Janko
Appearances
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
We learned a lot of things last night. Can I just throw that out there, Chad? We don't have to talk about it. We learned a lot. Yanko and I were just chatting a little bit before we went live. There was a lot of information that came in last night. Last night was a crazy night for information.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, well, I mean, whenever you make that change, there's always going to be like that period where I feel like you lose a lot of confidence in the finishing moves and rounds, right? When you have a new IGL, like that's the hardest thing for him to discover is figuring out where that weakness is to actually finish a round that you put yourself in a good position.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I feel like it's usually the struggles with an IGL.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I think it's awesome, obviously. It's only positive. I think it's sick to see because I hope it continues because I like coming back to Australia every two years, every other year. It's awesome. So, I mean, what a great turnout for the event. I think ESL's got to be happy about that.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
We just assume.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
It is, especially when you have to do a full best-of-five grand final and four of the maps are closed and the last one goes into overtime. That's always going to wreck your voice a little bit.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, it really is. That's the final you dream of casting right there.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
That was brutal.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
They were all blowouts as well. Well, I mean, I guess there's a point we could just start on with Melbourne is talking about the Mongols because it's now back-to-back events where they've had disappointing results.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
That was... I think that's the bummer. Like, yeah, a good event in terms of placing, in terms of everything leading up to that point, but not even being competitive with Vitality, I think was a huge disappointment for me.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, which is, I mean, in one sense, it's really cool to see them have to win a game. You know, like a team like Vitality that's had this start to the year, that's having this level of honeymoon, I guess one of the last things you'd say coming into a game or an event like this is like, we haven't really seen them tested.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
You know, we haven't really seen them like punched in the face and have to come back. But then in this grand final, they were down 12-6 in the third map and they came all the way back. They won by heroics. They won by individual clutches. That 1v2 from ZywOo was insane. Yeah. So all of a sudden that thing of have has this team that is the best in the world properly been tested.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And it's like, well, yeah, now you can't really fuck with that because they just came back in a best of five grand final on the stage down by six to force overtime. Like you've done an excellent job. So, yeah, I think it's one of those things where now when you see Vitality win a match like this, you're just like, oh, fuck. What truly what is what is the weakness of this team?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Which is, I think, a situation that every team that has been in this situation has vitality over the years. We've always asked that. You think Fnatic 2015 on their crazy run, it's like, how are we going to beat them? Astralis back in their peak form is like, how are we going to beat them?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
There's always teams that show up and have this run of form where it's like, what the fuck is the weakness and how is anyone going to beat them? I mean, as much as positives as the grand final showed, it also showed us that there's some weakness and they can have an off game that teams can take advantage of.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Now, not many teams have proven that they can take advantage of it outside of Falcons because of the massive skill gap. But, you know, that it's possible that vitality run out of steam coming into the major. And that's their question. And that's I thought it was really cool seeing that from all the interviews after that win was just like, if we don't win the major, this means nothing.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
This really isn't that big of a deal if we don't win the major. The major is still king. So now you have a question of is vitality peaking a little bit early and can they continue this run of form as everyone looks at them coming into the major?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Bro, for how much we want to praise Vitality for winning that series, there's no one in Counter-Strike who has more heartbreaking losses than Niko, right? Especially in finals. On one level, I'm just like, how is this guy still going? How many close, brutal, depressing losses can one man handle? It's just another one.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
It's got to feel terrible if you're Niko and that game ends and you're just like, what the fuck, again? We let them come back again?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
You're like, all right, fine. 10 hours of this bullshit is enough.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I can build upon that if we want to go down like inconvenient stories. This is a nice home ownership story. All right. I've had quite a week as a homeowner. We got new carpet down here in the studio, which included some stairs down to the basement. Well, the carpet people got here and they realized that the risers on the stairs were really flimsy, needed to be replaced.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
So I had to have a whole new construction crew come in to do that really quick. I had my water heater shit the bed. I have no hot water in the house at the moment except for the kitchen sink.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I think they could beat Spirit. I don't think they could beat Vitality, and I'm not convinced any longer that they could beat Falcons. But I think if you have the – I mean – I don't know. I don't think we necessarily lied to ourselves. I think you guys just outlined it perfectly. Start of the year, a lot of the teams that we expected to be strong were weak.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
So these guys got to kind of take advantage of that and climb the rankings. But I mean, they made finals. They made semifinals. And in that field at the moment, I think we had them kind of accurately written as they've got to get over this inexperience hump. But the opportunity to win a trophy is certainly there. Moving forward, I mean, I think they're going to be good for closing now.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
yeah they're gonna yeah that that opportunity is certainly probably fully closed now yeah but it's still a team that can do damage and depending on how the bracket plays out right like you never know if vitality gets matched up with spirit in a quarterfinal vitality gets taken out and and then you know all of a sudden you have kind of this weird road where where it's much more doable yeah but that's all you know that's all yeah that's all it's upon asterix upon asterix i'm just saying i'm just like you know it's my job and all but
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And then we have some clogs going on in our plumbing system, some like mineral buildup deposits. So every day is a new day of which sink isn't going to work. It was Jane's master bathroom sink last night. It was the kitchen bar sink last Yesterday morning, the kitchen sink was before that our shower in the bathroom only has like 30% capacity on water pressure. What else there was one more thing.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I think I think if you want to take that angle to it, I'm with you. Sure. I'm probably for Aurora. I think you need like a third kind of player who can make those those sort of things happen. Zantaras and Woxic can both do it.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, but they don't have that next high level to step up to to completely turn a game around, I feel. Locadio will hit a heater, but he won't just bust out some miraculous moment to string a clutch to change the fortune of a run. I think Mongols probably have the best chance of having those players that you're looking for considering how fucking young they are.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
like 9-10 Mizuno-Senzu as they get a little bit older, a little bit more experience. I think that team has a future in it at the very least.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Well, I have a question. Wouldn't you consider, would you consider the win over Liquid a proper playoff win?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Well, here's a question, because we kind of just... It's not lazy, but it's just kind of like we fall into it of talking about these teams as if they're inexperienced on the stage. Like, don't they? Are we are we when do we when are we done giving them the inexperience pass?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I feel Aurora should be as well. They were in the playoffs of Copenhagen major last year. You know, like they've been doing, they've had like a year of making playoffs in stage games.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Not all of them in arenas. But, you know, they've gone deep and they've got really experienced players on the team.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
But you can't tell me Major Woxic and Zantaras are not experienced. You know, like that's where I look at it and I'm like, they have a core of players that have been around forever.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Oh, I got a new air conditioner installed as well. So I had a whole new construction crew route for that. And then last night I got home from running errands and I was so excited. I got all my work done. I was going to go play video games for like an hour and a half while I didn't have the baby, while the baby was with the babysitter. So it was like the only hour and a half I had.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Well, I think also for the first time in Counter-Strike history, you can actually extend this as a career into your 30s too. That's a big change as well. So we kind of get to experiment of what's going to happen. Previously, as soon as you got to the point where...
