Konstantin Kisin

What's also interesting about Jackson's career is that MTV at the time, that was when MTV was starting to reach its peak, early 80s.

And they were saying that they wouldn't play a black...

artist because the moment they played black artists, they said ratings would go down, viewings would go down, people wouldn't like it.

And the person who really broke through and proved that black artists could be hyper successful on TV in the mainstream

on a supposedly white inverted commas channel was Michael Jackson because he was completely undeniable.

Yeah, we had the version of that in the UK, and they were BBC radio journalists.

I can't remember the guy's name, very famous journalist.

And basically, he was this legendary figure in music, because if you were a new band, you wanted to go on his radio station, because he would play.

If he played your song, there was a good chance that it would then go on and do something.

So there was a very famous, you know the song Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?

Right.

So he broke that band.

And one of the part of the reason they went so famous.

I can't believe I've forgotten his name.

I can picture him in my head is because he played it and went, that is the most perfect rock pop song.

That's the most perfect song I've ever heard.

John Peel.

There is DJ.

That's the most perfect song I've ever heard.

He then played it again.