Margie Worrell
Appearances
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Well, I think recognizing that most of the time when we're taking a risk, it's really, really binary. Like, oh, yeah, I was going to win or I was going to lose. So, for instance, buying a house, when I look back, I wished I'd spent more money and extended myself more, but I was way too uncomfortable and financially risk-averse to...
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
than to put so much money into my first home or my second home, frankly. But to that point, Mike, we're always having to analyze the pros and the cons. Can I afford it? Can I not afford it? What are the chances of this going wrong? So we need to do that analysis. And you said, well, it could have gone either way. You know, most of the time it's not 50-50.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Most of the time it's like, well, you know, there was a 15, 20% chance it might not have worked out. But it's not like we sit idly by while the whole thing falls. Yes, sometimes, you know, the stock market just crashes overnight. But most of the time there's signs that things aren't starting to go well and we can intervene to shore up the downsides.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
You know, I remember meeting Richard Branson a few years back and he talked about taking a third mortgage on his home in his early days with Virgin. And I said, gosh, how did your wife feel about that? Because he was married, he had a little child. And he said, oh, I didn't tell her. And I was thinking, man, I wouldn't have wanted to be married to you back in the day. But he also said...
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
He always sought to shore up against the downsides of the losses so that if he lost things, you know, he didn't lose everything. How could he avoid that in terms of the way he financed things, et cetera? And, of course, we are not all wired to be, you know, trailblazing entrepreneurs that bet, you know, take a second and third mortgage out on our home. but we do need to make bets all the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
If you go through your days, we're always making a bet. Do I spend my time on this or not? And it's the risk reward analysis. And often we're a little too cautious and we actually should go, you know what? I'm going to back myself here.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
I'm going to go out on a little bit of a limb, not crazy, but I'm just going to put some of my own identity on the line here because I really feel like this is the direction I want to be heading.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Yeah, that's true. But actually the evidence shows that we are three times more likely to regret the chances that we didn't take. And at the end of life, we're more likely to regret the brave things we didn't do. So there's this, it's called the theory of regret theory. that we regret because we don't know what could have happened.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
And yeah, in the short term, it's like, well, I didn't have to risk the rejection. But over time, when we've got more time and we can look at things through a longer arc of time going, I should have just asked her out. Heck. And, you know, I'm sure you've heard the saying fear, regret more than you fear failure. But I know for me, when I wrote my first book, I had four kids, seven and under.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
And I just felt really passionate around what I was doing. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing with writing a book. I've got four little kids. And I just thought. I don't want to look back one day and go, what if I'd tried? And did I write a literary masterpiece? No. Did I feel really nervous as it was coming out? Yes. Was it easy? No,
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Did I write a bestseller that made me millions of dollars? Absolutely not remotely, yes. But I'm always pleased that I wrote that book because that book opened up the door to new opportunities and to doing media interviews and then to speaking more widely. And it was just a first step and it was a fumbly first step.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
It was an awkward first step, but it opened up the door to a whole lot of other possibilities. And likewise, you know, whenever I meet someone who's really thriving in their life, they're constantly trying things and not everything lands, you know. Yeah, sometimes it doesn't. But when we don't, we don't interpret failure as, you know, who we are. Failure is an event, not a person.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
And when we can befriend failure. as a prerequisite for us to learn what we need to learn to keep moving forward smarter, then it actually frees us to risk more of it. And no, I'm not talking massive failures, but just like, oh, I'm going to go along to this thing and meet these people or I'm going to write an article and it mightn't be the best article or, you know, whatever it is for you.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
But, you know, that thing of embracing, that concept of embracing imperfection and good enough and just putting yourself out there and giving yourself permission not to nail it all the time actually just empowers you to do so many more things than you ever would if you're waiting to line all your ducks in a row.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Yeah, I know those people too. Aren't they annoying?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
look i wished i was one of those people who didn't care um i do care i wished i didn't feel so self-conscious i wish there was a little voice in my head as i'm talking to you mike going oh margie you're saying the right things are you hitting it you know there is it's there uh what i what i know is it's like how much power do we give that for those people who just don't
