Kyle Carberry
Appearances
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
100%.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Step one for them, we try to make it remarkably easy for the dev. We never gate any features ever for the developer. They'll click that link that their platform team sends out. They'll sign in with OIDC or Google, and they'll really just press one button to create a development environment. Now that might provision like a Kubernetes pod or an AWS VM.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
You know, we'll show the user what's provisioned, but they don't really have to care. From that point, you'll see a couple of buttons appear to open the editors that you're used to, like VS Code Desktop or, you know, VS Code through the web. Or you can install our CLI. Through our CLI, you really just log into Coder and we take care of everything for you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
When you SSH into a workspace, you don't have to worry about keys. It really just kind of like beautifully, magically works in the background for you and connects you to your workspace. We actually connect peer to peer as well. You know, if the coder server goes down for a second because of an upgrade, you don't have to worry about disconnects. And we always get you the lowest latency possible.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
One of our core values is we'll never be slower than SSH, period, full stop. And so we connect you peer to peer directly to the workspace. So it feels just as native as it possibly could.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Hey friends, I'm here with Dave Rosenthal, CTO of Sentry. So Dave, I know lots of developers know about Sentry, know about the platform, because hey, we use Sentry and we love Sentry. And I know tracing is one of the next big frontiers for Sentry. Why add tracing to the platform? Why tracing and why now?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Hey friends, you know we're big fans of fly.io and I'm here with Kurt Mackey, co-founder and CEO of Fly. Kurt, we've had some conversations and I've heard you say that public clouds suck. What is your personal lens into public clouds sucking and how does Fly not suck?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
So AWS was built for a different era, a different cloud era. And Fly, a public cloud, yes, but a public cloud built for developers who ship. That's the difference. And we, here at ChangeLog, are developers who ship. So you should trust us. Try out Fly, fly.io. Over 3 million apps, that includes us, have launched on Fly.io.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
They leverage the global anti-cast load balancing, the zero config private networking, hardware isolation, instant wire guard VPN connections with push button deployments, scaling to thousands of instances. This is the cloud you want. Check it out, fly.io. Again, fly.io. And I'm also here with Kyle Carberry, co-founder and CTO over at Coder.com. And they pair well with fly.io.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Coder is an open source cloud development environment, a CDE. You can host this in your cloud or on premise. So, Kyle, walk me through the process. A CDE lets developers put their development environment in the cloud, walk me through the process. They get an invite from their platform team to join their coder instance. They got to sign in, set up their keys, set up their code editor.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Very cool. Thank you, Kyle. Well, friends, it might be time to consider a cloud development environment, a CDE. And open source is awesome. And Coder is fully open source. You can go to Coder.com right now, install Coder open source, start a premium trial, or get a demo. For me, my first step, I installed it on my Proxmox box and played with it. It was so cool. I loved it. Again, Coder.com.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
That's C-O-D-E-R.com.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
I love it. Okay, so they mean it when they say code breaks. Fix it faster with Sentry. More than 100,000 growing teams use Sentry to find problems fast, and you can too. Learn more at Sentry.io. That's S-E-N-T-R-Y.io. And use our code CHANGELOG. Get $100 off the team plan. That's almost four months free for you to try out Sentry. Once again, Sentry.io.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
What's up friends? I'm here in the breaks with Dennis Pilarinos, founder and CEO of Unblocked. Check them out at getunblocked.com. It's for all the hows, whys, and WTFs. So Dennis, you know we speak to developers. Who is Unblocked best for? Who needs to use it?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
I think our listeners are really familiar with AI tooling, very familiar with code generation, LLMs. How is unblocked different from what else is out there?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Okay, the next step to get unblocked for you and your team is to go to getunblocked.com. Yourself, your team can now find the answer they need to get their jobs done and not have to bother anyone else on the team, take a meeting, or waste any time whatsoever. Again, getunblocked.com. That's G-E-T-U-N-B-L-O-C-K-E-D.com. And get unblocked.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Games. Simple games like that are kind of cool, honestly. And the with friends phrase is kind of cool. It's great, yeah. Courage with friends. It is cool, yeah. Chats with friends.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Give me a glimpse into the inevitable future. What are you driving towards?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
