Justin Jackson

Oh, are we team Vercel now? Do we love Vercel? That's what you're doing? You're shifting? I'll just follow you.

Oh, are we team Vercel now? Do we love Vercel? That's what you're doing? You're shifting? I'll just follow you.

So, okay. So let's define VPS because I feel like lots of large companies manage their own infrastructure. Like they don't use... I mean, EC2 is a VPS. Okay, right. So like there's this association though with VPS. There's kind of a connotation that it's like... a digital ocean droplet is cheap and it's whatever, it's not using one of the major cloud providers.

So, okay. So let's define VPS because I feel like lots of large companies manage their own infrastructure. Like they don't use... I mean, EC2 is a VPS. Okay, right. So like there's this association though with VPS. There's kind of a connotation that it's like... a digital ocean droplet is cheap and it's whatever, it's not using one of the major cloud providers.

But a successful trip to Dallas, would you say? It was fun. Yeah, it went really well. Everything went...

But a successful trip to Dallas, would you say? It was fun. Yeah, it went really well. Everything went...

Don't you think there's, there's, it's like, I know.

Don't you think there's, there's, it's like, I know.

Yeah. On its own. And it's an AWS thing. So, like, you're not spiritually aligned with the crowd that's, like, the $5 VPS crowd, right?

Yeah. On its own. And it's an AWS thing. So, like, you're not spiritually aligned with the crowd that's, like, the $5 VPS crowd, right?

Okay, so they include AWS, yeah. They're just opposed to... Well, that's the thing. The $5 VPS crowd is sort of really angry at the Vercel and Netlify layer of cloud abstraction, which I also think is stupid and won't exist in five years. Or if it does, it'll look very different. But that's not where we live. We talked about this, at least offline. Yeah.

Okay, so they include AWS, yeah. They're just opposed to... Well, that's the thing. The $5 VPS crowd is sort of really angry at the Vercel and Netlify layer of cloud abstraction, which I also think is stupid and won't exist in five years. Or if it does, it'll look very different. But that's not where we live. We talked about this, at least offline. Yeah.

really smoothly really as far as i know i wasn't too involved in studying the stream so i don't know if there was like chaos there but it came out good it was yeah the the color temperature and all that like i just it drives me crazy when like yeah i don't get it all right and it was like trying to warm up but also get the stream going i would like to to not do camera stuff anymore i think i want to retire from knowing knowing anything about cameras

really smoothly really as far as i know i wasn't too involved in studying the stream so i don't know if there was like chaos there but it came out good it was yeah the the color temperature and all that like i just it drives me crazy when like yeah i don't get it all right and it was like trying to warm up but also get the stream going i would like to to not do camera stuff anymore i think i want to retire from knowing knowing anything about cameras

Yeah. And it doesn't feel like And I'm sure people have said this before, but it doesn't feel like extra work once you... It's not extra work once you know it, yeah. It's like, I hate the idea that just ship a thing as fast as you possibly can. It could be a piece of junk, but ship it so you can move on and make money or whatever.

Yeah. And it doesn't feel like And I'm sure people have said this before, but it doesn't feel like extra work once you... It's not extra work once you know it, yeah. It's like, I hate the idea that just ship a thing as fast as you possibly can. It could be a piece of junk, but ship it so you can move on and make money or whatever.

It's like, it doesn't take me more time to ship something with this stack that works for anything than it does... Like, I don't know what shortcuts I would take that actually save me time by using some other stack or some simpler thing.

It's like, it doesn't take me more time to ship something with this stack that works for anything than it does... Like, I don't know what shortcuts I would take that actually save me time by using some other stack or some simpler thing.

What about on the other side? Do you think anyone's building anything with Vercel slop? No, I don't think so either.

What about on the other side? Do you think anyone's building anything with Vercel slop? No, I don't think so either.

It's like cal.com. That's, that's a big one. Or did they move off Vercel?

It's like cal.com. That's, that's a big one. Or did they move off Vercel?

Can I just say when you're sick, you have like the deepest, richest voice for a podcast ever. I need you to be sick more. It just sounds really nice in my headphones. I'm sure the listeners will agree. I know.