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
you wanted to buy a house or have a kid or get married it was like you don't have the financials and counter-strike to to actually support it and that's changed over the past decade so yeah we get to see some of these guys actually try and push into their 30s and mid-30s in a way that we haven't been able to see people in the past able to dedicate that level of time to it so how many players are we saying this about though right because i think one of the issues that you're
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And I walked up the stairs to sit down on my gaming PC and the wind had blown a window out of its frame and into my gaming room and it shattered on the ground. So I stepped up and there was just a shattered window all in my gaming room and I had to clean that up. That was my day yesterday.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Was it Blade who said he wouldn't look at anyone over 25 or something like last year? Am I imagining that? There was a coach who came out and said that he wouldn't look at players over a certain age.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, I know. I'm pretty sure it was play, but I could be wrong. But yeah, I mean, we've heard those little rumblings of, you know, yeah, we're looking at younger players. And by the way, I think that's a smart way to go about it, especially during a game change. You know, you give me two or three more years and I'd say kind of look for some veteran presence in certain scenarios.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
But I think at the change of a game, going younger to me feels like it's always like a smarter long-term decision.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
That's been three days. Buy a house, they said. It'll be fun, they said. You got scammed, maybe. That's what I feel like.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Hey, can I throw a little spice into the mix? Because I've been excited all week when you guys were at to hear your guys' thoughts on this. The furia changes. The furia changes. They've dropped Cello. They've brought in Molodoy, an AWPer from Kazakhstan. They've dropped Skulls. They've brought in Yakinder. They've taken Fallen off the AWP and made him a rifle IGL.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And there's a lot to unpack there. And, I mean, I'll start this by just saying... I guess this felt like a fucking desperate scattershot to begin with, but then when the report came out that they were talking to Fur and moving forward with Fur until Yakinder's plans with Perfecto and Simple fell through, so then they got Yakinder, it just makes it seem even more like we're just rolling with it.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
We've got no game plan. We're just kind of going with whatever presents itself.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Which seems like a really difficult thing to pull off for a Brazilian organization specifically.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And you need to be doing better than the other Brazilian teams.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I know, I should. Just tear it all down and start over. There's too many things to worry about right there.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I think they're bigger in other games than they are in chemistry.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Since COVID started, essentially.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
You know, it's the eternal question. Whenever you get to an event and someone's like, oh, how is the travel going? It's like, it was travel. You know, like nothing, like no disaster happened. I didn't get like canceled a delay, but it was travel. It's like, it can only be so good.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
The longer we go, the less fun there is.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
those type of coffee machines, you know, to desalinate the coffee machine. It's it's a multi hour affair. Yeah, you got to you got to put the solution and you got to run it all the solution through it, I think like twice and then you got to run like five settings of water all the way through it drain the tank like four or five times. Okay, so that's, that's how you desalinate a coffee machine.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Well, I guess if you, if you're going to take any positive away from this Furia move, I, the only one that I can kind of think up in my head, I'm actually, I mean, I'm actually kind of excited for this just because it's like a car crash. It's like, I want to watch, I want to watch Molodoy and Yukinder and this team, because it just feels like it's going to be a mess. Remember?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
when they tried to switch and bring Junior in as an au pair and switch to English, and that went terribly. We're kind of doing it again now, except even more complicated. Fallen switching to a rifle as an IGL after we just watched KD and struggle with it.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
You know what it is, though, is we're no longer traveling to every event together. Remember, like, back in the day, we used to just, like, pick up an event, like, in, like, the last week of, you know, like, you'd be at an event in, like, Poland. And then on, like, the second to last day, everyone would get a message to go fly off to, like, fucking, I don't know.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I think the only positive I have for Furia right now with these moves is surely this frees up some space to be flexible after the major when the dust settles and you see where all the Brazilian teams, and I don't expect it. I'm hoping for it.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
It's I'm trying to I'm trying to find a positive. And if I think long term, I think Molodoy probably on some kind of like a rookie contract, academy contract, probably pretty cheap to get to get. I think your kinder coming in from Team Liquid, he was on their bench.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I'm sure they were willing to give him that loan for fucking peanuts, just in the hope that someone would take him off him, that maybe has a good performance and they can sell him. So I have to feel like you've you've made these moves relatively cheap. And now you freed up a little bit of space and a little bit of economy and a little bit of salary to make a move when the major ends.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
But my question mark is, I don't know what the long term play is anymore, because I think Molodoy was fully bought out of his contract.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I'm just curious about what the... I'm trying to... I'm curious about what the plan is for Furia. Because, like, you're right. You do have, like, kind of two options. Do you go back to being Brazilian? Or do you keep Molodoy and start transitioning into more international rosters? Um...
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
But isn't that exciting to you, the potential for someone to make a terrible fucking decision and waste a year and a half of time? No, Jason.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
That's agonizing. To where you can point at it and be like, how have you decided to make this decision of all decisions? That's what I want to know.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I don't either, but it's self-inflicted, and I'm just going to watch.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Well, cucking somebody's general managing misfortune gets my pickle fucking going.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, man. Gun to my head, I could beat off 100 men.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I tuned into those. Those were good clips. Those were nice.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I like that you brought the joke full circle.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
How many people got that? Caught it? Did anyone?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
You guys have to – that show match started at midnight my time.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
He's doing a eulogy.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Sure.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
What's in the coffin, they say?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Is Alex in the priest outfit as well? Does he have the white collar?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
It was a shirtless picture. It was good. It was up on the big screen as well in the middle.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Fucking weird ass thing to say. Look, I'm just watching the video. I'm just doing like stream of consciousness shit. He was shirtless. What do you want from me?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And then you're up to date on the caches.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Did you practice that?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
That's basically a no. That's like, I'm not going to do this, but if you pay me, if you're insane enough to pay me this much money, I like that. That's a great strategy.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, I saw that. I saw that clip on the subreddit. That was good. You nailed it. You did really well with it. Really absorbed the hit.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I haven't caught it yet.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I had a friend in town this weekend. I was busy for like four days straight.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Ooh, there's a whole series.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
What else have we got going on? Are we good? There hasn't been too much since your guys' last episode. Don't can match Saewoo, but Kyosuke might dominate him. That feels like some magic.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Loud anthem.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
It's been a while since the three of us did an episode, I feel. We're all back together. This is great. How was Australia? Anything cool happen? Not with the travel, just with the actual location? Chad, you had Rush there for a week. You guys certainly had to get up to some shenanigans.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, we put that in its category of its own. It's not worth the comparison for sure. Well, Maus to tie it is going to be a tough one.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
They've already beat Liquid's record if you filter out BO1s in online games.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
He's just lost his motivation to do anything, hasn't he, at that point?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I still think it's funny that like looking back on that liquid run in 2019, how incredible those like 60 days were, you know, like that was like the best sprint in Counter-Strike history. Like I can't think of a single better two month stretch of any team where you've just won. Actually, I guess maybe vitality, but I mean, you know, they've just been so utterly dominant. The grants. Yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
It's funny looking back on that and just being like, holy shit, those guys, those guys established so many fucking records in that room.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
We don't we don't talk about sad for you. We don't talk about that as to all this dominance run in the context of like the maps. But thinking back, I mean, 2018, they were like the best team in the world on like three or four maps out of the pool. And like probably the second best team on the other three or four maps is it was unreasonable as fuck.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
No, I would say they were probably the team to beat for a decent period, but it wasn't like that they were dominant.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Has a team ever had a flawless season? Like won every event they competed in for like the first half of a year?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I don't think so.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And they're skipping Astana as well.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And you hang out in America for a week and then you have three weeks in Austin.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
It's 10 days between Dallas and the Major, isn't it?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Can I say this whole VRS thing?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I don't want to dive into the details and the rankings or everything, but I'll just say I found the RMRs way more exciting of a process.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Well, yeah, but as we got closer to the major, there was exciting moments. This is kind of cool because it can attribute that excitement to one match at an event or a specific event where so much is going to be on the lines as we get used to it down the stretch. But the actual process of going through the RMR was so much more exciting.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Not even just the LAN, just having the event where you stepped into it and you're like, here's 16 teams. Eight of them are eliminated and eight of them move on. That's an exciting...
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
You mean the number of spots given at the MRQ is not ideal.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I think European is probably the region where you could attribute most of the invites to VRS because they have so many lands throughout the year that you probably have a more accurate ranking element.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
No, I don't want to go down this road because it is into the details that I wanted to. But doesn't it make more sense for FlyQuest? Is there a world in which it makes more sense for FlyQuest to just play at events in Australia and China and Asia and not even do European events? Isn't there a world in which they're like, why don't we just go kind of farm and get wins at these local regional events?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Well, they played a couple to start this year when they still got the invites.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I've made that argument with other teams as well, but when it comes to the VRS, it almost feels counterintuitive that it would make more sense to stay regional.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
I think we should end on that positive note.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah. On an uplift, I think.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
You've got to go grind some practice. I'm going to stop this.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Not that I you know, an expert know that you really actually know.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, it's amazing how much that shit can change your mentality in an event.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And that would be the ENAT Boop Camp, state-of-the-art esports facility in Belgrade, Serbia, enat.gg. That is E-N-A-T dot G-G.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Lactose-free milk, powdered milk, perhaps, condensed milk. Condensed milk's good. Yeah, condensed milk. It goes in Vietnamese coffee and it turns it into a banger.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
That was always our description of Sydney, though. Australia was always a unique event because you show up and it was like, this just happens to be kind of like a party that Counter-Strike is just being played on the screens. It always felt that way when I was casting in Australia. It was like, they're doing something entirely different from the game.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
And then the game is on and they tune in, they have a great time with it, and they're an awesome crowd. But there's a whole other party going on in this building that has nothing to do with Counter-Strike.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
This has got to be an annoying question. I'm sure, Chad, you were asked this in the past week, but do you, I mean, a lot of the conversation every time we have an event in Australia and we see how good the environment is and how fun everyone's having and how cool it is to watch, the question always comes up, when's Australia getting their major?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Do you think anything's moved on that front at all in any regard, or is that still kind of like one of those things that just seems far-fetched at the moment?