What's up, nerds? Welcome back. This is The Change Log. We feature the hackers, the leaders, and those who are moving software forward. On today's show, we're joined by John Nunemaker. He's sharing his new thesis for acquiring Rails-based SaaS applications. His early days were...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Well, it's mostly the saturation in the podcast space that I think I was concerned about because we are in that space. And there's been a lot of consolidation, and there's also been – like Chartable just shut down. It's in the process of shutting down. Like it was acquired by Spotify. They're keeping the necessary features inside of the core. I think it's – is it Anchor, Jared? Megaphone?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Right. And then you got to compete with free. You know, this is a behemoth. They're going to put things out for free. So you got to compete with free. Right. And so I think my concern was really around just the saturation and the competing with free because that's hard. Right. And, you know, what we talked about. Can I share some of the things you talked about? Yeah. You cool with that?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
We were just talking about the churn or lack of churn with customers and how there was not churn going away. They were staying there. There was steady income over a period of time that made sense to give you at least enough foundation to say this is a safe bet. And zooming back out a bit to maybe eight minutes ago, you were saying, could we do this?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And you have a lot of friends who say, yeah, you probably could do this. I also agree. I think you could probably do this. We're betting hard on podcasting, obviously. We have gone the route of...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
build it versus buy it in our case but because that's our business model in terms of sponsors partners just the way we went you know infrastructure partners are core to our business model really and i think we're a unique scenario in the podcasting world in the fact that we podcast around software development software engineering business growth things like that and we also benefit from the various partners we can work with and attract because they have awesome platforms
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And I couldn't imagine us doing what we do hosted somewhere else. We just would not have the same clout, I would say, in those cases where we can actually eat the dog food or drink the champagne and share the sentiment of the taste of the grapes.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And it's Rails. So, I mean, how hard could it be, right? It's Rails. So, you know that pretty well. Even yourself, you can take Garrett's opinion, you know, at its face value, but you can also dig in one layer. And you've worked with Garrett for many years. So, he's not going to wrong you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Dan, the jury's out on Dan. I'm sorry, Dan. I got to say that. Dan might rock. I'm just kidding. We don't know. We don't know about Dan. Yeah, that's funny.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
The model wasn't in place, though. That's why. Because we ran it, the model of the business was different then.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
It's been a bit. We haven't had him on in a while. I think the last show he was on was AFK.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
It's too long, and that's not okay.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
What's up, friends? I'm here in the breaks with Kyle Carberry, co-founder and CTO over at Coder.com. Coder is an open source cloud development environment, a CDE. You can host this in your cloud or on premise. So, Kyle, walk me through the process. A CDE lets developers put their development environment in the cloud. Walk me through the process.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Okay. Let's see you get there. Let's see you get there tomorrow. Yeah. Perfectly. How will systems be different? How will teams be different as a result?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
They get an invite from their platform team to join their Coder instance. They got to sign in, set up their keys, set up their code editor.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Step one for them, we try to make it remarkably easy for the dev. We never gate any features ever for the developer. They'll click that link that their platform team sends out. They'll sign in with OIDC or Google, and they'll really just press one button to create a development environment. Now that might provision like a Kubernetes pod or an AWS VM.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
You know, we'll show the user what's provisioned, but they don't really have to care. From that point, you'll see a couple of buttons appear to open the editors that you're used to, like VS Code Desktop or, you know, VS Code through the web. Or you can install our CLI. Through our CLI, you really just log into Coder and we take care of everything for you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
When you SSH into a workspace, you don't have to worry about keys. It really just kind of like beautifully, magically works in the background for you and connects you to your workspace. We actually connect peer to peer as well. You know, if the coder server goes down for a second because of an upgrade, you don't have to worry about disconnects. And we always get you the lowest latency possible.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
One of our core values is we'll never be slower than SSH, period, full stop. And so we connect you period to period directly to the workspace. So it feels just as native as it possibly could.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Very cool. Thank you, Kyle. Well, friends, it might be time to consider a cloud development environment, a CDE. And open source is awesome. And Coder is fully open source. You can go to Coder.com right now, install Coder open source, start a premium trial, or get a demo. For me, my first step, I installed it on my Proxmox box and played with it. It was so cool. I loved it. Again, Coder.com.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
