Laura Edwards-Leeper
Appearances
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
What is the other option? I believe that we have hurt patients. We hurt them. And why would I want to support anything that continues doing that?
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
If we want medicine to be a consumer state, and then it all becomes patient satisfaction, right? That's not what I want medicine to be. Is that really what we want medicine to be? Is it all about, at the end of the day, is it actually just about patient satisfaction? Right?
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
There is absolutely no way that these patients were in the right mental health. place to be able to make any long-term decisions about their health, let alone decisions about gender transitioning as a child. And then the next thing you know, we're giving that next patient hormones too.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Like actual evidence-based care. Care that meets a gold standard of what evidence is.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Yeah, I mean, his team is working to uphold a law that I currently support. So yeah, we're on the same page with that.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Well, on some level, I mean, there is queer theory that does want there to be the dismantling of the family and society.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Adults get to make choices about their own bodies that are different from children's. I don't talk about it much, but it was traumatizing to work in that center. It was, I came home from work
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
in tears and could not fall asleep at night because I knew that the next day we would have a certain patient coming in where the team was in chaos over whether or not they were actually meeting criteria and knowing that all of my professional assessments are going to be overridden and I would have no ethical say. I am at peace and have so much more calm and sense of self on this side.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
So sidebar, you might not know this, but I experienced intense gender dysphoria as a child. Some of my first memories were very intense. I was a kid who did not understand why I didn't have certain body parts. I almost medically transitioned a number of times in my life. I bear physical scars from self-harming, experienced really difficult adolescence around it also.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
So I am not naive to those feelings. And one of the things that came up in the center often was really wanting those kids to get more therapeutic supports. because they were not getting therapy. They were just getting hormones.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
there's an assumption there that medicine today can figure out who that one kid is and all the others. And the problem that I saw working in the center and this care now is that not only can people not say how they know for sure that that's the one kid that would actually long, long, long-term benefit with the least amount of medical harm,
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
They can't even tell me or be clear about how they can identify this person. And then they also aren't trying. So if you could convince me that these centers in the country actually give a shit about figuring out who this one kid is and not just medicalizing all of these other kids. Because the collateral damage right now is it's not this kid. It's all of them.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
The parents said, no, these doctors would push and push and push and push. And every single visit, it would be push some more. And they'd straight up tell us this. I feel like I have been bullied into saying yes. And somehow the doctors thought that that was a true good consent.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
We are transitioning all of, to me, it's almost like a 15 to 1 ratio. We're transitioning medically all of these kids with the hope that we catch this one. If these centers actually really cared about that one, then they also need to really care about these other 15 because we should not be medicalizing them.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Again, I don't think that the way to judge the provision of medical care is customer satisfaction. It has to be evidence, longitudinal evidence.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
But on the flip side, gender doesn't have to be that serious though either. Their kid is not going to fall apart because they actually experienced their natal puberty. It really is not a crisis tomorrow. I still don't see that. No, I actually think the best way to help these kids is to less focus on this. We're telling children, you're leading, you're in charge.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
That does not do well with children's mental health. And I actually think as a society as a whole, we need to kind of roll back this whole, let the child lead, children are... No, no, no, no, no. Like parents need to step up and these parents needed to tell their child, even if you cannot have access to this medication at this time, your body is still perfect and whole.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
We will get you the help that you need. You have support. We are here. You are going to be okay. You can make it through this. Kids need to be taught resilience, and that is not that they require some intervention that demands that their body not go through its natal puberty. Like, they can survive. It is okay. That dog is probably driven. Look at these cats. Archie's the one that goes out.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Go catch him off. Pickles, come on. Look, my watch just told me it's time for bed.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Oh, yeah, of course. Thank you for asking good questions, too. I always appreciate dialogue and I always want to be challenged.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
No, I will. I sleep well. I have an episode of Star Trek to watch. Good night. Good night. Back in.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
I just had to go to who is there. And I live in a state where the people who are in these offices are Republicans.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my face has been out there. So, yeah. Is Azeen coming out?
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
I mean, if I can help in any way or answer any questions, I don't know.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Um, do you know? This is tricky because I don't... Yeah, no, do you know?
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
So why would it go in an affidavit? Because to me, I believed it was true because it was reported to me by the nurse.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
So, unfortunately, I don't know that it never existed. I still cannot clarify that.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Okay. Okay. I... I am totally willing to engage in a dialogue if you find this helpful in any way. If this is just frustrating you, I don't want to contribute to your continued frustration.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
And that was the goal. My goal is to stop this care. My goal is to stop medically. Based on what? Based on a lie? No. And so if you don't. Based on a lie. No. It honestly... You never saw my daughter's chart. No, but I saw every single other chart in the affidavit. That was literally the only one, and there's text messages... Put it in the fucking affidavit.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
At the very beginning, I immediately could see that there were a lot of gaps. So in medicine, most places will have standard operating procedures. They'll have policies.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
I wasn't as nervous until I talked to my own attorneys a little bit ago and... He reminded me not to talk to anybody if they're in the hallway that is like protesters or mean people.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Those individuals are going to be the people that are going to hold on to this the longest.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
The belief that they made the right choice for their kids the longest. They have to. They... wrapped their kid into something, and they're going to be the ones that will never let this go. There will never be a period where they will not personally probably hate every single individual who's publicly stood in opposition to these interventions.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Those interventions didn't exist before. 20 years ago, and their kid could have been happy and doing well if we gave them a different set of care. If their child had these exact same feelings in 1990, their child would not have had access to this. They would have had access to psychotherapy and potentially could have also ended up happy.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
Yes. But I also thought the right thing was within guidelines and structure. And I thought the right thing was based on really solid evidence. longitudinal studies. I didn't know then what I know now.
The Protocol
The Whistleblower
The Dutch did all of this basically for this one tiny cohort. How did that jump from there to here? And how the hell did GEMS open? How did they bring an experimental procedure from a foreign country into the United States to start in a United States pediatric center and not have to have clinical research? Like this is like clinical research ethics like 101, right?