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
All right. So there's that.
Talking Counter
Episode 133: IEM Melbourne, Vitality and Falcons, FURIA changes, who are the true title contenders?
Yeah, I'm with you with the understanding that if anyone starts doing things in that time zone, it's going to be in China. I think that's the biggest obstacle, is China's just going to be more valuable.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But I mean, four months does seem like an awfully long time. Four months is probably way... You broke it up into three month blocks, right? That would be four seasons over the course of a year. Four seems like a lot. Four is a long time.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I don't know. I never worked for WePlay.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, I think because they tried to tie everything together throughout the season, right? So the group stage would then flow into the, if you didn't qualify there, you'd go into the showdown. If you did, then you'd go to the final. But it didn't make any sense.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah. That's like, that's a tier classic of trying to tie the story together in their own, um, isolated way. Exactly. And we know how that seems to go. You're better off embracing the bigger picture, but yeah, I think the problem is valve of made a fix to solve a problem that did affect the team at the upper level. But now there's that implications on smaller regions and everything like that.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So probably just needs a circle back, a look at the formats, definitely to just kind of discuss what, what does and doesn't make sense in the current ecosystem. Because also the thing is we want to have the best case for the ranking, but we also want to make sure that people aren't pushed out of being able to try and compete in Counter-Strike at different levels and potentially climb up the ranks.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's the last thing I'd imagine Valve would want to do. So yeah, that probably just needs to be thought about a little bit more as well. So it's nothing too insane, but this is it, right? There's gonna be lots of this. There's gonna be adjustments, then people are gonna come in and they're gonna say, oh, this, fuck this, or this changed.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
This is the exact reason why Valve changed very little with the game, right? Because one thing has a big impact on a lot of other things that might not be considered. So they only tweak these little levers every now and again. And with this ranking, it needs to happen a little bit quicker just because of the major and everything like that.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And by doing so, you're seeing the impact of a lot of these changes. But it's just, again, because of our perspective, we just get to sit back and comment on it and see it all unfold. So we're less directly impacted by it. So we just get to see as it all goes. But yeah, it will continue to iron itself out and it will have impacts on one thing or another. So...
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
We just keep on plowing through, I guess.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I don't think they're at EPO.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
no so that there could be some implications there if uh vp or epl vp are not at epl either okay so yeah this is where it's going to start coming down to the detail but they should be in lisbon let me double check they are australis are in lisbon right so yeah unless the that's lisbon's going to be the big defining one now that these new changes have come in because it would have been before that it would have been during pgo book arrest that the cutoff would have been but now the
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
that this new thing that's coming from Valve, that won't matter at this point. It'll be after Lisbon will essentially know I guess we should know all of the teams at that point who are going to be qualified, and then it's just down to the MRQ and how that's all going to be sorted. So, yeah, that's the big thing to focus on at the moment.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And then stepping back, like you said, after Austin, we'll have a better perspective on it all. But also, I think I would even be holding out until after the second major of the year because then we'll have had a proper full season worth of counterstrike going into that to be able to see what it really looks like.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So I think the second major of the year will give us even a better indication of all of that. So I think, It's interesting in the fallout from Cluj, right? Because Navi dropping so low and the way that, yeah. People like knee jerking about, oh, you know, this ranking is shit. I just think people don't understand what the ranking is trying to achieve, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It's essentially meant to be closer to a power ranking. It's over a six month period. It has a harsher decay. And it's just meant to collect the, it's not meant to say like, this is the number one guaranteed best team in the world. Whereas HLTVs, I think is more meant to go from that angle, right? Like HLTVs is like, these guys are the best team in the world right now, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Whereas I think Valve are just making sure that they can collect the best teams, right? Doesn't matter. if you're 1 to 10 or whatever, but just the best teams, it obviously does matter because of where you're going to come in the measure or whatever. But I don't think it's meant to be pinpoint accurate in that sense because it's at different levels.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, and obviously there's things that people look at and they go, well, Mongols is number three, but that's because of the prize money of events that they were winning late last year. So we need to see how this kind of all shakes out over a longer period of time.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And again, there needs to be more tweaking to the mechanisms because I don't like some of the stuff that happened with obviously the start of the year and certain teams getting high rankings and invited to events that they never should have been invited to. So those things need to be worked out at some point, or if they solve themselves, then we are seeing the process work.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But yeah, the fallout right now is this is the impact of if you're a team who's on the fringe, if you skip an event and other teams around you do good, you will fall in the rankings.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, so for them it only matters about being top five in America, I'm pretty sure. They just need to be top five. And right now they are in America second. So as long as they don't fall out of that, they're all good.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
right so sure right now like they're fine they're in the top five for the americas but i i don't know maybe it can get maybe it can go south real fast here's my counter to that at the moment because they have invitations all the way up until dallas this is my problem with how the invites are being done is i feel like it's way too early like we already have all the teams picked for dallas right so right now
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It's Vitality, Eternal Fire, G2 FaZe, the Mongols, Maus, Falcons, Liquid, right? So Liquid agreed to go, and when they would have been invited, they would have been higher in the rankings at that point. But it feels like they're invited way too early before the event, and people will say, oh, yeah, but visas and this and that.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It's like, well, then maybe we shouldn't hold events in countries where visas are going to be such a big issue. That, for me, is already a problem. They're in Melbourne as well. So in terms of what you're talking about, Janko, those impacts, we might not even see those until... What, the invites for Cologne go out?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But the invites for Cologne have to go in before the major, wouldn't they?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, so you went to the impact after the season.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, that's another big conversation too, right? And that's one that I got HLTV a little bit later tonight. So I guess we pre-record and then this will go out whenever it goes out. But I'm doing HLTV Confirmed tonight and that's going to be a big topic. I already had a conversation with Striker and Prof about it.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Because the way that this seems to be misunderstood at the moment is like it's the TOs fighting each other. and they're like doing these sneaky things. Now they may be doing these sneaky things, but as by Valve's rules, anything that you are using to incentivize teams to come to your tournaments needs to be public, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So Blast do the, it's not an appearance fee, I forget the term for it, but it's like, if you qualify for the event and you're like one to four, you get this much appearance money. If you're five to eight, you get this much appearance money, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Whereas ESL are doing the club money, which is semantics, but it's just the prize pool, making sure that that goes to the organization as opposed to the players. They're also doing that revenue share thing, which says that you can't skip three events over two years, essentially.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah. But that's if you want to be eligible. You don't have to do that, right? The Blasts also have the frequent flyers. Same thing. It's with skipping events. And if you want to be eligible, you can be eligible. If you don't want to be eligible, that's up to you. You can make that choice as an org.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And then the thing is with PGL Cluj happening, a lot of people are like, oh, well, why aren't the big teams here when it's such a big prize pool? Well, it's because those teams are the teams who were primarily because Spirit wasn't. Oh, actually, did Spirit become a Blast partner team towards the end there?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So there was, but most of the other teams, so Vitality, Na'Vi, Liquid, G2, Furia, they were partner teams, right? And they are orgs who apparently want to make sure that they have these guarantees from the TOs for their business model to work, right? Whereas PGL aren't offering that. PGL are saying, come in, win the prize money and work out the split with your fucking players.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Like it's up to you to work out. Exactly, that's what PGL are saying. So PGL have picked their business model. Blast have picked their business model. ESL have picked their business model. But it's the, it's, I mean, boys, it's the orgs that are the bad guys. These fucking orgs, they're the bad... You know how I was saying, I just wanted to be five guys.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
No. Okay. Take this, mate. Take this for a second.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They're the bad guys. Okay, go on. Okay, so Prof said this to me, and I thought this was really good. He said, if tomorrow, if the tournament organizers and the players disappeared, there'd be no tournaments. If the orgs disappeared tomorrow, there'd still be players and there'd still be tournaments.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Get these fucking orgs out of here, Jason.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They're the ones who are choosing not to go to PGL's events because they're trying to leverage PGL.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But here's the next problem, because you just brought up the key point. The key point with all of this is the business model. All of those orgs are just like ESL. They don't actually know what the fuck they are, and Blast as well. They don't know what they are. They don't know what they're doing.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They're like, how can we have as many different revenue streams as possible to keep this boat afloat, which has been sinking since day one?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Most of them.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's a great topical joke. Anyway, the thing is they don't know what they are. So what they're doing is they're now putting pressure on one of the entities, which is the TOs, which we know rarely make money on events until recent history. Only in the last couple of years did TOs start making money on majors.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
PGL, they're in a really strong position to make money on events because they run more of a tight-knit ship.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
right they don't have like a big social media company they're not making a shitload of content they're not building a fucking watch party platform called blast tv or face at watch or anything right they're just focusing on what they do which is run tournaments and they can generate that and they have a guy in their sales team who apparently knows how to sell better than everybody else in the entire industry he's a fucking homie isn't he
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
He knows how to sell. Nobody else knows how to sell, apparently. So, like, PGO make money. These other TOs we know don't make money. And it's because they're, like, selling off to part of the Danish government or fucking Saudi Arabia or this. And then someone comes in to tighten the belt. It's like, wait, we were talking about orgs. Now I'm talking about TOs. I know.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They're all bad guys.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They're all bad guys.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But it's just like, I can't believe, right, that the angle of like blasting ESL bad because teams not attend PGO, it's like... They are doing the thing that they think will incentivize teams coming to their events, right? And they have to publicly state what those things are. They're all out there. Like I could go find them right now. They're all public things. Yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I feel like playing on the ice, though. There's a lot more things that go wrong. Who likes golf? Nothing likes golf. Automatic likes golf.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It's like, it's, it's the orgs who are choosing and what do the orgs have? Okay. They have the fan base, right? Which then has brings the viewership. So they are leveraging that power over PGL by not attending their events.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