That's C-O-D-E-R.com.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
So I think multiples are always challenging, you know, cause it's like you could sit there and, and split hairs over multiples, you know, one, two, three. And then especially when somebody built this thing and it's their labor of love and it's been this thing they care for and they got friends on the inside. It's like, well now you're, Now you're not just offending me on my multiple.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Now you're offending me on my work. You're not valuing what I've done. That's good that you were able to come to terms fairly quickly, at least based on this text thread that you briefly shared on the Acquiring Fireside blog post. It was a pretty quick deal.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Well, yeah, it was a pretty quick deal.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I love it. Okay, so they mean it when they say code breaks. Fix it faster with Sentry. More than 100,000 growing teams use Sentry to find problems fast, and you can too. Learn more at Sentry.io. That's S-E-N-T-R-Y.io. And use our code CHANGELOG. Get $100 off the team plan. That's almost four months free for you to try out Sentry. Once again, Sentry.io.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Yeah. Can't do that.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
You mentioned this was financed. Yes. And that means that you're not technically using your own money or using future money. Now, you've also based the payoff on cash flow. So you've weighed the risk. Is this one of the biggest risks financially you've taken in a software business?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Because it seems like everything else you've, not homegrown, but bootstrapped, and it's been sort of a safe growth and safe entrance. Even if it's been a failure or not great or whatever the outcome, it seems kind of like your biggest risk.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
on his next big thing called Very Good Software and recently acquired Fireside, a podcast hosting service started by Dan Benjamin. This comes after many years since John's acquisition of a lifetime of Speaker Deck to GitHub, which laid the foundation for these moves.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
That's okay. I think so. I mean, I think it seems like a big bet, mainly because while you know Rails and you know SaaS applications, I think that hosting podcasts, there are some preeminent, worthy opponents out there. And while you don't have a ton of churn, you mentioned to Jared earlier that there is negative growth, so there is some churn. You now have to do something to grow this thing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I just wonder how impossible it is for you to, with your outlook on even focus, define, and maybe not in 2024, but maybe 2025, you start to define some of these feature sets. that you can utilize and deploy to attract. I'm hearing your story. We've talked a lot about business and financials and semantics really of the choice, not so much what you're actually doing or what you'll do with it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
If I zoom out, I think it's very much the hub or could be the hub of the many spokes you can build with very good software. This company you're in a form or you formed.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I think that when you have a media-esque or a media-styled business, which very much a podcast hosting business could be, the media side of it could be adjacent to it and the core product software could be, you know, they could live side by side in terms of brand. But in business, it could be literally two different businesses, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
This could be very much the beginning of a hub, a very big hub for you to establish more spokes to. I'm thinking like if this was very big for you, Flipper could be more well-known because you use Flipper to support and test your different feature sets with Fireside.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And as that gets awareness and growth, then so does Flipper and every other thing that you can acquire along the way to support this hub.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I'm like, how did you know that? Oh, yeah. I said that on a podcast. Dang. Exactly. I forgot I told you guys that. I told the world.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
John, the last time we had you on this network was the acquisition of a lifetime. And I think that might potentially set the foundation for this thesis and these moves you're making because you not only were working at GitHub, you also pulled away some money as a result of this acquisition of a lifetime. Maybe that's the best place to begin.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
That's why I laughed. Yeah, yep, it is.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Pass all them laws, man. I have to draw this corollary because I just have to. Are you a fan of Silicon Valley?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Okay. When I say the name Keenan Feldspar, what do you think of?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Okay, I'll prime you then. And the audience is right there on the tip because they're super fans like I am. So Ken Feldspar was introduced, I believe, in season four. Okay. He was played by Haley Joel Osment. Oh, yeah. Who was from The Sixth Sense. That was his claim to fame was that very first movie. I think it was one of his first. An AI, artificial intelligence.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Yeah, lots of stuff when you're a kid. Yeah. And so this was later on. And so you remind me a little bit of Kenan, not so much in demeanor and look, but mostly... Do you see dead people? No, not this at all. But Kenan could not fail. If he wanted it, he got it. If he thought he can get more money... This is a compliment. He can get more money. It is.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