Can I just say when you're sick, you have like the deepest, richest voice for a podcast ever. I need you to be sick more. It just sounds really nice in my headphones. I'm sure the listeners will agree. I know.

Uh-huh. I just want to... I want to do stuff with Beacon now. Like, whatever his little brain comes up with, his big brain comes up with.

Uh-huh. I just want to... I want to do stuff with Beacon now. Like, whatever his little brain comes up with, his big brain comes up with.

Yeah, that'd be great. Just seeing all those professional crews walking around and thinking like, They're going to do a better job and they're probably not that expensive. I don't know. Man, carrying my bag full of equipment around the airport was brutal. I literally have calluses on my fingers just from like a day of carrying that bag around.

Yeah, that'd be great. Just seeing all those professional crews walking around and thinking like, They're going to do a better job and they're probably not that expensive. I don't know. Man, carrying my bag full of equipment around the airport was brutal. I literally have calluses on my fingers just from like a day of carrying that bag around.

his weird brain comes up with yeah he's so into like some very specific things and like i can't imagine anyone knows more you know what he reminds me of i meant to say this to him in dallas uh in the movie dune or the books whatever the guys that can calculate what are those called that can like calculate anything yeah yeah yeah he's like that but with like with like internet lore yeah with like memes and lore like you can just tell you anything yeah

his weird brain comes up with yeah he's so into like some very specific things and like i can't imagine anyone knows more you know what he reminds me of i meant to say this to him in dallas uh in the movie dune or the books whatever the guys that can calculate what are those called that can like calculate anything yeah yeah yeah he's like that but with like with like internet lore yeah with like memes and lore like you can just tell you anything yeah

Yeah. I can see his reaction when he sees something like that. Oh, hang on. Yeah, exactly. Grab a screenshot. Okay, got it.

Yeah. I can see his reaction when he sees something like that. Oh, hang on. Yeah, exactly. Grab a screenshot. Okay, got it.

I have wondered that before. Who are these people that take screenshots? I also wonder when you see really funny memes, who are the people that make these things? And it's also vegan. It's people like vegan. They just have that brain. You can show them any random... you know, like these like cartoon images, people post of like a certain face. Yeah.

I have wondered that before. Who are these people that take screenshots? I also wonder when you see really funny memes, who are the people that make these things? And it's also vegan. It's people like vegan. They just have that brain. You can show them any random... you know, like these like cartoon images, people post of like a certain face. Yeah.

Like the Wojak or there was one, I can't remember it. Uh, it was one of the Yassine responses. I think it's like this kind of black and white drawing of a guy. I think it was his response to Adam Rackus. Uh, And like, I just knew when I saw it, like, Beacon will know what that's called. He knew immediately. And like, I didn't even show it to him. I just described it to him. He's like, oh, yeah.

Like the Wojak or there was one, I can't remember it. Uh, it was one of the Yassine responses. I think it's like this kind of black and white drawing of a guy. I think it was his response to Adam Rackus. Uh, And like, I just knew when I saw it, like, Beacon will know what that's called. He knew immediately. And like, I didn't even show it to him. I just described it to him. He's like, oh, yeah.

He really is like one of those things.

He really is like one of those things.

It's insane. It's heavy.

It's insane. It's heavy.

Yeah, I would think so. Yeah. Did we give any context? We streamed a basketball game in Dallas, normal work activities, just things, you know, average professional basketball players. Hey, we won too. How about that?

Yeah, I would think so. Yeah. Did we give any context? We streamed a basketball game in Dallas, normal work activities, just things, you know, average professional basketball players. Hey, we won too. How about that?

Yeah, I feel like we just retire now. Want to know on our our basketball career, like the terminal team never lost and never will lose because we will never play again.

Yeah, I feel like we just retire now. Want to know on our our basketball career, like the terminal team never lost and never will lose because we will never play again.

I love that as you see, you guys have the ability to go that level of abstraction. Like here is a replica zero component and everything is done. And it works with your infrastructure. It creates your infrastructure. Yeah, like front end frameworks can't do that. They don't have that power.

