Jinger Duggar

Growing up in the teachings of Bill Gothard, we are supposed to keep our husbands happy and just doing whatever they want us to do. It was terrifying for me to be able to speak up against that.

Growing up in the teachings of Bill Gothard, we are supposed to keep our husbands happy and just doing whatever they want us to do. It was terrifying for me to be able to speak up against that.

Jeremy would ask me like, Hey, where do you want to go to dinner? Or do you want, what do you want for lunch? And I would just be like, whatever you want, babe. Cause I was just trying to keep them happy. And, um, and that was something that I saw just throughout my growing up years, but it wasn't until I went to write Becoming Free Indeed that that I realized how much of a people pleaser I was.

Jeremy would ask me like, Hey, where do you want to go to dinner? Or do you want, what do you want for lunch? And I would just be like, whatever you want, babe. Cause I was just trying to keep them happy. And, um, and that was something that I saw just throughout my growing up years, but it wasn't until I went to write Becoming Free Indeed that that I realized how much of a people pleaser I was.

I do.

I do.

And that started showing up everywhere because in that book, I was going to be exposing this horrible teaching that was leading us to a very bad place. And me, my friends, loved ones, and it was terrifying for me to be able to speak up against that because I knew it was gonna ruffle people's feathers. I knew that it was not gonna be the easiest thing for everyone to hear.

And that started showing up everywhere because in that book, I was going to be exposing this horrible teaching that was leading us to a very bad place. And me, my friends, loved ones, and it was terrifying for me to be able to speak up against that because I knew it was gonna ruffle people's feathers. I knew that it was not gonna be the easiest thing for everyone to hear.

And that was the thing that really really made me see like, wow, I am so consumed with what they think about me that I'm not even willing to speak up for those who are in, who are still in that place. And that was the moment that I think it kind of dawned on me. It was like a light bulb moment because I felt like for so many years, I was like, I could never do that.

And that was the thing that really really made me see like, wow, I am so consumed with what they think about me that I'm not even willing to speak up for those who are in, who are still in that place. And that was the moment that I think it kind of dawned on me. It was like a light bulb moment because I felt like for so many years, I was like, I could never do that.

We're a team and this is like we're in this together.

We're a team and this is like we're in this together.

I could never speak up against this teaching because I it's just too hard as a people pleaser. Like it's just too hard for me. And I kept thinking, Oh, you know, I know this friend who could do it because they're really bold, but that's never going to be me.

I could never speak up against this teaching because I it's just too hard as a people pleaser. Like it's just too hard for me. And I kept thinking, Oh, you know, I know this friend who could do it because they're really bold, but that's never going to be me.

But I'm definitely the one who's pregnant.

But I'm definitely the one who's pregnant.

But then when no one else spoke up about it, then I realized I have to, like, it came to the point where I knew that that was something I had to do. And so I think that that moment really was transformative for me because no longer was I able to just live in that comfort and of keeping everybody happy with me.

But then when no one else spoke up about it, then I realized I have to, like, it came to the point where I knew that that was something I had to do. And so I think that that moment really was transformative for me because no longer was I able to just live in that comfort and of keeping everybody happy with me.

I knew, okay, the second this is released, it can cause issues and I have to be okay with that.

I knew, okay, the second this is released, it can cause issues and I have to be okay with that.

I was a little like, okay, I was so comfortable with where we were with our girls. And I was starting to like, really feel like we've hit a rhythm. We're in a good place. And so I wasn't wanting to like, just jump into having a third kid immediately. So that's why there's like a four year age gap now.

I was a little like, okay, I was so comfortable with where we were with our girls. And I was starting to like, really feel like we've hit a rhythm. We're in a good place. And so I wasn't wanting to like, just jump into having a third kid immediately. So that's why there's like a four year age gap now.

Oh, yeah, totally. So it was like my now one of my best friends. This is like when I was first getting to know her. Right. So like she asked if she could stop by my house and it was like last minute. So she comes in and. I was standing there talking to her. I was already thinking in my mind, like, okay, she asked me to come over and I'm going to say yes, but my house is not that clean.

Oh, yeah, totally. So it was like my now one of my best friends. This is like when I was first getting to know her. Right. So like she asked if she could stop by my house and it was like last minute. So she comes in and. I was standing there talking to her. I was already thinking in my mind, like, okay, she asked me to come over and I'm going to say yes, but my house is not that clean.

And that's always the first thing that comes to mind as a mom, like your house will be spotless. It will look so good. And no one comes over for two days. And then the second that somebody wants to come last minute, it's a wreck, right? That's how it always happens. And they, it can look like, man, I never cleaned my house, but you just wouldn't know what a clean freak I actually am.

And that's always the first thing that comes to mind as a mom, like your house will be spotless. It will look so good. And no one comes over for two days. And then the second that somebody wants to come last minute, it's a wreck, right? That's how it always happens. And they, it can look like, man, I never cleaned my house, but you just wouldn't know what a clean freak I actually am.

So you just have to come on the right day. Um, well, my friend comes over and she's chatting with me and I was like, this is so nice. I'm so glad I had her come over. And then I turn around and her little baby is on the floor and she's getting under the table and eating old dried Cheerios that may have been from the day before. And I was just like, oh. So I felt so bad.

So you just have to come on the right day. Um, well, my friend comes over and she's chatting with me and I was like, this is so nice. I'm so glad I had her come over. And then I turn around and her little baby is on the floor and she's getting under the table and eating old dried Cheerios that may have been from the day before. And I was just like, oh. So I felt so bad.

And I quickly apologized to mom. I was like, I'm so sorry. My floors are so dirty. So when she was there, I just went and got a broom and started trying to pry them off with the dustpan. I was just like, you know, they get stuck. I was scraping off these old Cheerios off the floor. And she's like, it's fine, Ginger. Don't worry about it. We're just happy to be here. And she was so chill.

And I quickly apologized to mom. I was like, I'm so sorry. My floors are so dirty. So when she was there, I just went and got a broom and started trying to pry them off with the dustpan. I was just like, you know, they get stuck. I was scraping off these old Cheerios off the floor. And she's like, it's fine, Ginger. Don't worry about it. We're just happy to be here. And she was so chill.

And we had the best conversations that day. And the sweetest time. And that actually... it actually transformed my mind and my mindset and thinking because I thought, okay, I could have like traded down. I could have just said like, okay, my house is not clean. It's not perfectly clean. And I just don't want you to see that I don't have everything together.

And we had the best conversations that day. And the sweetest time. And that actually... it actually transformed my mind and my mindset and thinking because I thought, okay, I could have like traded down. I could have just said like, okay, my house is not clean. It's not perfectly clean. And I just don't want you to see that I don't have everything together.

But in that time, the way that she responded to kind of like disarmed me. And I was like, okay, she's not like judging me for this. She might later, but no, she's not judging me in the moment. And she was being a true friend.

But in that time, the way that she responded to kind of like disarmed me. And I was like, okay, she's not like judging me for this. She might later, but no, she's not judging me in the moment. And she was being a true friend.

And after that, it was actually really cool. Cause like the closer friend friendship would be, you know, started to form and this friendship really took off. And now she's the one who comes to my house. Like if I have something that a project, then she'll come to my house and be like, okay, I have an hour, let's tackle it. And then I'll go to her house.

And after that, it was actually really cool. Cause like the closer friend friendship would be, you know, started to form and this friendship really took off. And now she's the one who comes to my house. Like if I have something that a project, then she'll come to my house and be like, okay, I have an hour, let's tackle it. And then I'll go to her house.

So we switch off all the time on projects that we need to have done, or like she needs help cleaning your house. So I'll pop over for an hour with, you know, Evie and it's great. Like, It's actually built more of like a genuine friendship where we don't feel like we have to have everything all together. We can look a mess. Our house can be a mess. Our kids cannot be have it all together.

So we switch off all the time on projects that we need to have done, or like she needs help cleaning your house. So I'll pop over for an hour with, you know, Evie and it's great. Like, It's actually built more of like a genuine friendship where we don't feel like we have to have everything all together. We can look a mess. Our house can be a mess. Our kids cannot be have it all together.

But we don't care because that's what genuine friendship is, is in that place of us not just trying to keep a front of who we want people to think that we are. But they're able to actually come into our life and see, okay, they don't have it all together. I don't either. We don't have to keep up this front. And that's how I've now had the best friendship with my friend.

But we don't care because that's what genuine friendship is, is in that place of us not just trying to keep a front of who we want people to think that we are. But they're able to actually come into our life and see, okay, they don't have it all together. I don't either. We don't have to keep up this front. And that's how I've now had the best friendship with my friend.

It's going to be four years.

It's going to be four years.

She just turned four, which is wild.

She just turned four, which is wild.

That was really, really sweet. That is so good. Yeah. Cause we do initially, but yeah, we do initially just think like, Oh, they're going to think so much less of us if we don't have everything together. And if we don't keep up this like facade of who we think we're supposed to be, And I think in that time we do lose ourselves. And like you were even saying, some of it can be a survival thing.

That was really, really sweet. That is so good. Yeah. Cause we do initially, but yeah, we do initially just think like, Oh, they're going to think so much less of us if we don't have everything together. And if we don't keep up this like facade of who we think we're supposed to be, And I think in that time we do lose ourselves. And like you were even saying, some of it can be a survival thing.

We're just not going to talk about that.

We're just not going to talk about that.

Like it really can be in, in how we process and we can think, okay, like, you know, there are times where maybe you have to keep somebody happy with you because they're not a healthy person to be around. And so you just have, you feel like you have to like keep them happy until you can get out of that situation. And like that can be another coping mechanism that we try to use.

Like it really can be in, in how we process and we can think, okay, like, you know, there are times where maybe you have to keep somebody happy with you because they're not a healthy person to be around. And so you just have, you feel like you have to like keep them happy until you can get out of that situation. And like that can be another coping mechanism that we try to use.

Um, but it also is like there, there are different sides to it, but when it comes to genuine friendship, you're not able to build that unless you let people into the messy sides of your life as well as the good sides. And so that's something that it's so hard for all of us to do every single day.

Um, but it also is like there, there are different sides to it, but when it comes to genuine friendship, you're not able to build that unless you let people into the messy sides of your life as well as the good sides. And so that's something that it's so hard for all of us to do every single day.

My thought process was constantly about food. I had friends who naturally were like super skinny. And I would look at these girls and I kept thinking, well, I'm just not pretty enough.

My thought process was constantly about food. I had friends who naturally were like super skinny. And I would look at these girls and I kept thinking, well, I'm just not pretty enough.

For sure. Yes. A hundred percent. I think for me in particular, like that is definitely something I was so insecure for so many years, which led me to some bad places because even with the way that I was viewing eating and things like that, I struggled with like just not eating enough. And it was, it was because I thought I was too fat and I wasn't.

For sure. Yes. A hundred percent. I think for me in particular, like that is definitely something I was so insecure for so many years, which led me to some bad places because even with the way that I was viewing eating and things like that, I struggled with like just not eating enough. And it was, it was because I thought I was too fat and I wasn't.

And it was a thought process of like wanting to belong and wanting to have those friendships that were genuine. And, At some point we realized, okay, well, we were designed for community. That's a good thing. We weren't designed to live on an island by ourselves. We're supposed to be in community with other people. But when sin entered the world, that was broken. And so now...

And it was a thought process of like wanting to belong and wanting to have those friendships that were genuine. And, At some point we realized, okay, well, we were designed for community. That's a good thing. We weren't designed to live on an island by ourselves. We're supposed to be in community with other people. But when sin entered the world, that was broken. And so now...

community can be flawed. We, people will let us down. And so we're afraid of that. We're afraid of their rejection. We fear that if we show them, you know, the side of me struggling, or maybe I don't look as pretty as I want to be, then I'm not going to be accepted.

community can be flawed. We, people will let us down. And so we're afraid of that. We're afraid of their rejection. We fear that if we show them, you know, the side of me struggling, or maybe I don't look as pretty as I want to be, then I'm not going to be accepted.

Um, or I have to have designer clothes to like, to have people notice me and things like that, where we can fall into these tendencies of, um, wanting so desperately to be liked by people and That that desperation leads us to bad places. And it can be where we feel like, okay, now I'm so consumed with myself.

Um, or I have to have designer clothes to like, to have people notice me and things like that, where we can fall into these tendencies of, um, wanting so desperately to be liked by people and That that desperation leads us to bad places. And it can be where we feel like, okay, now I'm so consumed with myself.

I'm so consumed with what everybody around me thinks that ultimately all I care about is myself. I don't even care about you as my friend because I'm thinking, what can I get out of you? What can I take from you instead of what can I give to you? And so I think that that is something that I struggle with for so many years, just wanting to be liked.

I'm so consumed with what everybody around me thinks that ultimately all I care about is myself. I don't even care about you as my friend because I'm thinking, what can I get out of you? What can I take from you instead of what can I give to you? And so I think that that is something that I struggle with for so many years, just wanting to be liked.

And growing up in the setting that I was in, you know, it didn't feel easy to be liked in that because you were awkward. you know, you come from a large family, who else does? Like I had a lot of people around me who did, but then I'm wearing skirts when I play sports in the community. It just feels weird, right?

And growing up in the setting that I was in, you know, it didn't feel easy to be liked in that because you were awkward. you know, you come from a large family, who else does? Like I had a lot of people around me who did, but then I'm wearing skirts when I play sports in the community. It just feels weird, right?

There are a lot of things that were just, you're trying to fit in, you're trying to figure out who you are. And I think a lot of that people pleasing the tendencies of that, um, were even stronger maybe because I was, I was already awkward and not fitting in.

There are a lot of things that were just, you're trying to fit in, you're trying to figure out who you are. And I think a lot of that people pleasing the tendencies of that, um, were even stronger maybe because I was, I was already awkward and not fitting in.

Yeah. I think as I was in the ages of 13, 14, 15... I just saw like, okay, I had friends who naturally were like super skinny and I would look at these girls and think, okay, well I would compare myself to them. And I was actually pretty skinny at that point. Like I was, I didn't have, I wouldn't gain weight easily, but I thought I might.

Yeah. I think as I was in the ages of 13, 14, 15... I just saw like, okay, I had friends who naturally were like super skinny and I would look at these girls and think, okay, well I would compare myself to them. And I was actually pretty skinny at that point. Like I was, I didn't have, I wouldn't gain weight easily, but I thought I might.

And it was that fear of just like, I wasn't as skinny as them, but I was still like healthy, you know? And I think that just the comparison that started to happen in my mind, I didn't, think properly about myself, I kept thinking, well, I'm just not pretty enough or I'm not skinny enough. So I would just try to wake up later in the day and try to avoid meals and things like that.

And it was that fear of just like, I wasn't as skinny as them, but I was still like healthy, you know? And I think that just the comparison that started to happen in my mind, I didn't, think properly about myself, I kept thinking, well, I'm just not pretty enough or I'm not skinny enough. So I would just try to wake up later in the day and try to avoid meals and things like that.

And I felt miserable because I was just thinking like, okay, I don't want to, I don't want to eat. Or I would think if I went to somebody else's house that I'd be like, well, what are we going to eat? Am I going to have something that's going to actually not make me fat? Or is this like, you know, that was my thought process was constantly about food.

And I felt miserable because I was just thinking like, okay, I don't want to, I don't want to eat. Or I would think if I went to somebody else's house that I'd be like, well, what are we going to eat? Am I going to have something that's going to actually not make me fat? Or is this like, you know, that was my thought process was constantly about food.