You can't be upset about that. Here's the solution. So these parties need to go to their players and they need to say, hello, players, we will give you two choices. Choice number one, you can keep your big salary, but we will take 50% or more of your prize money. And then players will say, I like guaranteed money. I would say 95% of players would want their guaranteed salary over the prize money.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And they say to the players, hey, if you want to keep doing this and you want to stay earning this much money, this is what has to happen. Option two, you have to, what was option two? I had it in my brain a second ago.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Oh, yes. That is option two. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Halve your salary and take all the prize money. And players won't do that because it's not guaranteed money. So that's how this is fixed.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Rambo likes golf.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Really?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Okay. Trace likes golf. He went to a golf tournament with little Mr. Dinkles.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Maybe they could start. It could be something that they could look on bringing into their lives.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Look, and I think it will happen in the long term because based on a few things, one that you pointed out earlier in terms of the results, when the results are there, a team drops off, they have to go to the event, or what we're going to see happen when we do go to war because they're scheduled over each other in 2027, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think PGL and Blast are scheduled over the top of each other in 2027 with the events announced.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, here's the problem if you're Blast. Your money that you have, maybe it incentivizes the orgs to come to your event, but it really, really, really, really is hampered in the VRS.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, he is a tall boy, so what are you saying, like climbing beanstalks? What taller things would Dinko be doing?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So at that point, if you're literally overlapping over each other and you have to make a choice, you're probably going to go for the event, which is going to get you the qualification for the major because the orgs are going to get more out of the sticker money than they are out of the fucking appearance fee to come to the event, right? in theory.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So when you go to war in 2027, PGO will come out on top. PGO's formats are also better for this. Half of the bounty is online. It counts for fucking diddly squat. There's also, you need to look at how many LAN matches are being played at, what the prize money split is. All of their events have the third place playoff, which then makes a bigger distinction between third and fourth.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
We're talking $62,500 difference between those two positions. which plays in a lot depending on your placing in the VRS at any given time. So when we get to the point of going to war, Silviu's method will come out on top. It's just at the moment, they're not at war.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They've given each other like enough space in the calendar for everybody to run, but that'll change come 2027 because they've already announced these dates, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So I just having to look at, there's two things right now. So I was just going through the Valve rules. So in the Valve, like rules for running tournaments, 2025 and onwards, in section five, competition and integrity, 5.2, non-discriminatory, treatment of teams.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
There's a point in there that says, if tournament operator is going to share revenue or otherwise provide financial support, then the support must be equivalent for all rosters or otherwise determined by an objective KPI that is applied equally to all rosters, including rosters that have been directly invited, qualified, or entered through a wildcard invite determined before rosters are selected.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Such support must be accessible by all participating rosters determined by rosters performance in the tournament. Another objective merit-based KPI relating to the tournament, e.g. viewership,
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
numbers of matches blah blah blah so that's where we have these different framings of things right huh no yeah cool so like if you get invited to the blast bounty right based off of your point in the vrs at the point of invitation blast bounty first to eight forty thousand guaranteed if you accept the invite and play ninth to sixteenth twenty six thousand two hundred and fifty 17 to 32nd, 7,500.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's just for going. That's before we get into the prize money conversation, but that's why the prize money at blast events is less because they're guaranteeing money for accepting invites.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I don't know if it's where you place. I think it's just to do with attendance. Frequent Flyers program, 2 million yearly. So 2 million is the base. That 2 million I think can change, right? So within this, I'm reading it from the Blast website now. The Frequent Flyers program is designed to reward teams for their consistency and participation in multiple Blast events. The program works as follows.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Teams earn tokens for participating in events. Four tournaments, one token. Five tournaments, two tokens. Six tournaments, four tokens. Additional tokens are awarded for performance. Reaching the second week of bounty or open is one token. Winning bounty open arrivals is two tokens.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
At the end of the year, the frequent flyer pot, a minimum of two million, is divided based on the number of tokens accumulated. If a team declines an invite, they forfeit all tokens for that year.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think they changed that. I think that's been amended. You can like forfeit one event. I think, I think. So that's how like blast incentives work. But then, yeah, if you go and you look, let's go look at the Lisbon prize money. Lisbon prize money is 400K overall. So it's 150K first, 60,000 second, and then 40 for third, fourth, and then down to the bottom there, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So yeah, that's how blast are doing their incentives. And then, yeah, you mentioned the club share. It's just semantics, man.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, the average viewer, Tom, Dick, or fucking Harry doesn't give a fuck if it's club money or if it's prize money. It's the same shit.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I used it in Munich one time, I think like for four hours, something like that. But this is why people get up in my grills, man, about not having an alliance. And the reason he had to wait for nine hours is because he's flying with an alliance. So it's like, if I just want to get from point A to point B as quickly as humanly possible, I avoid all of that nonsense.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
All right. For fuck's sake. Can we talk about the game of Counter-Strike? This is literally the most important thing in the entire scene at the moment.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Here's what I want to do before we do the game of Counter-Strike. This is what I want to do.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
i want to say this i want to say that pgo coming back in and being disruptive by making sure that we actually get a good tournament format with a proper playoff bracket with an actual with a venue that wasn't 10 000 people it was about four to five or whatever it was it was nice it was intimate it was a good crowd it had a nice setup it had everything it wasn't a concert it was players facing each other it was a competition that's exactly what we needed in 2025. the
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's the fucking wake up. That's the shake up. That's what needed to happen. It needed to show all these other motherfuckers who were trying to do all this fancy shit. It's like, guys, they are showing you the blueprint for what it needs to be.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Just do it. If people come, they come. If some dickhead on HLTV or the Reddit says, oh man, there was no one in the fucking crowd.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It helped the game delivered, but also there was stakes. There was definite stakes for Astralis.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
There's no points, of course, and you have to pay for everything, but you get there quickly and my time is valuable.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
better than any show match other than the cashers um i'm biased with that one but i will stick by that but yeah i thought that it was it was good i thought also the this being only the third event of the season also means and with new rosters and teams who are trying to do well there's like lots of angles it's not just about the vrs it's also about setting the tone of the roster showing like going through more official reps getting more stage time there's a lot of things that i think went into the game that made it interesting um
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It was a good bit though, wasn't it? It was a good gag, yeah. We didn't even plan the gag. I think I made the comment on the cast and then Andre came out with the beers as per the request of Sebastian. So they made it happen.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And we were lucky that the first map was an absolute banger. So I thought it was good. What did you think, Janko?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think I think that when the prize money of PGO was the difference between first and second sorry third and fourth was about 60k let me get the exact figure up here because we're talking like a day at the office if you win 150k let's just divide it by six right if you're winning 150 000 divided by six that's roughly 25 000 ahead
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
right for for winning that match that's and i know they make a like i know the top teams make a lot of money in a month but 25 000 there's nothing to sniff at right and it might be a little bit less maybe it's 20k per player but still that that right there would be incentive enough for me to want to win you can do a lot with 20k mate that's your business class no i mean also i mean the difference between astralis and falcons is less than 40k
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I've seen it.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I'm not going to do what you guys are doing.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
what's the conspiracy there's a conspiracy theory yeah that they didn't want to go to dallas really so they lost the game when they played like that's a pretty good conspiracy theory see they could have qualified and just turned down the invite right like yeah that would be fine too uh so that's an interesting little theory um okay so the i think what is first important for me to to want to do jason is to set the context of the tournament
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
in greater comparison to everything else, right? Well, because the top teams in the world, right? The main three, Na'Vi, Spirit, Vitality are all missing. That plays in massively here. So with that in mind, this was not a battle between the top teams of the world. This was a battle between everybody else to kind of show where they're at in their progressions and where they're headed.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Is it the right direction that we're seeing from them early?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Except Liquid and Furia. We can't forget Furia. They are the Brazilian Liquid. So when we contextualize that, we need to make sure that we're not coming out here and being like, wow, these Mouses are the best team in the world right now. So that's important. So what I would be looking for when I was discussing Astralis would be signs of improvement.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And I would also look at what type of takeaways there would be for this team going forward. So there were signs of improvement from Astralis, right? They got to play quite a lot of maps throughout the course of it. They did have ups and downs, right? They had that really bad loss to Maus. They probably should have 2-0'd that series.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
If they had won that first map of Inferno, it would have been very likely for them to have been able to carry that momentum through and finish off the series and be done. But I will say mentally, I like the fact that they didn't just get blown out of that series.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They stayed in and they caused a fight still because it's really common for teams just to have collapses if you end up losing from a 12-4 deficit.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
then they also lost to it from a 12 to 8 deficit on mirage that went into that crazy overtime against phase right so i think mentally for australis there were some positive signs there i think uh what we were seeing from them overall as a team is still really choppy it's hit and miss like sometimes it looks pretty good sometimes it doesn't but obviously they're still trying to get the comfort for how they're going to play in the current matter of cs they only had to play
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Four maps, sorry, five different maps CS there. I don't think they had to play Train throughout that. And they banned Anubis. But we got to see a lot of maps. Inferno is clearly one of their home turfs and they also like Ancient. And then everything else is kind of here or there, right? Like their Mirage is a weakness.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They're going to have to play a lot of it because people are going to pick it against them. I still have concerns with the consistent level of output from somebody that's meant to be the main star of Stown. But if Yabby can take that over, because he looked great. Yabby looked very sharp. He looked very confident. So it's... It's...