I love that as you see, you guys have the ability to go that level of abstraction. Like here is a replica zero component and everything is done. And it works with your infrastructure. It creates your infrastructure. Yeah, like front end frameworks can't do that. They don't have that power.

Um, cause I remember the first time you were early.

Um, cause I remember the first time you were early.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, how long has Replicash been... Like, how long ago did he start that?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, how long has Replicash been... Like, how long ago did he start that?

Yeah, it does feel like the best applications in a browser are going to be local first. It's like any trade-offs... that there are, like, oh, you're not... Like, that just needs to be solved. Like, you need to get the best of both worlds. If you need to server render stuff for whatever reasons, SEO or whatever else, like, we got to just solve that problem.

Yeah, it does feel like the best applications in a browser are going to be local first. It's like any trade-offs... that there are, like, oh, you're not... Like, that just needs to be solved. Like, you need to get the best of both worlds. If you need to server render stuff for whatever reasons, SEO or whatever else, like, we got to just solve that problem.

But there's no way, like, a multi-page app, like, using any one of the SSR frameworks is going to approach...

But there's no way, like, a multi-page app, like, using any one of the SSR frameworks is going to approach...

quality of a local first app without I guess I guess anything could be done with just enough effort but like local first gives you that like amazing application feeling everything's instant everything feels really good feels like you can solve the SSR stuff and it sounds like it already is being solved more easily than like an SSR framework can figure out how to make

quality of a local first app without I guess I guess anything could be done with just enough effort but like local first gives you that like amazing application feeling everything's instant everything feels really good feels like you can solve the SSR stuff and it sounds like it already is being solved more easily than like an SSR framework can figure out how to make

like the local first thing that make it feel local first.

like the local first thing that make it feel local first.

Because I think about this all the time with stat music. It's like, Oh, we don't have much interactivity, but then we keep adding more. It's like, Oh, we need to sprinkle in this interactivity. And it's like, at the end of the day, it doesn't feel very good because we don't have really good tools to kind of like make that all feel instant and smooth.

Because I think about this all the time with stat music. It's like, Oh, we don't have much interactivity, but then we keep adding more. It's like, Oh, we need to sprinkle in this interactivity. And it's like, at the end of the day, it doesn't feel very good because we don't have really good tools to kind of like make that all feel instant and smooth.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just do a tour of all of them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just do a tour of all of them.

It's like we started with the SSR and that kind of constrains a lot of what we can do. So, yeah, I do. I think the future is like local first with figuring out all the other things that you need to figure out. But start from that foundation because it's just going to feel better.

It's like we started with the SSR and that kind of constrains a lot of what we can do. So, yeah, I do. I think the future is like local first with figuring out all the other things that you need to figure out. But start from that foundation because it's just going to feel better.

Yeah, I feel like we'd be pretty good at other things. It worked out perfectly that there's five of us and basketball requires five people. How fun was that though? Like just the collection of people on the court, it was just pretty crazy. Like all these people you know from Twitter, all their faces are very familiar and you're running around like banging into each other playing basketball.

Yeah, I feel like we'd be pretty good at other things. It worked out perfectly that there's five of us and basketball requires five people. How fun was that though? Like just the collection of people on the court, it was just pretty crazy. Like all these people you know from Twitter, all their faces are very familiar and you're running around like banging into each other playing basketball.

Yeah, this goes to the Twitter drama. Yasin kind of pointing out the thing that he's angry about, being that it feels like the modern SaaS slop, I guess I'll call it, in honor of his coining it, that slop. He just keeps saying the word slop. That he feels like they're trying to convince new engineers that they're too dumb, they'll never figure it out. I've heard you say similar things, like,

Yeah, this goes to the Twitter drama. Yasin kind of pointing out the thing that he's angry about, being that it feels like the modern SaaS slop, I guess I'll call it, in honor of his coining it, that slop. He just keeps saying the word slop. That he feels like they're trying to convince new engineers that they're too dumb, they'll never figure it out. I've heard you say similar things, like,

Not trying to lump you in with the scene that like you agree with everything he says. Don't want to get you canceled. But the idea that there's this whole wave of like dev tools companies that are like trying to simplify in a way that just like people aren't learning things they should probably learn anymore or new engineers that are coming into the field.