My entire, um, every day would just be like, I would be consumed with that thought. And, um,

My entire, um, every day would just be like, I would be consumed with that thought. And, um,

I talked to my mom because she was very open, like even, you know, throughout the years and like TV show and all that, she struggled with bulimia for years and which is not something I struggled with, but, um, she, when she was, you know, a teen, that was something she, she really struggled with like on the cheerleading team.

I talked to my mom because she was very open, like even, you know, throughout the years and like TV show and all that, she struggled with bulimia for years and which is not something I struggled with, but, um, she, when she was, you know, a teen, that was something she, she really struggled with like on the cheerleading team.

And, um, so I knew that and I was able to go talk to her after, I don't know how many months of like wrestling with this. Um, And when I talked to her, then she was really sweet in the way she handled it was so helpful because she did not go from one extreme to the other where she was just telling me like, okay, now you need to eat everything in sight.

And, um, so I knew that and I was able to go talk to her after, I don't know how many months of like wrestling with this. Um, And when I talked to her, then she was really sweet in the way she handled it was so helpful because she did not go from one extreme to the other where she was just telling me like, okay, now you need to eat everything in sight.

Like she didn't force me to eat things that were unhealthy. Cause like, I mean, We were in Arkansas. There were casseroles. You could easily gain 50 pounds in a meal if you wanted to. And it was something that she just told me. She's like, well, Ginger, she's like, I really appreciate you telling me that. But like she came up with a plan. Just text me what you eat every day.

Like she didn't force me to eat things that were unhealthy. Cause like, I mean, We were in Arkansas. There were casseroles. You could easily gain 50 pounds in a meal if you wanted to. And it was something that she just told me. She's like, well, Ginger, she's like, I really appreciate you telling me that. But like she came up with a plan. Just text me what you eat every day.

And I'd love to be accountable, too. And I'll text you what I eat. And it was so sweet because in that time I was struggling so much and I was so embarrassed by like how we're struggling and I didn't want to open up to her, but I knew I could cause she's like the sweetest person in the whole world. So when I told her, she was like, yeah, and I can like, I want to try to eat healthier.

And I'd love to be accountable, too. And I'll text you what I eat. And it was so sweet because in that time I was struggling so much and I was so embarrassed by like how we're struggling and I didn't want to open up to her, but I knew I could cause she's like the sweetest person in the whole world. So when I told her, she was like, yeah, and I can like, I want to try to eat healthier.

This pregnancy has been the same as the other ones were. And I am now far enough along to where I'm not nauseous. Very thankful. And yeah, 25 weeks.

This pregnancy has been the same as the other ones were. And I am now far enough along to where I'm not nauseous. Very thankful. And yeah, 25 weeks.

So maybe we can eat healthy together. And she didn't force me to like eat unhealthy stuff, but she was like, I want to make sure you're getting enough protein and if you know, fiber, let's like do this.

So maybe we can eat healthy together. And she didn't force me to like eat unhealthy stuff, but she was like, I want to make sure you're getting enough protein and if you know, fiber, let's like do this.

And so it was that most helpful thing for me because then I started to develop a healthy relationship with food and it was something that I realized, okay, I, yeah, you don't have to like, when you struggled with that, thank you, love. She was like,

And so it was that most helpful thing for me because then I started to develop a healthy relationship with food and it was something that I realized, okay, I, yeah, you don't have to like, when you struggled with that, thank you, love. She was like,

she was telling me like even though you struggle with this it doesn't mean that you have to i'm not going to force you to like eat three cheeseburgers because you don't need to do that but like just eat what's what what you need to eat and that's enough and it was it was helpful for me to process like and she kept telling me like you're beautiful just the way god made you and he designed you just how he wanted you to be so

she was telling me like even though you struggle with this it doesn't mean that you have to i'm not going to force you to like eat three cheeseburgers because you don't need to do that but like just eat what's what what you need to eat and that's enough and it was it was helpful for me to process like and she kept telling me like you're beautiful just the way god made you and he designed you just how he wanted you to be so

Um, all of those things. And even like exercise, right? Like I like to work out. And so that's not a bad thing, but like, what is the driving motivation? Is it to be pleased, like to have the approval of other people around me? Um, or is it just to be healthy and to like eat healthy? workout, all the things that are actually fun and enjoyable about it.

Um, all of those things. And even like exercise, right? Like I like to work out. And so that's not a bad thing, but like, what is the driving motivation? Is it to be pleased, like to have the approval of other people around me? Um, or is it just to be healthy and to like eat healthy? workout, all the things that are actually fun and enjoyable about it.

But that gave me a healthy perspective on food. And then moving forward, I was like, okay, I want to make sure that I'm eating the right amounts for my body, what is required. And then I started to feel better, more energy, more like just enjoying life again, you know, because I wasn't thinking about food.

But that gave me a healthy perspective on food. And then moving forward, I was like, okay, I want to make sure that I'm eating the right amounts for my body, what is required. And then I started to feel better, more energy, more like just enjoying life again, you know, because I wasn't thinking about food.

And then when I go to somebody's house and maybe they had something I typically wouldn't eat or, you it was super greasy or unhealthy, I'd be like, okay, I'm going to eat this and it doesn't matter. Like I'm going to try not to think about it. And some days you can feel icky and it's not always easy. But then I think just after years of that, I have not struggled with that as much.

And then when I go to somebody's house and maybe they had something I typically wouldn't eat or, you it was super greasy or unhealthy, I'd be like, okay, I'm going to eat this and it doesn't matter. Like I'm going to try not to think about it. And some days you can feel icky and it's not always easy. But then I think just after years of that, I have not struggled with that as much.

As I did before, like I just for years have had so much freedom in that and I'm really thankful for it. I think a lot of it really does go back to how my mom handled the situation and helped walk me through it because she had been in a similar place.

As I did before, like I just for years have had so much freedom in that and I'm really thankful for it. I think a lot of it really does go back to how my mom handled the situation and helped walk me through it because she had been in a similar place.

That's so far. That really is. It is. Yeah. It's flown by in a sense. The beginning never flies by. You always feel like rubbish. But getting past that and then being now on a stage where I just feel like,

That's so far. That really is. It is. Yeah. It's flown by in a sense. The beginning never flies by. You always feel like rubbish. But getting past that and then being now on a stage where I just feel like,

It was perfect. And I think like it'll be different for each person if that's something they struggle with. Some people may need more in-depth help. But it was enough for me to know that like she was she kept telling me she always would tell me anything I was struggling with. She's like, you're going to be OK. And those words coming from your mom just mean the world. Right.

It was perfect. And I think like it'll be different for each person if that's something they struggle with. Some people may need more in-depth help. But it was enough for me to know that like she was she kept telling me she always would tell me anything I was struggling with. She's like, you're going to be OK. And those words coming from your mom just mean the world. Right.

Because like you feel like. as a teenager, especially being able to like talk to her about those things, it's hard to open up. But then at the same time, she would always make me feel like it wasn't, it wasn't so out of place, right? Like that reaction, she would never react. And that was something that was super comforting. Cause I knew I wasn't crazy. I wasn't like going insane. Like I was okay.

Because like you feel like. as a teenager, especially being able to like talk to her about those things, it's hard to open up. But then at the same time, she would always make me feel like it wasn't, it wasn't so out of place, right? Like that reaction, she would never react. And that was something that was super comforting. Cause I knew I wasn't crazy. I wasn't like going insane. Like I was okay.

We're going to get through this together. And I did.

We're going to get through this together. And I did.

She's, she's amazing. I love her so much. She's like, yeah, she's a role model. Has she gotten to read your book? So I, I have not sent her copy cause I, we just, that is the first copy I've seen. So as soon as it comes out, I was, but I talked to her about it already a lot. Yeah.

She's, she's amazing. I love her so much. She's like, yeah, she's a role model. Has she gotten to read your book? So I, I have not sent her copy cause I, we just, that is the first copy I've seen. So as soon as it comes out, I was, but I talked to her about it already a lot. Yeah.

We were chatting about it and I was just thanking her for how she helped me so much to like break free from a lot of that people pleasing. So that's so sweet. And the book is dedicated to her. I,

We were chatting about it and I was just thanking her for how she helped me so much to like break free from a lot of that people pleasing. So that's so sweet. And the book is dedicated to her. I,

she really is the sweetest person i wish you could meet her can you my mom you will always be my hero and best friend i love you and i'm extra emotional in pregnancy so i'm going to be crying through this whole thing i felt so i was like gosh dang it did i like make you cry if i ask you that question no but she did you show her this so i haven't yet oh

she really is the sweetest person i wish you could meet her can you my mom you will always be my hero and best friend i love you and i'm extra emotional in pregnancy so i'm going to be crying through this whole thing i felt so i was like gosh dang it did i like make you cry if i ask you that question no but she did you show her this so i haven't yet oh

I haven't yet, but I'm looking forward to getting her cause I don't have a copy yet. So I'm just going to give it to her. Is she emotional? She is, but she's also so she's, she's emotional, but she's also steady.

I haven't yet, but I'm looking forward to getting her cause I don't have a copy yet. So I'm just going to give it to her. Is she emotional? She is, but she's also so she's, she's emotional, but she's also steady.

I think things change whenever you are not in the same state. I'm not able... Sadly, being far from family, you have to make more of a point to call family members. And since I have so many... I try to keep in contact with my mom and my sisters as much as I can. And so I will FaceTime them a lot. We were just talking a couple days ago. And my mom is just such a rock.

I think things change whenever you are not in the same state. I'm not able... Sadly, being far from family, you have to make more of a point to call family members. And since I have so many... I try to keep in contact with my mom and my sisters as much as I can. And so I will FaceTime them a lot. We were just talking a couple days ago. And my mom is just such a rock.

And I feel like Jeremy has really taken on just so much of that too. The encouragement. Because we're a team. And he is just like... always helping me walk through those things or times where people pleasing will just, it bubbles up and there's so much to deal with.

And I feel like Jeremy has really taken on just so much of that too. The encouragement. Because we're a team. And he is just like... always helping me walk through those things or times where people pleasing will just, it bubbles up and there's so much to deal with.

And he is a constant reminder, um, just like reminding me of the things that I need to be reminded of, you know, of who I am in, um, and just like, even in pregnancy, right? Like those things come up where you feel like, oh man, my body's changing. It's going to be so long before I feel like I'm actually strong again or, um,

And he is a constant reminder, um, just like reminding me of the things that I need to be reminded of, you know, of who I am in, um, and just like, even in pregnancy, right? Like those things come up where you feel like, oh man, my body's changing. It's going to be so long before I feel like I'm actually strong again or, um,

I feel like you can actually like function again and do all the things I want to do. But like, he's constantly telling me like, no, I love this. Like pregnancy is so beautiful. And just remember that, like remember the stage you're in to enjoy it and not to like let it slip by. And all of those things that I need to be reminded of. He's so good.

I feel like you can actually like function again and do all the things I want to do. But like, he's constantly telling me like, no, I love this. Like pregnancy is so beautiful. And just remember that, like remember the stage you're in to enjoy it and not to like let it slip by. And all of those things that I need to be reminded of. He's so good.

I'm going to buy, I'm going to totally buy the jeans that you were telling me about because I'm like, I can't find them. I've never tried them personally, but I know that Abercrombie has maternity ones. That's the thing. I've not, I've not shopped on there, but I need, I need jeans because I'm wearing leggings today because I just don't have any that fit.

I'm going to buy, I'm going to totally buy the jeans that you were telling me about because I'm like, I can't find them. I've never tried them personally, but I know that Abercrombie has maternity ones. That's the thing. I've not, I've not shopped on there, but I need, I need jeans because I'm wearing leggings today because I just don't have any that fit.

Yeah. I know. It happens. I couldn't wear big dresses. I always gained so much weight in pregnancy. Yes, totally. I know. Dresses are not always as flattering in pregnancy either. Yeah. I'm just like, nah. Nah.

Yeah. I know. It happens. I couldn't wear big dresses. I always gained so much weight in pregnancy. Yes, totally. I know. Dresses are not always as flattering in pregnancy either. Yeah. I'm just like, nah. Nah.

I do feel bad about that because it's something that having that many siblings, it makes you feel more guilty because we live away. A couple of my siblings do now that are married, but that's only recent, like in the past year. And so most of them live near each other. So they're constantly around each Everyone, all the nieces and nephews were at like 35 or six. I don't even remember.

I do feel bad about that because it's something that having that many siblings, it makes you feel more guilty because we live away. A couple of my siblings do now that are married, but that's only recent, like in the past year. And so most of them live near each other. So they're constantly around each Everyone, all the nieces and nephews were at like 35 or six. I don't even remember.

35 grandkids. Yeah. There are so many. And so, and they're just getting started. It's going to be so much more. It's probably going to be a hundred and we're going to have to have name tags. Like, I'm not kidding. Like, I'm not kidding. It's wild. So with all that, there's literally no way, no way that you could call every single sibling all the time. Right.

35 grandkids. Yeah. There are so many. And so, and they're just getting started. It's going to be so much more. It's probably going to be a hundred and we're going to have to have name tags. Like, I'm not kidding. Like, I'm not kidding. It's wild. So with all that, there's literally no way, no way that you could call every single sibling all the time. Right.

We're not having 19, so I don't know.

We're not having 19, so I don't know.

It's very possible. Well, okay, get this, get this. So one of my brothers, he is a twin. Okay. And he is, he and his wife have two kids under the age of two and they're pregnant with twins.

It's very possible. Well, okay, get this, get this. So one of my brothers, he is a twin. Okay. And he is, he and his wife have two kids under the age of two and they're pregnant with twins.

Jed and Katie. They're pregnant with twins. Wait, they have two kids under the age of two and they're pregnant with twins? Yes, and their twins are going to be born before their oldest turns three. So they're going to have four under the age of two. That, oh my gosh. So it's possible. Like I said, it's possible.

Jed and Katie. They're pregnant with twins. Wait, they have two kids under the age of two and they're pregnant with twins? Yes, and their twins are going to be born before their oldest turns three. So they're going to have four under the age of two. That, oh my gosh. So it's possible. Like I said, it's possible.

They do.

They do.

I think if you have twins or triplets, you need to move near family.

I think if you have twins or triplets, you need to move near family.

So, yeah, it could happen. But the other day, Felicity, this is... Okay. This is a confession. This is a confession. So Felicity, she's my six year old and she, um, we were talking about, I was talking about one of my siblings or something. And then she's like, wait, you have a sibling with that name. It just happens. She, that's her aunt or uncle.

So, yeah, it could happen. But the other day, Felicity, this is... Okay. This is a confession. This is a confession. So Felicity, she's my six year old and she, um, we were talking about, I was talking about one of my siblings or something. And then she's like, wait, you have a sibling with that name. It just happens. She, that's her aunt or uncle.

Yeah, it's just crazy though. Nothing's changed there because I'm like, I know I can't, not taking like a scalding bath, but like a shower.

Yeah, it's just crazy though. Nothing's changed there because I'm like, I know I can't, not taking like a scalding bath, but like a shower.

You know, it's like, because there's so many, she just, she knows them. She's met all of them, hangs out with them. But it's like, there are the younger ones, um, she will know some of them, but then like their names, it's hard to keep up with all the names.

You know, it's like, because there's so many, she just, she knows them. She's met all of them, hangs out with them. But it's like, there are the younger ones, um, she will know some of them, but then like their names, it's hard to keep up with all the names.

And since we don't see them all the time, she knows a lot of the nieces and nephews even better, maybe than all of the aunts and uncles who can't travel all the time by themselves. So that's the thing. My siblings, my youngest sibling is 15 now. She just turned 15 yesterday and it's like crazy, you know, but they can't travel by themselves.

