John Fetterman
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
The truth story behind the hoodie thing, it's like I never went to anybody or Schumer, anyone to ask for that. You know, I read about that. I'm like, I'm like, I never asked for those kinds of thing. I was never going to like just give speeches, you know, hoodie there. So, yeah. But for me, I'm a comfort guy, and I'm also a lazy man, and I don't have to iron it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
It's just easy to wash it, and I'm ready to go. And plus, it's hard to find suits, too.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
Because for me, it's been born from my commitment to never... to pick on anybody. I mean, when I was very young, I got bullied and picked on. And that really kind of shaped a lot of my experience. And I'm not part of those communities, you know, LGBTQ kinds of things. But now, like that really started when I was a small town mayor, when gay marriage was illegal. Literally, it was illegal.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And then there was an opportunity. There was someone starting to sign those things. And I said, a hundred percent, I got on TV. I'm like, I'll sign them, come with me. And that was illegal. And then the governor at the time threatened to have me arrested. And then I said, well, Hey, you know, you know where I live, bring it, bring it. And I signed for those things.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And that was the first, I was at the time the only official in Pennsylvania willing to sign those. And they all became legal. And that was back in 2013. And so it's the same kind of thing. It's like marriage equality. I really support that. And if I was convicted of that crime, because technically it was a crime, I'm like, well, hey, then that might be the end of my political career. But
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
You know, I'll never, you know, degrade somebody based on who they love. And now for this, and I'm not dumb either. I know the polling. And now a lot of people are saying it's absurd, it's absurd kinds of thing. And now, so for me, that's when I felt like it's a time to really say, look, now for me, it's about I'm not going to bully or I'm not going to degrade those.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And now, you know, we're a 13 million population. People in our state. And it's a small, small number of people that are involved on that. And I have a I have a 13 year old daughter and she plays basketball and I'm not afraid that she's going to get mowed down.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
But but for me, but it turns into an issue that is more appropriate to be handled on a very hyper local level and not dropping them into a meat grinder and a national finds and weaponizing that. And I know I'm not dumb. I know that there'll be commercial saying, you know, Fetterman's for they them and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, hey. You know, like bring it in.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I'm not I'm not afraid to stand for my side on that, because for these kids, for me, how difficult that it is. And now in this kinds of a world, nuance goes to die and having a more meaningful conversation on that. It's difficult right now. So for me, I made that choice and I could have tried to kept my head down like a lot of my other colleagues decided to do that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
But for me, even though I know it's politically unpopular, I think that's the kind of time to do that. And I do believe that a person's character is defined by the things that they're willing to do, even if that moves against their political interests.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
You know, he's in my opinion, he's going to get the worst of both worlds of that. I mean, he's going to be seen as just flip flopping and he's going to he's going to anger like his progressive base. And then and we all know why he's doing those kinds of things. So and then and then on the other side are going to know why he's making those kind of changes.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
So for me, like it's like he's going to own the worst of both of those worlds for that reason.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I did a video. I'm like, look, I mean, it was not, there was a time when it wasn't controversial. Desegregating the military was incredibly controversial at the time. I'm not going to serve. I'm not going to fight. I'm not going to bunk with black soldiers. Now, of course, that needed to change. And then there was, I'm old enough to remember when don't tell, don't ask thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And now it's like, regardless of who you, who you love. I mean, you know, that doesn't make you more lethal or more suitable to be a soldier based on who you love. That was really front and center with the Hegseth nomination. Well, what about women in combat and out based on their gender? And when you have gender neutral kinds of things that and then it's it shouldn't matter based on your gender.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And so regardless on how you identify, you know, that doesn't make you any more or less lethal. And as long as you're able to meet those kinds of a standard for me, it's about it's about the dignity, the dignity of the soldier. And I'm not going to degrade that based on their race, obviously, on their gender, on who they love and not how they identify.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And that's why I did that video, knowing that it's not politically popular. So that's why I decided to lean on that, because I think it's part of that narrative, that arc of whether what was really controversial and unthinkable based on race. And now we're along that arc.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
it was considered controversial, you know, it's like based on who you, who you, who you love. Like, I don't understand that. And, and I'm like, for me, like for, for, I say to my conservative friends, it's like, it's about freedom, freedom. It's one of those are the kinds of the fundamental kinds of things on, you know, I love the freedom to love who you love.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And, and now if you have that kinds of internal conflict about your gender, you know, I didn't experience those kinds of things, but I know people that have and they are coming from a very sincere place and they are trying to live their truths. And I don't think that they don't deserve to be ridiculed or turned into pariahs.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And definitely, you know, teenagers especially, I'm not going to be part of dropping them into that meat grinder.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I've been unapologetically pro-Ukraine. You know, I'm like one of the best things I've ever done as a senator. I voted for the aid for Israel, for Ukraine and Taiwan. I mean, like for me, that's a global struggle against democracy. And obviously, Russia was the aggressor. Well, I'm old enough. I say this before. I'm like when I grew up, I'm like Red Dawn.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I'm like, you're cheering for the Wolverines, the Wolverines. And Russia was the evil empire. And it is. It is. If you disagree with Putin, two days later, they find you because you fell out of a window. So I absolutely didn't agree with what happened in the White House. But I didn't jump on and started yelling. But two things can be true at the same time.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I certainly didn't appreciate what happened in the White House, but it's also undeniable that Ukraine doesn't have, you know, he doesn't have all the cards. I mean, what's true now, too, the president is the commander of chief, and he has the ability to shape and really alter the contour of that situation. And if we're moving towards peace, you know, I don't want to inflame that situation.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