Not trying to lump you in with the scene that like you agree with everything he says. Don't want to get you canceled. But the idea that there's this whole wave of like dev tools companies that are like trying to simplify in a way that just like people aren't learning things they should probably learn anymore or new engineers that are coming into the field.

It's kind of like trying to shield them from something that would be valuable lessons to learn. Do you agree with all that?

It's kind of like trying to shield them from something that would be valuable lessons to learn. Do you agree with all that?

Yeah, if I think about our early career, there could have been the generation before us looking at us writing our Java and our C Sharp and whatever and being like, this generation hadn't even learned assembly or they're not even writing stuff in C anymore. And I've gone my whole career and hadn't had to do either of those things.

Yeah, if I think about our early career, there could have been the generation before us looking at us writing our Java and our C Sharp and whatever and being like, this generation hadn't even learned assembly or they're not even writing stuff in C anymore. And I've gone my whole career and hadn't had to do either of those things.

So it's possible that this whole wave coming in now will never have to know how to manage a server or manage lower level stuff like, I don't know, Nginx and whatever else. Yeah.

So it's possible that this whole wave coming in now will never have to know how to manage a server or manage lower level stuff like, I don't know, Nginx and whatever else. Yeah.

It's just a different experience. Yeah.

It's just a different experience. Yeah.

I mean, like Vercel for me is like, it's like CICD, which just feels like a commodity at this point. I mean, like people are, that was the initial big thing. It's like, I can just push to GitHub and not think about it. It's like, yeah, you can do that with like 15 services now. Or like even the underlying stuff, it's getting easier and easier to do that with. Do you agree with that?

I mean, like Vercel for me is like, it's like CICD, which just feels like a commodity at this point. I mean, like people are, that was the initial big thing. It's like, I can just push to GitHub and not think about it. It's like, yeah, you can do that with like 15 services now. Or like even the underlying stuff, it's getting easier and easier to do that with. Do you agree with that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that the nature of like diminishing returns or something with progress and technology? No, technology historically just goes up real big. It's like a curve that keeps getting more impressive, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that the nature of like diminishing returns or something with progress and technology? No, technology historically just goes up real big. It's like a curve that keeps getting more impressive, right?

Like, I'm going to make a hosted Postgres service. It's going to be amazing.

Like, I'm going to make a hosted Postgres service. It's going to be amazing.

that just gets way too much money poured into it. Yeah. And we're still... We're going to watch the unraveling of that in DevTools for a while, right?

that just gets way too much money poured into it. Yeah. And we're still... We're going to watch the unraveling of that in DevTools for a while, right?

So are there examples like I feel like you see so many examples on the wrong side of this where they're not taking big bets? Are there examples that you admire that did take big bets, like that are active startups that you feel like actually chose the right size kind of thing? Yeah.

So are there examples like I feel like you see so many examples on the wrong side of this where they're not taking big bets? Are there examples that you admire that did take big bets, like that are active startups that you feel like actually chose the right size kind of thing? Yeah.

I heard there was somebody on the other team that they had never played. They were having to explain that you dribble. You can't take steps without dribbling. They had never played.

I heard there was somebody on the other team that they had never played. They were having to explain that you dribble. You can't take steps without dribbling. They had never played.

But then there was the guy on their team. I'm blanking on his name. CEO of Laravel. Whatever. I'm blanking. But he played college basketball. Tom. He was clearly good.

But then there was the guy on their team. I'm blanking on his name. CEO of Laravel. Whatever. I'm blanking. But he played college basketball. Tom. He was clearly good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We are quite boring. Yeah, I'm quite bored. I'm bored with much of the discourse. And it's helped me kind of get off of Twitter and not be that active right now.