And since we don't see them all the time, she knows a lot of the nieces and nephews even better, maybe than all of the aunts and uncles who can't travel all the time by themselves. So that's the thing. My siblings, my youngest sibling is 15 now. She just turned 15 yesterday and it's like crazy, you know, but they can't travel by themselves.

And so like, if they're not all out to visit all the time, it's easy to forget.

And so like, if they're not all out to visit all the time, it's easy to forget.

Like she can't remember the name Johanna. And she's like, wait, what? That's like one of your siblings? But it's just because there are so many. Yeah. And that happens.

Like she can't remember the name Johanna. And she's like, wait, what? That's like one of your siblings? But it's just because there are so many. Yeah. And that happens.

No, he does not.

No, he does not.

Go for it. We've done this one, well, it was a couple years ago, so maybe you do now. Go.

Go for it. We've done this one, well, it was a couple years ago, so maybe you do now. Go.

As long as it's on my back, I'm good. And I just cannot change the temp because then I'm freezing. Yes, it's really cold otherwise.

As long as it's on my back, I'm good. And I just cannot change the temp because then I'm freezing. Yes, it's really cold otherwise.

In order.

In order.

Nope. Ginger. Ginger.

Nope. Ginger. Ginger.

My birth plan is literally to go in and have the baby. I just don't like to plan a lot of things.

My birth plan is literally to go in and have the baby. I just don't like to plan a lot of things.

Probably, yes.

Probably, yes.

I try. So we have a group message, a family group message, and they will always say. So I think today is Austin's birthday.

I try. So we have a group message, a family group message, and they will always say. So I think today is Austin's birthday.

And yesterday was Josie's birthday. So, yeah, it's great.

And yesterday was Josie's birthday. So, yeah, it's great.

Okay, we are back. So in your book, you talked about how when Jeremy asked you out for the very first time...

Okay, we are back. So in your book, you talked about how when Jeremy asked you out for the very first time...

What was that like? Yeah, it was interesting, but I think it was so normal for me. It was super normal because that's all that I grew up doing. But yeah, I don't know. I never knew that they would have you repeat stuff like that. They would try not to for special things like that.

What was that like? Yeah, it was interesting, but I think it was so normal for me. It was super normal because that's all that I grew up doing. But yeah, I don't know. I never knew that they would have you repeat stuff like that. They would try not to for special things like that.

I hate it when it's cold. When I say cold, I mean like Jeremy would feel like he was boiling in my cold water. So I can't take a bath because I know I will want it boiling. And so I just, I'm like showers are the way to go. I was very careful.

I hate it when it's cold. When I say cold, I mean like Jeremy would feel like he was boiling in my cold water. So I can't take a bath because I know I will want it boiling. And so I just, I'm like showers are the way to go. I was very careful.

They would have one shot where it's very easy for you to just get it done, one and done, because they do want to get your genuine reaction. Yeah. But I think that day, there was like... We had to go out on the front porch. So there was like... You had to come down the stairs. Okay, now go back up. Now come back down. Now come out the door. Now go back in.

They would have one shot where it's very easy for you to just get it done, one and done, because they do want to get your genuine reaction. Yeah. But I think that day, there was like... We had to go out on the front porch. So there was like... You had to come down the stairs. Okay, now go back up. Now come back down. Now come out the door. Now go back in.

Because they didn't have enough crews that day, probably. So it may have been like one crew instead of the typical where they have two.

Because they didn't have enough crews that day, probably. So it may have been like one crew instead of the typical where they have two.

Yeah, way in advance.

Yeah, way in advance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, okay, because you have... And they will have some things you have to talk about. Like if you... They'll give you a couple talking points. So like he would say whatever he wants, but then he has to make sure... And usually at that point, the producer would step in and say, Hey, like you didn't cover this. Um, so can you just chat for two minutes about it?

Like, okay, because you have... And they will have some things you have to talk about. Like if you... They'll give you a couple talking points. So like he would say whatever he wants, but then he has to make sure... And usually at that point, the producer would step in and say, Hey, like you didn't cover this. Um, so can you just chat for two minutes about it?

Because otherwise, the challenge is people are missing major parts of the story that those who have been watching forever get. So they understand the background and where Jeremy came from, but sometimes they need you to rehash things so many times for those who weren't there.

Because otherwise, the challenge is people are missing major parts of the story that those who have been watching forever get. So they understand the background and where Jeremy came from, but sometimes they need you to rehash things so many times for those who weren't there.

Like we understand what needs to happen to get there.

Like we understand what needs to happen to get there.

But half the time I'm just like, no.

But half the time I'm just like, no.

Or you have to talk about something you've talked about so many times as a topic.

Or you have to talk about something you've talked about so many times as a topic.

So that was after we were married. That's when you felt frustrated.

So that was after we were married. That's when you felt frustrated.

You know, Jeremy, what are you planning?

You know, Jeremy, what are you planning?

For instance, like when the weddings, all my siblings got married, like one year we had three weddings in a year. And so every time a wedding would happen, we knew what we were going to be asked. Okay, tell us about how you first met. Take us back to your wedding day. Take us back to your first kiss. And we would always have to re-answer questions that we had just answered a couple months before.

For instance, like when the weddings, all my siblings got married, like one year we had three weddings in a year. And so every time a wedding would happen, we knew what we were going to be asked. Okay, tell us about how you first met. Take us back to your wedding day. Take us back to your first kiss. And we would always have to re-answer questions that we had just answered a couple months before.

So those types of things, we would be like, uh, like, okay, we talked about this and everybody's going to have, they're going to have it memorized. The answer, because we've had to talk about it so many times recently. So things like that, which it's not the end of the world. It was just like, it was just like a little reality TV.

So those types of things, we would be like, uh, like, okay, we talked about this and everybody's going to have, they're going to have it memorized. The answer, because we've had to talk about it so many times recently. So things like that, which it's not the end of the world. It was just like, it was just like a little reality TV.

I know what they're going to think. That's probably why sometimes I won't want to like go that route of like making everything so perfect on the blog because it was years of that. So in my head, I feel like I could produce a show.

I know what they're going to think. That's probably why sometimes I won't want to like go that route of like making everything so perfect on the blog because it was years of that. So in my head, I feel like I could produce a show.

I, I've always said, I told Jeremy, I was like, if I ever went to like work at a normal job, then I would, I would want to be a PA in LA to be a production assistant. So it's great because I don't know. I feel like it just seems so fun.

I, I've always said, I told Jeremy, I was like, if I ever went to like work at a normal job, then I would, I would want to be a PA in LA to be a production assistant. So it's great because I don't know. I feel like it just seems so fun.

holding the boom so no the pas don't even do that oh yeah they only they'll hold the the like reflectors and stuff for the crew but they get the coffee they get the food and they make sure that they have enough c47s you know or whatever they're called so um just the little clothespins yep

holding the boom so no the pas don't even do that oh yeah they only they'll hold the the like reflectors and stuff for the crew but they get the coffee they get the food and they make sure that they have enough c47s you know or whatever they're called so um just the little clothespins yep

yeah i'm hopeful i think so i think i definitely think that the more time that goes on with that and then also like even with social media right like that's the next thing it's it's reality tv basically for a ton of people because they're putting everything on social media and so i think that the way that people view it or maybe like for us like protecting our kids and you all as well like

yeah i'm hopeful i think so i think i definitely think that the more time that goes on with that and then also like even with social media right like that's the next thing it's it's reality tv basically for a ton of people because they're putting everything on social media and so i think that the way that people view it or maybe like for us like protecting our kids and you all as well like

There are certain things that each family will realize, like, OK, maybe we're not going to go that far or maybe we're going to have certain parameters here. And I think that you'll start to see more of that the older that kids get who grew up in it.

There are certain things that each family will realize, like, OK, maybe we're not going to go that far or maybe we're going to have certain parameters here. And I think that you'll start to see more of that the older that kids get who grew up in it.

I growing up on TV from the age of 10 until 27, um, it was something that it was just my life. And so looking at that, I think through the hard times, that's when I really started to think like, okay, do I want my kids to have this life? Do I want them to be front and center in everything that we do? And both of us felt like, Like we didn't want that for our kids. We wanted to give them privacy.

I growing up on TV from the age of 10 until 27, um, it was something that it was just my life. And so looking at that, I think through the hard times, that's when I really started to think like, okay, do I want my kids to have this life? Do I want them to be front and center in everything that we do? And both of us felt like, Like we didn't want that for our kids. We wanted to give them privacy.

Like for real though, so we, whenever we were first talking about like Felicity's birth, Um, I just like a lot of my sisters had complications with theirs and they were like all trying to do home births or like have midwife or be at a birth center. And I just, they would get transported. And I was like, I'm not doing that. And Jeremy for sure was like, no way.

Like for real though, so we, whenever we were first talking about like Felicity's birth, Um, I just like a lot of my sisters had complications with theirs and they were like all trying to do home births or like have midwife or be at a birth center. And I just, they would get transported. And I was like, I'm not doing that. And Jeremy for sure was like, no way.

And then if they choose to be in the public eye later, that's all cool. Like we were all for whatever they want to do, but for us not to make that the driving force of what we do, because I think that whenever everything's going great, it can seem fine. But then whenever you have challenges and trials and like your kids are in the middle of it, it just makes it all harder.

And then if they choose to be in the public eye later, that's all cool. Like we were all for whatever they want to do, but for us not to make that the driving force of what we do, because I think that whenever everything's going great, it can seem fine. But then whenever you have challenges and trials and like your kids are in the middle of it, it just makes it all harder.

And also for the privacy, we wanted to like not show their faces. That way they're not recognizable and they can have that just protection. And also like we don't highlight them a lot in like what we talk about. We'll talk about them here and there publicly, but we aren't like. we don't talk about every little thing that they're doing.

And also for the privacy, we wanted to like not show their faces. That way they're not recognizable and they can have that just protection. And also like we don't highlight them a lot in like what we talk about. We'll talk about them here and there publicly, but we aren't like. we don't talk about every little thing that they're doing.

And I think some of that is just because we want to make sure that they're able to just have their childhood. However, you know, just live it out, live out their childhood, enjoy it. And, and not, we're not using that as an opportunity for us to gain anything from. Um, and it was just something that we were convicted of and other people who do things differently. Um,

And I think some of that is just because we want to make sure that they're able to just have their childhood. However, you know, just live it out, live out their childhood, enjoy it. And, and not, we're not using that as an opportunity for us to gain anything from. Um, and it was just something that we were convicted of and other people who do things differently. Um,

I, I see why they do it and I don't have a problem with that. It's just us personally. I think especially the way that, um, you know, growing up in that setting, that's why I'm more protective of my kids now. And I don't have any, like, it's not like I have major regrets or, Oh, I wish I didn't have this exposure, but I think I just see the, the positives and the negatives. And I just feel more

I, I see why they do it and I don't have a problem with that. It's just us personally. I think especially the way that, um, you know, growing up in that setting, that's why I'm more protective of my kids now. And I don't have any, like, it's not like I have major regrets or, Oh, I wish I didn't have this exposure, but I think I just see the, the positives and the negatives. And I just feel more

Yeah, there's a season where it was a little out of hand. And I found myself trying to go to the post office and being followed and just going back home because I was like, I'm not going to go.

Yeah, there's a season where it was a little out of hand. And I found myself trying to go to the post office and being followed and just going back home because I was like, I'm not going to go.

there was a season where it was just very stressful and a lot of public family stuff was happening and so we're easy targets because we did not live in a gated community and they could just literally see me open my door, get my mail and take pictures and then they get money.

there was a season where it was just very stressful and a lot of public family stuff was happening and so we're easy targets because we did not live in a gated community and they could just literally see me open my door, get my mail and take pictures and then they get money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's interesting. One time I even drove to the police station because I think after so many months of it, it started to wear on me. Honestly, I felt like I just wanted to keep all my windows closed and not go out because it was so stressful. And it was around a lot of the time where...

That's interesting. One time I even drove to the police station because I think after so many months of it, it started to wear on me. Honestly, I felt like I just wanted to keep all my windows closed and not go out because it was so stressful. And it was around a lot of the time where...

It wasn't just like they did want pictures of me, but it was more so because they wanted to write articles about other family stuff that was happening. And all the pictures were of me because it was easy to get. And the family lives in Arkansas, so you have to fly people in, right? So I got it. But there was one time I was driving and I drove for like 15 minutes trying to lose them safely.

It wasn't just like they did want pictures of me, but it was more so because they wanted to write articles about other family stuff that was happening. And all the pictures were of me because it was easy to get. And the family lives in Arkansas, so you have to fly people in, right? So I got it. But there was one time I was driving and I drove for like 15 minutes trying to lose them safely.

I had a way of doing it. I would go through like all of these neighborhoods and I'd backtrack. And if the car followed me, then I knew I was being followed. And... I would memorize the cars on our street. There was like 30 cars, you know, of our neighbors had them all memorized. If there was a weird one, I'd write it down on my notes.

I had a way of doing it. I would go through like all of these neighborhoods and I'd backtrack. And if the car followed me, then I knew I was being followed. And... I would memorize the cars on our street. There was like 30 cars, you know, of our neighbors had them all memorized. If there was a weird one, I'd write it down on my notes.

Like we're not going that route because it's just, well, it wasn't against a midwife or a birth center, but I wanted us to be at the hospital in the hospital with us. So there's a difference. Like you're there if you need, if you have an emergency, you're not being transported. So that's what we decided to do. But my birth plan is literally to go in and have the baby.

Like we're not going that route because it's just, well, it wasn't against a midwife or a birth center, but I wanted us to be at the hospital in the hospital with us. So there's a difference. Like you're there if you need, if you have an emergency, you're not being transported. So that's what we decided to do. But my birth plan is literally to go in and have the baby.

Cause I knew that they were probably sitting there waiting to get pictures or waiting to follow me. And some of them would not blur our kids' faces for a while. And we had to like, as soon as it was posted, I would get on them and I would like message, you need to take that down immediately or blur their face. So things like that, right? So it was just a struggle.

Cause I knew that they were probably sitting there waiting to get pictures or waiting to follow me. And some of them would not blur our kids' faces for a while. And we had to like, as soon as it was posted, I would get on them and I would like message, you need to take that down immediately or blur their face. So things like that, right? So it was just a struggle.

But this one time I even went to the police station and asked them if they, I was like, Hey, I'm being followed. Can you please take care of this? They're like, why are you being followed? I was like, well, it's paparazzi. And they said, we can't do anything.

But this one time I even went to the police station and asked them if they, I was like, Hey, I'm being followed. Can you please take care of this? They're like, why are you being followed? I was like, well, it's paparazzi. And they said, we can't do anything.

They said we can't do anything. They said you can stay here as long as you'd like. But that was at some point where every time I went out, it started getting shaky because I couldn't even, I felt so anxious. Even though I knew they were just going to take a picture, it's in your head, right? Like I have my kids. Yeah. And you're in LA.

They said we can't do anything. They said you can stay here as long as you'd like. But that was at some point where every time I went out, it started getting shaky because I couldn't even, I felt so anxious. Even though I knew they were just going to take a picture, it's in your head, right? Like I have my kids. Yeah. And you're in LA.

You want to think you're safe, but then you also realize, well, there could be some crazy people out there. Yeah. You don't know who's who. So I'm being followed by dark tint car, dark tinted car. And I know, okay, this one I knew was paparazzi because he had got pictures of me before and I knew his car. I had it on my list.

You want to think you're safe, but then you also realize, well, there could be some crazy people out there. Yeah. You don't know who's who. So I'm being followed by dark tint car, dark tinted car. And I know, okay, this one I knew was paparazzi because he had got pictures of me before and I knew his car. I had it on my list.

