expert consensus is often nonsense, that their instincts are to be trusted. What you've seen, I think, from both of them is a sort of recognition that they can be their purest, basest selves, and that that would be rewarded.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
I think White and Trump both saw around the corner here about what the UFC could become and the cultural and political space that it has become. And there's no reason to think now that it will be any less important. It'll probably be even more important. And the way that the two of them see the world mean that their worldview will matter quite a bit.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And White has really articulated his worldview quite clearly. To quote him, America has become so soft. If you have even this much savage in you, everything out there right now is for the taking.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
There's a reason they're friends.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Matt, thank you. Thank you, Sabrina.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Thank you so much for having me.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Sure. UFC stands for Ultimate Fighting Championship. It's the sort of primary promotion associated with mixed martial arts. It is a cage fighting enterprise which combines elements of kickboxing, wrestling, jiu-jitsu into this kind of very painful medley of activities in what they call the octagon, this eight-sided cage where two fighters convene and beat each other up over a course of rounds.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
It also has been one of the fastest growing sports. Huge audience internationally. Was acquired for $4 billion in 2016. Has only grown since, not just in the sports world, but culturally and politically as well. And really has a kind of crowning moment in November.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
So, President-elect Trump, really fresh off his election win, attends a fight at Madison Square Garden in New York City. Trump is sort of waiting in the wings with his entourage and walks out almost as if he is the fighter. President and CEO of the UFC, Dana White is to his left. Elon Musk is with him. Mike Johnson is with him.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
various cabinet members to be if he has his way.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And the crowd just loses its mind.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And Trump is taking this all in. This is obviously a very friendly room for him, and he has chosen this as a major post-election victory lap space.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And he got the reception that he wanted. So they're showing this video on the Jumbotron above the octagon, showing various triumphant moments for the president-elect.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And as the video ends, you see the number 45 flash across the screen, and then it moves to 47, showing his presidency and his presidency-to-be.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
You know, I think it's actually a pretty natural choice for Trump if you think about the arc of Trump and the UFC across really 20 plus years at this point. And that arc begins with Dana White. White has been a close friend and ally of Trump's and they've kind of risen in parallel and have kind of developed an understanding, not just as people who are in business, who are transactional.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
But I think beyond that, there's a sort of visceral understanding mutually about what what it means to succeed in this American moment without having kind of establishment forces behind you every step of the way. I think White understands that about Trump, but I think Trump understands that about White.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
So he's from Boston. He sort of bounces around in his youth. He's kind of a serial scofflaw by his own account. He's a hotel bellman for a bit, trains to be a boxer, becomes a boxing trainer, winds up moving to Vegas, continues training and eventually managing fighters
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
and really becomes sort of enthralled with the ufc and this is the sort of mid to late 1990s it's a moment where the ufc is very much on the fringe it is a young fledgling league with a quite bad reputation across a lot of the american mainstream we're live from the mile high city of denver colorado eight of the deadliest fighters in the world will meet in a no holds barred combat to
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And as a viewing experience, the sort of production values were low. The venues were pretty grungy. This was not Saturday night at Madison Square Garden. The UFC's own tagline for a time was, there are no rules. That was sort of the pitch. So really bloody. Bloody and lawless.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
John McCain calls it human cockfighting. States are banning it by the dozen. Venues don't want to host fights. But despite all of that, you know, Dane White really sees some potential in the UFC. And he sees a sort of appetite in the American audience and beyond for a level of violence through sports that I think the expectation was prior to that maybe people didn't quite have the stomach for.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Yeah, I think to White, this is an opportunity. So what he does is talks to a couple of high school buddies from a family of casino operators and convinces them to put up $2 million to buy the UFC at this moment when it's certainly not a premium property and to put him in charge and give him a stake and really let him kind of execute the vision that he has for what the sport can become.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
They find someone who does want to host the thing, or is at least willing.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Somebody with a long history of hosting fights, at least boxing.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And that is the future president and president-elect, Donald Trump.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