We are quite boring. Yeah, I'm quite bored. I'm bored with much of the discourse. And it's helped me kind of get off of Twitter and not be that active right now.

i which i i get like there's a lot of other benefits twitter just the memes and the hanging out or whatever i am there's the fantasy football league i mean that's on twitter so i'm excited for that we're drafting tomorrow actually i think uh turns out turk listens to our podcast and he thinks i am cheating because i talked about my secret weapon last time uh so if you're still listening turk

i which i i get like there's a lot of other benefits twitter just the memes and the hanging out or whatever i am there's the fantasy football league i mean that's on twitter so i'm excited for that we're drafting tomorrow actually i think uh turns out turk listens to our podcast and he thinks i am cheating because i talked about my secret weapon last time uh so if you're still listening turk

I love you. That's all. I just like you. You're the best. Thanks for running the league.

I love you. That's all. I just like you. You're the best. Thanks for running the league.

Okay. Uh, I feel like I've seen more like mega viral tweets lately. Like, I don't know if they're just showing up in my feed more, but like numbers that I don't remember seeing like a year ago on a single tweet. And it feels like it's happened within our little like corner of Twitter. You know what I mean?

Okay. Uh, I feel like I've seen more like mega viral tweets lately. Like, I don't know if they're just showing up in my feed more, but like numbers that I don't remember seeing like a year ago on a single tweet. And it feels like it's happened within our little like corner of Twitter. You know what I mean?

Like people we know, I know I've seen Theo has had at least one or two really giant had one recently.

Like people we know, I know I've seen Theo has had at least one or two really giant had one recently.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I saw that.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I saw that.

Oh, that's crazy. I can't imagine what you're like... I guess you don't get notifications at that point.

Oh, that's crazy. I can't imagine what you're like... I guess you don't get notifications at that point.

Oh, has it never changed? I hadn't checked back in. Has it never changed since the first time they put it up there?

Oh, has it never changed? I hadn't checked back in. Has it never changed since the first time they put it up there?

Don't they say that about TikTok? Like that TikTok has that going for it?

Don't they say that about TikTok? Like that TikTok has that going for it?

Yeah. Is it scary to you? Like, is there like a China thing that's scary or something? I don't know.

Yeah. Is it scary to you? Like, is there like a China thing that's scary or something? I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It kind of took over.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It kind of took over.

It's infinite. There's some infinite content.

It's infinite. There's some infinite content.

I love to hear vegan talk about content. I'll never hear the word content again without thinking of vegan now. All right, well, I really have to pee. And I feel like maybe this is just not going to be as long. I feel like we're both like need a nap or something. Maybe this is like the lowest energy podcast. Yeah, yeah.

I love to hear vegan talk about content. I'll never hear the word content again without thinking of vegan now. All right, well, I really have to pee. And I feel like maybe this is just not going to be as long. I feel like we're both like need a nap or something. Maybe this is like the lowest energy podcast. Yeah, yeah.

That competitive, if you've played competitive basketball, like especially in college, I feel like, yeah, something's going to kick in and you're going to be like, screw this.

That competitive, if you've played competitive basketball, like especially in college, I feel like, yeah, something's going to kick in and you're going to be like, screw this.

It sounds amazing. But yeah, it's probably wearing it out too. It's been fun as always. Get well, get well soon. See you next.

It sounds amazing. But yeah, it's probably wearing it out too. It's been fun as always. Get well, get well soon. See you next.

yeah he said it was 99 though like he hasn't played since 99 college basketball are you serious like night like 1999 isn't that crazy i mean he said he had played like five years ago maybe but like college for that yeah i thought so i didn't think it was that long ago i know it's crazy we're all getting so old he's like 45 wow okay he was really good all the gray beards

yeah he said it was 99 though like he hasn't played since 99 college basketball are you serious like night like 1999 isn't that crazy i mean he said he had played like five years ago maybe but like college for that yeah i thought so i didn't think it was that long ago i know it's crazy we're all getting so old he's like 45 wow okay he was really good all the gray beards

Yeah, what's that about? I did feel like we are kind of good at this. We could probably play sports as a side thing for a while, and we've still got some legs on us. Yeah, it was surprising. Like Teej clearly plays a lot of morning basketball. Prime just throws his body at everything.

Yeah, what's that about? I did feel like we are kind of good at this. We could probably play sports as a side thing for a while, and we've still got some legs on us. Yeah, it was surprising. Like Teej clearly plays a lot of morning basketball. Prime just throws his body at everything.

