Katie R. Dale
Appearances
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
I think I have a, I don't know if it's affinity for things, but like when I'm, it's kind of funny, it's a quirk of mine, but when I have like a pet, like a cat or a dog around their ears, I love to put my fingers around their ears because the sensation to me is very soothing. And not everybody has that. I don't know if I've met anybody else who has that quirk.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Thank you for having me, Tony.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
But something that you can find that you know helps relieve some kind of stress like that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Okay, well, here's what not to say. I'll give you that and then I'll tell you what to do. Don't say, oh, it seems real to you. It is real to them. They're going to be experiencing it just like you and I are talking today.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
I went through psychosis to the point where I thought, I was convinced even years later, after I even wrote my book, that I had seen Tom Cruise on the sidewalk from afar. And so there's just things that you hear and see in those states that you just can't shake. Your brain is just playing such a good game with you. So don't tell somebody, oh, it seems real to you, or it's not real.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Absolutely don't go there. But you can say, kind of like Alzheimer's and dementia folks, you know, that have their own, they're in their own little world like that. You have to join them. You have to kind of just sit with it and acknowledge it.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
And when you do have the opportunity, you go to the doctor with them or you get the medications looked at because medications can very well help in a lot of cases for that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Yes, it's a trial and error. At this stage of history we are in, it's still trial and error. I'm sure, though, that with the advancements they're making in the next generation or two, we'll see so many fixes and quicker solutions to that. Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Pretty self-proclaimed. When I started blogging, I guess we could start there. I began blogging for my own website and blog back in like 2014 after I had gotten out of the hospital inpatient. So I called myself an advocate then. Got involved with some other kind of outlets with BP Magazine, going to an event with them, and then...
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Yes, yes. I don't shy away from using the term magic pill because I know there's that connotation with it. But for me personally, vilify is my magic pill. Without that five milligrams, man, I would be out in left field. So I do believe that the medicines can be found, the right medicines can be found.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Yes. So I kind of have a three-pronged business slash ministry. I'm an author, I'm an artist, and I'm an advocate. And one of those is making money for me right now. So I think I'm going to go forward starting something like freelance work on Upwork, which I already do freelance work, but I'm looking forward to doing more artwork and graphic design for people.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
But that aside, in terms of books, I am still writing and I'm working on two books at the time. They are faith-based Christian living genre with tying in my mental health with it and my background in psychology and everything. I'm actually drawing out the dynamic of hearing voices and hearing God's voice because there's a difference. And I like to explore that in what I'm writing.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
So I'm kind of bringing those two things together in the next couple of books that I have in the Christian living market. And what else am I up to? Yeah, that's where I enjoy It's a labor of love. It's what I love to do.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
From personal experience, when I heard voices in a psychotic state, they were... erratic and raspy and chanting and loud and in my inner ear like shouting other times i might have heard voices and they were so convincing i i think it was it says i'm like it was somebody in the room but as far as god's voice that according to the bible is a still small voice that we hear in our heart.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
And based on Four Keys to Hearing God's Voice through Mark Ferkler, he's the founder of Communion with God Ministries, taking out of a book of the Bible called Habakkuk. He goes into kind of defining how we can access God's voice. And that is the first key is being still. The second key is envisioning Jesus there with you in your mind's eye.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
The third key is tuning to spontaneous flow, letting things bubble up within your heart, being open to that. And then the fourth is writing it down and documenting everything. If it lines up with God and who he is in the Bible and his nature, it's God's still small voice speaking to you.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
If it doesn't line up with God and his nature and his loving, encouraging voice from the Bible, it may not be God. So, yeah, that's where I'm going with those things. And I guess I would hope that gives some clarity.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
It really has just snowballed, I guess, with my involvement with NSSC, National Shattering Science Coalition, and other ministries and nonprofits. I think that's where I started the advocate role. I also worked clinically as a social worker at an outpatient clinic in Missouri.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
