Jessica Baum
Appearances
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
This is an iHeart Podcast.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
elizabeth i think you can't fathom how she could choose this man over his daughter which has a lot to do also with what that brings up inside of you which clearly you have a very strong and appropriate response to that level of betrayal she might be doing to her daughter by choosing this love over her daughter and so that's one piece but a really big piece of this is about attachment
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
and how our brains work. And our brains actually have us live in denial and remember the good times when these kinds of things come up to protect us. We are wired to stay in connection. So Sarah is wired to stay in connection with this guy. And it wasn't that black and white for Ashley either.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
I mean, there were many, many good years where Jason showed up and he was a wonderful person and he was a good father. And there's all these layers to this where your brain wants to focus and even romanticize and needs to in order to survive. And that's how we're wired. We're not wired to look at the bad stuff and just leave. Every domestic violent case, every person in any kind of situation would
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
flip a script and just walk out if it was that easy and attachment is just so layered so sarah was in her own way in a form of denial i also feel like with sarah she's involved in the therapeutic process with this man i don't know how much sarah was involved in understanding his trauma and i'm i'm saying that that might not be a good thing she might have over identified with his wounded parts
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
And under-identified with how he wounded her daughter. So there was an over-identification, maybe even a self-sacrifice on her end for this little boy in him who got abused and wanting to help that little boy that she wasn't able to see how this adult man was hurting her kids. I don't know if that helps, but this is how our brain works and this is how trauma works.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
And, you know, Ashley and I, we were in the grief process for a really long time together. It's not like this easy process. I mean, 13 year marriage. I mean, Ashley and I spent more time thinking about how wonderful Jason was. And that's where her brain wanted to go for a while.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
And that was important for Ashley to get to the other side and integrate the full version of Jason, not the good and the bad, but all of the behaviors and make sense of them all. And I think you had a really appropriate response as a friend. And you're clearly trying to put some of the pieces together. And I'm just trying to help clarify that. how challenging it is to be in Sarah's position.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
Not that I'm okay with her choices, but her choices make sense. Really, when you understand attachment, they can start to make sense.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
I keep going back to the theme of like connection is a biological imperative. So her daughter is preserving the connection with her mom as best she can. And you know, It's heartbreaking for us on the outside to see the daughter kind of sacrifice because the natural response to this type of abuse is rage. That is a healthy response.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
And if she's really doing some trauma work and working therapeutically, the hope is that the therapist will help her access what it feels like when someone perpetrates your boundaries like that. But again, we don't want to push her there in a therapeutic setting. They might help her see this and make the healthiest choices for her.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
But it might be too scary for her to set big boundaries with her mom right now. And I think the best thing you can do for her daughter is be a listener, hold space for her, but don't try to fix her or advise her. If she is in therapy, they can help her set the boundaries. You just need to hold the space and work through with you, Elizabeth, what's coming up in you.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
And you might want to work through that with somebody else. Like, I want to tell this daughter this, and I want to tell her this, and I'm having all this anger. And all of that is about you, and it's totally valid. But it's for you to work through in your own kind of space around all of that, because... That's how you can kind of keep the boundaries a little bit better for you.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
You can hold space. If she's asking, that's another thing. But with enough therapy, she will get there on her own time, I believe. In her own way, in her own safety, she will say, wait a minute. Let me look at where my rage is or she might access those things, but you can't make her get there faster if she's not ready, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
Yeah, I mean, I have a couple of things to say about that, but boundaries that you said so brilliantly, boundaries aren't about punishing another person or controlling another person. They're about protecting ourselves. Right. And so the boundary that you set was for your own emotional help, you know, to protect yourself from what you were seeing that was causing a lot of distress inside of you.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
So when I set a boundary, I try to say, hey, I'm doing this for me. This is why I'm doing it. But I mean, attachment runs deep. And there are times you want to say, like, why don't you just leave? And it's not that simple. It's not that easy. When you describe their love, it sounds like Sarah has a very early attachment bond.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
She will override what we all think she should do to stay in relationship to not face the fear of losing her person. She's surviving and staying in an attachment that gives the illusion of being safer or more security. Then leaving and facing the deep well of aloneness or emptiness, her system knows that she might have to face without him. Honestly, that was me.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
Often it's not about the other person's behavior. It's not about this guy's behavior. It's about what part of myself do I need to face if I actually leave this relationship that's terrifying me. Her brain is going to work really hard to minimize things to keep connection with him. And everybody on the outside is going to look at this and it's very black and white.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
But when you're on the inside and you're living it, it's not that black and white. And it wasn't that black and white for Ashley either. I mean, I had to meet Ashley and I had to say, of course, you love him. Of course, you miss him. Of course, tell me about the good years. It wouldn't have worked if I just went in black and white with you, Ashley, just wouldn't have worked.
Betrayal: Season 4
Betrayal Weekly: Listener Mail - How Do I Help My Friend?
This is an iHeart Podcast.