Judge David Fleischer
Appearances
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
if mental health goes unchecked and i don't know how many people realize that i think it's very difficult to realize you know hey i'm bipolar i would imagine that a lot of people don't see it they don't recognize it and it takes something catastrophic for them to finally realize hey i might really need to talk to someone i might really need medication and Sometimes it's too late.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
Here, we recently had an election a couple of months ago and a lot of the judges that were here are not here anymore. It was the driving force of the will of the people. So I think that's one of the things that keeps judges in check.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
But that's a very big problem where a lot of judges become desensitized and they either take it for granted, they don't see the human or the person that's in front of you because you can really change someone's life because judges really have so much power.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
If you have enough name recognition, if I was Elvis, Iran for something, you know? But by and large, it's usually not like that. There's very, very few, especially on a judiciary where they become such a name recognition that it's futile to run against them. Most of those are either in Senate or in Congress, not in local judges.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It happens all the time. It really does. And the only way is through education and to somehow get it out there that, hey, this is what's going on. This is the reality of the situation. But far, far too many times, a lot of judges get a bad rap when it's certainly just not true. And it's very, very difficult. And a lot of judges get it because of it. It happens all the time.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
We have certain things we can say. we have certain things we can't say i can't come back and say something we're not allowed to you know so there are certain things we can we can't and we just have to basically take
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
That's exactly what we're doing now. Why I live stream is exactly what we're doing now. You...
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
get a perspective of exactly what's going on it's complete and it's complete transparency you are looking what happens every single day in our court you get to see the good you get to see the bad it is such an educational tool because all too often we get so many people that are just misunderstood and that's when we step in and just try to help yeah i'm so glad that you brought up live streaming that brings up a couple of questions
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
If you remember back in times of COVID, There were no courts. There were no basic open courts because everybody was homebound. Believe it or not, criminality never ended. People continued to get arrested. Things continued to happen. So courts have to stay open. They have to continue. We were closed. How do you get? Because it's still an open forum. Courts have to stay open.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
What we do here is we really, and what I'm doing is really trying to get to the heart of the issue to figure out what's going on with everyone and to help them. And we want everybody to leave better than they came.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
They have to be an open forum so that anybody has access to it that wants to have access to it. So what we did was we began live streaming. What I did was and what we all did, what we were required to do was to use Zoom as an avenue to be able to communicate with the lawyers. And we would live stream the Zoom proceedings so that the entire world could see. You can go to our court now.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
go to my web page, click on the live stream and you can watch. And I've been doing it since we were required to back in 2020. Now, four years later, I continue to do it. It kind of somehow just someone started watching and it just kind of ballooned out of there. The great thing about it is that it provides number one, transparency. Number two, it's a great educational tool, like I've been saying.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
However, the bad part is not everybody likes to be on it, right? So they take issue with being thrust into it. And it's the court process. I'm sorry. When you get in trouble, this is what happens. There's consequence to behavior. You have to learn it. Nowadays, anonymity is just gone, right?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
In every aspect of life, I would hope that it would possibly be a great deterrent as well, especially for those who, if you're professional, And you're out there. Think before you act. Think before you speak. There is a humongous consequence now.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It doesn't change the dynamic in the courtroom. What I've found, and I'll tell you that I get a lot of comments and people that reach out to me that say, hey, thank you for doing what you're doing. Because of you, I have reached out to a long-lost brother. We've had people that have told us that they've stopped harming themselves.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
They've checked into rehab because they see how other people go through things. They empathize with them. They see...