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
don't care um i actually would say we shouldn't aspire not to care about anything we should care deeply about things but it's about caring about the right things it's about caring about doing things with our time that make the world a little better even if it's our neighbor's life a little better or you know our kids or our family etc
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
And so it's about what is it that you are putting your focus on? What do you care about? Because what we focus on expands. And so some of us can put all of our focus and attention into what will people think if I mess up? I'm like, yeah, but what will you think of yourself if you don't give yourself a chance? So put your focus on what it is you want.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Not on what you don't want because you can get crippled, like really be held almost captive by impression management, trying to look good in the eyes of others. You know, I like looking good in front of the eyes of others. I mean, I'm human. I'd like to think that everyone thought I was great. But what I know is more important is me feeling great about what I'm doing.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
So I put my attention into what is it I'm doing that makes me feel that's meaningful, that's purposeful, that I think it adds, makes the world a better place. And not on... What will everyone say? And so I think there is a real power here in being intentional about what you put your focus on.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it? I've had people tell me over the years they've just been really stressed about making a change. Sometimes it's ending a relationship. Sometimes it's telling someone feedback at work or they've got to let someone go or they know they need to do something and they're so anxious about it. And then they finally do it.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
And I have never had anyone tell me that they wished they'd waited longer. Everyone has said, I wished I hadn't waited so long. Like the stress they had by delaying the action they knew they needed to take. I always say cold water doesn't get warm if you wait longer.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
So if you're not on a path, if there's something you know you need to do, it's not going to get easier a year from now and two years from now and five years from now.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Thanks, Mike. Great to speak with you.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
My definition of courage is the decision to take action in the presence of our fear and doubt and risk.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Well, let me just start by sharing two core dimensions of courage. The first is the management of our fear. So sometimes people are afraid, disproportionate to any real risk. And the second is our willingness to take action in the presence of it. So some people are born a little more uptight and anxious and naturally more kind of cautious and risk averse than others.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
And so they'll often feel a little more fearful when it comes to doing something, to going on an adventure, to putting themselves out there. And so I think everyone has the capacity for courage from the most timid and cautious to the most bold, you know, risk-taking people that we think of, Bear Grylls, Richard Branson, you know, the Navy SEALs.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
But everyone has this capacity to build courage and to take action in the presence of their fears and doubts. But what it looks like for each of us can be very different.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Absolutely. Yes. Fear, that emotion of fear. Let's just be clear. We wouldn't be here as a species if we didn't feel afraid. So I think fear gets a bad rap like, ah, you know, if we could just eradicate fear, fear is the enemy. No, fear is not the enemy. Fear is what's
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
helped all of us avoid doing stupid things, particularly in our younger years when we may have felt a little more invulnerable to the dangers of the world. So it's not that fear is a bad thing. And so sometimes our fear is alerting us to a legitimate danger. You know, don't dive into that river. You don't know how deep it is. Don't run across the freeway.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Don't invest money with this person because something's coming up. You've got this feeling like they're just not to be trusted. So to be clear, fear Fear isn't the enemy. It is not about fear eradication.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
It's about fear management and being able to discern what fears are serving me, what fears are enabling me to use my time and my talents and my energy toward things that enrich my life and what fears are actually keeping me from doing those very things.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
you're afraid of the sting of rejection and uh it's that and it's actually not the rejection itself it's what we make it mean that i'm not good enough if you knew that you know if you didn't if we didn't internalize that rejection as a judgment that we are inadequate that we're not cute enough that we're not popular enough that we're not smart enough then we would just ask them.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
We'd go, hey, do you want to go out on a date? And if they said no, you go, oh, well, whatever. But we don't do that because we just want to avoid the chance of them saying, oh, no, thank you. Oh, thanks, but no thanks. And like, oh. I'm not good enough. And I think, you know, this can apply to people who are 16 years old and they want to invite someone to the prom.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