So like, you know, it just, those types of things come up. Well, there was a funny story. I was, um, I say it's funny now, but like that, this is what happened. I went to the grocery store. It was on Felicity's birthday. I was getting her party supplies. So I had like tons of cases of like, um, drinks and on the very front, I had like two cases of water or whatever. And, um,

So like, you know, it just, those types of things come up. Well, there was a funny story. I was, um, I say it's funny now, but like that, this is what happened. I went to the grocery store. It was on Felicity's birthday. I was getting her party supplies. So I had like tons of cases of like, um, drinks and on the very front, I had like two cases of water or whatever. And, um,

And when they checked, they did the checkout thing, they took the case of water off and barely put it on the front, like on the very bottom. And so it was hanging off the front of the cart. Well, I go walk out of the store and I hit a divot in the parking lot. And the entire cart goes up in the air and starts to flip.

And when they checked, they did the checkout thing, they took the case of water off and barely put it on the front, like on the very bottom. And so it was hanging off the front of the cart. Well, I go walk out of the store and I hit a divot in the parking lot. And the entire cart goes up in the air and starts to flip.

Well, I had on top of the cart, like where the kids typically would sit in the child seat, there was like another case of water and bags of ice. So I am... As soon as this goes up, the cart goes up, I'm literally putting my entire body on top of the cart, trying to hold it down. I'm trying to pull the cart down. It was so funny. It was one of... I was like, this is my most embarrassing moment.

Well, I had on top of the cart, like where the kids typically would sit in the child seat, there was like another case of water and bags of ice. So I am... As soon as this goes up, the cart goes up, I'm literally putting my entire body on top of the cart, trying to hold it down. I'm trying to pull the cart down. It was so funny. It was one of... I was like, this is my most embarrassing moment.

As it was happening, I was thinking... This is just so mortifying because like I'm losing my entire cart load of all the groceries. Like everything's about to flip totally over. So in that moment, I was able to like recover the cart probably because I was working out a lot at that time. I was actually strong enough. Like I almost lost it. Like I literally almost flipped the entire cart.

As it was happening, I was thinking... This is just so mortifying because like I'm losing my entire cart load of all the groceries. Like everything's about to flip totally over. So in that moment, I was able to like recover the cart probably because I was working out a lot at that time. I was actually strong enough. Like I almost lost it. Like I literally almost flipped the entire cart.

So get it recovered. And I, I'm looking around like, did anybody see me? Did anybody see me? Oh, sure. Like, this is great. There were people who saw, um, but they're just kind of like, okay, that's weird going about their business. And then put everything in the car, got home. It was fine. And it was like a day or two later, there was an article that

So get it recovered. And I, I'm looking around like, did anybody see me? Did anybody see me? Oh, sure. Like, this is great. There were people who saw, um, but they're just kind of like, okay, that's weird going about their business. And then put everything in the car, got home. It was fine. And it was like a day or two later, there was an article that

That's how I plan. Because if I plan anything else, it's not going to happen. That's what I feel like. I feel like birth is, you can, well, this is my personal opinion. Let me just say that. I feel like with the ones who plan so much out, they were more stressed because their plan did not go as planned. For me, I'm not a planner in general. I just don't like to plan a lot of things.

That's how I plan. Because if I plan anything else, it's not going to happen. That's what I feel like. I feel like birth is, you can, well, this is my personal opinion. Let me just say that. I feel like with the ones who plan so much out, they were more stressed because their plan did not go as planned. For me, I'm not a planner in general. I just don't like to plan a lot of things.

And it popped up and it was like, I can't even remember the headline now, like off the top of my head, but basically like ginger almost take ginger takes a spill or her car takes a spill, whatever. It was really funny. And it had all the progression of photos, me walking out of the store.

And it popped up and it was like, I can't even remember the headline now, like off the top of my head, but basically like ginger almost take ginger takes a spill or her car takes a spill, whatever. It was really funny. And it had all the progression of photos, me walking out of the store.

Um, I had like a Mickey mask on, you know, so I look like a clown already and I'm like walking out and I'm like happy or whatever. And then you see my face and

Um, I had like a Mickey mask on, you know, so I look like a clown already and I'm like walking out and I'm like happy or whatever. And then you see my face and

That moment. It has the full progression of all the photos. I sat there and typically I feel like I'm about to cry when I see photos because I'm like, leave me alone. But that time I laughed out loud for like days.

That moment. It has the full progression of all the photos. I sat there and typically I feel like I'm about to cry when I see photos because I'm like, leave me alone. But that time I laughed out loud for like days.

I would be sitting there doing something, washing dishes, and I would start laughing out loud because I was like, it was like, it felt like such an embarrassing moment when you're in that setting. Like I'm such an idiot. I should have checked the front of the cart. But I actually reposted it because I thought it was so funny. I reposted just the photo and just said like, this happened, you know?

I would be sitting there doing something, washing dishes, and I would start laughing out loud because I was like, it was like, it felt like such an embarrassing moment when you're in that setting. Like I'm such an idiot. I should have checked the front of the cart. But I actually reposted it because I thought it was so funny. I reposted just the photo and just said like, this happened, you know?

Because it was one of those moments where I just thought, okay, like everybody will have something like this happen where you're just like so embarrassed. And I said, just when I thought no one was looking, you know, like I, you're just had that sigh of relief. At least no one else was here with me. None of my friends or anything. And then it's everywhere. So that one, I got a good laugh out of.

Because it was one of those moments where I just thought, okay, like everybody will have something like this happen where you're just like so embarrassed. And I said, just when I thought no one was looking, you know, like I, you're just had that sigh of relief. At least no one else was here with me. None of my friends or anything. And then it's everywhere. So that one, I got a good laugh out of.

And it really was, it was so funny. I looked it up, I'll be honest with you.

And it really was, it was so funny. I looked it up, I'll be honest with you.

Yeah, it was so good.

Yeah, it was so good.

how could you that's crazy that must be frustrating all the headlines and so that was part of the frustration too is like i'm not trying to like rub anything in anyone's face either that's still like in that place like i don't that's but the headlines half of them are like ginger you know bashes or family or whatever i'm like no i'm literally just living my life

how could you that's crazy that must be frustrating all the headlines and so that was part of the frustration too is like i'm not trying to like rub anything in anyone's face either that's still like in that place like i don't that's but the headlines half of them are like ginger you know bashes or family or whatever i'm like no i'm literally just living my life

I love my family. For sure. And that's the difference, right? So that was an experience.

I love my family. For sure. And that's the difference, right? So that was an experience.

Were they denim skirts? too it was not it was like a modest swimwear so the had like built in almost like leggings like this but then it had a dress part that was like swim material but it came down like oh it was made for made for swimming yeah wow they call it modest something modest swimwear but i don't remember is that a brand no

Were they denim skirts? too it was not it was like a modest swimwear so the had like built in almost like leggings like this but then it had a dress part that was like swim material but it came down like oh it was made for made for swimming yeah wow they call it modest something modest swimwear but i don't remember is that a brand no

can't remember the brand name she's like i think our neighbor showed them yeah wait actually it was interesting no no no you could buy this on the market it's yeah it was just an interesting thing and they had like it was just not easy to swim in let's just say that so i didn't learn how to swim and then even if i did get in the water there was one time i was so embarrassed you know i was like i just i'm not gonna do this

can't remember the brand name she's like i think our neighbor showed them yeah wait actually it was interesting no no no you could buy this on the market it's yeah it was just an interesting thing and they had like it was just not easy to swim in let's just say that so i didn't learn how to swim and then even if i did get in the water there was one time i was so embarrassed you know i was like i just i'm not gonna do this

We don't either, actually. Close up of the unplanned side.

We don't either, actually. Close up of the unplanned side.

so I just avoid it like avoid water like the plague until we lived in California where you can't avoid water yeah now you're learning so I am I we have a pool we have a fence around it because our kids are just well Felicity's just learning to swim like this summer she just started swim lessons and um I learned to swim but I'm not like a very confident swimmer yet um so I'm getting there I'm not a really good swimmer actually either

so I just avoid it like avoid water like the plague until we lived in California where you can't avoid water yeah now you're learning so I am I we have a pool we have a fence around it because our kids are just well Felicity's just learning to swim like this summer she just started swim lessons and um I learned to swim but I'm not like a very confident swimmer yet um so I'm getting there I'm not a really good swimmer actually either

But seriously.

But seriously.

She's from Hawaii. She's amazing. She's taught all of her kids, a lot of friends to swim. So she's like, she was so sweet. I was actually like very pregnant with Evie, our second. And she was like, come over. Cause I was just telling her how embarrassed I was. I couldn't swim. And also, I wanted for safety to be able to help my kids.

She's from Hawaii. She's amazing. She's taught all of her kids, a lot of friends to swim. So she's like, she was so sweet. I was actually like very pregnant with Evie, our second. And she was like, come over. Cause I was just telling her how embarrassed I was. I couldn't swim. And also, I wanted for safety to be able to help my kids.

So I knew I needed to learn. And she was like, I'm going to teach you. So the only problem was, wouldn't recommend trying to learn how to swim when you're eight months pregnant. Yeah. Not ideal. You already are having trouble catching your breath, but she was so sweet. I actually was able to like get a lot of the basics.

So I knew I needed to learn. And she was like, I'm going to teach you. So the only problem was, wouldn't recommend trying to learn how to swim when you're eight months pregnant. Yeah. Not ideal. You already are having trouble catching your breath, but she was so sweet. I actually was able to like get a lot of the basics.

And then after I had Evie, I went back and she really like helped me and then it clicked. So I know how to swim now. Like in theory, I can do it. I can jump into the deep end of the pool and I can get to the side. I can swim across the pool maybe if I push off. I'm not going to die at this point. That's it. Survival. I can survive in a pool.

And then after I had Evie, I went back and she really like helped me and then it clicked. So I know how to swim now. Like in theory, I can do it. I can jump into the deep end of the pool and I can get to the side. I can swim across the pool maybe if I push off. I'm not going to die at this point. That's it. Survival. I can survive in a pool.

Yeah, this is great. So I go in, I go in and I'm like, okay, I know I'm going to labor as long as I can without an epidural and then I will get an epidural and then I will have the baby. That's what I want to do. That's my plan. And I don't. Even the doctors, they're like, okay, well, you're kind of going to go through some doctors and see who's on call. And I'm like, that's fine. Let's do that.

Yeah, this is great. So I go in, I go in and I'm like, okay, I know I'm going to labor as long as I can without an epidural and then I will get an epidural and then I will have the baby. That's what I want to do. That's my plan. And I don't. Even the doctors, they're like, okay, well, you're kind of going to go through some doctors and see who's on call. And I'm like, that's fine. Let's do that.

I looked horrible. Okay, so she recorded videos so I could remember for the next time I come back. Let's put those videos up. Those are not coming out ever. I mean, I was embarrassed to show Jeremy. But she's like, let's show him your progress. And then I watched the video and I was like...

I looked horrible. Okay, so she recorded videos so I could remember for the next time I come back. Let's put those videos up. Those are not coming out ever. I mean, I was embarrassed to show Jeremy. But she's like, let's show him your progress. And then I watched the video and I was like...

no like talk about being a people pleaser i was not about to send him the video because it looks so bad that's how you know you're a people pleaser you're afraid of showing your husband i know there have been so many times where i'm like no he gets embarrassed by stuff and i'm like babe it's me it's just us yeah he always tells me that so that's how bad a people pleaser i was though that

no like talk about being a people pleaser i was not about to send him the video because it looks so bad that's how you know you're a people pleaser you're afraid of showing your husband i know there have been so many times where i'm like no he gets embarrassed by stuff and i'm like babe it's me it's just us yeah he always tells me that so that's how bad a people pleaser i was though that

That's sweet, though.

That's sweet, though.

Share that fact because that is really cool. there are people that were studied that are super agers because they were trying to figure out like what makes them age so well and how do they live so long? And I'm trying to like, remember all the specifics of that story, but,

Share that fact because that is really cool. there are people that were studied that are super agers because they were trying to figure out like what makes them age so well and how do they live so long? And I'm trying to like, remember all the specifics of that story, but,

It is the community that like drives them. And that's how they, that's how they're actually, because they're so engrossed in the community around them, that actually gives them what they need to live longer and to live the happiest, most fulfilled life that they possibly can. And it's a sweet thing because sometimes we think like, okay, we're fine on our own.

It is the community that like drives them. And that's how they, that's how they're actually, because they're so engrossed in the community around them, that actually gives them what they need to live longer and to live the happiest, most fulfilled life that they possibly can. And it's a sweet thing because sometimes we think like, okay, we're fine on our own.

And there will be seasons where, I don't know, there are seasons where I feel like, oh, I'm such an extrovert. And then like, I have to be around people, but then I also feel like they're introverted sides of me too.

And there will be seasons where, I don't know, there are seasons where I feel like, oh, I'm such an extrovert. And then like, I have to be around people, but then I also feel like they're introverted sides of me too.

where i could just be so content to just like want to isolate myself but part of that is because of the people pleasing i feel like well it's more comfortable yes because you're thinking what does this person think about me how am i appearing before them like all these things and then when you get in that thought process like well i'll just isolate myself and stay home yeah or i just won't connect with somebody i won't go to dinner with them because i just feel like a mess today

where i could just be so content to just like want to isolate myself but part of that is because of the people pleasing i feel like well it's more comfortable yes because you're thinking what does this person think about me how am i appearing before them like all these things and then when you get in that thought process like well i'll just isolate myself and stay home yeah or i just won't connect with somebody i won't go to dinner with them because i just feel like a mess today

But that comes up. That's the first thing that we think about as people pleasers. And I think that when we realize that's unhealthy and it's also selfish and it's manipulative to think like, okay, I'm going to try to figure out how I can make everybody else think I'm great. in this situation, then you're going into every situation, not caring for that person, not loving them like you should.

But that comes up. That's the first thing that we think about as people pleasers. And I think that when we realize that's unhealthy and it's also selfish and it's manipulative to think like, okay, I'm going to try to figure out how I can make everybody else think I'm great. in this situation, then you're going into every situation, not caring for that person, not loving them like you should.

Cause all you're doing is trying to get something out of them.

Cause all you're doing is trying to get something out of them.

So I'm not worried about it. Because if I think about it, then I will get freaked out.

So I'm not worried about it. Because if I think about it, then I will get freaked out.

I will eat Brahms every single day.

I will eat Brahms every single day.

It's so precious, that couple.

It's so precious, that couple.

Yeah. And part of it was like we didn't look like everyone else there because they may have been homeschool families, but they were not like us. They're more mainstream or whatever. And then there were also people from the community who were not even homeschoolers. There's just like a hodgepodge of broomball players. And. And it's like, yeah, it was crazy.

Yeah. And part of it was like we didn't look like everyone else there because they may have been homeschool families, but they were not like us. They're more mainstream or whatever. And then there were also people from the community who were not even homeschoolers. There's just like a hodgepodge of broomball players. And. And it's like, yeah, it was crazy.

So but we looked we did not look like everyone else either. You know, we didn't blend in as well. And so there was a certain side of like feeling insecure about that. Right. Like, how do we fit in? And I always felt like so awkward and uncomfortable in those settings. And then we can't afford anything. So that's another embarrassment on top of it.

So but we looked we did not look like everyone else either. You know, we didn't blend in as well. And so there was a certain side of like feeling insecure about that. Right. Like, how do we fit in? And I always felt like so awkward and uncomfortable in those settings. And then we can't afford anything. So that's another embarrassment on top of it.