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
what good can come from it and so they in turn do the same thing i promise you i can't tell you how many people have reached out to us in such a positive way that it has impacted them seeking mental health treatment prevention from suicide really seeking drug treatment i mean i can give you letter after letter email after email but of course there's always a negative as well right to people who don't like it and there's like there's going to be that with every aspect of life
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
I've had teachers that have reached out to us that they show it to their classroom. And so I've had other teachers that say, hey, can you come and speak to our class? So it's from that aspect that I think that it's really just a great resource and an educational tool because now our young children and our young adults. They don't think before acting. God knows that. I was 17 and 18 too, right?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
But when you see what happens and when you see the consequence, right?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
One of the biggest problems in life, and I think that this can really play in everything, is patience. If people had more patience in every aspect of life, we would just be a better, overall better world. Patience, whether you are being a judge,
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
You're judging whether you are a district attorney, whether you're on probation and dealing with someone, whether you are talking to someone who has autism and mental health issue and you're trying to get through to them and you're not getting through and you become so agitated that everybody explodes. Just patience has such a virtue.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
it's a very difficult trait to have to practice and if everybody did and just took a second to reflect i really think it would help in every aspect of life especially when we're talking about mental health it's not hard i mean i'm sorry it's very difficult dealing with participating and speaking to someone who may have mental health issues or autism it's not easy and if you don't have patience it's even going to be more difficult not only are you going to be frustrated
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
But the other person is going to be double frustrated because think about them. They're trying to get to you and they have an issue trying to express themselves. Autism is a very tricky thing.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
But if you have patience and you show compassion and love toward that person, once they start to trust you, they'll open up and hopefully you will learn how to deal with the autism and how to best communicate and perhaps help them.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
This is one analogy that I give quite a bit. I was pulled over quite a while ago and I had an officer come up to me, extremely arrogant, just, hey man, why'd you do that? Why did you run that stop sign? I knew I stopped. Okay, maybe I stopped for a second. I didn't stop for three seconds. So I looked at the officer and I said, you know, I'm sorry, man, I'm an idiot.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
I just truly, I'm sorry and I'll do better next time. He let me go. If I would have been aggressive to him, what would have happened? If you practice that in everyday life with mental health, with autism, when they're trying to combat it to you and you really shower them with love and empathy, I mean, the sky's the limit.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
So that's what we do in our court and actually in all of our courts here, right? Not just me, just our entire brethren. And I think that hopefully we'll make a change because that's what we try to do. You know, just try to make everyone better when they leave.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
I don't know. You know, it's one person at a time, one step at a time. And, you know, I'm not going to be here for long, but I hope that we can touch as many lives as you have with your podcast. I mean, you've done it in hundreds of thousands. Me, I'm just one at a time. But, you know, that's all it takes. That's right. One at a time.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
You know, when you prevent that one person from committing a criminal act, you're winning. Well, I really appreciate you coming on. This has been great information. Thank you for having me. I'm always willing to help if you ever want to chat. I'm around anytime I can help if you ever want. Just I'm happy to join you.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
Common sense, right?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
Let me get a couple things, bring a couple things to the forefront here that I think it's important that not a lot of people realize.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
Number one, I'm a judge of one of the misdemeanor courts here in Harris County, which is Houston. In our court, we only deal with misdemeanors class A and class B where they're punishable by up to six months in jail and or a year in jail. I have 16 of my brethren. So there's 16 of us here in Harris County. You have to realize that Houston is a humongous city from one part to the other.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It takes three hours, right? It's absolutely just enormous. So there's a lot of people here, what, 3 million, 4 million people. So there's a lot of things going on at all times. One of the biggest things that we do is probable cause. So initially, someone gets arrested. They have their first court date.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
That's when we, a lot of times, will do probable cause, where we determine if there's enough to go forward. We, as judges, we call balls and strikes. To be fair, you don't lean to one side. You don't lean to the other side. We are given a set of circumstances. We look at what the law is and we go forward from there. In our experience here, we've had great ADAs. They're not out for blood.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It's not like that. Now, sometimes it may seem like that, but understand they're advocating their position and reasonable minds can differ. How a defense lawyer may see something, it not may necessarily as someone else see something. And so that's why we kind of like horse blinders, take a middle of the road approach,
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
the common sense result and look whether there's probable cause to go forward or not. Sometimes there is, sometimes there's not. But one of the most important factors at play here that I don't know if you guys know about it, but we, along with our brethren here, in 2018 really changed the landscape of criminal justice because of bail reform.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
I don't know if you're familiar with bail reform, but what that is is that back in the old days and how it's been since the beginning of time, if you got arrested, you went to jail. And the only way you got out of jail is if you bonded out. Not everybody has that kind of money. So in in 16, a lady filed a lawsuit, a federal lawsuit, because, hey, man, it's not fair what's going on.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
So what happened was a lady gets arrested for a suspended license case. She ends up going to jail. Her bond gets set, if I remember correctly, twenty five hundred dollars, which is you would pay 10 percent traditionally, which is two hundred and fifty dollars. You get out and you go fight the case. Not everybody has that kind of money.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
So what they would do is they would sit in jail, they would plead guilty, and they would sit there just to get out. They would plead guilty, whether you know you're innocent or not. Even if you can't make that, they charge you with an assault or DWI or whatever it may be. Who's going to sit there in their right mind for four months waiting for evidence to come in? No one's going to do that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It's easier to plead guilty and get out. Who cares about the consequences?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
So when we got elected, me and my brother in an 18, you know, the judges before us fought bail reform. I don't know why. Maybe it's the fact that, you know, you're used to a system in place, you know, and people fear change. But I don't know. But when we came in, we said, hey, we agree with bail reform. Bail reform is good from a misdemeanor standpoint.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
