Laurie Levenson
Appearances
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Well, in the legal case right now, Sean Diddy Combs is a defendant in a federal racketeering case. And that's a really serious case. And he is charged with running a criminal enterprise that involves sex trafficking, bribery, kidnapping, assault, a range of activity where basically he would allegedly use women. He would pay them off in order to have his freak off parties.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
No, it's actually not a legal defense. It's sort of a phrase to say, oh, well, they both agree to this behavior and therefore where's the harm? And I think as Bev previewed, there's a lot of harm and people don't always agree. They feel pressured to agree. So you won't find in the law books a mutual abuse defense.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
What you'll see are defendants arguing, well, I really thought that the victim was consenting because they were doing it to me and therefore I could do it to them. It is not okay in the criminal law world to to abuse somebody and then say, well, they're at fault too.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Well, I think the defense here is just trying to reframe this whole case as this other world that the jury might not be familiar with, where people engage in these types of sexual activities and even abusive activities, and that the government has just put them on trial for being different. The prosecutors have to remind them that this case is about real harm, harm to victims.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
And victims, frankly, even if they're pressured, they can't give away their well-being, their physical well-being. The law is there to protect them. So I think the defense here is trying to reframe this as, gee, that's just how the world of rock and roll works. And these people wanted to be part of it. So they're not truly victims.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Thank you so much. Thank you for having us.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
I just feel like... Do you know who the legal advisor was for that movie? No. You're looking at her.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Well, that's such a great question and why this case is really important. because it's not just what's happening with Combs and his close associates. It's going to be how people think about relationships in all sorts of industries. So this is a case that gets the public to take a look at what is okay in and how we are treated. Because there'll be people saying, why did she stay with Combs?
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Weren't they paid? Isn't that something that they wanted to happen? To really understand, no, it is still coercive, even if somebody finally just goes along with it because they've given up.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
Apropos to what you were saying, we are in sort of this cycle where the public thinks they know somebody because that person's a star. And we saw that with OJ. And even though OJ was acquitted of the murders, it did come out in the trial that he was a serial abuser. They had been called out the police eight times. Wow. to deal with his abuse. And I don't think the public knew that about OJ.
It's Been a Minute
Diddy, Cassie, & the anatomy of "mutual abuse"
And I don't think the public wanted to believe that about OJ.