Again, Putin is a killer. And of course, Russia is our enemy always. And that hasn't gone to change. My hope is. is that it is moving towards because I do not believe that the war in Ukraine is sustainable. And I have met amputees. I have met them. I have met them. And they're getting all back to the front line. And now if you're sending those wounded men there, it's a terrible situation.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And if there's a path for peace, I don't agree those kinds of terms necessarily. And I fully support seizing. There's about 218 billion of seized Russian assets. And I'm absolutely like they need to seize that. And those are the kind of assets that should rebuild it. We should rebuild that. And I don't think we should extract those kinds of funds and repaid our nation.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I thought it was always a bargain to break and humiliate the Russia military and demonstrated their lack of capabilities.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
What I'm saying, though, is like, of course, we're you know, there are there are things that are concerned, but without realizing the circumstances and part of the reasons why we ended up in this place. I mean, I'm a big believer in American democracy. And right now, when we're 53 and 47 in my in the Senate here. And they they own the government right now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And of course, they're going to lose the House. I hope they're going to lose the House. So they're going to do a lot of these things. I don't agree with a lot of those things. You know, do you do you think what they did during the so to if you thought that was smart messaging, if you landed? I mean, I, you know, I don't agree with that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
What I'm saying, though, is what I witnessed wasn't helpful and that wasn't moving the ball for Democrats. I don't I don't believe that. And if you can't just all stand and cheer for a 13 year old boy that got I mean, I have a 13 year old myself, you know, got over cancer. I mean, that's the. That's the wrong message. I agree. Can't you do both?
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I remember, I remember, I remember when Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson, that jerk off yelled, you lie, you lie, you know, and, and everyone recoiled. And then like, that was appalled by that. And it's like, yeah. So, so now we became the Joe Wilson of 2025. And that was a loser in 2009. And I don't think that's a winner or it's appropriate anymore now in 2025. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I don't agree with all those things. Yeah. I don't understand what their upside is. You know, I don't know what they get out a lot of that chaos. But now they seem to be wanting to triple down on some of that kinds of thing. But but I do believe, of course, is that, you know, if you become the party of chaos, you lose.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And the second Americans decide it's like, you know, you know, people aren't going to vote for chaos. And if you can create more and more and more kinds of chaos again, of course, there is going to be a backlash. So that's where we're at.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
Most of them, the, the border, the border, you know, like I, I really pushed and got, they got Lakin, you know, I was like the co-sponsor for Lakin and then Israel, Israel. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, like, you know, so not not not most people like you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
That was eight or nine years ago. I mean, and that was about very basic kinds of things. And like I've described, it's like, you know, the label left me, you know, like it wasn't that. So eight years ago, the world, you know, the world was much different. People thought that it was unthinkable that Donald Trump could win. And he did. Now, I would like to remind everybody, Trump won.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
you know, won two out of the three last cycles and he nearly could have won the 2020. So why? And I'm trying to figure out a way forward. You know, hey, I wish I had a deep blue state or a district and I can yell and get on and be like, ah, you know, but that's easy, you know, and then they can monetize that and they can jump on an email and raise money for their campaign for that thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
But for me, I'm trying to find a way forward for our party and I'm not going to be a mansion. I'm not going to be, you know, I'm not going to go independent or doing all those kinds of things. So, but you know, when, when you represent one of the most purple land in the country and,
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And I don't believe I stopped believing in on like cheap heat online and just yelling just because I don't agree with it on the time. If you yell at everything, then everything just becomes absurd. That's why, you know, does anybody call the police when they see or hear a car alarm going off? You know, no, people ignore that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
So if everything, you know, and the world is on fire and that actually doesn't happen, people stop listening or just assume that that's really what you do. So I want to be very selective. And now like a constitutional crisis. The second the president defies the Supreme Court or any of that, that defines, that's literally the definition of a constitutional crisis.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And I'd be the first person to just be like, no, we have a, you know. So I think if you pick your own fights. So I like to believe that, you know, your words will matter more if it's not always spending time yelling and saying that the world's going to end.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
Well, I think it's both. I mean, for me, if anything, what happened about Israel? What happened on 10-7? A lot certainly changed. I was shocked at the way that members of my party, the way they behaved for that. And also the border. I mean, you know, if you've been on my social media, I dropped a chart. And it's like, you know, what's real chaos? What's real chaos? You know?