So you're sitting there and this, this couple, they would always ask us like, what are you interested in? What are you, you know, what do you, what are you like, I don't know, up to these days. And they would ask us questions and really try to like get to know us as kids. And it was sweet because, you know, they weren't gaining anything from that.

So you're sitting there and this, this couple, they would always ask us like, what are you interested in? What are you, you know, what do you, what are you like, I don't know, up to these days. And they would ask us questions and really try to like get to know us as kids. And it was sweet because, you know, they weren't gaining anything from that.

And like, we were awkward and dressed different than everyone else. And I think that That was something that stood out to me. They really cared and they wanted us to feel included in a part of the group, even though we weren't the same as everybody else. And that really meant a lot.

And like, we were awkward and dressed different than everyone else. And I think that That was something that stood out to me. They really cared and they wanted us to feel included in a part of the group, even though we weren't the same as everybody else. And that really meant a lot.

I'm never going to stay at a hotel again.

I'm never going to stay at a hotel again.

Yeah. I think that because of the culture, um, and what we were taught, I think because of Bill Gothard's teachings, we thought that that was the best way to honor God. And that's really what we were kind of taught. And so I thought that like those convictions were my convictions too, because I thought that's what the Bible wanted me to do is like to wear skirts only, um,

Yeah. I think that because of the culture, um, and what we were taught, I think because of Bill Gothard's teachings, we thought that that was the best way to honor God. And that's really what we were kind of taught. And so I thought that like those convictions were my convictions too, because I thought that's what the Bible wanted me to do is like to wear skirts only, um,

that come below the knee to not wear sleeveless shirts um things like that right and to follow all these rules is how i'm pleasing to god so i didn't like i was also more of a people pleaser in that even in that time so i wasn't i was just trying to stay on everyone's good side and be, you know, just be pleasantly like agreeable to everything.

that come below the knee to not wear sleeveless shirts um things like that right and to follow all these rules is how i'm pleasing to god so i didn't like i was also more of a people pleaser in that even in that time so i wasn't i was just trying to stay on everyone's good side and be, you know, just be pleasantly like agreeable to everything.

And I think that there might've been some of the siblings who pushed against it. I didn't, we wouldn't really talk about that if there was like publicly. So I don't know. But for my, for me, I just remember one time where it was that swimsuit that I was going to have to wear. And all the, all these people were like going to the lake or whatever.

And I think that there might've been some of the siblings who pushed against it. I didn't, we wouldn't really talk about that if there was like publicly. So I don't know. But for my, for me, I just remember one time where it was that swimsuit that I was going to have to wear. And all the, all these people were like going to the lake or whatever.

My family was there visiting some friends out of state. And I just remember like saying, I'm not going to wear that. I'm too embarrassed. And I just did not go in the water of course. And I didn't know how to swim anyways. So I was also embarrassed about that. But I just remember not going in the water at all that day. Cause I was like too embarrassed about my swimsuit. So.

My family was there visiting some friends out of state. And I just remember like saying, I'm not going to wear that. I'm too embarrassed. And I just did not go in the water of course. And I didn't know how to swim anyways. So I was also embarrassed about that. But I just remember not going in the water at all that day. Cause I was like too embarrassed about my swimsuit. So.

Yeah. The one that goes like all the way down, you know, and then it's like the dress thing and it was, yeah. And those friends were not just like us either. So, you know, they were probably wearing shorts and a t-shirt or something and they water with us. But I just was like, I just better. I was like, I'm not doing this. And I felt so bad for having, for feeling like I didn't want to wear that.

Yeah. The one that goes like all the way down, you know, and then it's like the dress thing and it was, yeah. And those friends were not just like us either. So, you know, they were probably wearing shorts and a t-shirt or something and they water with us. But I just was like, I just better. I was like, I'm not doing this. And I felt so bad for having, for feeling like I didn't want to wear that.

I mean, I disobeyed them, but not like rebellion type things. Like I can't think of, I wasn't a rebellious child. So I wasn't going to push the boundaries. Like I said, I just want to keep everybody happy. And I think that they probably saw me as like one of the most compliant kids ever. And probably would have never expected me of all the kids to like, to change anything.

I mean, I disobeyed them, but not like rebellion type things. Like I can't think of, I wasn't a rebellious child. So I wasn't going to push the boundaries. Like I said, I just want to keep everybody happy. And I think that they probably saw me as like one of the most compliant kids ever. And probably would have never expected me of all the kids to like, to change anything.

Because if I saw that something was in the Bible, I was like, well, I want to obey God. So I'm going to do that. Um, but then once I saw like, okay, these teachings are not accurate and it's actually not what the Bible says. Then I knew before God, I wasn't sitting, I was doing what was right and I'm honoring God. So at some point I'm gonna have to step out and just live that out.

Because if I saw that something was in the Bible, I was like, well, I want to obey God. So I'm going to do that. Um, but then once I saw like, okay, these teachings are not accurate and it's actually not what the Bible says. Then I knew before God, I wasn't sitting, I was doing what was right and I'm honoring God. So at some point I'm gonna have to step out and just live that out.

even if people don't agree with me or they think now Ginger's kind of crazy, you know, for living by what I actually see as true.

even if people don't agree with me or they think now Ginger's kind of crazy, you know, for living by what I actually see as true.

I think that it was interesting. Like we talked to them about a couple of these issues, right? Because especially being in the public eye, I think there's more pressure.

I think that it was interesting. Like we talked to them about a couple of these issues, right? Because especially being in the public eye, I think there's more pressure.

Yeah. That's another pressure. And the things that people say. Yeah. are just not accurate. And as to why I do things that I do, it's not to spite anyone. I don't have ill will against even how we were raised and the things that we did. Yeah, there are some things that are harder to work through long-term because of it, but I'm not sitting over here like,

Yeah. That's another pressure. And the things that people say. Yeah. are just not accurate. And as to why I do things that I do, it's not to spite anyone. I don't have ill will against even how we were raised and the things that we did. Yeah, there are some things that are harder to work through long-term because of it, but I'm not sitting over here like,

oh man, now I hate that I was raised this way because I see how a lot of parents got into that. I see how they had these convictions because they thought it was the Bible. And they got wrapped up in a teacher that was teaching them things that they thought were gonna save their kids.

oh man, now I hate that I was raised this way because I see how a lot of parents got into that. I see how they had these convictions because they thought it was the Bible. And they got wrapped up in a teacher that was teaching them things that they thought were gonna save their kids.

and so i get it it's well-meaning and it seems so good on the outside yeah so like all of these outward things as they i started to see that they were not actually based in the bible at all but they were just a man's opinion then that started to change the way i viewed it and then it took me quite a few years to get to the place where i felt like okay

and so i get it it's well-meaning and it seems so good on the outside yeah so like all of these outward things as they i started to see that they were not actually based in the bible at all but they were just a man's opinion then that started to change the way i viewed it and then it took me quite a few years to get to the place where i felt like okay

now I'm so strong in what I believe that it's easier for me to talk about it. Cause I wouldn't even talk about it. Like I might've been wearing pants, but it was harder for me to like voice it because I was just afraid of like family and friends still thinking I'm crazy. because I left those teachings.

now I'm so strong in what I believe that it's easier for me to talk about it. Cause I wouldn't even talk about it. Like I might've been wearing pants, but it was harder for me to like voice it because I was just afraid of like family and friends still thinking I'm crazy. because I left those teachings.

And so, yeah, it wasn't the easiest thing for me to do to like step outside of all those teachings and like live it out. Cause I knew that I go from like being the easy compliant kid to being a difficult child in some people's eyes. So yeah, that was a challenge.

And so, yeah, it wasn't the easiest thing for me to do to like step outside of all those teachings and like live it out. Cause I knew that I go from like being the easy compliant kid to being a difficult child in some people's eyes. So yeah, that was a challenge.

Yeah, not being like sharp or like just, or like... saying it with a certain tone. Like, oh, you should know that already. Or like, whatever. Just making an offhanded remark.

Yeah, not being like sharp or like just, or like... saying it with a certain tone. Like, oh, you should know that already. Or like, whatever. Just making an offhanded remark.

That's a huge thing now that we've been working through.

That's a huge thing now that we've been working through.

get a call in your room why is there so much like noise coming from it sounds like someone's giving birth the thing is though like i i in hotels honestly like i'm always thinking of germs and i just like i will keep my shoes on and like have these things because i'm like who knows what took place in this room i don't want to think about it i cannot like i can't fully like relax and now knowing that really thinks like he really is

get a call in your room why is there so much like noise coming from it sounds like someone's giving birth the thing is though like i i in hotels honestly like i'm always thinking of germs and i just like i will keep my shoes on and like have these things because i'm like who knows what took place in this room i don't want to think about it i cannot like i can't fully like relax and now knowing that really thinks like he really is

And teaching them how to resolve conflict through that. But at the same time, there are also times where you need to step away and talk as a couple and not talk in front of them. So they see there's a stability and there's not like, they're not like, oh, why are mom and dad talking about this? You know, like, yeah, there are times where we will slip away.

And teaching them how to resolve conflict through that. But at the same time, there are also times where you need to step away and talk as a couple and not talk in front of them. So they see there's a stability and there's not like, they're not like, oh, why are mom and dad talking about this? You know, like, yeah, there are times where we will slip away.

And like, if something's really bothering one of us, we are going to talk it out. And we're not like...

And like, if something's really bothering one of us, we are going to talk it out. And we're not like...

hashing out all of the issues in front of them or big major things like decisions about every little thing in front of them because there is a time where you need to do that but on just the basic day in and day out stuff or if i'm frustrated um and i say something that's just not kind of like i'm sorry babe i shouldn't have said that you know and like the kids are there yeah and that way they can hear us apologize even if we said something that was harsh because it's like

hashing out all of the issues in front of them or big major things like decisions about every little thing in front of them because there is a time where you need to do that but on just the basic day in and day out stuff or if i'm frustrated um and i say something that's just not kind of like i'm sorry babe i shouldn't have said that you know and like the kids are there yeah and that way they can hear us apologize even if we said something that was harsh because it's like

You aren't perfect. And you want to see that when mom and dad sin against each other, we're going to apologize. And that's what we want them to be able to do.

You aren't perfect. And you want to see that when mom and dad sin against each other, we're going to apologize. And that's what we want them to be able to do.

There are times where I will yell out, stop, I had to do that just a couple days ago.

There are times where I will yell out, stop, I had to do that just a couple days ago.

A million times a day. At Jer's work, they get so comfortable and she was with grandma and then she saw me across the street and wanted to run. And I was like, stop. And she didn't hear me the first time. So I'm yelling and I'm like, here, all these people around watching me, but who cares? No, you're about to go in the street.

A million times a day. At Jer's work, they get so comfortable and she was with grandma and then she saw me across the street and wanted to run. And I was like, stop. And she didn't hear me the first time. So I'm yelling and I'm like, here, all these people around watching me, but who cares? No, you're about to go in the street.

And so like there, they need to be warned of the dangers that are around.

And so like there, they need to be warned of the dangers that are around.

that's not actually fulfilling for the bully or even your own kid will you stand up for your own kid there was a time we were at the playground you probably remember this it just came to mind but there was a kid who was just there hanging out I think his maybe grandparent was far away like sitting in this building not looking at him he was a little guy and he was just he was just like angry and like just being he was just like in a mood and you could tell like something was a little off

that's not actually fulfilling for the bully or even your own kid will you stand up for your own kid there was a time we were at the playground you probably remember this it just came to mind but there was a kid who was just there hanging out I think his maybe grandparent was far away like sitting in this building not looking at him he was a little guy and he was just he was just like angry and like just being he was just like in a mood and you could tell like something was a little off

So Jeremy just started like positively trying to reinforce any little thing that he would do good. He was kind of like, our kids were there. Right. And he was being super rough and like, but just angry. Like he was just angry. So Jeremy was like, okay, let's play this game. You know, like trying to like stand up because our kids were, they were going to get hurt. It was a very tall playground.

So Jeremy just started like positively trying to reinforce any little thing that he would do good. He was kind of like, our kids were there. Right. And he was being super rough and like, but just angry. Like he was just angry. So Jeremy was like, okay, let's play this game. You know, like trying to like stand up because our kids were, they were going to get hurt. It was a very tall playground.

It was like three feet in the air. I mean, three stories, you know, and I was like, somebody's going to get hurt. And, um, but Jeremy like was able to like diffuse the situation and stand up and talk to him. Like, you know, Hey, let's not, this is getting a little rough and no one was there to like stop him. Um,

It was like three feet in the air. I mean, three stories, you know, and I was like, somebody's going to get hurt. And, um, but Jeremy like was able to like diffuse the situation and stand up and talk to him. Like, you know, Hey, let's not, this is getting a little rough and no one was there to like stop him. Um,

And, um, but then he just started like, you know, talking to the kid and like, it was helpful, like diffuse the situation. But like in those settings, it can be so uncomfortable. Cause it's like, you don't know what to do, but you, would you rather be quiet and not protect your own child or, you know, just so this kid can do what he's doing? Or are you going to stand up and talk?

And, um, but then he just started like, you know, talking to the kid and like, it was helpful, like diffuse the situation. But like in those settings, it can be so uncomfortable. Cause it's like, you don't know what to do, but you, would you rather be quiet and not protect your own child or, you know, just so this kid can do what he's doing? Or are you going to stand up and talk?

Like there's a point where we just will be so consumed with other people think about us that we are not willing to speak up and say, no, that's not okay. Like we got to stop.

Like there's a point where we just will be so consumed with other people think about us that we are not willing to speak up and say, no, that's not okay. Like we got to stop.

Like kind of talk about the positive talk. I think that we're in a world where we've gone from an extreme of like, okay, we can just say whatever we want and like cut people down to the full positive talk to where it's like, you can go to every side of like, you're the best. You're okay. You're always doing well. Well, sometimes I'm not doing well. Like, yeah, you can do this on your own.

Like kind of talk about the positive talk. I think that we're in a world where we've gone from an extreme of like, okay, we can just say whatever we want and like cut people down to the full positive talk to where it's like, you can go to every side of like, you're the best. You're okay. You're always doing well. Well, sometimes I'm not doing well. Like, yeah, you can do this on your own.

You got this. Like, Um, and I think that that can also be damaging because then we can see like, Oh, I don't need anybody. I can do this by myself. I don't need community and I've got it all together. Well, sometimes I don't have it all together.

You got this. Like, Um, and I think that that can also be damaging because then we can see like, Oh, I don't need anybody. I can do this by myself. I don't need community and I've got it all together. Well, sometimes I don't have it all together.

And sometimes I need somebody to say, Hey, I think, you know, like you're being a little rough, like you're being a little harsh and I need to be able to receive that criticism and that critique because it's actually what is the most loving thing to tell me in that moment.

And sometimes I need somebody to say, Hey, I think, you know, like you're being a little rough, like you're being a little harsh and I need to be able to receive that criticism and that critique because it's actually what is the most loving thing to tell me in that moment.