It's like his stream, like prime stream is such a perfect embodiment of like his, his personality and how he plays sports as well. It turns out. Yeah. And it's also just good hanging out. Like we don't get to do that a whole lot in person.

It's like his stream, like prime stream is such a perfect embodiment of like his, his personality and how he plays sports as well. It turns out. Yeah. And it's also just good hanging out. Like we don't get to do that a whole lot in person.

We've just been throwing ideas around for how do we top the basketball game. There's lots of cool ideas floating around. Well, not just a basketball game.

We've just been throwing ideas around for how do we top the basketball game. There's lots of cool ideas floating around. Well, not just a basketball game.

Oh, yeah. We rented a Lambo. I forgot. We spent like a few hours with the Lambo and took all kinds of funny videos. I can't wait for those to start coming out. Does somebody have all the footage now? Are people editing?

Oh, yeah. We rented a Lambo. I forgot. We spent like a few hours with the Lambo and took all kinds of funny videos. I can't wait for those to start coming out. Does somebody have all the footage now? Are people editing?

How about vegan bot? I love that guy. I didn't know really much about him. He's the best. Like the first, when he walked in the room, like first meeting him, I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to get along with this guy. Like it's just, he was a lot. Uh, but then you just appreciate him more and more. I feel like as you spend time with him, I love that guy. Yeah.

How about vegan bot? I love that guy. I didn't know really much about him. He's the best. Like the first, when he walked in the room, like first meeting him, I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to get along with this guy. Like it's just, he was a lot. Uh, but then you just appreciate him more and more. I feel like as you spend time with him, I love that guy. Yeah.

How are you?

How are you?

He's just so helpful. And yeah, love that guy. And then you learn that like he sends so many tweets to Teej and Prime.

He's just so helpful. And yeah, love that guy. And then you learn that like he sends so many tweets to Teej and Prime.

Yeah, no kidding. Get in the loop. I think he's got enough ideas for more than just Teej and Prime. Yeah.

Yeah, no kidding. Get in the loop. I think he's got enough ideas for more than just Teej and Prime. Yeah.

Is that why you went home early?

Is that why you went home early?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was a good conference. I felt like my Twitter timeline, I haven't been on Twitter as much lately, but opening it at the conference, it was just, it was taken over by all these things going on.

Yeah, it was a good conference. I felt like my Twitter timeline, I haven't been on Twitter as much lately, but opening it at the conference, it was just, it was taken over by all these things going on.

Did we help boost...

Did we help boost...

awareness with our shenanigans yeah i mean i saw at least several tweets that were like do i need to start learning php now and that's like the the metric for me if like random people are just like having phone if we're giving random like react influencers fomo that's that's the goal yeah i think we did our job cool yeah what's next what's next for terminal oh we also sell coffee by the way if you're interested in some terminal coffee let's throw to our sponsors i'm just gonna say stuff like that because chris does fun stuff when i say things like that

awareness with our shenanigans yeah i mean i saw at least several tweets that were like do i need to start learning php now and that's like the the metric for me if like random people are just like having phone if we're giving random like react influencers fomo that's that's the goal yeah i think we did our job cool yeah what's next what's next for terminal oh we also sell coffee by the way if you're interested in some terminal coffee let's throw to our sponsors i'm just gonna say stuff like that because chris does fun stuff when i say things like that

Terminal Coffee, though. We sold a bunch of artisan coffee online, some in person. I feel very low energy. Do you feel very low energy? I mean, you're sick. Yeah. This one's going to be tough. I feel like we're both just kind of like reeling from the last few days.

Terminal Coffee, though. We sold a bunch of artisan coffee online, some in person. I feel very low energy. Do you feel very low energy? I mean, you're sick. Yeah. This one's going to be tough. I feel like we're both just kind of like reeling from the last few days.

Oh, really? Oh, I met her at TwitchCon.

Oh, really? Oh, I met her at TwitchCon.

Are you going to TwitchCon? Yeah, last year. I thought I was going to, but I feel like, and I even bought a ticket. I just, I feel like I should reserve all my travel for terminal things.