It was almost as if he could just fall bass-ackwards into something. Great. You know? Sounds like less of a compliment now. That's good. I think you have, Kenan had good instincts as well, but it was like everything he touched turned to gold. It was a Midas touch. So he couldn't almost go the wrong way. His VR company, just to set the stage a little bit, eventually sold to Hooli for billions.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Yes. Oh, I remember that. It did make phones catch on fire.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Just give us a synopsis, a real quick summary for those who don't want to go back and listen to Finers Talk 79.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And lots of bad things happened. Sorry to plot kill for certain folks, but whatever. Spoiler alert. If you haven't watched by now, man, you got problems.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Catch up. So you kind of remind me of Keenan Felspar.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I didn't call you Ehrlich Bachman. Exactly, yeah, yeah. I could have called you Ehrlich.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I wonder if it could be bigger than this conservative dream.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I guess I don't mean bigger company-wise, like people-wise, but trajectory and target in terms of ability to capture the market. I don't know if you have to be necessarily bigger people-wise to be bigger from a revenue target or market capture perspective.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Three is too many in one year. I would agree with that.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I say don't. Don't exit.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Andrew Wilkinson's very smart. What's the tiny model? So Andrew Wilkinson was one of the co-founders, I believe, of MetaLab. He and his brother, I believe, were doing this. They were very successful with being a great design company and a services company.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
They're famously known for their work on Slack, which I think Slack was so good, not just because it was a good idea, but also because of their tremendous work on that. And just like you, John, Andrew began to read and study Warren Buffett and was like, well, he took the same approach with acquiring companies, not having to think too deeply, going through all this crazy due diligence.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
It was more like if I can't in a short amount of time – and I'm paraphrasing because I haven't read the essays – If I can't in a short amount of time understand if it's a yes or a no, then it's probably a no. I should be able to look at some key metrics and be like a yes or a no pretty quickly. And Andrew formed literally a fund, I believe, and then a holding company called Tiny.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I believe it's at tiny.co if I can recall correctly. And Tiny's model was to acquire, they acquired Dribbble, they acquired Designer News, they'd acquired so many others. Aeropress. Aeropress. The coffee company? Yeah. They just came out. That's crazy.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Anyways, maybe I should buy the glass one. Coffee dreams. Yeah, just his model was let me just buy, I think, just this model of tiny or smaller companies and created a fund and has gotten very successful with that process of just vetting out worthy buys and holding them. Now at the same time, I think he's sold a couple.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Well, we said that 10 years ago, didn't we, Jared? Like eight years ago, we're like, would we be here in five or eight? I remember I said something like that. Where would we be?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And here we, you know, we are still here. We are.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
It's kind of funny, though. You're hypothesizing from a lily pad, right? I think of this as like a frog in a pond with various lily pads, some further away, some smaller, some bigger. Maybe there's a crocodile in there. Maybe there's a predator that can get you or whatever.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And you're on the lily pad and you're hypothesizing about which lily pad or path makes the most sense to get back to the shore or to get to wherever your goal might be. It could be this other lily pad with a flower on it and a fellow frog that you like.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I think the only change I would do... You're safe. You're on the safe ground. You kind of know where you're at. You have some stability.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
What's up, friends? I'm here with a new friend of ours over at Assembly AI, founder and CEO Dylan Fox. Dylan, tell me about Universal One. This is the newest, most powerful speech AI model to date. You released this recently. Tell me more.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
We discuss the importance of cash flow, customer retention, the challenges of SaaS, valuation of software companies, the risks and rewards of acquisition, his long-term vision for Fireside, and the other ventures. We go deep, and I know you're going to love it. A massive thank you to our friends and our partners over at Fly.io. Yes, that's the home of changelog.com.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Very cool. So Dylan, one thing I love is this playground you have. You can go there, assemblyai.com slash playground, and you can just play around with all the things that is assembly. Is this the recommended path? Is this the try before you buy experience? people do?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Okay. Constantly updated speech AI models at your fingertips. Well, at your API fingertips, that is. A good next step is to go to their playground. You can test out their models for free right there in the browser, or you can get started with a $50 credit at assemblyai.com slash practical AI. Again, that's assemblyai.com slash practical AI.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And I'm also here with Dennis Pilarinos, founder and CEO of Unblocked. Check them out at getunblocked.com. Unblocked helps developers to find the answers they need to get their jobs done. So Dennis, you know we speak to developers. Who is Unblocked best for? Who needs to use it?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