At this time, I'm not doing many live events being I'm so remote. I mean, I'm going on like podcasts and summits online, but it's mostly like a one way avenue because I don't have that two way audience where I'm present with them, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
I'm at katierdale.com and I'm everywhere on, well, I say everywhere, but most places on social media. At Katie R. Dale is my handle. So it's across the board. Facebook is where I'm usually at. Starting to get into Substack. So, yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Maybe drawing out just to make a point of like, There's a lot of confusion in mental illness, but there's a lot to be said for truth. And the person of Christ who draws people to himself when our world is very broken, I think we can all agree, there's always hope.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
I think leaving you with the thought that, you know, despite how hard it is to suffer with an invisible illness like bipolar disorder or others, I find so much comfort in that knowing that Christ who lives in me has seen everything I've seen through my eyes, you know, has heard every voice and seen every vision or thought, you know, seen every thought and knows me intimately.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
And to me, that's very comforting because he is a good God and he has answered my prayers to bring me back to a whole mind. And there's hope for everyone for that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Thank you for having me, Tony. This is awesome. Thank you so much. It's great getting to chat with you and getting to know you a little bit. This has been really neat. Thank you so much.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
It probably started while I was in the hospital the first time at 16. As I'm a naturally creative, gifted person like that, I've always loved to write and draw. But channeling that, even with that insight in the hospital at 16, telling the doctor sitting there in the conference room when he's meeting with me and, you know, what do you think about this place?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
He asked, I'm going to write a book about this place. And so I did. And just that insight. kind of fulfill my dream to write, to publish a book and spread the message of, you know, this is real and it affects people that have normal, healthy, happy lives or that come from all different walks of life.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
And I think writing it was cathartic, the book, and continues to be as I write blog posts or articles. It just helps open that area up to help other people see what it's like to be going through an episode and that they can identify maybe, you know, okay, that's where she got and how she got there and gives them a reasoning behind why we think the way we do when we're in those states.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
That's an amazing, yeah, it's for whatever reason, I mean, I'm sure it's neurological and psychological and all that, but for whatever reason, I was able to capture these memories in these states of mind, like crystal clear almost. And they were so intense, these events and the episodes and the psychosis and the mania and the depression that I couldn't not think about them.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
You know, I did have a little bit of PTSD going on there, but it definitely, the capturing it in writing and the memories just helped not reliving it, but interpreting the narrative. Like, what did I go through? It was so crazy and so unreal. Like, how did I make sense of it? Well, that's how I made sense of it. I wrote it out.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
There has been good responses, I think. Because most people don't have the disorder, and I'm assuming most people who read the book don't have the disorder, it gives them an eye-opening look into what it's like. Those who have the disorder, they've reached out to me and said, oh my gosh, I've been through so many similar circumstances. You're spot on with this. You tell it the way it is.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Now, I do wonder... because I actually just came out with the audio book a couple weeks ago. I do wonder if people are listening in and like, oh, that's triggering. Like, oh, that's this. It's a little bit sensitive in some places. Talk of suicidality and spirituality. And I'm a fully open book there, literally and figuratively. So I do not put a trigger warning in the book.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
And I do wonder if people have been triggered to a degree. So that's just a kind of a thought I've had since writing it that I haven't had anybody come across with me saying, hey, that was triggering. But at the same time, it's something to know.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
So my diagnosis is bipolar disorder type 1 with a mania mostly and with psychotic features. So I had those hallucinations, delusions, hearing voices, thinking and believing grandiose things. It tied in with that mania.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
I did, yes. My family, my parents, my husband, my brother, an extended family, my aunt. cousins, people that I've known most of my life were there for me. And without them, I don't know I'd be in the same place. So crucial.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Absolutely. Yeah. Isolation and that state of mind, especially when you can get into like anosognosia where you don't realize you're sick. Like that, that's another layer where she's like, I'm the only one in it and I don't even realize I'm in it. Like that can be debilitating on its own. But yeah, for people to realize they're not alone, this is why we don't take our medicine.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
And this is why we're going through this because you have a diagnosis of an illness in your brain and it happens and you didn't do anything to cause it.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