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I don't have anything crazy goofy to start with today.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
positive signs for astralis that's my takeaway but that's it like this is a good result for them it's an important virus result for them it's a confident building confidence building result for them it's a lot of reps under pressure of official environments on land and then a stage so all in all this is a an event that's a step in the right direction for them but if i was having to like put them anywhere in world cs i wouldn't do that based off of these results
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think the general level of Counter-Strike at this event was pretty poor from a macro standpoint, to be completely honest. I don't think it was high tier...
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
team-based cs there's some high tier individual moments and some good rounds and some good executes but i think like overall from top to bottom it was lacking the class that in a that like a vitality or a spirit of vitality or navi right spirit obviously bring the biggest dick um and they just kind of you get get away on that quite a lot i think vitality and navi are more fleshed out from a tactical perspective yeah um but for astralis like
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It doesn't change them in my mind. They're still a team who is probably somewhere from top 20 to top 10. They're not... You know, I wouldn't have them breaking into the top 10 at the moment. Not consistently.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I've been on top of my things better this year.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
i uh i i don't love the double orbs i see coming out for them all the time but i understand it like for cadian he's playing some of these positions which i also think makes it hard for him to be able to lead the way that he used to lead because he was much more of a central piece as the opening game leader right so you would be able to see a lot more of the big picture from where he would be playing rounds and on that's on both sides of the map
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Now he has to either impart that trust on his other players or call from the dark or maybe not the dark, but like he's calling from the back lines for other people to be making the reactions. And he might not have all the info or as much info as required. So I think that is going to hurt them a little bit, but that's just the way it's going to have to be.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, cause that's where it really needs to be. Cause I've heard like really positive things about stairs communication. Um, but he also plays some, it depends on the map, right? But he also plays some extremity positions. Uh, so that's where, like, that's why I think the inferno is so good because Yavi's a lurking is really good. Like he always gets a good timing.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
He seems to understand when he shouldn't, shouldn't apply pressure, which keeps options open for them on a map like inferno. So you can see where they have a good understanding that maybe it's not a system. but the players know what's necessary from them in scenarios, which is helping them a lot, right? So that will come with time.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think they'd be a good Anubis team, bro, because Heroic always were a good Seesaw team, right? Without Vertigo in the pool, which was a heavy Seesaw map, you could have Anubis as a Seesaw map. Like imagine if you had like Yabby or Stown working your con position T side, one of them working mid, you can have Stair taking A main control.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Like you have some good pieces to be able to see so, but it's just, it's not in their map pool right now, but that is what it is. I don't want us to talk about Astralis for too long. I love how Richard dubbed it the hater bowl when we had like some of these teams playing it.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Cause like at the moment, the community just loves to hate at the moment, which is, you know, they're the viewer, they get to do what they like.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah. Well, Falcons, no matter what they do, we'll always be spending time there. Uh, I think this is it though. Right. And we were, we're talking about this. I know Duncan's always very vocal about this on the Twitter sphere.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
about Falcons and like saying like about them they're going to get a good team right and I think Janko you and I probably had a similar standpoint Jason maybe a little bit more on the other side just based off of
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
your opinion on nico's ability to win a major in in the next couple of years oh yes yeah but um i think you're seeing already like this roster is much better than the one that had last year and i'm really surprised with the with the dexter nico relationship yanko have you spoken to nico about about dexter much because i didn't think they'd get along but it seems like they do
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think also something with Dexter is the amount of time that he had out of Counter-Strike and then also before that probably top Counter-Strike 2. So there is that warming back.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, so he had a ways out. And it was from CS go to CS 2. So that is an impact on it as well. But his early stuff, he always looked out of position. And that can happen in the sense that Sometimes you're trying to do too much, right? Like, certain players, if their teammate is in a compromised position, won't sell them down the river.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They'll try and, like, make sure they can maintain their space or whatever. And in scenarios, you should sell them, right? And, like, maybe they won't die. Maybe you get the kills. But... Yeah, I think that when there's chaotic moments is when Degster gets to be his best.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And I also think in this team, if Kikson and Zonic are able to call around the fact that they have these two players who can contribute a lot in moments or even set themselves up, right? Obviously, they need the teammates for the nades and stuff. But if you can send Niko and Degster in to kind of get you that space, I think those are two players who are going to deliver on that.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It's not unfair. You're earning the money. You're out there. You're grinding hard, Janko. You're in the trenches.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
If Tessus can play like he does on the group stage games, That's really good, because Teslas has some of the best fucking spray I've seen. Like, it's so good. I love watching Teslas' aim.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Oh, my God. Yeah, he's got some good moments. Alex calling him Rene Borg after a casting moment I thought was pretty funny. So he now knows it's Madsen, so shout out to Teslas one time. What else is... I just think that the fun thing with that team is... They have players who can tussle confidence-wise with the big teams. They enjoy being on the stage.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They know when Counter-Strike gets a bit grittier what they can deliver. And that's what makes them exciting. I don't know when we see them get measured up against the top teams again at EPL and Lisbon if they're going to be able to continue to play to that degree because... For example, EPL is just studio. Lisbon, if they make it to the arena portion, excuse me, yeah, maybe.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But I think this is the type of team that would do better when the momentum base, where people are making more mistakes, I don't think they will fall to that same type of pressure. But I don't know. I'm not looking at this result and going, oh, they're a top team now. Like they always were going to be competitive with this roster. It's about how long will that take? But they're not there.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They're still not in there. They haven't broken into the hemisphere with the Spirit, with the Na'Vi, with the Vitality. They're still ways off that. But I just think they showed some good signs of promise, I guess.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Jason, do you have any good excuses when you leave? Are you like, hi, honey, do you do anything special?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And I think Niko should go back to being the B extremity guy, like on CT side, as opposed to the mid guy. Because Niko is like the goat rifler, right? But the way that mid goes down, it's so... Utility heavy. Yeah, but it's very utility heavy, and it comes down to timings a lot of the time. Like, did I account for their fourth fucking flash when I was pushing mid as a CT, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And I don't think Niko wants to take those type of fights. Whereas like if he just sat behind the red smoke and cleared the smoke and one guy was running out, he would win that fight most of the time. Whereas him having to play the coin toss fucking meta of, did my Orpah hit the elbow smoke? Did my Molly land? Are they edging? How many flashes are they going to use? Should I turn?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Are they harassing mid if I'm going for the run boost? Are they mollying heaven? It's like too many variables. Just let the guy go over to B extremity. If they come to fight him, they can have an AWP. That's fine. Niko will sit him on their ass. He can go aggressive down the B ramp, fight lane. And that's the position he played before in G2. Let Tessus take middle with Magus.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They can talk in Danish if they really want. And then it's all good. Take Niko out of that chaotic position. He doesn't need to be there. Just because players like Nertz and stuff and Exertion and JDC, they do it. They're still not Niko. You know Niko, though.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
This is why I wanted to make sure that we set expectations, and that's why I'm not being too high on any of the results for any of these teams. There was entertaining counter-strike, there was some good matches. There's obviously positive signs to win your first event with the full roster and Brolin in-game leading. That is a very good thing.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But is that going to confirm that this is a good move and maybe it doesn't end up being one? It's still too early to tell, but it is a great sign. I think the most exciting and interesting thing, maybe not the most exciting, let me reframe. I think the most interesting thing about Malz in Cluj was Jimmy outing himself as a gooner.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That, that was probably the most interesting thing for mouse for me at the event and they won the whole thing.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, it's when you're at events all the time, Jason, you can either do the boros method or you can do what most of them do and that's just chill. So, you know, there's, there's plenty of choices out there.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, and that's probably the safer way to do things, I'd say.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, but he's shown his taste in adult films.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Oh.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, no, it was an accidental retweet. Well, I'm assuming it was accidental. It was a retweet.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, I don't know if he's following the account. You don't have to be following the account to consume its stuff, Jason. That's fair. Would you like me to link you the account?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