The next step to get unblocked for you and your team is to go to getunblocked.com. Yourself, your team can now find the answers they need to get their jobs done and not have to bother anyone else on the team, take a meeting or waste any time whatsoever. Again, getunblocked.com. That's G-E-T-U-N-B-L-O-C-K-E-D dot com. And get unblocked.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
It's very smart, I think, because you're so comfortable in the Rails world. I think it's smart because, yeah, Rails is mature enough that there are several opportunities out there just sort of waiting in a way. And, you know, you could be a friend. You can bring something to it. You can give something new life. You can have somebody get liquidity out or some sort of exit that might make sense.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
You can satisfy the existing customer base. You can bring it into the fold and grow it more and bigger. If we go back to the hub and spoke idea, I think, and I don't know exactly how far you go in to begin to decide which really is your hub, but if you can start to surround this hub with various things that make the compliment possible,
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
you know, this thesis, this idea of like, enjoy what you do, enjoy the process, create enough revenue to support other people, bring them in, everybody wins, and you just kind of rinse and repeat. I think the question Jared's asking is like, at one point, can you exit that?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And I think if you're enjoying it for the next 12 years, there's an obvious exit that can come about if you're building value. So I don't really, I personally wouldn't care that much or concern that much. With the exit strategy, they do say every time you enter into a business or a room that you should, you know, Jason Bourne it, you should plan your exit, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
You should never go into something that, and you don't have some sort of like fail safe or what if this went to zero or exit strategy. I mean, it is smart. But I think if you're comfortable with this Rails model and this is only Rails SaaS apps, it would be kind of not so much easy necessarily, but you can see a clear path in terms of the word easy being applied.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
You can see a clear path that even the code base is getting refactored the same way or having similarities across them or services that you're buying once or you have one relationship then benefit the whole entire pool. That's why I like the lily pad analogy.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Predictability is good too, though. I mean, you're trying to do a lot. Your footprint gets wider. I think... Back to the lily pad's idea is that really it's predictability. Yes. Right? Why are we going to go back to the lily pad again? Well, because I think when you judge where you jump, you think predictability is assurance that it doesn't go underwater.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
You know, you want assurance and predictability in these maneuvers, especially as you widen your pool. That's, I mean, that's how I would approach it is you want some assurances.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Fantastic. You save the audience, let's say, an hour-ish, I want to say, of their life unless they want to go. Right. 79 minutes. Of having to go listen to Founders Talk 79. Are you a GPT?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Three was correct.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
All right. So to set the premise of what I mean by foundation, you shared a post, I want to say about a week-ish ago, acquiring Fireside. But part of this post, you mentioned this thesis you have of acquiring Rails applications because you're a Rails developer. GitHub was an early Rails application, still is a Rails application.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
The fund could easily be replaced by a pool of people that are just simply angel investors though. It doesn't have to literally be a fund. Yes, agreed. That has capital and it has to deploy by a certain time frame, which is really how funds work in most cases. It would have to be formalized, yeah. Right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I didn't see those words.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I come in as a skeptic and then I come out as a believer. And in a lot of cases, not every case though, there's been several cases where we potted with people and I'm like, nah, at the end still yet. Sure.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Well, the question you have to always ask yourself is when you take any bet is what if it does go to zero? That's the obvious prudent question to ask. Of course. Do I lose my house? Regardless of conviction, you know?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
yeah change though you still have to change which of course can be hard but you you know you can float the only constant is change though yeah positive or negative says the people who've been doing the same thing for 15 years but but then i uh then i followed up with like 17 maybe maybe 45 000 good ideas you know he wrote down immediately at least that's the other thing that adam gets and i've told a lot of other people you know and then he was like i can't give you any more