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
250, 300,000 people showing up at our border every month. That's the size of Pittsburgh. And now like that's real chaos. That's chaos. And the Democrats have no, had no answer to say, well, oh, it's all going to work out. It's all just fine. You know, like everything's fine. There's nothing wrong there. So that really is, that's, that's true chaos.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And I, I, as my party tried to, you know, I tried to warn that we're going to, we're going to, be punished by this and trying to pretend that we're wrong. And I always knew we were going to get rolled on that bipartisan deal thing. Do you think Trump's going to give and walk that and give that away? I always say, like, I'm never going to pick a fine on fried chicken with Colonel Sanders.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
He owns the border and does, and that's definitely too valuable for him to hand that away. So it's obvious that we were going to get rolled on.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I'm not sure. I've witnessed that starting back in 2015-16.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I'm not like a you should, you should, you should guy. It's my own examples and the kinds of things that I happen to believe. And that's why I'm willing to talk to everybody. And that's not why I think that everything that comes from a Republican is bad or evil or it's terrible. And I try to find...
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
Things that we can agree, and there's some things that we're not going to agree on, on all of those things. But I promise you, a lot of the messaging that's being emerging in every sense after the inauguration, I don't think that's going to be the kinds of messaging that's going to change our party in the ways that can avoid that we end up in a way not different than we were back in 2024. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I think they've been there. They're very, very bizarre. We were forced to spend till five in the morning to keep having all these empty show votes, you know, trying to tie the Republicans to billionaires. I'm like, They campaign with a billionaire. I'm like, we love them. They announce it. They get in front of now. And now they just went at the State of the Union speech.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
Hey, I love that billionaire. That's my partner. Having all of these silly votes till five in the morning, that never went anywhere. It all just vanishes and never goes anywhere. I don't agree with a lot of this messaging. It's not helpful.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I'm just going to continue to try to find a way forward, but I'm not going to spend time yelling online and dropping silly videos or just... You had lunch with Trump and I don't know, he's easy to flatter, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
I mean, there'd be there'd be a lot of there's a lot of things. But I don't I don't flatter myself to think that, you know, like as a Democrat, a senator is going to carry how much weight on that. But I don't understand what they're getting out of the chaos. I'd like I'd like to say, like, if the Republicans stop being dicks, they're never going to they're going to lose an election.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And if Democrats don't stop getting kind of crazy or goofier or. fringy, then they're never going to lose another election. It's like there's a lot of overreaction. So I really don't understand a lot of the chaos. And then when they say things that are absolutely not true, you just diminish your own credibility.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
So I think if they make some of those small changes, but I don't agree with many of the things that happen. But when I do happen to agree that we do need to secure our border, and I do think we need to really stand firmly behind Israel. I do. I agree with a lot of those things. Well, Tim.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
We talked to a lot of different things. I talked to everybody as long as people are playing it straight. And that's what it was. It was a conversation.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
And again, you know, it's like That's one of the and I never divulge what happens in private conversations. I mean, you know, they're always we always have to have honor amongst the thieves. Otherwise, things would completely break down. I met with all of the secretary nominees and we all had conversations and I never just ran to the press or said things and did that kinds of things.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
It's like I play things straight. I will want people to play me straight. And as long as people do the same thing, I'm going to have a dialogue with with virtually anyone.
The Bulwark Podcast
Neera Tanden and John Fetterman: They're Playing With People's Lives
Very good. Okay, thank you.