Are you going to TwitchCon? Yeah, last year. I thought I was going to, but I feel like, and I even bought a ticket. I just, I feel like I should reserve all my travel for terminal things.

dallas i felt kind of off and then from tuesday i was like i don't know i felt this weird phase where i was like i feel like i could be sick but i could also just not be sick yeah my my throat was sore that first morning after we went and kind of hung out with the laravel people i think that was just it's the bar thing it's like it's smoky it's loud you're yelling at each other

dallas i felt kind of off and then from tuesday i was like i don't know i felt this weird phase where i was like i feel like i could be sick but i could also just not be sick yeah my my throat was sore that first morning after we went and kind of hung out with the laravel people i think that was just it's the bar thing it's like it's smoky it's loud you're yelling at each other

Yeah. We're going to be going to stuff enough that like I can't throw in extra stuff that doesn't really add to that.

Yeah. We're going to be going to stuff enough that like I can't throw in extra stuff that doesn't really add to that.

Just to go to New York. Where do I want to go? Let me see. Are there tech conferences in Southern California? I haven't been to LA in forever.

Just to go to New York. Where do I want to go? Let me see. Are there tech conferences in Southern California? I haven't been to LA in forever.

Well, there are conferences like, I guess, in SF. I hate saying SF. But are there? I think so. Well, you know, it's been a while. I know like when Theo living there and people would be going to his apartment and stuff because they're going to some tech conference. That was NextConf. Was it just NextConf? Oh, maybe it is just NextConf. Yeah, maybe. I think they're having another conference.

Well, there are conferences like, I guess, in SF. I hate saying SF. But are there? I think so. Well, you know, it's been a while. I know like when Theo living there and people would be going to his apartment and stuff because they're going to some tech conference. That was NextConf. Was it just NextConf? Oh, maybe it is just NextConf. Yeah, maybe. I think they're having another conference.

I don't know. I heard maybe something about it. Sorry. Nice. Oh, are we team Vercel now? Do we love Vercel? That's what you're doing? You're shifting? I'll just follow you.

I don't know. I heard maybe something about it. Sorry. Nice. Oh, are we team Vercel now? Do we love Vercel? That's what you're doing? You're shifting? I'll just follow you.

Oh, that's good. I love it. Yeah, I guess maybe there aren't a lot of tech conferences in San Francisco, but definitely not in Southern California, which is where I'd rather go. I don't want to go to the Bay Area. That place sucks. That place sucks? I mean, I just don't like it. I don't know. It's not very clean. Oh, the city? Yeah, the city is sad where it is now. It is, yeah.

Oh, that's good. I love it. Yeah, I guess maybe there aren't a lot of tech conferences in San Francisco, but definitely not in Southern California, which is where I'd rather go. I don't want to go to the Bay Area. That place sucks. That place sucks? I mean, I just don't like it. I don't know. It's not very clean. Oh, the city? Yeah, the city is sad where it is now. It is, yeah.

Yeah, I guess. Geographically. I like to go to the fairy building and, uh, there's this place called Mary poses. This is bakery. And I have these vegan pop tarts. They're like plum flavored. They're so good. I call them pop tarts. They're like, uh, What would that be called? A strudel. Yeah. Pop tarts. I mean, come on.

Yeah, I guess. Geographically. I like to go to the fairy building and, uh, there's this place called Mary poses. This is bakery. And I have these vegan pop tarts. They're like plum flavored. They're so good. I call them pop tarts. They're like, uh, What would that be called? A strudel. Yeah. Pop tarts. I mean, come on.

I really do. Vegan pastries. It's kind of like my weakness. I just traveled to get vegan pastries.

I really do. Vegan pastries. It's kind of like my weakness. I just traveled to get vegan pastries.

Tell me more. OK. Anyway. Oh, we might come to Miami, by the way. Really? Casey, there's a volleyball camp. I don't remember. December? I think December. Oh, you guys should do it. That'd be really fun. Yeah, it's like there's these camps they have all over the country, and it's like when one intersects with something that would be like, hey, we could go see Dax and Liz.