And if you did that every single day, yeah, I'd be,

And if you did that every single day, yeah, I'd be,

beat down that's not always that's not healthy either but being able to be in a relationship where you can freely talk and there have been some times where you know i've gotten so frustrated with one of the kids and jeremy's like hey babe can you step away for a minute like and that whole switch off thing right like i need to hear that in the moment because i'm so i've been in this setting like and this kid's frustrated me for the past hour and it's just come to a head and i'm like

beat down that's not always that's not healthy either but being able to be in a relationship where you can freely talk and there have been some times where you know i've gotten so frustrated with one of the kids and jeremy's like hey babe can you step away for a minute like and that whole switch off thing right like i need to hear that in the moment because i'm so i've been in this setting like and this kid's frustrated me for the past hour and it's just come to a head and i'm like

will you just stop? You know? And he's like, Hey, let, let me, let's take a minute. Take a breath. I'm like, I can take over now. And like, just to like talk to me. And sometimes, you know, it can feel like, okay, when somebody has a critique of me or when they say something, then it's rejection and I'm rejected by you now. Oh, I'm so embarrassed. Cause I reacted that way.

will you just stop? You know? And he's like, Hey, let, let me, let's take a minute. Take a breath. I'm like, I can take over now. And like, just to like talk to me. And sometimes, you know, it can feel like, okay, when somebody has a critique of me or when they say something, then it's rejection and I'm rejected by you now. Oh, I'm so embarrassed. Cause I reacted that way.

Well, yeah, I should take it. Um, I should take responsibility for that action, but I should also be thankful that they said something, um, because it's not loving for you to just let me be like that, you know? And I think that that's something that we all deal with.

Well, yeah, I should take it. Um, I should take responsibility for that action, but I should also be thankful that they said something, um, because it's not loving for you to just let me be like that, you know? And I think that that's something that we all deal with.

And especially in relationships, like even with other friends, you know, I want them to be able to come to me if there's something that they see or an issue or even a concern they might have, you know, to be able to talk about it genuinely and me not to be defensive. Cause I think that's our first thing as people pleasers is like, well, I wasn't doing that. Or this was my motive.

And especially in relationships, like even with other friends, you know, I want them to be able to come to me if there's something that they see or an issue or even a concern they might have, you know, to be able to talk about it genuinely and me not to be defensive. Cause I think that's our first thing as people pleasers is like, well, I wasn't doing that. Or this was my motive.

Oh, yeah. We had a plan. It was so great. We were going to go to Burbank area and it was in the equestrian center, whatever. And we were going to go there and stay at this Airbnb. So we booked it online. This was our very first time ever going to an Airbnb.

Oh, yeah. We had a plan. It was so great. We were going to go to Burbank area and it was in the equestrian center, whatever. And we were going to go there and stay at this Airbnb. So we booked it online. This was our very first time ever going to an Airbnb.

Like just hear him out and then you can talk about it. And without being reactionary, like your, your identity doesn't depend on that situation, you know, just disconnect yourself from it. Listen, hear them out. And I think that's the way that you can build genuine friendship is when you're able to confront other people about things.

Like just hear him out and then you can talk about it. And without being reactionary, like your, your identity doesn't depend on that situation, you know, just disconnect yourself from it. Listen, hear them out. And I think that's the way that you can build genuine friendship is when you're able to confront other people about things.

Yeah, and I think that along those lines too, we realize like, okay, if we are getting our self-worth from what people are saying about us positively, the next second they can be saying a criticism. And like even the critics online, we all see it. Everyone sees it on social media, right? Like it doesn't matter what kind of following you have.

Yeah, and I think that along those lines too, we realize like, okay, if we are getting our self-worth from what people are saying about us positively, the next second they can be saying a criticism. And like even the critics online, we all see it. Everyone sees it on social media, right? Like it doesn't matter what kind of following you have.

and from the photos it was like a white picket fence the the house was like gorgeous so we were super excited as soon as we pulled up we were like wait this doesn't look like the picture but maybe it is like maybe it's something's different you know we're gonna go inside and see so literally in the front yard it was all dirt it was all like torn up it was in the pictures it was luscious green grass white picket fence flowers everything

and from the photos it was like a white picket fence the the house was like gorgeous so we were super excited as soon as we pulled up we were like wait this doesn't look like the picture but maybe it is like maybe it's something's different you know we're gonna go inside and see so literally in the front yard it was all dirt it was all like torn up it was in the pictures it was luscious green grass white picket fence flowers everything

You can have somebody who likes the photo, somebody who says, that's stupid, why would you do that? And if you're just allowing that to be your self-worth, like what somebody says about you, then that's wrong as well. Like, cause if they quickly build you up, they can tear you down the next second. So don't let your identity be wrapped up in what people are saying either.

You can have somebody who likes the photo, somebody who says, that's stupid, why would you do that? And if you're just allowing that to be your self-worth, like what somebody says about you, then that's wrong as well. Like, cause if they quickly build you up, they can tear you down the next second. So don't let your identity be wrapped up in what people are saying either.

I think that's where for me, it's been helpful to see like, okay, the answer to people pleasing is people pleasing, which is just so crazy, but you're doing it. Not out of a negative desperation. You set that aside. You stop thinking, what can I get out of you? Or are you popular or famous? That's why I want to be your friend. Well, that's going to suck. That's going to lead you to bad places.

I think that's where for me, it's been helpful to see like, okay, the answer to people pleasing is people pleasing, which is just so crazy, but you're doing it. Not out of a negative desperation. You set that aside. You stop thinking, what can I get out of you? Or are you popular or famous? That's why I want to be your friend. Well, that's going to suck. That's going to lead you to bad places.

So then you start asking, how can I serve you? How can I look into this relationship? And not seeking to get anything out of it because it's so easy. Naturally, we think like, what can I get from you? And I think I went into so many relationships like that and I left disappointed because because I was like, this stinks.

So then you start asking, how can I serve you? How can I look into this relationship? And not seeking to get anything out of it because it's so easy. Naturally, we think like, what can I get from you? And I think I went into so many relationships like that and I left disappointed because because I was like, this stinks.

Like I can never get satisfied in this relationship because I'm just like afraid of what you think of me trying to figure out what I can get out of you. And that's just not a good way to live.

Like I can never get satisfied in this relationship because I'm just like afraid of what you think of me trying to figure out what I can get out of you. And that's just not a good way to live.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because it just, it was like we were thinking, okay, what is a good title? You know, you always run those things like all around, like talk to the publishers and all of that. And like, wouldn't People Pleaser be a great name? But then it's like, no, that's not going to be possible. But it is interesting because so many people struggle with it. And that's something that

Because it just, it was like we were thinking, okay, what is a good title? You know, you always run those things like all around, like talk to the publishers and all of that. And like, wouldn't People Pleaser be a great name? But then it's like, no, that's not going to be possible. But it is interesting because so many people struggle with it. And that's something that

You didn't even have a coat, because they said the host was gonna meet you there or something. So the host, we knocked on the door, and the host opened the door, and you've gotta tell them what happened.

You didn't even have a coat, because they said the host was gonna meet you there or something. So the host, we knocked on the door, and the host opened the door, and you've gotta tell them what happened.

um i was just thinking like if it hasn't been spoken to that many times and it's like the title itself is available that's just insane because everybody understands like whether you are a people pleaser or you know somebody like everybody knows someone who is and so um yeah and i just thought like even me writing the book you know it's interesting because i i

um i was just thinking like if it hasn't been spoken to that many times and it's like the title itself is available that's just insane because everybody understands like whether you are a people pleaser or you know somebody like everybody knows someone who is and so um yeah and i just thought like even me writing the book you know it's interesting because i i

Like every day things will come up where you will struggle with something people pleasing related. And even though now I'm so much further along, like you said, that freedom that you feel. Like when you have started to realize it in yourself, that's the first step of like realizing, wait, I am a people pleaser. So I want to rethink how I'm thinking every single day, every event that comes up.

Like every day things will come up where you will struggle with something people pleasing related. And even though now I'm so much further along, like you said, that freedom that you feel. Like when you have started to realize it in yourself, that's the first step of like realizing, wait, I am a people pleaser. So I want to rethink how I'm thinking every single day, every event that comes up.

um stop and think like okay wait i want to retrain my thoughts to not think that way because it's not healthy um and when you get that freedom from people pleasing then you can see like okay now i want other people to experience that too because it's so miserable to live in a place where you're just constantly consumed by like what do they think about me am i wearing the right clothes

um stop and think like okay wait i want to retrain my thoughts to not think that way because it's not healthy um and when you get that freedom from people pleasing then you can see like okay now i want other people to experience that too because it's so miserable to live in a place where you're just constantly consumed by like what do they think about me am i wearing the right clothes

Um, all the things that come up in your mind every day. And I think that that was something I thought, I don't feel like the best person to speak to this because I am a people pleaser, but at the same time, I just want to be raw and real about where I've been and the things I'm experiencing and hopefully it will help someone.

Um, all the things that come up in your mind every day. And I think that that was something I thought, I don't feel like the best person to speak to this because I am a people pleaser, but at the same time, I just want to be raw and real about where I've been and the things I'm experiencing and hopefully it will help someone.

So we go back to our... Oh, you figured it out really quick.

So we go back to our... Oh, you figured it out really quick.

I feel pretty good. I feel pretty good.

I feel pretty good. I feel pretty good.

This is going to go terrible.

This is going to go terrible.

But wait, does Jeremy get to answer? Because then we'll see how popular they actually are.

But wait, does Jeremy get to answer? Because then we'll see how popular they actually are.

Then we'll see if they're actually that well known because he would probably know. Okay. Okay.

Then we'll see if they're actually that well known because he would probably know. Okay. Okay.

Oh, and there wasn't even like a full room. So like this is part of it.

Oh, and there wasn't even like a full room. So like this is part of it.

there when you open the door to the the room we were supposed to stay in on the back side are double french doors that don't lock and there's a sheet hanging up and that's your headboard shut up you're gonna get murdered that is your headboard yes oh it gets worse we we were trying to figure out like okay what the heck is happening right now we don't understand we just don't get it so then she leads us out of our room down the hallway to the bathroom and she's like when you go to the

there when you open the door to the the room we were supposed to stay in on the back side are double french doors that don't lock and there's a sheet hanging up and that's your headboard shut up you're gonna get murdered that is your headboard yes oh it gets worse we we were trying to figure out like okay what the heck is happening right now we don't understand we just don't get it so then she leads us out of our room down the hallway to the bathroom and she's like when you go to the

He's giving so many hints. Is this like, hold on.

He's giving so many hints. Is this like, hold on.

Is he like wearing a mask?

Is he like wearing a mask?

It's like a circle mask and he wears it.

It's like a circle mask and he wears it.

I hate movies like that. A fight in the sky.

I hate movies like that. A fight in the sky.

I haven't watched Star Wars. Okay. Because I was like, I didn't want to watch Star Wars.

I haven't watched Star Wars. Okay. Because I was like, I didn't want to watch Star Wars.

Yes.

Yes.

I can't even pull it up.

I can't even pull it up.

If you list names of people, I'm never going to. Okay, not that.

If you list names of people, I'm never going to. Okay, not that.

Yes.

Yes.

Wow. That sounds like a great movie.

Wow. That sounds like a great movie.

Shut up. And she shows us.

Shut up. And she shows us.

No, we were at Christmas parades and the kids kept pointing out the Grinch. But I was like, see, I don't even know because I've watched the Grinch once. Like, a couple years ago.

No, we were at Christmas parades and the kids kept pointing out the Grinch. But I was like, see, I don't even know because I've watched the Grinch once. Like, a couple years ago.

And she's like, and it doesn't lock either. None of the doors locked. But she was like, okay, look out. She said, and out there, don't mind. No, no, no.

And she's like, and it doesn't lock either. None of the doors locked. But she was like, okay, look out. She said, and out there, don't mind. No, no, no.

All over it. You know, it's great. It's so good.

All over it. You know, it's great. It's so good.

It is such a good show.

It is such a good show.

It's amazing.

It's amazing.

Yeah. That and Gilmore Girls. I'm like all about Gilmore Girls. So I just like watching through it, you know, because I never watched through any of these. So I'm just like getting started.

Yeah. That and Gilmore Girls. I'm like all about Gilmore Girls. So I just like watching through it, you know, because I never watched through any of these. So I'm just like getting started.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Don't mind her. She's just out there. She's just trimming roses. And there were beautiful flowers in the backyard. And she's out there, this older lady, just methodically trimming roses with her little scissors. But she wants you to leave the window open, right? So we're like, this is weird. Then we come out and she leads us to the kitchen, which was a gorgeous kitchen.

Don't mind her. She's just out there. She's just trimming roses. And there were beautiful flowers in the backyard. And she's out there, this older lady, just methodically trimming roses with her little scissors. But she wants you to leave the window open, right? So we're like, this is weird. Then we come out and she leads us to the kitchen, which was a gorgeous kitchen.

Well, she opens the fridge and starts saying, you can eat that. You can't eat that. Don't touch this. You can have this shelf. And we were looking at each other like, what did we get ourselves into? Because we were supposed to be staying for like four nights or something. And then in the living room... There was a guy laying on the couch.

Well, she opens the fridge and starts saying, you can eat that. You can't eat that. Don't touch this. You can have this shelf. And we were looking at each other like, what did we get ourselves into? Because we were supposed to be staying for like four nights or something. And then in the living room... There was a guy laying on the couch.

He had headphones on. And he's literally laying on the couch, sprawled out. And we realized we had to get out of there.

He had headphones on. And he's literally laying on the couch, sprawled out. And we realized we had to get out of there.

right no oh no okay i not but that's the point that's why you told us during your book is it so this is it as as we were trying to figure out what to do we were looking at each other and we were just like this really sucks so we told her we're like well we're gonna be back we left like something that was not expensive like a tiny little bag there in the room to make it look like we were coming back but we left went to chipotle and just sat there like oh

right no oh no okay i not but that's the point that's why you told us during your book is it so this is it as as we were trying to figure out what to do we were looking at each other and we were just like this really sucks so we told her we're like well we're gonna be back we left like something that was not expensive like a tiny little bag there in the room to make it look like we were coming back but we left went to chipotle and just sat there like oh

What are we going to do? And we weren't well off. We didn't have a lot to just like, oh, screw this. We're going to leave. We're going. We couldn't do that. And so we were trying to figure out if we have this deposit in there, we want to make sure we can get it back.

What are we going to do? And we weren't well off. We didn't have a lot to just like, oh, screw this. We're going to leave. We're going. We couldn't do that. And so we were trying to figure out if we have this deposit in there, we want to make sure we can get it back.

Or we don't know what to do. But we were not going to stay there.

Or we don't know what to do. But we were not going to stay there.

We were going to do whatever we had to get out of there. Yeah. It was a hard decision to make because as a people pleaser, you just feel bad because she also was like, she was there talking to us. It wasn't like, you know, it's her house. So we talked about it and we came up with a plan that we were going to go back and tell her, Hey, this is not what we expected.

We were going to do whatever we had to get out of there. Yeah. It was a hard decision to make because as a people pleaser, you just feel bad because she also was like, she was there talking to us. It wasn't like, you know, it's her house. So we talked about it and we came up with a plan that we were going to go back and tell her, Hey, this is not what we expected.

No, we're pregnant. Oh, really?

No, we're pregnant. Oh, really?

We thought we had the entire house is our first time using Airbnb. And so that's what we did. And whenever we told her that, then she was like, well, you should have read the description. Maybe it was, you know, I'm like, it was in the description or something.

We thought we had the entire house is our first time using Airbnb. And so that's what we did. And whenever we told her that, then she was like, well, you should have read the description. Maybe it was, you know, I'm like, it was in the description or something.

I don't know if it was or not, but they didn't say a guy was going to be laying on the couch and you could lock the door and there's Rose in the backyard, you know? So. we, we basically were just like, okay, like I don't, I don't know what to do. And we said, well, we're just so sorry, but, um, we just, we can't stay. Cause this is like basically like a second honeymoon for us.