I mean, I had people come up to me and say, oh my gosh, like the title of the book, seeing just the title or the front of the book with a cross and the pills. And it says crazy across the front because, you know, they're like, oh, that's me. I'm crazy. I could relate to that right off the bat. So-
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
There's that piece of, you know, it's almost shock value of like, hey, you know, we're all a little bit crazy and weird. But at the same time, like not everybody can relate to the bipolar psychosis. So I hope to make it more understood so that people, if they have somebody who they know, you know, family or friend to them that develops it or has had it, they have more answers to what and why.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Okay, so there are plenty of resources that I have compiled. I offer a download on my website. There's pretty much like a 10, 12-page download. You can print it out, fill it in. But it has vetted resources. I can list a few, like National Shattering Silence Coalition. They're a nationwide U.S.-based nonprofit. They're raising awareness online.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
They're doing education pieces, care groups and support groups and things, but also the other one is Treatment Advocacy Center. Very good resource for finding the support you need for an actual treatment program, assisted outpatient treatment program, AOT. It's in 48 out of 50 states right now. We're working on Massachusetts and I think Connecticut, those kinds of programs.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
There's CCBHCs, Certified Community Behavioral Health Centers in most states. Those are good programs for people, especially in the rural area. And then getting involved with, I do come from a faith background. So for those who have the faith background piece, Fresh Hope for Mental Health is
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
There's a great support group with evidence-based research, too, that backs up what they're doing with their practices. They have hope coaches. I am one of those who got trained through them to help others. And really going into more of that, another one is care ministry, Hope Made Strong. They do a summit. every year online for mostly church leadership, but anybody's welcome to join.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
I'm trying to think of some other resources. But yeah, grabbing the game plan off of my website at katierdale.com slash resources gives you all that plus more. I've got lists upon lists of just ways you can get connected and find those pathways.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
So let me give you an acronym to help remember it by. This is basically in a nutshell what it's called is motivational interviewing. And we use that in the clinician side, but it's also helpful for your loved one. You start with acronym is OARS, like OARS for a boat. So O stands for open-ended questions. Keep your questions. What, how, stay away from why.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
But those open-ended questions for them to explore with you, what they're going through, what they're feeling, what they're thinking, what they're experiencing. Hear them out as much as you can. Give them the space and the time to explain. A, the next letter in the acronym stands for affirm. So affirm. Validate. You do not have to agree.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
You do not have to value judgment a sign, like that's good or that's bad. But at least saying, I hear you, I understand, or that must be hard. I can't imagine, but that sounds really hard right now. Make them feel heard and understood through affirming them. And then R is reflections. Reflections.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
where you kind of summarize what they said to you and, in your own words, paraphrase back to them what they're feeling, thinking, going through, so that they know that you understand them to a degree as best as you can. And then ask this pretty similar reflection to summarize and wrapping up the conversation. Okay, so you must be going through this X, Y, Z, or A, B, C, and...
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
You know, just summarize, wrap it up so that there's closure for that moment, for that time.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
What's been helpful for me and I think other people is the time-based schedule. Give yourself, like I love this tool, give yourself a handful of things that need to get done and a handful of things that you want to do. and space it out like 15 minutes increments. So for the first 15 minutes, do something that you need to get done. Make yourself kind of do it.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
The next 15 minutes, relax and do something you want to do that you enjoy. That helps with your time awareness and helps you focus at those points, you know, after an hour goes by and then You realize, oh my gosh, I've gotten four things knocked out or I've been able to enjoy and I haven't really paid attention to the time. Because time can be very stressing and triggering for people.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
If they don't have a sense of purpose or if they don't have a sense of a place to go or look forward to, that can help calm somebody down and make them more productive.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
You know what? I haven't encountered that that I can recall, except when I was in the hospital and there was like a high pitch ringing because of the side effect of the medicine. And I was just freaking out, like, you know, the high sensitivity and auditory input. So definitely what helps me in those situations is holding on to something that's tactile, that's like soft or like soothing.