uh yeah actually that'd be great okay i'll put the account uh in in here for you just there you go just for research purposes yeah just there you go it's right there um the that's the account it's funny too because he's not an avid tweeter either this is like a rare jimmy public he's an avid twitter user i'll tell you that much um but yeah i don't i don't know i don't have a huge amount to say about mouse which is strange because they won and it's not that i'm a hater
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I quite like, you know, I quite like mouse. I think they've got some, some fun people over there, but I don't know.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, we've been saying that for a while though, haven't we?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think what I, what I will say, I was just going to say, I think what I will say, because I said, I didn't have a lot to say, but when I just look at the complexion of the team, because what I'm doing right now is I'm looking at the positives and best case scenarios. So maybe we'll stay on that, that we can stay on that. I think if you look at,
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
The idea that you can have Exertion and Brolin as the two taking spaces, the riflers, and then you could have Jimmy and Sphinx coming in clutch, which they did, right? There was multiple occasions where, especially Sphinx had some really important clutches for them. That is a really nice recipe, right? As long as they stay reliable and they stay...
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
on top of the game to continue to bring that new ideas and everything, because Torji, what you pointed out, Jason, I think that he plays good high level counter-strike in pressure situations. Like he's always going for his peaks, right? Like he can find impact. It's pretty rare that we see him disappear,
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So it's, yeah, it's if those other parts of the puzzle can function as they should, which on a first going, they can, that's going to be great. And I think that Maus, even with Shui, played their best Counter-Strike when it was confidence-based CS, when they were just running at people and taking jewels. Did it come back to bite them in the ass in certain scenarios? Yes.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But when they were unleashing their individuals through structure, right? We still have a round opener. We still know what everyone's throwing. We still have our timings. But when they were playing confidence CS, I think that's when they were playing some of their better CS. So yeah,
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
You need to build on this for the major, essentially, and thinking if you have another, we're end of February now, so you have March, April, May, you have three more months to build out the base of the team. So then the question you have to ask yourself is, will there be enough depth from that base going into the major for them to be a title contender? That's what we have to find out.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I don't know at what point we can really check that. Maybe it would have to be after something like Melbourne.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I understand what you're saying. I think that's fair. I guess when I look at what is Brolin going to be able to bring from the in-game leader perspective is more when they're in a tough tactical battle against an Apex or a Karrigan and the adjustments are needing to be made because coming up with the moves that they have is something that I guess they're going to do, like most teams do,
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
a bit more by committee, right? Like, oh yeah, you know, I'm this player. I would like, we could try this or we could do this. And then you build that out into your game plan and your defaults because we have a default, but in the default, we have different variations of how we're gonna take the space and who's gonna do what for who, et cetera, et cetera.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
it's when it gets down to the nuance of the actual like call, oh shit, they've done this. Like is Cyclone with three tactical timeouts in a map gonna be able to make those adjustments for them? Or is Brolin gonna be able to bring that himself? And yeah, I see what you're saying though, in terms of Shuey bringing the bigger picture and everything. But it's hard to measure that, isn't it?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Uh, yeah. Only fans and pornography really, uh, everyone's favorite topics. I, this, how are you getting so much traction in 2020? I guess it makes sense. We had a woman who spoke about spitting on a dick and that was top of the world for a little while there, the hot tour girl.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, it really is.
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Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Isn't that the one where the guy had that line as well? Like, fuck. Because on that show, there was like, you asked a player a question and he's like, no one, bitch.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, yeah, you're not allowed to say that. You're the number one Nico Glazer, so you need to reside your opinion. Sit this one out. but I can have an opinion. I think that the way that HLTV do their, I do podcasts. Jason, you're the only one who could have an opinion here.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
This is what I told ESL to do with the DHL MVP. And I think I had this discussion on HLTV confirmed. I said what they should make the DHL MVP is just for the final. Because HLTV have the event MVP covered. Just do the major grand final MVP. And you can go, well, yeah, but it's just one. Yeah, but you give the award more validity by doing that.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
oh yeah that's died out pretty quick though one crypto scam and it all comes crumbling down just one rug pull and that'll be it that fucking spitting on a dick empire that she built up it's all come crumbling down which we don't even know if she really did she just had the comment so yeah she just made a funny comment it's cool what can we do about it yeah all right let's get in the counter stretch and we're floundering today we got nothing there's no there's no no fun was had
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And it's like, I can already know what the people in sales are going to say. Yeah, but what about our activations and other segments? I can solve that for you, lads. Like, don't worry about it. I can fix that too.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
We can still get the people vote. And then the award, like when a player gets it or whatever, it'll be just based off of their performance in the final. And you won't have to worry about bringing in anything to do with anything else. And the final is actually the most important game. Wow, who would have thought? So, you know, there's grounds for it too. But yeah, I think Xertion had a great final.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Janko brought it up before. It's really good for his confidence and hopefully we can get that from him.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
How do you fix that, you reckon? Is it just reps? Like, or you think it's a mentality thing? Like, and how do they... If it is a mentality thing, how do you fix it?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I feel it's going to be mainly comfort, though.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, I haven't come in on a high. Yesterday, I traveled early, so I didn't get much sleep. So I had a nap throughout the day, and then I stayed up late playing Face It. And then I've woken up today, and I've gone, all right, well, I have to do seven loads of laundry because I'm going to leave in a day and a half's time. So it's just, there's a lot of stuff going on.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah. I hope it is just a reps thing, right? Because they have good players. I really like watching 9-10 AWP. I think it's really fun. I think Senzu, he is the one that tends to have the dive. But at the same time, I agree with Yanko in the sentiment of the way that they play the game. It can be volatile, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
If you're not getting away with those moves, then you're not getting away with anything. Yeah. Yeah, they are going to develop. They've already developed quite quickly, right? So now that if they are breaking in every second or third event to playoffs and playing arena games, great. They can get those reps.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And then eventually when they do have their break off breakthrough in the arenas, because it's kind of like mouse, remember, they would always suck in the arenas. They'd be good in groups, but they'd suck in arenas.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Because I know it's a big question. But... I think you can see that for them.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It's not really recharging my batteries. It's just fucking hoping it doesn't rain. That's essentially life at the moment.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I know we're like, you know, you said it's one player and it's more significant, everything like that. But it's just, it feels like it, It's so big of a change that unless they're all, but it's classic FaZe. I was going to say, unless they're all playing, it's the same thing. Same thing always with FaZe.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Like I don't, the reason I say, I don't think it's going to work is I just feel like there's, there's so many things like even Rain doesn't have outside on Nuke anymore.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
He made another sacrifice and it's like, and then he's doing an interview and he's asked the question by James and he's like, yeah, I'm liking the challenge. Well, you probably are. You've been playing Counter-Strike forever, Ray, and it's probably nice to not have to play the same position.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Was it six years ago? Five years ago?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I'd like to see them start banning Nuke or Inferno and playing Train.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, no, because didn't we talk about it last time? And the angle that I was saying was if they're going to get all the positions they want, those two, Frozen and Alige, then they're the ones who have to deliver. We're not looking to Rain. We're obviously not looking to Kerrigan.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, like you got to pack, just pack laundry as well. And then I'm packing.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I did, but then he topped the stats. To be fair, they played Saw twice, so I don't know how much you give a fuck about them beating a dead team. Yeah, I don't know. I just have a feeling that it's not going to work in the long run.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I'm saying not going to work in the long run, but I guess I'd have to set a bar of what that means. So I guess consistently a top five team in the world. Okay.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, I'm actually maybe, okay. So at the moment, Spirit Vitality Na'Vi, right? Then who's going to fill the spots after that? It's a huge open conversation right now between a lot of names. How quick can Eternal Fire and Mongols develop to the point where they can play well in arenas? That's a conversation for those two because they play good counter-strike. They have different distinct styles.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They have strong players. They're in their own little bucket. G2, they have strong pieces, but to get things online and the learning curve for players like Malbs, Modesty, and HeavyGod now having to pick up the mantle of what Niko's left and being the 2IC, but mainly the main, probably the main voice in terms of helping to the in-game leader of how the rounds are going to flow.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That now has to get pieced together. So where do we place G2? I don't know. That's a fucking mystery right now. Malbs have just won their first event with Spinks in the roster and Brolet in-game leading. Astralis are making steps, but they're still outside of that conversation. Falcons have just had a really good event run. They've showed the potential kicks and good calling.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Some good play from Niko, Dexter, and Teses, and Magisk as well, right? Okay, so now they're starting to bring their name in. Liquid have good potential, but haven't shown it. Last year, in the second half, they were able to just be gatekeeping that top like 10 to 12 kind of position, 8 to 12 maybe, but never were able to break through against any of the big dog teams.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