I don't know if it was or not, but they didn't say a guy was going to be laying on the couch and you could lock the door and there's Rose in the backyard, you know? So. we, we basically were just like, okay, like I don't, I don't know what to do. And we said, well, we're just so sorry, but, um, we just, we can't stay. Cause this is like basically like a second honeymoon for us.

We were newly married. We just wanted our own space. And she's like, I understand, but, um, you should have read the description. She's like, she was very kind though. She did give us some of our deposit back, which was a blessing, but we didn't get it all back. Right. So we were like,

We were newly married. We just wanted our own space. And she's like, I understand, but, um, you should have read the description. She's like, she was very kind though. She did give us some of our deposit back, which was a blessing, but we didn't get it all back. Right. So we were like,

anyhow and then she proceeds to she was like well if you're not staying here where are you staying and I was literally looking at hotels at the time she grabbed my phone out of my hand she grabs your phone grab my phone out of my hand that's creepy and she starts looking through oh nope that's a bad area this is a bad area okay you need to go here yeah

anyhow and then she proceeds to she was like well if you're not staying here where are you staying and I was literally looking at hotels at the time she grabbed my phone out of my hand she grabs your phone grab my phone out of my hand that's creepy and she starts looking through oh nope that's a bad area this is a bad area okay you need to go here yeah

Because it was like, what's happening?

Because it was like, what's happening?

It was insane. So we made it out. And I think in that, though, I don't know. I always would feel so bad to say no to somebody. To tell them, okay, I'm not going to be able to...

It was insane. So we made it out. And I think in that, though, I don't know. I always would feel so bad to say no to somebody. To tell them, okay, I'm not going to be able to...

you know stay here or whatever it is like if it's a sketchy doctor's office and they're that also happened to me oh yeah about to draw blood and it was like hot in there and it was like in a sketchville and you're just like why are we here yeah but they're like why are you leaving and i was like okay we'll wait for the doctor jeremy's like get out we're gonna like we can't we can't

you know stay here or whatever it is like if it's a sketchy doctor's office and they're that also happened to me oh yeah about to draw blood and it was like hot in there and it was like in a sketchville and you're just like why are we here yeah but they're like why are you leaving and i was like okay we'll wait for the doctor jeremy's like get out we're gonna like we can't we can't

stay, you know? So those types of things, I'm always like trying to be accommodating, trying to make everybody happy. And I realized at the end of the day, it's not worth it. You can't, you can't just continue to, um, accommodate everyone, even at, you know, the safety of your, your own lives. Right. Like it's just not good.

stay, you know? So those types of things, I'm always like trying to be accommodating, trying to make everybody happy. And I realized at the end of the day, it's not worth it. You can't, you can't just continue to, um, accommodate everyone, even at, you know, the safety of your, your own lives. Right. Like it's just not good.

I think growing up in the setting that we had talked about last time, just of the teachings of Bill Gothard, a lot of that was like, okay, we are supposed to be peacemakers, especially as women. We're supposed to keep our husbands happy, and so just doing whatever they want us to do and say...

I think growing up in the setting that we had talked about last time, just of the teachings of Bill Gothard, a lot of that was like, okay, we are supposed to be peacemakers, especially as women. We're supposed to keep our husbands happy, and so just doing whatever they want us to do and say...

A lot of those things were kind of playing into my people pleasing already and giving me even a deeper foundation of like, okay, this is how I need to please everyone around me. And so being, you know, agreeable, being helpful in every way and not thinking twice about what I actually think. And so even when we were first married, I noticed it in a lot of ways because it's

A lot of those things were kind of playing into my people pleasing already and giving me even a deeper foundation of like, okay, this is how I need to please everyone around me. And so being, you know, agreeable, being helpful in every way and not thinking twice about what I actually think. And so even when we were first married, I noticed it in a lot of ways because it's

Growing up in the teachings of Bill Gothard, we are supposed to keep our husbands happy and just doing whatever they want us to do. It was terrifying for me to be able to speak up against that.

Jeremy would ask me like, Hey, where do you want to go to dinner? Or do you want, what do you want for lunch? And I would just be like, whatever you want, babe. Cause I was just trying to keep them happy. And, um, and that was something that I saw just throughout my growing up years, but it wasn't until I went to write Becoming Free Indeed that that I realized how much of a people pleaser I was.

I do.

And that started showing up everywhere because in that book, I was going to be exposing this horrible teaching that was leading us to a very bad place. And me, my friends, loved ones, and it was terrifying for me to be able to speak up against that because I knew it was gonna ruffle people's feathers. I knew that it was not gonna be the easiest thing for everyone to hear.

And that was the thing that really really made me see like, wow, I am so consumed with what they think about me that I'm not even willing to speak up for those who are in, who are still in that place. And that was the moment that I think it kind of dawned on me. It was like a light bulb moment because I felt like for so many years, I was like, I could never do that.

We're a team and this is like we're in this together.

I could never speak up against this teaching because I it's just too hard as a people pleaser. Like it's just too hard for me. And I kept thinking, Oh, you know, I know this friend who could do it because they're really bold, but that's never going to be me.

But I'm definitely the one who's pregnant.

But then when no one else spoke up about it, then I realized I have to, like, it came to the point where I knew that that was something I had to do. And so I think that that moment really was transformative for me because no longer was I able to just live in that comfort and of keeping everybody happy with me.

I knew, okay, the second this is released, it can cause issues and I have to be okay with that.

I was a little like, okay, I was so comfortable with where we were with our girls. And I was starting to like, really feel like we've hit a rhythm. We're in a good place. And so I wasn't wanting to like, just jump into having a third kid immediately. So that's why there's like a four year age gap now.

Oh, yeah, totally. So it was like my now one of my best friends. This is like when I was first getting to know her. Right. So like she asked if she could stop by my house and it was like last minute. So she comes in and. I was standing there talking to her. I was already thinking in my mind, like, okay, she asked me to come over and I'm going to say yes, but my house is not that clean.

And that's always the first thing that comes to mind as a mom, like your house will be spotless. It will look so good. And no one comes over for two days. And then the second that somebody wants to come last minute, it's a wreck, right? That's how it always happens. And they, it can look like, man, I never cleaned my house, but you just wouldn't know what a clean freak I actually am.

So you just have to come on the right day. Um, well, my friend comes over and she's chatting with me and I was like, this is so nice. I'm so glad I had her come over. And then I turn around and her little baby is on the floor and she's getting under the table and eating old dried Cheerios that may have been from the day before. And I was just like, oh. So I felt so bad.

And I quickly apologized to mom. I was like, I'm so sorry. My floors are so dirty. So when she was there, I just went and got a broom and started trying to pry them off with the dustpan. I was just like, you know, they get stuck. I was scraping off these old Cheerios off the floor. And she's like, it's fine, Ginger. Don't worry about it. We're just happy to be here. And she was so chill.

And we had the best conversations that day. And the sweetest time. And that actually... it actually transformed my mind and my mindset and thinking because I thought, okay, I could have like traded down. I could have just said like, okay, my house is not clean. It's not perfectly clean. And I just don't want you to see that I don't have everything together.

But in that time, the way that she responded to kind of like disarmed me. And I was like, okay, she's not like judging me for this. She might later, but no, she's not judging me in the moment. And she was being a true friend.

And after that, it was actually really cool. Cause like the closer friend friendship would be, you know, started to form and this friendship really took off. And now she's the one who comes to my house. Like if I have something that a project, then she'll come to my house and be like, okay, I have an hour, let's tackle it. And then I'll go to her house.

So we switch off all the time on projects that we need to have done, or like she needs help cleaning your house. So I'll pop over for an hour with, you know, Evie and it's great. Like, It's actually built more of like a genuine friendship where we don't feel like we have to have everything all together. We can look a mess. Our house can be a mess. Our kids cannot be have it all together.

But we don't care because that's what genuine friendship is, is in that place of us not just trying to keep a front of who we want people to think that we are. But they're able to actually come into our life and see, okay, they don't have it all together. I don't either. We don't have to keep up this front. And that's how I've now had the best friendship with my friend.

It's going to be four years.

She just turned four, which is wild.

That was really, really sweet. That is so good. Yeah. Cause we do initially, but yeah, we do initially just think like, Oh, they're going to think so much less of us if we don't have everything together. And if we don't keep up this like facade of who we think we're supposed to be, And I think in that time we do lose ourselves. And like you were even saying, some of it can be a survival thing.

We're just not going to talk about that.

Like it really can be in, in how we process and we can think, okay, like, you know, there are times where maybe you have to keep somebody happy with you because they're not a healthy person to be around. And so you just have, you feel like you have to like keep them happy until you can get out of that situation. And like that can be another coping mechanism that we try to use.

Um, but it also is like there, there are different sides to it, but when it comes to genuine friendship, you're not able to build that unless you let people into the messy sides of your life as well as the good sides. And so that's something that it's so hard for all of us to do every single day.

My thought process was constantly about food. I had friends who naturally were like super skinny. And I would look at these girls and I kept thinking, well, I'm just not pretty enough.

For sure. Yes. A hundred percent. I think for me in particular, like that is definitely something I was so insecure for so many years, which led me to some bad places because even with the way that I was viewing eating and things like that, I struggled with like just not eating enough. And it was, it was because I thought I was too fat and I wasn't.

And it was a thought process of like wanting to belong and wanting to have those friendships that were genuine. And, At some point we realized, okay, well, we were designed for community. That's a good thing. We weren't designed to live on an island by ourselves. We're supposed to be in community with other people. But when sin entered the world, that was broken. And so now...

community can be flawed. We, people will let us down. And so we're afraid of that. We're afraid of their rejection. We fear that if we show them, you know, the side of me struggling, or maybe I don't look as pretty as I want to be, then I'm not going to be accepted.

Um, or I have to have designer clothes to like, to have people notice me and things like that, where we can fall into these tendencies of, um, wanting so desperately to be liked by people and That that desperation leads us to bad places. And it can be where we feel like, okay, now I'm so consumed with myself.

I'm so consumed with what everybody around me thinks that ultimately all I care about is myself. I don't even care about you as my friend because I'm thinking, what can I get out of you? What can I take from you instead of what can I give to you? And so I think that that is something that I struggle with for so many years, just wanting to be liked.

And growing up in the setting that I was in, you know, it didn't feel easy to be liked in that because you were awkward. you know, you come from a large family, who else does? Like I had a lot of people around me who did, but then I'm wearing skirts when I play sports in the community. It just feels weird, right?

There are a lot of things that were just, you're trying to fit in, you're trying to figure out who you are. And I think a lot of that people pleasing the tendencies of that, um, were even stronger maybe because I was, I was already awkward and not fitting in.

Yeah. I think as I was in the ages of 13, 14, 15... I just saw like, okay, I had friends who naturally were like super skinny and I would look at these girls and think, okay, well I would compare myself to them. And I was actually pretty skinny at that point. Like I was, I didn't have, I wouldn't gain weight easily, but I thought I might.

And it was that fear of just like, I wasn't as skinny as them, but I was still like healthy, you know? And I think that just the comparison that started to happen in my mind, I didn't, think properly about myself, I kept thinking, well, I'm just not pretty enough or I'm not skinny enough. So I would just try to wake up later in the day and try to avoid meals and things like that.

And I felt miserable because I was just thinking like, okay, I don't want to, I don't want to eat. Or I would think if I went to somebody else's house that I'd be like, well, what are we going to eat? Am I going to have something that's going to actually not make me fat? Or is this like, you know, that was my thought process was constantly about food.

My entire, um, every day would just be like, I would be consumed with that thought. And, um,

I talked to my mom because she was very open, like even, you know, throughout the years and like TV show and all that, she struggled with bulimia for years and which is not something I struggled with, but, um, she, when she was, you know, a teen, that was something she, she really struggled with like on the cheerleading team.

And, um, so I knew that and I was able to go talk to her after, I don't know how many months of like wrestling with this. Um, And when I talked to her, then she was really sweet in the way she handled it was so helpful because she did not go from one extreme to the other where she was just telling me like, okay, now you need to eat everything in sight.

Like she didn't force me to eat things that were unhealthy. Cause like, I mean, We were in Arkansas. There were casseroles. You could easily gain 50 pounds in a meal if you wanted to. And it was something that she just told me. She's like, well, Ginger, she's like, I really appreciate you telling me that. But like she came up with a plan. Just text me what you eat every day.

And I'd love to be accountable, too. And I'll text you what I eat. And it was so sweet because in that time I was struggling so much and I was so embarrassed by like how we're struggling and I didn't want to open up to her, but I knew I could cause she's like the sweetest person in the whole world. So when I told her, she was like, yeah, and I can like, I want to try to eat healthier.

This pregnancy has been the same as the other ones were. And I am now far enough along to where I'm not nauseous. Very thankful. And yeah, 25 weeks.

So maybe we can eat healthy together. And she didn't force me to like eat unhealthy stuff, but she was like, I want to make sure you're getting enough protein and if you know, fiber, let's like do this.

And so it was that most helpful thing for me because then I started to develop a healthy relationship with food and it was something that I realized, okay, I, yeah, you don't have to like, when you struggled with that, thank you, love. She was like,

she was telling me like even though you struggle with this it doesn't mean that you have to i'm not going to force you to like eat three cheeseburgers because you don't need to do that but like just eat what's what what you need to eat and that's enough and it was it was helpful for me to process like and she kept telling me like you're beautiful just the way god made you and he designed you just how he wanted you to be so

Um, all of those things. And even like exercise, right? Like I like to work out. And so that's not a bad thing, but like, what is the driving motivation? Is it to be pleased, like to have the approval of other people around me? Um, or is it just to be healthy and to like eat healthy? workout, all the things that are actually fun and enjoyable about it.

But that gave me a healthy perspective on food. And then moving forward, I was like, okay, I want to make sure that I'm eating the right amounts for my body, what is required. And then I started to feel better, more energy, more like just enjoying life again, you know, because I wasn't thinking about food.

And then when I go to somebody's house and maybe they had something I typically wouldn't eat or, you it was super greasy or unhealthy, I'd be like, okay, I'm going to eat this and it doesn't matter. Like I'm going to try not to think about it. And some days you can feel icky and it's not always easy. But then I think just after years of that, I have not struggled with that as much.

As I did before, like I just for years have had so much freedom in that and I'm really thankful for it. I think a lot of it really does go back to how my mom handled the situation and helped walk me through it because she had been in a similar place.

That's so far. That really is. It is. Yeah. It's flown by in a sense. The beginning never flies by. You always feel like rubbish. But getting past that and then being now on a stage where I just feel like,

It was perfect. And I think like it'll be different for each person if that's something they struggle with. Some people may need more in-depth help. But it was enough for me to know that like she was she kept telling me she always would tell me anything I was struggling with. She's like, you're going to be OK. And those words coming from your mom just mean the world. Right.

Because like you feel like. as a teenager, especially being able to like talk to her about those things, it's hard to open up. But then at the same time, she would always make me feel like it wasn't, it wasn't so out of place, right? Like that reaction, she would never react. And that was something that was super comforting. Cause I knew I wasn't crazy. I wasn't like going insane. Like I was okay.

We're going to get through this together. And I did.

She's, she's amazing. I love her so much. She's like, yeah, she's a role model. Has she gotten to read your book? So I, I have not sent her copy cause I, we just, that is the first copy I've seen. So as soon as it comes out, I was, but I talked to her about it already a lot. Yeah.

We were chatting about it and I was just thanking her for how she helped me so much to like break free from a lot of that people pleasing. So that's so sweet. And the book is dedicated to her. I,

she really is the sweetest person i wish you could meet her can you my mom you will always be my hero and best friend i love you and i'm extra emotional in pregnancy so i'm going to be crying through this whole thing i felt so i was like gosh dang it did i like make you cry if i ask you that question no but she did you show her this so i haven't yet oh

I haven't yet, but I'm looking forward to getting her cause I don't have a copy yet. So I'm just going to give it to her. Is she emotional? She is, but she's also so she's, she's emotional, but she's also steady.