I don't know about felonies, but misdemeanor, because the idea is when you're in jail, it affects this. It affects this. I don't know if you've ever been to jail, and I don't want you to say yes or no, but it is such an awful place. It can play with your mind. It can play with your psyche. It can make you develop anxiety, mental health problems, and you lose your house, your apartment, cars.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
Now, what we've done is we've completely like just turned around a system that's been in place for 150 years on its head. Now, when you get arrested for nonviolent offenses, and of course, there's exceptions to the rule, but by and large, a lot of people are given a personal recognizance bond, a PR bond to get out to fight the case.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
The idea is, is that it shouldn't be a wealth based criminal justice system how it's been. What you have now are people being able to be on the outside, fighting their case so they don't have to plead guilty to get out. The conviction rate has dropped from a 60%. I mean, to mind this, a 60% conviction rate in 2016 now to around a 25, 23 to 25% conviction rate. That's staggering.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It helps people in everyday life from not losing their jobs, their mental health, keeping families, rise possessions. And so now we see a lot of people coming back
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
with other issues at play and so what we do now is we tried to get down to okay you're here why how do we help you so you don't come back because we want to close the revolving door of criminal justice so you don't just keep coming back because i can't tell you the amount of people that come with 20 30 convictions and They would prefer to live on the street than me finding you housing.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It's really staggering. So that's now the mission. You know, we've done a 180 with with regard to bail reform. Now that we've instituted this program, what's next? Next on the list is mental health.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
getting down to how we help every single person that comes to the criminal justice system and that's that's where we are now i think it's difficult because one more point is what makes it so difficult is i want to help you but you don't want to help me helping you how do we go forward so true there's definitely a staggering amount of people that get caught up in the legal system
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
You know, I think one of the major other things issues that we have is we were really limited with the resources that we have as well to be able to help many times it's addiction issues many times it's just not getting the proper medication and when you do that it really helps my philosophy is you know i have four kids at home right and then I have another 2,000 at work.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
Every person that comes through, I treat like they're my own child. If you do well, we hug you, we congratulate you. Hey, great job because positive reinforcement has really such a, it's so great. Hey, you mess up, you're going to get it as well. We give everybody the expectation of, hey, you know, this is what the expectation is when you come here. If you need help, we will give you help.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
All you have to do is ask. But unfortunately, the problem is sometimes they just won't accept it, no matter how much. And I don't know how to go forward.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
I will tell you, I've had quite a number of autistic, in my opinion. I never know because when I'm facing someone in front of me, I don't have information that they may be autistic. At times, you can tell. You know when you're talking to someone. When I have someone that I think... is either special needs, needs a little bit more care. What I do is I shower them with even more love.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
I swear to you, I take more time, show a lot more compassion to get them to try to trust me because that's what I want. I want you to open up to me. I want to see what makes you tick. I want to be able to look into you to see how I can help you. Whether it's get you into a sober living facility. You know, we have a mental health docket here that we help a lot of people with as well.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
And whether it's getting them into a mental health docket. But what's really sad is that if you look around courts around the country, a lot of people don't see it because you don't get to really see the inner workings of how a court works. And that's why we do what we do.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
Complete and utter transparency so that you get to see what goes on, because I think it's imperative for the public to get access to see how courts work, how we do what we do and why we do what we do so that you get a better understanding of what we do, how difficult it may be at some times and how you may be able to help us as well.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
When we get autistic, when we get persons with either mental health issues, we shower them with love. We shower them with help so that they can open up and accept what we're trying to give. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
So when I get someone in front of me, we look at what the initial charge is. Sometimes it may be a criminal trespass. Sometimes it may be a criminal mischief. Sometimes it may be a DWI, an assault. A lot of times I can tell
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
I'm happy to be here. You know, anytime we can spread awareness, I think it's a great thing. The business that I'm in, it goes hand in hand with mental health. The struggles to get a grip of mental health, because I think it really, a lot of behavior can potentially and unfortunately turn criminal.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
the person by how they're acting in court what happened with the case and what kind of bond conditions to put on them that's how we help by really looking at the person who they are crafting conditions that specifically help them and so what we're doing is not only am i helping the defense but i'm also helping the da's as well
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
so that they know we are number one protecting the public making sure that we put enough conditions if they need conditions so that they won't commit new offenses because what we don't want is we don't want you to while you're on bond to pick up another case we don't want you to endanger our public so i'm not necessarily being fair to one side or to the other side what i'm doing is i'm trying to harmoniously protect the public and also help everybody that's coming through
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It's the person. It's the person. You know, I mean, there's a couple of things at play, I think. One is, is what happens to a person who sees too much over the course of many, many years? Perhaps they become jaded. They become desensitized, right? That's what happens when you watch all on the TV, the murder, violence, you become desensitized.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It can happen with judges as well, and that's why you need either term limits or that's why you have elections, right? It's the will of the people. Unfortunately, the problem is that most people statistically just don't vote. At the end of the day, the way that you really keep a judge in check is through the election process because it's the will of the people that should command the vote, right?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
It's there, and they're the ones who should be the driving force as to whether a judge is in place or a judge is not in place. If a judge, like you said, has too much meanness, so to speak, it needs to come out, right? How do you do that? That's a great question. I don't know.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
You know, theoretically, what would happen is someone would have to file a complaint.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Judge David Fleisher: When Judges Choose Compassion Over Punishment?
Right. And that's, you know, just like anything in life. You know, when you have people who are upset either at a lawyer, at a judge, at something, there's always a bar, a state bar that can either, you know, you file a complaint. That's one way, so to speak. Right. But I think ultimately, at the end of the day, an election is just that, you know.