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
You're a Rails developer, and you're in this position, and I'm not going to read the post for you, but essentially you're in this position to acquire and grow some Rails apps where the original founders may be ready to leave or looking for an injection or just something where you can begin to build out this portfolio of primarily, to my knowledge, Rails-based companies.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
This is his leverage. It's good ideas. I tell anybody that. I can only give you one or two for free. The rest you got to pay me for. That's right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
come on get him in john get him in there you know we're obviously long podcasting i think it's a great medium you know we have i've even posed this question to jared a couple times like why should we ever do a host and i think jared what was your sentiment always pushing back it was always like compete with free saturation the marketplace things like that
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I'm not sure that's where I would actually begin, though.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
No, like spin off some of the things we've built as software into its own standalone business, because we've got enough street cred to do it. Sure.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Yes. The challenge, though. So I hear you on that. But then if we begin to leverage our distribution, then it's like, well, are they saying this or doing this because... Yes, you have to be careful. Are they pimping their own stuff, basically, is the easiest way to phrase that. Well, it clearly would be.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
We try to be as best we can be calculated. And I think the thing that's kept us from doing other things has been keep the main thing the main thing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And every time we feel like we're going too fast, we say what? Slow down and check yourself. Slow down and check yourself. And then the other thing we say is give them what they came for.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Yeah. That's awesome.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Well, I'm on the money with Keenan Felspar and John Nunabaker. Okay. I mean, when the audience hears this, they're going to have to go to the hospital for their hernia in their neck. Oh, yeah. And they might even bust a gut. Gosh. Get a new monitor and everything. They spit their coffee on their monitor.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
We'll talk. There is a big upside to what you could do. I do believe it could be the hub of your scope model for this company that you're trying to build. That you are building. I think as you talk about this more, I would find a way to give people a page to go to because you're going to have inbound people either DMing you or directly coming to you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Just something to say, okay, rather than come to me and ask me a bunch of questions, go here first. This is the lens you should… If you fit this model and you're in this world, then I want to attract you and I want to help you if I can. It may not be today. We should definitely become friends. I want to put you on a list. Maybe an unordered list, potentially. Put you on a list.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And so the foundation, this acquisition of a lifetime, was a financial, in my opinion— a financial foundation to set you in a groove, put you in a good position. And then I would say, and you could probably concur with this, that that has set you in a good groove or a good motion to accomplish this very good software motion that you're working on, which is part of that post.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And if the stars begin to align, then they do. And I would definitely... If you like this and you do this and you repeat this a few times, I would 100% begin to build that angel list investor group, especially if you can help their interests align with your interests and everybody wins. And really at the end of it, it's all about having the fun, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
It's enjoying the process, having the fun, enjoying the people you're working with, and really building very good software that you can really have fun with and be proud of. Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
I believe in you. It's going to work. I believe in you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Yeah, I think you collect the right kind of people too over your career in history as a person I've just known. And more recently, the last few years, become more close with. You've been able to collect the right people and attract the right people to be friends with and to enjoy working with. I think you'll do amazing with this, man.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
On that note, John, what are you doing October 27th through October 30th? You have plans?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
What is the shirt you're wearing? Is it say less? I was trying to figure it out. It says less. It's not one of theirs, but shout out to, I thought for sure it was like a less everything shirt or something.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Quit your day job. That's the opposite. Exactly. Keep your day job. Yeah. I follow some people on YouTube that RV, they say keep your daydream.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Yeah, I think if you could, if somebody could recreate the essence of what they did well with less conf, it would be amazing. That's a good idea.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