I think things change whenever you are not in the same state. I'm not able... Sadly, being far from family, you have to make more of a point to call family members. And since I have so many... I try to keep in contact with my mom and my sisters as much as I can. And so I will FaceTime them a lot. We were just talking a couple days ago. And my mom is just such a rock.

And I feel like Jeremy has really taken on just so much of that too. The encouragement. Because we're a team. And he is just like... always helping me walk through those things or times where people pleasing will just, it bubbles up and there's so much to deal with.

And he is a constant reminder, um, just like reminding me of the things that I need to be reminded of, you know, of who I am in, um, and just like, even in pregnancy, right? Like those things come up where you feel like, oh man, my body's changing. It's going to be so long before I feel like I'm actually strong again or, um,

I feel like you can actually like function again and do all the things I want to do. But like, he's constantly telling me like, no, I love this. Like pregnancy is so beautiful. And just remember that, like remember the stage you're in to enjoy it and not to like let it slip by. And all of those things that I need to be reminded of. He's so good.

I'm going to buy, I'm going to totally buy the jeans that you were telling me about because I'm like, I can't find them. I've never tried them personally, but I know that Abercrombie has maternity ones. That's the thing. I've not, I've not shopped on there, but I need, I need jeans because I'm wearing leggings today because I just don't have any that fit.

Yeah. I know. It happens. I couldn't wear big dresses. I always gained so much weight in pregnancy. Yes, totally. I know. Dresses are not always as flattering in pregnancy either. Yeah. I'm just like, nah. Nah.

I do feel bad about that because it's something that having that many siblings, it makes you feel more guilty because we live away. A couple of my siblings do now that are married, but that's only recent, like in the past year. And so most of them live near each other. So they're constantly around each Everyone, all the nieces and nephews were at like 35 or six. I don't even remember.

35 grandkids. Yeah. There are so many. And so, and they're just getting started. It's going to be so much more. It's probably going to be a hundred and we're going to have to have name tags. Like, I'm not kidding. Like, I'm not kidding. It's wild. So with all that, there's literally no way, no way that you could call every single sibling all the time. Right.

We're not having 19, so I don't know.

It's very possible. Well, okay, get this, get this. So one of my brothers, he is a twin. Okay. And he is, he and his wife have two kids under the age of two and they're pregnant with twins.

Jed and Katie. They're pregnant with twins. Wait, they have two kids under the age of two and they're pregnant with twins? Yes, and their twins are going to be born before their oldest turns three. So they're going to have four under the age of two. That, oh my gosh. So it's possible. Like I said, it's possible.

They do.

I think if you have twins or triplets, you need to move near family.

So, yeah, it could happen. But the other day, Felicity, this is... Okay. This is a confession. This is a confession. So Felicity, she's my six year old and she, um, we were talking about, I was talking about one of my siblings or something. And then she's like, wait, you have a sibling with that name. It just happens. She, that's her aunt or uncle.

Yeah, it's just crazy though. Nothing's changed there because I'm like, I know I can't, not taking like a scalding bath, but like a shower.

You know, it's like, because there's so many, she just, she knows them. She's met all of them, hangs out with them. But it's like, there are the younger ones, um, she will know some of them, but then like their names, it's hard to keep up with all the names.

And since we don't see them all the time, she knows a lot of the nieces and nephews even better, maybe than all of the aunts and uncles who can't travel all the time by themselves. So that's the thing. My siblings, my youngest sibling is 15 now. She just turned 15 yesterday and it's like crazy, you know, but they can't travel by themselves.

And so like, if they're not all out to visit all the time, it's easy to forget.

Like she can't remember the name Johanna. And she's like, wait, what? That's like one of your siblings? But it's just because there are so many. Yeah. And that happens.

No, he does not.

Go for it. We've done this one, well, it was a couple years ago, so maybe you do now. Go.

As long as it's on my back, I'm good. And I just cannot change the temp because then I'm freezing. Yes, it's really cold otherwise.

In order.

Nope. Ginger. Ginger.

My birth plan is literally to go in and have the baby. I just don't like to plan a lot of things.

Probably, yes.

I try. So we have a group message, a family group message, and they will always say. So I think today is Austin's birthday.

And yesterday was Josie's birthday. So, yeah, it's great.

Okay, we are back. So in your book, you talked about how when Jeremy asked you out for the very first time...

What was that like? Yeah, it was interesting, but I think it was so normal for me. It was super normal because that's all that I grew up doing. But yeah, I don't know. I never knew that they would have you repeat stuff like that. They would try not to for special things like that.

I hate it when it's cold. When I say cold, I mean like Jeremy would feel like he was boiling in my cold water. So I can't take a bath because I know I will want it boiling. And so I just, I'm like showers are the way to go. I was very careful.

They would have one shot where it's very easy for you to just get it done, one and done, because they do want to get your genuine reaction. Yeah. But I think that day, there was like... We had to go out on the front porch. So there was like... You had to come down the stairs. Okay, now go back up. Now come back down. Now come out the door. Now go back in.

Because they didn't have enough crews that day, probably. So it may have been like one crew instead of the typical where they have two.

Yeah, way in advance.

Yeah.

Like, okay, because you have... And they will have some things you have to talk about. Like if you... They'll give you a couple talking points. So like he would say whatever he wants, but then he has to make sure... And usually at that point, the producer would step in and say, Hey, like you didn't cover this. Um, so can you just chat for two minutes about it?

Because otherwise, the challenge is people are missing major parts of the story that those who have been watching forever get. So they understand the background and where Jeremy came from, but sometimes they need you to rehash things so many times for those who weren't there.

Like we understand what needs to happen to get there.

But half the time I'm just like, no.

Or you have to talk about something you've talked about so many times as a topic.

So that was after we were married. That's when you felt frustrated.

You know, Jeremy, what are you planning?

For instance, like when the weddings, all my siblings got married, like one year we had three weddings in a year. And so every time a wedding would happen, we knew what we were going to be asked. Okay, tell us about how you first met. Take us back to your wedding day. Take us back to your first kiss. And we would always have to re-answer questions that we had just answered a couple months before.

So those types of things, we would be like, uh, like, okay, we talked about this and everybody's going to have, they're going to have it memorized. The answer, because we've had to talk about it so many times recently. So things like that, which it's not the end of the world. It was just like, it was just like a little reality TV.

I know what they're going to think. That's probably why sometimes I won't want to like go that route of like making everything so perfect on the blog because it was years of that. So in my head, I feel like I could produce a show.

I, I've always said, I told Jeremy, I was like, if I ever went to like work at a normal job, then I would, I would want to be a PA in LA to be a production assistant. So it's great because I don't know. I feel like it just seems so fun.

holding the boom so no the pas don't even do that oh yeah they only they'll hold the the like reflectors and stuff for the crew but they get the coffee they get the food and they make sure that they have enough c47s you know or whatever they're called so um just the little clothespins yep

yeah i'm hopeful i think so i think i definitely think that the more time that goes on with that and then also like even with social media right like that's the next thing it's it's reality tv basically for a ton of people because they're putting everything on social media and so i think that the way that people view it or maybe like for us like protecting our kids and you all as well like

There are certain things that each family will realize, like, OK, maybe we're not going to go that far or maybe we're going to have certain parameters here. And I think that you'll start to see more of that the older that kids get who grew up in it.

I growing up on TV from the age of 10 until 27, um, it was something that it was just my life. And so looking at that, I think through the hard times, that's when I really started to think like, okay, do I want my kids to have this life? Do I want them to be front and center in everything that we do? And both of us felt like, Like we didn't want that for our kids. We wanted to give them privacy.

Like for real though, so we, whenever we were first talking about like Felicity's birth, Um, I just like a lot of my sisters had complications with theirs and they were like all trying to do home births or like have midwife or be at a birth center. And I just, they would get transported. And I was like, I'm not doing that. And Jeremy for sure was like, no way.

And then if they choose to be in the public eye later, that's all cool. Like we were all for whatever they want to do, but for us not to make that the driving force of what we do, because I think that whenever everything's going great, it can seem fine. But then whenever you have challenges and trials and like your kids are in the middle of it, it just makes it all harder.

And also for the privacy, we wanted to like not show their faces. That way they're not recognizable and they can have that just protection. And also like we don't highlight them a lot in like what we talk about. We'll talk about them here and there publicly, but we aren't like. we don't talk about every little thing that they're doing.

And I think some of that is just because we want to make sure that they're able to just have their childhood. However, you know, just live it out, live out their childhood, enjoy it. And, and not, we're not using that as an opportunity for us to gain anything from. Um, and it was just something that we were convicted of and other people who do things differently. Um,

I, I see why they do it and I don't have a problem with that. It's just us personally. I think especially the way that, um, you know, growing up in that setting, that's why I'm more protective of my kids now. And I don't have any, like, it's not like I have major regrets or, Oh, I wish I didn't have this exposure, but I think I just see the, the positives and the negatives. And I just feel more

Yeah, there's a season where it was a little out of hand. And I found myself trying to go to the post office and being followed and just going back home because I was like, I'm not going to go.

there was a season where it was just very stressful and a lot of public family stuff was happening and so we're easy targets because we did not live in a gated community and they could just literally see me open my door, get my mail and take pictures and then they get money.

Yeah.

That's interesting. One time I even drove to the police station because I think after so many months of it, it started to wear on me. Honestly, I felt like I just wanted to keep all my windows closed and not go out because it was so stressful. And it was around a lot of the time where...

It wasn't just like they did want pictures of me, but it was more so because they wanted to write articles about other family stuff that was happening. And all the pictures were of me because it was easy to get. And the family lives in Arkansas, so you have to fly people in, right? So I got it. But there was one time I was driving and I drove for like 15 minutes trying to lose them safely.

I had a way of doing it. I would go through like all of these neighborhoods and I'd backtrack. And if the car followed me, then I knew I was being followed. And... I would memorize the cars on our street. There was like 30 cars, you know, of our neighbors had them all memorized. If there was a weird one, I'd write it down on my notes.

Like we're not going that route because it's just, well, it wasn't against a midwife or a birth center, but I wanted us to be at the hospital in the hospital with us. So there's a difference. Like you're there if you need, if you have an emergency, you're not being transported. So that's what we decided to do. But my birth plan is literally to go in and have the baby.

Cause I knew that they were probably sitting there waiting to get pictures or waiting to follow me. And some of them would not blur our kids' faces for a while. And we had to like, as soon as it was posted, I would get on them and I would like message, you need to take that down immediately or blur their face. So things like that, right? So it was just a struggle.

But this one time I even went to the police station and asked them if they, I was like, Hey, I'm being followed. Can you please take care of this? They're like, why are you being followed? I was like, well, it's paparazzi. And they said, we can't do anything.

They said we can't do anything. They said you can stay here as long as you'd like. But that was at some point where every time I went out, it started getting shaky because I couldn't even, I felt so anxious. Even though I knew they were just going to take a picture, it's in your head, right? Like I have my kids. Yeah. And you're in LA.

You want to think you're safe, but then you also realize, well, there could be some crazy people out there. Yeah. You don't know who's who. So I'm being followed by dark tint car, dark tinted car. And I know, okay, this one I knew was paparazzi because he had got pictures of me before and I knew his car. I had it on my list.

So like, you know, it just, those types of things come up. Well, there was a funny story. I was, um, I say it's funny now, but like that, this is what happened. I went to the grocery store. It was on Felicity's birthday. I was getting her party supplies. So I had like tons of cases of like, um, drinks and on the very front, I had like two cases of water or whatever. And, um,

And when they checked, they did the checkout thing, they took the case of water off and barely put it on the front, like on the very bottom. And so it was hanging off the front of the cart. Well, I go walk out of the store and I hit a divot in the parking lot. And the entire cart goes up in the air and starts to flip.

Well, I had on top of the cart, like where the kids typically would sit in the child seat, there was like another case of water and bags of ice. So I am... As soon as this goes up, the cart goes up, I'm literally putting my entire body on top of the cart, trying to hold it down. I'm trying to pull the cart down. It was so funny. It was one of... I was like, this is my most embarrassing moment.

As it was happening, I was thinking... This is just so mortifying because like I'm losing my entire cart load of all the groceries. Like everything's about to flip totally over. So in that moment, I was able to like recover the cart probably because I was working out a lot at that time. I was actually strong enough. Like I almost lost it. Like I literally almost flipped the entire cart.

So get it recovered. And I, I'm looking around like, did anybody see me? Did anybody see me? Oh, sure. Like, this is great. There were people who saw, um, but they're just kind of like, okay, that's weird going about their business. And then put everything in the car, got home. It was fine. And it was like a day or two later, there was an article that

That's how I plan. Because if I plan anything else, it's not going to happen. That's what I feel like. I feel like birth is, you can, well, this is my personal opinion. Let me just say that. I feel like with the ones who plan so much out, they were more stressed because their plan did not go as planned. For me, I'm not a planner in general. I just don't like to plan a lot of things.

And it popped up and it was like, I can't even remember the headline now, like off the top of my head, but basically like ginger almost take ginger takes a spill or her car takes a spill, whatever. It was really funny. And it had all the progression of photos, me walking out of the store.

Um, I had like a Mickey mask on, you know, so I look like a clown already and I'm like walking out and I'm like happy or whatever. And then you see my face and

That moment. It has the full progression of all the photos. I sat there and typically I feel like I'm about to cry when I see photos because I'm like, leave me alone. But that time I laughed out loud for like days.

I would be sitting there doing something, washing dishes, and I would start laughing out loud because I was like, it was like, it felt like such an embarrassing moment when you're in that setting. Like I'm such an idiot. I should have checked the front of the cart. But I actually reposted it because I thought it was so funny. I reposted just the photo and just said like, this happened, you know?

Because it was one of those moments where I just thought, okay, like everybody will have something like this happen where you're just like so embarrassed. And I said, just when I thought no one was looking, you know, like I, you're just had that sigh of relief. At least no one else was here with me. None of my friends or anything. And then it's everywhere. So that one, I got a good laugh out of.

And it really was, it was so funny. I looked it up, I'll be honest with you.

Yeah, it was so good.

how could you that's crazy that must be frustrating all the headlines and so that was part of the frustration too is like i'm not trying to like rub anything in anyone's face either that's still like in that place like i don't that's but the headlines half of them are like ginger you know bashes or family or whatever i'm like no i'm literally just living my life

I love my family. For sure. And that's the difference, right? So that was an experience.

Were they denim skirts? too it was not it was like a modest swimwear so the had like built in almost like leggings like this but then it had a dress part that was like swim material but it came down like oh it was made for made for swimming yeah wow they call it modest something modest swimwear but i don't remember is that a brand no

can't remember the brand name she's like i think our neighbor showed them yeah wait actually it was interesting no no no you could buy this on the market it's yeah it was just an interesting thing and they had like it was just not easy to swim in let's just say that so i didn't learn how to swim and then even if i did get in the water there was one time i was so embarrassed you know i was like i just i'm not gonna do this

We don't either, actually. Close up of the unplanned side.

so I just avoid it like avoid water like the plague until we lived in California where you can't avoid water yeah now you're learning so I am I we have a pool we have a fence around it because our kids are just well Felicity's just learning to swim like this summer she just started swim lessons and um I learned to swim but I'm not like a very confident swimmer yet um so I'm getting there I'm not a really good swimmer actually either