And it can apply to someone, I've got friends who are 56 years old and they're like, oh, I'd really like to meet someone. But, oh, and it's like, I don't want to have to feel the uncomfortable emotions that may come my way if I do put myself out there. You know, it could be applying for another job. It could be inviting someone on a date.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
It could be just a platonic, reaching out to someone you'd like to get to know better. And so we often hold back. You know, procrastination is just a way to avoid, it's a tactic to avoid the discomfort of trying something and not doing well.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
Well, people will rarely say, I don't want to feel those emotions. Actually, what they'll usually say is, I'm just too busy. Or there'll be some other reason. It's not always that, oh, I don't want to feel those emotions. It's like, oh, no, it's just not the right time. Or it's not so bad right now. And we'll come up with a whole lot of other reasons that give us air cover.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
So I would just be going, okay, so let's pull this back. What have you got to lose? And, you know, well, at the end of the day, I've got to lose a little bit of face here. I've got to lose my pride a little bit. Like, I don't want to feel that way. And then I'm like, what have you got to gain? And, you know, we don't know what we don't experience when we don't be brave, right?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
We don't know that, hey, we could have met some awesome person or we could have gone to some event and met a whole lot of people or landed some great opportunity. We don't know what we don't get because we stuck with what was safe. So, often our attention zeros in on what could go wrong or what could be lost and we really just quickly pass by, well, what is it that you could be losing?
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
You know, practice the one minute rule that one brave minute, like in one minute of brave action could open up a whole lot of opportunities that you just don't even know about. When we give ourselves permission to feel anything, it actually opens us up for everything.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
What's the opportunity cost of you not doing this? And so, you know, in my book, I talk about, you know, practice the one-minute rule that one brave minute, like in one minute of brave action could open up a whole lot of opportunities that you just don't even know about. But just recognizing that when we give ourselves permission to feel anything, It actually opens us up for everything.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
A hundred percent. Absolutely. You know, people who land on the top of the mountain and I'm not saying we all want to land on the top of a mountain, but people who land there didn't just get there by accident. It's because they were just putting themselves out there, trying things, doing things, failing a lot. You know, the most successful people aren't people who haven't failed.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
They've failed way more than the average person, but they don't let the failures define them. They learn from them.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
we're all going to fail either we're going to try things and fail or we're going to fail to try things in which case there's there's valuable learning either way and often we brush past it and we don't want to really look at it because it's a little uncomfortable to look at sometimes it's it's revealing to us like something we don't really want to see but giving yourself permission to risk what i call a worthy failure a worthy failure is pursuing something
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
where there's a risk of failure, but it honors the person you want to become. You know, it could be in a work setting. It could be in a relationship. It could be going off traveling somewhere. But I mightn't land this perfectly, but I'm always going to be proud of myself that I tried to do it. That's it. And if you fail, it was worthy. It was worthy. You honored yourself.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
You honored what it is you really wanted to do. And here's what... All the research shows, and my own experience shows too, Mike, that when we do risk those worthy failures, we never regret them. And here's why. When you don't try something, you don't change. You don't learn information. You don't meet new people. You don't discover something else that does work. You don't expand your world.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
You stick exactly where you are. When you try things, even when you fail...
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
sometimes you meet new people you gain new knowledge you realize oh i can handle stuff like that you discover things about yourself you discover often things that do work and so we need to you know give ourselves permission to kind of blunder imperfectly forward not in a reckless way i'm not talking about not thinking about what are the what are the risks that you need to be managing but just in a thoughtful way knowing that
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
It's through our inaction that our comfort zone gets smaller and smaller. But when you're doing things, you're like, ah, you know, I'd really like to learn something new. I'd really like to change this thing. And you know what? I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing, but I'm going to start stepping toward it.
We Can Do Hard Things
How to Survive This Absurd Life with Samantha Irby (Best Of)
You are always going to end up being a bigger, braver version of the person that you have it within you to become than had you not done it. And we often discount the cost of inaction.