Tell me more. OK. Anyway. Oh, we might come to Miami, by the way. Really? Casey, there's a volleyball camp. I don't remember. December? I think December. Oh, you guys should do it. That'd be really fun. Yeah, it's like there's these camps they have all over the country, and it's like when one intersects with something that would be like, hey, we could go see Dax and Liz.

It's a good reason to pick that one. So yeah, I'll let you know. Yeah, you guys should do it.

It's a good reason to pick that one. So yeah, I'll let you know. Yeah, you guys should do it.

Yeah, that'd be great. It's actually in South Beach, but... It'd still be fun.

Yeah, that'd be great. It's actually in South Beach, but... It'd still be fun.

We'd stay closer to you and then we could just drive across the bridge or whatever.

We'd stay closer to you and then we could just drive across the bridge or whatever.

Was that just special circumstances that React Miami lined up with something where traffic was really bad or just time of year?

Was that just special circumstances that React Miami lined up with something where traffic was really bad or just time of year?

Yeah. Oh. Was it the Emerge Americas? The LinkedIn conference? I guess so.

Yeah. Oh. Was it the Emerge Americas? The LinkedIn conference? I guess so.

But then it does make you question the whole time, like, am I actually sick? It's possible.

But then it does make you question the whole time, like, am I actually sick? It's possible.

Yeah. What's been going on in tech? What else did we miss while we were doing real life stuff? It's so funny to say like IRL. Like, oh, that's my IRL friend. Like Teej came with Sam. He's like, this is my IRL friend. It's like, we're all real life friends. Just not like in person friends. Not enough. Yeah. What is going on in tech? Is anything going on? Or in life. Forget about tech.

Yeah. What's been going on in tech? What else did we miss while we were doing real life stuff? It's so funny to say like IRL. Like, oh, that's my IRL friend. Like Teej came with Sam. He's like, this is my IRL friend. It's like, we're all real life friends. Just not like in person friends. Not enough. Yeah. What is going on in tech? Is anything going on? Or in life. Forget about tech.

Who cares anymore? I just don't care anymore. I think the more people talk on Twitter, like technical topics, the less I care. I care nothing about anyone's technical takes. I just don't. Like I'm sure someone cares. I just, I can't even anymore. I can't pretend. Like your technical takes on Twitter are just, no one cares. No one cares. Oh, there's been so much stuff going on.

Who cares anymore? I just don't care anymore. I think the more people talk on Twitter, like technical topics, the less I care. I care nothing about anyone's technical takes. I just don't. Like I'm sure someone cares. I just, I can't even anymore. I can't pretend. Like your technical takes on Twitter are just, no one cares. No one cares. Oh, there's been so much stuff going on.

Yasin has been, like, attacking all the people that we associate with. And they've been attacking back. Wait, what do you mean attacking all the people?

Yasin has been, like, attacking all the people that we associate with. And they've been attacking back. Wait, what do you mean attacking all the people?

WebDevCody. I don't really know him, I guess. Then there's, like, DHH hopping in and being like, Ha ha, told you, complexity sucks.

WebDevCody. I don't really know him, I guess. Then there's, like, DHH hopping in and being like, Ha ha, told you, complexity sucks.

It's been a lot of Twitter drama.

It's been a lot of Twitter drama.

It keeps coming up, like this... Yeah, complexity versus...

It keeps coming up, like this... Yeah, complexity versus...

like vps's or whatever i'm just talking yeah i don't care either side sounds and nobody is ever shipping anything exactly what are they i don't know i saw you say something about that and i had to think about it deeply for a moment like are there a lot of people shipping they just don't talk so the people who are talking these people that are always like arguing about you should be a vps it should be whatever it's like i have never used your product

like vps's or whatever i'm just talking yeah i don't care either side sounds and nobody is ever shipping anything exactly what are they i don't know i saw you say something about that and i had to think about it deeply for a moment like are there a lot of people shipping they just don't talk so the people who are talking these people that are always like arguing about you should be a vps it should be whatever it's like i have never used your product

What is like one notable product that is like shipped on a VPS?

What is like one notable product that is like shipped on a VPS?