They couldn't be any of the big names other than Na'Vi that was on like debut in the exhibition matches from Blast. And then... Outside of that, you've got other teams that might be able to get their shit together too. Like Pain is probably in a similar conversation of Astralis, but lacking the player experience, but in terms of like making steps, little steps, little steps.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Then you've got VP who is like bipolar as me on any given Sunday. So who the fuck knows what's happening with that team. But again, really strong base of players and maybe they just need a confident building win for it to click. I don't know about Furia. Yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Which is why it's great that the fucking season finishes in the major. And everything that happens throughout the season builds into the major. It all makes sense.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Oh, thank God. Did we not talk about... We didn't talk about lots of teams.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, where are they in the VRS right now? They are... Fit 45th. Yes. It's, it's over until they go in and less valve loophole. Yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
No, it can happen again. It's just, it was going to always work itself out like this unless they had results.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
so do you think looking back was good that they played these tournaments or should have turned it down i think from a viewership perspective it was pretty good right like it brought eyeballs but i think the positive that we felt early with their result in was it bounty online And then the Furia game on LAN with Bubble standing in, like the positives from there are probably negated, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I wonder what happens if I die, right? Like I have nothing. So, well, no, I have things, but I have nothing set up. So if I die, what happens to my stuff?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Probably equals itself out with the results that they then showed from that point onwards with their full roster, because the caliber of teams that they were losing to were worse than the caliber of teams that they had their more notable results against?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's the worst thing that could have happened to them.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
You know what I mean? Over two maps, they won seven rounds against Complexity. They won seven rounds against MIBR. They won nine rounds against Imperial, and that's over six maps of play.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
23, they won an average of 3.8 rounds per map over six maps at Cluj.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But that's the thing though, Janko, because they're going to go and get LAN wins if they win Impact again, they get LAN wins there and they get prize money. So I don't know what the prize money is there, but it will definitely spike them back up the rankings. In my opinion, the best possible thing that can happen of all of this is Valve see that mechanism and understand that that mechanism
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
doesn't work as it is intended to and they need to also understand that that mechanism can be abused. I could run a LAN event in Australia and I could put up a crazy prize money and I could create a format that has like a lot of LAN games and I could only invite because I could make it regional and I can be tier one and I can only invite people from the region and you could artificially
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's true. That's true.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
put a team further in the rankings. That needs to be nipped in the bud. Like imagine a country that has a lot of wealth that wanted to take advantage of that loophole, right? That could happen. There's no reason that that couldn't happen. So for me, it's not about women's Counter-Strike or anything along those lines.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It's about something that is functioning within the VRS that in my opinion, shouldn't exist. It's got nothing to do with the gender or anything along those lines. I just don't think that the whole point of the VRS and the system that's been implemented for 2025 is meant to be that the circuit is merit-based.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Exactly. And I feel like some of these things in place are still going to be able to serve that if people want to be malicious about it. And if it's going to be like how Valve look at other things in the game,
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Which would be my parents.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
which is if it gets abused then they'll fix it well then we're going to have to wait for somebody from the Middle East to put up a million dollar tournament and only invite teams from the Middle East or only invite teams from that one country and then see what type of impact that has on the rankings which is Hopefully not a real possibility. Well, it is a real possibility.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Hopefully it's not a reality.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
If we do it all in 2025, that's probably better, isn't it?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think the best thing that – Women's players playing.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Okay, that's good that eventually get it eventually that eventually get it. That's great. All right, well, where do we want to start with today's conversations, lads, we can wrap up kluge, we got probably coming up, there's been some not so interesting stuff in the news, really, there's some more valve stuff with the ranking model. Boros was signed to GG Howe.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Isn't that kind of what we'd want anyway, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, well, no, I don't either. I think the only problem is, you know, they're having to deal with young men. That could be one of the only, and that's one of the problems that they come into with it, whether it's, you know, matchmaking or face it or whatever. Because the way that, I don't want to say it's, I'm not trying to say it's an okay thing. It's a very bad thing, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But that's one of the biggest obstacles that they come up against, which is terrible. But I agree that that's the way that I expect things to go too. And that's the best because, Again, Counter-Strike, and the reason that Counter-Strike exists in the way it has for so long is because the game has always felt like it's been merit-based, right?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It's been like, if you're good enough, then you can play. And that's really like, that's why... You know, you get underdog stories, which are exciting. The Mongols is the best example of that in recent history and that people get behind those. But overall, if you're good enough, then you can play. And that's what I think should be the case anyway. So we'll see how that evolves.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But yeah, I don't think, I think there were positives to the whole thing and there were negatives to the whole thing and they essentially equal each other out in the long run. But yeah. But yeah. But yeah, we didn't want to do any more format chat, did we? I'll save this when I do my other podcast in a couple of hours time.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
No, it's fine. Because I'll probably try and bounce some things off Striker who should have answers. Whereas right now, I'm trying to piece things together myself. Yeah, I'm just looking at the incentives that ESL have for the rev share and kind of how that works for teams. Because it's the opt-in, right? Like teams have to, you can, and people, everyone can go and find it.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
There's a full agreement, which teams are being presented ahead of the tournament participation can be found here. And people can go and find that. Like you can literally, it's a whole Google drive document that tells you it's only four pages long, which is, which is pretty good. And it shows you how much club reward money there is to be split between teams and everything along those lines.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Can we talk about EPL?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Okay, so first thing, I guess for all the viewers who've been tuning into EPL for the last couple of seasons, the long and the short of this, I don't really want to get into the weeds of it, but if anybody has been paying attention, and we were speaking about this when EPL was in a rough spot before we got largely involved.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah. And we did a lot of talking about this on Talking Canada. So if you're a newer viewer, maybe you missed that. If you're an older viewer, hopefully you remember it. Coming up with ideas and we were talking a lot on this show about like what level of input we were having. That level of input is being dramatically scaled back. Yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
going into this season and all foreseeable seasons as it currently stands. So that is basically something that we talk to ESL about because it's when you would do an EPL season for five weeks or three weeks or now it's gonna be two and a half and you're doing a lot of extra things that wouldn't normally be within your your roles can become quite taxing.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And we were very happy to feel more involved within the show. And we feel that we put on a fun event because the tournament format and all that stuff was probably not the most exciting team-wise. We tried to talk to ESL and come to some type of agreement of how we could continue to do that going forward.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I know Janko was really excited about that one.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But I think we can just say that we didn't come to an agreement of how we could continue doing that going forward. So we will continue to have a similar vibe for EPO, like with the TriCast and everything along those lines.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's what everybody's used to. But I would say in terms of as many pieces of content or skits or live segments or that type of stuff, that is going to be either not produced by us. We'll still probably be involved in them. But a lot of the ideas will just be rehashed things that we came out with in the past. We will not be contributing on the same level that we have previously.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So I just wanted to kind of get that out there because I already saw like a HLTV thread today with someone saying they were looking forward to, uh, they were looking forward to EPO and listing, you know, some of the reasons and.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yes, the show will probably still hopefully be fun because we're going to go and do our best job that we can, but just know that we're not going to be as involved as we previously have been. So yeah, that's the most political way to talk about this, isn't it?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I thought it's important to do that because first of all, if people are like, why aren't they doing these things? And they know that we've been heavily involved in the past, then they're going to think that we're being lazy cunts, but that's not the case.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