In February 2001, at a moment when, as White would say later, nobody was taking them seriously, Donald Trump took them seriously.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
This is the moment. And obviously, White was grateful to be hosted by Trump to have the sort of legitimacy that came with having a major fight night at a Trump venue at that time. With that said, this is not an overnight success by any stretch. They're losing money. It's not taking off in any kind of rocket ship way.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
But you can see some sort of early signs that Trump and White understand each other. Trump invites one of the fighters onto the Celebrity Apprentice for a season. And reality TV really plays a substantial role in the UFC's arc.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
In 2005, there's a reality show, The Ultimate Fighter, that debuts.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
It really helps drive interest and... complete the picture of these fighters for viewers. They get attached to these sort of biographies, these compelling stories.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
That's just not my style. And it does really help the fights themselves get a sort of wider audience and gain more traction.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
To such an extent, as the UFC grows, that Trump gets a little jealous. What did he do? So in 2008, Trump announces he's investing in his own rival mixed martial arts enterprise. And, you know, he's trying to sort of harness some of the energy that the UFC is clearly channeling. But his group is not long for this world, and his operation collapses pretty quickly.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
But it's really a testament to the Trump-White friendship. The two of them are not necessarily the type to take kindly to business threats in their respective fields. And they stay on very good terms here. And in 2011, the UFC signs a big TV contract. Trump sees an article about it.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
takes it, writes a message on it, and sends it to White saying, you know, congratulations, I always knew you were going to do it.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And sort of, you know, it's both a compliment and self-regarding about his own instincts that Trump saw it coming as well.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
You know, in some ways, they approach politics from kind of a similar vantage point if you think about Trump before he was president. It's very transactional, not ideological politics.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
You know, frankly, as the commissioner of a league that's trying to appeal to as many people as possible, in general, those sorts of figures wouldn't necessarily want to engage in partisan politics because the country is pretty evenly split and you're trying to cast a wide net.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Sure. But then Trump runs for office in 2016 and he has a request when he becomes the Republican nominee, which is that Dana White speak at his convention that summer. which obviously would place him very much in the middle of partisan politics in a way that had not been a part of his profile previously.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
He has said he was advised against doing it for all the reasons you would expect, that it would alienate potential sponsors, it would alienate fans. So it was kind of high stakes for him because potentially it could alienate half his audience. Sure. But he does speak at that convention.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And White himself leaned into the idea that it was sort of strange that he was there.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
You're probably wondering, what are you doing here? It was kind of his opening.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And he talked about the chance that Trump took on him in the UFC in 2001, his loyalty, his fighter instincts. He was the sort of validating voice that Trump wanted to have in that moment.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
The sky doesn't fall. Right. And I think that's an important lesson that he learns in that moment. He goes out on this limb. He's advised against doing something much in the way that he was in his telling advised against giving it all to the UFC at the beginning. In this case, Dana White gives the speech at the RNC. It goes fine. And as a matter of fact, Trump's elected president.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And now he knows the president.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Trust your gut. And I think the lesson was that Dana White believed then and believes now that he knows his audience better than anyone. And to him, that audience respects somebody who will do what he believes in or at least project that he is doing what he believes in. He has been somebody with an antenna for this stuff and for knowing where his audience would be across the decades.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Well, it comes during a pretty dark time across the sports landscape and otherwise, and it's COVID. Obviously, sports are sort of shut down across the board. People are thirsting for any kind of content of any sort.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
The NBA stopped playing, and there is this real appetite to get something fresh and live on the air. And Dana White sees an opportunity. He's trying to find workarounds. And he finds it in Florida, an empty arena in Jacksonville. The UFC becomes the first major American pro sporting event in the COVID age to reopen.
The Daily
Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
And certainly the expert consensus and the medical consensus was that this was not necessarily a fantastic idea. He is sort of bulldozing through that concern. And it was a moment when obviously the sports landscape was barren. He had a pretty captive audience and it was really a showcase opportunity for the UFC.