You too. Okay, a little existential threat there at the end of the show for Jared and I, questioning whether or not we'll be here in 2026. Now, it is 2024. 2025 is right around the corner. But you know what? There's so much change happening out there. There's so much change in the world. And the only constant is change. So will we be here? Will Jared and I be here?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Will you be here in 2026 listening to the show? I sure hope so. I sure hope so. I'll tell you where I know we will be. Jared and I, in three weeks, will be in Raleigh, North Carolina at All Things Open 2024. We got some free passes to give away. Free passes to an awesome conference.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And you can get those by going into our community in Zulip. Go to changelog.com slash community and just DM Jared. He'll tell you how to get them. But if not, we have a giveaway. 20% discount to give you. That's available to everyone. So go to the registration website for All Things Open. Use our code MEDIACHANGELOG20. Check the show notes for links and the code if this is confusing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
But MEDIACHANGELOG20. 20% off. All Things Open. There you go. Okay, some awesome sponsors on today's show. Sentry, check them out at sentry.io. Also, big congrats to OSS Pledge, part of something they're launching. You can learn more about that at opensourcepledge.com. Our awesome friends over at Coder, coder.com. Our friends at Assembly AI. Check them out at assemblyai.com.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And of course, our friends over at Unblocked. Check them out at getunblocked.com. Get Unblocked. Getunblocked.com. Those beats are banging. Thank you, Breakmaster. Gosh, those beats. Such good beats. That's it. The show's done. We'll see you on Friday.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Fly is a public cloud built for developers who want to be productive, want to ship, and that's us. Over 3 million apps, including us, have launched on Fly, and you should too. Learn more at fly.io. Okay, let's do this. What's up, friends? I'm here with Dave Rosenthal, CTO of Sentry.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Dan Benjamin. There you go.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Well, once you say it once, you can just say Dan now and Garrett. But the first time, please say a full name just so everybody's tracking.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
So Dave, when I look at Sentry, I see you driving towards full application health, error monitoring where things began, session replay, being able to replay a view of the interface a user had going on when they experienced an issue with full tracing, full data, the advancements you're making with tracing and profiling, cron monitoring, co-coverage, user feedback. and just tons of integrations.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Open source threaded team chat?! (Interview)
Truth.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Step one for them, we try to make it remarkably easy for the dev. We never gate any features ever for the developer. They'll click that link that their platform team sends out. They'll sign in with OIDC or Google, and they'll really just press one button to create a development environment. Now that might provision like a Kubernetes pod or an AWS VM.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
You know, we'll show the user what's provisioned, but they don't really have to care. From that point, you'll see a couple of buttons appear to open the editors that you're used to, like VS Code Desktop or, you know, VS Code through the web. Or you can install our CLI. Through our CLI, you really just log into Coder and we take care of everything for you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
When you SSH into a workspace, you don't have to worry about keys. It really just kind of like.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
beautifully magically works in the background for you and connects you to your workspace we actually connect peer-to-peer as well you know if the coder server goes down for a second because of an upgrade you don't have to worry about disconnects and we always get you the lowest latency possible one of our core values is we'll never be slower than ssh period full stop and so we connect you peer-to-peer directly to the workspace so it feels just as native as it possibly could
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Step one for them, we try to make it remarkably easy for the dev. We never gate any features ever for the developer. They'll click that link that their platform team sends out. They'll sign in with OIDC or Google, and they'll really just press one button to create a development environment. Now that might provision like a Kubernetes pod or an AWS VM.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
You know, we'll show the user what's provisioned, but they don't really have to care. From that point, you'll see a couple buttons appear to open the editors that you're used to, like VS Code Desktop or, you know, VS Code through the web. Or you can install our CLI. Through our CLI, you really just log into Coder and we take care of everything for you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
When you SSH into a workspace, you don't have to worry about keys. It really just kind of like.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
beautifully magically works in the background for you and connects you to your workspace we actually connect peer-to-peer as well you know if the coder server goes down for a second because of an upgrade you don't have to worry about disconnects and we always get you the lowest latency possible one of our core values is we'll never be slower than ssh period full stop and so we connect you peer-to-peer directly to the workspace so it feels just as native as it possibly could
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
80%.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Developer (un)happiness (Friends)
Who the hell... ...had the audacity...