We wanted to contribute more across all of ESL's products to be completely honest with everybody playing at home, but we can't come to an agreement with ESL.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Oh, the more recent one?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Jason they weren't our ideas another coincidence we just we just did them we just said them out loud first and executed them they weren't our ideas oh my god so many coincidences Jason shut up
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Anyway, sorry, Yanko. Keep going.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's a great skit. I can't believe that didn't end up on the YouTube.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Maybe copyright, because it's... No, no, no.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I'm holding it in. I'm holding it in. I'm holding it all the way in. I'm pressing it down deep into the darkness where the rest of it lives.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
No, no, no, no, no. I do like the, the seating system that we're going for. I don't know if everybody calls that.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Exactly. Exactly that, Jason O'Toole. Let me find the self-seating so that we can have a quick convo. Let's have a conversation about that. I'll put it in the chat here. Here it is. Bang, just under Jimmy's Guna link. So yeah. Can you guys, you're going to have to copy and paste that.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Okay, so I'll read it out like, I'll go through what the team seeding had us with, and then we can talk about some of the biggest outliers. We're gonna do it on the show as well, I imagine. Eternal Fire, Pain, 3D Max, Furia, Gamer Legion, Heroic, MIBR, FlyQuest, that's one to eight for stage one. Yeah, and then after that goes M80, Namiga, Saw, NRG, LinVision, Tyloo, HouseBets, and Mindfreak.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
The last two if people aren't too familiar with those names are both Aussie teams. And it's quite similar with the VRS. So the VRS at that point would have had Housepets, Mindfreak, Tyloo, Linvision, NRG, all in that order as the bottom five teams, which actually matches up with what the team seating is. Then M80 have actually been seated lower than Namiga and SOAR.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think it wasn't too long ago. It wasn't too long. And also what's going to happen is after we have all of these teams go from stage one and qualify for stage two to join the bigger names, like the liquids, the vitalities, everybody bar phase, essentially, uh, when they will do this again. So the next batch of 16 teams will do the team seating again.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And we will have some content around that on the, on the show, um, to talk about, you know, why these choices were made and everything along those lines. So I think, yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But I think it'll be more interesting in the second week when we actually know, yeah. When we actually know, like, because the bigger teams seeding one another will tell us more about like, you know, how they feel against one another for practice and everything. Whereas a lot of these teams here, we're looking at some, some lower field teams.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
So we're not hugely like, honestly, like NRG and stuff or the house bets or mind freak. There's very low expectations of those teams. So, see them get seated low it's like yeah okay they probably should be seated low i think um I like the fact that this is in play as a seeding system, as opposed to using the seeding system from the VRS.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Because the VRS, like Yanka, I think you said there was like, you used the term lag. And I think that that will play into the VRS. And it also, as we discussed, is not like a HLTV ranking to be from like one to 16 or one to whatever. It's more like just to group the best teams in the sections that they should be grouped, or at least that's my opinion. my take on what the VRS is meant to be.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Whereas this, can kind of be more accurate on what the temperature check is from all of the teams. So I think it's cool. We've used it before. Was it 2019 was the major they used it at last time?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah. So it's best of three Swiss, two rounds of that stage one, stage two, and then an 18 playoff bracket for the playoffs, which is nice to see.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's true. That is true. A million dollars all up because of the club share.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Really?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
For what? To put him to sleep.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, it's been working. They qualified for Dallas, didn't they?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
As Marvin Hagler once said, Jason, it's tough to get out of bed. Oh, wait. It's tough to get out of bed to do road work at 5 a.m. when you've been sleeping in silk pajamas. And I'm going to say that Breeze, with that EG money, has been sleeping in silk pajamas for a very long time. So not seeing him return to the form necessary isn't too surprising, to be completely honest.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Well, he doesn't need to get vaccinated because he's already had Brovid-19, so...
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
You want to end it there?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
You do want a Friday night maybe and bring in somebody who's there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe Harry or... Who else?
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
The talent announcement is not it, Jason. You're spoiling it all. We'll do it. We'll spoil it all for everybody. It's going to be the three of us. It's going to be Machine. It's going to be Henry G. It's going to be Harry and Hugo. It's going to be Joshua Steel, Nissan. And then it's going to be Freya and Trace. That's going to be the 10 of us.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And then I'll save the last one because that one people might actually be interested in, whereas the rest of us people are probably not so interested.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
She'd hop on for sure.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I reckon Hugo would be up there and unlikely to join.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Okay, so you included us in the character count. I like that. Well, that's true. We do have to do this every week.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Because I said the New Year's resolution was we were going to be sponsored in 2025. But we've got 10 months left. We've continued to ignore the same email from the same dodgy website for a year and a half now. So guys, we're going to keep ignoring it. But just remember, everybody else is getting richer.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
Yeah, okay. Well, now let's do a longer timeline, Jason. Let's say by 2028. 2028, if we're not sponsored. Because I reckon we can ride it out until then. That's only another three more years.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
That's true. If we didn't get a real sponsor after five years of doing an episode almost every week, I think at that point, You gotta do something.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I think normally with the league, so if I'm just thinking about it, right, because what you're saying is sensible, but I think for lower, and I guess if we're talking tier three, tier two type of stuff, then this is the angle I'm coming at it from. This is not necessarily fully salaried professionals, maybe more like semi-professionals would probably be a better angle to go.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And then if those semi-professionals are needing to
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
uh find income to to live and then also still get to play because it's just playing from counter straight they can't make enough money uh the potential for you to be able to reschedule matches and in a lengthier league the days are not going to be as as as tight right so if we take away the ability to have any leagues this is just one thing i'm thinking right now is maybe it'll be hard for people to play
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
in general because we only usually, or at least I just speak for myself, I'm only usually looking at things from the mega elite or the very top, right? And there's never any time constraints or problems with those guys because this is their job, they do it full time, they get paid very well. So worries about like being in an event or doing a week long event.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But if you're someone who's studying or if you're someone who is working a part-time job as well as like trying to pursue Counter-Strike semi-professionally, then I think having the flexibility of a league up until the point of like a finals or whatever is actually... pretty good for those type of people.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
I'm just trying to get in touch with the common man, Jason. And I don't know if I, I was just trying to think.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But couldn't the thing be... Because I understand the reason they're not picking a hard time to do this and they're making sure that events have come to their conclusions. If you picked a hard time in Europe, then that hard time, there'd probably be matches going on in Asia or there'd be matches going on in America, right? If they picked a hard cutoff. The whole thing was...
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It didn't make sense that in the middle of a day of matches, that there would be a cutoff point that would affect the rankings so drastically that then that would impact who got invited to what tournament. Couldn't they just have something for like leagues? So, you know, it's a different thing.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
But if it is a league that's running over a longer period of time, couldn't you have something that does weigh in for the results at that point after that? because we're talking at the low end. We're talking at the low end of these scenes. We're not talking at the high end.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
And I feel like if we just focus everything only to the top end, then we're going to cause ourselves some issues because we need to make sure that the tier two and tier three scenes still have possibility. I think there was something that Nomad tweeted in reply to Stryker. That's Nomad from HLTV.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
He tweeted in reply to Stryker saying, should you like HLTV ranking, consider the matches, but not the achievement part of it until the event finishes. If no changes are made, long running leagues just have to go away, I guess. So the second part is him just saying that if Valve are sticking with what they've come up with, then it's pointing in the direction of what you're saying.
Talking Counter
Episode 126: PGL Cluj Playoff results, PGL's Field of Dreams and the CS ecosystem
It looked like you were playing golf on the ice. Is that correct?